S05.E21: White Trash, Holy Rollers and Punching People

[Yeah No]

On 5/13/2022 at 3:05 PM, ChitChat said:

On 5/13/2022 at 2:49 PM, Zanzibar said:

My dad owned a bakery in central Ohio for 25 years; he retired in 1986, and we sold bagels during the last 3-4 years of the business. If bagels were in central Ohio at that time, they were surely in Texas.

I remember back in the early 80's in Florida when my boss would walk around eating bagels & cream cheese with his mouth open.  I think that's what turned me off of bagels, plus, they taste like dried up bread to me.  I don't understand the attraction!  YMMV!

I'm not going to continue to go on about this, but Florida has always had a large Jewish population, and I'm sure Ohio also had more of a Jewish presence during that time than East Texas, which would make finding fresh bagels in those places more common.  My question was how readily available they would be in a town in East Texas at the time.  In a big city in that area, maybe it would have been more common, but in a small-ish town or city probably a lot less common until the 2000s.  I'm willing to consider that near a college or in a college town they might have been more available, though.

[Beden]

22 hours ago, SusanM said:

In the episode where George learns he may lose his job he goes to the college and asks the president if that job is still a possibility.  She tells him the school no longer has a football team.  I guess it's possible they could start one up again but the most likely scenario they seem to be building up to is George taking over as manager of Dale's store.

Good point, I'd forgotten

[SmallTownMom]

Sarah 103 (sorry, don't know how to attach this to a previous conversation), there is nothing wrong with a 23 year old dating a 21 year old.  They both lied, but Mandy knew she was really 29, and  I still can't believe anybody would think Georgie is 21.  I think they were both in it for the sex.  

My husband and I started dating when I was 26 and he was 21.  However, he had been working full time for almost 4 years, and was very responsible.  He did live at home, but paid board, and was not living in his parents garage.  He worked a lot of overtime, and was saving for a house.  We got married after dating for almost 4 years, and have been married for 38 years.  So the age difference isn't a problem for me, but the lying about it is.

Georgie has none of that going for him.  Plus he is beyond annoying following her around at work telling her how her feet and breasts are gong to swell and that he'd be glad to rub anything that needed it.  I probably would have punched him.

My heart went out to Missy hearing her parents argue about her punching that boy.  Her expressions as she listened and then hugged her mom were amazing.  She makes the show for me.  It will be interesting to see where this storyline goes.  

[Yeah No]

56 minutes ago, SmallTownMom said:

Sarah 103 (sorry, don't know how to attach this to a previous conversation), there is nothing wrong with a 23 year old dating a 21 year old.  They both lied, but Mandy knew she was really 29, and  I still can't believe anybody would think Georgie is 21.  I think they were both in it for the sex. 

Actually, Mandy told him she was 25, not 23, but at least she leveled with him about her true age before they had sex.  That would have been his opportunity to come clean about his age but of course all he could think about was the sex and didn't want to turn her off.  She took the risk that he would not be comfortable with dating a 29 year old but he wouldn't take the risk that she wouldn't be comfortable dating a 17 year old.

I can't believe she wouldn't have suspected he was younger than 21 either.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I can't believe she wouldn't have suspected he was younger than 21 either.

The actor is 21, so I'm okay with that.
But then I had a 19-year-old boyfriend in high school who could buy beer without getting carded before they lowered the drinking age to 18. Not being carded means he looked over 21.
Georgie does not look over 21. 
I think the casting for the show was perfect, but I bet if they'd planned this plot arc, they might've cast a teen for Georgie who looked older than he is.

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The actor is 21, so I'm okay with that.
But then I had a 19-year-old boyfriend in high school who could buy beer without getting carded before they lowered the drinking age to 18. Not being carded means he looked over 21.
Georgie does not look over 21. 
I think the casting for the show was perfect, but I bet if they'd planned this plot arc, they might've cast a teen for Georgie who looked older than he is.

