S42.E12: Caterpillar to a Butterfly

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ljenkins782 said:

LOL, when you put it like that, yeah, I guess it probably did seem like anything can happen anytime. But I still think it was silly not to use it if only for all she went through to get it and activate its power as an idol. And she didn't need it for herself so she could have leveraged it in so many ways, it was a shame to see it fizzle. And I liked Omar so I was hoping he could be saved, but the editing in the episode was anvilicious as they come, way too many shots of Omar throwing his head back and laughing with seeming confidence. It couldn't have been clearer that he was toast.

Oh yeah, I agree that it was too bad she didn't use it somehow, preferably on Omar since I liked him, too. They were the two I was most rooting for, so I wish they were both going into the finale. Maryanne's fine overall, my quibbles with her "hurt feelings" this episode aside. But I can't get excited about a win by Mike or Jonathan. Uh, or Romeo.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, violet and green said:

 

Funny you say that, as Mike is the most likeable player, going by exit interviews.

My take may be skewed by the edited presentation of what happened or a number of other things.

Mike is seemingly a very likeable person in general. But basically it also seems to me that Mike has two modes in the game: you're my favorite ever or you're dead to me. No in-between, no subtlety. And that makes him less likeable in the game or should make him less likeable to the other players, if that makes sense.

Like, what is the state of his relationships with the jury members and other players?

He's been buddy-buddy with Jonathan because he fancies the two of them as manly manly men who need to bond to avoid being a target. Jonathan is about the only one I see as a likely Mike vote.

Chanelle, Rocksroy and Hai may like Mike as a person but they probably will never vote for him to get $1 million because he backstabbed or frontstabbed them. 

Omar may like Mike as a person but I don't see him voting for him because I tend to doubt Omar has any respect for Mike as a game-player, and like I said, will likely embarrass Mike that he fell for Omar's lie and was effectively Omar's puppet. 

I don't know if Mike has really spent much time socializing or strategizing with anyone beyond Jonathan, Hai, Omar, and now Maryanne. He was taken on the reward by Lindsay and expressed gratitude to her for that. But I don't think we've seen him actually hang out and be friendly with her or include her in their planning.

[Guest]

never mind

Edited May 19, 2022 by tracyscott76

[Valerie]

Damn. Omar was one of my winner picks.

Maryanne indeed became a butterfly with that move. I'm hoping she wins (another Canadian winner!) but I have a feeling she's going to either lose to fire or just not be chosen because of her jury management advantages.

I really don't want Jonathan to win. I would be okay with a Mike win but it always bothers me when people tout they are playing a noble game but then pull the same stunts as everyone else. Dude, you're on Survivor. You can't play an honourable game without burning a few toes. See: Rupert, Coach.

[HurricaneVal]

1 hour ago, simplyme said:

I'm just glad Omar invited Romeo for cake. 

Oh yes.  Omar played that reward challenge distribution very, very, well.  Not only did he pick the option that let him bring the most people along for the fuel, but he adroitly directed that Jonathon and Lindsey, who were left behind, could eat everybody's rice portion while they were eating cake and cookies.  So even though he didn't pick them, he appeared to "give" them food.  And he did it so good-naturedly that no one questioned him about who died and made him king such that he could direct camp resources that way.  Everybody was just ::nod::nod:: smiling in agreement.

That really showed what a strategic genius Omar was. It seemed to come naturally to him, he didn't appear to pause for a moment to scheme, he just immediately made his choices and reasons known all with that boyish smiling grin on his face like he was excited to be going to a party. 

I like Omar.  I appreciated his strategies and machinations.  I think he delightedly indulged in a little too much villainous mustache twirling and monologueing, but again that boyish smiling grin kept breaking through.  He had the time of his life playing on Survivor, and he even went out on a total blindside, brilliantly orchestrated by another deep strategic player, so he's got nothing to be ashamed of.  If Lindsey could have seen past her jealousy and fantasy of Jonathon's "usurpation" of her rightful title of Strongest Avenger, er, Survivor, and dropped the idol on Omar, we would be having a very different discussion here today.

[DEL901]

4 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

I like Omar.  I appreciated his strategies and machinations.  I think he delightedly indulged in a little too much villainous mustache twirling and monologueing, but again that boyish smiling grin kept breaking through.  He had the time of his life playing on Survivor, and he even went out on a total blindside, brilliantly orchestrated by another deep strategic player, so he's got nothing to be ashamed of.  If Lindsey could have seen past her jealousy and fantasy of Jonathon's "usurpation" of her rightful title of Strongest Avenger, er, Survivor, and dropped the idol on Omar, we would be having a very different discussion here today.

I agree. Lindsey is playing a short game focused far too much on Jonathan.  She was delighted and smug when she thought he bought her lie.   Omar, on the other hand, May occasionally overplayed but he never played out of spite.  He got a little too pleased with himself in his confessionals, but he was always nice to everyone. 

