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S01.E03: The Way Out


Athena
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Was it just me, or did Colum's legs look radically different during the massage than they did when we were introduced to him?

I thought they looked less distractingly weird.  I don't know if they were done differently, if it's because he wasn't wearing stockings, or if I was just distracted by his bare ass.

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I had the same reaction about the Lilly of the valley until I did some research. The plant they showed on Outlander is: Maianthemum dilatatum ( Wild Lily of the Valley) instead of the one we are familiar with: Convallaria majalis ( Lily of the Valley).

 

Except that Claire specifically calls it : Convallaria Majalis <<< I watched again last night just to make sure. Even if it was Maianthemum Dilatatum --- that plant does NOT having a vining habit. But it doesn't matter. I try not to let little nit-picks bother me too much ;-)

 

Sorry to jump in the middle of a discussion. I have read every post in every episode forum available about Outlander. This show is amazing! And that little thing with the plants has been my only WTF moment.

 

I read the first book (who knew there were more than one??) many years ago. So long ago in fact that all I recall is a character from present goes back into the past and hijinks ensue. I didn't even remember a single characters name until I watched the first episode. So I am kind of a "virgin" to Outlander.

 

I am loving the actress they chose for Claire. She is just perfect. Her arrogance with just the right mix of vulnerability comes across so beautifully. and the scenery?  My My breathtaking!

 

This is the first show in a long time I have liked right from the very beginning. I am intrigued how this will all play out. And since I can't remember how it goes in the books ---it is all new to me!

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I just got to watch this episode, and I'm still loving it. 

 

Claire has got to be blind if she doesn't realize that Jamie is completely smitten with her and the fact that she is flirting back. I know she's married, but she hasn't acted on anything so I don't see a problem with what she's doing, just what it's doing to poor Jamie who thinks she's a grieving widow which is why he's not acting on it either. 

 

Geillis is a time traveler too isn't she? She's way too interested in Claire's story and seems way too chill for a woman of that time. Don't tell me I want to see it unfold. 

 

That priest is going to a be a problem for Claire. I think her daydream about Mrs. Fitz calling her a witch will come true soon if she doesn't reign in her knowledge of things no one else knows about it. 

 

I'm not a poisonous plant expert so I didn't think anything of that scene. 

 

I haven't shipped a couple since a bad experience with Lost and swore off shipping, but I may have to take it back since I am shipping Jamie/Claire hardcore. Their story intrigues me and the actors have amazing chemistry. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Geillis is a time traveler too isn't she? She's way too interested in Claire's story and seems way too chill for a woman of that time. Don't tell me I want to see it unfold.

 

That priest is going to a be a problem for Claire. I think her daydream about Mrs. Fitz calling her a witch will come true soon if she doesn't reign in her knowledge of things no one else knows about it

 

 I don't want to be spoiled either but I got the same impression about  Gaylis (Geillis) . She just doesn't "fit" in that time.

 

And yes. I felt that scene with the priest was foreshadowing trouble ahead. I know if I ended up back in the 18th century --- my ass would be burned at the stake! I simply could not keep my mouth shut. and I fear Claire has that same problem!

 

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I enjoy the show. I just wanted to say that my heart sank when Jamie was making out with Laoghaire.  Way to take advantage of a young girl, arsehole. He's still sexy, so I hope to see more of him and his kilts, but I no longer want him and Claire to become a "thing" the way I used to.  What a disappointment. 

It was disappointing, but try to think of it this way...Jamie is interested in Claire, but Claire seems like she wants to be just friends, so that's not really an option.  Laoghaire is very much interested in him so Jamie tries to give it a chance.  They kiss.  However, he immediately realizes she's not the one for him and he'd rather moon over Claire than be with Laoghaire.  We don't yet know Jamie's POV on the situation, and I find this version more palatable than thinking he was just using the girl.  However, my first reaction was very much like yours.

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I know,  I probably would've been wearing jeans and a hoodie when I went to visit some stones in Scotland so they would've thought I was a witch right then.

 

Yes. It was quite fortuitous of Claire to be wearing a dress that could be mistaken as a nightgown -- am I right? HaHa!!

besides the jeans and hoodie --- I seriously would be like ---My sisters! Unite! Stand up against the oppression of men!

 

 

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Geillis is a time traveler too isn't she? She's way too interested in Claire's story and seems way too chill for a woman of that time. Don't tell me I want to see it unfold.

 

I don't want to be spoiled either but I got the same impression about  Gaylis (Geillis) . She just doesn't "fit" in that time.

I hope not. On the one hand, I suppose there's no reason why Claire would be the only person to travel through time via the stones at Crag Na Dun. Other other hand, it seems a bit much if they all end up in the 1740s. I also don't want to have to wonder if anyone who's slightly off is a time traveler.

Besides, if anyone else traveled through time it's Frank. He doesn't just look like Black Jack, Frank looks exactly like him. I bet if you did a DNA test on the two of them, they'd be genetically identical.

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On the one hand, I suppose there's no reason why Claire would be the only person to travel through time via the stones at Crag Na Dun.

