S03.E05: The Last Time To Look On This World Of Lies

[paulvdb]

Quote

Did you know chimpanzees are an endangered species largely because of human activity? But you can help by supporting construction costs for Crimson Countess’s Chimp Country! This beautiful refuge for chimpanzees will feature a banana plantation, four daily stunt shows, and a petting zoo! And when you donate, you’ll be entered to win a private video chat with Crimson Countess! Donate today!

Premiere date: June 17, 2022

[gonzosgirrl]

I'm happy for Kimiko and scared for Frenchie. And yeah, I know I'm supposed to think Soldier Boy is a bad guy, but lordy he was screwed over big time. I think they are all in big trouble. Debauchery and misogyny don't deserve a death sentence or thirty years of torture. To find out after all those years that his girlfriend/team not only betrayed him, they did it for free? Yeah, I'd have torched the bitch, too.

And Maeve, you are indeed brave, but I hope it didn't cost you everything.

Did the SPN fans catch the easter eggs? I got one immediately but the other had to be pointed out to me.

Spoiler

The date on the video of Soldier Boy being experimented on was January 24th - Dean Winchester's birthday (as well as Erik Kripke's wife).  @ILoveReading pointed out the second one to me: the iconic 'we have work to do' trunk lid scene is classic Supernatural.

[Evie]

The parallels between Soldier Boy and Homelander were there but Soldier Boy seemed to actually feel something for Crimson Countess unlike Homelander with Maeve. Soldier Boy seems more like a giant asshole with superpowers while Homelander is just a psychopath. 

So Soldier Boy can take away a Supe's powers for good? Interesting.

Given what happened with his previous girlfriend and how emasculated he feels, Hughie's storyline makes sense, but I hate it. 

The foreshadowing has been all over the place that either Frenchie or Kimiko are going to die. After this episode, my bet is on Frenchie, and I hate it. 

Is MM's wife okay with her new boyfriend's love for Homelander? You'd think she'd be seeing the red flags.

I loved the Legend. 

[DeeDee79]

24 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Did the SPN fans catch the easter eggs? I got one immediately but the other had to be pointed out to me.

  Hide contents

The date on the video of Soldier Boy being experimented on was January 24th - Dean Winchester's birthday (as well as Erik Kripke's wife).  @ILoveReading pointed out the second one to me: the iconic 'we have work to do' trunk lid scene is classic Supernatural.

Spoiler

I didn't catch the January 24th reference but I definitely thought that the trunk lid scene was a shout out to Supernatural 😊

[BabySpinach]

26 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm happy for Kimiko and scared for Frenchie. And yeah, I know I'm supposed to think Soldier Boy is a bad guy, but lordy he was screwed over big time. I think they are all in big trouble. Debauchery and misogyny don't deserve a death sentence or thirty years of torture. To find out after all those years that his girlfriend/team not only betrayed him, they did it for free? Yeah, I'd have torched the bitch, too.

And Maeve, you are indeed brave, but I hope it didn't cost you everything.

Did the SPN fans catch the easter eggs? I got one immediately but the other had to be pointed out to me.

  Hide contents

The date on the video of Soldier Boy being experimented on was January 24th - Dean Winchester's birthday (as well as Erik Kripke's wife).  @ILoveReading pointed out the second one to me: the iconic 'we have work to do' trunk lid scene is classic Supernatural.

In most movies/TV shows, the character who's tortured for three decades and then embarks on a quest of revenge against those who put him there would be the protagonist, and every member of the audience would be cheering for him. I know Soldier Boy's probably going to do some heinous things in the following episodes, but it's not going to hit the same as Homelander's despicable manchild psychopathy ie. the kind where he's long overdue to be knocked down several pegs. I'm still rooting for Soldier Boy to kick the shit out of him, as well as anyone else involved in the former's imprisonment.

[DeeDee79]

26 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

In most movies/TV shows, the character who's tortured for three decades and then embarks on a quest of revenge against those who put him there would be the protagonist, and every member of the audience would be cheering for him. I know Soldier Boy's probably going to do some heinous things in the following episodes, but it's not going to hit the same as Homelander's despicable manchild psychopathy ie. the kind where he's long overdue to be knocked down several pegs. I'm still rooting for Soldier Boy to kick the shit out of him, as well as anyone else involved in the former's imprisonment.

54 minutes ago, Evie said:

The parallels between Soldier Boy and Homelander were there but Soldier Boy seemed to actually feel something for Crimson Countess unlike Homelander with Maeve. Soldier Boy seems more like a giant asshole with superpowers while Homelander is just a psychopath. 

I just finished watching and I agree with the both of you. At the moment I feel for Soldier Boy as he's escaped into a totally different world and the one person that he thought cared about him hated him the entire time. It's completely different from the scene with Homelander and Maeve where he was his usual condescending self even while he said that he "loved" her. I don't want to feel for Soldier Boy because I love MM but damn Jensen really knows how to evoke compassion even when he's the bad guy . SPN fans will understand because we still loved him during his MOC and Demon!Dean SL's. Since Black Noir is the only one that we now of right now that's still around from Payback I wonder what his reaction will be to Soldier Boy.

