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S23: Allison Holker


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Didn't they learn their lesson the last time?

 

 

I think the lesson last time was that it didn't matter what style Tyne was trained in because Bill was a terrible dancer and butchered even the simplest cha-cha choreography. This year, if Allison gets a contender, I think she might handicap him because I don't see her choreographing on the level of Cheryl, Karina, or - sigh - Sharna, as they have with their capable partners.

Edited by chocolatine
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But that's the real issue - we know that Bill Nye could move quite well when he demonstrated the swing dance, so how much more would he have been capable of if he'd had a pro who knew what they were doing?  I love Allison and don't really want to watch her struggle and fail or see her celeb struggle and fail either, but I just don't see how she could possibly teach/choreograph/perform well something that she doesn't really know herself.

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Allison has a lot of experience doing Ballroom even if most of it's behind the practice door and is mostly Contemporaryfied. It is the teaching technique she's not an expert in that would be the problem. I think she'll have someone help her Choreograph the routine and demonstrate to her star. I'm sure she'll Either get Argentine Tango or Contemporary the first week. 

Edited by tarotx
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I don't think they've ever done AT in the first week. In the recent seasons, the go-to dances for Week 1 seem to be Cha-Cha and Contemporary and maybe Foxtrot here and there, so my guess is she and her celebrity will have contemporary that first week. And they'll likely score very high if she gets someone young and half-way decent. It's as the weeks go by we'll start to see how well she can handle the show. 

 

As others, I too adore Alison and think she's a phenomenal dancer. Her and Derek's dances during the Results shows were all really amazing to watch. But yeah it's one thing for her to pick up ballroom choreography from Derek or some other ballroom dancer who knows the technique, who's been dancing it their whole life and another for her to teach it to someone who has never danced ballroom in their life and may not be a trained dancer at all. Like Allison is a trained dancer, so of course with just some practice she can pick up a style she's not used to. But will she be good enough and knowledgeable enough to teach it to a celebrity who may have zero dance background.

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It's really not that hard to teach basic technique to beginners. There's Latin technique and Ballroom technique with a few variations in each. Frame, rise and fall, and how to move the hips starting from the floor are pretty universal. I could do a decent job at it, and my training is in C&W and Swing! Allison might get into trouble if they give her someone with real chops like a Gilles, but I'm sure she will deal with it. We've certainly seen Rhumba hybrids before.

 

She will be tarred and feathered on the internet though, if she gets someone who can't dance and can't be taught, like Tyne did. I hope she gets someone that can learn and move so we can see what her fresh choreography perspective is. 

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She will be tarred and feathered on the internet though, if she gets someone who can't dance and can't be taught, like Tyne did.

 

 

I disagree with this.  We have no reason to believe that Bill Nye could not dance or could not be taught.  When he was demonstrating swing dancing in his first introduction, it was clear that he was capable of moving quite well and clearly he had learned to swing dance.  I think the problem was that Tyne was not a ballroom dancer and so did not know how to teach or to choreograph ballroom.  If you watch SYTYCD at all, then you know that most of the dancers struggle when it comes to ballroom and they end up doing a "contemporized" ballroom instead of a more traditional ballroom.  I think it does a real disservice to ballroom dancers to insinuate that anyone could teach it if they know a few basic moves.  I think Tyne proved that's not the case at all.  As I said, I love Allison, but I actually don't want to see her on DWTS.  There are so many really good and talented ballroom dancers who could do this - I don't want to see contemporary dancers masquerading as ballroom dancers.  Ugh.  Just think of the wonderful people they've already used that fans would love to see back - Anna, Kym, Lacey, Chelsie, Ashley Del Grosso.  They've got Jenna in the troupe who is a fabulous dancer - give her a chance as a pro.  There's Anya and Ashleigh and Iveta who were ballroom contestants on SYTYCD that might be able to be tapped as pros.  They don't need to get non-ballroom dancers to use for pros.  I just think that's both stupid and insulting. 

