S07.E07: Don't Mask, Don't Tell -- the Good, the Bad & the Cuddly -- Round 3

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

A brand-new group of five singers is introduced in the third and final round of the season; guest panelist Leslie Jordan.

 

[Lilac2000]

I thought Ken was very respectful. Listened to him blather and then quietly took his leave. Nick looked super uncomfortable, not his usual easygoing self. At least it's over!

[bobbyjoe]

I’ve been skipping this season for this very reason.  Just saw the clips and it looks even more nightmarish with that creepy jack-in-the-box outfit than I’d even imagined.  It’s going to be hard to shake the image of Nicole and Jenny happily dancing along with all this.  I have a new respect for Ken, though: the irony here is that this time the show’s resident clown is the voice of sanity.

ETA- I just saw that apparently one of the judge’s guesses for Space Bunny was Buju Banton?  Good god.  Let’s hope not.  Pretty much the only way for the show to go lower than it did tonight would be for them to bring on a performer infamous for singing about killing gay people.  Even thinking about that makes me feel sick— was that supposed to be a “fun” guess?  What is wrong with this show?

Edited April 21, 2022 by bobbyjoe

[rr2911]

I thought Ken was very immature and disrespectful.  So, Ken doesn't like Rudy Giuliani huh?  He did one thing right and was to keep his mouth shut!  He should've handled this like an adult and just stood there UNTIL THE SHOW WAS OVER!  I thought Mr. Giuliani showed courage coming out in a show he knew he might receive an unwelcome response.  I've lost a lot of respect for Ken and if he's going to pout like a little whiny kid, then the show should look elsewhere and move on from Ken.  I applaud Jenny and Nicole for being respectful.  I read Thicke also left the stage but returned.  No comment on Thicke.

[MsTree]

7 minutes ago, rr2911 said:

I thought Ken was very immature and disrespectful.  So, Ken doesn't like Rudy Giuliani huh?  He did one thing right and was to keep his mouth shut!  He should've handled this like an adult and just stood there UNTIL THE SHOW WAS OVER!  I thought Mr. Giuliani showed courage coming out in a show he knew he might receive an unwelcome response.  I've lost a lot of respect for Ken and if he's going to pout like a little whiny kid, then the show should look elsewhere and move on from Ken.  I applaud Jenny and Nicole for being respectful.  I read Thicke also left the stage but returned.  No comment on Thicke.

I couldn't agree more! Ken with his "I'm done". Done with what? That wasn't a political rally, you whiny little idiot. 

[BK1978]

What I find funny is Ken doesn't have a problem working with Nick who has said some very racist and anti-Semitic things in the past but he's triggered by Rudy Giuliani.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Preemptive reminder that political discussion is not welcome in this forum.

[Rickster]

One could speculate, if events happened the way they were shown, why did they need to show Ken walking off at all? It could have been easily edited out since it was right at the very end. I guess just to make people  tune in next week for the supposed aftermath?

[pnina]

I saw an article previous to the airing of this show that had a picture of Giuliani's costume so I knew what was coming.  The unmasking and subsequent "banter" after it was very weird.  Sort of felt as if the life ha been sucked out of the show.  Seems people in the audience and judges didn't know quite how to handle it.  I'm just going to say I don't really care for Giuliani but I do admire him for appearing on the show.  It took some courage to appear on the show, especially since he can't sing or carry a tune in a bag.  

[vibeology]

I don't think it takes courage for an attention hog to appear on TV, especially when he also got paid. Giuliani is not someone I want to see on an entertainment show. I'd be happy to keep all politicians off of the show of any stripe. 

The rest of the show was great fun so it was extra sucky to have the air sucked out of the room with that reveal. 

I loved Price Toad, Cobra and Space Bunny and am already dreading the final double elimination. I haven't figured out Cobra at all. Or Baby Mammoth. I had no idea what to do with that performance.

I think Price Toad is

Spoiler

Cheyenne Jackson. That's not a voice I knew I recognized but as soon as he started singing, I put it together. The big diamond is a rock for 30 Rock. The 80s aesthetic is a shout out to Xanadu. The $20.06 is a reference to his 2006 film United 93 which he won a critics award for.  

