S01.E01: Love or War

[statsgirl]

Quote

Young couple Camille and Valmont are fighting for a better life when they find themselves at war with each other.

Sunday, November 6 on STARZ at 9pm

[AnimeMania]

S01.E01: Love or War

Young lovers Camille and Valmont fight for a better life but find themselves at war with each other.

Premiere Date: November 6, 2022   9:00pm  Starz

[Juneau Gal]

Wow, I am really surprised by the lack of traffic on this forum. I have not ever seen the movie Dangerous Liaisons, so I was looking forward to reading people who have seen the film takes on this prelude.
As a stand alone, I enjoyed the episode, though it took me a few beats to realize Pascal and Valmont were the same person. 🤣 

[Glade]

Camille is the same actress who plays Tanya's personal assistant on The White Lotus; that is all I could think about here.  I've read the novel Les Liaisons Dangereuses, and don't see the need for a prequel series, let alone this one.

[CountryGirl]

I read the book eons ago and watched the '88 film and am enjoying this series so far and seeing the backstory on Camille and Valmont. I'm intrigued to watch Camille be turned into an aristocrat by Genevieve. 

[Haleth]

Wow, I didn't even realize that was the same actress.  This is a prequel to Dangerous Liaisons?  It's been decades since I saw the movie, I don't remember anything about it.  I liked this and yes, I was confused for a minute about Pascal and Valmont being the same person too.

18 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I'm intrigued to watch Camille be turned into an aristocrat by Genevieve. 

Who doesn't love a Cinderella story?  Even one when Prince Charming is a lying, blackmailing philanderer? LOL

[AuntieMame]

Other than the names I didn’t feel a lot of connection to either the novel or the 1988 movie, both of which are favorites. I didn’t think the writers were very creative. The prostitute/courtesan rises to the aristocracy is a worn trope and has been done better, at least so far. I was more taken with Camille’s best friend and wondered about her backstory. The actress has a lot of presence.  

I honestly didn’t understand why all of these women were sleeping with Pascal, especially the older ones, not because a woman in middle age wouldn’t like a lover but because she’d be more discriminating in her tastes. The current Marquise de Merteuille seemed especially ridiculous trying to feign a raging passion for Valmont especially when she was such a formidable woman. I could see a man making her lose her judgment with desire but it wouldn’t be this still wet behind the ears Valmont as currently constituted.  

I’ll stick with it for a bit simply because I love the source material but so many things feel off. Camille is a boring trope. I’d rather see a remake of Forever  Amber if we’re going here. Valmont doesn’t have the heft to be a serious lover and heartbreaker, the new Merteuille replacing the old Merteuille could be fun but it isn’t believable. I just can’t believe that Genevieve would leave herself open to blackmail for Valmont. Nor do I believe that the step-mother could scoop the title and fortune for her son from a previous marriage. There are rules to hereditary aristocracies and those rules exist in the law of the land too. It isn’t that simple to displace a first born son for a step-son and unbelievable on so many levels. 

Wow, while writing this I guess I realized there’s a lot to critique. The writing, characterizations and acting range from mediocre to bad and are put together like scenes from a plot wheel. Just turn the knob to discover your next scene! I did love some of the costumes. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by AuntieMame
Just a little housekeeping.

[Juneau Gal]

All in all, I guess I would have rather had a fourth season of Harlots (different network, I know) than this. Which has already been renewed for a second season!

[AuntieMame]

On 11/10/2022 at 10:21 AM, Juneau Gal said:

All in all, I guess I would have rather had a fourth season of Harlots (different network, I know) than this. Which has already been renewed for a second season!

Renewed for a second season after just the pilot? How does that make sense when shows like Britannia, a show like nothing I’ve ever seen before,  are months being renewed? In that case I’m really hoping it improves. 

[ferjy]

On 11/10/2022 at 1:50 AM, AuntieMame said:

Other than the names I didn’t feel a lot of connection to either the novel or the 1988 movie, both of which are favorites. I didn’t think the writers were very creative. The prostitute/courtesan rises to the aristocracy is a worn trope and has been done better, at least so far. I was more taken with Camille’s best friend and wondered about her backstory. The actress has a lot of presence.  

I honestly didn’t understand why all of these women were sleeping with Pascal, especially the older ones, not because a woman in middle age wouldn’t like a lover but because she’d be more discriminating in her tastes. The current Marquise de Merteuille seemed especially ridiculous trying to feign a raging passion for Valmont especially when she was such a formidable woman. I could see a man making her lose her judgment with desire but it wouldn’t be this still wet behind the ears Valmont as currently constituted.  

I’ll stick with it for a bit simply because I love the source material but so many things feel off. Camille is a boring trope. I’d rather see a remake of Forever  Amber if we’re going here. Valmont doesn’t have the heft to be a serious lover and heartbreaker, the new Merteuille replacing the old Merteuille could be fun but it isn’t believable. I just can’t believe that Genevieve would leave herself open to blackmail for Valmont. Nor do I believe that the step-mother could scoop the title and fortune for her son from a previous marriage. There are rules to hereditary aristocracies and those rules exist in the law of the land too. It isn’t that simple to displace a first born son for a step-son and unbelievable on so many levels. 

Wow, while writing this I guess I realized there’s a lot to critique. The writing, characterizations and acting range from mediocre to bad and are put together like scenes from a plot wheel. Just turn the knob to discover your next scene! I did love some of the costumes. 

I agree with all this. It’s a big disappointment so far. It doesn’t help that the actress playing Camille seems to have a tic... I keep blinking my eyes the way she does as I’m watching her! Lesley Manville is the only good thing about this, she would be good reading a phone book, (well, and Paloma Faith is fun), and I agree that I’d have preferred to see Lesley Manville as Lydia again in Harlots instead. I may give it one more episode, as I usually do with new dramas, but it would have to get drastically better to keep on watching. 

[AuntieMame]

I still want to know more about Victoire. I love her costume, still 18th century but not one of the styles we usually see, but the costume codes her as a servant, even though the writing doesn’t. Now we’ve seen a tantalizing glimpse of Victoire rescuing a near dead Camille from the street. Did Victoire work for Jericho already? And if she did, in what capacity because we’ve gotten no hint that she worked as a prostitute in the brothel. If Victoire was a procurer of half dead girls for Jericho, why was she allowed to be Camille’s boon companion? Poor business at the very least. And if Victoire was high enough in the organization not to be forced to work on her back, why is she the seeming best friend in the duo? The writers haven’t thought things through very clearly so far it seems. And they killed Genevieve so one of the two people that were fascinating is gone. 

[Moxie Cat]

On 11/8/2022 at 1:39 AM, Glade said:

Camille is the same actress who plays Tanya's personal assistant on The White Lotus; that is all I could think about here.

Portia on the White Lotus was played by Haley Lu Richardson, and Camille is played by an actress named Alice Englert. BUT I had to laugh when I read your comment because I thought exactly the same thing through the ENTIRE first episode!

Also, something about her speaking patterns reminded me of Jennifer Ehle, so my other guess while watching was that Ehle was the actress's mom. (Englert's mom is actually director Jane Campion.)