[Seelouis]

11 hours ago, Primetimer said:

Just posted: Maryanne finally earned the winner's edit she's been receiving all season. Will she ride it all the way to that million dollar check? Primetimer's Joe Reid weighs in:
https://www.primetimer.com/features/one-last-survivor-blindside-crowns-a-new-odds-on-favorite

He seems to be under the erroneous impression that Mike and Jonathan also voted for Omar. 

[AntFTW]

3 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Really my only question is that was the split by design - did they agree to split the vote and let Mary Anne and Romeo vote for Omar? Or was that an independent decision on Mike and Jonathan’s part?

Yes and no... kinda... both...

It was moreso an "agree to disagree" kinda thing. When Mike, Maryanne and Jonathan were together discussing plans, it was pretty clear that neither side was budging. Mike and Jonathan wasn't on board with Maryanne's plan and was not agreeing to it. They wanted to vote for Romeo, and there was really no changing their minds. Therefore, Maryanne told them, frustratingly, to go ahead with their plan to vote for Romeo. Maryanne wanted to continue with her plan regardless so she went for it.

Edited May 19, 2022 by AntFTW

[Guest]

1 hour ago, HurricaneVal said:

If Lindsey could have seen past her jealousy and fantasy of Jonathon's "usurpation" of her rightful title of Strongest Avenger, er, Survivor, and dropped the idol on Omar, we would be having a very different discussion here today.

While Lindsay has admitted that she's been competitive with Jonathan, I don't think her wanting him out has to do with jealousy or some feeling that she is owed the "rightful title" of Strongest Survivor. She said that she wants him out because he's the biggest threat to keeping her from winning immunities, which is the surest way to stay in the game. The challenge results bear this out, since the last four episodes have seen Jonathan and Lindsay trading immunity wins, and when one wins, the other usually comes in second. Plus, she's aggravated with the guy for being kind of a dick to her. So if she wants to be a little happy when she thinks he's going, I can't blame her.

[tvfanatic13]

And just like that, Maryanne is my top pick for the win. 

[whiporee]

There is a story going around that Omar had an idol nullifier. I don't know how true it is, but apparently he said so on an interview and showed it to the interviewer. So if that is true, then Lindsey could have had a different plan the the one shown. Like she knew she couldn't give it to anyone else, so she had to play nice with him.

I don't know if it's true but if it is it sucks that was shut out of the show. 

[Steph Sometimes]

It's ok that I still like Lindsay, right?

[Taeolas]

Interview with Omar that also explains the Idol Nullifier advantage that was completely cut out of the game. 

It also explains a bit more some of the reasoning behind the tactics we saw and didn't see. Apparently Lindsey's idol is non-transferrable so she couldn't just give it to Omar, but she could still have played it for him. (a key distinction with the "Knowledge is Power" advantage in play, not that it mattered here)

[PaperTree]

15 hours ago, Msample said:

Romeo is a lock for the final three….as a goat.

I don't think you mean Greatest Of All Time.  😎LOL

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Steph Sometimes said:

It's ok that I still like Lindsay, right?

Yes! 😀 

No one should have to be apologetic about who they like.

[whiporee]

24 minutes ago, Taeolas said:

Interview with Omar that also explains the Idol Nullifier advantage that was completely cut out of the game. 

It also explains a bit more some of the reasoning behind the tactics we saw and didn't see. Apparently Lindsey's idol is non-transferrable so she couldn't just give it to Omar, but she could still have played it for him. (a key distinction with the "Knowledge is Power" advantage in play, not that it mattered here)

That truly sucks. Really takes away from the enjoyment of watching if it's all being tailor made to that level. I do think Jeffy&Co. have some 'splaining to do about that decision. 

[meep.meep]

4 hours ago, KeithJ said:

For Maryanne's sake, I hope she can make fire.  I don't see any way of her winning the final four challenge and the remaining three would be stupid to take her to the final with them.

I think the editors have very carefully showed us everyone making fire.  There's no sitting back and letting one person do it.  This episode Omar did.

I can't help thinking that Mike is Tony 2.0 - maybe it's just the accent.

[HurricaneVal]

17 minutes ago, Steph Sometimes said:

It's ok that I still like Lindsay, right?

Heck, I still like Lindsay, but I think she made a really stupid move, and is focused on the wrong thing.

 

16 minutes ago, Taeolas said:

Apparently Lindsey's idol is non-transferrable so she couldn't just give it to Omar, but she could still have played it for him.

Or Lindsay could have given him the immunity necklace and used the idol on herself.  I get it that she didn't want to expose their alliance, but at this stage of the game when you're coming straight to the final four that sort of intel becomes kind of meaningless.  It was poor jury management on her part, the optics of appearing to hoard an immunity idol when you already had immunity, for an idol that was expiring at that tribal council.  Maybe everyone knew it was non-transferrable, so that wasn't as bad a move as I think? 