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I disagree with this.  We have no reason to believe that Bill Nye could not dance or could not be taught.  When he was demonstrating swing dancing in his first introduction, it was clear that he was capable of moving quite well and clearly he had learned to swing dance.  I think the problem was that Tyne was not a ballroom dancer and so did not know how to teach or to choreograph ballroom.  If you watch SYTYCD at all, then you know that most of the dancers struggle when it comes to ballroom and they end up doing a "contemporized" ballroom instead of a more traditional ballroom.  I think it does a real disservice to ballroom dancers to insinuate that anyone could teach it if they know a few basic moves.  I think Tyne proved that's not the case at all.  As I said, I love Allison, but I actually don't want to see her on DWTS.  There are so many really good and talented ballroom dancers who could do this - I don't want to see contemporary dancers masquerading as ballroom dancers.  Ugh.  Just think of the wonderful people they've already used that fans would love to see back - Anna, Kym, Lacey, Chelsie, Ashley Del Grosso.  They've got Jenna in the troupe who is a fabulous dancer - give her a chance as a pro.  There's Anya and Ashleigh and Iveta who were ballroom contestants on SYTYCD that might be able to be tapped as pros.  They don't need to get non-ballroom dancers to use for pros.  I just think that's both stupid and insulting. 

 

I probably have as much information about Allison's training as you do, and I generally agree with you that Bill Nye showed some ability to do swing dance but I wouldn't extrapolate that the lack of ability that he showed in other forms of dance was all down to Tyne's lack of experience in ballroom/latin.  I don't know what experience she did or did not have.  I believe, because I've seen this weakness in other newbee pros who DO have extensive ballroom dancing training, that she hadn't figured out the best way to hide Bill Nye's weaknesses and accentuate his strengths.  It even took Derek quite a while to hone this this particular skill (although he is now a master at it).

 

However, the main reason I quoted your post was about the section I bolded.  While I concur that in recent years the little ballroom that is given to the dancetestants on SYTYCD is highly contemp-ified, Allison was on season 2 and that was not what was happening then.  The ballroom was closer to standard than not - and often either hilarious or excruciating to watch. 

 

Allison was 18 when her season aired. That was in 2006 - 8 years ago.  She indicated back then that she was interested in learning more ballroom/latin dancing and I believe she started taking classes not long after. I also believe that she is a skilled dancer and could pick up a great deal of ballroom technique even if she took classes only half of those 8 intervening years.  It is not impossible for ballroom trained dancers to study and become proficient in contemporary dance (see Tanisha Belnap from the current SYTYCD season) so it would also not be impossible for a trained contemporary dancer to study and become proficient at ballroom dancing. 

 

All of this is conjecture on my part, but I haven't seen any actual facts that indicate this point of view is less possible than one that suggests Allison has hardly any or merely desultory training in ballroom.  I'm willing to wait and see how it goes for her.  It will be a big challenge regardless of her degree of training, as it is for all the Pros on the show.  I think her biggest challenge will be living up to the hype if/when she has to choreograph a contemporary routine as I think viewers who know her will have extremely high expectations. I hope she can live up to them.  (Emma did well with the other Bill, but she wasn't very well known so the bar was pretty low for her as far as expectations go - AND she had an endearing contestant.)

 

One last thought on this subject... It seems that the younger dancers (especially Derek and Mark) don't make a big distinction between ballroom and other forms of dancing.  Derek has choreographed for ice dancers, Sonya Teyah (contemporary from SYTYCD) has choreographed for ballet companies (one that Chehon, male winner of SYTYCD Season 9 was in) and Mark Ballas was able to free himself from the traditional expectations of DWTS by choreographing a Cha-Cha for SYTYCD season 8.  That may not be what many views tune in to DWTS to see, but it seems to be the way dancing on TV is evolving. 

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I probably have as much information about Allison's training as you do, and I generally agree with you that Bill Nye showed some ability to do swing dance but I wouldn't extrapolate that the lack of ability that he showed in other forms of dance was all down to Tyne's lack of experience in ballroom/latin.  . . .

 

All of this is conjecture on my part, but I haven't seen any actual facts that indicate this point of view is less possible than one that suggests Allison has hardly any or merely desultory training in ballroom.  I'm willing to wait and see how it goes for her.  It will be a big challenge regardless of her degree of training, as it is for all the Pros on the show.  

 

I didn't mean to lay it all on Tyne, but I do think her lack of ballroom experience played a big part in his troubles.  He was willing, he seemed to have some natural rhythm, and we saw that he could move easily so I believe that another pro with more ballroom experience would have been able to get more out of him, but obviously that's just conjecture on my part.  Since he never got a chance to dance with someone like Cheryl or Kim, we will never know for sure. 

