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In the middle of my rewatch and currently in the middle of season 6. I gotta say, the writers really over estimate the audience's investment in Jamie as a character. He's just so annoying and the worst type of child character; precocious and 'wise'. I hate how all the adults treat him like he is a genius. I find myself skipping over his scenes and Nathan and Haley scenes as a result

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6 hours ago, ozzers said:

In the middle of my rewatch and currently in the middle of season 6. I gotta say, the writers really over estimate the audience's investment in Jamie as a character. He's just so annoying and the worst type of child character; precocious and 'wise'. I hate how all the adults treat him like he is a genius. I find myself skipping over his scenes and Nathan and Haley scenes as a result

Why did they create the character of Jaime in the first place?

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Finally getting started. A show about brothers and basketball. 
 

For the record- Dan reminds me of my own father. This is going to be too juicy. 
 

Dan’s an asshole. Lucas has the right to play fucking basketball if he wants. You don’t own the team Dan!

Paul Johnson plays swarmy pretty well- I remember him from his days on 90210 as John Sears. 

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Dan and Nathan are such assholes. Dan more so because he’s the fucking adult.

I find it amazing that he feels because he’s not interested in parenting Lucas, that means Lucas shouldn’t exist and shouldn’t play basketball- BASKETBALL. If Nathan was so damn good what was the threat about? He’s a narcissist- Nathan only exists to serve his own failed dreams. 
 

Paul Johnson is doing an excellent job in the role though- he’s so swarmy and punchable. 

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So I’m season 1 episode 16- Lucas was such an ass to Brooke (I’m so glad she stuck up for herself). Just because she wasn’t “deep” and “tortured” like Peyton doesn’t mean he had the right to treat her like crap. For the record I do like Peyton (and I like how she realized her friendship with Brooke was more important than wishy washy Lucas), but she’s not more deserving of respect and basic human decency than Brooke. 
 

Lucas had no business getting with her when he knew how much he liked Peyton, and they were BFFs. 
 

Dan is an ass. 
 

How is there are there only two black families in this entire town ?

 

Again Dan is an ass. Did Deb just marry him because she was pregnant? I wonder if he was ever nice to her. 
 

I got a message from my college friend who’s also rewatching this- and she said that maybe they intended to have Brooke/Lucas be endgame but Sophia and Chad divorced.....I could see that. 

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I cannot figure out the timeline of when Chad and Sophia were IRL together and when they divorced and how this overlaps with the show. I've watched this show through several times and I don't notice a difference in how they relate to each other onscreen, but I would like to know what the storyline was while they were divorcing. 

One thing I have noticed throughout this show is that Lucas is really not a likeable character. I know we are supposed to love him, but he made some really bad decisions regarding relationships, like you said. I know he is a high school boy and they do stupid things, but this was a WB/CW show and we are all supposed to be in love with the main character. As for why there are only two black families in this whole town...this was a teen soap in the early 2000s. It's a miracle there were two.

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15 hours ago, sara416 said:

I cannot figure out the timeline of when Chad and Sophia were IRL together and when they divorced and how this overlaps with the show. I've watched this show through several times and I don't notice a difference in how they relate to each other onscreen, but I would like to know what the storyline was while they were divorcing. 

One thing I have noticed throughout this show is that Lucas is really not a likeable character. I know we are supposed to love him, but he made some really bad decisions regarding relationships, like you said. I know he is a high school boy and they do stupid things, but this was a WB/CW show and we are all supposed to be in love with the main character. As for why there are only two black families in this whole town...this was a teen soap in the early 2000s. It's a miracle there were two.

Yeah Chad and Sophia were professionals so their marriage drama didn’t effect their performance. 
 

I think Lucas was supposed to be the “tortured soul” who wasn’t outright cruel to others (like Nathan) and was at a disadvantage because he was abandoned by Dan and had less resources. But yeah Lucas made plenty of mistakes. He did treat his Mom well. I also like that he and Haley were just friends and stayed friends and had ups and downs- even though they were both heterosexual. It was a miracle. 