 

If there's an actual song about it, then someone else has had to have done it. I hope there's more revelation of a legend surrounding the stones. 

 

Besides, if anyone else traveled through time it's Frank. He doesn't just look like Black Jack, Frank looks exactly like him.

 

I don't know how sci fi and timey whimey this show wants to be, but genetic reincarnation is a thing in sci fi. So it could be that. If it's actually Frank-from-1940s, then that's one fucked up time loop because he clearly didn't recognize Claire.

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Oh Geilis you adorable sociopath. You were my favourite person in this episode.

 

I didn't like this episode as much as the previous two, Geilis scenes not included. I think there was too much talk and not enough balance between the characters. I feel like they want to have all the characters there all the time but sometimes that doesn't work. As much as I like Frank Randall, the war memories could have been saved for another episode.

 

Why would Claire want to travel to the Middle Ages? To be most certainly burnt as a witch?

 

Also loved the Gaelic singing. So very beautiful.

 

Seeing as some kids appeared to have survived the Black Kirk, how come Claire is the first one to figure out they should leave the plants alone?

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Why would Claire want to travel to the Middle Ages? To be most certainly burnt as a witch?

 

 

I don't recall exactly what she said, but I don't think she said that she wanted to travel to the Middle Ages, rather that she's afraid she'd end up there, i.e, that this whole time traveling thing is not something she knows how to control ... obviously.

 

Seeing as some kids appeared to have survived the Black Kirk, how come Claire is the first one to figure out they should leave the plants alone?

 

 

Well, considering how highly superstitious these people are and how much religion and faith is used to explain so much, I'm guessing any child that did survive the Black Kirk was viewed as being favored by God or saved by him or the priest took credit for scaring away the demons. However, I'm also surmising that children that successfully got away with playing there didn't necessarily let their parents know.

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Seeing as some kids appeared to have survived the Black Kirk, how come Claire is the first one to figure out they should leave the plants alone?

 

 

Well, considering how highly superstitious these people are and how much religion and faith is used to explain so much, I'm guessing any child that did survive the Black Kirk was viewed as being favored by God or saved by him or the priest took credit for scaring away the demons. However, I'm also surmising that children that successfully got away with playing there didn't necessarily let their parents know.

From the convo between Claire and Jamie, he says of his own experience, if he and his friends were lucky they might find the wood garlic or berries to eat, so the plants might not be available at all times of the year when boys would go to the Black Kirk.  Also, if both wood garlic and lily of the valley were growing there, it might have been luck, good or bad, that some boys would eat the poison and the others wouldn't.  He also said his own cousin was sick for a week while we can assume he (Jamie) apparently wasn't.  I would pose the question to the botanists here, if someone eats lily of the valley could they recover from the poison? 

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I have to smile at your discussion on the correct plant used in the show. That's such an internet thing to do. But if this is the biggest problem one finds with the show, you have a pretty good show on your hand. As others have pointed out, in the end it's quite a expectable error for a tv show where you often have to take the "look" and "feel" of something more into consideration than it being 100% correct. After all films and series also cut out all the awkward pauses in usual conversations as those would be really boring :)

 

What irks me personally about Claire is not that she's a Mary Sue, which she is definitely not. It looks like it to a degree since she has knowledge on anything relevant at the time. But this doesn't come out of nowhere, rather everything is shown to come from her former life. What makes the thing strange is that it seems quite random that exactly the person with those experiences and interests gets transported back in time that will help her there rather than say an electrician. Of course that is what makes the story interesting so it's not a problem, it's more of a wink that it is a fictional story that I just can't lose compared to say a wholly historical show like the Borgias (I know how ironic that is because both Borgia shows have wild historical inaccuracies included while this here is probably better in all the details).

 

I'm not sure why a priest would insult members of his parrish after such a traumatic experience from them. That's not very priest-like for me. They did say he's a mysoginist, but still it seems like poor social skills right there.

 

I'm intrigued by Geilis (?), she seems like an interesting character that rightfully wants to know more about Claire. Having her be a time traveller would feel wrong nonetheless (=how many more? viewers then start to ask).

 

I still have no ideas on the names and am rather afraid to write them in here :)

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I enjoy the show. I just wanted to say that my heart sank when Jamie was making out with Laoghaire.  Way to take advantage of a young girl, arsehole. He's still sexy, so I hope to see more of him and his kilts, but I no longer want him and Claire to become a "thing" the way I used to.  What a disappointment. 

I totally agree and am so glad to see I'm not alone. It was not his most shining moment.  I couldn't believe it. He was so indifferent and borderline dismissive of her when Claire was trying to get him to be basically polite. And now this? How is Laoghaire supposed to react? He's such an adolescent. Boasting to Claire about knowing Greek :rolleyes:

 

He's likeable but I can't take him seriously.  I felt from the first episode that he was more in Laoghaire's league than Claire's. I hope Claire turns out to be a passing infatuation for him and that he becomes a comrade but not a lover. And I also hope he falls madly in love with Laoghaire and goes crawling up to her on his knees.

