S03.E03: ben mendelsohn

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

As Barry and Gene take on new opportunities, Sally prepares for her first press junket - and Katie shares her concerns. With the Bolivians still in heavy pursuit, Hank reaches out to Fuches while Cristo

Original air date 2022.05.08

[raeb23]

This ep seemed so short, I was surprised when the credits started rolling. 

Poor Katie. It almost feels like she's being gaslighted by everyone she works with. She's communicated her concern about Barry's behaviour several times only to be told it's normal & he's a 'nice guy.' She seemed almost like she was trying to convince herself in that last interview.

I fear for Gene, he's breaking under the stress of everything he knows as well as Barry's threats. Everyone else on set might see Gene going off-script as just another example of him being a dick but how's Barry going to respond?

Of course Fuches is flourishing, herding goats in the middle of nowhere! 

Also, Barry taking the job to assasinate Fernando does not bode well for any of the parties involved.

[Irlandesa]

This was another incredible episode. 

I loved the way Barry told Fuches that he and Gene were going to be okay "through acting."  It's such a silly belief that it made me realize the whole premise is just like one SNL skit built out.  I loved seeing Mark Paul Gossalear as Hugh Manity.

And yeah, the punch is going to be written off as typical Gene. 

Carrigan had another great reaction shot when the other guy was suspicious of why they're going to go after the head Bolivian but not Cristobal.

I can see the writers had fun with the promo that Sally had to do for her show because that sounds exactly like what I've heard those interviews can be like.  Short and repetitive. 

28 minutes ago, raeb23 said:

Poor Katie. It almost feels like she's being gaslighted by everyone she works with. She's communicated her concern about Barry's behaviour several times only to be told it's normal & he's a 'nice guy.' She seemed almost like she was trying to convince herself in that last interview.

This was such a fantastically nuanced bit and shows how the system works to protect abusers even if the benefit to doing so isn't obvious.  Sally has her complicated reasons for deciding to ignore Barry's red flags/placate him.  Natalie, as her friend and assistant, is taking her cues from Sally.  Sally acted like it was normal so Natalie is going to work to make that the official position on set. It's not really about protecting Barry but about protecting Sally who appears to want to protect Barry.

And if Barry were famous, when stuff comes out about him, people will point to the interview that Katie did to maybe defend him.  See, she "knows" him and she thinks he's great.

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Irlandesa

[thuganomics85]

While I certainly hope Tom Holland gets a few more goes at it, Ben Mendelsohn as Spider-Man would be a sight to behold!

I missed that the show Barry and Gene are on is called "Hugh Manity."  Yeah, I can totally see that being a long running shows on a network (probably CBS!)  Also liked the casting of Mark-Paul Gossalear as I'm assuming himself playing the lead character, because it's another case of them getting a recognizable face playing a role you could totally see happen in real life (never forget Franklin & Bash!)

The scenes between Barry/Gene were magnetic.  Barry really had deluded himself into thinking this is all going to work out and doesn't see how Gene have nothing but seething hatred for him.  And Gene is at the end of his rope and not only doesn't to be able to shake Barry off, he doesn't seem to have an outlet elsewhere due to his past catching up with him.  Bill Hader and Henry Winkler are somehow upping their already impressive game here.

Really curious to see where they are going with this Katie character.  She seems to be the only who realizes that something is off about Barry, but not only is Sally still acting like everything is normal, everyone else seems to be falling in line.  I have to think Katie is going to somehow shake things up in a major way.

It's now Noho's turn to try and find away to save Cristobal.  I'm worried that his fellow gangster seems to be getting suspicious.  Plus, you just know bringing Barry on board will probably cause more issues.

Fuches seems to have a good way to get out for good, but is clearly going to let his need for vengeance against Barry stop him from ever taking that option.  Still can't believe that Stephen Root can be so menacing.

These episodes really are flying by.

[Traveller519]

However many years have passed since the premiere and I still love the music over the title card. Reminds me of going to see a movie in an art deco movie theater.