 

 

I am REALLY ANNOYED that there was this other advantage out there, this "Idol Nullifier" that we were never shown, with the excuse that it didn't get used, so they chose not to show it.  Lindsay's original shared advantage that stepped up into an idol was never used either, but it soaked up plenty of screentime.  Omar's interview clearly showed that his nullifier played into several of his strategic decisions, so I would argue that it was used, but only as a element informing a building scheme.

I think this tells us--AND IT SHOULD TELL THEM--that there are too many advantages in the game now, and they need to pull back. 

[iMonrey]

Omar is a better sport than I could ever be. If I suffered through 23 grueling days of physical strain and starvation only to be voted out at final 6 I'd be Malcolm-level pissed off. 

[fishcakes]

32 minutes ago, Taeolas said:

Interview with Omar that also explains the Idol Nullifier advantage that was completely cut out of the game. 

Wow, there was a ton of strategizing that we didn't see. That makes the Jonathan/Omar and Omar/Mike rifts a lot more understandable. It sheds light on how Omar basically forced Hai and Mike to flip on Lydia. This has been such a good season, but now I feel like there was an even better version of it that we could have been shown.

[whiporee]

Let's assume two things -- the nullifier was in effect and the Idol was non-transferable.

The only way she could save Omar was to give hm the necklace. But if she does that, he could use the nullifier on her idol and vote her out, and that would have been the kind of move that he'd make. She probably figured that, which is why she sat on the idol. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, whiporee said:

Let's assume two things -- the nullifier was in effect and the Idol was non-transferable.

The only way she could save Omar was to give hm the necklace. But if she does that, he could use the nullifier on her idol and vote her out, and that would have been the kind of move that he'd make. She probably figured that, which is why she sat on the idol. 

 

4 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Wow, there was a ton of strategizing that we didn't see. That makes the Jonathan/Omar and Omar/Mike rifts a lot more understandable. It sheds light on how Omar basically forced Hai and Mike to flip on Lydia. This has been such a good season, but now I feel like there was an even better version of it that we could have been shown.

Leaving the idol nullifier out of the show kind of did a disservice to everybody from Omar on down, in terms of showing their motivations and strategies.

[bankerchick]

28 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

I am REALLY ANNOYED that there was this other advantage out there, this "Idol Nullifier" that we were never shown, with the excuse that it didn't get used, so they chose not to show it.  Lindsay's original shared advantage that stepped up into an idol was never used either, but it soaked up plenty of screentime.  Omar's interview clearly showed that his nullifier played into several of his strategic decisions, so I would argue that it was used, but only as a element informing a building scheme.

Another reason to call bullshit if they don't nullify Mike's idol for not saying the phrase at the first immunity challenge like the clue said he must.  Rules are rules and words are words but neither mean anything if it doesn't fit the chosen narrative.

[AntFTW]

4 hours ago, Brendan Birch said:

They did.  Right after Marya was voted out, Maryanne showed her extra vote to everyone at Taku's camp in purely enthusiastic fashion.  I really thought that she'd keep it a secret, but she wasted no time in telling Jonathan, Lindsay, and Omar about it, thinking that they could all use it together.

I love that every time Maryanne reveals she has an advantage, it's becomes a party.

It's like she's withholding the biggest juiciest secrets and she's just dying to get it out. Its like "so we got six votes total, right? Nope, I have an extra vote, WE GOT SEVEEENNNNNN!!!"

Edited May 20, 2022 by AntFTW

[iMonrey]

Quote

Wow, there was a ton of strategizing that we didn't see. That makes the Jonathan/Omar and Omar/Mike rifts a lot more understandable. It sheds light on how Omar basically forced Hai and Mike to flip on Lydia. This has been such a good season, but now I feel like there was an even better version of it that we could have been shown.

Gotta leave time for all them challenges! Gotta climb over that obstacle course, gotta untie them ropes, gotta crawl under that netting, gotta spin around and get dizzy, gotta dig up them puzzle pieces, gotta put together them puzzles, gotta toss those bean bags! God forbid we miss a moment of that thrilling entertainment that never, ever gets old.

[AntFTW]

2 hours ago, Steph Sometimes said:

It's ok that I still like Lindsay, right?

Why not? I like her. I hope she wins.

1 hour ago, whiporee said:

Let's assume two things -- the nullifier was in effect and the Idol was non-transferable.

The only way she could save Omar was to give hm the necklace. But if she does that, he could use the nullifier on her idol and vote her out, and that would have been the kind of move that he'd make. She probably figured that, which is why she sat on the idol. 

So why go through the charade in her interview that she doesn't want to play her idol? Editing magic? May be an earlier interview?

[ByaNose]

Just now, iMonrey said:

Gotta leave time for all them challenges! Gotta climb over that obstacle course, gotta untie them ropes, gotta crawl under that netting, gotta spin around and get dizzy, gotta dig up them puzzle pieces, gotta put together them puzzles, gotta toss those bean bags! God forbid we miss a moment of that thrilling entertainment that never, ever gets old.

