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Athena

S01.E03: The Way Out

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Jamie helps Claire tend to a sickly child; a story told during an evening's entertainment gives Claire hope for her freedom.

 

As always, please avoid book discussions in the episode topics. Thanks.

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Great episode, lots to take in. Will have to watch again with closed captioning on.

The looks Jamie gives Claire,... Lordy. He is so perfect for the part.

I get the feeling Claire has not heard the last of that priest.

I loved how there was funny parts and sad parts.

Hated seeing Jamie kiss that....... Person I dislike.

Edited by ihartcoffee
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There was too little of Jamie in this episode, I thought, and it took too long for him to show up.  He's my favorite, so more Jamie automatically makes the episode better.

 

Poor Caitriona Balfe...having to give that guy a massage while he was naked from the waist down.  How awkward.

 

It seems as if stubbornness in a woman must be a very attractive trait.  Frank loved the stubbornness and Jamie seems amused by it as well.

 

I find Angus quite funny.  Poor guy, having to chase after Geillis and Claire.  "This just keeps getting worse."  Ha!

 

Those were some interesting red shoes that Geillis was sporting.  I'm not sure what to think about her.  I got a bad vibe when she was super curious about learning of Claire's upbringing.  Are you a spy, Geillis??  I'm glad that Jamie caught on quickly and devised an excuse to get Claire out of there.

 

Jamie and Claire make a good team.  I just love everything about them.  I liked the way that they worked together to help the little boy whose ear was nailed to the post.  I liked how Jamie pretended that his dressing was chaffing so that he could walk Claire back to the surgery or whatever he called it.  I liked how Laoghaire basically didn't exist because Jamie was too busy being wrapped up in speaking with Claire.  I didn't like how Jamie was making out with Laoghaire, but I figure that it may have had something to do with the fact that the last time he saw Claire, she was unbuttoning his shirt to check his bullet wound.  I think that the tension was getting to him...he needed a release.

 

I really feel that a lot of Claire's voice-overs are unnecessary.  The voice-over when she was trying to save the poisoned boy could have been replaced with a scene of her telling Jamie that she had a possible cure but it could kill the boy if she was wrong about what poisoned him. 

 

Finally, I thought that it was adorable that Jamie told Claire that he almost reinjured his hand while waving to her at the very end.  "Over here.  Didn't you see me waving?"  He's so smitten with her.

 

 

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Well I loved just about everything about that episode.

 

The Good:

 

- Mrs Fitz did NOT accuse Claire of being a witch.  Those were just dark imaginings by Claire.  I now take back every negative thing I said about Mrs. Fitz last week.  I blame the wicked, tricksy, false preview for my mistaken impression of her.

 

 - The scene in the surgery.  Whoo boy!  The UST (unresolved sexual tension) was just off the chart.  Damn, the look on Jamie's face when Claire unbuttoned his collar was just . . . smoldering.

 

 - I can't believe I'm going to say this but . . . poor Laoghaire.  Jamie's indifference during the first scene with the singer was just brutal.  But it was a great scene and led to an even better one (see above.)

 

 - They included the post-kiss scene with Claire teasing Jamie and footsie combat under the table.  Yay!  Oh thank you to TPTB (the powers that be).  That's one of my favorite scenes in the book.

 

 - The scene in the ruins of the Kirk, on the other hand, is not in the book (unless my memory is faulty) and yet I thought it was an excellent addition.  It gave Claire an opportunity to show off her diagnostic skills, we learned some important information about Jamie (he's an educated man) and it was just flat-out gorgeous scenery.  I can't wait to hear Ron's pod-cast to find out where it was filmed.

 

 - Congrats to the writers for finding ways to keep reminding us that Claire misses Frank.  The flashforwardback (TM someone more clever than me) that started the episode was terrific, especially as it ended with her promise to come back.  That, coupled with  Claire's musing about the folk tale and its parallels to her situation at the end of the show (complete with her imagining being reunited with Frank) nicely book-ends the episode.

 

 - Lotte continues to impress in the role of Geillis.  Her guile in handling her husband was masterful (Claire could learn a thing or two) and her rather insistent curiosity about Claire's background amps up the tension a notch.  And the red shoes were FABULOUS!

 

- Mrs. Fitz.  Yay for standing up to the priest.  Forgive me for doubting you.

 

The Bad:

 

 - Oh Mrs. Fitz -- labeling Claire as a "miracle worker" was not a kindness.  The priest is already angry.  When he hears that he's really going to have it in for Claire.  And now Colum's even less likely to want to let her go.

 

 - Didn't care for the scene with the tailor.  Note sure why it was necessary.  

 

The Ugly

 

 - Fart humor.  Sigh.  Must we go there?

 

 - If we're going to have a man's bare ass in the show there are several I'd rather see than Colum's.

Edited by WatchrTina
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Not enough Rupert.

 

Also, I am going to hell before Claire because all I could think during her scene with Mrs. Fitz was that now she's done the ALS challenge, it would be nice if she could do some nominating--Jamie and Dougal would be a good start.  And Rupert.