Things are setting up for the chickens to come home to roost for Barry on so many fronts. I can't tell who is most unpredictable at this point. I love that I have no idea how the season will play out

[grandmabegum]

I can't get the image of all the Bolivians drinking shakes at a Johnny Rockets out of my head. Their server would be walking on eggshells.

[Corgi-ears]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I missed that the show Barry and Gene are on is called "Hugh Manity."

The show is Laws of Humanity, its main character is Hugh Manity, and the casual revelation -- "Mr. Manity..." "Call me Hugh" -- was *chef's kiss* I'm pretty sure Hugh is second cousin to Constance Justice.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Corgi-ears

[cardigirl]

Loved it.  Now I have to wait another week for another installment.  Sigh. 

I think The Laws of Humanity just might keep Cousineau's punch and reaction in.  It was real, of course, but they only saw it as acting.  And sometimes going off script makes for a better show. 

I loved how even Fuches was impressed by Barry being on The Laws of Humanity. "That's a great show!" 

The genius of this show is how they set all these pieces in motion and now we get to watch how they bring them in for the complete picture. 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by cardigirl

[BC4ME]

31 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

ink The Laws of Humanity just might keep Cousineau's punch and reaction in.  It was real, of course, but they only saw it as acting.  And sometimes going off script makes for a better show. 

My thoughts exactly. And after they decide it was great, Barry would have already gone back to the old destructive stuff. 

If this ends up being true, I'm wondering if Gene will get more acting jobs because of it. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I think The Laws of Humanity just might keep Cousineau's punch and reaction in.  It was real, of course, but they only saw it as acting.  And sometimes going off script makes for a better show. 

That's what I was thinking too. I half expected the director to come running after Gene when he stormed out of the studio to tell him how great that was and offer him another part, or a recurring part on the show. I still think something like that might happen.

I had to look up Ben Mendelsohn in imdb just to get the joke. 

D'Arcy Carden is criminally underused in this role. 

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Fuches seems to have a good way to get out for good, but is clearly going to let his need for vengeance against Barry stop him from ever taking that option.  Still can't believe that Stephen Root can be so menacing.

 

And such a great contrast to Barry, who keeps trying to be like the one kid in the story who didn't choose revenge, but keeps getting pulled back in because he's also desperate to protect himself. This show just created an amazing set up to look at love and violence and how they can go together in good ways (like making people not want to kill each other) and bad (abusive relationships). 

[aghst]

Winkler was amazing with that stone face through most of his scenes until his blow up.

Unfortunately he's aged a lot since season 2 and it's noticeable.

It's kind of a bummer though, we don't get the manic Cousineau, he was all subdued and seeing beaten-down.

I realize they have to make it realistic for him to get over how Janice died, if he gets over it at all.  But how long did he know Janice, maybe a few weeks?  She's the love of his life and her death now changes him, makes him sullen and withdrawn?

Even before he met Janice, he had this manic energy in season 1.  Turns out it was partly because he was an asshole, grifting these actors for his classes.  But it was a terrific characterization.

 

Not seeing a clear reason for Barry to relapse into hired assassin for NoHo unless the stress of the situation, him having to decide what to do with Cousineau -- because he doesn't want to kill Gene or his son and grandson but he can't have the threat of being turned in hanging over his head either.  Maybe it's more to keep the NoHo character and story line alive, because Barry is his deus ex machina, the one that always rescues him.

Also not convinced that Fuches would first love it in Chechnya -- unless he was getting it on with that young woman in addition to loving goat herding -- and now is unhappy that Barry told him he had sorted things out with Barry.  Fuches wasn't shown as vindictive until Barry threatened to cut him out.  

Overall this season is much darker than the first two.  There are good comic scenes but Barry looks more menacing, more likely to explode again, instead of leaving that life behind him.  On the surface, he's living with Sally, who's having some professional success and he's gotten a major role himself.  Yet he's anguished by Cousineau, a father figure who sees him as a monster, and to a lesser extent, by Fuches, another father figure who thinks Barry betrayed him.