 

As for Allison, I'll wait and see with her, but I'm honestly just disappointed that DWTS decided to go outside the ballroom world for a new pro.  It seems so unnecessary when they have so many talented ballroom dancers they could choose from.  I also think it's kind of insulting to the ballroom dancers to bring in a contemporary dancer to teach ballroom.  There's just no need for it.  Give the work and exposure to a ballroom dancer first and foremost, especially since very few people seem to really enjoy either the contemporary or jazz on DWTS.  I am probably in the minority, but as much as I love Allison, I'm predisposed to not want to see on this show as a pro.  Guest appearances are great.  If they want to hire her to help the regular pros when they have to do contemporary, that would be a terrific idea.  As a regular pro - I'd just rather see a ballroom dancer get the work.

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As for Allison, I'll wait and see with her, but I'm honestly just disappointed that DWTS decided to go outside the ballroom world for a new pro.  It seems so unnecessary when they have so many talented ballroom dancers they could choose from.  I also think it's kind of insulting to the ballroom dancers to bring in a contemporary dancer to teach ballroom.  There's just no need for it.  Give the work and exposure to a ballroom dancer first and foremost, especially since very few people seem to really enjoy either the contemporary or jazz on DWTS.  I am probably in the minority, but as much as I love Allison, I'm predisposed to not want to see on this show as a pro.  Guest appearances are great.  If they want to hire her to help the regular pros when they have to do contemporary, that would be a terrific idea.  As a regular pro - I'd just rather see a ballroom dancer get the work.

My feelings exactly.  I love Allison's dancing and I remember her very well from Season 2 SYTYCD - she was extraordinary.  But I would much rather watch a competition ballroom professional be hired as a new pro. Additionally, I remember from SYTYCD that Allison did not have the type of personality that communicates well to an audience.  She was an amazing and talented dancer but was sent home earlier than expected.  DWTS requires that their professionals be able to dance, teach, AND have a compelling/magnetic personality.  Those pros that don't are sent home early and not asked back.  IMO, talent is not the only ingredient that is necessary to be a successful pro.

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I've seen videos of Bill Nye swing dancing, and he looks exactly like many men that I've taught that are fairly competent after years of practice. Bad footwork, horrible posture, small variety of moves, but at least on the music. Swing dancing for years mainly gave him terrible habits for ballroom. YMMV

 

Reiterating, teaching beginners to dance is not rocket science. Arthur Murray hires instructors off the street for their looks and charisma (sales ability) and then teaches them enough to stay one step ahead of their students.

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The Arthur Murray instructors off the street aren't trying to teach someone to compete on a television show nor do they expect their students to be able to dance an entire routine in one week.  I'm not sure we're talking apples to apples here.  And just because someone may be able to learn to dance a decent ballroom dance does not automatically mean they can choreograph a decent routine.  For me personally, as much as I love Allison, I would have preferred that DWTS hire an actual ballroom dancer for this job.  It's not like they're in short supply.  Time will tell whether she can do the job or not, but there was no particular reason that I can think of that would make her a better candidate for this job than an actual well-trained ballroom dancer.  If Allison has been seriously studying ballroom dance in the last few years, it's a well-kept secret because everything I could quickly find on her mentions contemporary and jazz with a bit of ballet and tap.  Nothing about ballroom except that she did one of the Ballroom With a Twist shows, which means she learned a few routines.

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One last thought on this subject... It seems that the younger dancers (especially Derek and Mark) don't make a big distinction between ballroom and other forms of dancing.  Derek has choreographed for ice dancers, Sonya Teyah (contemporary from SYTYCD) has choreographed for ballet companies (one that Chehon, male winner of SYTYCD Season 9 was in) and Mark Ballas was able to free himself from the traditional expectations of DWTS by choreographing a Cha-Cha for SYTYCD season 8.  That may not be what many views tune in to DWTS to see, but it seems to be the way dancing on TV is evolving. 

 

I'm certainly not an expert, and I wish I could remember in what interviews with what people I've heard this mentioned, but I feel like I've been hearing in a couple places that the dance world in general is trending towards more fusion/blending between styles. Personally, I love the creativity of it (DWTS only piqued my interest when they started doing more of it & I'm excited to see what Allison can do), though I get that it annoys the purists.

