S06.E09: Broken or Not

[bros402]

9 hours ago, TeeJay said:

I hear all your criticism, and to a certain extent I agree with it, but I think if they were making the show the way you're describing you'd rather see it written, it would be very boring and it wouldn't have ratings that would sustain it beyond one or two seasons. I know I most probably wouldn't be watching it.

Have you heard of the term of suspension of disbelief? The show is a lot more enjoyable if you learn to employ that for the sake of escapism.

They can still have it be entertaining and use the oddities of everyday life of autistics to make things interesting. Suspension of disbelief is great, but it doesn't really work when the character never progresses. Shaun being in therapy and improving over time would be great for his character and it would be at least a season's worth of B plots.

[circumvent]

11 hours ago, TeeJay said:

Then can I ask why you still watch the show if you think it's massively inaccurate, it's insulting to individuals with ASD and other disabilities, it's exploitative and annoying? It comes back to the idea I really don't understand: Why do people voluntarily put themselves through such a negative experience week to week?

Holding on until cannot hold on anymore. Also, shed whatever knowledge I have about the inaccuracies I see so other viewers who don't have a clue about autism start understanding that the show is a  big stereotypical assumption about autism and autistics. I know it sounds arrogant but I do know more than some and because of my involvement with the disabled community, I think I can try to amplify what I am told and see them experiencing. I watch in hopes they will show something interesting, which sometimes they do, and to "clean up" the mess they created. Disabilities are stigmatizing enough. You said it yourself, that you would be bored if Shaun was more like we would like him to be, or the stories would be told differently. But what some of us are saying, is that we would like to see less stigma and more reality. Autistic people are not shining objects, they are also not a problem to be solved. So we point out the stigma and assumptions being perpetuated in this show. 

[circumvent]

Law and Order, Grey's Anatomy, are shows that have been running for how long? I don't watch those, but I know that the characters have been there long enough to be grandparent's by now. Ratings and quality are not cause/consequence. People are so uneducated about disabilities that they will believe any stereotype. TV shows get chosen, or keep running, according to, in part, the power the producers have in the studio. 

I do expect that the writers improve the quality of the scripts to satisfy reality. Not to fix to my satisfaction, to make it accurate. Like I said, disabilities are stigmatizing enough, the show could be education instead of going for the easy pickings of inspiration porn. 

Shaun did improve in some areas, so it is baffling that they still make the character an impossibility. They don't address that part, a surgeon who still has destructive meltdowns and keeps his job. The fact that he kept the job after destroying medication is part of the inspiration/pity porn aspect. They could have addressed the situation in an adult way. Instead, they chose to please the audience (hey, ratings!) and mostly ignore the incident. That's pity porn. The audience sees him as this brilliant autistic person (shiny!) and at the same time this "poor guy" who needs a second chance BECAUSE he is autistic (infantilization). 

In some episodes, I don't even see Shaun as autistic. Where are the images of how his brain processes the problems in the OR? Freddy also overacts in some scenes.

 

[possibilities]

I watch because I started out interested in the show and  I did like it at first, but over time have gotten more and more disgusted with it. I am dangling by a thread as to whether to keep watching.

I try to monitor media about disabled people, because it affects my community in real life, and speaking up from an insider's view about what disability is really like is something that we (not just me but others in disability word) find makes a difference in how we are perceived by others, when they have no actual real world experience to compare to what the media portrays. It matters to me, so I watch. Not everything in life has to be pleasant. Some things are chores but you do them anyway.

That said, I do sometimes enjoy aspects of the show. And, perhaps stupidly, I do keep finding myself giving them the benefit of the doubt and hoping they will change. When they first paralyzed Lim, I was hoping they would do a good job. I remain, despite all odds, bizarrely an optimist. Sometimes showrunners do respond to feedback or valid criticism. I've seen it happen. People are capable of change, when presented with new info or perspectives they haven't considered. But there's value in speaking up whether or not that happens. Maybe nothing changes. But nothing gets accomplished by NOT speaking up, either. 

Another thing is that when I see something that portrays people like me in a harmful way, I always feel relieved when somebody else comes along and refutes it. That's part of being an ally and caring about the world, and I've had people specifically ask me to act as an ally to them by doing that when I see something that would hurt them. It makes it easier to get past it and enjoy whatever good is there, when there are people noticing and taking a larger view.

I used to enjoy the show more. But over time they have consistently removed elements I liked or characters I was interested in. But it still has its moments. I liked it when Lea told Glassman to stop infantilizing Shaun. I liked it when they cast an actually paralyzed actor for Lim's  boyfriend, and I liked the way they've written him so far (the proposal after a short time was ridiculous, but I handwaved it, so you see I am able to tolerate some dramatic license). Sometimes I think the show is provocative in a good way, like how everyone was so upset about harvesting the pig organ, and when they show people reacting in complex ways to complicated situations, like with the recent story about a paternity question and the need to face up to it in order to save a life.

