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S06.E08: Sorry, Not Sorry


bros402
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Drs. Shaun Murphy, Asher Wolke and Aaron Glassman meet a patient with an infected surgical sponge that was left in their abdomen. Meanwhile, Dr. Morgan Park must face her own past when she treats the victim of a sexual assault.

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This episode was...it felt disjointed. The sponge plotline probably would've been better in an episode dealing with Shaun & Lea's fertility issues - I was expecting that to be the cause of Shaun not being able to use his Magical Autism Powers to solve it.

Andrews' cosmetic surgery patient felt sort of out of place in this episode - there could've been any other plot to get him and the nurse interacting with each other. Even if it was just locking the two of them in an elevator with a patient.

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And so the ice slowly starts to thaw between Shaun and Lim. I'm glad to see them finally starting to talk to each other about all of this. And now Lim's got this potential news regarding her prognosis as well. Quite a lot to take in and sort through.

The storyline with Morgan was heartbreaking. I liked how they showed just how intense the process is that Toni went through, with the rape kit and everything. I can understand her reservations - even if one knows it's something worth doing, it's still a very intimidating, overwhelming experience. She went from a situation where she gave no consent to one where she had to give it over and over and over again. That's quite the abrupt shift to deal with. 

I will say that while it's good and expected that Park would show his support for Morgan, it would've been kinda good to see Morgan not having to explain to a guy why she didn't tell him about such a traumatic experience from her past, or for Park to be supportive without having to wonder why she didn't tell him. It's just such a common outcome of these kinds of stories on TV. 

As for Jordan and Daniel, given Asher was initially so eager to see them get together, it's interesting that he's kinda cooled on that, and is warning Jordan to tread carefully with Daniel. Is he right that Daniel's interest may not be as deep as initially presumed? Daniel did explain that he was kinda holding off on a relationship given his personal struggles, but that could've also been an excuse to not get involved, too. 

Nice to see Villanueva again. Andrews inviting her out for a drink at the end was interesting. 

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The patient saying she doesn't even know if she gave consent struck me as a bit much. She was brutalized to the point that her spleen needed to be removed. She was obviously beaten. That was a felony assault even if there hadn't also been a rape. I get that the drugging gave her amnesia, but someone should have talked to her besides the surgeons, like a social worker or sexual assault counselor.

They've given Morgan a total personality transplant. 

I spent most of the episode disgusted that the acting was so bad for the Lim character-- it was obvious she was moving and putting weight on her legs when she transferred, and generally not even slightly mimicking paralysis. By the end of the episode, I was disgusted with the writing, because of Glassman saying he saw her regaining muscle activity. So the acting was probably deliberate, and not just that they didn't bother to learn how paralysis looks.

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The warning/viewer discretion advise at the beginning pretty much gave away that this was going to be a heavy episode.

The actress playing Toni did a great job with all of her scenes and really showed all of the steps that a survivor of sexual assault/rape will likely go through.  In particular, I thought the sequence with the rape kit was well done: especially showing how even that can be painful and awkward, and that's why some refuse it (especially when there isn't a guarantee that it will change anything, sadly.)  Didn't see Reznick being a victim herself coming, but I find it believable since she is definitely someone who would probably keep all of that to herself and not want to share that experience with others.  Glad Park was supportive at the end, although I'm curious how he found out since she only told Toni when they were alone.  Did she just tell him after?

Glad that Shaun and Lim are finally taking some kind of steps to reconciling, even if they might still have ways to go.  Thought Shaun's apology was solid and believable: it wouldn't have been realistic for him to say he was wrong (and I don't think Lim would have believed it either), but he actually did address that his actions have caused her problems and hardship, and that's something that will be with them going forward.  And I think Lim herself now does believe Shaun was trying to do what he thought was right and honestly not even sure he was in the wrong since they are still unsure what caused her paralyzation.  Curious to see where this goes.

Damn, Villanueva apparently took her brush with death as a way to be all "Fuck it, no way am I going to let my superior be an uncaring ass" with her job, and basically made sure Andrews went through with doing the cosmetic surgery he was trying to dump on someone else.  Naturally it leads to him wanting to take her out to dinner.  If this goes in a romantic direction, it would certainly be a step up from Salen, to put it mildly!