I think they miss some of the screwball energy of the acting class students from the first two seasons.  The cast additions this year contribute to the anxious energy of the season.  Katie thinks Barry is abusing Sally based on one event on the set?  But Barry hasn't hit Sally nor was verbally or emotionally abusive.  Sure yelling at her in front of her workers wasn't good but that was more a reflection of his anguished state than lashing out specifically at Sally.

 

I don't know if Hader wrote the season this way to be more "serious" about the show.  They've shown Barry killing a lot of people in the show so he can't be going all the time for laughs.  No doubt violent people have difficulty leaving their past behind.  But I for one don't have expectations of this show in the same way I expected antiheroes like Tony Soprano or Walter White to get their "just desserts" at the end of those shows.

I'm not saying whether Barry is redeemable or not is an unimportant question.  But it weighs down the tone of the show and wades into morality which make not make it as enjoyable to watch.  

It's been awhile since I watched History of Violence.  The main character played by Vigo Mortensen had a violent past and tried to leave the life behind.  For years he lived a low-key existence until he was confronted with threats to his family which forced him to out himself, IIRC.

I don't recall if the point was that violent people can't change, can't lead normal lives or that they can't escape their past or that recidivism is inevitable.  

Barry's timeline seems so accelerated compared to History of Violence.  He accidentally crosses paths with Cousineau, Sally and others while murdering one of the acting class students.  He really hasn't had a chance to settle into a normal life.  In season 2 he has a big explosion because of that fateful decision to kill Janice, to preserve his attempt to leave his life as an assassin behind.

Barry landing a major role should be some sign of progress in his transition.  Maybe he really needed to get therapy instead of going cold turkey.  But it seems like too many people he's developed ties to are pushing him back.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Not seeing a clear reason for Barry to relapse into hired assassin for NoHo unless the stress of the situation, him having to decide what to do with Cousineau -- because he doesn't want to kill Gene or his son and grandson but he can't have the threat of being turned in hanging over his head either.  Maybe it's more to keep the NoHo character and story line alive, because Barry is his deus ex machina, the one that always rescues him.

 

I think it's because he bounces back and forth from one extreme to another. When he thought he had made himself "good" by getting him a job and so making up for what he'd done, he was healthy. When he learned that Cousineau hadn't really forgiven him, he went back to thinking he was just a killer by defintion and might as well be that.

1 hour ago, aghst said:

 Katie thinks Barry is abusing Sally based on one event on the set?  But Barry hasn't hit Sally nor was verbally or emotionally abusive.  Sure yelling at her in front of her workers wasn't good but that was more a reflection of his anguished state than lashing out specifically at Sally.

Yeah, here's the thing about that. Katie's reacting to the fact that he raised his voice and they were in front of people, and Sally maybe went back into abusive victim mode in response. And maybe I'm crazy...but to me it seemed like Barry's outburst was less disturbing than people are making it. Because when I think about what he said, it was actually perfectly reasonable. Yelling is never pleasant and he should be aware that he's scaring Sally because it doesn't seem like he means to be trying to dominate her or terrorize her. 

But he was actually being pretty good about his issues there. He desperately wanted to get Cousineau a job. Sure, Sally didn't understand why he was desperate and his desperation was inappropriate for the situation without that knowledge. But he was right that Sally was lying when she said she cared as much as he did while she was blowing it off and clearly *not* wanting to give him a job on her show. Likewise, when Sally laughed at Barry he angrily said, "Do not laugh at me!" which is again, not unreasonable. 

So I honestly don't know if I'm supposed to see this as Barry being abusive just because he yelled and Sally was frightened, or the way it seems to me, which is someone not being overall abusive, but just openly expressing anger at exactly what he was angry at in that moment about the other person's behavior and then walking out. Like he wasn't abusive, he just made people uncomfortable by expressing real emotion.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

So I honestly don't know if I'm supposed to see this as Barry being abusive just because he yelled and Sally was frightened, or the way it seems to me, which is someone not being overall abusive, but just openly expressing anger at exactly what he was angry at in that moment about the other person's behavior and then walking out. Like he wasn't abusive, he just made people uncomfortable by expressing real emotion.