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This has got to be something that only happens on tv, because I can’t imagine in real life some girl going to tell a guy she had sex with that she thinks she might be pregnant, because her period is late, without taking a drug store test or going to the doctor. 
 

You need some guy to watch you pee on a stick??

We all know Brooke isn’t pregnant but still. 
 

And Haley would get the man’s jersey number tattooed on herself but considers sex a “big deal” but not a BRAND on her body?? Why is she in love with Nathan again?????

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I started season 2 of OTH and I just realized not only are Haley and Nathan a teen marriage- but they’ve only been dating the length of BASKETBALL season. 

Basket. Ball. Season. Lucas joined the varsity team right before the season just started and now it’s just ended. 

Oh my lord. 

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And didn't Lucas join the team after the season was already in progress?  I haven't watched the pilot in some time, but I remember that the team hijacked the bus (with Nathan and his friend Tim being let go by the cops with no consequences), resulting in a bunch of players getting kicked off and Keith recommending Lucas to Whitey.  So the time frame may have been even shorter before Nathan and Haley married.

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On 10/26/2020 at 4:27 AM, KWalkerInc said:

And didn't Lucas join the team after the season was already in progress?  I haven't watched the pilot in some time, but I remember that the team hijacked the bus (with Nathan and his friend Tim being let go by the cops with no consequences), resulting in a bunch of players getting kicked off and Keith recommending Lucas to Whitey.  So the time frame may have been even shorter before Nathan and Haley married.

Was that a preseason game? But yes you’re right. 

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I like the episode at the end of season 2 where Nathan has the “switched places” dream after his accident. My mom is recovering from a knee replacement so she’s been enjoying some episodes with me. 
 

You know, of course I feel like Karen had every right to not want to marry Keith (why didn’t he make his feelings plain a decade ago???), but she has such an emotional hold on him. He has a right to let it go, Lucas is almost grown, he’s done plenty for her, he has a right to his space. 

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On 10/4/2020 at 1:31 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Why did they create the character of Jaime in the first place?

Because this was the time period of "abstinence only" sex education and therefore you couldn't just have all the teen characters having sex without "punishing" at least one of them with a pregnancy, or at least a pregnancy scare. I also think Schwann wanted to do the parallel of "well, Dan was a teen father and therefore his son will be one, too!" If there's a reboot, Jamie is guaranteed to be the lead. (It could work if they cast well.) Don't think it will happen though because of Schwann's #MeToo scandal. It really didn't surprise me. I always joked that Psycho Derek's Stalking Peyton Photo Mural was a glimpse into Schwann's mind.

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6 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Because this was the time period of "abstinence only" sex education and therefore you couldn't just have all the teen characters having sex without "punishing" at least one of them with a pregnancy, or at least a pregnancy scare. I also think Schwann wanted to do the parallel of "well, Dan was a teen father and therefore his son will be one, too!" If there's a reboot, Jamie is guaranteed to be the lead. (It could work if they cast well.) Don't think it will happen though because of Schwann's #MeToo scandal. It really didn't surprise me. I always joked that Psycho Derek's Stalking Peyton Photo Mural was a glimpse into Schwann's mind.

It was an odd time, because it was born out of this movement that was very post 9/11. Where people were having sex, doing things because "what if tomorrow never comes". Things just went overboard in this movement and sadly entertainment bought into it. Looking back, people who were "fans" of this idea now go: "What was I thinking?" 

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In Season 3 I have so far really enjoyed the storyline with Peyton’s birth mom. Hilary Burton did a great job. 
 

This teen marriage, I just cannot get with all the angst that Hailey and Nathan are going through. She is the one that decided to go on tour. 
 

And why does Brooke want Lucas again? I can understand her being so concerned that he’s really into Peyton, once burned you know...

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To be honest I never thought Lucas was that into Peyton after season one. Or at least it wasn’t written well that he was. I think they went so far the other way with selling Brooke and Lucas that he came off as uninterested in season 3 and by the time they finally got together (and when they got back together in later years) it moreso came off as a result of everyone TELLING him they were meant to be, an epic couple yada yada rather than him actually being crazy into her.