Edited by some1105
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So glad that bit with Mrs Fitz turned out to be exposition by way of Claire's musings on how precarious the situation is if anyone knew her real history.  I also liked the introduction of conflict with the priest, since he would be someone with a lot of influence that she doesn't want against her.  Too late for that!  More tensions and danger ahead.

 

I liked that Colum seems to be welcoming her healing skills and that he trusted her to tend to his ailments, but as a woman in that time, would he have been so fast to expect her to actually give him massages?  I just think it seemed too "modern" of a thought process for him.  I did like that in the discussion of "demons" when Colum asked if they had them in Oxford, her response was "We do. We call them Scots."  Also a pretty bold joke for her, so maybe she and Colum have actually bonded, in a way.  The bit with the tailor showed that Colum is not to be trifled with or disrespected, despite his condition.

 

I liked the way "Jesus H Roosevelt Christ" came out this time.  Maybe the actress will just do it in different inflections every time to make it fun.  Also liked "Bloody Hell!" when the water was poured over her head.

 

The merry duo of Angus and Rupert continue to entertain, drinking in the kitchens, crossing themselves every time the demons are mentioned.  Angus' whining about all her walking and then the "where are we going?" while he tries to keep up was funny.  Jamie also continues to show humor, along with the growing friendship between them, now starting to turn into attraction.  I also liked the scene at the Black Kirk where he continued to fill in more of his own history. 

 

And the meal scene.  I think Murtagh sees the bigger picture, even if others don't.  I'm glad it was his character that had that convo with her.

 

The modern scenes continue to bolster how much Claire wants to get back to Frank and more of her independent personality.

 

I'm glad they added the scene of Gellis doctoring her husband (farting aside) and asking for mercy for the boy instead of her just describing it. 

Edited by Glaze Crazy
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Jamie has got it bad. Very, very bad. He's just gone over her. He keeps trying to impress Claire- "here's where I became a man", "I speak Greek!" and bringing her cloak.

 

The guy who plays him is perfect- part of me wonders what the casting people for Game of Thrones were thinking (he auditioned about 6 times) but maybe they figured he'd be too distracting at the Wall. "Sorry, Jon Snow, what? Night's Watch Guy #6 is smoldering in the corner." etc. He's just delicious.

 

Gellis is great- I like how she mentioned that the priest thinks all women since Eve are temptresses and then ten seconds later, cajoles/ seduces her husband in to doing what she wants him to do. That's clever writing. 

 

I actually think this was my favourite episode so far. I kind of enjoyed how no one questioned why the healer fainted at the sight of blood- silly Scots. 

 

I loved the costuming- lots of knitwear, great scarves and gloves- I want to make one of those knit cowl things Claire had on. 

Edited by Pogojoco
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The guy who plays him is perfect- part of me wonders what the casting people for Game of Thrones were thinking (he auditioned about 6 times) but maybe they figured he'd be too distracting at the Wall. "Sorry, Jon Snow, what? Night's Watch Guy #6 is smoldering in the corner." etc. He's just delicious.

 

Two words: Daario Naharis.

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Claire, Gaellis is onto you! Better be carefull what you're letting others see.

 

Also, Dougal is getting into Claire's personal space. Now also personally, not only with his two lackeys (whom I'm starting to adore as comedy relief. They're both great!)

 

I liked all scenes Claire had with Jamie, especially how she invited him to sit beside herself and Laoghaire in a bit intoxicated good faith that she's helping the "young ones" get together, only for Laoghaire to feel completely ignored. As it was mentioned, Claire and Jamie make a great team, saving boys from scaffoldings and poisons. Also, I loved Claire's smile in the final scene of the episode - she was so happy she has a chance of coming back to Frank... That I'm sure she'll do soemthing stupid in the next episode.

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Well that was much better than I expected based on the previews after last week's episode. I'm relieved. This seemed like the episode that deviated the least from the book, no matter what Ron said in his little comment section. I know they obviously did change/add some things, but it didn't seem like it was changed. It worked well. I think this was my favorite episode so far.

 

Also, Sam is wonderful and all, but can I just say...Cait is absolutely amazing. She was fantastic this week, in the other two too, but this week I just marveled at her variety of expression and the way she really portrays Claire the way she's described as having that glass face that everyone can read. The whole show seems to really be settling in. In the first two episodes there were moments that took me out of the narrative either because of the acting or a change from the book that seemed odd, but this episode really kept me planted firmly in what I was watching and was just great.

 

I can't even think what would be my favorite part, but I loved the first scene with the singer with Claire and Jamie and whatshername, loved the two watchmen, dinner table footsie, the chat at the ruins, the chat in the surgery, the stuff with Geillis, pulling out the nail, I could go on...

 

The only one thing I really didn't care for was Mr. Duncan and his rather noisy problems. Even if they'd just turned the volume on that down a bit, it would have been better, but it was so loud! I was like, what is this? Some kind of sketch comedy now or something? It ruined the mysterious, tense mood that had been established so beautifully. Oh well.

 

Also, I agree, that if we're going to have nudity, I can think of someone else I'd nominated first. And, you know, I'd prefer it in a less clinical situation as well.