I have mixed feeling about Butcher and Hughie. I understand why they did what they did. Butcher knows that MM wants vengeance and is willing to be the bad guy so MM doesn't have to be even if it involves methods that he doesn't approve of. Hughie has been feeling useless since the first season both with the Boys and with Starlight and so I get his wanting to feel stronger. I can't be too mad at either of them for their decisions but I do think that if they had actually talked to the ones that would be most affected by their actions instead of springing them on them they wouldn't look like such assholes right now. 

I loved how unsettled Homelander was by the news footage. He obviously can tell that a Supe with powers on his level did the damage and didn't seem too eager to find out who he was. He also seemed to have more control over those powers by the time he found Crimson Countess. I can't wait for their inevitable meeting especially now that he's agreed to a team up with Butcher.

I'm also interested in what's going on with A-Train's story. It sucks that his brother was paralyzed by Blue Hawk because he's the only person that A-Train actually cares about. I don't agree with Starlight that everyone hates him though. He and Deep seem to be at the same level of indifference within the team right now and she's the only one that truly hates the both of them. I'm surprised and impressed that the show is tackling the brutality towards POC and interested and wary at how it's going to play out.

Edited June 17, 2022 by DeeDee79

[Aithne]

Intense episode. So much to talk about. And yet all I can do is try to breathe, knowing I have to make it to at least next episode to know if they're gonna off that sweet boy who never did anything wrong in his life (aside from bank robbing, contract killing, minor things...) 

Seriously though, this was an amazing episode for a lot of reasons, but all I'll be thinking about this week is Kimiko singing about her man and that kiss and him quietly leaving so she wouldn't be around when Nina came for him, and Kimiko hugging her knees as the minutes ticked by and he never came back. 

 Kripke, you asshole. I don't trust you one bit. 

[Myrelle]

As much as I'm enjoying all the stories, I'm living for the Soldier Boy stuff, at this point.

38 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

In most movies/TV shows, the character who's tortured for three decades and then embarks on a quest of revenge against those who put him there would be the protagonist, and every member of the audience would be cheering for him. I know Soldier Boy's probably going to do some heinous things in the following episodes, but it's not going to hit the same as Homelander's despicable manchild psychopathy ie. the kind where he's long overdue to be knocked down several pegs. I'm still rooting for Soldier Boy to kick the shit out of him, as well as anyone else involved in the former's imprisonment.

Ditto to this.

I kind of knew that Butcher was playing MM.

And I'm really glad that MM didn't take the V. 

[DeeDee79]

6 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

As much as I'm enjoying all the stories, I'm living for the Soldier Boy stuff, at this point.

Ditto to this.

I kind of knew that Butcher was playing MM.

And I'm really glad that MM didn't take the V. 

It’s interesting that MM didn’t take the V since he was basically born with it in his blood in the comics. It’ll be interesting to see if he changes his mind or sticks to his guns because of his father.

[Myrelle]

16 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

It’s interesting that MM didn’t take the V since he was basically born with it in his blood in the comics. It’ll be interesting to see if he changes his mind or sticks to his guns because of his father.

Yeah, I'm wondering if he'll be able to hold out too.

I hope so, but I wouldn't bet on it. 

He's going to be so pissed at Butcher.

[DeeDee79]

14 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Yeah, I'm wondering if he'll be able to hold out too.

I hope so, but I wouldn't bet on it. 

He's going to be so pissed at Butcher.

Rightfully so but I don’t like how they’re all so divided from each other right now. To add to that Hughie is definitely in the doghouse with Starlight. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by DeeDee79

[mac123x]

I stopped watching Supernatural around season 7, so I forgot how good an actor Jensen Ackles is.  That scene with CC was heartbreaking.  I also liked his quick reaction to seeing Jim Beaver on a poster.

What popped up behind Maeve at the end of her conversation with Homelander?  Was that Black Noir? 

[MAK]

IA with everyone here.

Not a lot of Homelander, but his cracks are growing. He's realizing that he might be in over his head in some aspects. He is intelligent enough to know that all the board members and employees are just falling at his feet because they're scared. And Ashley...the actress is so good!

Glad Kimiko is better, she seemed so happy to have lost her powers. But, of course, now we have to stress about Frenchie's fate. Karen is really talented.  Love watching her scenes, singing, dancing, fighting, everything.

Feel bad for MM. He wanted to confront Soldier Boy so much. Maybe it's better if he deals with later? Still wrong of Butcher. Butcher and Maeve? Maeve missing? So much going on!

Hughie is going to lose Annie. He picked Soldier Boy over her, just so he can be the "man." Seems toxic masculinity isn't just reserved for the villain from the past.

And why is the villain from the past so sympathetic? He was not frozen and kept in storage. He was kept drugged. He was continually taken out and experimented on.

He was waiting to be rescued by the woman he "loved!" I'm guessing that this is the first and last time Soldier Boy will seem emotionally vulnerable. And wow did Jensen and Lauren kill it!

Quoted loved, because he probably doesn't know what real love is. The era he comes from, and his personal life seem to make him out to be one of those men who just assumes the person in front of them reciprocate their feelings. He is totally oblivious to how others around him are actually reacting to him. If he loves the Countess, then the Countess surely loves him back. And all those affairs/one night stands don't mean anything. It's not a betrayal if you think having sex with a woman you just met is equivalent to having lunch with her.

