S05.E21: Zodiac

[thewhiteowl]

When a home invasion turns deadly, the SWAT team embarks on a race to track down priceless antique artifacts before any more lives are lost. Also, Leroy enlists Hondo’s help after an overdose hits close to home.

[Danielg342]

Guess there's no turning back on "Stris" now. She's about as much a lock to leave the team at this stage...which I guess means we've got a swerve coming too.

At least we got the "steamy scene that eventually leads to sex" scene out of the way.

I found myself far more interested in the side stories than the actual case. The orphaned daughter and her plight. Leroy going undercover. Hondo learning to trust his dear friend once again. Oh, and Carl Lumbly's wonderful turn as the cunning villain Saint.

I'm also convinced that Detective Rios is somehow in on Saint's operation. Otherwise, why kill the drug dealer?

All that was far more interesting than the case itself. It's really no different than the other kinds of "stop the criminals before X" kind of episodes, only in this case the team was literally trying to protect pieces of fine china (the Ming Dynasty ruled China during a real boom period of Chinese ceramics production). Kind of surprised the criminals killed the teen and his parents, and part of me wonders if they just let them live (or waited a few more minutes for the tutor to leave) if they would have gotten away with the crime (or just took longer to catch). Even still, they weren't exactly riveting criminals.

Ho hum. On to next week...the season finale.

[Snazzy Daisy]

Ugh! STRIS finally happened. She’s broken. She’s gonna bring him down. Good luck Jimbo, you will need it. So now can we move on from this boring pair? 🙄

COTW on missing statues was boring and wasn’t fully developed to make it interesting enough. They have been teasing us for a while on this untouchable “super villain” Saint but nothing much going on, so it’s draggy and boring too. Pick up the pace, you’re losing the momentum!

The best pairing and scene partners in this episode are - Victor Tan & Caitlin. And Lobo too! ❤️😊

[nittany cougar]

The hookup scene was hot. Thanks, producers, for having Street in a tank top!

I like how Luca's advice served as a catalyst for Chris and Street in the past two episodes.  Kenny Johnson was good as the confidant/ best buddy who really cares about his friends.  Chris got defensive, just like Luca said, but she eventually realized that he was right. She was messing up by letting Street go. It only took her thinking that Street was going to die to come to her senses.

Between Luca's speech to Chris and Deacon telling Chris that Street was going to miss her, I guess everyone knew about them anyway?

The case was depressing because they killed a whole family for those statues.  The little girl was shockingly okay for being the only survivor in the family. I think she should have been more traumatized.  I really liked Tan as the person that she latched onto.  I think this is foreshadowing Tan as a dad next season.

I've been a Carl Lumbly fan since "Alias" and hope that he is back on the show next season.

Edited May 17, 2022 by nittany cougar

[Danielg342]

I think it's a safe bet Carl Lumbly's "Saint" comes back next season. I don't think we're even close to resolving that storyline at all and I, too, want to see Lumbly again.

Plus, the show has quite a few storylines that remain unresolved with one episode to go and I'm not sure they'll resolve them all next week.

Heading into the finale we have, off the top of my head, the following unresolved issues:

• The Saint storyline
• Christina's eventual status on the show and on the team
• Rodrigo Sanchez's warning to Hondo (and Hicks) that the LAPD isn't done trying to get rid of Hondo for good
• The investigation by Annie and Deacon into Eduardo Ortiz's wrongful conviction

I'm quite certain we'll see what Christina Alonso's ultimate fate will be after next week. The other three feel much more up in the air. The Sanchez storyline may be dropped completely because the writers haven't revisited it at all since Sanchez left the show last fall, but I could see it revived next season in some capacity if the writers are having trouble finding inspiration for stories. The same fate may befall the Ortiz storyline, although that could be resolved- for better or for worse- with a simple line and/or a single scene.

Which leaves Saint. Since that's the storyline the show has dedicated to a slow burn and the show seems committed to the storyline, I have a feeling we're in for some kind of Saint-related cliffhanger at the end of next week.

[misstwpherecool]

Shippers, woke, cliche yuck

Where were the new girls ms medic and Chris's replacement?

And yes the drug squad detective killing the dealer not quite right.

One last thing. Isn' tthere a saying never act with animals because they'll steal the show.  Lobo!

Edited May 18, 2022 by misstwpherecool

[Sweet Tooth]

 

1. I knew the minute I saw that statue shattered on the ground, that it was fake.

2. That guy who shot the drug dealer is totally dirty, especially after what Saint said.

3. If this feud between Leroy and Hondo is over, I'll be eternally grateful.

4. So it wasn't the previous episode of Street almost dying, it was this one.

5. Street telling Chris that she MADE him feel like a fool, pissed me off. He's made some clumsy missteps, but saying that to her was the biggest one, as far as I'm concerned.