And I'm nearly 100% sure Space bunny is

Spoiler

Shaggy. The shaggy dog and the voice are what pushed me that way. I don't think he has the best voice but that was a perfect song selection and it was fun.

 

[Rickster]

2 hours ago, pnina said:

 Seems people in the audience and judges didn't know quite how to handle it.  

I know the previous episode had a disclaimer at the end that at least some audience shots were from prior seasons. So what FOX chooses to show is not necessarily reality, at least in regard to the audience.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Rickster

[MrsEVH]

9 hours ago, rr2911 said:

I thought Ken was very immature and disrespectful.  So, Ken doesn't like Rudy Giuliani huh?  He did one thing right and was to keep his mouth shut!  He should've handled this like an adult and just stood there UNTIL THE SHOW WAS OVER!  I thought Mr. Giuliani showed courage coming out in a show he knew he might receive an unwelcome response.  I've lost a lot of respect for Ken and if he's going to pout like a little whiny kid, then the show should look elsewhere and move on from Ken.  I applaud Jenny and Nicole for being respectful.  I read Thicke also left the stage but returned.  No comment on Thicke.

I agree. The bogus news stories a few months ago made it sound like both of them walked off right after the reveal which they didn't. Maybe they re- shot the ending to make it look more PC. If both walked off right away that probably would've started a big controversy and lost viewers. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by MrsEVH

[Rickster]

27 minutes ago, MrsEVH said:

I agree. The bogus news stories a few months ago made it sound like both of them walked off right after the reveal which they didn't. Maybe they re- shot the ending to make it look more PC. If both walked off right away that probably would've started a big controversy and lost viewers. 

I sort of suspected they reshot the ending, too. It seemed odd for Ken to wait to walk off. I could see where he immediately walked off, Robin perhaps left to persuade him to come back, and they reshot the judges showing Ken with his arms folded.

[milkyaqua]

I'm pretty sure I read that Robin did walk off to check on Ken.

I'd read what happened and figured as soon as Jack in the Box started singing it was Guiliani.  I actually don't appreciate the show rejiggering and manipulating like this because reports said he was the first voted off of the season but of course to court anticipation they had to edit to make it seem he was in the last group.

As for Ken, yeah, there were probably better ways to handle it considering Nick and most of that panel have done/said things that weren't exactly all without controversy.  I do agree with those that would prefer shows like this keep political folks off of them because it's just a potential lightning rod which seriously is all these shows are looking for.

Up to that point, I did enjoy the performances except for Jack in the Box because that wasn't a good performance regardless of who was doing the performance.

[realdancemom]

I didn't see Ken walk off because I don't listen to the bad singers singing again.  So I thought they re-filmed the ending since I read that both Robin and Ken walked off.  Rudy was the worst singer in the group so I would have wanted him to leave no matter who he was.  I would have preferred if he and other controversial figures weren't on the show but that's not what reality TV shows do so that's not going to change. 

This season is weak.  For each group, there are only two good singers.  I like the seasons where most of the singers are good or decent.

[Josh371982]

11 hours ago, rr2911 said:

I thought Ken was very immature and disrespectful.  So, Ken doesn't like Rudy Giuliani huh?  He did one thing right and was to keep his mouth shut!  He should've handled this like an adult and just stood there UNTIL THE SHOW WAS OVER!  I thought Mr. Giuliani showed courage coming out in a show he knew he might receive an unwelcome response.  I've lost a lot of respect for Ken and if he's going to pout like a little whiny kid, then the show should look elsewhere and move on from Ken.  I applaud Jenny and Nicole for being respectful.  I read Thicke also left the stage but returned.  No comment on Thicke.

I read that he left to check on Ken then returned 

[blackwing]

17 hours ago, Lilac2000 said:

I thought Ken was very respectful. Listened to him blather and then quietly took his leave. Nick looked super uncomfortable, not his usual easygoing self. At least it's over!

 

11 hours ago, rr2911 said:

I thought Ken was very immature and disrespectful.  So, Ken doesn't like Rudy Giuliani huh?  He did one thing right and was to keep his mouth shut!  He should've handled this like an adult and just stood there UNTIL THE SHOW WAS OVER!  I thought Mr. Giuliani showed courage coming out in a show he knew he might receive an unwelcome response.  I've lost a lot of respect for Ken and if he's going to pout like a little whiny kid, then the show should look elsewhere and move on from Ken.  I applaud Jenny and Nicole for being respectful.  I read Thicke also left the stage but returned.  No comment on Thicke.

