The Ultimatum: Marry Or Move On

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 4/16/2022 at 12:49 AM, LeDucDiableBleu said:

April does come off poorly but Jake looks like sour grapes to me, imo. If he was so in love with April, why did he fall for Rae and go so hard on the show? Why didn't he propose at the table like the other guys or at the end like Randall? Colby was clearly madly in love with Madlyn and he went through all the show shit, while Madlyn literally said that she didn't want to marry Colby, and after all was said and done he never wanted anyone else but Madlyn. And, if April is so bad, why isn't he happy to be free of her and dodged the bullet?

I'm applying some of my past experiences here, but I think Jake is competitive and immature. He wanted to "win" in their relationship and didn't want to give April the ultimate thing she wanted or else April would be the winner. He has this vibe like he wants to tear apart her character and punish her. "Everyone look how bad April is!" kind of deal. Even though she's a mess and annoying and the most high maintenance person I've ever seen in my life, I think she deserves to be with a guy who actually likes her. I'm probably reading too much into it but that's how I felt.

I'll choose to take Jake largely at face value from what he has said on the show and in the interview linked above. 

Through a likely combo of:

• being young in general (he's only like 24, so he hasn't got a lot of life experience)
• having relatively little experience with serious relationships (between being with April for 2 years and being in the Marine Corps, I tend to doubt he has had another in-person meaningful relationship of more than a couple months where marriage was seriously considered)
• having a relatively passive personality
• inertia/social programming (many of us are so programmed to thing dating->marriage->kids->happily ever after)
• April having a dominating personality
• April being hot/good in bed 
• possible childhood issues (perhaps unfairly, I have the sense that his dad

he stayed longer than he probably should have. According to the interview linked above, he had been planning to take her on a cruise where he was going to propose. He had already given her a car and was working on picking out a house for them. The cruise conflicted with the show so he cancelled it. 

It took being away from April and with someone who was interested in what he wanted and who didn't bulldoze him to realize how obnoxious she was and how she was all about what April wanted and much less about what they wanted mutually or what Jake wanted or needed.

I don't think it's so clear that Colby was so in love with Madelyn. If he was, how come he was chatting up these women? Why was he saying he was in an open relationship? How come he may or may not have been fooling around with April? 

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

So funny to read all the negative comments about Colby.  It's not like I like Colby, but Madelyn drove me crazy throughout the entire show.  She was awful.  That episode where she got so drunk.  And she was so nasty to everyone.  It's okay if you don't like April but why do you have to be so outright disrespectful?    Alexis was particularly nasty to April too with trying to goad Rae into saying she should be with Jake.  I don't recall April disrespecting any of the women.

To me the most psychotic personality on the show was Nate.  LOL.  

Alexis trying to bully Colby into being attracted to her was so crazy!  It's funny from the outside but when you realize it's real life, like wow.  

The interview from Madelyn is really illuminating.  So none of the couples actually issued an ultimatum and half were recruited.  I'm not surprised.  Until the very last episode I heard nothing about Colby concerning why he actually liked Madelyn besides her looks - he even admitted he fell in love at first sight.  Secondly, why would Madelyn turn around on her so-called beliefs so fast and accept the proposal ?  Maybe because she always wanted to get married from the beginning.  What a silly charade this all was.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[NDW5332]

On 4/9/2022 at 5:26 PM, Toodleoo said:

Madlyn seemed high as hell during her first fight with Randall. She reminds me of a B-list actress but I can’t think of her name.

Abby Elliot?

[Ms Blue Jay]

Sometimes Madlyn looked to me like Jodie Sweetin, sometimes Amber Heard,

[Andromeda]

Nearly done watching this.

Just have to vent about Alexis. I can't stand her. She couldn't accept that Colby didn't find her attractive (neither did my husband, who thought she looked at least 10 years older than she states), and she thought she was similar to Madelyn, who looks natural compared to that weird fake overly made-up horse face she has. Then she goes after Colby because he's "evil" -- right after she would have picked him.

Then at her at her bachelorette party, she sticks her nose into the Jake/April/Rae situation with all of them sitting right there. I would have walked out, too. 

She's also materialistic as hell. Her husband has to make more than she does?! What if he's a social worker or firefighter or something noble but paid less well? Yuck, hate her.

Madelyn is a MEAN drunk. That girls' night out proved it. Couldn't keep her trap shut. I really don't like her either, Ms Blue Jay, and Colby strikes me as your typical 20-something guy, not a stone-cold sociopath (despite what Alexis tells herself).