 

 I think he's more like an annoying pesky younger brother than a lover.  That footsie scene was just stupid IMO.

 

Plus isn't there a possible complication if Claire and he hook up? He could turn out to be her great great great (great to the power of 10 or 15) grandfather.

Edited by nyxy
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Having one other person be a time traveler isn't everyone being a time traveler. So I wouldn't mind there being another one, Claire can't be the only one that happened to touch the stones if there's a song written about it. It's obviously a folklore that's been passed down.  As for ending up in the 1740's, maybe it's a time tunnel that only goes to two times, 1740's Scotland and 1940's Scotland. 

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Well, no, since there's already a song about it, as you said. It seemed to me like it was a known song, rather than something new, just performed. Just going to/from 1940s seems to specific to me. Since the stones seem pretty old, -/+ 200 years is a simpler answer. 

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I've thought from the beginning that Claire is unlikely to be the only one... but I never made the connection to the song- which does reinforce the theory, I agree. Great catch! 

 

I also wondered if someone has crossed in the other direction. I hope they go back to  the 20th century; I'll be watching those 20th century characters with this new question in mind.

 

I agree with Sakura and others that  Gheille too might have stepped across time.  That might explain that knowing way she has about her...she's obviously testing Claire (or baiting her)....

 

Figuring out who else has crossed across seems so much more interesting to me than the romance. I can't wait to find out.

Edited by nyxy
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Yeah, you're right + or - 200 years works better. I just think it's entirely possible for more than one person to have also traveled in time via the stones. The song tells me it is possible. So I wouldn't mind meeting another. 

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  I would pose the question to the botanists here, if someone eats lily of the valley could they recover from the poison? 

Yes.

Of course it would depend on the amount ingested and the size of the person/animal, but yes, one could survive.

I have a huge colony of it growing in my yard and don't fear it at all- the flowers are heavenly. My dogs show absolutely no interest in it, but then they are taught to not eat my plants  :)

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So it'll be fascinating if several people have crossed.

 

Oh Geilis you adorable sociopath. You were my favourite person in this episode.

 

I didn't like this episode as much as the previous two, Geilis scenes not included. I think there was too much talk and not enough balance between the characters. I feel like they want to have all the characters there all the time but sometimes that doesn't work. As much as I like Frank Randall, the war memories could have been saved for another episode.

 

Why would Claire want to travel to the Middle Ages? To be most certainly burnt as a witch?

 

Also loved the Gaelic singing. So very beautiful.

 

Seeing as some kids appeared to have survived the Black Kirk, how come Claire is the first one to figure out they should leave the plants alone?

 

LOL at your description of Geillis. She is fabulous. In Frank's absence she's the one I'm most focused on after Claire. Though Dougal is also beginning to emerge from the shadows.

The singing was lovely.

 

And like you I didn't like this epi as much as the other two (while still loving it- just not as much as the other two).  But for a different reason. I'm always happy to see Frank, but for me the Jaime-Claire thing is a big yawn. I wish they would get a room and get it over with so the story can focus on something else. I want to know more about the Laird's wife and his son. Hope they get to that in the next episode. The romance is boring the crap out of me....though I realize I'm in the minority on this!

.

Edited by nyxy
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From the song, it sounded like they traveled to the past first, then "back to the future." Sorry. Because the singer said, "a faraway land," or something like that. I would think if they went from 1600s/1800s or 1700/1900, they would have flipped the fuck out and had a stroke with all the differences. 

 

Obviously, the 1500s are a lot different than the 1700s, but if you're from 1700 it's not a huge deal. They were still all talking gaelic probably, maybe harder to understand. People were still farming, etc. So I'd think the first move is -200 from your origin point then return. I supposed the question is, do you return when you left or + the elapsed time spent in the past. 

 

I'm assuming the show isn't going to get into this much depth, but they did sing an entire song about it, so they probably wanted us to at least think about it a little. 

Actually, I didn't even think Claire was going to return to the 1940s. I thought it was about her new life in the past. (I don't want to be spoiled about it either please.)

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I can't say more than was already said ... so I will just say this ...

 

I want to live in Scotland and have my very own Jamie.

 

He is very easy on the eye and at 34, around the age I like hehe :p

 

I fully endorse the casting of Tim McInerney as the priest. He's such a delicious baddie. (Didn't he used to do silly sitcoms? Good career change!)

 

Blackadder is silly (in the best possible way), but it is also a classic, much beloved British sitcom and TM shall always be Lord Percy to me ;)

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Yes, I saw her back story and I still find it ridiculous.  Not only did she call the plant by the wrong name, but she knew what it was immediately.  She also knew the cure using 18th century methods.  So, yup, it bugged.

Would you find it weird for a herpetologist (even a hobbyist one) to correctly identify a certain snake and also have knowledge of it's danger and treatment of a venomous bite?  Because that's what this adds up to.  She's an amateur botanist.  That's the whole reason she returned to the stones because there was a certain plant up there that she wanted to get a better look at.  On top of that she grew up in various primitive areas where she likely would have encountered the notion of natural remedies to common health issues.  Plus her guardian was an archeologist and presumably some of his work would have naturally sunk in here and there.  Then her husband was a historian and all of his talk about his work would have sunk in a bit.  To top it all off, she's a nurse with training that would have included being able to quickly identify certain ailments to the body.  For example, identifying a possible case of poisoning rather than a simple case of constipation.  

