S03.E04: Sin City

[DittyDotDot]

Sam and Dean investigate strange happenings in Elizabethville, Ohio and find a town full of sin.

 

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I don't know what it is with this episode, I just don't care for it. I think it might be the tone whiplash and possibly the idea that the writers have never heard tale of Vegas. The first part is all laughs and giggles and the second is all angst and talking. I did notice this time that there were some really nice camera angles and moves and some nice little details that had escaped me before since I usually passively watch it while doing other things. There was a cute little moment when they first are in the hotel room talking with Richie where Dean stacks his quarters on the Magic Fingers machine that I never noticed before. Speaking of Richie, what were they trying to do with him anyway? And the whole thing with Casey being too hot for Richie? Speaking of Casey...now that's an interesting demon chick, IMO. I kinda wish she had lived and Ruby died in this one. Oh and speaking of Ruby, how did she and Bobby fix the Colt? I don't have to be told everything to follow along, but that was actually interesting to me--how the Colt works, that is. And I the whole part of Sam killing Casey means that he's come back wrong. I know it's something that got dropped, but I didn't really see the connection to Sam being a revenant or that is was all that cold in the way he simply shot her like he did the other demon. And Sin City or not, I highly doubt if one person built a few bars and strip joints and entire town would follow suit, maybe I just have more faith in people than I should though.

 

Okay, some good to end things on...the beginning scene with Dean razing Bobby was charming and Sam throwing holy water on Trotter only to find out he wasn't possessed was humorous. I also liked some of the talking between Dean and Casey, but thought it may have drug on a little too long.

 

Overall, not their best effort, but not their worst either...by far, IMO.

 

 

ETA: I forgot to mention this episode has one of my most hated horror troupes...the screaming lady. When that nun screams at the top of the episode, I just can't muster more than an eyeroll. I know Supernatural loves it's screaming ladies, but I was reminded of how much I hate it when watching this one.

[GirlyGeek]

This episode always... Intrigues me. I paid attention all the way through for once and this line always strikes me:

"you don’t get it. all you got to do is nudge humans in the right direction. some whiskey here, a hooker there, and they’ll walk right into hell with big, fat smiles on their faces."

I actually have very little faith in humans, and a healthy dose of sarcastic nature, and find this quote very true to how I think, lol

I liked Casey. And I liked their talk and what it taught us about Dean. He's being a lying liar about not being scared, his false bravado about 'feeling free' knowing he's only got a year. We all knew that, but it was good to watch him try to lie to himself.

I also thought they were reaching with Sam being cold killing those demons. He has a gun and means to kill them... Why not? I mean he killed Jake just 2 months earlier, and they lost most of the 7 deadly sin's meat suits without whinging about it too much... They just haven't decided yet how much hand wringing their gonna do about killing demons and the bodies they wear, I guess. Since we know where that ends up

kill them all, no more worrying about doing excorcisms, even when they easily could have

it seems like a useless worry now.

[AwesomO4000]

I also thought they were reaching with Sam being cold killing those demons. He has a gun and means to kill them... Why not?

 

I pretty much agree. And it bugged me a little with how the tone was presenting the situation and how it was presenting Dean here. He has been "Ruby's a demon, so of course we kill her" ever since he found out, yet here he's getting chatty with a demon and buying all her crap - after she just finished killing his friend in "self defense?" Um no, in my opinion: you lured him there with the promise of nooky and instead of, say, locking him up or tying him up and leaving town, you killed him. There is no "self-defense" there. You killed him because you're a demon and didn't give a crap. And keeping Casey's body in good shape is benefiting Casey how? So that when (if) you decide to leave her she'll live a nice long time remembering her trauma and how you killed people in her body? I didn't like that Dean was buying her crap and the implied episode tone that all of a sudden because Dean is intrigued by the demon, maybe she shouldn't have been killed by cold-hearted Sam.

 

So yeah, I didn't  like either of those impressions 1) This demon was somehow worthy of a "second chance" because it was Dean who found her interesting and 2) That it appeared that Dean was buying Casey's crap and / or Casey's delusion (if she really did think she was "doing good" - at least in her estimation). At the least Dean should have disavowed her of that notion since she murdered his acquaintance.

[sarthaz]

These are all good points, but I'd like to counter with this: Casey is really hot.  So ... 

[bettername2come]

Dean flirts with a girl with my name, but she spells it wrong, she's possessed by a demon and Sam kills her. Tragic really.

I liked Richie. I thought he and Dean played off each other well and I like people who don't fit the standard hunter model.