6. So glad the Stris WT/WT is finally over. I like that their fist kiss wasn't steamy, but more like two people who deeply love each other. That I felt was done right.

So, yeah, I figured they were trying to tell us that Chris had intimacy issues, which is why she was pushing Street away, and Street had been right all along.

Again, I think some of what Street did was great, but I also feel he stepped in it a number of times, like in this episode where he acted like a petulant child when Chris tried to help him and totally froze her out.

But if this helps Chris open up, then I'm fine. That scene where she's telling Street how she feels about him and why she'd been pushing him away, I thought was excellent and showed new growth for her. 

The Saint thing will definitely be coming to a head. I do like that at least Saint isn't doing the usual bad-guy shtick, where he seems to be everywhere all the time. He hasn't come after Hondo, etc. Hondo keeps taunting him. However, I also feel that eventually it will lead to Saint getting more aggressive. We'll see.

The whole family being slaughtered for some statues was insane. Tan and the little girl were adorable together.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Sweet Tooth

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, Sweet Tooth said:

I do like that at least Saint isn't doing the usual bad-guy shtick, where he seems to be everywhere all the time. He hasn't come after Hondo, etc. Hondo keeps taunting him. However, I also feel that eventually it will lead to Saint getting more aggressive. We'll see.

I too like Saint's smug, cool confidence. He doesn't rub in Hondo's face that he's outsmarting him and you can see, it's frustrating Hondo because Saint isn't cracking. Saint has the mind games down to a tee and it's great to watch.

The only problem I have with the storyline is that we, as an audience, are still waiting for some kind of "breakthrough" so we can get to the next part of the story and past this initial "Hondo suspects Saint but can't nail him" phase. I don't know how many more scenes we can sit through where it resolves, "Saint's getting away again because he knows how to hide his tracks". I hope the Rios thing has some legs because we need some kind of progression in this story.

Open question- I wonder if Hondo has done enough for Saint to possibly pursue a harassment complaint of some kind against him. Hondo taunting him repeatedly would certainly qualify as harassment, and thus it would be a more believable way for Saint to come after Hondo because he's actually got a reason to do it.

[Sweet Tooth]

11 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

The only problem I have with the storyline is that we, as an audience, are still waiting for some kind of "breakthrough" so we can get to the next part of the story and past this initial "Hondo suspects Saint but can't nail him" phase. I don't know how many more scenes we can sit through where it resolves, "Saint's getting away again because he knows how to hide his tracks". I hope the Rios thing has some legs because we need some kind of progression in this story.

Open question- I wonder if Hondo has done enough for Saint to possibly pursue a harassment complaint of some kind against him. Hondo taunting him repeatedly would certainly qualify as harassment, and thus it would be a more believable way for Saint to come after Hondo because he's actually got a reason to do it.

Yes, the story definitely needs to move forward. I'm thinking even if there is evidence, his value within the community will work against Hondo.

I don't know if he can prove Hondo has harassed him, since he's never taken Saint in to interrogate him. Like, if he kept arresting Saint for crimes he gets cleared of, it would show a clear case.

However, I do agree that Hondo needs to stop going there and threatening him, until he has something concrete, because otherwise he just looks like a Chihuahua nipping at Saint's heels. We've received the message. All Hondo has at this point is posturing, but we don't want it to wind up a running gag.

[Danielg342]

6 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

Yes, the story definitely needs to move forward. I'm thinking even if there is evidence, his value within the community will work against Hondo.

I don't know if he can prove Hondo has harassed him, since he's never taken Saint in to interrogate him. Like, if he kept arresting Saint for crimes he gets cleared of, it would show a clear case.

I think that's why a harassment complaint could happen- because Saint likely has a sympathetic ear within the police force and/or the government, and we still have the unresolved situation where Sanchez said he was "just the beginning". Even if the harassment claim is spurious, I could see it still being pursued because- in universe- Hondo is the enemy of the community and they would stop at nothing to take it down. Plus, there's an opportunity to tie the two stories together and I think this would be a great way to do it.

[nittany cougar]

15 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

 I don't know if he can prove Hondo has harassed him, since he's never taken Saint in to interrogate him. Like, if he kept arresting Saint for crimes he gets cleared of, it would show a clear case.

However, I do agree that Hondo needs to stop going there and threatening him, until he has something concrete, because otherwise he just looks like a Chihuahua nipping at Saint's heels. We've received the message. All Hondo has at this point is posturing, but we don't want it to wind up a running gag.

In the Hondo/Saint scene,  there were other people who witnessed the harrassment.  Saint brought up a famous Churchill quote.  Hondo's response was, "I forgot my book of quotes that criminal bastards live by."  It seems to me that if Hondo continues to approach Saint, apparently just for the sake of harrassing him, he would be up on disciplinary charges, with witnesses to support the claim.  He is really on thin ice.