I feel though that unlike Homelander, Soldier Boy, though entitled and arrogant, wasn't inherently cruel or malicious in his actions.  I also don't think SB's insecurities started until he he hit the 70s/80s. Things are changing but he is not changing with the times. That's why Grace's rejection hurt him, why the Countess's "I hated you. We all did." bothered him so much. 

Yes, in any other story, SB would be the protagonist on the path to redemption. I wonder what we're in for....

I hope they give the origin stories of all the supes.

Maybe A-Train is opening his eyes? And how was the Deep ever taken as a member of the Seven? Except for communicating with sea life, he doesn't seem to have any specific powers to help fight crime? Did they ever have a "mission statement" for the Seven? Was it to fight crime or search/rescue?

[Bergamot]

8 minutes ago, MAK said:

Not a lot of Homelander, but his cracks are growing. He's realizing that he might be in over his head in some aspects. He is intelligent enough to know that all the board members and employees are just falling at his feet because they're scared. And Ashley...the actress is so good!

Homelander’s first Vought board meeting emphasizes how incredibly fragile he is. No matter how much everyone fawns over him and praises him, it is never enough – just one person asking a question that he doesn’t understand and making him feel stupid is enough to drive him to the edge of a homicidal rage. His ego is a black hole of need that can never ever be filled. It reminded me of Antony saying that Homelander is actually the weakest character on the show.

Ashley comes across as almost human in that moment when she mentions her mother at the board meeting, and how she lost her at age 17. (I agree, the actress is doing a great job!) But then she snaps right back to being Homelander’s number one sycophant. Ashley, you need to honestly ask yourself: what would your mother think of you now, and the choices you have made? Is there any chance that Ashley is redeemable? When Starlight is trying to find out about Maeve from her, just for a moment I thought that she had actually gotten through to her ("You don't need powers, you just need to be human!"), but I guess Ashley is just in too deep.
 

[Nick24]

7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Did the SPN fans catch the easter eggs? I got one immediately but the other had to be pointed out to me.

I am not sure, if this was their intent, but I can see some parallels to SPN S3-4. Just look at it:

Spoilers for SPN S3-4

Spoiler

Hughie has some obsession with ''Starlight, I need to save you for once''. Just like Sam in S3 with his desire to save Dean from Hell.

Hughie seems to be addicted to the V now, because it makes him feel stronger. Ditto with Sam's demon blood arc in S4.

Also Hughie has just chosen Soldier Boy over Starlight. Soldier Boy might be Hughie's Ruby.

On the other hand Starlight does not want to be saved at that cost. Just like Dean in S3. 

Also she is trying to put Hughie on the right path. Unsuccessfully. Ditto with Dean in S4.

I wonder whether Kripke could be thinking that way?

Edited June 17, 2022 by Nick24

[PurpleTentacle]

Oh my god, soldier boy looking at that campaign poster of Robert Singer was everything!

Hughie, if your girlfriend asks you to please don't go, you don't go. What are you going to do that the two c****, who clearly are made for each other, can't?

[MAK]

I haven't seen anything with Paul Reiser since Mad About You, and what a great re-introduction! He was awesome as the Legend!

I wonder what the stories are behind all the supes and drug addiction.  Just having nothing to do with too much fame and fortune leading to excess? 

Edited June 17, 2022 by MAK
Typo

[PurpleTentacle]

I really like Frenchy and Kimiko as supporting characters, but I sooo don't care about their solo storyline. It just bores me like crazy and I don't think it's really going anywhere, concerning the greater story arcs. I probably wouldn't mind if this show was dropped all at once, but with a weekly format, I feel cheated out of story that actually matters.

Oh yeah, Seth Rogan as super hero live porn connoisseur? Couldn't have been better casting. Chef's kiss.

8 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Did the SPN fans catch the easter eggs? I got one immediately but the other had to be pointed out to me.

Got the poster. To get the one with the date you really have to be a super fan and not as bad as remembering dates as me. Trunk lid is arguably another.

7 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

I just finished watching and I agree with the both of you. At the moment I feel for Soldier Boy as he's escaped into a totally different world and the one person that he thought cared about him hated him the entire time. It's completely different from the scene with Homelander and Maeve where he was his usual condescending self even while he said that he "loved" her. I don't want to feel for Soldier Boy because I love MM but damn Jensen really knows how to evoke compassion even when he's the bad guy .

I really liked his reaction to him seeing a gay couple openly showing affection. Bewildered for a second but then a look that said "yeah whatever, good for them".

And while I do feel for MM, I have to say: Accidents happen. The question is was he really completely wreckless, like A-Train when he killed Hughie's girlfriend, or was it unavoidable? I guess the answer to that question will determine how I feel about him.

7 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

I'm also interested in what's going on with A-Train's story. It sucks that his brother was paralyzed by Blue Hawk because he's the only person that A-Train actually cares about.

I guess that will be used as a moment for A-Train to wake up and actually do something. But I'm asking myself: Can't A-Train score his brother some V24? If it heals a broken arm in max a few hours, it can probably heal a spine.

Even if he doesn't know that. Giving my disabled brother that wonder drug would be something I'd try.

