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Does anyone have a list of this invited to trials, both men and women? I’ve been looking everywhere. 

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6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

My pick would be Simone, Jordan, Suni and Jade. Maybe Riley and Grace for individual. I wish there were more spots. There's just so many really good choices. I don't want to count Leanne Wong out either. Some of the younger girls are really good too but they only have three years to wait until 2024. I don't think Morgan's going to make it which is too bad. She was really good a couple years ago and healing from injuries. Sorry about Laurie too. She was one of my favorites. 

On the mens team Brody was really good. I like Modi and Yul. Poor Shane, he kept getting up and trying again. I hope he's not injuried after all that. Please, please don't put Sam on the team. He blows it every single time. Give it to someone else. 

Jade cannot give up her already earned individual spot. If she makes the team, she’s still going as an individual. 

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9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

My pick would be Simone, Jordan, Suni and Jade. Maybe Riley and Grace for individual. I wish there were more spots. There's just so many really good choices. I don't want to count Leanne Wong out either. Some of the younger girls are really good too but they only have three years to wait until 2024. I don't think Morgan's going to make it which is too bad. She was really good a couple years ago and healing from injuries. Sorry about Laurie too. She was one of my favorites. 

On the mens team Brody was really good. I like Modi and Yul. Poor Shane, he kept getting up and trying again. I hope he's not injuried after all that. Please, please don't put Sam on the team. He blows it every single time. Give it to someone else. 

If Jade gets put on the team that means the US only has 5 spots. The individual spot Jade has belongs to her and not the federation. If she declines the spot it would go to the next gymnast regardless of country.

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11 hours ago, SophiaD said:

I'm also aware, though, that we barely saw anyone else's total competition.  NBC focused so much on Simone, Jordan, Jade, and Suni, I'm really not sure how anyone else looked.

It's especially annoying when they spend several minutes showing Simone taping her ankle or playing on her phone instead of showing routines from other gymnasts. It's boring to watch and feels creepy and invasive.

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3 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

Jade cannot give up her already earned individual spot. If she makes the team, she’s still going as an individual. 

 

19 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

If Jade gets put on the team that means the US only has 5 spots. The individual spot Jade has belongs to her and not the federation. If she declines the spot it would go to the next gymnast regardless of country.

I know. She's just really good. I really wish we could pick her for one of the main spots. 

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17 minutes ago, Cherpumple said:

It's especially annoying when they spend several minutes showing Simone taping her ankle or playing on her phone instead of showing routines from other gymnasts. It's boring to watch and feels creepy and invasive.

Same! Even Simone liked a tweet about NBC not showing the rest of the gymnasts. 

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I hope the Olympics isn't just nonstop Simone cam. I want to see other gymnasts, not just Simone taping her ankles, adjusting her pony-tail, or checking her phone. 

One of the joys of international competitions is seeing the different compositions of routines from different countries. Like I always love the Chinese beam routines.

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Me too. I love watching gymnastics from other countries. I'd be happy watching every gymnast routine. 

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4 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Chinese toe point and twisting form is to die for.

I those old Romanian routines, floor and beam.

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3 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Nothing official but looks like Morgan isn’t going.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CP1gVQuBnKX/?utm_medium=copy_link

This isn't too surprising. I hate it for her, but she did not do well enough this past weekend to warrant an invitation to the Olympic Trials. I'm trying to figure out what happened between 2017 and today. I hope she can make it to Paris in 2024.

As far as who should make the team, IMO, Jade Carey shouldn't be chosen. It's nothing against her, but she decided to go the route she did to ensure she could go to Tokyo. She's done that. 

Jordan Chiles is peaking at the right time, and I'm so happy for her. I've loved her ever since she wore that Wonder Woman leotard at the Classic back in 2018.

Edited by PepSinger
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It's interesting seeing different countries work the codes. Like Americans get a lot of points on beam by a bunch of acro skills. The Chinese do combos of leaps. The Russians do a lot of inbars transitions.