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I 100% forgot that when Dan kills Keith it’s during the school shooting and he frames Jimmy for it. I was shocked. I was already emotional, being 13 when Columbine happened I guess I was the first generation who’s adolescence was marked by mass school shootings, and KEITH!!! RIP Keith!! You were amazing. Fuck Dan omg I hate him. WHY??? And what Mouth is going through now, remembering his friendship with Jimmy, and Lucas is angry because he (logically) believes Jimmy killed Keith.

 

Its too much.

Monsters Inc Reaction GIF by filmeditor

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Everyone is doing a good job with this work. I can feel the pain Luke is in through Chad Michael Murray’s face. And Karen’s comment of “that won’t bring him back will it”- was pure coldness, but parents are people too, she was angry at Lucas, the world, afraid he could’ve died too....

Dan needs to die already....I know we have a while. He killed his brother because he was JEALOUS he was absolutely awful. 

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I didn't watch this show on it's original run, but I am aware enough of pop culture stuff to know some things. I knew there was a school shooting episode, but I had NO IDEA that Keith was going to die in it. Dan is a horrible person, and no matter what kind of redemption arc they give him in the future, it doesn't fly with me. I think Sophia Bush was great in that episode. I actually really like her throughout, but I think she conveyed her helplessness really well in the school shooting episode. She was supposed to be in charge but had no idea what to do because no one knows what to do. Columbine happened at the end of my senior year, so it really put a damper on things. I remember being off school that day for some reason (spring break maybe?) and watching it unfold on tv. Going back to school after that was tense. I know there were school shootings before that one, but Columbine changed everything. DAve Cullen's book about it is amazing if you ever want to take a deeper dive. 

I always thought the Haley goes on tour plot was dumb. I know we have to suspend our disbelief, but come on. High school marriage, then she becomes a rock star and goes on tour? 

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I think it was a few episodes before the school shooting episode that Karen and Keith are sitting in the audience watching the basketball players try to help out with that cheerleading performance that was derailed by Peyton being hung over, and everyone is laughing and being silly.  Keith suddenly says, "If every day could be like today, I'm gonna die a happy man."  (And then maybe he and Karen get engaged right after that?)  I found it instantly alarming and became convinced they were going to kill off Keith.  I don't remember if there were any spoilers that a main character would die in the school shooting episode, but I had a very bad feeling.  I don't think he pops up until halfway through the episode, and then I yelled at the screen, "Get out of this episode or you're going to get killed!"  I didn't like how they took the very real issue of school shootings (something for which Schwahn patted himself on the back frequently) and used it for such a soapy twist as Dan shooting Keith and blaming Jimmy.  Of course, the show was always soapy, but having it happen in this way sort of squicked me out.  Plus Keith and Karen were my favorite couple, which I realized at the time made me old.  (Not that I didn't like some of the younger ones too.)

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On 11/30/2020 at 1:14 PM, sara416 said:

Columbine happened at the end of my senior year, so it really put a damper on things. I remember being off school that day for some reason (spring break maybe?) and watching it unfold on tv.

It was likely spring break as Columbine happened in April. 
 

On 12/1/2020 at 4:33 AM, KWalkerInc said:

Keith suddenly says, "If every day could be like today, I'm gonna die a happy man."  (And then maybe he and Karen get engaged right after that?)  I found it instantly alarming and became convinced they were going to kill off Keith. 

Good intuition. 
 

 

Wait did Dan really think Keith tried to kill him? And that’s why he shot him?

Oooo Peyton confessed she loved Lucas. I’m on Brooke’s side. She (Peyton) had no business. And to say “you said you didn’t really miss him”- shut up Peyton.

 

 

I think they did this because Chad and Sophia broke up......

 

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7 minutes ago, sara416 said:

Yep, Team Brooke for sure.