The editors really hate to show true alliances a lot of the time. It’s funny because Rob Cesternino was confused weeks ago by Drea and her alliances. Here she’d been working with both Omar and Hai but the 3 of them were never shown together at the same time. It wasn’t until each one got voted out did we get the story. Even Rob said that was “the story”. The rise and fall in back to back to back vote offs of the 3 of them. Another thing I learned from his exit interview with Dalton Ross was that he didn’t necessarily have a fun time at Ponderosa and didn’t get a warm reception I’m assuming by Hai & Drea. So everything wasn’t entirely Hunky Dory with everyone. Of course, this is the season we don’t get Ponderosa videos which annoys me to end but I digress. 

[LadyChatts]

2 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Wow, there was a ton of strategizing that we didn't see. That makes the Jonathan/Omar and Omar/Mike rifts a lot more understandable. It sheds light on how Omar basically forced Hai and Mike to flip on Lydia. This has been such a good season, but now I feel like there was an even better version of it that we could have been shown.

Yeah, he said that Taku had a pact to stay tight until the final 6, which Jonathan alluded to last night.  But they all did a great job infiltrating other contestants and getting them to flip on their former tribe mates.  It explains why Jonathan didn’t go before this.  I can see why some contestants, like Hai and Drea, were surprised by how well Omar was playing the game after watching it back.  I wish we had actual extra footage-not extra clips, but actual hours-long bonus content where they showed more of what was going on.  Paramount+ subscribers like me deserve some kind of perk lol 

[nlkm9]

I actually like Lindsay a lot, she is an awesome competitor. I actually also like Jonathon, and Maryann is showing a scheming mind when her initial edit was a very annoying hyper energy.

I adore Omar and he would be someone I would enjoy seeing on another season.

[violet and green]

So Lindsay couldn't have given her amulet idol to Omar, but she still could have played it for him? Is that what people are saying, or does non-transferable also mean she couldn't have played it for him?

Am a bit stunned they didn't show Omar having an Idol Nullifier, which is important information and ramps up the tension usually...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

So why go through the charade in her interview that she doesn't want to play her idol? Editing magic? May be an earlier interview?

I'd say it's editing magic. When they're getting interviewed, the interviewers run them through all scenarios so they'll have plenty of footage to work with depending on how things shake out.

So I'd imagine they asked Lindsay about all the pros and cons of using her idol, and she obligingly talked about the idol nullifier, the clause in her advantage that said she couldn't gift her amulet, the fear of a re-hidden idol, etc. And then, when the (stupid, annoying, frustrating) decision was made to obliterate the idol nullifier's existence, they had another option to show why she didn't want to use or gift the idol.

2 minutes ago, violet and green said:

So Lindsay couldn't have given her amulet idol to Omar, but she still could have played it for him? Is that what people are saying, or does non-transferable also mean she couldn't have played it for him?

Apparently she could have played her amulet idol for him at Tribal Council, but she couldn't give it to him beforehand to use on his own - that's the non-transferable part. She could have instead given him her immunity challenge necklace at TC and used her amulet idol herself, but speculation is that she feared that he would then use his idol nullifier on her amulet idol, and she would be vulnerable to being voted out.

Clear as dirt!

Edited May 19, 2022 by tracyscott76

[violet and green]

6 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

Apparently she could have played her amulet idol for him at Tribal Council,

Shoulda, coulda, woulda...

I am still pleased by the sheer shock on her face!

[Taeolas]

From the article I linked, Lindsey's idol was non transferrable; BUT she could have, at TC, said "I have this immunity idol, and I'm going to play it on Omar's behalf." 

Or she could've given her necklace over and played it herself. 

The other factor, aside from the Nullifier risk, is the political risk. Omar and Lindsey apparently (according to Omar's interview) misread how on the sly their pairing was, and Omar and Lindsey apparently did not want to reveal how much of an alliance they had. So if Lindsey had played the idol on Omar's behalf (instead of Omar just saying "I have an idol"), it would have have revealed their alliance and risked their longer term plans. (Granted getting voted out also wrecks those long term plans for at least one of them) 

[violet and green]

12 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Mike is another likely candidate for only 0 votes at a FTC if he gets there. He tried to play as a man of his word, but he broke his word several times. He was behind the ouster of Hai and Drea, true. But I look forward to Omar flying off the top rope and telling the jury that it was he who manipulated Mike into wanting Hai gone on a complete lie. I think anyone who might be inclined to vote Mike will probably abandon him after that. 

People often bring up Mike turning on Hai (as Omar's puppet or not) as some great disloyalty, when it was Hai who orchestrated the ouster of Mike's number one ally, Jenny, back on Vati. Mike was not working with Hai pre-merge. After the merge, they were allies of convenience. I can see Mike ruefully admitting Omar played him into voting out Hai then, but I don't know why this would automatically negate Mike's entire game.

I do get Mike is disliked a lot here, but I would not rule him out of any votes in a final three, it really depends who else he is sitting with (Romeo and Jonathan, he may do well!), and if he gets to the final three and gets some final three money I will be pleased.

[millennium]

13 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Also according to Mike himself in this episode

I think Mike's a tool.