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So Claire was upset that she had teased Jamie because she was jealous - Jealous of Jamie and Laoghaire's intimacy... Right..whatever you have to tell yourself Claire.

 

I liked that Colum seems to be welcoming her healing skills and that he trusted her to tend to his ailments, but as a woman in that time, would he have been so fast to expect her to actually give him massages?

 

Yes this seemed odd for the time period.  I actually wondered there for a moment if Colum didn't fancy her and this was a semi awkward pass. 

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The only one thing I really didn't care for was Mr. Duncan and his rather noisy problems. Even if they'd just turned the volume on that down a bit, it would have been better, but it was so loud! I was like, what is this? Some kind of sketch comedy now or something? It ruined the mysterious, tense mood that had been established so beautifully. Oh well.

 

I didn't mind it. It thought it added a nice eighteenth century touch. And also that it was very "Outlander" but that's all I'll say about that here.

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I hope there will be an Outlander knitting magazine available, similar to the Jane Austen and Downton Abbey knitting books. Would love to make those shawls and mitts.

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I liked all scenes Claire had with Jamie, especially how she invited him to sit beside herself and Laoghaire in a bit intoxicated good faith that she's helping the "young ones" get together, only for Laoghaire to feel completely ignored. As it was mentioned, Claire and Jamie make a great team, saving boys from scaffoldings and poisons. Also, I loved Claire's smile in the final scene of the episode - she was so happy she has a chance of coming back to Frank... That I'm sure she'll do soemthing stupid in the next episode.

My only complaint is that it seems pretty clear that there's more going on between her and Jamie than just chumminess.  Certainly I think she should be able to tell that Jamie is down for more.  Even at this point, Claire's "let me check your bandages" is becoming code for him to get his kit off while they stare longingly at each other.  A little bit of sexual tension is fine, but at some point, Claire comes across as a bit disingenuous and fickle. 

 

And now that I'm done being concerned about Jamie's feelings, I have to applaud yet another almost up-kilt shot.  This show, it knows what it's doing!

Edited by annlaw78
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I had to turn the sound down during the scene where Claire "told" Mrs. Fitz her story.  So glad it was part of Claire's imaginings.  By the end of the episode she had Mrs. Fitz as a champion, and that is a much better thing.  Although praising her as a miracle worker in front of the misogynist priest wasn't the smartest thing the kind lady has done.  

 

I loved the intro with Frank and Claire at the train station.  Not only did it give us our only glimpse of Tobias Menzies for the night, but I love WW II movies. 

 

 

A little bit of sexual tension is fine, but at some point, Claire comes across as a bit disingenuous and fickle.

 

I think that is why they have to have Claire voice-over "Frank" "Frank" "FRANK!!" every few seconds, or its equivalent about her wanting to get home, as a reminder to the audience that she still loves her husband.  And I'm not sure it works when he's not on camera, and the hunky red heid in the kilt is. 

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My only complaint is that it seems pretty clear that there's more going on between her and Jamie than just chumminess.  Certainly I think she should be able to tell that Jamie is down for more.  Even at this point, Claire's "let me check your bandages" is becoming code for him to get his kit off while they stare longingly at each other.  A little bit of sexual tension is fine, but at some point, Claire comes across as a bit disingenuous and fickle. 

 

I agree with this. Even Claire inviting Jamie to sit between her and Loaghaire did not look like she was doing it so much that J and L could be together. Rather it looked like a way to get to sit by J herself without being obvious.

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I think that is why they have to have Claire voice-over "Frank" "Frank" "FRANK!!" every few seconds, or its equivalent about her wanting to get home, as a reminder to the audience that she still loves her husband.  And I'm not sure it works when he's not on camera, and the hunky red heid in the kilt is.

And that's part of the problem, for me.  I think it's totally normal for her to be a mess about missing Frank.  But then knock off the touchy-feely stuff with Jamie, and don't give him a come-hither look one moment, and then dismiss him the next.  Don't do the whole "I'm so drunk I don't know what I'm doing" thing.  There's a way to show a growing attraction to Jamie (that she is fighting against because of Frank) without making her resort to high school-level flirtation. 

 

 

I agree with this. Even Claire inviting Jamie to sit between her and Loaghaire did not look like she was doing it so much that J and L could be together. Rather it looked like a way to get to sit by J herself without being obvious.

Ditto.  I don't buy that Claire thinks of herself as an "old married woman past her sell-by date" that Jamie would have no interest in.  Jamie has made it as open as he can, back then, that he digs her.  Instead, it looks like the oldest junior high school trick in the book of, "my friend is really into you," to hide the fact that you're really into the guy, and using that as an "in" with the guy.  Which, junior high school girls, if you're reading this, never works.  Trust your Aunt Annlaw. 

 

I'm not sure if the show is trying to depict the premature aging that people back in 1740s would have had (life expectancy is shorter, harder life, bad diet, etc.), but it is odd that Mrs. Fitz and Colum are an aunt and a father of relatively young children, respectively.  People back then would be popping out kids at 16, 17 -- not 40+.  I'm surprised that Claire's mind, in seeing Dougal playing with his nephew in the last ep, would have immediately leapt to "father" and not "grandfather." 