Absolutely. Peyton knew BOTH TIMES that Brooke was with Lucas. Even if she had feelings for him she should’ve kept her MOUTH SHUT much less saying to Brooke “you didn’t even miss him” or “do you love him?”. That’s NONE of your business Peyton. Brooke is supposed to be your friend, and Lucas said he wanted to be with Brooke. Peyton is being a bad friend and a bad person right now. 
 

I do feel bad for her. She’s emotionally lonely. Her mom died when she was really young, her Dad is always gone, Jake moved away, she just found her birth mom to lose her, and her BFF is in love with a guy for the first time and she has to share- but that’s NO EXCUSE. 
 

Rachel is seriously messed up. What did she think would happen with Cooper? What does she want from him?

Side note those purses DID NOT match the bridal dresses at all. Was that the best costuming could do??

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43 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:
56 minutes ago, sara416 said:

 

Absolutely. Peyton knew BOTH TIMES that Brooke was with Lucas. Even if she had feelings for him she should’ve kept her MOUTH SHUT much less saying to Brooke “you didn’t even miss him” or “do you love him?”. That’s NONE of your business Peyton. Brooke is supposed to be your friend, and Lucas said he wanted to be with Brooke. Peyton is being a bad friend and a bad person right now. 
 

This! Peyton was AWFUL. Such a terrible friend.

i honestly believe the retcon of Brooke and Nathan hooking up was done to make her look better or at least excuse the fact that Peyton betrayed Brooke twice.

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On 12/6/2020 at 9:18 PM, methodwriter85 said:

For me the height of this show was Psycho Derek. Matt Barr can act. I hope he finally hits on that show which makes him famous.

Yes I loved the episode where he came back (the prom episode in season 4). He was creeping me out so badly. 

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3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes I loved the episode where he came back (the prom episode in season 4). He was creeping me out so badly. 

Yeah, Matt Barr still has time. Pedro Pascal was a "hey, it's that guy" until the Mandolorian, and he's in his mid-40's. I definitely think Matt is the best actor I've seen on this show.

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Chad Michael Murray is a better actor than I gave him credit for- I can feel Lucas’ disgust for Dan after he learns Dan killed Keith and no one believes him. Not even Karen! Think Karen, why does Dan feel so guilty????

 

Also- I wanted to say the first time I was really angry with Haley was when she asked Lucas to take the blame for point shaving to keep the heat off of Nathan. The ONLY reason I dont completely hate her, was because Lucas DID actually shave points (he missed the free throws on purpose), had he just known about Nathan doing it and Haley asked him to take the fall it would've been irredeemable. I am glad Nathan showed a bit of maturity and took the blame for what he did, because he did shave points, because he borrowed money from the street, and then got his brother involved. This was the one time I was on Dan's side, "say nothing".

Dan and Karen, now Karen doesnt know Dan killed Keith, but Karen maybe pay more attention to your son whom you raised and WHY he hates Dan so much...and I understand you are pregnant and lonely, but Dan was a horrible human being to you. It wasnt as if he just chose Deb over you, but was a decent person and parented Lucas, he actively denied his existence and then tried to keep YOUR SON off of the basketball team, destroyed his self esteem at every turn, treated you like crap, tried to belittle you, treated Keith horribly, and now he's talking about how "I always loved you." umm NO, if he had two ounces of moral fiber he never would have treated Lucas' as horribly as he did, EVEN IF he wasnt parenting him. If only because he was a teenage boy and Dan was a grown ass man, much less his SON. And no he gets no points for giving consent for lifesaving surgery, a stranger would do that if a child was in serious medical distress.

I cannot wait until this season is over and I see Dan behind bars. Can we get to the flash forward??

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I know the character of Jaime is not beloved, but it’s very very hard to find young children who work well on set. Typically what casting directors try to do is find a child who’s small for their age so they have the language skills and emotional maturity needed to (at least try) to act, but look younger. As I’m watching the start of season 5 I am seeing that Jason Brundage (who plays Jaime) his hitting his marks, emoting with his face and I know this kid is older than 4 just by his demeanor- the actor is 19 now and is only 5’3. He was 7 when he started this role but very small for his age so he LOOKED like a 4 year old. I’m just giving the actor credit for what he could do. 
 