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I don't think of myself as a purist, but I watch DWTS in the hopes of seeing some good ballroom dancing.  I have SYTYCD for the rest of it.  I still hate that they have contemporary and jazz on the show - I don't think any of the pros are really great at choreographing those styles.  Derek is probably the best, and Maks did a wonderful job with Meryl, but in general, I find the contemporary and jazz on DWTS to be mostly not that good.  I miss the paso - I think Charlie was the only one who did one last season - and there were only a couple of tangos/Argentine tangos.  I don't think they all even did one of the waltzes.  The blending of the styles makes for a very uneven playing field for the celebs as well, which I think is unfair.  The judges are not consistent as to what they want - sometimes they will let it slide while other times a celeb loses points for not enough content.  And really how do you fairly compare a waltz that is a true waltz to a waltz that is mostly something else with a few waltz steps thrown in?  The audience voting is wildly skewed with those who want to see ballroom dancing perhaps not voting for someone who does a blended dance.  It's obvious the producers are trying to bring in a broader audience and are hoping that Allison will attract some people who wouldn't usually watch DWTS.  But I don't think they'll stay tuned in just to see her.  I feel bad for whoever her partner turns out to be as well.  Allison may be cross-trained, but she's competing against pros who are multiple champions in their discipline and who know how the show works.  That's a tall order.  Good luck to her and her partner.

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Imo sytycd started to lose it's luster when they moved more and more into Contemporary-fying  everything. I believe DWTS fans have to worry about that aspect that has been going on the last few seasons. 

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Just think of the wonderful people they've already used that fans would love to see back - Anna, Kym, Lacey, Chelsie, Ashley Del Grosso.

 

 

Yes, I'd love to see these wonderful people back on DWTS.  Most especially, Ashly Del Grosso Costa, last seen partnering Buzz Aldrin.

 

Ashly brings the joy to the dance floor, while Allison brings the angst to the floor.  Nothing against Allison, she does it well.  But I vastly prefer the joy to the angst, so I'd prefer Ashly be brought back.

 

But, at least we can see that Allison can dance in heels, from watching her AT with Derek.  She's at least got that one aspect of ballroom down.  I felt that Tyne always looked kind of awkward in her dancing on DWTS, and I put it down to her being used to dancing in bare feet all the time as a contemporary dancer.  

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If DWTS would just embrace the fact that their core audience skews older than they'd like, then maybe they'd stop trying so hard to turn this show into SYTYCD. I know they want the $$ from a younger audience but they're missing the target with what the viewers that are actually tuning in most want to see.

I'll definitely give Allison a chance. I don't want her to get a ringer over Emma but if she gets someone who can at least move decently we should be able to see how she is as a ballroom teacher.

Edited by Buggin
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Maybe I should say, I like Allison, but I tend to agree that there are many, many ballroom dancers that should get a shot first. Guess I read something along the lines of, how can she teach someone to ballroom dance? one too many times.

 

Wondering if Derek has a lot more pull on the show than we even suspect. Might be why Mark continues on the show and his co-choreographer is getting a shot instead of Sharna coming back.

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I really don't know why everything gets attached to Derek. I swear if Derek was half as powerful as people seem to think he is, he'd be running the universe. I don't know what Mark being on the show has to do with Derek - Mark has won the mirrorball trophy twice, his parents are legendary in the ballroom world and for all the cracks about him, he does have his fans. Mark's continued inclusion as a Pro is no more surprising than Tony, Cheryl, Karina, etc. all still being around, all of which have been on the show longer than him.

 

And as for Allison, I don't get all the surprise or it being thrown onto Derek when it's been clear for a few seasons now that DWTS and SYTYCD have started interweaving with each other. SYTYCD has been using Louis van Amstel for multiple seasons now for their ballroom dances, as well as Damian (though he was a former contestant) and Mark choreographed once as well. Derek has actually never been on the show. Many former SYTCYD ballroom contestants have found their way onto DWTS - Chelsie, Damian, Witney, Lindsey, Jenna, Lacey. And who has the show been using to choreograph every single one of the opening Pro numbers the last season - Mandy Moore, a woman most known for her contemporary work on SYTYCD. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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I think her biggest challenge will be living up to the hype if/when she has to choreograph a contemporary routine as I think viewers who know her will have extremely high expectations.  . 

