Jon Snow: He Knows Nothing

[glowbug]

32 minutes ago, MadameKillerB said:

Oh I get that. Totally. However, acting? Isn't that what it's about?

Agreed. I think part of it is the fact that neither of them are the best actors in the universe, but even the best actors can’t always fake it. I’ve seen too many good actors who break up with the actor who plays their love interest on the show and the chemistry is just gone between the characters. 

I don’t believe chemistry is something you have or you don’t. For one thing, chemistry is very subjective so reasonable people can disagree over whether two actors have chemistry or not. And though I find the chemistry between Jon and Dany lacking, Kit and Emilia have had a lot of chemistry together offscreen in the past so I think they could have chemistry together onscreen if they could get over their awkwardness, especially Kit. 

[Bryce Lynch]

If Jon didn't know Sansa the snake would break her vow and use his secret to undermine Daenerys, and by extension, Jon,  he truly does know nothing.  

[Affogato]

On 10/30/2018 at 3:18 PM, Smad said:

Still doesn't explain anything. Dragon blood seems to mean immunity to fire. If all Targs have dragon blood then all of them are immune to it the same way Dany is. That would mean her brother and Jon as well. Neither of those guys are immune to fire however, so no dragon blood.

Oi. In summerhall, Aemon mentions it, a spell was cast to create a targ who could bring back the dragons. Aemon thought it was Rhaegar but then thinks it is Dany. He wants to see her. He is talking to sam. I think this hppens in both the books and the show. The spell caster is Egg. 

This is probably what allows her to be the unburnt.

This is different than the characteristic that allows some, but not all, members of some bloodlines to ride dragons. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Affogato

[Affogato]

14 hours ago, Affogato said:

Oi. In summerhall, Aemon mentions it, a spell was cast to create a targ who could bring back the dragons. Aemon thought it was Rhaegar but then thinks it is Dany. He wants to see her. He is talking to sam. I think this hppens in both the books and the show. The spell caster is Egg. 

This is probably what allows her to be the unburnt.

This is different than the characteristic that allows some, but not all, members of some bloodlines to ride dragons. 

I messed this up. 

When Egg was king he triedti hatch three dragons eggs at summerhall. There was a horrible fire. He was killed along with others including his eldest son, Duncan This led to Aerys becoming king. Whoops.  Rhagar was born there during the disaster and was fascinated by the circumstances of his birth in Salt and smoke. He would go to the ruins to hang out. This is why he thinks he is the azor ahai. 

This is maybe not general knowledge but Aemon the maester is Eggs brother so he knows of it and may h e helped with the spell  

So this fiasco may be responsible for Dany being able to work the magic to cause the eggs to hatch and for rhaegal making sure he had Jon to fulfill the prophecy. 

[izabella]

Jon bothers me a lot, and most of it is because he is Undead Man Walking.  What does that mean?  I have no idea.  Because the show seems to have dropped the magic except for the dragons at this point.  But, Undead!  He should be like Beric - he can die-die after he has served his purpose, whatever that is. 

[Nashville]

3 minutes ago, izabella said:

Jon bothers me a lot, and most of it is because he is Undead Man Walking.  What does that mean?  I have no idea.  Because the show seems to have dropped the magic except for the dragons at this point.  But, Undead!  He should be like Beric - he can die-die after he has served his purpose, whatever that is. 

Considering Melisandre has already flaked away, I doubt Jon has a helluva lot of choice in the matter.

[Constantinople]

Jon Snow

He abandoned his girlfriend

He abandoned his dog

He'll abandon you

This ad paid for by the Daenerys for the Iron Throne committee

[Lemuria]

I also posted this in the ep (8.04) thread but thought I'd put it here as well.  It's an interesting look at why Jon decided to reveal that he's Targaryen:  Jon's Choice to become Aegon

[Constantinople]

11 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

I also posted this in the ep (8.04) thread but thought I'd put it here as well.  It's an interesting look at why Jon decided to reveal that he's Targaryen:  Jon's Choice to become Aegon

Is there a tl;dr version?