I don't know.  I think we'll need to see more of how their dynamic plays out this season.  I will say this, though, I would absolutely find it blood-runs-cold terrifying if the husband of one of my coworkers came in and chose that way to communicate with her. 

Katie doesn't know if Sally is being abused but that was an over-the-top response she witnessed.  She gets to have a bad feeling about it and him.  She didn't try to intervene.  She just decided that he was not a person she wanted to be around.  Her gut is telling her something about him and even if he's not currently hurting Sally*, he is a violent man.  The gut isn't wrong about that.

*But it's a good question about intent vs. impact.  And how sure are we that he doesn't want to control what she does.  The reason we raise our voices is to forcefully put forth our wants and desires in a way we don't think a calm voice will accomplish.

[arc]

"Hugh Manity" I'M DYING. That is such a CBS-ass thing to do.

This season taking Sally into the big time has made her half of the show almost a reboot of the very long-ago Fox show Action.

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I think it's because he bounces back and forth from one extreme to another. When he thought he had made himself "good" by getting him a job and so making up for what he'd done, he was healthy. When he learned that Cousineau hadn't really forgiven him, he went back to thinking he was just a killer by defintion and might as well be that.

Yeah, here's the thing about that. Katie's reacting to the fact that he raised his voice and they were in front of people, and Sally maybe went back into abusive victim mode in response. And maybe I'm crazy...but to me it seemed like Barry's outburst was less disturbing than people are making it. Because when I think about what he said, it was actually perfectly reasonable. Yelling is never pleasant and he should be aware that he's scaring Sally because it doesn't seem like he means to be trying to dominate her or terrorize her. 

But he was actually being pretty good about his issues there. He desperately wanted to get Cousineau a job. Sure, Sally didn't understand why he was desperate and his desperation was inappropriate for the situation without that knowledge. But he was right that Sally was lying when she said she cared as much as he did while she was blowing it off and clearly *not* wanting to give him a job on her show. Likewise, when Sally laughed at Barry he angrily said, "Do not laugh at me!" which is again, not unreasonable. 

So I honestly don't know if I'm supposed to see this as Barry being abusive just because he yelled and Sally was frightened, or the way it seems to me, which is someone not being overall abusive, but just openly expressing anger at exactly what he was angry at in that moment about the other person's behavior and then walking out. Like he wasn't abusive, he just made people uncomfortable by expressing real emotion.

Yes, from Katie's pov it seems like the real issue is gaslighting. She has good reason to not want to be around this guy, and everyone's acting like this either didn't happen or it's not an issue. It's not that they have to tell her that yes, he's a monster, but I feel like part of her disorientation is that people aren't acknowledging that she's got good reason to feel that way. And she's on a show about abuse!

[Nordly Beaumont]

23 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Carrigan had another great reaction shot when the other guy was suspicious of why they're going to go after the head Bolivian but not Cristobal

I think I could be happy with 15 minutes of plot and 15 minutes of close ups of Anthony Carrigan's face!

Can't wait to see how this all shakes out!

[LADreamr]

Watching Barry's behavior this week, I realized that how much I like Bill might be clouding how much I'm not supposed to like Barry, and I wondered if it's supposed to be that ambiguous?  I mean, does Barry have enough moments where he is also likable, that it makes the handwaving of bad behavior easier?  And does he really want to be better, or does he want to appear to be better, for his own self-preservation, using the likability he does have to help keep him afloat, even if it's just a facade? 

NoHo Hank is extremely likable too, but I think in his case, it's part of what is going to endanger him. We actually get close-ups of his eyes watching his world crumbling.  

Also loved the "Laws of Humanity" being something people think of as a great show, when it actually looks like absolute garbage.  Just seemed like a reflection of Barry himself - the accepted idea of it being great overshadowing the fact that it really isn't.