If she knew she lied that would give her reason to suspect he might have lied too, but she didn't want to consider that under the circumstances, not that he would have been honest anyway.  Maybe it's just the way younger people strike me today but none of the guys I knew when I graduated college felt as young as Georgie looks and acts.  Maybe it's just a generational thing, or maybe it's just good acting!

[shapeshifter]

27 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

… none of the guys I knew when I graduated college felt as young as Georgie looks and acts.  Maybe it's just a generational thing, or maybe it's just good acting!

Good point. The script for Georgie makes him sound younger too. “Georgie” (instead of “George”) makes him sound like a baby too. So maybe they did deliberately cast a youthful appearing young adult even knowing this pregnancy plot was a possibility. 
But why? I guess to make fun of Texas attitudes towards teen sex?

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Good point. The script for Georgie makes him sound younger too. “Georgie” (instead of “George”) makes him sound like a baby too. So maybe they did deliberately cast a youthful appearing young adult even knowing this pregnancy plot was a possibility. 
But why? I guess to make fun of Texas attitudes towards teen sex?

Yeah, I thought that too, that they deliberately cast him because he was believable younger (and has been all the way through the series so far).  And yes they probably wanted to make fun of Texas attitudes at the time, but as others have suggested, it works as something to cause a further wedge between George and Mary.

Calling him "Georgie" may have started to distinguish him from his father since he has the same name, but it does make him seem younger too.

[proserpina65]

On 5/13/2022 at 4:39 PM, Prairie Rose said:

Pastor Jeff got burned big time by Selena. You'd think he'd be more sympathetic to Georgie. Has he even offered to talk with Georgie and/or Mandy?

Pastor Jeff has often come across as quite selfish.  When he has flaws and problems, it's fine; when things happen with other people, not so much.  And in the Hell House episode, it was quite clear that his priority was making money for the church, not actually helping people who thought they were sinners.  I'm not a particular fan of Mary, but at least her focus in that episode was about helping people.

 

Seems like Peg has been part of the church for a very long time, so her "sins" are kinda grandfathered in.  And it's possible that this particular church may not always have been this strict.

On 5/13/2022 at 6:42 PM, Welshman in Ca said:

 

There is also a reason that the saying "there's no hate like christian love" exists and it's not because of Hollywood. That's not to say that some Christians are not good people as there are good & bad people in every walk of life no matter how much some self righteous people deny it.

Heck, I'd say most of the Christians I know are good people and would not behave like those in Mary's church, but there is definitely a certain subset who would.  It's those kind of Christians who give being Christian a bad name.

On 5/13/2022 at 10:44 PM, Kiddvideo said:

Sorry, but Pastor Rob would’ve been trained (as all counselors) to recognize transference and not put himself or Mary in that position. Mary is hardly a virgin and needs to be honest with herself that her feelings aren’t pure (which I think she realizes but right now she has the moral authority that nothing happened), but it’s Pastor Rob’s professional responsibility to put an end to it.

Well even trained professionals are human and sometimes fail to behave as they should.

On 5/13/2022 at 11:07 PM, Sarah 103 said:

What's wrong with someone 23 dating someone 21, unless it's a graduate Teaching Assistant dating an undergraduate student or a supervisor dating a direct report? She made the mistake of believing what he told her. Maybe she thought he looked young for his age or was just a bit immature. 

I don't find anything wrong with a 29 year old dating a 21 year old, but I do get Mandy lying about her age at first.  Given her tv weather person background, I think her being a bit insecure about being nearly 30 completely understandable.

On 5/14/2022 at 8:12 AM, SusanM said:

I can see parents being disappointed with a daughter having a child out of wedlock, regardless of the age and especially when that daughter is working as a waitress when it seems she had a career going for her that has fallen apart. 

We haven't met her parents, so for all we know they could be extremely conservative and thus the out-of-wedlock pregnancy could be a huge deal for them.

On 5/14/2022 at 10:59 AM, SusanM said:

Maybe this is me once again not knowing how things work in a Baptist church but would this be something encouraged, or even tolerated in most cases?