 

If I might add, I think her biggest challenge will be living up to the hype when she has to choreograph a contemporary routine for a star with little or no dance experience.  Viewers who know of her are accustomed to seeing her dance with experienced professional dancers without the time pressures of a new dance every week.

 

truthaboutluv, on 19 Aug 2014 - 7:08 PM, said:

Many former SYTCYD ballroom contestants have found their way onto DWTS - Chelsie, Damian, Witney, Lindsey, Jenna, Lacey.

 

For those who don't know, Witney, Lindsey and Jenna are all Mark's students as is Tanisha from the current SYTYCD season. Tanisha danced with Lacey, Mark + Val in the "Toxic Duel" pro dance a few seasons ago.  So I would assume Mark has his own behind the scenes "pull on the show" besides his own fan base.  

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it's been clear for a few seasons now that DWTS and SYTYCD have started interweaving with each other.

 

 

That's true but up until now, DWTS has been using ballroom dancer contestants from SYTYCD as pros, and SYTYCD has been using DWTS pros to choreograph ballroom routines.  I have no problem with that.  My issue is that Allison is not a ballroom dancer, but she's been hired as a pro over a lot of other qualified ballroom dancers who, in my opinion, should have been given a shot.  DWTS is first and foremost about ballroom dance, and as long as there are qualified ballroom dancers to choose from, I just don't see any logic or desirability to hiring a contemporary dancer as a pro on this show.

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I just don't understand why they didn't put Allison in the troupe if they wanted to hire her so badly. She is a wonderful dancer and picks up the ballroom choreography (she has gotten to do) well, but there is a world of difference between being a good student and being a good teacher. How can she teach something she doesn't fully know herself? A lot of the contemporary done on DWTS has been unintentionally ugly, untechnical, and overly dramatic because the pros are not trained to teach it, so they and the stars just flail about with their flexed feet. Also, the judges don't know how to judge it because they too don't know what to look for aside from good acting.

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I, too, have loved Allison on SYTYCD since Season 2, but a point that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that, while she might have picked up a lot of ballroom in the past few years, I think there is a difference between learning technique and being a great ballroom follower (ladies' part), with being able to teach the man to (at least look like) he is leading.  I agree to some extent that it would be possible for her to teach frame, generally placing feet and moving hips, but all the business of getting a man to (at least look like he knows how to) initiate movement might be a bit trickier.  Even if she is great at backleading.

 

Still, I think she's a beautiful dancer and has shown a lot of promise as a choreographer.  I might tune in just to watch her dance (like I used to do with Karina).  In which case hiring her (if only for the purpose of stunt casting) will have worked to bring back viewers.  (I haven't watched regularly since Laila Ali's season.)

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How can she teach something she doesn't fully know herself? A lot of the contemporary done on DWTS has been unintentionally ugly, untechnical, and overly dramatic because the pros are not trained to teach it, so they and the stars just flail about with their flexed feet.

 

Since they seem committed to keeping contemporary in as a style - perhaps that's why - to get better contemporary. I miss the pasos too, but they seem to get the a lot of buzz off the big contemporarish numbers (Let it Go, Only Human, Max & Meryl's finale piece...) If I'm a producer it certainly seems to make sense as a strategic decision. 

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I really don't know why everything gets attached to Derek. I swear if Derek was half as powerful as people seem to think he is, he'd be running the universe. I don't know what Mark being on the show has to do with Derek - Mark has won the mirrorball trophy twice, his parents are legendary in the ballroom world and for all the cracks about him, he does have his fans. Mark's continued inclusion as a Pro is no more surprising than Tony, Cheryl, Karina, etc. all still being around, all of which have been on the show longer than him.

 

And as for Allison, I don't get all the surprise or it being thrown onto Derek when it's been clear for a few seasons now that DWTS and SYTYCD have started interweaving with each other. SYTYCD has been using Louis van Amstel for multiple seasons now for their ballroom dances, as well as Damian (though he was a former contestant) and Mark choreographed once as well. Derek has actually never been on the show. Many former SYTCYD ballroom contestants have found their way onto DWTS - Chelsie, Damian, Witney, Lindsey, Jenna, Lacey. And who has the show been using to choreograph every single one of the opening Pro numbers the last season - Mandy Moore, a woman most known for her contemporary work on SYTYCD. 