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One spot has potential to cause big mess for US women's gymnastics team for Tokyo

This article does a good job of showing what a mess this is. I didn’t realize Jade and her dad had said she wouldn’t go for the 4 person team, but that was probably before they realized her bars would improve and she’d really have a chance. Still, I don’t blame her at all. Jade has to look out for Jade, and at this point none of these gymnasts owe USAG anything. If I were her, I’d certainly want to be on the team that is very, very  likely going to win an Olympic gold medal.

I want 6 gymnasts to go because all of them deserve it, and that’s the only reason I hope Jade doesn’t make the 4 person team. I am going to be so nervous for everyone at Olympic Trials!

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9 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Jade has to look out for Jade, and at this point none of these gymnasts owe USAG anything. If I were her, I’d certainly want to be on the team that is very, very  likely going to win an Olympic gold medal.

After the huge dumpster fire involving USAG and the abuse charges and mishandling, she certainly has to look out for herself. A gold medal would translate into more lucrative post Olympic endeavors. Gymnastics, particularly at the elite level, is ridiculously expensive and difficult physically and emotionally. 

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17 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

One spot has potential to cause big mess for US women's gymnastics team for Tokyo

This article does a good job of showing what a mess this is. I didn’t realize Jade and her dad had said she wouldn’t go for the 4 person team, but that was probably before they realized her bars would improve and she’d really have a chance. Still, I don’t blame her at all. Jade has to look out for Jade, and at this point none of these gymnasts owe USAG anything. If I were her, I’d certainly want to be on the team that is very, very  likely going to win an Olympic gold medal.

I want 6 gymnasts to go because all of them deserve it, and that’s the only reason I hope Jade doesn’t make the 4 person team. I am going to be so nervous for everyone at Olympic Trials!

I don't either. USAG was such a mess who knew what was going to happen and there was only four spots. Her chances weren't that good. So she went for the other option and she really earned that spot. Since that decision she really improved. I watched her in those meets. She really was awesome. She's make a perfect pick for the team. As much as I really, really want her too. She already earned her spot. She'll do great for the individual spot. 

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The whole four person team for olympics is a complete train wreck and travesty of epic proportions and I want to smack whomever is responsible.  

Thus said, I will lose respect for Jade if she ends up taking what amounts to two spots. I will understand it, but I won't like it. 

I think they should go back to six people on the team.  And ALL the scores count.

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1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

The whole four person team for olympics is a complete train wreck and travesty of epic proportions and I want to smack whomever is responsible.  

Thus said, I will lose respect for Jade if she ends up taking what amounts to two spots. I will understand it, but I won't like it. 

I think they should go back to six people on the team.  And ALL the scores count.

It will go back to a 5 person team for 2024.  I would love for them to bring back a 7 person team!  

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I don't think the selection committee will pick Jade. She'll have to be in the top two at trials, and I don't see that happening. So in the end, I think the person Jade will hurt the most by having done this is Jade, because I think she had a very good chance at being selected for the team if she hadn't already reserved a spot. As was pointed out by the earlier article, if Jade isn't on the team she won't be an Olympic champion. Simone will readily beat her (and everyone else) to win the floor and vault event finals.

For that matter, Jade could potentially not even make it to event finals for either of her events--Jordan beat her at Nationals on both, and Suni was also higher than Jade on floor. The two per country rule could lock Jade out entirely. I know she likely has more challenging skills she can pull out, and she might absolutely have to do so. 

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3 hours ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

After the huge dumpster fire involving USAG and the abuse charges and mishandling, she certainly has to look out for herself.

Even when you take all the abuse coverups out of the equation (and make no mistake, Larry Nassar is NOT the only coach who abused gymnasts that USAG knew about and covered for), the selection process for the Olympic team has been shady for decades. They say that nationals and Olympic trials are prerequisites but for years, Bela/Marta and the selection committee just picked whoever they wanted for the team regardless of their scores. At least for Tokyo, whoever places first and second at Olympic trials is guaranteed a spot on the team which is an improvement. In the past, it was just whichever 5/6/7 gymnasts the Karolyis deemed worthy.