Maybe it depends on the church?

On 5/15/2022 at 7:40 AM, Yeah No said:

I'm not going to continue to go on about this, but Florida has always had a large Jewish population, and I'm sure Ohio also had more of a Jewish presence during that time than East Texas, which would make finding fresh bagels in those places more common.  My question was how readily available they would be in a town in East Texas at the time.  In a big city in that area, maybe it would have been more common, but in a small-ish town or city probably a lot less common until the 2000s.  I'm willing to consider that near a college or in a college town they might have been more available, though.

For all we know, President Hagemeyer has her bagels shipped in from elsewhere.  She seems more cosmopolitan.  And we don't know that they're FRESH bagels.

Edited May 16, 2022 by proserpina65

[proserpina65]

5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

If she knew she lied that would give her reason to suspect he might have lied too

That doesn't make sense to me.  She had no particular reason to think Georgie was lying.

[SusanM]

1 minute ago, proserpina65 said:

We haven't met her parents, so for all we know they could be extremely conservative and thus the out-of-wedlock pregnancy could be a huge deal for them.

It was interesting that when Mandy was telling Connie (aka MeeMaw) about how her parents had reacted Connie said she had initially felt the same way when told about Mary's pregnancy.  That seemed out of character for her to me but she did say it was because of the "fat slob" Mary was having that baby with!  She did reassure Mandy that once the baby comes her parents will probably feel very differently.  Which IME is true - but I guess this does depend on just how conservative Mandy's parents turn out to be.

[hoodooznoodooz]

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

For all we know, President Hagemeyer has her bagels shipped in from elsewhere.  She seems more cosmopolitan.  And we don't know that they're FRESH bagels.

And we don’t know if they are authentic. Boiled then baked.

[Zanzibar]

On 5/15/2022 at 7:40 AM, Yeah No said:

I'm not going to continue to go on about this, but Florida has always had a large Jewish population, and I'm sure Ohio also had more of a Jewish presence during that time than East Texas, which would make finding fresh bagels in those places more common.  My question was how readily available they would be in a town in East Texas at the time.  In a big city in that area, maybe it would have been more common, but in a small-ish town or city probably a lot less common until the 2000s.  I'm willing to consider that near a college or in a college town they might have been more available, though.

We didn't make the bagels, they were supplied to us frozen by one of our major bakery suppliers and then we proofed and baked them. One of only a couple of items that we did not make from scratch.  And no, we did not have much of a Jewish presence in our town in central Ohio (I cannot recall knowing a single Jewish person there), nor did the bagels come from a Jewish supplier.  If bagels were available to bakeries in my area in 1985, it is not a stretch to imagine them in Texas in the early 1990s. Lenders Bagels were almost certainly in freezer cases across the country by that point, given that Lender's was purchased in 1984 by Kraft.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, Zanzibar said:

We didn't make the bagels, they were supplied to us frozen by one of our major bakery suppliers and then we proofed and baked them. One of only a couple of items that we did not make from scratch.  And no, we did not have much of a Jewish presence in our town in central Ohio (I cannot recall knowing a single Jewish person there), nor did the bagels come from a Jewish supplier.  If bagels were available to bakeries in my area in 1985, it is not a stretch to imagine them in Texas in the early 1990s. Lenders Bagels were almost certainly in freezer cases across the country by that point, given that Lender's was purchased in 1984 by Kraft.