5 hours ago, mac123x said:

I stopped watching Supernatural around season 7, so I forgot how good an actor Jensen Ackles is.  That scene with CC was heartbreaking.  I also liked his quick reaction to seeing Jim Beaver on a poster.

Then you've missed out. Yeah it never got as good as the first 5 seasons again (and that they couldn't keep the lore straight, after Kripke left, drove me bonkers at times), but there is a lot of campy fun to be had. Season 6 and 7 were just rough.

52 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

Homelander’s first Vought board meeting emphasizes how incredibly fragile he is. No matter how much everyone fawns over him and praises him, it is never enough – just one person asking a question that he doesn’t understand and making him feel stupid is enough to drive him to the edge of a homicidal rage. His ego is a black hole of need that can never ever be filled. It reminded me of Antony saying that Homelander is actually the weakest character on the show.

Yeah. It's not like we didn't know that, but it's always interesting to see it in a different way. Never gets old somehow.

A stable person would have answered that question with something like: "Look I'm not a business person. I'm here more to give my input from the superhero side of things. Why don't you ask our new CEO? - Ashley, would you care to answer?"

18 minutes ago, MAK said:

I wonder what the stories are behind all the supes and drug addiction.  Just having nothing to do with too much fame and fortune leading to excess? 

Fame and power. Pretty much the speach Butcher gave to Maeve. I don't think there is anything physiological behind it.

Edited June 17, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[Chicago Redshirt]

I don't know about you, but I feel like having some Almond Joys and White Claws. JK, the very concept of those seem vile to me. 

I was worried that Butcher had spiked MM's water with Temporary V for a bit...thank goodness it was "only" roofies. I'm glad MM is taking the stand he is, and hope he will hang tough.

I know that they are making a point with the Blue Hawk storyline, but there probably would be a half-dozen cell phone videos showing what actually happened. Also, it seems like Vought would probably have realized that they had an issue with Blue Hawk well before it came to this and dealt with it (especially with Stan Edgar, a Black man, in charge up till recently.)

When SB finds out that Butcher killed his partner Gunpowder-- and I assume he will find out -- will he be pissed, or will the revelation from the Countess that they all hated him soften things a little?

If Homelander literally could smell Butcher all over Maeve because they did the deed, that's pretty gross. So I hope he was just being figurative.

It seems far-fetched that a bunch of Vought employees would have ever tweeted things that could be perceived as anti-Homelander.

Given that Payback was apparently in on getting SB sold over to the Russians, I wonder if Mallory and/or the CIA were complicit too. And why they would be.

[Bergamot]

33 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

If Homelander literally could smell Butcher all over Maeve because they did the deed, that's pretty gross. So I hope he was just being figurative.

My first thought was that Butcher needs to shower more often! To tell the truth, he doesn't seem like the kind of person who wastes a lot of time on his personal hygiene.

But I think Homelander really could smell him on Maeve. Ryan could smell that there was something different about Butcher after he took the Temp-V, couldn't he? And Hughie said that he had to go to the extremes of actually breaking his arm, because if he tried to fake an ailment, Victoria would be able to tell from smelling him.

It is gross, though. It is something that makes you wonder why anyone who knew of this, would ever want to even be near a Supe (besides all the other reasons!)

[Lady Calypso]

Wow, they really went there with Butcher and Maeve, didn't they? I wasn't exactly surprised, but I only got the feeling a minute before it happened and never considered it before, so...good on the show for surprising me. Maeve hasn't been a huge factor this season, but she's gotten to have sex with Butcher, who wants to kill all Supes, and stand up to Homelander, so she's really toeing the line here. Is she trying to sacrifice herself? Because it feels like she's on a spiral that nobody sees because it's subtle and nobody who cares about her is around. Only Annie, at this point.

Homelander being forced into business meetings to run Vought is funnier than I thought. You can already see how he'll run the company into the ground in a few months, especially with firing people and putting the Deep on Crime Analytics.  Deep is such a pathetic character, doing Homelander and Cassandra's biddings. Also, HOW is Cassandra still able to interact with Vought as much as she has? She's just everywhere with Deep, and I would have thought that a civilian like her wouldn't be granted access to places like Crime Analytics. Even last episode, when she was sitting in on the Seven meeting, I found it bizarre. Does she have some power to influence people? Because that's the only explanation I have for her being in on literally every conversation the Deep is involved in if even Homelander lets her in on meetings. 

I did like Hughie being honest with Annie about the Temp V, but she's not wrong in pointing out that it's untested. I think that part factors in to their fight about Hughie taking it, especially when his response is all about saving her. Now, she should realize that Soldier Boy is their only way of beating Homelander, so she really should see that they have to take extreme measures to beat an extreme villain who can only be defeated in a very specific way. But if she's more worried about Hughie's reaction to Temp V, I'm on her side. Hughie likes it too much, AND she's right in that it's untested, so who knows what the long-term side effects are. We already see Hughie able to open a jar with ease that he couldn't before, so that is most definitely a hint that Temp V isn't so temporary.

I like Kimiko and Frenchie, but it feels like they're on their own show right now. And I'm worried about both of their fates.