I wish I could care more about Jordan/Danny.  Granted, I feel like Asher is the only person here who does...

Did not miss Powell at all.

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i was concerned that they were not going to tell the rape victim that, even if she might not want to pursue it, if she doesn't get the rape kit done and the guy identified, he'd do it again to her or someone else.

i don't think i ever had any idea how involved getting a rape kit is.  having to give consent over and over again must be incredibly traumatic and hard to have to endure. 

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16 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Daniel did explain that he was kinda holding off on a relationship given his personal struggles, but that could've also been an excuse to not get involved, too.

It’s way more cut and dry than that. He’s a recovering substance abuser who has been given a chance to continue to pursue his chosen profession-as long as he follows the program. Period. Not an excuse to avoid involvement, as he clearly wants to be involved with Jordan, but will lose his profession if he takes the relationship further at this point in time.   Their whole approach-avoidance is why Asher now seems to have done a 180 and is warning her off. (Does he know why they seem to be doing this “crumb” dance? Did she tell Asher the “secret” Daniel presumably told her in confidence?) What doesn’t fit is why Jordan still “is waiting” for a sign that it will be more. She’s either willing to wait the program-prescribed time for him or she’s not. Given the events in the locker room, apparently she’s not (ouch). All around, it’s a lousy, undeveloped side story (short-shrifting the Jordan character).  If they wanted pretty-boy in the cast, along with his very real personal struggle, they should have involved him with someone he didn’t need to work with so closely on a daily basis. On the whole, it was a solid episode, but for this. 

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15 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Didn't see Reznick being a victim herself coming, but I find it believable since she is definitely someone who would probably keep all of that to herself and not want to share that experience with others. 

And probably the reason why she’s been such a raving….(you know what) in the past. I really like how she’s evolved (and softened a bit). 

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2 hours ago, Daff said:

It’s way more cut and dry than that. He’s a recovering substance abuser who has been given a chance to continue to pursue his chosen profession-as long as he follows the program. Period. Not an excuse to avoid involvement, as he clearly wants to be involved with Jordan, but will lose his profession if he takes the relationship further at this point in time.   Their whole approach-avoidance is why Asher now seems to have done a 180 and is warning her off. (Does he know why they seem to be doing this “crumb” dance? Did she tell Asher the “secret” Daniel presumably told her in confidence?) What doesn’t fit is why Jordan still “is waiting” for a sign that it will be more. She’s either willing to wait the program-prescribed time for him or she’s not. Given the events in the locker room, apparently she’s not (ouch). All around, it’s a lousy, undeveloped side story (short-shrifting the Jordan character).  If they wanted pretty-boy in the cast, along with his very real personal struggle, they should have involved him with someone he didn’t need to work with so closely on a daily basis. On the whole, it was a solid episode, but for this. 

I assume Asher doesn't know Daniel's "secret," because otherwise calling him a breadcrumber seems pretty unfair and insensitive. Daniel doesn't seem to be sending mixed signals or stringing Jordan along. He flat out told her that was attracted to her but can't be in a relationship because of where he is in his recovery. It is then on Jordan to decide if she wants to be friends or not.

I wish the episode description didn't give away the Morgan reveal. "she must confront her past when dealing with the victim of sexual assault."

It is scary that a doctor/nurse's mistake in leaving behind a sponge could cause such serious problems. Or that such a thing could happen.

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On 12/6/2022 at 8:01 AM, possibilities said:

I spent most of the episode disgusted that the acting was so bad for the Lim character-- it was obvious she was moving and putting weight on her legs when she transferred, and generally not even slightly mimicking paralysis. By the end of the episode, I was disgusted with the writing, because of Glassman saying he saw her regaining muscle activity. So the acting was probably deliberate, and not just that they didn't bother to learn how paralysis looks.

On the one hand it's dumb that they didn't just commit to the paralysis from the start.

On the other hand, it never made any sense how she got paralised in the first place, the shows handling of her paralysis was and is attrocious and I'm just soooo ready to be done with this dumbass storyline. So I'm glad they are finally getting it done.