Edited by annlaw78
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I think Claire is becoming more and more attracted to Jamie and she's trying to push the thing down and cover it with 'reason' - and it comes off awfully childish.

 

Perhaps it's the first time she has ever felt that way about another man after Frank? It seems like that. She virtually doesn't know what to do with herself.

 

Teasing at the table? Sooo high-school. And so overflowing with jealousy.

 

I think she's reminding herself of Frank as a sort of a safety-switch. "Anytime you feel the hots for the Scot, think of Frank. Think of Frank. Frank.... But let me just check the bandages, ok? Frank."

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DoughGirl,

 

There's a whole section over on Ravelry (a knitting forum, for those who don't know) for Outlander, with threads specifically devoted to bandying about ideas and links to patterns for or similar to the knitwear on the show.  For those who don't knit themselves, the Etsy shop you're looking for is InnerWild.  She apparently made several of the arm condoms (TM Beth's husband from the That's Normal board) that Claire wears (I think some of the capes too, maybe), and sells them in a variety of colors.

 

A few complications: first, this InnerWild person has her Etsy shop closed a bunch--I had never been to Etsy, and I guess if the person says they're on vacation, just about everything goes away, including pictures of current stock.  The page says the couple of days she intends to be open this coming week (like she did last week, on which days I spent a really frightening amount of money).  You can see exactly what she makes by clicking on the stars for her reviews--you'll see a bunch of the arm condoms and capes sold recently.

 

Second, her stock is going down quickly (I wonder why); I also understand her explanation for being on vacation, but her timing could not have been, as a commercial decision, worse.  Finally, she doesn't put out her patterns.  Still, I hope she makes a little fortune off of this.  Her stuff is really pretty.

 

Good news, though!  Arm condoms are really easy to make!  And once you get the hang of their construction, making ones that look just like Claire's is just a matter of having a rank beginner's understanding of some basic stitches.  Now, what I really want from this week is Geillis' silvery blue cape.  Not to wear, because I would look ridiculous rather than Ethereally Beautiful Pro Level Shit Disturber, but just to lay casually across a chair where I could look at it all the time...

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I think she's reminding herself of Frank as a sort of a safety-switch. "Anytime you feel the hots for the Scot, think of Frank. Think of Frank. Frank.... But let me just check the bandages, ok? Frank."

Yeah, as long as this doesn't continue for the rest of the season, I can cut her some slack.  But after a while (ahem, Pam Beasley, the first like 5 season of The Office), it gets tired, and starts to reflect really poorly on the person who is doing the emotional-cheating and the trying-to-pass-off-the-obvious-attraction-as-"friendship."  I know that the concept of the gay best friend was certainly not around in the 1740s, nor the 1940s, but, Claire, Jamie is not your gay best friend for you to romp around the Highlands with.  He's into you, and you know it!

Edited by annlaw78
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DoughGirl,

 

There's a whole section over on Ravelry (a knitting forum, for those who don't know) for Outlander, with threads specifically devoted to bandying about ideas and links to patterns for or similar to the knitwear on the show.  For those who don't knit themselves, the Etsy shop you're looking for is InnerWild.  She apparently made several of the arm condoms (TM Beth's husband from the That's Normal board) that Claire wears (I think some of the capes too, maybe), and sells them in a variety of colors.

 

A few complications: first, this InnerWild person has her Etsy shop closed a bunch--I had never been to Etsy, and I guess if the person says they're on vacation, just about everything goes away, including pictures of current stock.  The page says the couple of days she intends to be open this coming week (like she did last week, on which days I spent a really frightening amount of money).  You can see exactly what she makes by clicking on the stars for her reviews--you'll see a bunch of the arm condoms and capes sold recently.

 

Second, her stock is going down quickly (I wonder why); I also understand her explanation for being on vacation, but her timing could not have been, as a commercial decision, worse.  Finally, she doesn't put out her patterns.  Still, I hope she makes a little fortune off of this.  Her stuff is really pretty.

 

Good news, though!  Arm condoms are really easy to make!  And once you get the hang of their construction, making ones that look just like Claire's is just a matter of having a rank beginner's understanding of some basic stitches.  Now, what I really want from this week is Geillis' silvery blue cape.  Not to wear, because I would look ridiculous rather than Ethereally Beautiful Pro Level Shit Disturber, but just to lay casually across a chair where I could look at it all the time...

Thank you! I already have a Ravelry account so I'll check it out now!

I want Geillis' cape too.

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Love the slow burn between Jamie and Claire. Would hate it if they were jumping each other by now. It does sometimes appear sophomoric but I like to think of it as restraint on both their parts.

 

I didn't mind the scene with Colum (except, yes, agree that's not the butt we want to see). He did, after all, only ask for a massage on his legs. It was Claire who suggested the lower spine area. He simply agreed -- and maybe because it was her suggestion he figured she had no problem with the lower back nudity.

 

Biggest nitpick I had is when Claire and Jamie were at the old kirk (sp?) and she found the culprit poison plant and mentioned that it had been brought to Scotland by German monks -- then quickly autocorrected to Prussian. I'm pretty sure Germany was a place in the 1500s (Martin Luther and all that Reformation stuff went on circa 1517). Not to get too heavy into the history, but as far back as Julius Caesar, it was called Germania (to distinguish it from Gaul). And Luther translated the Bible into German, which was a legitimate language.