But that's why it's hard for me to be mad that Jade opted to try for the World Cup qualification for the Olympics. This way, she secured a spot without having to worry about what USAG's grand plan was.  I know things change, but she went this route with the intention of not being on the 4 person team so I think that she should not even try to make the team.

I think the chances of her being put on the team are slim to none. She has decently solid scores, but they aren't high enough to merit putting her on the team. If she had finished second behind Simone consistently throughout nationals, then sure, but she finished 8th on bars, 8th on floor, 11th on beam, and 4th on vault. The 4th on vault isn't as impressive as it sounds either because only 4 people at nationals opted to do vaults from two different families (a requirement for the event final), which means she finished last. Realistically, I think that unless everyone else makes massive mistakes, she isn't really in contention to medal at the Olympics so her goal is probably to land her new move so that it can be named after her in the code of points.

 

2 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

The whole four person team for olympics is a complete train wreck and travesty of epic proportions and I want to smack whomever is responsible. 

I think they should go back to six people on the team.  And ALL the scores count.

You can blame the FIG president because the 4 person team was his idea. Then the FIG realized what a horrible idea it was but it was too late to change it for Tokyo. For Paris, they're going back to 5 people on the team.

In the past, it was 6 people per team, all 6 people competed on all 4 events, and the lowest score on each apparatus was dropped.

At the 1996 Olympics, the 7-6-5 format was introduced. 7 gymnasts were on the team. 6 competed in each event. The top 5 scores were counted toward the team point total. This was the beginning of having specialists on the team. Amy Chow and Amanda Borden were the first specialists on the American team. Amy competed on vault and bars while Amanda competed on floor and beam.

At the 2000 Olympics, the team was back to 6 members but only 5 members competed on each event. The top 4 scores were counted toward the team total. This was a slight swing back towards stronger all around gymnasts. On the American team, only two gymnasts (Amy Chow and Elise Ray) competed on all four events. The other four gymnasts competed on three events each.

At the 2004 Olympics, the FIG took a hard left into creating teams of specialists. Each team had 6 gymnasts but only 3 gymnasts were allowed to compete in each event and all 3 scores counted (no more dropping the lowest score). Carly Patterson was the only one on the team who competed in all four events for the team final. Annia Hatch competed only on bars.

The 2008 Olympics followed the same format. Shawn Johnson was the only one to compete in all four events in the team final. Nastia Liukin and Alicia Sacramone competed in three events. Chellsie Memmel and Bridget Sloan each competed in one event.

At the 2012 Olympics, there were 5 team members but only 4 gymnasts competed in each event and all four scores were counted toward the team points. Gabby Douglas, Aly Raisman, and Jordyn Wieber competed in all four events. Kyla Ross competed in 3 events. McKayla Maroney competed in only 1 event.

At the 2016 Olympics, there were 5 team members, but only 3 gymnasts competed in each event and all 3 scores counted. Simone Biles was the only one to compete in all 4 events. Aly Raisman and Laurie Hernandez competed in 3 events. Madison Kocian and Gabby Douglas competed in only 1 event each.

At the 2021 Olympics, for the qualifying round, all 4 gymnasts will compete and the lowest score will be dropped. For the finals, only 3 will compete in each event  and all 3 scores will be counted.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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Thanks for the history. Wow, pick a lane, gymnastics. It's crazy to me that the format has changed essentially every single Olympics for the past 20+ years. It's like they're trying to tweak things for a certain result, but it hasn't worked, so then they tweak it again the next time. And round we go again the next time. So just do what makes the most sense and live with the results. Sheesh.

My preference would be to lean toward more all-around gymnasts and fewer specialists.

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I have a lot of mixed feelings on Nancy Armour's article since in 2016 she became a rabid Martha supporter until the abuse allegations and weirdly defended her on that 30 for 30 podcast. I feel like she should be more critical in that piece of Tom Forrester and USA Gym.