[Milburn Stone]

Me five (or whatever number) on thinking Laws of Humanity is going to keep in the punch. And further, that it will blossom into Gene's big comeback, the one he'd given up hope for but wants more than anything else in this life. And that this will compromise him by making him complicit in keeping Barry's secret, because he won't want to give up his second-act career, and the longer he keeps the secret, the more of a co-conspirator he becomes.

Will be interesting to see Barry's work-life balance between famous actor and assassin. He might benefit from being severed.

[sistermagpie]

52 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Me five (or whatever number) on thinking Laws of Humanity is going to keep in the punch. And further, that it will blossom into Gene's big comeback, the one he'd given up hope for but wants more than anything else in this life. And that this will compromise him by making him complicit in keeping Barry's secret, because he won't want to give up his second-act career, and the longer he keeps the secret, the more of a co-conspirator he becomes.

 

Seems like if that was the case, though, it would also complicate things with the show (not that this is a bad thing, obviously). That is, punching another actor in a scene is not something a TV show can condone any more than people can condone inappropriate touching in love scenes etc. It would be pretty ironic to have Katie feeling confused by the attitudes about Barry, who doesn't work for her show, on one hand, and Gene--who already ruined his career with just this sort of violent behavior, including one incident where he abused the showrunner of this show--being rewarded for punching another actor on a whim on the other.

Edited May 10, 2022 by sistermagpie

[Tachi Rocinante]

Starting to lose interest.  Barry is turning into a short-sighted simpleton, and they've dumbed down Fuches too. Sally is insufferable and  just a tool for other people's issues.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Tachi Rocinante

[Ottis]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:43 PM, Irlandesa said:

I loved the way Barry told Fuches that he and Gene were going to be okay "through acting."  It's such a silly belief that it made me realize the whole premise is just like one SNL skit built out. 

As much as I enjoy the show, this ep made me wonder what we are supposed to be getting out of it besides some laughs. Is the point that Barry is a damaged person who hurts everyone around him? Because it sure looks that way. In which case, I don't really want to root for him. If that poor young actress ends up getting hurt (either physically or in terms of career) because she calls Barry on his bullshit, then this will have approached Sopranos mafia levels of "destroy everything it touches."

28 minutes ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

Barry is turning into a short-sighted simpleton, and they've dumbed down Fuches too.

I agree, and this seems to be part of the problem. Is Barry still trying to improve himself to escape from his past? Or is he just continuing that past and breaking down under the strain of maintaining the facade while interacting with his acting world? If he is no longer trying to improve himself, then I will lose interest, too.

The TV show character being called Mr. Manity ("Call me Hugh") made me lose it.

[tennisgurl]

 Ben Mendelsohn would certainly be out of the box casting for Spider-Man. You can tell the show was having fun with that interview portion, I can imagine the actors and show runners have done several of those and I hear its very much like that. The same questions over and over, rapid fire with about three seconds between interviewers. 

I don't know who's losing their grasp on reality faster, Barry or Fuches. Barry's control is clearly crumbling as he desperately tries to clean up the mess his life has become, to the point of which he really does think that helping Gene get a bit part on a network procedural will make up for Barry murdering his girlfriend, while Fuches is apparently considering an army of humans turned avenging leopards as a solid plan to get back at Barry, or at least giving up everything to get revenge on Barry even if there is no reason to at this point. Barry is a monster of his own making, he should be counting his lucky stars that things didn't get worse for him when Barry got sick of his shit.

I feel bad for Katie, she clearly feels like she's going crazy, seeing these signs that her boss is in an abusive relationship while in a show about abusive relationships while everyone else just tells her that she's imagining things. Even if its not an abusive relationship, she is clearly picking up on Barry being a very violent man with an explosive temper, which is very much true, I cant blame her for not wanting to be around the guy. I'm worried about her, I fear she might end up looking into Barry and finding out something he would prefer to keep hidden, especially as he's clearly mentally spiraling to the point where he can't cover his tracks or control himself the way he used to be able to.