 

In any case, we wouldn't even need all this extra stuff about her background.  The fact that she's an amateur botanist is enough to tell us how she could identify a plant, understand that it's poisonous and have an idea of how to counteract the effects.  After all, it would be completely unbelievable if an amateur herpetologist went off on a snake watch without understanding the very basics about the creatures she is monitoring and not taking precautions against an accidental bite. 

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Did anyone catch what exactly Dougal said to Claire right when the musical evening began? All that I could tell: he thanked her for making his brother feel better. Then he said something along the lines of the filly they'd picked up not being such a bad bargain after all. To which she said "charming description" or something. I gathered from this that he was being exceptionally crude.

 

Their encounters in the next episode made me curious about what exactly went down in this scene.

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Did anyone catch what exactly Dougal said to Claire right when the musical evening began? All that I could tell: he thanked her for making his brother feel better. Then he said something along the lines of the filly they'd picked up not being such a bad bargain after all. To which she said "charming description" or something. I gathered from this that he was being exceptionally crude.

 

Their encounters in the next episode made me curious about what exactly went down in this scene.

I can't remember what exactly he said but I'm pretty sure it was something about the "feral cat" they picked up, and her acting tame now? Sheathing her claws? Something along those lines.

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Thanks so much, thingamajig! That sounds right and I'm sure what I thought was "filly" was actually "feral cat"- & the latter is even nastier. Really he's acting like a 12 year old with a crush on a girl- trying to rile her!

Edited by nyxy
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Dougal: My brother looks very well tonight- says it's down to you and your healing touch.

Claire: I'm glad I could be of service

Dougal: Aye. It seems that the feral cat we picked up on the road is trying to pull in her claws.

Claire: Charming description.

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I can't say more than was already said ... so I will just say this ...

 

I want to live in Scotland and have my very own Jamie.

 

So do I, BizBuzz, so do I. Maybe we can clone him - one for each of us. *swoon*. The unbuttoning of Jamie's shirt and collar - *drops dead on floor*

 

That said, man Jamie and Claire have amazing chemistry together. The way he looks at her - so expressive and so seemingly in love/infatuation. And Claire too. I know some have commented on the inappropriateness but I don't really see it. First, she is used to having soldiers around her and is obviously at ease. Second, Jamie gives her a sense of security and companionship. She is alone in the 18th century and Jamie is nice and protective of her. Third, she is married but not dead. Who wouldn't be flattered by the attention of a sexy sexy man. Fourth, it's gives us a nice contrast between how the 18th century people "behave" and a more modern woman behaves.

 

Fast episode - enjoyed it. That priest, how I wanted to smack him. And yes, he will be a problem for Claire. How convenient that it's always God's will for the priest, but when he is personally slighted, of course it's the devil. Prideful evil man.

 

Claire's meddling is going to backfire on her very soon though. She needs to stay out of things, remain unseen, plan her escape covertly.

 

My stomach literally turned when that poor boy had his ear nailed. God, I couldn't watch that. At least he kept his hand. Geillis being nonchalant I can see, but Claire calmly sipping brandy whilst the poor boy was suffering - that was out of character to me.

 

Jamie and Claire do work together really well. I really like his character actually. They both are really good together. Looking forward to the next episode.

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Ha, I love that Claire's default is to stick her nose in, even if she knows it's a terrible idea to get involved. First with Jamie's shoulder and now with two little kids. She just can't help herself! As much as I admire her for wanting to do the right thing, I wish she had a little bit more self preservation in her to avoid calling attention to herself. She keeps forgetting that women were treated differently two hundred years ago and that things in general were different (see: creepy misogynist priest - although I know you could argue that there are still plenty of creepy misogynists in 2014 too).

 

Giulia Farnese definitely gives off the loose cannon vibe so I'm not sure if she is just a crazy shit stirrer who enjoys causing trouble or if she is another time traveler like Claire. Based on the song, Claire isn't the only one who this has happened to (unless she does indeed go back another two hundred years to the 1500s, tells someone her story, and the song is actually about her), so I would be fine with Geillis being another traveler. If anything, it might explain her wackiness. Being trapped in another time might be enough to drive someone batty.

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I'm actually really starting to get into this. But I have to say, I'm really not seeing any sexual tension between Claire and Jamie. Maybe it's because I think it's odd that anyone finds Sam Heughan attractive. 

 

Love Mrs Fitz. 

 

Gellis could be another traveller, her accent certainly isn't a Highland accent, she does seem a little different from the locals. 

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I'm actually really starting to get into this. But I have to say, I'm really not seeing any sexual tension between Claire and Jamie. Maybe it's because I think it's odd that anyone finds Sam Heughan attractive. 