I loved the teasing between Bobby and the boys in their first scene. They really started pushing the closeness of Bobby to the boys much more in season 3 and since I loved Bobby from his first appearance that made me happy. Great use of "Run Through the Jungle" as they arrive in town. Sam being wrong, throwing holy water and then being embarrassed and then just taking the bullets from the gun and leaving is far funnier than it should be. I liked Dean being clever in his setting up Casey when he realized Richie went missing. Less clever not memorizing the exorcism. I'd forgotten the line about Dean wanting to believe in God. Nice continuation of that thread changing after "Houses of the Holy." And I forgot that this episode brought up Lucifer for the first time and named Azazel. They should've picked up on the evil priest faster. 

"What do you want?" "Peace on earth, a new shirt!" I have to give it to Ruby/Katie Cassidy. That one made me laugh. It was interesting seeing her and Bobby work together. 

The hotel actually has a mirror on the ceiling! Bwahahaha.

[AwesomO4000]

On 6/4/2017 at 9:00 PM, bettername2come said:

I liked Richie. I thought he and Dean played off each other well and I like people who don't fit the standard hunter model.

Warning! Semi-rant ahead. Proceed with caution. You have been warned:

I liked Ritchie, too, that's why I was a bit annoyed at Dean seemingly flirting with Casey. Reiterating and expanding a bit on my post above, I was thinking, "Dude, she just killed your friend - who you said you buried - do not be distracted by the pretty package." Sure, Casey gave the whole "we have our beliefs, just like you do" sympathy ploy thing, but when your "beliefs" include worshiping Lucifer, and killing people - like I'm going to believe that Richie was seriously a threat to super strong Casey - then no, "live and let live" doesn't apply. Even her "I wouldn't want to hurt this body" thing was questionable... so you don't want to hurt the girl's body, but it's okay to force her to be a prisoner in that body while you kill people with it... oookay: priorities really messed up alert. So no, Show, just because Dean "bonds" with the demon instead of Sam does not make her "cuddly," so stop trying to make me sympathize with her. It ain't working, and it makes Dean look like a hypocrite later on when he talks about Ruby.

End of semi-rant.

[Katy M]

@AwesomO4000

Taking my response to all episodes thread.

[DeeDee79]

On 6/29/2017 at 4:26 PM, AwesomO4000 said:

Warning! Semi-rant ahead. Proceed with caution. You have been warned:

I liked Ritchie, too, that's why I was a bit annoyed at Dean seemingly flirting with Casey. Reiterating and expanding a bit on my post above, I was thinking, "Dude, she just killed your friend - who you said you buried - do not be distracted by the pretty package." Sure, Casey gave the whole "we have our beliefs, just like you do" sympathy ploy thing, but when your "beliefs" include worshiping Lucifer, and killing people - like I'm going to believe that Richie was seriously a threat to super strong Casey - then no, "live and let live" doesn't apply. Even her "I wouldn't want to hurt this body" thing was questionable... so you don't want to hurt the girl's body, but it's okay to force her to be a prisoner in that body while you kill people with it... oookay: priorities really messed up alert. So no, Show, just because Dean "bonds" with the demon instead of Sam does not make her "cuddly," so stop trying to make me sympathize with her. It ain't working, and it makes Dean look like a hypocrite later on when he talks about Ruby.

End of semi-rant.

I didn't necessarily see it as Dean being a hypocrite for bonding with a demon; it was just another example of OOC writing to further the plot so Dean could be in a position to be told about how Sam was the intended ruler post Azazel and to illustrate how Sam may have been resurrected "wrong" when he killed her as shown by Deans brief convo with Bobby at the end. 

[AwesomO4000]

6 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

I didn't necessarily see it as Dean being a hypocrite for bonding with a demon; it was just another example of OOC writing to further the plot so Dean could be in a position to be told about how Sam was the intended ruler post Azazel and to illustrate how Sam may have been resurrected "wrong" when he killed her as shown by Deans brief convo with Bobby at the end. 

I agree that's what the purpose was. I just think it was hamfistedly done for the very reasons you gave. It made little sense for Dean to have a nice chat with the demon - except as you said the plot said so. Because for me, if I bought that Dean would have a nice chat, it either made Dean look hypocritical or like a complete horndog because he was ignoring that she was a demon because she was pretty. That's why I said that the whole thing didn't work for me. Neither did the "ooh Sam is so dark" aspect of it, because Casey was a demon, and with the Father demon complicating things, an exorcism was going to be too risky, so killing the demons was the best way to save other potential future victims, so I didn't see Sam shooting her as "wrong" as they maybe intended. So I agree that Dean shouldn't be seen as a hypocrite - which is why the episode annoys me for creating the situation in the first place where I even had to question it. In that case, I guess Dean is a horndog is the lesser of two evils..