 

Other than that, good episode.

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I'm pretty sure Germany was a place in the 1500s (Martin Luther and all that Reformation stuff went on circa 1517). Not to get too heavy into the history, but as far back as Julius Caesar, it was called Germania (to distinguish it from Gaul). And Luther translated the Bible into German, which was a legitimate language.

You're right.  Germany was currently part of the Prussian Empire, but the concept of "Germany" and "Germans" had been around a long time.  There wasn't a state called "Germany" until unification in the 1870s, but the collection of kingdoms and principalities that were unified would have been considered "Germanic." 

Edited by annlaw78
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I'm glad there is some breathing room between Claire arriving at the castle and then being burned at the stake.  I mean, I figure stake burning is a direction she is headed as it's likely a major concern for any 20th/21st century woman heading back a couple hundred years.  

 

I really like their use of flashforwardbacks and imaginings.  It works so well with the 'in the past' script.  It's easy to forget that Claire and Frank had spent so many years apart during their marriage due to the war.  It also reminds us that Claire feels a lot more comfortable with the guys than the gals. As a war nurse in the thick of it, she would have been spending most of her time with men, healing them and talking to them and doing things to take their mind off their suffering.  It's no surprise really that she would form a bond with Jaime, her first patient in this strange new world.  He's her respite from having to put on a show pretending to be a woman of the 18th century.  I don't find her behavior with him sophomoric in the least.  Rather it's just how she'd act in her real life.  More, she's an outlander and is held prisoner with no way to get back to the stones.  Her situation is fairly dire.  Connecting with someone, especially when that someone seems to also have a strange relationship with the castle dwellers, isn't all that odd.  It's rather normal.

 

It's not like there is anyone else.  Mrs. Fitz seems like a nice old lady but that imagining Claire had is what I'd expect from the lady if Claire told her things.  And Geilis, geez, if I saw those red shoes I'd be a bit freaked out, too.  lol.  Especially after Geilis was like "oh it's just his hand cut off who cares" and then rolling her eyes and seducing her husband to be lenient on the kid and made it clear she didn't actually care for the man.  There's something strange and dangerous seeming about that woman.

 

I do hope they get more into the politics of the castle.  

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I don't really know how I feel about this episode yet, I need another re-watch or two I think.

 

I do like  the continued FlashForwards to Frank because they are used so well at the moment. Especially when she's crying and Dougal interrupts her, I loved that scene.

 

I was squicked out by the Colum/Clair scene and I didn't get the point of humiliating the tailor when Colum himself started the conversation by saying the cloak needed to be a couple inches longer (or maybe I just didn't understand that conversation).

 

So glad that whole Ms. Fitz confrontation from the preview was in Claire's head! Claire really needs an ally besides Gellis and Jamie and I'm glad she found one. I'm definitely warming up to Mrs. Fitz.

 

I sense trouble between Claire and the Priest. That probably won't end well.

 

And I'm really enjoying the developing relationship between Jamie and Claire. The first scene with Leoghaire and her seeing the two of them making out was a little ham handed to me but the rest of the scenes were flawless. Especially when he helped out the poor kid nailed to the pillory.

 

Never mind guess I do know how I feel about the episode. LOL

Edited by SanLynn
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He's her respite from having to put on a show pretending to be a woman of the 18th century.  I don't find her behavior with him sophomoric in the least.  Rather it's just how she'd act in her real life.

Would a mature, intelligent, married woman in 1945 really act the way she is with Jamie, though?  This isn't just "being laddish" and playing cards, or drinking, or swearing with the boys. 

 

Put another way: if Frank were a fly on the wall, how would he feel about how she's acting?

 

Again, it's fine for now.  I just think that the show has sort of sped up the sexual tension to the boiling-over point, in which it's going to be hard to continue this level of flirtation and intimacy between Jamie and Claire, without her doing a bunch of back-pedaling and confusing hot-and-cold treatment to Jamie.  As far as Jamie's concerned, she's an available widow who seems to like him, want to spend time with him, and looks for excuses to seek him out/be alone with him.  And, you know, is always unbuttoning his shirt. 

Edited by annlaw78
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Colum himself started the conversation by saying the cloak needed to be a couple inches longer (or maybe I just didn't understand that conversation).

Column observes that the coat is a bit longer than standard, not that he wants it to be longer.   He's being sarcastic as it falls all the way to his ankles but that point would be easy for a viewer to miss that because they shot the image of his coat and his legs from above, as though it was Colum's point of view.

 

 

As far as Jamie's concerned, she's an available widow who seems to like him, want to spend time with him, and looks for excuses to seek him out/be alone with him.  And, you know, is always unbuttoning his shirt.

Aye, but she's also a recent widow who still cries over her husband and who wants very much to leave Castle Leoch and Scotland altogether.  Then there's the fact that he's an outlaw who cannot go home and so is in no position to marry, which is the only honorable way of acting on his attraction. And Jamie is honorable.  Also horny.  He's a mess of conflicting urges is our Jamie-boy.