The Laws of Humanity was brilliant, it looks like exactly the kind of show that would run for fifteen seasons on CBS. Starring Mark Paul Gossalear as Hugh Manity.

[Soobs]

On 5/9/2022 at 7:55 AM, iMonrey said:

D'Arcy Carden is criminally underused in this role. 

The delicate and thorough way she sniffed Sally's pits cracked me up!

 

3 hours ago, LADreamr said:

Watching Barry's behavior this week, I realized that how much I like Bill might be clouding how much I'm not supposed to like Barry, and I wondered if it's supposed to be that ambiguous?  I mean, does Barry have enough moments where he is also likable, that it makes the handwaving of bad behavior easier?  And does he really want to be better, or does he want to appear to be better, for his own self-preservation, using the likability he does have to help keep him afloat, even if it's just a facade? 

NoHo Hank is extremely likable too, but I think in his case, it's part of what is going to endanger him. We actually get close-ups of his eyes watching his world crumbling.  

Also loved the "Laws of Humanity" being something people think of as a great show, when it actually looks like absolute garbage.  Just seemed like a reflection of Barry himself - the accepted idea of it being great overshadowing the fact that it really isn't.

I think the contrast between the likeable Barry/ murderous, bully Barry is really interesting and Bill Hader plays it so well. Although his likeability factor has so far been receding this season. I wonder if they'll do a redemption arc for him in the 4th season, which has apparently already been written. Love your comparison of the show to Barry's personality. I didn't think of that but now that you said it, absolutely yes!

I like how they are addressing abuse/ toxic behavior on sets in such a sly/ funny/ smart way.

NoHo Hank needs to get out! I could see him opening up a sneaker shop on Melrose.

[aghst]

I guess they can't have Barry completely close off his assassin's life.  After all that was the initial hook or gimmick of the show, about a hired killer stumbling into acting.

But as I noted, Noho Hank just became a big character and they had to beef up his story and also keep Barry and Noho involved with each other, which means Barry has to pick up his gun again.

I don't know, people drift apart.  Most of Barry's clients aren't trying to be friends with him or he with them.  But something about Hank and Barry clicked so even though Barry is trying to compartmentalize his past, he can't quite quit Noho?

Could they have Barry and Noho Hank be on completely separate tracks, their plots never converging again, except maybe at a very superficial level?  Probably not, so Barry feels the pull but because of his messed up situation, he doesn't have to be coerced to be pulled back in.

 

 

 

[juno]

4 hours ago, Soobs said:

NoHo Hank needs to get out! I could see him opening up a sneaker shop on Melrose.

I am watching the crap out of this show! Get er done!

[Dev F]

13 hours ago, Ottis said:

As much as I enjoy the show, this ep made me wonder what we are supposed to be getting out of it besides some laughs. Is the point that Barry is a damaged person who hurts everyone around him?

I mean . . . in a way, I think it kind of is? That's more or less what I always took the show to be about: it satirizes both the vapid positivity of L.A. self-improvement culture and the crowd-pleasing edginess of modern antihero dramas by telling the story of a cold-blooded murderer who deludes himself into believing that he can redeem himself through acting.

But in another way, I share your unease. Because the meatiest part of that story is the delusion—the ways in which Barry convinces himself that he's not a monster, and what that self-deception says about him and the L.A. scene—and now that Barry is just driving around with his acting teacher in the trunk of his car, the veil of that delusion is all but ripped away. And then what are we left with? The fact that Barry is damaged and destructive is essential to the story, but I don't know that it's interesting enough in and of itself to be the story.

Honestly, the parts of these first few episodes that I've found by far the most interesting are the ones that remained focused on the Hollywood self-deception: Katie's attempts to reckon with Barry's violent nature, only to run into the brick wall of an industry that conditions people to smile and look the other way. "He's totally harmless. I'm sure he was having a bad day. I was in an acting class with Barry, and he's a really good guy. He yelled at us a few times, and, you know, he told us that he killed a few people in . . . some war, and that it really messed him up. But, I don't think that makes him violent."