 

11 hours ago, MsTree said:

I couldn't agree more! Ken with his "I'm done". Done with what? That wasn't a political rally, you whiny little idiot. 

I get that some people, including obviously Ken, don't like Giuliani.  I think it was obvious that Nick doesn't like him, but at least he was mature and asked "knowing that you are controversial, what made you want to do this show".  Yet Ken sits there with his arms crossed and his lips pursed and his stinkeye.

Get over yourself Ken.  A lot of people don't like you either, and they don't pout and walk out.

I too don't understand why they couldn't have just edited out Ken at the end.  Why bother to show him walking out?  I hope the show just moves on and doesn't address the events or waste anymore time talking to Ken about why he walked out.  Maybe Ken can quit the show.  Bring on Joel McHale full time please.

I did notice that the panelists are no longer socially distanced from each other, I think last week they still were but this week they are back to the original pre-COVID arrangement which was nice to see.  If the audience members aren't wearing masks or distanced, it was odd to see the panelists still seated so far apart from each other.

[ketchuplover]

16 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

I’ve been skipping this season for this very reason.  Just saw the clips and it looks even more nightmarish with that creepy jack-in-the-box outfit than I’d even imagined.  It’s going to be hard to shake the image of Nicole and Jenny happily dancing along with all this.  I have a new respect for Ken, though: the irony here is that this time the show’s resident clown is the voice of sanity.

ETA- I just saw that apparently one of the judge’s guesses for Space Bunny was Buju Banton?  Good god.  Let’s hope not.  Pretty much the only way for the show to go lower than it did tonight would be for them to bring on a performer infamous for singing about killing gay people.  Even thinking about that makes me feel sick— was that supposed to be a “fun” guess?  What is wrong with this show?

According to wikipedia he has changed his tune

[LakeGal]

Their casting stunt didn't work.  I read this was the lowest rated episode of MS.  

[Phishbulb]

11 hours ago, Rickster said:

One could speculate, if events happened the way they were shown, why did they need to show Ken walking off at all? It could have been easily edited out since it was right at the very end. I guess just to make people  tune in next week for the supposed aftermath?

I really don't know why they didn't do this. It would've made the end of the show a lot less awkward and uncomfortable. 
This way, it just comes off like the producers of the show saying "Yeah, we'll do anything for ratings, even if it upsets one of our judges!" 

[Toonces464]

I'll keep my comments on Ken to myself but if the show doesn't want political blowback then it shouldn't cast anyone associated with politics. Simple. One would think these shows would have learned from DWTS, which has never recovered from their political casting.

[BoogieBurns]

5 hours ago, milkyaqua said:

As for Ken, yeah, there were probably better ways to handle it considering Nick and most of that panel have done/said things that weren't exactly all without controversy.

Ken apparently took it personally that Rudy was openly against the covid vaccine. It seems either Jenny got vaccinated from covid (to stay on the show) or he can overlook it with her. But it wasn't technically political. He's just a doctor that was pissed one of the people against masking and vaxxing was given a chance to be on this show. (Again, Jenny may have evolved on vaccines, I have no idea.)
 

[MsTree]

11 hours ago, blackwing said:

Get over yourself Ken.  A lot of people don't like you either, and they don't pout and walk out.

I too don't understand why they couldn't have just edited out Ken at the end.  Why bother to show him walking out?  I hope the show just moves on and doesn't address the events or waste anymore time talking to Ken about why he walked out.  Maybe Ken can quit the show.  Bring on Joel McHale full time please.

Totally agree...that's Ken's job. He gets paid a lot of money to sit there and act like a jerk. Not many of us can walk off OUR job if there was someone in the room we didn't like.

I WISH Ken would quit/leave and be replaced with Joel McHale. At least Joel has a personality...and probably would have made a joke of the situation instead of pouting.

[blackwing]

11 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

And not just someone political, like they did with Palin, where this is someone who’s been off the radar for awhile.  This is someone who currently is in the middle of all these incredibly divisive controversies.  Its not like the producers missed that, unless they’ve been living on the moon.  