I may be having a senior's moment, but for the life of me I can't remember a SYTYCD (US) contestant named Damian who's stated dance style was ballroom.  Could someone help me out?  All I can come up with is Jonathan Platero who's "dance style" was Salsa and who has danced with the DWTS Troupe and recently choreographed for SYTYCD.  (The only other SYTYCD Damian that I remember is from the Australian version.)

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I may be having a senior's moment, but for the life of me I can't remember a SYTYCD (US) contestant named Damian who's stated dance style was ballroom.  Could someone help me out?  All I can come up with is Jonathan Platero who's "dance style" was Salsa and who has danced with the DWTS Troupe and recently choreographed for SYTYCD.  (The only other SYTYCD Damian that I remember is from the Australian version.)

 

That was a typo. I mean Dimitri, as in Dimitri Chaplin who competed in S2 of SYTYCD and later competed on DWTS. He came second with Mya the season Donny Osmond won.

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About Allison being angsty... I commented to my sister once about how it bummed me out that Allison only seems to get dark or angsty pieces as an All-star, because she's a goof and does light pieces well, too. But she does angst SO well, she's nearly the only all-star they use for those pieces.

If you want to see some non-angst work, look on YouTube for Allison and Ivan's routines from their season of SYTYCD. Their second A Tango is one of my all-time favorites, thanks to her.

I love Allison, but I'd also rather they get pros from the competitive ballroom world. I've heard she is cross-trained, at least. I hope she makes me more open to others not from the ballroom world, because Tyne sure didn't.

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My feelings exactly.  I love Allison's dancing and I remember her very well from Season 2 SYTYCD - she was extraordinary.  But I would much rather watch a competition ballroom professional be hired as a new pro. Additionally, I remember from SYTYCD that Allison did not have the type of personality that communicates well to an audience.  She was an amazing and talented dancer but was sent home earlier than expected.  DWTS requires that their professionals be able to dance, teach, AND have a compelling/magnetic personality.  Those pros that don't are sent home early and not asked back.  IMO, talent is not the only ingredient that is necessary to be a successful pro.

I'm not particularly worried about Allison as a pro on this show. She has been an All-Star and fan favorite on SYTYCD since S7 despite her Top 8 placing in S2. She really is beloved by that fandom and I don't see her having a problem connecting with this one either.  She will likely bring over some of her SYTYCD fanbase to this show as well just like previous alumni have done which is more than can be said for Tyne who most of the viewing audience probably didn't know prior to her being hired on the show. Allison has less of a hurdle to jump through in that regard since along with SYTYCD she has already appeared on this show a few times already. It's also notable that none of the ballroom kids that have come over from SYTYCD won on their season either. I think Lacey placed the highest at Top 4.

 

I know Allison had quite a bit of ballroom training since leaving her show and as much she's danced with Derek I'm sure she's picked up some things. She also teaches quite frequently. She is particularly great with kids so if she has the patience for that I'm sure she has the patience for even the most awful of celebrity dancers. That said, she is not a professional ballroom dancer so I agree with others that it might have been best to hire someone with more ballroom credentials. I have been lamenting the exclusion of my own favorite SYTYCD ballroom alumni not being on this show for years(Anya, Jeanette, Iveta). But since Allison is one of my all-time favorite contemporary dancers I admit I am less angry about it than I would be if they hired somebody I actually didn't like. Something tells me they won't miss an opportunity to have her choreograph a contemporary piece this season either. 

Edited by Turkish
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Let's wait and see what happens with Allison on DWTS. I don't understand the decision to hire a contemporary dancer on a ballroom show, but it's done and now we wait to see what she brings to the floor. I don't think the fact that she is well loved by viewers of SYTYCD means much. That show is not some ratings juggernaut for it to have any relevance here. She will have to prove herself and I hope she is researching like hell.

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..........There are so many really good and talented ballroom dancers who could do this - I don't want to see contemporary dancers masquerading as ballroom dancers.  Ugh.  Just think of the wonderful people they've already used that fans would love to see back - Anna, Kym, Lacey, Chelsie, Ashley Del Grosso.  They've got Jenna in the troupe who is a fabulous dancer - give her a chance as a pro.  There's Anya and Ashleigh and Iveta who were ballroom contestants on SYTYCD that might be able to be tapped as pros.  They don't need to get non-ballroom dancers to use for pros.  I just think that's both stupid and insulting. 