Edited May 11, 2022 by Dev F

[cardigirl]

So far, three episodes in, I still find this show so compelling. I don't think the original concept has changed. Barry has always been a little lost, given his experiences during the war he served in. Because he had no solid anchor, Fuches was able to scoop him up and use him as a highly paid hit man. Barry didn't care, they were just jobs to him. Fuches and he were a unit, but not a unit that gave him much support. 

Then he found the acting class, and he suddenly felt  hope again. He tried to go straight, no longer needing to be the highly effective killer he had become. Even so, the desire to protect all that he had just found (the acting class, Gene Cousineau, finding "love" with Sally, a new purpose) overcame his desire to fit in and stop killing, and he killed Janice, sealing himself into "bad" permanently. That and killing his friend, who was innocent of the hitman life, make it impossible for him to be redeemed (in my eyes) but the absurdity of everyone accepting Barry as just a person, not a dangerous one, is the comedy.

And we've also seen viciousness from other cast members, without resorting to murder. Sally is an excellent example of the viciousness self-absorption can lead to. Barry leaving the hitman life for the life of a struggling actor is going from one dangerous life to another in some ways. 

  

                               

[Ottis]

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I don't think the original concept has changed.

 

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

and he killed Janice, sealing himself into "bad" permanently. That and killing his friend, who was innocent of the hitman life, make it impossible for him to be redeemed

You just stated how the show has changed. If Barry can't be redeemed, why do we care how other characters who don't know he is a killer react to him? *We* know he is a killer, and apparently that's all he will be. Therefore, why watch?

Or maybe more precisely, if the thing that made Barry compelling as a show was (deep breath for run on sentence) the story of a guy trained to kill who became really good at it but who realized continuing to do it was destroying him inside so he tried to escape that life and find something more happy for himself and yet keeps getting pulled back into situations that require him to be what he doesn't want to be (and that was the attraction for me, and I suspect for many viewers), then that attraction is gone if Barry decides he is a killer after all and can't control himself any longer. 

 

 

[cardigirl]

17 minutes ago, Ottis said:

 

You just stated how the show has changed. If Barry can't be redeemed, why do we care how other characters who don't know he is a killer react to him? *We* know he is a killer, and apparently that's all he will be. Therefore, why watch?

Or maybe more precisely, if the thing that made Barry compelling as a show was (deep breath for run on sentence) the story of a guy trained to kill who became really good at it but who realized continuing to do it was destroying him inside so he tried to escape that life and find something more happy for himself and yet keeps getting pulled back into situations that require him to be what he doesn't want to be (and that was the attraction for me, and I suspect for many viewers), then that attraction is gone if Barry decides he is a killer after all and can't control himself any longer. 

 

 

I think that the premise was to show that wherever you go, there you are.  Or something like that. The comedy comes from the audience knowing Barry's intentions, yet all the people around him do not see who he is, except for Fuches and now, Gene. 

I love this show! 

[sistermagpie]

7 hours ago, Dev F said:

I mean . . . in a way, I think it kind of is? That's more or less what I always took the show to be about: it satirizes both the vapid positivity of L.A. self-improvement culture and the crowd-pleasing edginess of modern antihero dramas by telling the story of a cold-blooded murderer who deludes himself into believing that he can redeem himself through acting.

But in another way, I share your unease. Because the meatiest part of that story is the delusion—the ways in which Barry convinces himself that he's not a monster, and what that self-deception says about him and the L.A. scene—and now that Barry is just driving around with his acting teacher in the trunk of his car, the veil of that delusion is all but ripped away. And then what are we left with? The fact that Barry is damaged and destructive is essential to the story, but I don't know that it's interesting enough in and of itself to be the story.