I was willing to consider that they might be more easy to find in a college town or near a college.  I didn't say they were nonexistent, just hard to come by.  I know all about Lender's Bagels.  The way Hagemayer was talking sounded like she popped down to the local coffee or donut shop to buy one.  And they most certainly weren't on every street corner back then, far from it.  Also, Ohio is a very different culture from East Texas.  This show and BBT have beaten that into our heads about East Texas culture in just about every way.  Howard wore a cowboy hat and boots when he went there in a lame attempt not to stick out like a sore thumb as a lone Jew.  And even in a place like Indianapolis, even as late as 1997 when I went to visit friends there who wanted me to cook Italian American food for them I had a very hard time finding things as simple and commonly found today like Italian sausages, cheeses and certain canned tomato products in any of several supermarkets all around town.  I ended up having to bring them with me in my luggage on a subsequent trip.  Hard to believe now, but that's the way things were there even in the late '90s with a lot of ethnic foods.  I don't imagine it would have been any easier to find them in East Texas in 1991.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/13/2022 at 11:49 PM, Cotypubby said:

Missy is 29 right? Why would her parents say they want nothing to do with a 29-year old woman having a baby? She said she hadn’t even told them Georgie’s age yet. 

This storyline is so weird. It keeps being played like this is a teen pregnancy and she’s 16 or something.

Because Mandy is an unwed pregnant 29-year old.  There were people who cared about that 35 years ago, and shunned their children (lest they be shunned themselves.)  Some people would even care now.

On 5/16/2022 at 12:46 PM, proserpina65 said:

We haven't met her parents, so for all we know they could be extremely conservative and thus the out-of-wedlock pregnancy could be a huge deal for them.

Yes.

On 5/16/2022 at 12:46 PM, proserpina65 said:

For all we know, President Hagemeyer has her bagels shipped in from elsewhere.  She seems more cosmopolitan.  And we don't know that they're FRESH bagels.

She doesn't have the local accent, and likely either isn't from Texas, or went away for school.

On that note, Sheldon speaks too precisely to have any accent, but I'm not sure why Missy doesn't. It can't just be from watching tv, as Georgie does have a strong accent.)

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[possibilities]

Oh God. As far as I'm concerned, Lenders bagels are not bagels. They don't even vaguely resemble a bagel. I know they CALL themselves bagels, but they are not even close to a real bagel. A bready thing with a hole in it is not all it takes to make a bagel. I realize they call themselves bagels. And people who hav enever had a real bagel have no reason to know any different. But I could sit here and call myself a rutabaga and it wouldn't be true. Likewise, Lenders is to bagels as I am to a rutabaga. Not even close.

[SusanM]

8 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

On that note, Sheldon speaks too precisely to have any accent, but I'm not sure why Missy doesn't. It can't just be from watching tv, as Georgie does has a strong accent.)

Regional accents are something where actors can't win.  If they try and don't succeed it gets commented on mercilessly, if they don't try it gets commented on but usually they will get a pass.  Unlike the actress playing Missy the actor playing Georgie actually is from Texas so the accent is either his own speaking voice or he's able to bring it off on demand just as Jim Parsons (also from Texas) could in BBT.

[appositival]

8 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

On that note, Sheldon speaks too precisely to have any accent

I've always assumed that Sheldon has a Vulcan accent, like Spock.

[proserpina65]

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

The way Hagemayer was talking sounded like she popped down to the local coffee or donut shop to buy one. 

She didn't actually say anything the damned bagel.  It was Sheldon who mentioned it.  And while purists don't consider Lender's bagels to be real bagels, most of the rest of us aren't that fussed about it; they were certainly available in the local supermarkets in my extremely non-Jewish part of rural Maryland in the early 90s, so I find it completely believable they'd be available in Texas.

 

[Gummo]

I'm ready for The Missy Cooper Show. To hell with everybody else.

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, Gummo said:

I'm ready for The Missy Cooper Show. To hell with everybody else.

But she needs Georgie to let her know punching isn't a good thing. 

[MaryMitch]

EVERYONE has an accent. (pet peeve)

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

EVERYONE has an accent. (pet peeve)

Or two?
John Barrowman (Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who) has both a Scottish accent and an American. (wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barrowman#Early_life)

But, yeah, the kids on this show who don't come by Texas accents naturally could maybe have been coached a bit more? But they're kid actors, and are doing well with their acting. Maybe focusing on accents at a young age would screw up the acting?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

EVERYONE has an accent. (pet peeve)

True.  I meant a Texan accent, like almost everyone else in the show except for Missy and the college professors and president, who probably are not local.  I don't believe Paige did either (I don't remember if her parents did or not, which might influence her manner of speech.)