Nathan got into a fist fight with a guy because he was starting shit and called his wife a “fat ass”. Wow. Just wow. Nathan with everything on the line got into a physical confrontation because of words. He called your wife fat and you punched him???? What if that guy and his cronies had guns???? I know he was drinking but still. I have to say Hilary Burton’s makeup looks so nice here, her face is glowing and her cheekbones stunning. 

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I always thought it was interesting that they had Nathan get thrown through the glass in part because he was to be drafted by Seattle and the other guy liked Portland.  I think this was supposed to be several years in the future because of the time jump, and it was already known that the SuperSonics were moving away from Seattle and would not be there by the time the NBA Draft in this episode occurred.  They could have picked any pair of rival teams as no one else was moving, so I don't know why they did that.

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16 hours ago, KWalkerInc said:

I always thought it was interesting that they had Nathan get thrown through the glass in part because he was to be drafted by Seattle and the other guy liked Portland.  I think this was supposed to be several years in the future because of the time jump, and it was already known that the SuperSonics were moving away from Seattle and would not be there by the time the NBA Draft in this episode occurred.  They could have picked any pair of rival teams as no one else was moving, so I don't know why they did that.

I didn’t know that! Thanks. 

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Alright, I jumped back in & realize another thing that makes this a little hard to binge is the music. God this show really captured the warbling emo "waaaaahs" of the '00s. No wonder this was the decade I went from KROQ back to KIIS FM (SoCal reference - aka alt rock station, back to the station with On Air With Ryan Seacrest). 

KFed is too much. I continuously email my friend when people pop up that I have no memory of being on the show, and she never remembers either (Huey Lewis was another "I do not remember him on this!!" guy). I also had no memory that he was how the god awful Mia was introduced.

Peyton & Lucas both think they are way deeper than they are. 

I don't remember Skills being Tom Cruise short, but he is. 

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I need to watch something much more sane than the American news, so I'm diving back in to this. I think I'm on the episode where the dog is going to eat Dan's replacement heart...and still, so much more "normal" & relaxing than American news. 😆😆😆

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Lucas throwing a hissy fit because Lindsey is seeing someone else- Lindsey left you at the altar and told you that she was done. That’s pretty clear indication that it’s over, whats Lucas throwing this hissy fit for?? I’m almost at the end of season 5. Next season we have Peyton’s pregnancy and Brooke fostering a teen if I recall  


I don’t really remember much of season 7-I think Hailey’s Mom died and she went into a deep depression, and there was the romance between Nathan’s sports agent and Hailey’s sister.......

Seasons 8 and 9, I’ve got nothing!!!

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Oh, I remember...didn't seasons 8 & 9 turn into the "Clay/Quinn" show? 🙄

I was mistaken. The dog has not eaten the heart. Dan had to get "Misery" style kidnapped by Nanny Carrie first & now I'm to where they kill poor Q...which speaking of Q, I think it's fucked up that he had a brother that was Jamie's age, yet felt compelled to give Jamie his special box that he kept treasures in as a little boy. 

Lindsay was such a "wtf" storyline. I never understood why she was this great love of Lucas, and I agree he pined way longer than made sense. Also, the second he got over it he wants to elope with Peyton? Da fuq? 

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Season 9 was mostly "Nathan has been kidnapped" so that James Lafferty didn't have to be in as many episodes or something.  Then to fill the rest of the time, "Mouth is in a fat suit fat," which really went nowhere.

I don't remember Kevin Federline on this show, but at least Mia gave The Soup the classic catch phrase "Stay out of it...Nick Lachey!"

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9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Lucas throwing a hissy fit because Lindsey is seeing someone else- Lindsey left you at the altar and told you that she was done. That’s pretty clear indication that it’s over, whats Lucas throwing this hissy fit for??

This further proved my feeling that Lucas ended up with Peyton because everyone told him he had to rather then him actually wanting to. Both times they got back together was after he had been dumped by Brooke and then by Lindsey. It never felt like Lucas really loved Peyton or was proactive in making things official with her until he had no other option. I know they were meant to be the great love story of the show but to me it just failed. 