Just like in real life, sometimes there are pros and cons, and mixed feelings about various people, places, or things. It seems to me that you want this forum to be reflective of your own feelings about the show, and I get that. Validation is always fun. And you are posting about your frustration with that, just like some of us are posting about our frustrations with the show. But there are always going to be a diversity of opinions and reactions to situations. I don't think it's realistic to expect everyone to react the same way or think the same thoughts, and I won't ask you to justify your presence here so it would be great if you stop asking those of use who don't think the same thoughts as you to justify our presence.

Edited January 15, 2023 by possibilities
fix typos

[circumvent]

5 hours ago, TeeJay said:

I dunno, this sounds like you think Shaun's ASD needs to be portrayed in this very specific way that you think is representative of autism, and that the show constantly gets it wrong because it doesn't meet your expectation of ASD. Who's to say that people like Shaun don't exist in the real world?

This conversation is getting repetitive so this is the last I say what I would like to see: a better representation of autism based on my experience of 21 years living, 24/7, 365 with autistic people with different support needs. If that's not your experience, or if you cannot understand this, that's fine. I am not trying to change your mind, I was answering your questions and clarifying things that I thought would didn't understand well. 

And no, someone like Shaun, an autistic that has huge uncontrollable meltdowns and destroy things does not exist as a surgeon. If by any miracle, struck of luck or other very unique situation someone like him were able to finish med school, and go through internship, all with very little support (since his only friend is his mentor and before Lea he was a loner), he would be fired from the hospital he works in after the first meltdown. People like him do exist, but they are in other professions, things that accommodate their needs better. I would be able to suspend my disbelief, as you said, if the writers had created characters that are his support system, people he would go to and show him learning the coping mechanisms, then applying them while at work. We don't have a backstory for him, other than the basic trauma and that he was in foster care. Nothing about his college  experience, for example. They wanted a quirky, genius autistic doctor so they threw all the stereotypical autistic traits on him. That's damaging to autistic people

5 hours ago, TeeJay said:

I don't know what your ultimate wish is here. What I'm hearing is that you want a show that portrays the professional and personal journey of an autistic protagonist trying to fit into a neurotypical world, yet you want him to be able to perfectly mask at all times, to perfectly cope with any stressful situation because autisitc people need to learn that skill in a professional world, and you want him to always be at the top of his game and never melt down, fail or rub people the wrong way, because when he does, that's pity porn or inspiration porn or infantilisation. Honestly, it kinda sounds like that show could never do right by you, no matter what they do.

You are completely distorting what I have been saying. It is the opposite, I don't want his to mask or fit in the neurotypical word as in pretending he doesn't have any stress. I want the writers to portray autism better. I want them to show that, because the autistic brain processes situations in a different way, he should have either a support team, a disabled friend, or a real background, and consequence, to his outbursts when they are completely unacceptable with other people. If another doctor had gone and destroyed medication, they would have been fired. Shaun is still there, no consequences. Since I said numerous times that in reality someone like him would not be in the position he is, the writers could at least follow up on that mess, give context, change something, anything. He is who he is, but that does not exempt him from consequences.

I don't know if the show will "do right" by me. I am not important, lol. If you paid attention to what I wrote, you know that I saw interesting things in the first seasons. But I do think they have not grown the character, and have made the perception of autism worse in some situations. 

Like I said, this discussion is repetitive. You enjoy the show. Like you said, they are doing really well. I don't enjoy it as I hoped and I think that, if they ever thought about elevating autistic voices, they are doing more harm than good at this point. My opinion and I will not try to explain the whys anymore. Just don't assume that I am saying something unless I actually said the thing

[Annber03]

For my part, I continue to watch this show 'cause I like the cast/characters and I'm not one who tends to drop shows in general, and when I post comments I tend to focus on the positive, partly because a site like this is often the only place I have to talk about my favorite shows with people, so I want to focus on the positive, and partly because I think other people are far better at expressing critiques of a show than I tend to be. I can find things to critique about this show, too, but I think other people vocalize those critiques better than I could, so I leave it to them to do so. 

The autism/disability portrayals on this show, and the nuances of such topics, are a perfect example of that. I don't have personal experience with those topics, so I don't feel comfortable speaking on something I'm not very knowledgeable about. But I do appreciate hearing from those who are, because it does help enhance and allow me to better understand what the show is doing, rightly or wrongly, with the portrayals, and I have learned some worthwhile things along the way. Same applies to people who comment on how the average medical aspects of the show do or don't reflect how real life hospitals work. There's room for all kinds of discussion here, positive and negative.