They decided to deliberately stir up needless controversy for the show, and from the looks of things its not played out very well for them.  I think most people just want to watch a fun singing competition, not another offshoot of the Fox political propaganda machine.

Sorry, but I fail to see any difference between Giuliani and many of the other contestants the show has had on in the past.  These people are here to be on a singing competition.  They're not there to promote their personal and political views.  They are there to have some fun.  Plenty of contestants in the past have had controversy in their lives - Antonio Brown, Ninja, Bow Wow, Lil Wayne, Sarah Palin, Mickey Rourke, Caitlyn Jenner, Logan Paul, Bobby Brown, etc.  Caitlyn Jenner killed someone with her car.  Logan Paul took video of bodies hanging in a Japanese forest.

Where was the outrage from the panelists about all of these people?  Personally, I loathe Logan Paul.  If I were a panelist for that season, I wouldn't have enjoyed him being on the show.  But if I'm there getting paid to do a job, I'm going to do the job.  I don't just walk out when I don't like somebody.

Above all... where is the outrage from Ken about Nick Cannon (4 kids by 3 different women all in the same year, multiple racist/ethnist/sexist comments)?  Where is the outrage from Ken about Robin Thicke and his controversies (plagiarism, groping Emily Ratajowski)?

Giuliani was there for the reasons he said he was there.  He wanted to make his granddaughter happy.  He didn't promote his political views.  The show didn't promote his political views.  There was absolutely no mention at all about his politics.

The media reported "two judges walked off the set" and THAT is what has created all the controversy and the hype.  If Ken and Robin had stayed in their seats and done what they were paid to do, then this would not have been a big deal.  I'm sure they probably didn't like Sarah Palin.  I'm sure lots of people in the audience didn't like Sarah Palin.  But nobody made a stink about it and there was no so-called "controversy".

Suck it, Ken.  I've permanently deleted "I Can See Your Voice" from my DVR and will not watch any show that he hosts in the future.  

I'm wondering if the show is going to survive.  I can see that there will be 1) people that don't want to watch anymore because the show let Giuliani on, and 2) people that don't want to watch anymore because of crybaby Ken Jeong.

[SnideAsides]

I mean, sure, Rudy wasn't explicitly there to pimp his views, but it's part of the package with him at this point, and Ken was well within his right to walk out whether people on the internet like it or not. Had Rudy just been the former mayor of NYC who randomly popped up on here for grandkid-related reasons after being out of the spotlight for a decade, I don't think many people would have raised an eyebrow. But that's not what the context here is, and we all know it. And "well, this show has been casting dickheads for a while, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯!" doesn't excuse them for this latest particular horrific casting choice any more than it excused them from any of the others you mention.

The thing here is... like, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing for them to raid the world of politics for people. Like, they're really not any less "public figure" notable than the D-tier reality fodder we've been getting the last couple of seasons; it's just that the sweet spot between "not famous enough to justify" and "so infamous it's distracting" is a LOT harder to hit with any reliability, and in this case they clearly missed it spectacularly. That's not to say it's impossible (Masked Singer UK had one of Tony Blair's Cabinet ministers a couple of years ago, which seems about right?), just that it's very difficult to find the right balance of all the competing factors, and I don't know that I'd trust any American show to accomplish it successfully.

[The Crazed Spruce]

If Ken had walked out during the reveal, or had made more of a show of it, I might have held it against him. Whether I agree with him or not.

But he kept his opinion to himself during the whole post-reveal bit, waited for the end of it, then took off his mic and walked away. As bad a scene as it could've been, that was almost dignified.

[MsTree]

Sorry, but walking off ANY set when you're being paid to sit through to the end is just unprofessional and extremely immature.

[HyeChaps]

He was on the Bad Team, sang "Bad to the Bone", and sang it badly.

[SnideAsides]

15 hours ago, MsTree said:

Sorry, but walking off ANY set when you're being paid to sit through to the end is just unprofessional and extremely immature.

I mean, I guess the general point we're all litigating here is "should respect automatically be given, or should it be earned?" I'd argue that there's a general presumption of respect, sure, but there's also people in this world who clearly have forfeited their right to respect - murderers, pedophiles, the lesser Kardashians, et cetera. I don't know that, given his general buffoonery in recent years and his specific history in relation to a current issue that he as a medical doctor would CERTAINLY have strong opinions on, Rudy isn't in that second group for Ken.