Totally agree.

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About Allison being angsty... I commented to my sister once about how it bummed me out that Allison only seems to get dark or angsty pieces as an All-star, because she's a goof and does light pieces well, too. But she does angst SO well, she's nearly the only all-star they use for those pieces.

I find the angsty/flaily criticism a little funny because:

(1) as an All Star on SYTYCD, she has to do the flaily choreography she is given so it's not like she has a choice to do a light-hearted Broadway number and she's just saying, "Ehhh, no thanks!"

(2) during her original season, I remember a lot of people online criticizing her for being too smiley (the judges never commented on it because every critique seemed to be Nigel saying, "Allison, you were lovely as always, but let's talk about Ivan.")

 

This is one of my all time favorite SYTYCD routines, but you can see how goofy Allison is during the intro package and how non-angsty she was during this contemporary dance. I thought she had a really beatific expression on her face:

 

I also really liked the West Coast swing routine she did:

 

I don't know how hardcore she trained in ballroom after SYTYCD but I remember seeing a video of her practicing a cha cha with Dmitry. Ha, love the internet! It's from 2007:

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I have some Friends who talked to Allison and I guess Allison has been taking lessens especially from Derek on and off for years but really went hard core early this year. DWTS has wanted her for a couple of seasons but she had other projects and felt she couldn't really spend time perfecting her ballroom. But she made it a priority this year. 

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Well It's only indirectly straight from Allison but I'm sure she'll mention it on the show &/or in one of the after show interviews. I only mentioned it because It reassured me. It seems that she has been training with DWTS in mind. I know Allison can dance like nobody's business and it was just what she can do with a partner that isn't fully a dancer and of course Ballroom Choreography that I was questioning.

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Love Allison, love the unique style of her dancing. I think she hits the last split second of the beat sometimes, makes her partners look like they are standing still. Especially Rudy.

 

But figure out tonight what's been bugging me about her dancing. Ballroom girls are trained to move their knees past each other with no obvious gap. Allison, as a dancer trained to turn out, is a little splayed at the knees sometimes. Hope that make sense, you can really see it in her dance with Keo and Artem.

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But figure out tonight what's been bugging me about her dancing. Ballroom girls are trained to move their knees past each other with no obvious gap. Allison, as a dancer trained to turn out, is a little splayed at the knees sometimes. Hope that make sense, you can really see it in her dance with Keo and Artem.

 

Ballroom dancers (Waltz, Foxtrot, Quickstep, V. Waltz, Tango) pass their legs between each other with no turnout, but Latin dancers (Rhumba, Cha-cha, Samba, Paso, Jive) do dance with turnout.  And indeed, the turnout/no-turnout problem is a really common one with ballet dancers when they first attempt Ballroom dances.

 

I think Allison's problem is twofold from what I can tell from the Jive.  Her legs are indeed somewhat wide for Jive.  Latin dances are danced on a single axis (like a balance beam), and she's dancing it more like a double axis dance (like on skis, which is what Ballroom dancers do so the legs can pass next to each other).  

 

The bigger problem is that I think she's contriving a lot of the motion rather than letting it happen from her core and partnership.  She's making it happen rather than letting it happen, and so it's coming across as flailing.  For example, she's throwing the Jive arms out there rather than letting it happen from the natural rotation of her back during the figures which is resulting in surprisingly awful airplane arms.

 

You see the problem I see with a dancer like Allison crash coursing is that she's plainly had good coaching from Derek, but just good coaching does not a partner dancer make.  It also takes a lot of hours of dancing with a lot of different people at a lot of different skill levels.  It's one thing to feel what it feels like to dance with a champion like Derek.  It's totally a different ballgame to dance with a beginner like Jonathan, and understand the what the common mistakes are and know how to help them learn to dance.

 

The best analogy I can make is it's like learning a foreign language.  It's one thing to learn to speak to your French teacher.  It's another to actually go to France and try to speak French to French people, let alone try to teach French to someone new to it.