[ItCouldBeWorse]

14 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

On 5/13/2022 at 11:49 PM, Cotypubby said:

Missy is 29 right? Why would her parents say they want nothing to do with a 29-year old woman having a baby? She said she hadn’t even told them Georgie’s age yet. 

This storyline is so weird. It keeps being played like this is a teen pregnancy and she’s 16 or something.

Because Mandy is an unwed pregnant 29-year old.  There were people who cared about that 35 years ago, and shunned their children (lest they be shunned themselves.)  Some people would even care now.

I wanted to add that some parents would also think that accepting their unwed pregnant daughter would be a bad example for any other children they have, and that a rejection might act as a deterrent.

No doubt everything the family is going through will inform Missy's decisions about contraception when she is older. (No worries there about Sheldon.)

[SusanM]

14 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I don't believe Paige did either (I don't remember if her parents did or not, which might influence her manner of speech.)

I don't remember their accents (if any) but I do seem to recall from that first episode they were in that they weren't originally from Texas (I am thinking Louisinana but could be wrong).  Paige's mother convinced the father to move his dental practice so Paige would have more opportunities. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 minutes ago, SusanM said:

I don't remember their accents (if any) but I do seem to recall from that first episode they were in that they weren't originally from Texas (I am thinking Louisinana but could be wrong).  Paige's mother convinced the father to move his dental practice so Paige would have more opportunities. 

I think you're right, although many people from Louisiana would also have a southern accent, albeit a different one.

[Browncoat]

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I think you're right, although many people from Louisiana would also have a southern accent, albeit a different one.

I ga-ron-tee!  [/Justin Wilson].

[shapeshifter]

On 5/13/2022 at 11:49 PM, Cotypubby said:

Missy[Mandy] is 29 right? Why would her parents say they want nothing to do with a 29-year old woman having a baby? She said she hadn’t even told them Georgie’s age yet. 

This storyline is so weird. It keeps being played like this is a teen pregnancy and she’s 16 or something.

To me, (speaking from experience in 1983) the most realistic reason for 29-year-old Mandy's parents to tell her she's on her own with the baby in 1990 is that they are retired and are not planning to start supporting another family, and they already advised her to have an abortion if she can't support the baby herself or if there is no father involved who can do so.

That doesn't fit with the church-focused Cooper universe, but maybe the writers will go there? 

[appositival]

21 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

EVERYONE has an accent. (pet peeve)

Everyone has an accent except the queen of England, since it is "The Queen's English".

I also assume that her falsetto official voice is the unaccented one, which explains why no one else talks like that.

[grommit2]

Wow...Young Sheldon sure did take a turn to the dark side. 
I thought this show was supposed to be fun and humorous. 
The current story line is deeply serious, sad, angry, divisive (mom vs dad, family vs congregation). 
Was there turnover in the writing staff?
Yes, it is a serious story line, fraught with reality, but this is not what I tune in for.

[Zanzibar]

My recollection is that the show is supposed to take place somewhere in the Houston region.

Behold a bagel shop in Houston, founded in 1975.

https://www.nybagelsandcoffee.com/about

"Our father, Eugene "Chick" Kornhaber, became a bagel baker in New York after the end of WWII. Dad and his brother Bernie, and their wives, Leyla and Joyce, moved to Philadelphia and opened Brooklyn Bagels in 1967. In 1975, Dad and Mom and their son, Jay, opened New York Bagels here in Houston, and his brother-in-law, Ed, and sister, Robyn, came to join them soon after. We opened the deli in 1981, and the rest is history. We have been serving authentic, New York-style bagels and deli meals to several generations of the Houston community for almost 40 years! Today, we are thrilled to bring a new generation into our family of owners, with Michael Saghian stepping in to fill Jay's shoes. Together, Michael and Ed look forward to many more years of great eats and community involvement. The Bagel Shop Bakery is proud to serve as an HKA-certified facility."