I figured Maryanne for "a goat to be herded" because heretofore she hadn't done anything to justify her existence.   That's all changed now because she singlehandedly took out one of the best players and biggest threats. 

Drea looked very pretty.

 

[SVNBob]

11 hours ago, Brendan Birch said:

They did.  Right after Marya was voted out, Maryanne showed her extra vote to everyone at Taku's camp in purely enthusiastic fashion.  I really thought that she'd keep it a secret, but she wasted no time in telling Jonathan, Lindsay, and Omar about it, thinking that they could all use it together.

And Omar and Lindsay had factored it into their plan; wanting Maryanne to split her votes between Mike and Jonathan, as insurance against an idol play.

I appreciate that Maryanne kept using her extra vote as the secret she could share in exchange for other information or to gain an ally, but has still kept her HII secret.  As far as we know, as far as they know Mike has the only idol in play.

Edited May 20, 2022 by SVNBob

[JH Lipton]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:05 PM, LadyChatts said:

he had this look on her face like she was an intelligent piece of cheese stuck between two stupid pieces of bread.  

She's not wrong.

16 hours ago, Valerie said:

See: Rupert, Coach.

I'd rather not see either of them.  Ever again.

16 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

[H]e adroitly directed that Jonathon and Lindsey, who were left behind, could eat everybody's rice portion while they were eating cake and cookies. 

And those were the two that would never strategize in the others' absence.

1 hour ago, SVNBob said:

Mike has the only idol in play.

Or does he??? Sorry

Edited May 20, 2022 by JH Lipton
Remove strikethroughs

[Chicago Redshirt]

10 hours ago, violet and green said:

People often bring up Mike turning on Hai (as Omar's puppet or not) as some great disloyalty, when it was Hai who orchestrated the ouster of Mike's number one ally, Jenny, back on Vati. Mike was not working with Hai pre-merge. After the merge, they were allies of convenience. I can see Mike ruefully admitting Omar played him into voting out Hai then, but I don't know why this would automatically negate Mike's entire game.

I do get Mike is disliked a lot here, but I would not rule him out of any votes in a final three, it really depends who else he is sitting with (Romeo and Jonathan, he may do well!), and if he gets to the final three and gets some final three money I will be pleased.

Backstabbing is part of the game, as is creating allies of convenience.

The trick is getting people you had a hand in voting out to agree that of two to three candidates, you are the most deserving of $1m.

With that in mind, I at least don't think that Mike's turning on Hai is a great disloyalty. But I think it probably is enough of a disloyalty to Hai that Hai would be unlikely to vote Mike outside some bizarre scenario where it was a Mike/Romeo final two.

Part of the FT pitch is striking the right note on the spectrum that includes "You bet I backstabbed you and I'd do it again," "I knew you were my biggest threat so I had to take you out," "I'm sorry I lied to you but it's all part of the game."etc.

I just don't see Mike as able to be persuasive in that sort of context.

And I think that having to concede that one of the biggest things on his resume (working to oust Hai) was done not because he came up with the idea but because he was manipulated into it reflects poorly on him and will likely cost him votes.

Who do you think is voting for Mike to win $1m? Like I said before, Jonathan is the only person I think likely to against a normal field of two others. 

[violet and green]

39 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Who do you think is voting for Mike to win $1m?

Well, I don't know who is possibly voting for Mike until I see if he makes it to the final three and who he is then up against! I just don't rule him out.

[nlkm9]

16 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Gotta leave time for all them challenges! Gotta climb over that obstacle course, gotta untie them ropes, gotta crawl under that netting, gotta spin around and get dizzy, gotta dig up them puzzle pieces, gotta put together them puzzles, gotta toss those bean bags! God forbid we miss a moment of that thrilling entertainment that never, ever gets old.

Lol marysnn spinning herself the other way is one of the funniset things i have seen

[paul4295]

This episode was definitely a big resume builder for Maryanne, but I think next week's could be even bigger.  Just as Omar became the target this week after a big move, I could see her becoming the target next week.  If she keeps her idol secret and lets herself be the seemingly unwitting target of a blindside, and then votes out whoever she wants, that makes her look even smarter.

[Chicago Redshirt]

17 minutes ago, paul4295 said:

This episode was definitely a big resume builder for Maryanne, but I think next week's could be even bigger.  Just as Omar became the target this week after a big move, I could see her becoming the target next week.  If she keeps her idol secret and lets herself be the seemingly unwitting target of a blindside, and then votes out whoever she wants, that makes her look even smarter.

From your lips to the Survivor gods' ears. And she would be hugely disincentivized to tell people about it now. I hope she lures people into a false sense of confidence that she has accepted her fate as a bootee and then BLAMMO!

[Heathrowe]

23 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

My take may be skewed by the edited presentation of what happened or a number of other things.

Mike is seemingly a very likeable person in general. But basically it also seems to me that Mike has two modes in the game: you're my favorite ever or you're dead to me. No in-between, no subtlety. And that makes him less likeable in the game or should make him less likeable to the other players, if that makes sense.