Soldier Boy is already hinted at as being as bad as Homelander, especially with all these blatant parallels (Maeve/Crimson telling Homelander/SB that they're hated, both being experimented on in labs) and I'm worried that Homelander/SB will team up (albeit temporarily, because no way Homelander works long-term with the person who can neutralize powers), rather than SB taking down Homelander. Both these men working together seems to spell disaster if they're both equally as powerful. And if SB is as big of an asshole as Homelander is (I won't say worse, because Homelander's terrible in all ways, but on the same level), then the world is doomed. 

A-Train's stuff? I guess it's an attempt at a potential redemption, with how Black Hawk is a true racist piece of shit and it's a way to get us to feel bad for A-Train with Nate being injured. But A-Train is also still a piece of shit so unless he's killing Blue Hawk and dying right after, I'm not sure I'm totally invested.  

[PurpleTentacle]

43 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I know that they are making a point with the Blue Hawk storyline, but there probably would be a half-dozen cell phone videos showing what actually happened. Also, it seems like Vought would probably have realized that they had an issue with Blue Hawk well before it came to this and dealt with it (especially with Stan Edgar, a Black man, in charge up till recently.)

There probably are. But would anybody care who doesn't already? It was Antifa afterall. Blue Hawk said so. People who believe in that kind of stuff don't believe in evidence, even if it's 20 videos from 10 different angles.

I think they showed pretty well last episode, that Stan Edgar doesn't give a flying fuck about other black people, when he told Black Noir, that he couldn't unmask, because a black superhero wouldn't play well in the south.

48 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Given that Payback was apparently in on getting SB sold over to the Russians, I wonder if Mallory and/or the CIA were complicit too. And why they would be.

Didn't seem like Mallory knew anything about it in the flashback we saw. We don't have any indication that the flashback was unreliable and why would she lie about taking out a supe? She also said that she decided after this botched mission that she'd do something against them, not before.

9 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

And Hughie said that he had to go to the extremes of actually breaking his arm, because if he tried to fake an ailment, Victoria would be able to tell from smelling him.

Hughie was just afraid that he wasn't a good actor and she had good observation. With homelander the smelling might be literal though. Didn't Maeve shower? Or does that not work?

[Pondlass1]

The acting in this show is superb. Impeccably cast and produced.  Congrats to Eric. Not my usual cup of tea, but I’m sucked right in.

[gonzosgirrl]

I don't feel a bit sorry for A-Train and I hope what is left of his family disowns him at this point (but lets him foot the medical bills). He knew any 'apology' from Blue Hawk was going to be utter, made for tv bullshit. There was nothing redemptive in his actions at all - they were as self-serving as ever, and now his brother is paying the price.  Even if this was finally enough for him to turn on Vought/Homelander, how could Starlight or any of them ever trust him?

3 hours ago, MAK said:

Quoted loved, because he probably doesn't know what real love is. The era he comes from, and his personal life seem to make him out to be one of those men who just assumes the person in front of them reciprocate their feelings. He is totally oblivious to how others around him are actually reacting to him. If he loves the Countess, then the Countess surely loves him back. And all those affairs/one night stands don't mean anything. It's not a betrayal if you think having sex with a woman you just met is equivalent to having lunch with her.

I feel though that unlike Homelander, Soldier Boy, though entitled and arrogant, wasn't inherently cruel or malicious in his actions.  I also don't think SB's insecurities started until he he hit the 70s/80s. Things are changing but he is not changing with the times. That's why Grace's rejection hurt him, why the Countess's "I hated you. We all did." bothered him so much. 

Yes, in any other story, SB would be the protagonist on the path to redemption. I wonder what we're in for..

Co-signing all of this. For me the difference in Soldier Boy and Homelander is that Soldier Boy was a product of his time. Just look at The Legend - there wasn't a word out of his mouth that wasn't pure Rat Pack on Crack toxic masculinity. He is still living in the past every bit as much as Soldier Boy, and he's been in the world all this time. Homelander though, seems to have made conscious choices along the way of becoming the psychopath he is.

I'm curious about SB's nuke power. The blast in Times Square seemed completely involuntary, but it appeared that using it to take out the Countess was all him.

Did anyone catch what name the Countess called Soldier Boy by? I missed it both times I've watched and can't check CC at the moment. Is it the same name that was on the redacted Soldier Boy file that was zaprudered from the preview?

[Bergamot]

3 hours ago, MAK said:

Hughie is going to lose Annie. He picked Soldier Boy over her, just so he can be the "man." Seems toxic masculinity isn't just reserved for the villain from the past.

Yeah, I have a bad feeling about the two of them, even though I have always thought they were so sweet together and I have been rooting for them to make it as a couple. Their relationship has been like a little light shining in the dark world of the show.

But even though I think they really do love each other,  there have been signs of problems before now. Like in this episode, when Hughie has lined up all of Starlight’s favorite food and drink and bath salts in order to cushion the bad news that he is going to give her. It is very cute, but she has been trying to stay alive while dealing with Homelander, she is grieving the horrible death of her friend and feeling guilty that it was her fault, and she really needs to know if they found a weapon they can use in Russia. And in response to all that, Hughie offers her candy? She is not a child. 