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2 hours ago, Avabelle said:

This further proved my feeling that Lucas ended up with Peyton because everyone told him he had to rather then him actually wanting to. Both times they got back together was after he had been dumped by Brooke and then by Lindsey. It never felt like Lucas really loved Peyton or was proactive in making things official with her until he had no other option. I know they were meant to be the great love story of the show but to me it just failed. 

I think Lucas liked Peyton, but liked being her knight in shining armor more than actually liking her. AND I also think Sophia Bush and Chad Michael Murray’s real life divorce played into this. 

 

10 hours ago, CaliforniaLove said:

I was mistaken. The dog has not eaten the heart. Dan had to get "Misery" style kidnapped by Nanny Carrie first & now I'm to where they kill poor Q...which speaking of Q, I think it's fucked up that he had a brother that was Jamie's age, yet felt compelled to give Jamie his special box that he kept treasures in as a little boy. 

Q died??? I am not there yet I 100% forgot about this!

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15 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:
3 hours ago, Avabelle said:

 

I think Lucas liked Peyton, but liked being her knight in shining armor more than actually liking her. AND I also think Sophia Bush and Chad Michael Murray’s real life divorce played into this.

Absolutely on both counts. Lucas loved the pedestal she had him on but I think the ship lost a lot of credibility in season two when he fell in love and pined for Brooke. No matter how hard they tried there was just no way I believed he would have ended up with Peyton had Brooke not dumped him and later Lindsey. The show had to resort to the embarrassing trope of other characters referring to their epic connection.

I think Brooke/Lucas would have definitely been revisited had Chad and Sophia not gotten divorced. I also think Lucas might not have exited with Peyton at the end of season 7 which might have changed the eventual ending. 

Edited by Avabelle
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9 hours ago, Avabelle said:

I think Brooke/Lucas would have definitely been revisited had Chad and Sophia not gotten divorced. I also think Lucas might not have exited with Peyton at the end of season 7 which might have changed the eventual ending. 

Yeah. And given I can’t remember the ending I’m looking forward to seeing what happens. 

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Yes I did forget Quentin died, and this is really sad. Poor Skills. Jaime had every right to go to the funeral. 
Brooke and Jaime holding hands and Brooke finally breaking down....

The line up of the basketball team with the space for Q, and his little brother standing in his spot, damn, it’s like when Keith died. Cry Reaction GIF by SpongeBob SquarePants

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2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Nathan is throwing his mother out because she’s sleeping with Skills? The boy needs to check himself. Your mom is helping you out by being an unpaid nanny, and she’s grown, and Skills is grown. So stop. 

I love how Jamie had to be the voice of reason. I did LOL when Deb was watching Nate & Skills play one-on-one & when she says "good job honey!", they both say "thanks!". 

Was it ever explained how Nathan & Haley have the mansion that they do? I know Nate was drafted, but when you get thrown through a glass window & don't end up playing, you don't get paid? Was there a throwaway line about a signing bonus that was his regardless of what happened? It makes no sense to me. 

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50 minutes ago, CaliforniaLove said:

I love how Jamie had to be the voice of reason. I did LOL when Deb was watching Nate & Skills play one-on-one & when she says "good job honey!", they both say "thanks!". 

Was it ever explained how Nathan & Haley have the mansion that they do? I know Nate was drafted, but when you get thrown through a glass window & don't end up playing, you don't get paid? Was there a throwaway line about a signing bonus that was his regardless of what happened? It makes no sense to me. 

I was thinking about that. Maybe he did get a signing bonus and they paid cash for the house, OR when Dan went to prison he put Nathan on all his accounts so the money wouldn’t escheat to the state. (Not sure)
 

Also, can someone fill me in about Peyton and her Dad. Wouldn’t her brother have told her their father’s name? Ellie knew where to find the older half brother, and he was old enough to have memories of their father before the guy split and got with Ellie. So why does Peyton act like she has no idea who the man is? 

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