I personally think it's selfish for Jade to take a team spot. I don't blame her at all for going the individual route however she made that choice by withdrawing from the 2018 World Selection camp. Brian Carey has talked about how the individual spot is the backup plan. Due to the fact Jade going the individual route it prevented any other gymnast because of stupid rules Usa Gymnastics put in place.

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18 hours ago, Jillibean said:

Simone will readily beat her (and everyone else) to win the floor and vault event finals.

That's what they said about McKayla Maroney and her vaulting... 

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I understand Laurie Herandez not being invited but NOT letting Morgan Hurd go to the trials? Bad Form!

ETA:  so outraged I forgot a word

Edited by KittenPokerCheater
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6 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I understand Laurie Herandez being invited but NOT letting Morgan Hurd go to the trials? Bad Form!

Laurie isn't going either.

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21 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Even when you take all the abuse coverups out of the equation (and make no mistake, Larry Nassar is NOT the only coach who abused gymnasts that USAG knew about and covered for), the selection process for the Olympic team has been shady for decades.

My kids were competitive gymnasts at a gym that had multiple national team members (one that went to the Olympics). There was a toxic culture back then. My younger daughter dislocated her baby toe during conditioning and the female coach made her do conditioning until I was able to get there and take her to the ER to have it relocated. Her toe was sticking out sideways like a taxicab door yet she was doing V-ups.  

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1 hour ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

My kids were competitive gymnasts at a gym that had multiple national team members (one that went to the Olympics). There was a toxic culture back then. My younger daughter dislocated her baby toe during conditioning and the female coach made her do conditioning until I was able to get there and take her to the ER to have it relocated. Her toe was sticking out sideways like a taxicab door yet she was doing V-ups.  

My sister trained at a gym that had several national team members (and one girl who was an alternate at the Olympics) but thankfully her gym did not have that kind of toxic culture. The coaches obviously wanted their gymnasts to win, but not at the cost of being abusive assholes. They didn't have weigh ins, they didn't berate the girls, and they didn't humiliate them or force them to work out when they were injured. They also had a viewing room for the parents. It had huge glass windows with views of the entire gym so that the parents could see/hear that the coaches weren't being jerks to their kids.

My sister and I both danced from childhood through college so between the two of us, we had A LOT of coaches and teachers. Some of them were tough, but none of them were abusive (physically or emotionally) We have discussed several times how lucky we are that we managed to land at gyms and studios with kind, supportive adults and that we never ended up with eating disorders or major injuries. My sister didn't get a major injury until she was a collegiate cheerleader (she was stunting and her partner didn't catch her correctly so she hit her head and got a concussion). I'm pretty sure our experiences were the exception though.

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On 6/8/2021 at 6:14 PM, KittenPokerCheater said:

The whole four person team for olympics is a complete train wreck and travesty of epic proportions and I want to smack whomever is responsible.  

Bruno Grandi is responsible--the man whom I firmly believe deep down hates gymnastics. He is, hands down, the worst president FIG has ever had, and makes the worst decisions. 

\

On 6/8/2021 at 8:17 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

At the 2004 Olympics, the FIG took a hard left into creating teams of specialists. Each team had 6 gymnasts but only 3 gymnasts were allowed to compete in each event and all 3 scores counted (no more dropping the lowest score). Carly Patterson was the only one on the team who competed in all four events for the team final. Annia Hatch competed only on bars.
 

Annia Hatch competed on vault (and won a silver in EF).

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53 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Annia Hatch competed on vault (and won a silver in EF).

You’re right! I was looking at the wrong column when I looked up the 2004 Olympics (vault is next to bars on the chart). Annia only competed on vault. 

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On 6/9/2021 at 2:37 PM, AuntieDiane6 said:

That's what they said about McKayla Maroney and her vaulting... 

Yes but she's not Simone Biles. 