 

59 minutes ago, Ottis said:

 

You just stated how the show has changed. If Barry can't be redeemed, why do we care how other characters who don't know he is a killer react to him? *We* know he is a killer, and apparently that's all he will be. Therefore, why watch?

Or maybe more precisely, if the thing that made Barry compelling as a show was (deep breath for run on sentence) the story of a guy trained to kill who became really good at it but who realized continuing to do it was destroying him inside so he tried to escape that life and find something more happy for himself and yet keeps getting pulled back into situations that require him to be what he doesn't want to be (and that was the attraction for me, and I suspect for many viewers), then that attraction is gone if Barry decides he is a killer after all and can't control himself any longer. 

I think the delusion has just shifted a bit, making it still compelling. Because now Barry's gotten to the point where he understands that "forgiveness has to be earned," but in his delusion he thinks that means...this. He thought it would be a quick fix to get Cousineau a job, and because he was terrified Cousineau (who has his own issues with violent behavior that he doesn't acknowledge but other people do) went along with it, but then shattered the delusion by telling him it didn't work.

So Barry fell back into his despair mode of him just "being a monster" and there's nothing he can do, but it's early in the season, so I think he's got some more enlightenment coming. He tried an easy way to earn forgiveness and it didn't work, but he may then think more deeply about it--meanwhile, the industry is encouraging people to look away from the problem when it benefits them (because Barry hasn't caused problems on sets he's working on) and the underworld people are encouraging him to kill for their benefit. So at this point he still has this kernal of an idea that he needs to actually do something to be the person he wants to be, but the world makes it far to easy to not do it.

[shapeshifter]

On 5/9/2022 at 2:24 PM, aghst said:

Winkler was amazing with that stone face through most of his scenes until his blow up. Unfortunately he's aged a lot since season 2 and it's noticeable.

Winkler looking aged works perfectly for me given the loss of Janice.

On 5/9/2022 at 2:24 PM, aghst said:

I don't know if Hader wrote the season this way to be more "serious" about the show.

I love knowing that Hader wrote seasons 3 and 4 in the deepest, darkest days of the pandemic.

[EtheltoTillie]

On 5/10/2022 at 12:18 PM, tennisgurl said:

 Ben Mendelsohn would certainly be out of the box casting for Spider-Man. You can tell the show was having fun with that interview portion, I can imagine the actors and show runners have done several of those and I hear its very much like that. The same questions over and over, rapid fire with about three seconds between interviewers. 

I don't know who's losing their grasp on reality faster, Barry or Fuches. Barry's control is clearly crumbling as he desperately tries to clean up the mess his life has become, to the point of which he really does think that helping Gene get a bit part on a network procedural will make up for Barry murdering his girlfriend, while Fuches is apparently considering an army of humans turned avenging leopards as a solid plan to get back at Barry, or at least giving up everything to get revenge on Barry even if there is no reason to at this point. Barry is a monster of his own making, he should be counting his lucky stars that things didn't get worse for him when Barry got sick of his shit.

I feel bad for Katie, she clearly feels like she's going crazy, seeing these signs that her boss is in an abusive relationship while in a show about abusive relationships while everyone else just tells her that she's imagining things. Even if its not an abusive relationship, she is clearly picking up on Barry being a very violent man with an explosive temper, which is very much true, I cant blame her for not wanting to be around the guy. I'm worried about her, I fear she might end up looking into Barry and finding out something he would prefer to keep hidden, especially as he's clearly mentally spiraling to the point where he can't cover his tracks or control himself the way he used to be able to.

The Laws of Humanity was brilliant, it looks like exactly the kind of show that would run for fifteen seasons on CBS. Starring Mark Paul Gossalear as Hugh Manity.

This is another time I have failed to recognize Mark Paul Gosselar. He’s having a resurgence in these stunt cameos. 

[rmontro]

I see some people are talking about how or if the show has changed, and I think it has.  There is a different feel to it.  But I think the problem is that it's simply become too over the top.  Which is not to say I'm not enjoying it anymore, I am, just not quite as much as I used to.