Why do I not like most of these people? I actually like April, because she's cheerful, but she really does talk too much!

I do love Madelyn's pups, though. I have two very much like hers.

Overall, these people over-analyze everything. What ever happened to falling in love and getting married and then growing from there? Some of them act like everything has to be perfect before you get married (career, finances, partner behavior, baby on the way or immediately after.) Those things come as the marriage progresses.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Andromeda

[topanga]

On 4/19/2022 at 4:22 PM, Andromeda said:

Why do I not like most of these people? I actually like April, because she's cheerful, but she really does talk too much!

I do love Madelyn's pups, though. I have two very much like hers.

Overall, these people over-analyze everything. What ever happened to falling in love and getting married and then growing from there? Some of them act like everything has to be perfect before you get married (career, finances, partner behavior, baby on the way or immediately after.) Those things come as the marriage progresses

My sentiments exactly. Most of the people on this show ware very unlikable. I did like Randall the best out of everyone. He was the least toxic of all of the partners. He and Shanique seemed to have matured since the show aired. 

I hope Jake is OK. He seemed very sad at the reunion. I know he was exited about dating Rae, but then she was back with Zay for a while, and now she has a girlfriend. I know he’s taking a break from dating, but I hope he’s OK otherwise. In the BuzzFeed article, he mentioned that he has anxiety issues

And what about Koa, April’s dog? That dog loved Jake to pieces. Poor thing.

And this seems like an unpopular opinion, but I don’t like Rae. She is very selfish and self-centered, IMO. I know that Zay is no prince, but from the very first episode, we learned that her lack of communication with Zay was an issue with their relationship. But it never seem like something she tried to work or even wanted to work on. And everyone except Zay gave her a pass. Maybe that was a sign they weren’t compatible, but Vanessa and the rest of the cast at the reunion treated like it was Zay’s problem that Rae didn’t communicate with him. 

I wish Zay would find a good therapist. He has a lot of abandonment issues and memories of childhood trauma that he needs to heal from. And he probably needs to heal from this tv experience. 

I still can’t believe that Madlyn married Colby.  After all of these gaslighting and emotional manipulation, she married him anyway. I hope they’re happy. 
 

On 4/12/2022 at 3:11 PM, zenithwit said:

I kinda wished they had a different system for creating the new pairings rather than the awkward dinner conversation.  It wouldn't have to be complicated.  Maybe something like each person rank the remaining women/men (i.e. everyone except their real-life partner).  Then if two people rank each other first, they would obviously be paired up and so on.

I think this would prevent some of the early engagements, at least initially.  Plus it would be good drama to see someone like Lauren get her first pick while Nate gets his last pick (which probably would be Alexis lol).

Yeah, that was weird. I had no idea how that process was supposed to work. I don’t think the cast did either. Hopefully, they’ll iron that out for season two.

[yourdreamer]

When Rae was yelling at Zay during the reunion, and she kept yelling that it was her turn and don’t quiet me down, I thought that was overly aggressive by Rae. I guess I don’t really know their relationship, but it seemed to me like Zay was being reasonable and wasn’t yelling. 

[sainte-chapelle]

On 4/16/2022 at 1:49 AM, LeDucDiableBleu said:

April does come off poorly but Jake looks like sour grapes to me, imo. If he was so in love with April, why did he fall for Rae and go so hard on the show? Why didn't he propose at the table like the other guys or at the end like Randall? Colby was clearly madly in love with Madlyn and he went through all the show shit, while Madlyn literally said that she didn't want to marry Colby, and after all was said and done he never wanted anyone else but Madlyn. And, if April is so bad, why isn't he happy to be free of her and dodged the bullet?

I'm applying some of my past experiences here, but I think Jake is competitive and immature. He wanted to "win" in their relationship and didn't want to give April the ultimate thing she wanted or else April would be the winner. He has this vibe like he wants to tear apart her character and punish her. "Everyone look how bad April is!" kind of deal. Even though she's a mess and annoying and the most high maintenance person I've ever seen in my life, I think she deserves to be with a guy who actually likes her. I'm probably reading too much into it but that's how I felt.

I agree with your comments about Jake.  Unpopular opinion but I think he has a bit of a passive-aggressive mean streak and wants to shit on April now that Rae doesn't want to be with him. April was vapid, selfish and annoying but didn't strike me as mean. I wish her the best in her new relationship. Why was he so concerned about April texting men when he was having a full blown emotional affair with Rae? I’m glad he is taking a break, hopefully he can figure himself out.