And on top of that, he is all “Let us handle this!” when she shows up for the confrontation with Soldier Boy. I think that Hughie really believes what he is saying, when he tells Starlight, “I am doing this for you!” The thing is, I don’t know that I believe it, or at least I don't believe that this is completely the truth. For God’s sake, Hughie, is it really that important to you, that you are able to open the jar yourself rather than having Starlight do it for you?  I liked it when she told him, “I don’t need you to save me, Hughie. I need you.” Hughie needs to stop using her as an excuse for why he wants Supe powers.

[MAK]

11 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Did anyone catch what name the Countess called Soldier Boy by?

Ben.

There are already memes comparing it to the "Ben" in Dark Angel.

Edited June 17, 2022 by MAK
Typo

[Racj82]

10 hours ago, Evie said:

So Soldier Boy can take away a Supe's powers for good? Interesting.

I wouldn't bet on that. I'm sure it's temporary. Which is what they need. 

[Myrelle]

18 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

4 hours ago, MAK said:

Co-signing all of this. For me the difference in Soldier Boy and Homelander is that Soldier Boy was a product of his time. Just look at The Legend - there wasn't a word out of his mouth that wasn't pure Rat Pack on Crack toxic masculinity. He is still living in the past every bit as much as Soldier Boy, and he's been in the world all this time. Homelander though, seems to have made conscious choices along the way of becoming the psychopath he is.

I'm curious about SB's nuke power. The blast in Times Square seemed completely involuntary, but it appeared that using it to take out the Countess was all him.

Did anyone catch what name the Countess called Soldier Boy by? I missed it both times I've watched and can't check CC at the moment. Is it the same name that was on the redacted Soldier Boy file that was zaprudered from the preview

She called him Ben.

Ans yes, he seems to have gained some control over his new power. 

My feelings about Homelander and Soldier Boy is that Homelander runs cold and Soldier Boy runs hot. Homelander is dispassionate on the surface, while Soldier Boy allows his passion and passions to run free. In fact, his passion matches his new power in many ways.

Oh, and ITA about The Legend too.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Myrelle

[MAK]

1 minute ago, Bergamot said:

And on top of that, he is all “Let us handle this!” when she shows up for the confrontation with Soldier Boy. I think that Hughie really believes what he is saying, when he tells Starlight, “I am doing this for you!” The thing is, I don’t know that I believe it, or at least I don't believe that this is completely the truth. For God’s sake, Hughie, is it really that important to you, that you are able to open the jar yourself rather than having Starlight do it for you?  I liked it when she told him, “I don’t need you to save me, Hughie. I need you.” Hughie needs to stop using her as an excuse for why he wants Supe powers.

Anyone get flashbacks of the SPN scene in 4.21? 

[Racj82]

10 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

I don't agree with Starlight that everyone hates him though. He and Deep seem to be at the same level of indifference within the team right now and she's the only one that truly hates the both of them. I'm surprised and impressed that the show is tackling the brutality towards POC and interested and wary at how it's going to play out

I think you are getting caught up on the word hate. Starlight's main point is that pretty much no one really likes them. No one in the seven does. They are useful to Homelander as lackeys. That's it. A Train only had his brother. They both have no family to speak of past that. The Deep's wife seems to just enjoy the power she holds now. They are the two least beloved members of the group. At least, Black Noir is respected. That's what she was getting at.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Racj82

[Racj82]

I still don't really care about Soldier Boy like that. I'm sure he treated Crimson like shit when he was around even if he did care. His situations sucks. I don't hate him. I'm just not overly sympathetic to him. I never put him and Homelander on the same playing field. His biggest crime, as far as we know, is whatever happened to MM dad but we never saw that. Unlike Homelander who we see do heinous shit every week and Stormfront who wore her disgusting qualities on her sleeve. We also flat out saw her commit hate crimes. We haven't seen Soldier Boy do anything but be a typical  asshole born from his time period. I think that is by design. He never was evil. Just an ass.

[Racj82]

15 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

But even though I think they really do love each other,  there have been signs of problems before now. Like in this episode, when Hughie has lined up all of Starlight’s favorite food and drink and bath salts in order to cushion the bad news that he is going to give her. It is very cute, but she has been trying to stay alive while dealing with Homelander, she is grieving the horrible death of her friend and feeling guilty that it was her fault, and she really needs to know if they found a weapon they can use in Russia. And in response to all that, Hughie offers her candy? She is not a child. 

What else is he supposed to do?

Loved ones often supply others with their go to treats when they are going through a tough time or in morning. Adults do this.

Instead of looking at it negatively, you can look at it as Hughey knowing what she likes and trying his best to buck her up a bit. 

My issue is that Hughey, after all this time, still has never learned what she needs from him. What really brought them together. Being there. Just being there. Not trying to fix everything. Just being there. I know taking down Homelander is important. But, from Hughey, she doesn't need saving. 

[MAK]

3 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

My issue is that Hughey, after all this time, still has never learned what she needs from him. What really brought them together. Being there. Just being there. Not trying to fix everything. Just being there. I know taking down Homelander is important. But, from Hughey, she doesn't need saving. 

She even confessed to not being comfortable showing her strength and skills to romantic partners. And supposedly Hughie was ok with her being stronger.

[Bergamot]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

A-Train's stuff? I guess it's an attempt at a potential redemption, with how Black Hawk is a true racist piece of shit and it's a way to get us to feel bad for A-Train with Nate being injured. But A-Train is also still a piece of shit so unless he's killing Blue Hawk and dying right after, I'm not sure I'm totally invested.  