Basically I was trying to say that I didn't buy what appeared to be the writers' premise that Sam/Ruby = questionable and dark while Dean/Casey = not so bad and aww poor Casey, because both Ruby and Casey were questionable and horrible. They may have wanted me to sympathize with Casey to further the "did Sam come back wrong?" thing, but since I didn't  sympathize with Casey - at all - for me, it didn't work and I didn't buy that Dean would have been idly chatting with her, especially during this time in the series where demons were pretty much evil with no shades of gray. And if Dean didn't buy Ruby - who saved their asses - as anything but evil, it made no sense to me that he'd buy anything Casey was selling either, especially when he knew that she had just killed Richie and there was no reason to buy her crappy excuse of "self defense" for doing so.

Sorry my rant was a little muddled and didn't make it clear that I was blaming Show (i.i the writers) rather than it being something that I thought Dean would actually be doing Which is why I tried to call the show out in my rant.

[DittyDotDot]

3 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I agree that's what the purpose was. I just think it was hamfistedly done for the very reasons you gave. It made little sense for Dean to have a nice chat with the demon - except as you said the plot said so. Because for me, if I bought that Dean would have a nice chat, it either made Dean look hypocritical or like a complete horndog because he was ignoring that she was a demon because she was pretty. That's why I said that the whole thing didn't work for me. Neither did the "ooh Sam is so dark" aspect of it, because Casey was a demon, and with the Father demon complicating things, an exorcism was going to be too risky, so killing the demons was the best way to save other potential future victims, so I didn't see Sam shooting her as "wrong" as they maybe intended. So I agree that Dean shouldn't be seen as a hypocrite - which is why the episode annoys me for creating the situation in the first place where I even had to question it. In that case, I guess Dean is a horndog is the lesser of two evils..

Basically I was trying to say that I didn't buy what appeared to be the writers' premise that Sam/Ruby = questionable and dark while Dean/Casey = not so bad and aww poor Casey, because both Ruby and Casey were questionable and horrible. They may have wanted me to sympathize with Casey to further the "did Sam come back wrong?" thing, but since I didn't  sympathize with Casey - at all - for me, it didn't work and I didn't buy that Dean would have been idly chatting with her, especially during this time in the series where demons were pretty much evil with no shades of gray. And if Dean didn't buy Ruby - who saved their asses - as anything but evil, it made no sense to me that he'd buy anything Casey was selling either, especially when he knew that she had just killed Richie and there was no reason to buy her crappy excuse of "self defense" for doing so.

Sorry my rant was a little muddled and didn't make it clear that I was blaming Show (i.i the writers) rather than it being something that I thought Dean would actually be doing Which is why I tried to call the show out in my rant.

I don't think, in any way, the show was saying this demon was acceptable while Ruby wasn't simply because this was Dean's demon and Ruby was Sam's. I thought the point wasn't to contrast the demons, but to show them in parallel. IMO, both demons were taking their own situations and using them to their benefit--ya know, they both were acting like demons. I always thought the point was you shouldn't talk to demons because, given enough time, they'll worm their way in and mess with you.

So, yeah, Dean was somewhat hypocritical in the sense that he'd become a bit more sympathetic to her, but I don't think he ever forgot she was s demon. And, I never once thought Dean was advocating they just let the demon chick walk. IMO, Dean's objection wasn't that Sam killed her, it was that he was so willing to do it when, in the past, Sam had struggled with the killing instead of the saving. They may not have made it cold and calculating enough for it to read as something was wrong with Sam, but my read on it has always been that Dean took it as a sign that something was different about Sam if he was so willing to kill the demon without even trying to save the host. And, since Yellow Eyes had planted the seed Sam had come back wrong, it's starting to take root in Dean now. 

Actually, thinking on it now, it reminds me of 

Spoiler

Alex Annie Alexis Ann when Sam questions Dean on his look-at-me-bitch vamp kill. It's not that Sam had an objection to Dean killing the vamp, but that he did it in such a show-offy and kill-crazy way that it set off alarm bells that something was amiss with Dean.

Edited July 1, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[DeeDee79]

5 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't think, in any way, the show was saying this demon was acceptable while Ruby wasn't simply because this was Dean's demon and Ruby was Sam's. I thought the point wasn't to contrast the demons, but to show them in parallel. IMO, both demons were taking their own situations and using them to their benefit--ya know, they both were acting like demons. I always thought the point was you shouldn't talk to demons because, given enough time, they'll worm their way in and mess with you.