Also, why did Rae jump back into a relationship with her Ex.  That made no sense to me. Also can we please talk about her assaulting Zay by punching him?  Imagine if it were the other way around and he had punched her?  No one acknowledged this...at all. Rae isn't the sunshine and rainbows girl she portrayed on TV. I think she has some issues. She bounced between 3 people in a 6 month period, that is not good.  She needs to be single and sort herself out.

When Colby talking about him "not deserving" Madelyn yet blaming her for everything is emotional manipulation 101. He wanted to break her like a prize mare and it looks like he got his wish.  He wanted to start a family stat so she couldn't change her mind and get a quicky divorce.  This is also the reason why he sprung the quick marriage on her.  It wasn't romantic, it was to ensure she would not back out. Madelyn is in for a world of hurt. Madelyn is also a very mean drunk, she just seemed so unhappy and relished in stirring the pot because she wants everyone to be as miserable as she is.  Good luck.

The couple arguing about whether or not to have kids are doomed. I don't buy that she changed her mind at all, she will do it to please him and wind up miserable.  There is NOTHING wrong with not wanting to be a mother.

All these people are a hot mess and should not be getting married. I got married in my 30s because my 23 year old self was messy too lol.

Edited April 23, 2022 by sainte-chapelle

[Racj82]

On 4/14/2022 at 6:08 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

It seems like Shanique and Zay "got physical" but does that mean that they just did the making out we saw on camera, scored multiple home runs or what? I think someone upthread said something about Colby and April hooking up, but did that happen? Jake and April apparently were sleeping together when they got back together, but what about the other couples?

We saw Colby and April hooking up on their last night in bed. Yes, it felt like more of a "Why not, its the last night? Let's make out". It's just that it was never brought up by anyone and it happened on top of those two being the most active outside of the participants. Not saying April cheated with some random guy but she was encouraging contact with single guys past the club.

[Booger666]

On 4/21/2022 at 10:30 PM, topanga said:

And this seems like an unpopular opinion, but I don’t like Rae.

I don’t like Rae, either.  A lot.  She lost me with “Zay has the full package with me because I stay in the gym, I have a degree, I cook, I clean, and I know how to f**k."  The fact that she says nothing about empathy, loyalty, kindness, etc tells me she’s a shitty human.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 4/25/2022 at 1:03 PM, Booger666 said:

I don’t like Rae, either.  A lot.  She lost me with “Zay has the full package with me because I stay in the gym, I have a degree, I cook, I clean, and I know how to f**k."  The fact that she says nothing about empathy, loyalty, kindness, etc tells me she’s a shitty human.

That answer could be the product of editing. She could have listed empathy, loyalty, kindness etc as part of her good qualities and it just got chopped.

Or she could have not listed qualities like empathy, loyalty, kindness etc because most people have them and so they are easy to come by. Which to a certain extent, I would agree. How many people are devoid of e/l/k? Or don't generally have them for at least some people? Maybe I'm naive, but those are sociopaths and I'd like to think that there aren't too many women who fall in that category. 

Or she could not have listed them just in the heat of the moment. I'm sure if you asked her, "Do you think e/l/k are important?" she would say "Of course."

Or she could have not listed them because she thinks her own best qualities are her physical fitness, her education, her ability to housekeep and her sex. That doesn't mean that she's a shitty human being because she rates e/l/k as less important. It may make her naive, superficial, inexperienced or a whole bunch of other things. But a leap to think that makes her an actively bad person.

[Court]

On 4/12/2022 at 3:11 PM, zenithwit said:

I kinda wished they had a different system for creating the new pairings rather than the awkward dinner conversation.  It wouldn't have to be complicated.  Maybe something like each person rank the remaining women/men (i.e. everyone except their real-life partner).  Then if two people rank each other first, they would obviously be paired up and so on.

I think this would prevent some of the early engagements, at least initially.  Plus it would be good drama to see someone like Lauren get her first pick while Nate gets his last pick (which probably would be Alexis lol).

Yes, or have them take compatibility tests or something! 