 

I would say that about the guy who plays Geillis' husband. Sam Heughan, on the other hand, while there are other men who I find more attractive, I don't think it's odd that anyone finds him attractive. ;)

Edited by ulkis
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I'm glad Claire realised that just getting back to the stones might not be enough, but could (possibly) send her further back in time. Nice use of the song as a means for providing exposition, though. And I'm so glad that opening spiel was just an "imagine spot": it's such a cliché for people to go, "This is going to sound crazy, but..." and then act surprised when people think they're crazy. Maybe try to think of a way to make it NOT sound crazy (or at least, less crazy) instead?

On ‎24‎/‎08‎/‎2014 at 10:44 AM, Ariah said:

Claire, Gaellis is onto you! Better be careful what you're letting others see.

I get that she's a modern woman and pissed with 18th Century values, but I'd worry more about what the priest might do if she thinks she's in league with the devil. Gaellis is probably considered "almost a witch" herself, so is less likely to be a threat.

On ‎24‎/‎08‎/‎2014 at 5:39 PM, annlaw78 said:

Germany was currently part of the Prussian Empire, but the concept of "Germany" and "Germans" had been around a long time.

Well, Germany (at this period, the Holy Roman Empire) was more an extension of the Austrian Empire, Prussia was certainly a major power, but definitely junior to the Austrians (the Holy Roman Emperor was in theory an elected position that any Christian Prince could apply for, but the only time they didn't choose the Austrian ruler was when that was Queen Maria Theresa). The Prussians would in any case be an unlikely choice to establish a monastery in the Catholic Highlands as they were Protestant (archetypally so) - Bavarians or Bohemians would be more likely. But Germany was, if not an unknown concept, certainly not one that was commonly bandied about. 

On ‎24‎/‎08‎/‎2014 at 11:33 AM, Petunia846 said:

Also, I agree, that if we're going to have nudity, I can think of someone else I'd nominated first.

Hey - equal opportunities for all! #MoreNakedUggos!

On ‎26‎/‎08‎/‎2014 at 1:42 AM, rozen said:

Pretty sure England was pretty loose with the limb chopping in those days, way to blow your cover yet again.

Not really - mutilation as punishment was mostly abolished by the time the Stuarts came in (around 1600). The English had no problems with executing people for (what we would consider) very minor offences, though - generally hanging.

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I'm not too keen on Claire deciding to escape at the end of the episode.  That can't end well.  

I did like that this episode explored the culture shock in regards to ailments, superstitions and justice/punishments.  It was easy to root Claire on to save the sick boy and the punished boy.  

I don't see Claire as leading Jamie on.  In her mind, she was just missing her husband.  Surrounded by so many possible enemies, she felt she could put her guard down a little bit more with him.  Heck, she was even considering telling Mrs. Fitz about where she came from... clearly, she's feeling quite lonely.  I like Gaellis and Claire having a female friend her age, but I agree that maybe she isn't as trustworthy as she seems.

That priest scares me.  If they had cured the boy while he was out, would he have just given himself credit for curing the boy or would he still think the boy was possessed?

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On 10/05/2018 at 5:01 PM, toolazy said:

What does that even mean?

it's not very appealing on the plot/story side, and that the show is very impossibly "pretty" as in princessy, damsel in distress like. it's clear that no matter where the story goes it's just sex on TV.

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16 hours ago, Iju said:

it's not very appealing on the plot/story side, and that the show is very impossibly "pretty" as in princessy, damsel in distress like. it's clear that no matter where the story goes it's just sex on TV.

It's definitely not for everyone but it's also possible to express dislike for a show without insulting the people who do like the show.  

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7 hours ago, toolazy said:

It's definitely not for everyone but it's also possible to express dislike for a show without insulting the people who do like the show.  

i'm not insulting anyone, in fact i was talking about myself if i was insulting anyone. so i apologize if there are any hard feelings. i'm not necessarily insulting the show either, considering i'm still watching it rn. i was just viewing it in an objective way of what others would have thought of it. but i'm liking it so far :)

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10 hours ago, Iju said:

i'm not insulting anyone, in fact i was talking about myself if i was insulting anyone. so i apologize if there are any hard feelings. i'm not necessarily insulting the show either, considering i'm still watching it rn. i was just viewing it in an objective way of what others would have thought of it. but i'm liking it so far :)

Groovy.  Sorry if I misunderstood. As much as I love the show, I don't always like to admit it because folks have preconceived notions of what Outlander fans are like.  

 

On 4/18/2015 at 3:09 PM, jaytee1812 said:

 

Gellis could be another traveller, her accent certainly isn't a Highland accent, she does seem a little different from the locals. 

That's probably just because the actress - Lotte Verbeek - is actually Dutch in real life so any accent weirdnesses are probably a result of that. 

Edited by toolazy
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On 5/17/2018 at 1:03 AM, Iju said:

it's not very appealing on the plot/story side, and that the show is very impossibly "pretty" as in princessy, damsel in distress like. it's clear that no matter where the story goes it's just sex on TV.