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2 hours ago, huggybear said:

Yes but she's not Simone Biles. 

You took the words right out of my mouth.

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5 hours ago, huggybear said:

Yes but she's not Simone Biles. 

Are Jade’s start values close to Simone’s? 

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So basically they took the top 17 at nationals plus Riley McCusker. Riley, Morgan, and Chellsie all petitioned but only Riley’s was accepted. 
 

Hernandez, Hurd Out

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I need to say a word about Jade's floor routine. Her tumbling is awesome, she has so much power, but her choreography/dancing is just...really awful. It's basically pose...pose...pose...kick-ass tumbling pass...pose...pose...pose...kick-ass tumbling pass...pose... until the routine is over. I've watched enough floor routines over the years to know that the vast majority of artistic gymnasts are not good dancers on floor but, wow, Jade!

On the flip side, Grace McCallum's choreography on beam is really beautiful to watch.

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The list for Olympic trials is up!

For the women, it's essentially the top 17 AA at nationals plus Riley McCusker, which bumped Sydney Barros (who finished 18th) out of trials.

Simone Biles
Skye Blakely
Jade Carey
Jordan Chiles
Kayla DiCello
Amari Drayton
Kara Eaker
Addison Fatta
Shilese Jones
Emily Lee
Suni Lee
Emma Malabuyo
Grace McCallum
Riley McCusker
Zoe Miller
Ava Siegfeldt
McKayla Skinner
Leanne Wong

For the men, it's the top 10 AA at nationals plus top 2 in event finals for a total of 21 gymnasts. A few people just barely missed making Olympic trials. Genki Suzuki finished 11th in AA and 3rd on high bar. Colt Walker finished 12th in AA and 3rd on parallel bars.

Cameron Bock
Allan Bower
Brandon Briones
Alex Diab
Gage Dyer
Vitaliy Guimaraes
Ian Gunther
Paul Juda
Riley Loos
Brody Malone
Sam Mikulak
Akash Modi
Yul Moldauer
Stephen Nedoroscik
Robert Neff
Eddie Penev
Colin Van Wicklen
Matt Wenske
Donnell Whittenburg
Shane Wiskus
Alec Yoder

ETA: Whoops, I don't know why my page didn't refresh and show me that @healthnut had already posted a link!

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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18 hours ago, irisheyes said:

Are Jade’s start values close to Simone’s? 

Looking at the scores from nationals, no.

Bars:

Quote

Simone
Day 1: 6.20
Day 2: 6.20

Jade
Day 1: 5.80
Day 2: 5.50

Beam:

Quote

Simone
Day 1: 6.30
Day 2: 6.50

Jade
Day 1: 5.60
Day 2: 5.20

Floor:

Quote

Simone
Day 1: 6.80
Day 2: 6.80

Jade
Day 1: 5.70
Day 2: 5.70

Vault:

Quote

Simone
Day 1: 6.00 + 5.80
Day 2: 6.00 + 5.80

Jade
Day 1: 5.40 + 5.20
Day 2: 5.40 + 5.20

 

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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Still rooting for Grace MacCallum for making the USA team.  She's got an artistic quality that international judges like.  (Obvi, Simone is the GOAT).

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3 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Still rooting for Grace MacCallum for making the USA team.  She's got an artistic quality that international judges like.  (Obvi, Simone is the GOAT).

If they take Jade over Grace for the team, I will scream.

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3 hours ago, Frisky Wig said:

[Jade's floor routine is] basically pose...pose...pose...kick-ass tumbling pass...pose...pose...pose...kick-ass tumbling pass...pose... until the routine is over.

All the ones I've seen look like that to me lol.

I can't see why they would put Jade on the team. It just seems very stupid. Although, they make a lot of bad decisions so I guess it is possible.

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No way will Jade will be on the team. USA Gymnastics isn't going to lose a spot. I'll be shocked if they put her on the team. 

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4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

All the ones I've seen look like that to me lol.