This would be the best possible ending for A-Train's story, to have him kill Blue Hawk and then die.

As for The Deep, I don't know why exactly, but his selfishness and shallowness grow more loathsome to me in every episode. I can't picture a redemption for him, because he seems like such a shallow, empty person. His name should be The Shallows rather than The Deep.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

There probably are. But would anybody care who doesn't already? It was Antifa afterall. Blue Hawk said so. People who believe in that kind of stuff don't believe in evidence, even if it's 20 videos from 10 different angles.

I think they showed pretty well last episode, that Stan Edgar doesn't give a flying fuck about other black people, when he told Black Noir, that he couldn't unmask, because a black superhero wouldn't play well in the south.

Didn't seem like Mallory knew anything about it in the flashback we saw. We don't have any indication that the flashback was unreliable and why would she lie about taking out a supe? She also said that she decided after this botched mission that she'd do something against them, not before.

I am sure that there are some people who would believe whatever Blue Hawk might say regardless of the evidence to the contrary. But I don't think it is likely to be a majority of people, or even a large minority of people. And the people who would care that Blue Hawk snapped so much at mild argument that he injured at least three people would care a lot and then straight up lied about it would care a lot. Blue Hawk at that point would be a corporate liability rather than an asset.

1980s Stan Edgar-as-junior-executive saying that Black Noir can't unmask because it would alienate Southerners doesn't necessarily have much to do with a) 1980s Stan Edgar's personal allegiance/empathy with Blacks b) 2020s Stan Edgar-as-CEO's position. 1980's Stan might just consider it a fact of life that Black Noir's personal desire to go unmasked has to be outweighed both by the alienation that Southerners would have and also that ninjas are cool. He may just be parroting what the corporate line is. Or his sentiment about the constraints BN has to operate under may have nothing to do with how he feels about the Black community in general. We can't really extrapolate from that what level of empathy he might have for the Black community, if any. It also may be that Stan's views on things evolved in the roughly 30-40 years since that incident, or that now that he's in power, he's freer to say and do what he wants.

But more to the point, I do think as a savvy man who happens to be Black, Stan Edgar should have been aware that Blue Hawk was stirring up resentment among the Black community, question whether it made sense financially, and take corrective steps. If not him, then others at Vought. But who knows, maybe the metrics said that Blue Hawk's popularity among whites more than balanced off against his negatives in the Black community.

I know that the convention is that what is shown in a flashback is what actually happened. But it doesn't jibe with what Crimson Countess said that she and Payback were in on it. It seems like a very elaborate setup to kill all those people and to risk your own when you could arrange for a much cleaner backstabbing of Soldier Boy than what was shown.

[AntFTW]

I'm selling my Vought shares.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, MAK said:

She even confessed to not being comfortable showing her strength and skills to romantic partners. And supposedly Hughie was ok with her being stronger.

Likely he was ok with it before he had to live with it.

Toxic masculinity runs very deep in our society and has for many, many years. Sometimes women too, as well as other men, are even enamoured with facets of it. BDE came from somewhere, after all.

I'm loving the many facets of it that Kripke and co. and this wonderful cast are portraying. The layers and the nuances are sending me, tbh.

I'm loving this season like no other so far.

[Myrelle]

20 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I know that the convention is that what is shown in a flashback is what actually happened. But it doesn't jibe with what Crimson Countess said that she and Payback were in on it. It seems like a very elaborate setup to kill all those people and to risk your own when you could arrange for a much cleaner backstabbing of Soldier Boy than what was shown

I hope that what went down in Nicaragua is explained better. I'm a bit confused as to how much the CIA knew of what was going to happen.  

I think Mallory had no idea, but clearly Stan Edgar and all of the supes, except Gunpowder, were with him. That was stated. 

But was it the Russians who instigated things or was it Vought, all on their own, or was it Vought with the help of the CIA. 

My big question is who instigated matters though. I'm guessing Vought.

[SueB]

I think the Russians accomplished their job: created an anti-superhero weapon.   I don’t think they were able to brainwash him aka Winter Soldier.   Was that the plan?  We’re they just going to clone him?   I think they are NOT working with Vought because this is a threat to their Product.  And they wouldn’t give ‘Trade Secrets’ to Russia.  
 

The name ‘Ben’ IS interesting.  If it’s a Dark Angel nod, it could mean Soldier Boy is either mentally unstable or a mass murderer or both. Otherwise the name would have been Alec. But SB seems traumatized but clear thinking.  And he’s not dumb.  He snuck his way out of Russia.  He appears to have gained some control on his new weapon.  So… I don’t expect anything ‘good’ from him except Butcher using him to curb Homelander.    But SB knows he’s being used. So that’s not going to work out all that well. 
 

Homelander is SO going to tank Vought.  And The Deep’s wife is riding my last nerve.  
 

[gonzosgirrl]

29 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

But was it the Russians who instigated things or was it Vought, all on their own, or was it Vought with the help of the CIA. 

I just don't understand why Vought would turn over someone so powerful to the 'enemy' for any reason. If it was just to kill him, they could've done that. If the CIA or Vought were involved there has to be a good reason for the collusion.