Edited by WatchrTina
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Would a mature, intelligent, married woman in 1945 really act the way she is with Jamie, though?  This isn't just "being laddish" and playing cards, or drinking, or swearing with the boys. 

 

Put another way: if Frank were a fly on the wall, how would he feel about how she's acting?

 

According to the stories my grandmothers and other women of their generation tell us, yes.  They had no reason not to seek out those of the opposite sex if they so chose to.  Of course, my grandmothers were never nurses and had no cause to be in a surgery with patients in various states of undress.  Claire's profession is what makes the budding friendship more intimate than it seems.  

 

Claire hasn't done anything wrong so I'm not sure the concern about Frank's feelings here.  Frank might be jealous, but it's not like he would be less jealous if had watched her while she was a field nurse.  He knows she became close with some patients, they talked about it in the first episode.  He also knows that she speaks her mind and that she isn't all that concerned with proper woman behavior.  This is the woman he married and claims to love.  Why would he have a problem if she's acting the same as she always does?  

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I am eagerly awaiting the posting of Ron's podcast for 103 so in the meantime I'll just pose this question.  Why did Jamie walk her back to Davy Beaton's surgery?  I don't think Claire sleeps down there.  It would be odd and dangerous to have a woman housed by herself in a remote corner of the castle (which is what the surgery feels like) and besides, we see her in what appears to be a regular bedroom in the first scene.  I'm not castle expert but I'm guessing bedrooms (at least the nice ones) are typically above stairs while working areas (like the surgery) are "below-stairs".  I got the distinct impression that one walked down to get to the surgery.  So . . . what is the point of Jamie walking Claire there?  How is she any better off being drunk down there than she was being tipsy in the great hall?  

 

For that matter, why the hell were all those candles lit when they walked in?

 

I'm taking the rest of this to the book thread.

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Why would he have a problem if she's acting the same as she always does?

 

You're right -- he may not have a problem.  We don't really know enough about Frank to assume he'd react poorly.  What I may consider inappropriate grabassery, he may very well see as simply playful, friendly banter... with a younger, hotter, oft-topless dude... who thinks he's dead... and be totally fine with it! 

 

Why did Jamie walk her back to Davy Beaton's surgery?  I don't think Claire sleeps down there.  It would be odd and dangerous to have a woman housed by herself in a remote corner of the castle (which is what the surgery feels like) and besides, we see her in what appears to be a regular bedroom in the first scene.  I'm not castle expert but I'm guessing bedrooms (at least the nice ones) are typically above stairs while working areas (like the surgery) are "below-stairs".  I got the distinct impression that one walked down to get to the surgery.  So . . . what is the point of Jamie walking Claire there?  How is she any better off being drunk down there than she was being tipsy in the great hall?

 

I'm not sure where the surgery is.  I think it's in one of the towers.  There are steps walking down into it... but after you walk up one of those turnpike stairs, if I recall from Frank and Claire's visit.  It has normal windows, so it's not a basement.  Perhaps there are sleeping quarters off the surgery (if there's an emergency, the healer is on-site), sort of like a suite, that her things have been moved to.  I'm sure some enterprising person will mock up a floorplan soon!

Edited by annlaw78
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I am eagerly awaiting the posting of Ron's podcast for 103 so in the meantime I'll just pose this question.  Why did Jamie walk her back to Davy Beaton's surgery?  I don't think Claire sleeps down there.  

 

Not sure he knows where Claire sleeps, but he did say he didn't need her help with anything and he only said it to bring her safely back so she wouldn't fall on her face drunk.  But I also think he did it as an excuse for her to look at his bandages, what with him insisting she didn't need to, knowing she would then insist that she should look.

 

I loved this episode, and like someone posted above, not enough of Jaime.  And wowza was that scene in the surgery filled with all kinds of tension, and the way Jaime looked at Claire when she wasn't looking at him. Man wants her awesomely fierce, he does. 

 

And I don't blame Jaime for kissing Laoghaire, either. He's not engaged to Claire, they don't have any kind of understanding, and if he wants to err, get some ease/relief, he's every right to.

 

Sigh. Now I have to let go of the thoughts that the priests in Scotland were not as zealous and brimstoney, and misogynisticy as the English priests. I blame it on the other historical romances I've read over the years, where they were depicted as so, and by authors who did do their research.

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He's her respite from having to put on a show pretending to be a woman of the 18th century.  I don't find her behavior with him sophomoric in the least.  Rather it's just how she'd act in her real life.  More, she's an outlander and is held prisoner with no way to get back to the stones.  Her situation is fairly dire.  Connecting with someone, especially when that someone seems to also have a strange relationship with the castle dwellers, isn't all that odd.  It's rather normal.