I think Ken certainly tried to give him the benefit of the doubt; that's why he sat through the explanation of why he did the show. But once it got to an encore performance that really serves no purpose but to give celebrities some PR for doing the show, Ken decided he just couldn't any more. I respect Ken for that decision, just as I respect Nick for clearly pressing on despite his own personal objections, just as I respect Nicole for being able to put her own baggage aside for three minutes.

Ultimately, the fact that Ken gets paid to be here is irrelevant. Sure, it's true that he earns more than most. But even in minimum wage retail, sometimes the customer is right, and sometimes the customer is an irredeemable asshole who needs to Find Out™. If Ken decided the best way he could de-escalate the situation was to go into the hallway outside the studio for a bit, I'm not going to fault him for that.

[Ananayel]

I said in another post somewhere that I saw Ken in my workplace, and overheard him speaking with someone about the vaccine protocols the show had been doing, how hard they all worked to keep from getting themselves, the crew, the contestants, and whatever audience they had in-person safe. And they succeeded. This must have been an intolerable slap in the face, especially since he has been on multiple talk shows trying to explain the situation, what the vaccines do, and how we can all help end this. He didn't storm out immediately, once Nick's talking is over and the contestant starts singing, his job is over. They could have edited footage of him dancing or clapping to a different singer in that spot, and probably would have, if it hadn't been leaked that he "stormed " off.  He didn't storm, he was done and walked away. And I don't know for sure, but I do think Jenny has backed off from the worst anti-vax stuff, to the point where she herself is vaxed, especially if that was a requirement for keeping this job. 

[blackwing]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:40 PM, The Crazed Spruce said:

If Ken had walked out during the reveal, or had made more of a show of it, I might have held it against him. Whether I agree with him or not.

But he kept his opinion to himself during the whole post-reveal bit, waited for the end of it, then took off his mic and walked away. As bad a scene as it could've been, that was almost dignified.

But he didn’t wait until the end of it.  The entire reveal process includes the eliminated singer performing one more time unmasked.  In seven seasons of the show, we have never seen a panelist take their mike off and say “sorry but I really gotta pee, we’re done, right” and then a scene of them leaving the episode prematurely.  Ken wanted to make a show of him leaving.  He wanted Giuliani to see him getting up and leaving.  It was not mature or respectful or dignified.  

20 hours ago, SnideAsides said:

I mean, I guess the general point we're all litigating here is "should respect automatically be given, or should it be earned?" I'd argue that there's a general presumption of respect, sure, but there's also people in this world who clearly have forfeited their right to respect - murderers, pedophiles, the lesser Kardashians, et cetera. I don't know that, given his general buffoonery in recent years and his specific history in relation to a current issue that he as a medical doctor would CERTAINLY have strong opinions on, Rudy isn't in that second group for Ken.

I think Ken certainly tried to give him the benefit of the doubt; that's why he sat through the explanation of why he did the show. But once it got to an encore performance that really serves no purpose but to give celebrities some PR for doing the show, Ken decided he just couldn't any more. I respect Ken for that decision, just as I respect Nick for clearly pressing on despite his own personal objections, just as I respect Nicole for being able to put her own baggage aside for three minutes.

Ultimately, the fact that Ken gets paid to be here is irrelevant. Sure, it's true that he earns more than most. But even in minimum wage retail, sometimes the customer is right, and sometimes the customer is an irredeemable asshole who needs to Find Out™. If Ken decided the best way he could de-escalate the situation was to go into the hallway outside the studio for a bit, I'm not going to fault him for that.

If the contestants are on the show, it’s because the show producers wanted them on there.  Ken is on the show because the producers want him on the show.  And I do think that the fact that he is getting paid is extremely relevant.  He was hired to do a job.  Part of the job is listening to the contestants.  It’s not walking out while the show is taping.

By walking out, Ken is giving the show producers the finger by saying he disagrees with their choices and the way they run the show.  They should fire him. 
 