So, yeah, Dean was somewhat hypocritical in the sense that he'd become a bit more sympathetic to her, but I don't think he ever forgot she was s demon. And, I never once thought Dean was advocating they just let the demon chick walk. IMO, Dean's objection wasn't that Sam killed her, it was that he was so willing to do it when, in the past, Sam had struggled with the killing instead of the saving. They may not have made it cold and calculating enough for it to read as something was wrong with Sam, but my read on it has always been that Dean took it as a sign that something was different about Sam if he was so willing to kill the demon without even trying to save the host. And, since Yellow Eyes had planted the seed Sam had come back wrong, it's starting to take root in Dean now. 

Actually, thinking on it now, it reminds me of 

  Hide contents

Alex Annie Alexis Ann when Sam questions Dean on his look-at-me-bitch vamp kill. It's not that Sam had an objection to Dean killing the vamp, but that he did it in such a show-offy and kill-crazy way that it set off alarm bells that something was amiss with Dean.

I consign your entire post! 

[The Companion]

On 8/18/2014 at 8:22 AM, DittyDotDot said:

Sam and Dean investigate strange happenings in Elizabethville, Ohio and find a town full of sin.

___________________________________________________________

I don't know what it is with this episode, I just don't care for it. I think it might be the tone whiplash and possibly the idea that the writers have never heard tale of Vegas. The first part is all laughs and giggles and the second is all angst and talking. I did notice this time that there were some really nice camera angles and moves and some nice little details that had escaped me before since I usually passively watch it while doing other things. There was a cute little moment when they first are in the hotel room talking with Richie where Dean stacks his quarters on the Magic Fingers machine that I never noticed before. Speaking of Richie, what were they trying to do with him anyway? And the whole thing with Casey being too hot for Richie? Speaking of Casey...now that's an interesting demon chick, IMO. I kinda wish she had lived and Ruby died in this one. Oh and speaking of Ruby, how did she and Bobby fix the Colt? I don't have to be told everything to follow along, but that was actually interesting to me--how the Colt works, that is. And I the whole part of Sam killing Casey means that he's come back wrong. I know it's something that got dropped, but I didn't really see the connection to Sam being a revenant or that is was all that cold in the way he simply shot her like he did the other demon. And Sin City or not, I highly doubt if one person built a few bars and strip joints and entire town would follow suit, maybe I just have more faith in people than I should though.

Okay, some good to end things on...the beginning scene with Dean razing Bobby was charming and Sam throwing holy water on Trotter only to find out he wasn't possessed was humorous. I also liked some of the talking between Dean and Casey, but thought it may have drug on a little too long.

Overall, not their best effort, but not their worst either...by far, IMO.

ETA: I forgot to mention this episode has one of my most hated horror troupes...the screaming lady. When that nun screams at the top of the episode, I just can't muster more than an eyeroll. I know Supernatural loves it's screaming ladies, but I was reminded of how much I hate it when watching this one.

Totally agree. The scream was particularly overdone horror scream and campy. I don't necessarily mind a big horror movie scream, but this was particularly cheesy.

I really enjoyed the multiple misdirected holy water splashes but most of this episode was just okay for me for the reasons already identified. 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

I really enjoyed the multiple misdirected holy water splashes but most of this episode was just okay for me for the reasons already identified. 

I like this episode, but it wasn't until a rewatch that I notice how much of the episode is just Dean and Casey having a conversation.  But, it's a good one.  We got quite a bit of info.  And, I don't know why Sam shooting the demons was a big deal.  They were demons. It is what they do. 

I have more of an issue with Bobby shooting Ruby when he was pretty sure it wouldn't kill her.  Her "meatsuit" may have been still alive.  Which is why stabbing and shooting demons for no reason bugs me.

[The Companion]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I like this episode, but it wasn't until a rewatch that I notice how much of the episode is just Dean and Casey having a conversation.  But, it's a good one.  We got quite a bit of info.  And, I don't know why Sam shooting the demons was a big deal.  They were demons. It is what they do. 

I have more of an issue with Bobby shooting Ruby when he was pretty sure it wouldn't kill her.  Her "meatsuit" may have been still alive.  Which is why stabbing and shooting demons for no reason bugs me.

I did like the world building, so to speak. The establishment that the demons are cross purposes. The demon religion and romance. It gives the demons depth beyond: we are demons and we do bad things.

Totally agree on shooting the meatsuit. It isn't like he doesn't know what will happen to the possessed woman. To shoot her so carelessly is pretty awful.

[DeeDee79]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I have more of an issue with Bobby shooting Ruby when he was pretty sure it wouldn't kill her.  Her "meatsuit" may have been still alive.  Which is why stabbing and shooting demons for no reason bugs me.

Especially since it was Bobby that pointed out to Dean in season one that Meg was a human being possessed by a demon and warned him against harming the vessel.