Are you watching this for the first time?  Right now they are still very much setting up the plot and the characters.  The real story has not really started yet.  I think if you give this a chance, you'll find your statement to be very, very far from the truth.

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On 21/05/2018 at 5:19 PM, Ziggy said:

Are you watching this for the first time?  Right now they are still very much setting up the plot and the characters.  The real story has not really started yet.  I think if you give this a chance, you'll find your statement to be very, very far from the truth.

actually i just finished the first season and i still stick by what i predicted, lol. sorry if it offends anyone though. it's not that i don't like the show though, as i said before. the characters are pretty appealing and all. but who knows, maybe the future seasons will change my mind ;)

On 18/05/2018 at 12:40 PM, toolazy said:

Groovy.  Sorry if I misunderstood. As much as I love the show, I don't always like to admit it because folks have preconceived notions of what Outlander fans are like.  

no, it's fine^^

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Just started watching this on Netflix, so I'm hoping other newer viewers will help reactivate S1 and S2 thread discussions...

One element missing from Claire's escape plan was not knowing more about the legend & song.  Yes, she had parts of the song translated to her, enough for her to realize it was about the same rock she touched.  But, I would think she'd want to hear the full story/song.  What if there was some important detail, like you had to click your heels 3 times and say "there's no place like home" before touching the rock to bring you back to your original time.  I expected her to do a bit more research, ask Mrs. Fitz or Jamie to tell her the full legend, etc.

I'm not sure Geillis is another time traveler, but she certainly knows about it.  My guess is that someone close to her was a time traveler - maybe her mother, maybe she knows whoever started the legend/wrote the song.  If Geillis were a time traveler, it would be easy enough for her to test Claire.  If it were me, I'd simply keep name dropping important figures or cultural references from every 25 years or so until I got a reaction.  Say something like, "well you're a regular Florence Nightingale, aren't you?"  Or start humming songs that hadn't been written yet to see if she hums along. 

I also thought Claire was smart enough to know how to handle the priest better than she did.  She's totally set herself up to be accused of being a witch.  Give the priest an out - ok, the boys weren't demonically possessed, but maybe suggest that the devil lured them to the poisonous plant in the first place, so the priest could still call the devil out.  She had enough time to think of something.

All that aside, I'm really enjoying this series.  It's beautifully done. 

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Ah, okay, even as this episode opens with the train track scene, Claire seems to have a fire within her that I didn’t see in E01 with Frank. After the war she seems resigned to a life unfulfilled yet going to the front to nurse soldiers at the onset of the war she seems like a more wholly formed person, if that makes sense. Of course Frank wants to curry favor with his higher ups to get her a post near him and out of harms way, where of course she cannot use her nursing skills or be useful. It really is FrankWorld and only Frank can do interesting and meaningful things, Claire is a pretty ornament in his world. “I should be leaving for the front lines...” Yes Frank, you should be...but you are a pussy and you couldn’t handle it the way your wife can. I do keep thinking as the train pulls out of the station, “Girl, get your head out of the window or you’ll be home sooner than you think as a headless woman.” Another ‘pick up the damn scarf’ moment!

I found it odd at first that Claire is so hellbent on getting back to Frank because they just don’t seem like this epic love story, and then I thought, it’s not Frank per se that she is wanting to get back to, it’s just her life in the 1940s, as opposed to being stuck in the 1740s. I still don’t think Frank is The One for her.

When Claire was massaging Colum’s back it was such a comfortable scene, like she had always been there and was almost from there. It left me feeling that if she plays her cards right Colum could be a protector...In fact, if she hadn’t mouthed off at Dougal about leaving with the Tinker, she probably could have gotten away, but it was not meant to be, and that is, to me, the crux of everything right now. I’m starting to get the feeling that everything is happening for a reason and Claire’s time travel isn’t a coincidence or an accident or a freak event, it was planned to always be this way, in this time, with these people...but why is the question I’m left with. I have a feeling that question isn’t answered for many seasons though!

In the Hall, waiting for the concert, Dougal is such a dick with his ‘feral cat’ comment, and yet I like him anyway. Why? I have no idea. Maybe I’m shallow and it’s just because he is very handsome (don’t worry, I’d choose Jaime if it ever came to that, I’m not that daft!) or what, but there is a deeper story to him and I hope we see some of that story sooner rather than later. Cold and steely gets stale after awhile, just ask Grey Worm...

When Jaime walks Claire back to the surgery, and he speaks of not wanting Alec to see his scars because it’s ‘a bit personal’ but he doesn’t mind Claire seeing it because she doesn’t make him feel pitiful about it, and THAT right there is The Moment. They are both all in now. She is weak kneed when he walks away, Frank who??? Yes, this is where it’s clear to me that any future whining about getting back to Frank is merely about leaving this time period, not getting back to windbag Frank, he of the tightly wound ego.

I cannot keep track of Claire’s minders but the two of them are such needed levity in sometimes very subtle ways!

Geillis looks very witchy when Claire talks to her about the sick boy. When she asks if Claire has ever found herself in a situation with no ‘earthly’ explanation my spidey senses are immediately awakened. Something is up with girlfriend and I don’t trust her. 