 

I am of the mind that Mike is like-able, and seems liked by most members of the jury. I think the only one he really "betrayed" so far is Hai - who I think might actually respect that play more than Mike continuing to be his creature.

Full-disclosure in that I do not know Mike, but I live in NJ, lived in Hoboken for a while (where he is a fireman) and he is such a TYPE. Chicago Redshirt - we wouldn't say you're my favorite ever here, we'd say "I LOVE YOU, MAN!" or you're dead to me. But you are right on - there's nothing in between. But because I am also from NJ and the exact same way...that makes him more likable to me. However, I do understand that the jury is not made up of fellow NJ dwellers and people from NJ offend the rest of the country all the time. 

Question up thread was who would vote for Mike, but I guess I just don't see a bunch of people who would vote against him. I actually think Mike, MaryAnn, and Lindsay have done a great job of playing the game without making enemies. Jonathan's starving crankiness has undermined his provider/challenge beast points. Agree with the point someone made upthread - if they try to blindside Maryann next week and she uses her idol and sticks around she DESERVES the win. ;0

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Heathrowe

[iMonrey]

Quote

he had this look on her face like she was an intelligent piece of cheese stuck between two stupid pieces of bread.  

I could see her exasperation with them. It was similar to what Lindsay went through with Jonathan when he insisted to her Drea wouldn't play an idol. Jonathan and Mike are just really stubborn. I'm not sure that's necessarily a weakness in their games, though. Jonathan, at least, has yet to be played, and I think that's why.

When Maryanne was selling her plan to Romeo she said "There are six people so there are six votes, right? Well that's a lie." Um, no, it's not a "lie," technically, it's just inaccurate because she has an extra vote. Nobody is going around lying saying there's only six votes. It just really struck me as odd. She's weird. Turns out, she's a pretty good player, but still weird.

[Chicago Redshirt]

39 minutes ago, Heathrowe said:

I am of the mind that Mike is like-able, and seems liked by most members of the jury. I think the only one he really "betrayed" so far is Hai - who I think might actually respect that play more than Mike continuing to be his creature.

Full-disclosure in that I do not know Mike, but I live in NJ, lived in Hoboken for a while (where he is a fireman) and he is such a TYPE. Chicago Redshirt - we wouldn't say you're my favorite ever here, we'd say "I LOVE YOU, MAN!" or you're dead to me. But you are right on - there's nothing in between. But because I am also from NJ and the exact same way...that makes him more likable to me. However, I do understand that the jury is not made up of fellow NJ dwellers and people from NJ offend the rest of the country all the time. 

Question up thread was who would vote for Mike, but I guess I just don't see a bunch of people who would vote against him. I actually think Mike, MaryAnn, and Lindsay have done a great job of playing the game without making enemies. Jonathan's starving crankiness has undermined his provider/challenge beast points. Agree with the point someone made upthread - if they try to blindside Maryann next week and she uses her idol and sticks around she DESERVES the win. ;0

Thanks for your thoughts. And yeah, the "I LOVE YOU, MAN!" is more what I should have said in the first place.

I freely admit my forecast could be completely wrong, and Drea could have been talking truth when said that if Mike gets to the end it'll be a landslide in his favor. (My read is that she was attempting to sabotage him on the way out). 

Only one week till we have more definitive info! Can't wait.

37 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

When Maryanne was selling her plan to Romeo she said "There are six people so there are six votes, right? Well that's a lie." Um, no, it's not a "lie," technically, it's just inaccurate because she has an extra vote. Nobody is going around lying saying there's only six votes. It just really struck me as odd. She's weird. Turns out, she's a pretty good player, but still weird.

It is a lie (if you define lie as "a statement known by the speaker to be untrue") when Maryanne says it, because she knows that there are in fact seven votes. Typically the definition of "lie" might also include that the speaker has the intent to deceive, which Maryanne didn't here. But it is close enough for most intents and purposes.

[blackwing]

Enjoyable episode.  I knew there was more to Maryanne than the goofiness and nonstop chattering.  She came across as a clear winner in this episode.  She is strategic, outlined her strategy well, tried to convince others, and when they didn't agree, she went ahead and did it anyways.  

I think the only one who would stand a chance against Maryanne in the final vote from a strategy perspective is Lindsey.  Lindsey has been making moves and is also strong in the competitions, so she is definitely a threat to Maryanne. 

Jonathan is a lot more strategic than people think, but they look at him and just see a big dumb bohunk so he's probably not going to get any credit for whatever strategic moves he may have made.  If he got votes it would be because of his challenge prowess and the fact that he solely carried the team at times.  Without him, there's a good chance that others on his team would have gotten eliminated earlier, particularly Maryanne.

Mike is a legend in his own mind.  Romeo is an utter non-entity.

I am all for a Maryanne win.  Barring her, Jonathan.

On 5/18/2022 at 8:45 PM, vb68 said:

Oh man, I chortled so hard when Mike said he was too likeable to go to the end that my dog looked up and stared at me.