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Maybe the show won't use Allison that much in the pro ballroom numbers.  In that way the ballroom routines can be performed like the "ballroom experts" want.  I thought she did a good job with Jonathan.  She does need to dial it down a bit.  She's not competing.

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Yeah I love Allison but I felt like I want to see her as the star. I know that's stupid since she's a dancer but she looked like a really good star out there instead of the professional Ballroom dancer. I still enjoyed watching her. 

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Maybe the show won't use Allison that much in the pro ballroom numbers.  In that way the ballroom routines can be performed like the "ballroom experts" want.  I thought she did a good job with Jonathan.  She does need to dial it down a bit.  She's not competing.

Hmmm.  They seem to love Mandy Moore (a contemporary choreographer) as their go to person to choreograph the Pro dances....

And Mandy Moore became a household name (sort of) on SYTYCD....

And she has worked A LOT with Allison...

 

You can see where I am going with this?  I think there is a snowball's chance in hell that Allison will NOT be used much in the pro ballroom (or latin) numbers. 

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Really, I just want to know if this means there is a higher chance of seeing Twitch show up on DWTS- as a guest dancer or whatever.  

 

I also think the producers went with someone that has a built-in fan base- and Allison's is fairly large.  It is entirely possible that some of the ballroom specialists we might know from SYTYCD might actually be competing or are contractually obligated elsewhere.  Don't Anya and Lacy both work on the DWTS's Vegas show?  This also might not be the type of show a lot of dancers don't want to work on.  Dancing and teaching are one thing, being on a tv competition is something else entirely.

 

So, my jury is out on Allison- I'll wait and see how the season progresses.  I don't know enough about ballroom to make really technical critiques of the pros and for the most part I enjoy her dancing.  

 

I will say I'd like to see Ryan DiLello as one of the pros though.  Love him to pieces.  

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Really, I just want to know if this means there is a higher chance of seeing Twitch show up on DWTS- as a guest dancer or whatever.  

 

I also think the producers went with someone that has a built-in fan base- and Allison's is fairly large.  It is entirely possible that some of the ballroom specialists we might know from SYTYCD might actually be competing or are contractually obligated elsewhere.  Don't Anya and Lacy both work on the DWTS's Vegas show?  This also might not be the type of show a lot of dancers don't want to work on.  Dancing and teaching are one thing, being on a tv competition is something else entirely.

 

So, my jury is out on Allison- I'll wait and see how the season progresses.  I don't know enough about ballroom to make really technical critiques of the pros and for the most part I enjoy her dancing.  

 

I will say I'd like to see Ryan DiLello as one of the pros though.  Love him to pieces.  

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Twitch in a pro dance.

The current season SYTYCD top 10 are getting ready for their USA tour. Of the top 20, there really were only 2 that I think could be ready for DWTS, Malene Ostergaard and Tanisha Belnap. But Malene went out in week 1 and Tanisha is on the tour. Malene's dancing was fantastic but she didn't get enough votes to stay. Tanisha is another of Mark's students and he's already got 3 students on DWTS as it is.

 

My question is, why only fish in the SYTYCD pond? I bet there are oodles of competition pros with the personality and teaching skills that would give their eye teeth to be on DWTS.  They can only compete for so long. A stint on DWTS would give their careers a boost like nothing else.

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My question is, why only fish in the SYTYCD pond? I bet there are oodles of competition pros with the personality and teaching skills that would give their eye teeth to be on DWTS.  They can only compete for so long. A stint on DWTS would give their careers a boost like nothing else.

 

Oh, I agree with the sentiment 100%.  I think it really has more to do with fanbase and people they know that can deal with TV, which really is a different beast than competition.  For this show- which has been on the decline for the past several years, pros that come in with a fanbase must seem like the good idea (from a produces standpoint).  People that can deal with tv, even better.

 

Keo is an excellent example- unknown, great dancer, but not the best at managing live response (based on the comments about his response about training Lolo).  Is that enough to bench him?  We will see. I mean Tristan is a great example of a no-name that was pretty universally loved by the fandom- but look at how they treated him.  

 

Again, as a regular viewer of the show- I would love to see more ballroom peeps get tapped.  However, I do understand why the producers might make these types of calls.  I would probably be more upset if they pulled all 3 from SYTYCD and all 3 were non-ballroom but it was a pretty decent mix, so I'll wait for the rest of the season to see how Allison plays out.  

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