[kwnyc]

Wow. Pastor Jeff really is a Howdy Doody-looking hypocrite. The Coopers have been kind to him personally: from George talking him through impending fatherhood to Mary helping him plan his wedding. Missy has even turned to him for advice and guidance.

But Missy is showing the hypothesis they worked on early in the series: Sheldon is the intellectual genius, Missy is the one with the emotional IQ of a truly good person. 

And they're handling Sheldon's adolescence as well as they can. Ian A. is no longer a sweet little boy, but growing up into a good-looking young man. And his having the University President call his mother to "fix" his family shows that he is suffering as well, in a uniquely Sheldon way.

George and Mary COULD find their way back to each other with a little professional counseling, but that's just not in the cards. 

This is how families fall apart. What's the saying: Tragedy plus time equals comedy.

ETA: If I were in the writers' room, I'd have Mary & George have a reconciliation before he dies. After all, Sheldon's in Germany and he might not have heard about it!

Edited May 19, 2022 by kwnyc

[Deskisamess]

On 5/13/2022 at 9:18 AM, Magnumfangirl said:

The church reaction to what's going on is ridiculous.  No church would have done that in 1992.  But it's typical for Hollywood.  🙄

Believe me, plenty of churches did stuff like this. I lived thru it, not gossip aimed at me, but at close friends. In the 90's. Almost exactly this. Had some serious flashbacks watching this episode.

My current church leadership wouldn't allow the gossip and pushing families out as it was shown in the episode. Thank goodness. But it happened plenty.

[Yeah No]

On 5/17/2022 at 6:14 PM, shapeshifter said:

To me, (speaking from experience in 1983) the most realistic reason for 29-year-old Mandy's parents to tell her she's on her own with the baby in 1990 is that they are retired and are not planning to start supporting another family, and they already advised her to have an abortion if she can't support the baby herself or if there is no father involved who can do so.

That doesn't fit with the church-focused Cooper universe, but maybe the writers will go there? 

Because this is potentially a spoiler on this subject, I'm putting it in a spoiler box just in case:

Spoiler

I just re-watched an episode of YS from season 1 in where older Sheldon narrating said that Georgie's first marriage happened when he was 19.  That's no guarantee it will be to Mandy but it could be!

Also I think the most realistic reason for Mandy's parents to tell her she's on her own with the baby might have something to do with disapproval based on old fashioned religious beliefs about having a baby out of wedlock.  I can see something like that still being the case in Texas at that time.

[b4pjoe]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Because this is potentially a spoiler on this subject, I'm putting it in a spoiler box just in case:

  Hide contents

I just re-watched an episode of YS from season 1 in where older Sheldon narrating said that Georgie's first marriage happened when he was 19.  That's no guarantee it will be to Mandy but it could be!

Also I think the most realistic reason for Mandy's parents to tell her she's on her own with the baby might have something to do with disapproval based on old fashioned religious beliefs about having a baby out of wedlock.  I can see something like that still being the case in Texas at that time.

Texas today is probably worse than it was back in the 90's.

[Yeah No]

Just now, b4pjoe said:

Texas today is probably worse than it was back in the 90's.

Perhaps Texas in general is, but I was referring to values her parents may have grown up with and believe in as a result of being members of a conservative Christian denomination.  Being a student of religions, especially Christian denominations going back 45 years I know that conservative Christian churches weren't any more socially progressive about sexual issues back in the '90s than they are today. That's a constant that hasn't changed much over the decades anywhere in the US.  Those churches have not budged on sexual issues like this and exert huge control over the beliefs of their members.