It's a 20 minute video, and he hasn't said jack after 5 minutes

[Lemuria]

Sorry, I think that's the only one!  (I hate to promise it gets better, in case you still don't like it! 😄😉)

[jeansheridan]

I see so much Ned in Jon. Ned probably felt the same way after Robert and Tywin sacked King's Landing ( which is still only about 23 years ago so older people do remember). Helpless and disgusted. 

I actually think Jon will survive but by doing what Ned did and disappear to the North. He'll withdraw fully from the scene. Also like his grand uncle did really. We have a recent example of a Targ who avoided his fate (and maybe helped cause all of this). 

I still like Jon and I think his relative ineffectiveness in the last two eps will be rectified in the next ep. Not with flighting. I think he will finally talk plainly to Dany and try to withdraw. Don't know if she will allow it. But I can't help thinking of how the true North does love him. And all those direwolves, waiting. I see one more epic moment for him. 

[ulkis]

7 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

We have a recent example of a Targ who avoided his fate (and maybe helped cause all of this). 

Which Targ was this?

[ShellsandCheese]

10 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Which Targ was this?

Maester Aemon in the show. Because it cannot be said enough, not all Targaryen's go mad. The number of 'mad' Targs is actually decidedly lower than the number of non-mad ones. 

It must be observed that of the Targaryen kings who ruled Westeros for almost 300 years, only Aerys could be considered truly mad. Several princes and bastards of Targaryen blood committed insane acts for one reason or another, and oftentimes it was not "pure madness" but acts born of desperation or arrogance that lead to further tragedies as the tragedy at Summerhall. There is magical power in the blood of old Valyria and this may create a certain instability in a Targaryen's personality, but it could also be that this is due to the fact that the Targaryens have forgotten how to control it when magic waned from the world and dragons disappeared. (From the Fire and Ice Wiki, a summation of things discussed throughout the books)

Edited May 13, 2019 by ShellsandCheese

[jeansheridan]

10 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Maester Aemon in the show. Because

He didn't want to be king so took the black to reassure his brother of his true intentions. But he might have made a fine, sane king. 

[Hoo]

7 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

I see so much Ned in Jon.. 

I don't.  Ned told a lie to his wife to protect a child.  

Jon would never do that.  Jon is an idiot.

[Umbelina]

Ned would have told Jon, he was about to tell Jon, but he lost his head.

Jon would lie to protect a child, just not himself.

[Lady S.]

On 5/13/2019 at 7:21 PM, Umbelina said:

Ned would have told Jon, he was about to tell Jon, but he lost his head.

Jon would lie to protect a child, just not himself.

Also, Jon has known his sisters all their lives, while Ned and Cat were merely acquaintances forced by circumstance to get married and have a son at the time that he lied to her about Jon. Sansa's mumbled oath was obviously suspect but at that I think it'd be hard to tell one sister and not the other and her blabbing to Tyrion is really on her alone.

[jeansheridan]

Again if the show had more time to breathe, I would think Varys already strongly suspected Jon's heritage. Varys knew Rhaegar, probably quite well. He may have know Aemon too although I think Varys shows up in Westeros during the Mad King's reign. So Varys just needed confirmation. 

I still feel like Jon telling the truth will ultimately set him free. That's the sweet in the bitter. He will finally make informed decisions based on the truth. It's a different hero's journey, more internal than external. Dany is dealing with big issues. Jon needs to figure out his place in the world now that he is no longer fighting the Night King. 

[PatsyandEddie]

I’m quite comfortable sitting at my table of one as a huge fan of Jon in both show and books. 

Jon’s brooding nature seems natural to me considering how he was raised. Family but not quite, always a symbol of Ned’s infidelity. Cat hated him and wanted him gone which Ned refused to do without real explanation. That childhood set his character , watching his honourable father, engaging with his siblings but always under the eye of a woman who openly despised him. 

To keep this short, I agree with jeansheridan that the truth has freed him. I want him to survive and discover who he is/wants to be. 

I don’t agree that Kit is a weak actor. IMO, he played Jon to perfection, acting with his eyes when there wasn’t dialogue. I also have to praise him for being able to play such a physical role. Some of this cast have done physically gruelling scenes which blew my mind.

Kudos to all. 