 

I agree, and I'm puzzled by the idea that Claire is acting like an immature tease because I don't see it and also there's no hint of emotional cheating there. There's a middle ground between "not attracted to someone" and "having chemistry with someone and jumping their bones at the first occasion", it doesn't have to be one or the other. The times when the tension between them was at its highest was a) when she broke down thinking of Frank and Jamie comforted her and b) when she'd had a couple of glasses of rhenish. Aside from that they seem to be perfectly able to interact with each other in a way that is overtly friendly, not flirty, at least from Claire's side. I don't think her state her mind right now is allowing her to see Jamie as a viable option for anything (hence the hilarious matchmaking attempts with Leery (can't remember how to spell her name)). She knows he's hot (and she commented on it to Leery) but she's got bigger things to worry about (saving people, going back home, voice-overing).

Edited by glitterpants
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I finally figured out how to turn on closed captioning with sound, had to hunt around. Glad I did, it will make survivor easier to watch.

I'm watching it again with CC on. I expect to catch more, I always do. I also want to rewatch those slow burn scenes as someone else called them. I'm loving the tension between them.

I didn't mind the bare butt scene, his butt wasn't so bad.

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I don't think Claire is being childish at all, really.  She's in an awful predicament, and is coping as well as she can (which is actually pretty well)  She is thrown into this strange time, and Jamie has been the only real source of...well, friendship she has.  She automatically feels safe with him, and while yes she is of course attracted to him, she automatically seeks him out or turns to him for some kind of...sanity or comfort I guess.   It's kind of human nature, isn't it?  And I am not really sure if she is aware of the extent of his feelings.  She has to know he is attracted to her, that much is obvious, but I don't think she thinks there is anything too wrong with it.  She thinks he is a "cad" or a ladies man, so he has to be used to it.   No harm, really.

 

I still can't get over how perfect Sam is for this role. 

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Biggest nitpick I had is when Claire and Jamie were at the old kirk (sp?) and she found the culprit poison plant and mentioned that it had been brought to Scotland by German monks -- then quickly autocorrected to Prussian. I'm pretty sure Germany was a place in the 1500s (Martin Luther and all that Reformation stuff went on circa 1517). Not to get too heavy into the history, but as far back as Julius Caesar, it was called Germania (to distinguish it from Gaul). And Luther translated the Bible into German, which was a legitimate language.

That's also not what lily of the valley looks like, as far as I know. That looked like a climbing vine, and lily of the valley is a kind of flower with leaves that shoot up out of the ground kind of like tulips.

 

Why did Jamie walk her back to Davy Beaton's surgery?  I don't think Claire sleeps down there.  It would be odd and dangerous to have a woman housed by herself in a remote corner of the castle (which is what the surgery feels like) and besides, we see her in what appears to be a regular bedroom in the first scene.  I'm not castle expert but I'm guessing bedrooms (at least the nice ones) are typically above stairs while working areas (like the surgery) are "below-stairs".  I got the distinct impression that one walked down to get to the surgery.  So . . . what is the point of Jamie walking Claire there?  How is she any better off being drunk down there than she was being tipsy in the great hall? 

That was my question too.

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-

 

Biggest nitpick I had is when Claire and Jamie were at the old kirk (sp?) and she found the culprit poison plant and mentioned that it had been brought to Scotland by German monks -- then quickly autocorrected to Prussian.

Well, I've got a bigger nitpick than that- the plant shown was most certainly not Lily of the valley- not even a passable facsimile. At least when Breaking Bad used it they found a real specimen.

I have Lily of the valley growing in my yard- it forms loose colonies something like a ground cover- certainly not growing up a wall at eye level.

A small thing, perhaps, but they pay so much attention to clothing and location and so on- someone really dropped the ball on this one. If they had no specimen or even an acceptable fake plant one would think that there are thousands of other poisonous species they could have referenced.

And FWIW it looked nothing like wood garlic either.

Took me right out of the show.

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I checked the two plants on Wikipedia, and the leaves look very similar.  This episode was set in early November, so there wouldn't be any flowers or berries to distinguish the plants.

 

Did a search on "wood garlic and lily of the valley" and turned up a lot of websites stating the leaves of the two plants are very similar and are often mistaken for each other.

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They're not similar at all, IMO.

Except maybe to people who don't pay even minimal attention.

 

Yes, wood garlic and Lily of the valley could be considered somewhat similar, but the prop abomination they used on the show was nothing like either of them. The leaf shape, the veining... ugh.

And the growth habit was decidedly wrong.

Edited by Pestilentia

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As I (im)patiently await the posting of Ron Moore's podcast and Bear McCreary's blog shall we take a moment to appreciate the small things?  Specifically I want to give a shout-out to one wee little extra.  As the boy is taken from the Fiscal's house to the pillory the camera scans the forming crowd and settles on a very young girl who has a look on her face that is perfect -- uncertainty and fearful anticipation.  Good for her.  I love those little things.

 

 

I have to applaud yet another almost up-kilt shot.

annlaw78 I looked carefully and never saw anything close to an up-kilt shot.  Are you toying with us?

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annlaw78 I looked carefully and never saw anything close to an up-kilt shot.  Are you toying with us?

You clearly are not as accomplished an old lech as I am... When Jamie is talking to the boy on the pillory, he jauntily puts one foot on the scaffold.  It's really more the promise of an up-kilt shot, than the delivery of one.