On 12/6/2022 at 8:08 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Didn't see Reznick being a victim herself coming, but I find it believable since she is definitely someone who would probably keep all of that to herself and not want to share that experience with others. 

I was expecting it from the start. It is the cliched thing to do and so it was obvious that these writers would do it.

It would have been a lot more interesting if she was just the hardass we know her to be, who had a strong conviction, that rapists shouldn't get away with it.

On 12/6/2022 at 8:08 AM, thuganomics85 said:

but he actually did address that his actions have caused her problems and hardship

... even though the show has never properly explained how that is supposed to be medically possible.

12 hours ago, Daff said:

It’s way more cut and dry than that. He’s a recovering substance abuser who has been given a chance to continue to pursue his chosen profession-as long as he follows the program. Period. Not an excuse to avoid involvement, as he clearly wants to be involved with Jordan, but will lose his profession if he takes the relationship further at this point in time.

That's not a thing. He wasn't caught. There are no stipulations to him continuing in his career. Even if he was caught, which he wasn't, you can't forbid somebody from having a relationship.

That is something he put on himself, because he thinks he can't handle a relationship without relapsing at the moment.

If he still thinks that, fine. But in that case it's a dick move to kiss her.

9 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I assume Asher doesn't know Daniel's "secret," because otherwise calling him a breadcrumber seems pretty unfair and insensitive. Daniel doesn't seem to be sending mixed signals or stringing Jordan along. He flat out told her that was attracted to her but can't be in a relationship because of where he is in his recovery. It is then on Jordan to decide if she wants to be friends or not.

I would have agreed with you, until the end of the episode.

9 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

It is scary that a doctor/nurse's mistake in leaving behind a sponge could cause such serious problems. Or that such a thing could happen.

It's very unlikely. All things used during surgery must be accounted for afterwards, for this exact reason. But mistakes can happen.

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If I go into a hospital, is there a paper I can sign where medical personal cannot let their own personal issues affect my care? I don't love the fact that anytime I step into a hospital my own medical issues or personal trauma will apparently be used as some psychodrama for doctors to unpack their own issues. 

A lot about the rape survivor story was really good, the actress playing her was excellent, although I knew right away, even without the episode summary, that Morgan would be revealed to be a sexual assault survivor. This is television, no one just has strong opinions, it all has to tie back to some personal trauma or issue. I get why this was important to Morgan, but I really felt bad for the women, the last thing she needed in the middle of this horrible thing was for someone to try to take away her choice again. Hopefully doing the rape kit, as rough as it was, gets the rapist arrested, or even if that doesn't happen, it can help her start to heal. I did find it weird that no one tried to call a specialist in sexual assault, like a social worker, who could help talk her through this, instead of her just talking to her surgeons. 

Getting a sponge stuck inside of you is so gross, ick. 

I assume that Jordan didn't tell Asher about the reason why Daniel is holding off on dating her, or he probably wouldn't have been accusing him of jerking her around. I like Jordan and I like Daniel so far, but I am really not feeling this relationship. If he feels like he isn't ready to be in a relationship, especially with a co-worker, they should probably disperse with the flirting and just be friends/colleagues. 

I'm really glad that Shaun and Lim had some real talk and are making some progress in mending things. I can really get both of their perspectives, and I am glad that Shaun specifically said that he wasn't sorry about the choice he made but he's sorry that Lim is struggling, that seems more in character than him saying that he regrets his surgical choice. Of course now it looks like she could walk again! Doctor Stalker is going to be pissed, she'll probably tell Lim not to do anything that could let her walk again. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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Actually happens fairly regularly that items are left inside patients - According to the National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI), retained surgical bodies after a procedure is an issue for surgeons and hospitals. They estimate surgical instruments get left inside patients between 0.3 to 1.0 per 1,000 abdominal operations.

70 percent are sponges.

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The episode wasn't tooooooooo bad but was still bad. I don't care about Jordan and the other guy. It is silly and unnecessary for the sow but I know I am in the losing end of what show runners like to put in shows. 