 At the very least, he would be called in by Hicks and told to stop the unscheduled checks on Saint 

Edited May 20, 2022 by nittany cougar

[Snazzy Daisy]

Lina Esco on STRIS...

 

[Sweet Tooth]

14 hours ago, nittany cougar said:

In the Hondo/Saint scene,  there were other people who witnessed the harrassment.  Saint brought up a famous Churchill quote.  Hondo's response was, "I forgot my book of quotes that criminal bastards live by."  It seems to me that if Hondo continues to approach Saint, apparently just for the sake of harrassing him, he would be up on disciplinary charges, with witnesses to support the claim.  He is really on thin ice.

 At the very least, he would be called in by Hicks and told to stop the unscheduled checks on Saint 

Not only are they witnesses, but they're witnesses who think Saint's a pretty cool guy who helps the community. 

Agree that Hondo needs to rein it in, because it's not like the higher ups aren't already looking for a reason to fire him.

@Danielg342

Quote

I think that's why a harassment complaint could happen- because Saint likely has a sympathetic ear within the police force and/or the government, and we still have the unresolved situation where Sanchez said he was "just the beginning". Even if the harassment claim is spurious, I could see it still being pursued because- in universe- Hondo is the enemy of the community and they would stop at nothing to take it down. Plus, there's an opportunity to tie the two stories together and I think this would be a great way to do it.

Yep. I think this is exactly where they're going. Saint's been a cool customer and hasn't raised his voice once or said an unkind word to Hondo, while Hondo is shooting his mouth off.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Sweet Tooth

[Danielg342]

19 hours ago, nittany cougar said:

Saint brought up a famous Churchill quote

What quote was it? Google hasn't been helpful to me in this regard.

19 hours ago, nittany cougar said:

It seems to me that if Hondo continues to approach Saint, apparently just for the sake of harrassing him, he would be up on disciplinary charges, with witnesses to support the claim.  He is really on thin ice.

 At the very least, he would be called in by Hicks and told to stop the unscheduled checks on Saint 

5 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

Not only are they witnesses, but they're witnesses who think Saint's a pretty cool guy who helps the community. 

Agree that Hondo needs to rein it in, because it's not like the higher ups aren't already looking for a reason to fire him.

I think the only thing I would not want in this case is for Hondo's discipline to- again- happen off-camera. We did that at the end of last year, so doing it again would be a retread at this stage. I might welcome Hondo having to answer to a disciplinary board for his actions- perhaps there he can explain how he's linking Saint to all these safehouses in the first place, which the show hasn't explained (to my knowledge).

[b4pjoe]

5 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

What quote was it? Google hasn't been helpful to me in this regard.

From the shows transcript it appears to be:

Quote

Don't be afraid to expand your mind, Hondo. Might collect some unexpected friends along the way.

Read more at: https://tvshowtranscripts.ourboard.org/viewtopic.php?f=1068&t=53187

 

[Danielg342]

6 hours ago, b4pjoe said:

From the shows transcript it appears to be:

 

Thanks for the transcript. I found the quote:

""We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give."

Which, as I understand, is misattributed to Winston Churchill, but that's semantics.

[b4pjoe]

I wasn't sure what the Churchill quote was. From the transcript I just thought it was here (without the word Hondo in the quote):

Edited May 21, 2022 by b4pjoe

[Danielg342]

@b4pjoe, I understand where you thought it was. That exchange was said after Saint had said the quote and had asked Hondo, "do you know who said it?" Hondo tried to steer the conversation away from that point but Saint didn't fall for it and told him it was Churchill before closing with the lines you stated.

Further, there is a quote in quotation marks within that exchange. Looking up that quote on Google leads you to pages that refer to it as a Churchill quote, including the page that asserted it's a misattribution.

[nittany cougar]

Are we allowed to speculate about the finale, entitled "Farewell"?  There's not much info out.  I think that Mama Pina is going to pass away.  I think that it's possible that Cabrera or Fowler will get killed off.  The show has made it clear that Cabrera is impulsive and doesn't always go by the book, and this was a safety concern for the unit.

This is just a guess since I don't have access to spoilers.

[Raja]

How does LAPD SWAT roll up on a bank robbery by multiple murder suspects without a helicopter in support?

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, nittany cougar said:

Are we allowed to speculate about the finale, entitled "Farewell"?  There's not much info out.  I think that Mama Pina is going to pass away.  I think that it's possible that Cabrera or Fowler will get killed off.  The show has made it clear that Cabrera is impulsive and doesn't always go by the book, and this was a safety concern for the unit.

This is just a guess since I don't have access to spoilers.

I posted the episode topic for "Farewell" in case you want to discuss the finale further:

S05.E22: Farewell - S.W.A.T. - PRIMETIMER