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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allium_ursinum

Similarity to poisonous plants

The leaves of A. ursinum are easily mistaken for Lily of the Valley, sometimes also those of Colchicum autumnale and Arum maculatum. All three are poisonous; potentially deadly incidents occur almost every year. Grinding the leaves between the fingers and checking for a garlic-like smell can be helpful, but if the smell remains on the hands, one can easily mistake a subsequent poisonous plant for bear garlic.[2] When the leaves of Allium ursinum and Arum maculatum first sprout they look similar, but unfolded Arum maculatum leaves have irregular edges and many deep veins while ramsons leaves are convex with a single main vein. The leaves of Lily of the Valley come from a single purple stem, while the leaves of A. ursinum have individual green-coloured stems.[citation needed]

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You clearly are not as accomplished an old lech as I am... When Jamie is talking to the boy on the pillory, he jauntily puts one foot on the scaffold.  It's really more the promise of an up-kilt shot, than the delivery of one

I'll confess I generally cannot take my eyes off Jamie's face when he's on camera (unless his shirt is off and his brawny chest is being artfully lit by firelight, in which case . . . you know.)  But I shall certainly make a point to check out that scene again more carefully.

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That's odd about the accuracy of the plants, because during the inside look for this episode, they talk about the pains they went through to assure they used the right kind of plants.

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I'll confess I generally cannot take my eyes off Jamie's face when he's on camera (unless his shirt is off and his brawny chest is being artfully lit by firelight, in which case . . . you know.)  But I shall certainly make a point to check out that scene again more carefully.

ITA

I can't wait to see him and Claire kiss. The actor is so hot and I can't believe GOT passed on using him.

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I am eagerly awaiting the posting of Ron's podcast for 103 so in the meantime I'll just pose this question.  Why did Jamie walk her back to Davy Beaton's surgery?  I don't think Claire sleeps down there.  It would be odd and dangerous to have a woman housed by herself in a remote corner of the castle (which is what the surgery feels like) and besides, we see her in what appears to be a regular bedroom in the first scene.  I'm not castle expert but I'm guessing bedrooms (at least the nice ones) are typically above stairs while working areas (like the surgery) are "below-stairs".  I got the distinct impression that one walked down to get to the surgery.  So . . . what is the point of Jamie walking Claire there?  How is she any better off being drunk down there than she was being tipsy in the great hall?  

 

Likely the surgery was the place he could be alone with her and not get tongues waggling, Claire being a single woman and all. It's different her being alone in the room with the MacKenzie and doctoring him, and being alone with Jaime in her chambers while he smoldered at her at night. I mean, he'd be smoldering anywhere and that part isn't strictly part of the answer, I just had to mention it because damn it was hot.

 

This is Jaime, he's a gentleman. He just took a beating for a young woman because she was accused of being loose and it would take her forever to get over the embarrassment, and he didn't even know her. And he's already promised nothing would happen to Claire while she was with him. He's not going to let a woman he smolders at be the subject of gossip, or anything that could get her hurt in any way.

 

Smolder.

 

...Excuse me.

 

ETA: Re, the plants: Could it be something along the lines of Daddy Long Legs? I'm Canadian, and my ex was from England. We had an interesting conversation about them (with me freaking out, and him wondering why since I was talking about spiders) because they really are different things but use the same name. If they were that careful about getting the correct plant maybe that was it; right for Claire, wrong for us.

Edited by Insomnia
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Likely the surgery was the place he could be alone with her and not get tongues waggling, Claire being a single woman and all. It's different her being alone in the room with the MacKenzie and doctoring him, and being alone with Jaime in her chambers while he smoldered at her at night. I mean, he'd be smoldering anywhere and that part isn't strictly part of the answer, I just had to mention it because damn it was hot.

 

This is Jaime, he's a gentleman. He just took a beating for a young woman because she was accused of being loose and it would take her forever to get over the embarrassment, and he didn't even know her. And he's already promised nothing would happen to Claire while she was with him. He's not going to let a woman he smolders at be the subject of gossip, or anything that could get her hurt in any way.

 

Smolder.

 

...Excuse me.

 

I was only going to quote part of this, but on second reading, decided to go with the whole thing, because OH.MY.GOD. YES. The smoldering looks and just so much was communicated non verbally. And I'm glad Game of Thrones peoples nixed hiring him. Think about it! We probably wouldn't have gotten him as Jaime, if they had. So I want to thank those in charge of casting for saying no to Sam.

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And I'm glad Game of Thrones peoples nixed hiring him. Think about it! We probably wouldn't have gotten him as Jaime, if they had. So I want to thank those in charge of casting for saying no to Sam.

Yes, I want to add my thanks as well.  Utter idiots that you are, I love you for your complete lack of taste and discernment. As do a multitude around the world, I imagine.  Long live the Jamie smoulder!

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Who was Jamie kissing? Was it the blonde he ignored and said was Bonny? Is that the same girl he took a beating for?

I didn't realize he auditioned so many times for game of thrones. Does anyone know which parts? Happy he didn't get them so he could be Jamie!

They did a great job casting Claire and Jamie because the chemistry is definitely there!

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I can't say more than was already said ... so I will just say this ...

 

I want to live in Scotland and have my very own Jamie.

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