[maccity]

On 4/12/2022 at 5:21 AM, GeorgiaM said:

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I sincerely dislike Madlyn. She looks completely drunk all the time and I really can’t understand what people see in her. I hate listening to her and watching her. She pressured Randell into getting physical because that is how she is expressing herself. Seriously? The night she got together with the girls she was a mess. I also hated when she brought Colby in that meeting with her gfs. She should be able to decide for herself what she wants to do. It was just an ambush. I am not taking Colby’s side, but if he is so horrible just dump him. Don’t make a mockery of a “trial” with your friends as judges! Shanique is soooo immature, she never listens and she thinks her opinions are the best. She also got physical with Zay, just because she was mad at Randell. Nate is simply horrible. Just because he wasn’t picked twice and started to get afraid that Lauren might fall in love with Colby, he decided to propose. Not agreeing whether to have kids or not is a deal breaker. I really hope Lauren breaks up with him. April is too much. I seriously don’t understand the rush in getting married and having kids at 23. She is also sharing too much about their sex life and the unprotected sex. That moment at the bachelorette party when she said she can’t drink alcohol was just to show Rae that her relationships with Jack is solid. I liked Randell, Jake and Rae, but I still have some episodes to watch. Alexis is not worth mentioning. She was horrible…

Finally! I didn't like Madlyn like at all, definitely high all the time and I found it strange she was mad Colby experimented when she was very much into Randall and enjoying the trial marriage with him. It annoyed me when Randall was trying to talk to her about something that obviously made her uncomfortable because it was the truth, nothing was wrong with what Randall was telling her. I don't know why they kept having them hangout while they were in trial marriages, if you break up with your spouse in real life they move on and you move on.. no hanging out with the person they are dating and hearing all about how much fun they are having, why torture yourself like that? Honestly Shanique was annoying too because she was super immature, always walking off. I believe she thinks marriage is all about "happy wife, happy life" but the mans happiness matters as well, she's soo self absorbed like who tf is going to sit in a corner and cry over someone that is off having fun with their trial partner.. very unrealistic. Zay just... needs to stop speaking, he rarely makes any meaningful statements. I loved Rae out of everyone and while I agree Rae and Jake were super cute together I was annoyed with him all in Aprils face obviously lying to her because he knew he had feelings for Rae and it was apparent him and April were not going to be together by the end of the show.. saw that day one when he was talking to Rae. Alexis is insufferable, I am glad Hunter finally married her, his proposal was cute and he loves Alexis and can put up with her so more power to him. Lauren is dumb or cheats on Nate when he travels for work because if you don't want kids and literally just seen him say he wants trial marriage with TWO different women who didn't pick him, then tries to pick Madlyn after she already picked Randall... like sir, what? I liked Colby initially but hes too fake, always putting on a façade but they got married tho and appear happy on IG with a new baby so maybe he actually listens now or w.e. April shouldn't have said anything about the "maybe baby" when at the bachelorette party, it was out of spite and obviously to get at Rae. Don't even know why Alexis and her pointy chin had a bachelorette party with them... she doesn't have any like actual friends? I've not watched the reunion but I've seen enough, they are all ridiculous putting themselves on display like that, mmh.

[maccity]

On 4/25/2022 at 2:03 PM, Booger666 said:

I don’t like Rae, either.  A lot.  She lost me with “Zay has the full package with me because I stay in the gym, I have a degree, I cook, I clean, and I know how to f**k."  The fact that she says nothing about empathy, loyalty, kindness, etc tells me she’s a shitty human.

 Actually forgot that’s how she introduced herself and their relationship, I did feel bad for Zay when he initially was saying that Rae doesn’t open up or talk to him about certain things he’s looking for, so this makes sense actually. I feel like she just wasn’t really into Zay and that’s why the relationship was so easy to break off, esp when putting hands on each other gets involved Zay shoved her and she punched his shoulder… I’ve been through worse but still any hands on any body without consent is wrong. 

[LakeGal]

I have been watching the France version.  I have to wait until next week to see who stays together and gets engaged and who breaks up.    

[LakeGal]

I finished the France version.  I was sad that the one couple got back together.  I don't know why Lindsay took Scott back.  The long haired dude did not show up for the reunion party.  

[Kiss my mutt]

Everyone in the cast knows Scott is a dick and Lindsey would be better off without him. He is full of shit. I liked Romane and Ricy the best and hate how coldly she is being treated especially the girls, who are jealous of her. She is better off without Theo. 
I’m doubtful Sophianne is going to make it big with his music career. His singing made me cringe. 
I guess Ricy and Katherine have consummated their relationship. He is a patient man. 
I liked this season much better than the American one. They seemed to take things more seriously overall. 
 

 

[Door County Cherry]

Discussion for Ultimatum: Queer Love now has its own thread.  Discussion of that show has been moved there and should continue there.