I also laughed hard at Romeo voting "Omer".

Romeo also voted for "Hye".  I mean seriously, you are sitting on the island spending 24 hours a day with these people.  There's hours and hours that we don't see on air where they are probably literally sitting around doing nothing.  I'm always amazed at the people who don't know how to spell each other's names.  Do they not even talk to each other.   "I've never met anyone named Hai, how do you spell it?"  That's all it takes.

Mike truly is a legend in his own mind.  He thinks he is too likeable to take to the end?  I don't see anything likeable at all about him.  As I have said throughout the season, he is a bully.  He likes you if you agree with him, but if you don't agree with him, you are public enemy #1 and he will cut you.  He seems to think he is playing honourably and that is why he deserves to win.

I cannot really think of any moves that were solely orchestrated by Mike.  He's always been a vote to be controlled by someone else, whether it be Hai or Omar or others.  And in this case, he didn't even go along with Maryanne.  He is extremely stubborn and he always thinks that his way is the only way.

From his perspective, however, he is running the game.  Snort.  I wonder if he still thinks that after he saw how Maryanne successfully got Omar out.

On 5/18/2022 at 9:13 PM, AntFTW said:

I'm curious of why would Lindsey think her amulet-turned-idol would go back into the game to be found as if it were a traditional idol. She had an advantage that turned into an idol but it wasn't a hidden immunity idol so I would think that it wouldn't be "rehidden."

She should have used it because it was last day to play it and she had a vulnerable ally.

I get that Lindsey was confronted with all these new advantages that she had never seen in the game before, but let's assume that for some reason, the amulet would indeed be re-hidden.  So what?  If she and Omar were both safe because of her Immunity Necklace from the challenge and her Amulet, then Jonathan almost certainly would have gone home.  If the Amulet gets re-hidden, then the worst case would be if one of Maryanne, Mike or Romeo found it and the three of them teamed up.  At that point, I would think Omar goes home.  She is still in the final four and at that point it becomes about firemaking at worst, and then she is in the finals.

She and Omar were just too overconfident that everyone wanted Jonathan out.  They had no idea that Omar was even vulnerable, which is a true testament to Maryanne's great game.

On 5/18/2022 at 9:28 PM, LadyChatts said:

I just didn't understand why Mike was so afraid if Lindsey did play her idol for Omar.  Because he had an idol.  He acted like he was gone if Omar was safe.  At worst, Jonathan was gone and Mike would lose what he considered his shield.  But again, why is Mike such a threat?  How many times has his name been written down?  I can only think of Chanelle's one vote that ended up costing her with him.

I really can't blame Jonathan and Mike for voting for Romeo.  They thought that Omar might have an idol, and if so, then Jonathan would be gone.  Maryanne even acknowledged that.  So yeah, from Mike's perspective, he wasn't a target.  I guess he was loyal to Jonathan since Mike really doesn't have anyone else left who is really loyal to him.

I don't think it would have mattered though.  Jonathan would have gone home.  Assuming Omar did have an idol, then Jonathan and Romeo would have each received two votes.  In the revote, with votes cast by Lindsey, Omar, Mike and Maryanne, I would think Jonathan is almost certainly gone.  Maryanne would have voted out Jonathan because he is a bigger threat than Romeo.

On 5/18/2022 at 10:28 PM, KeithJ said:

At this point, I don’t see how Romeo doesn’t make the final three.  And, would he be the least deserving finalist ever?  He’s done awful in every challenge, been on the wrong side of just about every vote, has no strategy, and is just there.  The only thing he did was take extra rice when nobody was looking.  I can’t even figure out what he could tell the jury when they ask “why do you deserve to win?” Or “what moves did you make to get here?”

Romeo is such a joke.  I agree that he is probably one of the worst performers on the show to make it this far ever.  I can't wait to see what he tries to say about himself if he makes it to the final three.  I'm sure he will say he tended the fire and the rice.  Beyond that, ummm....

He hasn't made any moves of his own, he's been on the wrong side of the vote almost every time.  But I'm sure he will try and take credit for the ousters of Rocksroy and Omar, even though those weren't his moves.

If he makes it to the final three, his final three performance will join other do-nothings like Angelina Keeley, Julie Rosenberg, Hannah Shapiro and Gervase Peterson (in his Blood vs Water season).  It was particularly laughable hearing Angelina repeatedly talking about how "I gave up rice", Julie saying that "being nice" was her strategy, and Hannah trying to claim she was a mastermind.