[AntFTW]

13 hours ago, Evie said:

So Soldier Boy can take away a Supe's powers for good? Interesting.

I'm not sure if I missed it in a previous episode but just so I'm clear, that wasn't his original superpower, right? This is a power he has as a result of the Russian experiments on him, right?

[Chicago Redshirt]

16 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I just don't understand why Vought would turn over someone so powerful to the 'enemy' for any reason. If it was just to kill him, they could've done that. If the CIA or Vought were involved there has to be a good reason for the collusion.

Money, power and access would be a preliminary answer. Vought is an international company founded by a Nazi/Nazi sympathizer. I don't think corporate Vought in the 80s would have problems doing business with the Reds if there were $$ to be made and power to be gain. Maybe Vought had a hand in the Russian experiments or in getting data from them to make their own processes better. 

Experimenting on Soldier Boy in the U.S. would be a non-starter, but Vought would have some level of plausible deniability over anything the Reds did with/to him. 

[Racj82]

5 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I'm selling my Vought shares.

Seriously, the company is going to crumble under the current leadership. I can't wait to see it. I know, short term, they can get plenty of people to go along with their antics. But, their going to majorly fuck up at some point.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Racj82

[gonzosgirrl]

19 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Money, power and access would be a preliminary answer. Vought is an international company founded by a Nazi/Nazi sympathizer. I don't think corporate Vought in the 80s would have problems doing business with the Reds if there were $$ to be made and power to be gain. Maybe Vought had a hand in the Russian experiments or in getting data from them to make their own processes better. 

Experimenting on Soldier Boy in the U.S. would be a non-starter, but Vought would have some level of plausible deniability over anything the Reds did with/to him. 

True, but I still don't get handing over arguably your most powerful weapon to the enemy. Vought, maybe, for the reasons you mentioned, but I can't see the CIA/the Colonel being involved.

[Morrigan2575]

I predicted this season would be a team up I just got it ALL wrong. I thought Soldier Boy would be so bad that Butcher would tram up with Homelander to stop Soldier Boy. Got that one wrong.

I was actually hoping Maeve and Butcher would hook up earlier this season when she brought him Temp V. I was shocked that it actually happened.

I've been worried about Maeve and Frenchie since The Boys S4 tweet announcment dropped and they weren't pictured. I'm hoping I have that totally wrong.

I am on the fence about Soldier Boy...he seems normal and I feel for his decades of suffering.  At the same time what did he do that made everyone on the team, except Gun Powder hate him?

They drew some interesting parallels between Homelander/Maeve and Soldier Boy/Crimson Countess. As much as I love Antony Starr I don't know how much more they can do with him as a villain after this season. 

Now, as an SPN fan I couldn't help but love the 2 Easter Eggs (Trunk Cam and, Soldier Boy's double take at Robert Singer poster).  Did I miss any? I admit I FF through the A-Train and Deep parts, I just don't care. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Morrigan2575

[MAK]

9 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

but I can't see the CIA/the Colonel being involved.

I don't think CIA, or any other agency would have been involved. They didn't want supes in the military or the field, according to Mallory.

But for all the reasons mentioned, Vought wouldn't care about ruining a CIA operation to further their own profits and long range plans.They just need to convince one high up to allow them to be present. 

[gonzosgirrl]

11 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Now, as an SPN fan I couldn't help but love the 2 Easter Eggs (Trunk Cam and, Soldier Boy's double take at Robert Singer poster).  Did I miss any? I admit I FF through the A-Train and Deep parts, I just don't care. 

The date on the film that MM was watching about Soldier Boy at the start was January 24th  (Dean, Jess, and Eric Kripke's wife's birthday).

[Morrigan2575]

3 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I wouldn't bet on that. I'm sure it's temporary. Which is what they need. 

Yeah. That's my thought as well, probably related to the radiation 

41 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I'm not sure if I missed it in a previous episode but just so I'm clear, that wasn't his original superpower, right? This is a power he has as a result of the Russian experiments on him, right?

That's the implication from the videos MM was watching and Butcher's comment about his nifty new powers 

1 hour ago, SueB said:

The name ‘Ben’ IS interesting.  If it’s a Dark Angel nod, it could mean Soldier Boy is either mentally unstable or a mass murderer or both. Otherwise the name would have been Alec. But SB seems traumatized but clear thinking.  And he’s

I just went with a Nod to Uncle Ben, especially after Butcher delivered the With Great Power Line. Of course Ben could have been his name in the comics and there's no connection to Marvel or Dark Angel.

Oh and a new thought.  Is Maeve working with Edger to take down Homelander? Someone us supplying her with Temp V...unless it's Bobby Singer?

[AntFTW]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

That's the implication from the videos MM was watching and Butcher's comment about his nifty new powers 

He sure did say that. Completely forgot about that.

[Aithne]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

They drew some interesting parallels between Homelander/Maeve and Soldier Boy/Crimson Countess. As much as I love Antony Starr I don't know how much more they can do with him as a villain after this season.

I was saying the same thing last night. AS is phenomenal, and Homelander has me on edge constantly, so he's a great villain. But like... where does this go? Are we gonna have a fourth season of HL getting ~even crazier~? At some point you gotta pull the trigger, and I just feel like we are coming to a point where it's gonna get old if something doesn't change.