[Affogato]

On 5/10/2019 at 12:37 PM, Lemuria said:

I also posted this in the ep (8.04) thread but thought I'd put it here as well.  It's an interesting look at why Jon decided to reveal that he's Targaryen:  Jon's Choice to become Aegon

I think he did this so Dany and later his sisters wouldn’t learn from someone else. He probably wishes Ned had told him. 

[Tippi]

On 5/18/2019 at 11:37 AM, PatsyandEddie said:

I’m quite comfortable sitting at my table of one as a huge fan of Jon in both show and books. 

Jon’s brooding nature seems natural to me considering how he was raised. Family but not quite, always a symbol of Ned’s infidelity. Cat hated him and wanted him gone which Ned refused to do without real explanation. That childhood set his character , watching his honourable father, engaging with his siblings but always under the eye of a woman who openly despised him. 

To keep this short, I agree with jeansheridan that the truth has freed him. I want him to survive and discover who he is/wants to be. 

I don’t agree that Kit is a weak actor. IMO, he played Jon to perfection, acting with his eyes when there wasn’t dialogue. I also have to praise him for being able to play such a physical role. Some of this cast have done physically gruelling scenes which blew my mind.

Kudos to all. 

Patsy and Eddie, I'll sit at that table too.  Fantasy is not my genre and I had never heard of GOT before the first episode.  I  was immediately drawn in by the story of the bastard son with the coal black hair,  who so obviously loved his family, and where the path of the show would take him.  (I guessed from that first episode that he was the son of Rhaegar+Lyanna.)  I thought Kit has always brought a welcome element of warmth in this bleak story to his scenes, especially with Sophie and Maisie.  Jon did not know he was a prince, but his inherent nobility shone through. 

I have to say, IMO one thing that was done right on this show was the casting.  I really thought every one of the actors nailed their roles and gave it their all.

[Umbelina]

[Constantinople]

Queenslayer

[slf]

No small part of why Jon was named King in the North was his being Ned Stark's son. I wonder if the lords would have chosen him had they known he was Rhaegar's son (since the North believed Lyanna was kidnapped and raped). But more importantly, I wonder how his true lineage affects his actions as King. Would he be considered illegitimate, as Joffrey and Tommen would have been? 

[Otherkate]

On 5/18/2019 at 11:37 AM, PatsyandEddie said:

I’m quite comfortable sitting at my table of one as a huge fan of Jon in both show and books. 

Jon’s brooding nature seems natural to me considering how he was raised. Family but not quite, always a symbol of Ned’s infidelity. Cat hated him and wanted him gone which Ned refused to do without real explanation. That childhood set his character , watching his honourable father, engaging with his siblings but always under the eye of a woman who openly despised him. 

To keep this short, I agree with jeansheridan that the truth has freed him. I want him to survive and discover who he is/wants to be. 

I don’t agree that Kit is a weak actor. IMO, he played Jon to perfection, acting with his eyes when there wasn’t dialogue. I also have to praise him for being able to play such a physical role. Some of this cast have done physically gruelling scenes which blew my mind.

Kudos to all. 

Make room at your table for me.

[rmontro]

According to D&D, Jon Snow was made Lord Commander of the Night Watch again, and is going to spend the rest of his life ranging the North looking for possible threats to the Wildlings (and others).  It strikes me that if Jon is going to spend all his time ranging, it doesn't really make sense to make him Lord Commander, does it?  Wouldn't they like someone closer to home (Castle Black)?

[Constantinople]

20 hours ago, rmontro said:

According to D&D, Jon Snow was made Lord Commander of the Night Watch again

Do you know where they said that?

I ask because there wasn't an Inside the Episode for the final episode.

It might have been mentioned in The Last Watch episode and I missed it (I didn't pay full attention).

[rmontro]

4 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Do you know where they said that?

I don't recall it being in The Last Watch.  I believe I read it on one of the subforums here, they claimed it came from a D&D interview.  Sorry I don't have a link, wish I did.  So I don't know how reliable it is.  I'm not even aware of a D&D interview since the finale, I thought they were in hiding from angry fans.  

I've seen a lot of different thoughts about what's going on with Jon Snow at the end, and it appears to be all conjecture.  The fact that it is so unclear is just one more problem to lay at the feet of this bad ending.