On 5/19/2022 at 1:26 AM, rr2911 said:

Survivor is a game or supposed to be a game that contestants outwit, outplay and outlast each other to be the lone survivor.  Maryann has done none of those.  It took 23 days until she made any kind of move.  Maryann is dangerous, but not for her overall game play, because she doesn't have any.  She is dangerous because she got Omar out, who was one of the favorites to win.  The jury will see this quirky goofy young girl who didn't do anything all season, suddenly make a big move late in the game, even though Lindsey, Mike, and Jonathon have all played better games overall.  Romeo is the only one that has played a lesser game than Maryann.  So, the others should come together to get Maryann out of the game.  Who is going to want to sit next to her in the final 3?  No one would have a chance!  I hope they somehow make Maryann feel "comfortable" and blindside her.  That would be awesome!  I might have a beer if that happens, and I don't drink!  🤣  

I think Maryanne has played a quiet game.  I think the editors have definitely been showing us the loopy chatterbox Maryanne early on in the season.  But the tribal council where she clearly articulated her feelings about seeing Rocksroy in the jury, that was the first time I thought there is a lot more to Maryanne than we had been seeing.  She is smart and poised and convincing.  Now with this episode she has shown that she is a clear contender.

I disagree that she has done nothing.  Sandra Diaz-Twine played a very similar quiet game, sitting back with her "anybody but me" strategy, and she won twice.

As far as sitting back and not doing anything all season and then making a big move late... as long as the moves get made when they need to get made, I don't fault that.  See, Chris Underwood.  Literally out of the game from day 8 until five days or so before the end.

 

20 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

I am REALLY ANNOYED that there was this other advantage out there, this "Idol Nullifier" that we were never shown, with the excuse that it didn't get used, so they chose not to show it.  Lindsay's original shared advantage that stepped up into an idol was never used either, but it soaked up plenty of screentime.  Omar's interview clearly showed that his nullifier played into several of his strategic decisions, so I would argue that it was used, but only as a element informing a building scheme.

I think this tells us--AND IT SHOULD TELL THEM--that there are too many advantages in the game now, and they need to pull back. 

I agree, too many advantages.  The Amulet needed to be shown because it was talked about many times, and the fact that it gained more power as others were eliminated was likely the chief reason why Lindsey wanted Drea out.

Here, this Nullifier that was never used... I can see why they didn't want to include it on air.  It would have just been a big letdown to us if it never got used.  I can see people here saying "why bother to show us this if they didn't even use it".

Edited May 20, 2022 by blackwing

[paul4295]

Quote

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Romeo also voted for "Hye".  I mean seriously, you are sitting on the island spending 24 hours a day with these people.  There's hours and hours that we don't see on air where they are probably literally sitting around doing nothing.  I'm always amazed at the people who don't know how to spell each other's names.  Do they not even talk to each other.   "I've never met anyone named Hai, how do you spell it?"  That's all it takes.

 

I know misspellings are not a huge problem in the game, but they should really just have a sign up in the voting booth that lists all the names of the players.  They could even tailor it to each vote by removing players with immunity, so that they don't make a mistake and try to vote for someone who should not receive votes.

Edited May 20, 2022 by paul4295
Quotes are hard

[HurricaneVal]

I don't know about Romeo's case, but I know sometimes they write names down oddly, misspell them on purpose, or add a little drawing so they can prove back at camp when the inevitable recriminations rain down which vote was theirs.  "Cool your paranoia jets, Mike.  I didn't vote for you.  I voted for [person voted out].  My vote was the one with the little honeybee in the corner."

I can't vouch for Romeo, because I find it entirely plausible that he's a careless speller, disconnected from, and disinterested in, his fellow castaways and therefore didn't know and didn't care how to properly spell their names.  I'm also not sure he's smart enough to do it on purpose.  He seems to have given up entirely.  At one point he seemed to be trying to further himself, but right now he seems to be in the pit of despair.  He knows his only chance is to get dragged to FTC as a sacrificial goat and hope the other two contenders immolate themselves in their final speeches and Q&A session.

[violet and green]

3 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

He seems to have given up entirely.  At one point he seemed to be trying to further himself, but right now he seems to be in the pit of despair.  He knows his only chance is to get dragged to FTC as a sacrificial goat and hope the other two contenders immolate themselves in their final speeches and Q&A session.

Yes. It is an odd juxtaposition of his old game pre-merge and in his brief alliance with Hai, with the last several episodes. He seems to have lost all of his people skills along with the few pounds he had to lose, or we're not shown him negotiating or even chatting. I think just making it to the end is a goal, and getting to sit in the final three even if dragged there and get the third place money is not a bad pay day, so good on him for not self-evicting, I guess.

[violet and green]

I think they would all have a lot of explaining to do at the final tribal.

Lyndsay would need to explain her weird fixation on her season ally Jonathan blinding her into not playing an about to expire idol on her season ally Omar, leading to the wrong one going out on her watch.

Mike would need to explain his emotional gameplay.

Jonathan would need to explain why just lasting this long as an obvious challenge winner and all round beast was both a struggle and a victory.

Romeo would need to explain his collapse as a player while managing to stay in the game as the proposed target of almost every tribal at some point.

Maryanne would need to explain how one move after being on the bottom all season and often out of the loop makes her a winner.

No-one has a clear untarnished path to the win.

The only clear strategist in the pack was Omar, and he's gone, so no-one can spin a masterful yarn of how their brilliant strategy got them this far, in my view.