After I read this, I went on YT and watch 6 floor routines from Nationals: Grace, Sunisa, Simone, Mykayla, Emma and I rewatched Jade’s. You have a great point but IMO, Jade’s choreography looks especially pose…pose…posey than the others  

Nearly all of them did wolf turns, which I hear a lot of people hate, which is not surprising considering how all the gymnasts wave their arms during the turn to keep their balance. I started thinking “they need to get some rhythmic gymnasts in here to teach these athletes!” since there’s a similar turn in rhythmic called a Cossack turn. Lisa Ingildeeva does a nice one here at 1:01: 

This video has three, including a beautiful one into a needle scale that takes incredible strength, at 0:49: 

Then I realized that the rhythmic Cossack turn is done with the working leg devant, while the artistic wolf turn is done with the leg a la seconde. This likely makes it harder, thus the arm waving. 

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55 minutes ago, Frisky Wig said:

After I read this, I went on YT and watch 6 floor routines from Nationals: Grace, Sunisa, Simone, Mykayla, Emma and I rewatched Jade’s. You have a great point but IMO, Jade’s choreography looks especially pose…pose…posey than the others  

 

 

 

I just saw Jade's floor at Nationals on YTand then watched Lilia Podkapayeva on the floor. Now she was a gymnast who actually danced between the tumbling.

Here is her floor compulsories from 1996:

 

Edited by Mirabelle
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7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:
On 6/10/2021 at 9:24 PM, irisheyes said:

Are Jade’s start values close to Simone’s? 

Looking at the scores from nationals, no.

Bars:

Quote

Simone
Day 1: 6.20
Day 2: 6.20

Jade
Day 1: 5.80
Day 2: 5.50

Beam:

Quote

Simone
Day 1: 6.30
Day 2: 6.50

Jade
Day 1: 5.60
Day 2: 5.20

Floor:

Quote

Simone
Day 1: 6.80
Day 2: 6.80

Jade
Day 1: 5.70
Day 2: 5.70

Vault:

Quote

Simone
Day 1: 6.00 + 5.80
Day 2: 6.00 + 5.80

Jade
Day 1: 5.40 + 5.20
Day 2: 5.40 + 5.20

 

One thing to take into account is that Jade didn't do her more difficult vault and floor routines, so her start value will be higher at the trials. Now, if it's just as high as Simone, I'm not sure it will be.

Edited by PepSinger
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1 hour ago, Mirabelle said:

I just saw Jade's floor at Nationals on YTand then watched Lilia Podkapayeva on the floor. Now she was a gymnast who actually danced between the tumbling.

Here is her floor compulsories from 1996:

 

She was one of my favorites. 

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4 hours ago, Mirabelle said:

I just saw Jade's floor at Nationals on YTand then watched Lilia Podkapayeva on the floor. Now she was a gymnast who actually danced between the tumbling.

Here is her floor compulsories from 1996:

 

 

3 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Because every day is a day to watch how gorgeous Chinese girls are on beam:

 

This is due in large part to the fact that counties like China and Ukraine had mandatory ballet training for all of their gymnasts. It makes a huge difference in so many ways, from little details like full pointed feet (not just curled under toes) and épaulement to major things like connecting skills gracefully and actually being able to dance rather than just do a series of staccato poses in between tumbling skills on beam and floor. Gymnasts with good dance training have graceful hands instead of the crazy splayed out claw hands that I see on so many gymnasts these days.

My sister's gym had a very small dance studio with mirrored walls and ballet barres. Their ballet classes were only once a week (far less than the Chinese, Ukrainian, Russian, and Romanian gymnasts had to do) but they were mandatory for anyone who was above the baby classes.

Elena Shushanova was a great example that you can be a powerful tumbler as well as a graceful dancer. I used to love watching this beam routine.

Svetlana Boginskaya's ballet training is why her feet are pointed every time they leave the beam!

ETA: Watching the Lilia routine above reminded me how much I miss compulsories. I hate that they got rid of them.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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