That priest is a creepster and that’s all I’ll say about that. My guess is he’ll try to get folks to think Claire is a witch, she better beware of him. And after Geillis confirms he’s a sadist, I fear he’s a shit stirrer as well.

I cant tell if Murtagh is suggesting that Jaime needs a woman like Claire, or just a someone other than Leery (and yes I know that’s not how to spell her name, but I am very leery of Leery so ‘Leery’ she is), and he doesn’t want Jamie being forced it marry Leery because Claire is spilling the beans about more of Leery’s loose behavior, this time with Jaime. And why is Murtagh so concerned about Jaime...Is he Jaime’s father unbeknownst to Jamie? Are they related or just good friends? I can’t tell yet.

Geillis...all her innuendos lead to one road - she is a time traveler herself OR she knows of it, believes in it, and/or knows others like Claire. She seems positively pissed off when Jaime arrives to take Claire home, this cutting off Claire having to answer her about her past, and when she witnesses Claire and Jamie help the boy at the pillory, her thought bubble seems to say, “Claire Beauchamp is clever, wiley, and has secrets...” Dangerous thoughts for someone who seems to be more witch than healer.

I would very much like to ‘caper about’! I wonder what criteria one uses to be able to say one has capered about?! So Jaime had a tutor, that seems like he was more highborn than he appears now, and I am left wondering what his childhood was like and if we will get to see it. He has layers and I very much like that. Sort of like a glorious onion that I would cry tears of joy to have the pleasure of unpeeling...*did I just say that outloud?!?*

The lyrics of the folk tune stunned me and gave me goosebumps...but then I hoped that the tune was not true because I really don’t want her to return to Frank, like, ever. I am all in with Jaime now. That happened fast! Like GoT, there is so much packed into one episode that one cannot possibly remember all of one go, so I’m sure I shall have other thoughts once my comrades fall through the Stones here. Until then, I shall take a rather long draught of Rhenish wine (or is it Rheinish?) and continue forth...onward!

ETA: I cannot believe I forgot this, my heart sank when Claire saw Jaime making out with Leery, just...NO! I am way too invested in this couple already...

Edited by gingerella
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9 hours ago, gingerella said:

Claire seems to have a fire within her that I didn’t see in E01 with Frank. After the war she seems resigned to a life unfulfilled yet going to the front to nurse soldiers at the onset of the war she seems like a more wholly formed person, if that makes sense. Of course Frank wants to curry favor with his higher ups to get her a post near him and out of harms way, where of course she cannot use her nursing skills or be useful. It really is FrankWorld and only Frank can do interesting and meaningful things, Claire is a pretty ornament in his world. “I should be leaving for the front lines...” Yes Frank, you should be...but you are a pussy and you couldn’t handle it the way your wife can.

TRUTH!!!! (I wish I could make this font bigger, but please know that I actually yelled this out loud.  Good thing I'm still working from home.)

 

9 hours ago, gingerella said:

I’m starting to get the feeling that everything is happening for a reason and Claire’s time travel isn’t a coincidence or an accident or a freak event, it was planned to always be this way, in this time, with these people...but why is the question I’m left with.

A lot of people analyze the time travel aspect of this show.  That's not why I'm here, so I tend to gloss over it. But, is the bard's song really about Claire?  Is time a continuous loop? Was it the ghost in the square from Episode 1 that called her back in time?

 

9 hours ago, gingerella said:

THAT right there is The Moment. They are both all in now.

Oh, hell yes. (Again, yelling...probably unnecessarily, but eh?)

 

9 hours ago, gingerella said:

And why is Murtagh so concerned about Jaime...Is he Jaime’s father unbeknownst to Jamie? Are they related or just good friends? I can’t tell yet.

They do have a close bond, and more than anyone else at Leoch, he truly cares about Jamie as though Jamie is his son.  I think his comment was one out of concern because he knows Jamie's history, particularly his most recent history of being a wanted man.  He knows that Jamie cannot pair with some flighty young girl, because it is likely to get them both killed.  Further, he would know about Jamie's upbringing and the various political currents in which Jamie is operating.  The match for Jamie has implications around more than just love.  

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1 hour ago, SassAndSnacks said:

 

 

A lot of people analyze the time travel aspect of this show.  That's not why I'm here, so I tend to gloss over it. But, is the bard's song really about Claire?  Is time a continuous loop? Was it the ghost in the square from Episode 1 that called her back in time?

 

 

 

 

This, all this! Claire is not there by accident in my mind! 

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  2 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

A lot of people analyze the time travel aspect of this show.  That's not why I'm here, so I tend to gloss over it. But, is the bard's song really about Claire?  Is time a continuous loop? Was it the ghost in the square from Episode 1 that called her back in time?

This, all this! Claire is not there by accident in my mind! 