This shouldn’t be about politics.  It’s about getting paid to do a job, and refusing to do the job.  What about the baker who refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple?  Was that right?  For people who support Ken’s right to express his opinion, I hope you also supported this baker for standing up for his beliefs. 
 

What about a teacher who is employed by a school district to teach students?  What if he finds out that Giuliani’s granddaughter is in his class and he goes to the principal and says “I refuse to teach this girl because I don’t like her grandfather”.  I’m thinking he’d possibly be fired.

[marketdoctor]

I don't know how much of The Walkout was staged, reshot, etc.

Interesting that at least two of the people who went first in their group have been on Saturday Night Live.

 

 

[SnideAsides]

15 hours ago, blackwing said:

But he didn’t wait until the end of it.  The entire reveal process includes the eliminated singer performing one more time unmasked.  In seven seasons of the show, we have never seen a panelist take their mike off and say “sorry but I really gotta pee, we’re done, right” and then a scene of them leaving the episode prematurely.  Ken wanted to make a show of him leaving.  He wanted Giuliani to see him getting up and leaving.  It was not mature or respectful or dignified.  

If the contestants are on the show, it’s because the show producers wanted them on there.  Ken is on the show because the producers want him on the show.  And I do think that the fact that he is getting paid is extremely relevant.  He was hired to do a job.  Part of the job is listening to the contestants.  It’s not walking out while the show is taping.

By walking out, Ken is giving the show producers the finger by saying he disagrees with their choices and the way they run the show.  They should fire him. 
 

This shouldn’t be about politics.  It’s about getting paid to do a job, and refusing to do the job.  What about the baker who refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple?  Was that right?  For people who support Ken’s right to express his opinion, I hope you also supported this baker for standing up for his beliefs. 
 

What about a teacher who is employed by a school district to teach students?  What if he finds out that Giuliani’s granddaughter is in his class and he goes to the principal and says “I refuse to teach this girl because I don’t like her grandfather”.  I’m thinking he’d possibly be fired.

Taking this Gish Gallop one point at a time:

In seven seasons, we've never had a Rudy Giuliani on the show before. This goes back to the argument about whether respect is automatic - there was no chance any of them were going to "but I really need to pee!" to get away from a Gladys Knight or a Tom Bergeron. Rudy, because of his history, is a different kettle of fish.

Ken is an actor. Making a show is quite literally his job.

The reasons producers would want a contestant on the show (talent, controversy, big names) are different from the reasons producers would want a judge on the show (improv ability, pop culture awareness, regular availability). To say that the reasons they hired Ken seven seasons ago are identical to the reasons they got Rudy for this season is incredibly disingenuous.

Ken's job on this show is not "sit idly by while things happen around you", it's "make the best and most interesting television program you can". I would argue he did exactly that by leaving; we're certainly spending more time talking about it than many past episodes.

Television is a collaborative medium. While producers are responsible for the final decision making, there is not one person who gets to be all "this is what we're doing, if you don't like it, you leave". The closest is the network censors, who wouldn't give a flying fuck about this. Also producers tend not to be whiny babies; in this case, they probably congratulated themselves for making a water-cooler moment rather than worrying about being disrespected.

I agree that this shouldn't be about politics. I'm a little curious why you'd instantly follow that up by mentioning a case that wound up being very politically loaded, buuuut in a non-political sense there's a principle in comedy that jokes work when you "punch up" at targets with power and don't work when you "punch down" at people without. It's why jokes about colonialism work better when told by people who aren't British or French, for example, or why that scene from Downfall got turned into a meme instead of any scene from Schindler's List. In your analogy, one group has historically borne the brunt of much of the worst of humanity, while the other really hasn't faced that much since they stopped using the Colosseum for one of its original purposes; here, the dynamic is the other way around, with someone powerful (Rudy; YMMV but that's how the show treated him) receiving criticism from someone (Ken) who's usually there to be The Dumb One. It's a false equivalency.

I don't doubt that teachers refusing to teach would face ramifications. There are, however, some jobs where you are ethically bound to help wherever you can regardless of the people you deal with - firefighter, paramedic, police officer, veterinarian, librarian, and so forth - and while "teacher" is one of those jobs, "not quite a judge on something that's not quite a talent show" isn't one of them.

Edited April 25, 2022 by SnideAsides