I am also not interested in Morgan's life circles. It looks like they don't know what to do with the character, so they experiment with everything

The sob talk between Lim and Shaun was awful. Even if Shaun has a brief moment of growth, it wasn't well explored and in the end it was just a ridiculous conversation between two adults in a professional setting, about their personal feelings. 

The rape story is recycle of recycled of recycled......x 1000. It is poignant and devastating, it is real, but when a show does that, maybe, just maybe, they could introduce a line like - cases are not only underreported, but also rarely solved. The backlog is immense and chances are you will never catch the person who did this to you. Also, aren't doctors required to report crimes? Does anyone know if in the case the victim is informed of what happened, does she need to give consent to call the police (not that they are any better, sometimes worse, but I would think it would be mandatory report - as it was discovered while she was unconscious)

Another peeve: in this show, everyone needs surgery RIGHT NOW! Could they at least take 5 seconds to add a scene where they asked for informed consent? 

6 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Actually happens fairly regularly that items are left inside patients - According to the National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI), retained surgical bodies after a procedure is an issue for surgeons and hospitals. They estimate surgical instruments get left inside patients between 0.3 to 1.0 per 1,000 abdominal operations.

70 percent are sponges.

I think it is a lot as one in 1 million would be a lot and unacceptable but in the context of how many medical errors happen every day, this one pretty low

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On 12/6/2022 at 1:40 PM, cinsays said:

i was concerned that they were not going to tell the rape victim that, even if she might not want to pursue it, if she doesn't get the rape kit done and the guy identified, he'd do it again to her or someone else.

i don't think i ever had any idea how involved getting a rape kit is.  having to give consent over and over again must be incredibly traumatic and hard to have to endure. 

She was in denial. He is her friend, he wouldn't do that. Then the flashbacks to how violent it was. It is something a lot of women just want to forget. It is difficult to hold a rapist accountable.

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Ugh. This episode was frustrating to say the least.

Just 3 episodes prior, Daniel told Jordan that he couldn't be with her because he had to focus on his sobriety. And in THREE episodes, Jordan is now letting him crash at her place while they work closely together, and saying she was waiting for more, and is now just deciding to stop waiting and move on? And, now Daniel's sobriety struggles are not so bad that he's now ready to kiss Jordan. What the hell has happened to the writing on this show? The pushing of this relationship is just so forced, and it's almost like watching Grey's. And as a result of this, the whole character of Daniel seems to only revolve around around the romantic tension created with Jordan.

And as for the rape victim, this is reason #1205 why this show needs attending physicians for the ER. An attending physician would have noticed signs of a rape and told the patient face-to-face in a private setting. And that would be a lot better than Jordan finding the evidence while in the OR and announcing it to everyone who was present in the OR. And the whole Morgan admitting her rape which lead to Toni finally choosing to have a rape kit done was so predictable. There are so many other ways in which Toni could have decided on her own to get a rape kit done that wouldn't have required Morgan to give her motivation.

And just like I thought a few episodes ago, all Shaun needed to do was apologize to Lim. Not for doing the surgery, but for the aftermath the came as a result of doing the surgery. That's what Lim needed to hear. He finally took some accountability.

Edited by WinJet0819
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On 12/7/2022 at 9:45 AM, circumvent said:

Another peeve: in this show, everyone needs surgery RIGHT NOW! Could they at least take 5 seconds to add a scene where they asked for informed consent? 

Yeah, I cynically told my husband, no way would they have rushed her into surgery that fast without getting all her information, especially her insurance.

I'm not sure how Glassman can recognize Lim's ability to move, and she can't. I also don't get how quickly she's reached a point where she's happy with her new life. Her struggle has been so glossed over.

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4 hours ago, ForReal said:

especially her insurance

Right? This is 'Murica after all. The priority is the insurance, if no insurance, a document they force you to sign that you will pay of face the proverbial guillotine. Those surgeons are not on call in the ER. They see people by appointment, after the patients have already seen their doctors, that advised surgery. Maybe the producers will change the name of the show to - Good Doctor in the ER and Everywhere Else Doing All the Things RIGHT NOW!

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