Yes, I also am not a hair-splitter of Time Travel stories, I'm not here for the time travel aspects per se, I'm here for The Story, because it has already swept me up in its current and I'm one moment floating along a lazy river enjoying the ride, the next paddling furiously against the current to understand where I'm being taken to...sort of like Claire but alas without a Jaime...;)

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On 3/9/2021 at 11:54 PM, gingerella said:

I found it odd at first that Claire is so hellbent on getting back to Frank because they just don’t seem like this epic love story, and then I thought, it’s not Frank per se that she is wanting to get back to, it’s just her life in the 1940s, as opposed to being stuck in the 1740s.

Yes. I relate it to the sensation she described during the car accident. I've noticed—with myself, but also in others—that a trauma that big our first reaction is to want it to be over. To deny that anything that might be life changing has happened. To insist on getting—to the doctor, the store, the friend, the responsibility—on with life as it was before.  It makes a lot of sense emotionally.

 

On 3/9/2021 at 11:54 PM, gingerella said:

When Jaime walks Claire back to the surgery, and he speaks of not wanting Alec to see his scars because it’s ‘a bit personal’ but he doesn’t mind Claire seeing it because she doesn’t make him feel pitiful about it, and THAT right there is The Moment. They are both all in now.

It seems he was all in when he first met her in story—and possibly before.  Pretty sure that was him that Frank encountered in the street in the 1940s. He seems to know where to find her.  I can't help but wonder if he's been bouncing around time even before we became aware of the phenomenon?

 

On 3/9/2021 at 11:54 PM, gingerella said:

That priest is a creepster and that’s all I’ll say about that. My guess is he’ll try to get folks to think Claire is a witch, she better beware of him. And after Geillis confirms he’s a sadist, I fear he’s a shit stirrer as well.

Too right. I know the actor from many other shows. But not portraying the malevolence he's flaunting here. The hairs on my neck were standing on end. Good Job!

On 3/9/2021 at 11:54 PM, gingerella said:

And why is Murtagh so concerned about Jaime...Is he Jaime’s father unbeknownst to Jamie? Are they related or just good friends?

 

15 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

I think his comment was one out of concern because he knows Jamie's history, particularly his most recent history of being a wanted man.  He knows that Jamie cannot pair with some flighty young girl, because it is likely to get them both killed.  Further, he would know about Jamie's upbringing and the various political currents in which Jamie is operating.

THIS! Inquiring minds want to know! They clearly know each other well, and Murtagh does seem to act like a father figure/ protector. Probably the only man Jamie can trust completely.  I need some backstory here. Sooner rather than later... please show.

On 3/9/2021 at 11:54 PM, gingerella said:

The lyrics of the folk tune stunned me and gave me goosebumps...

I just realized that it is the opening credits tune—but with the verses added. Seems to me that it is about Claire. Sorry Ging.

15 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

But, is the bard's song really about Claire?  Is time a continuous loop? Was it the ghost in the square from Episode 1 that called her back in time?

Definitely excellent questions from where I stand. Don't think it will be possible to separate the "story" from the time travel. 

 

On a different point—the waking-dream of confiding in Mrs Fitz and being accused of being a witch—THAT freaked me out. Let's hope she remembers the need to keep her cards close to her chest. She can't go round assuming nice folks will be accepting of her experience.

I did, however, like the forensic search at the site of the demonic possession (the Black Kirk).  Another instance of Jamie completely accepting Claire.

 

 

Edited by Anothermi
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9 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Yes. I relate it to the sensation she described during the car accident. I've noticed—with myself, but also in others—that a trauma that big our first reaction is to want it to be over. To deny that anything that might be life changing has happened. To insist on getting—to the doctor, the store, the friend, the responsibility—on with life as it was before.  It makes a lot of sense emotionally.

You put this so much better than I @Anothermi, this is perfect. It's sort of like a form of PTSD, get on with the everyday normalcy of 'before' the event, so you almost pretend it never happened and thus don't have to deal with it. But it will percolate under the surface until it forces you to deal with it. I mean, if this happened to me, I'd likely want to go back to my previous life because it's familiar, I know how to navigate it, etc. But let's say I was in a shitty relationship, would I still want to go back? Assuming it was not an abusive relationship, I might still want to go back because as you said, I can just deny this crazy, unexplainable event even happened. It's not like she could tell anyone in either world what actually happened to her right now because who would believe her? And she herself might be wondering, is this all a dream?!? Oh, speaking of that, this BETTER NOT be a drawn out dream story or A Viewer shall be pissethed off.

9 hours ago, Anothermi said:

It seems he was all in when he first met her in story—and possibly before.  Pretty sure that was him that Frank encountered in the street in the 1940s. He seems to know where to find her.  I can't help but wonder if he's been bouncing around time even before we became aware of the phenomenon?

See, I didn't get that vibe from him when they were at the hide out and she first came in, he didn't even turn to really look at her even though the others were gawking. And when he did interact with her as she tended his wound, he seemed almost shy and embarrassed. So wait, maybe he did 'know' her already? Maybe they've been going back and forth in time, trying to be with one another for eons...we shall see...Oh, and FYI, I did not make the connection between Jaime and the man Frank encountered in the street until a later episode, so I'll save my thoughts on that for then...

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