[shapeshifter]

28 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Perhaps Texas in general is, but I was referring to values her parents may have grown up with and believe in as a result of being members of a conservative Christian denomination.  Being a student of religions, especially Christian denominations going back 45 years I know that conservative Christian churches weren't any more socially progressive about sexual issues back in the '90s than they are today. That's a constant that hasn't changed much over the decades anywhere in the US.  Those churches have not budged on sexual issues like this and exert huge control over the beliefs of their members.

Agreed. 
But are Mandy's parents religious?
I can't recall.

[Yeah No]

25 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Agreed. 
But are Mandy's parents religious?
I can't recall.

We don't know, but I said "if" they were, then that could be a possible reason for them disapproving of a child out of wedlock to the point of not wanting to support her or the child.

And as we know that would not have been out of the realm of plausible in Texas.

[Welshman in Ca]

53 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

We don't know, but I said "if" they were, then that could be a possible reason for them disapproving of a child out of wedlock to the point of not wanting to support her or the child.

And as we know that would not have been out of the realm of plausible in Texas.

Or in any US state for that matter then and now.

[Yeah No]

1 minute ago, Welshman in Ca said:

Or in any US state for that matter then and now.

Yes, I already said that in a previous post here:

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

conservative Christian churches weren't any more socially progressive about sexual issues back in the '90s than they are today. That's a constant that hasn't changed much over the decades anywhere in the US. 

[Rebky]

Ten years ago, I moved to Austin, TX for a year. I was the only one with a southern accent. Everyone wanted to know where I was from (Kentucky). They immediately recognized the southern accent because none of them had it.

[Bort]

43 minutes ago, Rebky said:

Ten years ago, I moved to Austin, TX for a year. I was the only one with a southern accent. Everyone wanted to know where I was from (Kentucky). They immediately recognized the southern accent because none of them had it.

Austin tends to be full of California ex-pats, though. It, and really any of the large cities, are rather homogenous when it comes to the traditional Texas twang. If you go to the small towns like Medford is supposed to be, it’s twangy.

[violetwaves]

On 5/13/2022 at 7:16 AM, Yeah No said:

I was surprised too given how close I was to NY at the time.  By the mid '90s they were everywhere, though, although most of them sucked by NYC standards.  Now I live further away but we get great bagels.  It's surprising to learn that Texas had them so soon.  My Jewish grandfather retired to North Carolina in the '70s and '80s and was always complaining that he couldn't find bagels, so we used to bring a dozen with us when we visited.

ETA:

This quote from this article, written in the NYT in 1982:

So that's some reference as to how rare they were.

I know this is old but I had to answer being a native Texan. I don’t know what that article is talking about. Crawfish season is and has been for all my life (I’m middle aged) a huge thing in texas. I feel like people don’t understand that texas is not like most of the other southern states. It’s extremely diverse and has quite a prominent Jewish community. When the Jews fleeing during wwii were turned away from New York they tried to get into the country through Galveston and ended up establishing themselves here. Can speak from experience bagels werent a foreign concept in texas in the early 90’s in texas.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, violetwaves said:

When the Jews fleeing during wwii were turned away from New York they tried to get into the country through Galveston and ended up establishing themselves here. Can speak from experience bagels werent a foreign concept in texas in the early 90’s in texas.

FWIW, as often happens, local lore seems to be a bit different than documented history:

Quote

Between 1907 and 1914, a resettlement program, known as the Galveston Movement, was in operation to divert Jewish immigrants from eastern Europe away from the crowded-immigrant cities in the Northeast (wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Texas, tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/galveston-movement).

And in case I’m not the only one here whose memory of a bagel 🥯 reference in the episode has faded, Sheldon and President Hagemeyer have these lines:

• [SHELDON] You said if I ever had a problem, I could come to you and you'd fix it.
• [HAGEMEYER] When did I say that?
• [SHELDON] September 13th, 1991. You had just eaten a poppyseed bagel and had one stuck in your teeth.
• [HAGEMEYER] I'll take your word for it.

Like President Hagemeyer, I’ll take Sheldon’s word for it. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by shapeshifter