S42.E04: Vibe of the Tribe

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, Taeolas said:

As far as the challenges go, Jonathan certainly is pulling his tribe along, but the rest of them are still pulling their weights for the most part. (Maryanne's swimming aside). We did have 1 challenge that was pretty much custom-designed for his strengths last week, but this week it was more his leadership and teamwork skills that got the win as much as his strength. Sadly, unless he can build up an epic idol run, his time post-merge is likely to be limited. But he'll probably be a shoo-in for the next few AllStars if he wants to. He could probably get a partner and do a TAR and/or MTV Challenge run if he wants to stay in the RealityTV pool. 

Good points.  And he knows when to use his leadership and teamwork skills rather than just muscle through tasks.   I think he has good Challenge potential…just needs to ensure his endurance matches his strength.  

[grandmabegum]

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I am hoping Jonathon finds an immunity idol or an advantage and it keeps him safe. He has been a rock for his team, he hasn't been bragging about it, and he seems like an overall nice guy with an amazing body.

I hope he does, too. Part of me wants to see how Jonathan would have thread that secret phrase in if he had found it.

 

2 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I honestly can't remember if this particular archetype has ever been as low-key and humble as Jonathan.  The last guy built like him that I can remember was the jerk from Micronesia that slammed Chet's face into a wooden pole during a challenge where they were tied together and then proceeded to literally drag him through the rest of the course. 

I didn't see this season when it first aired, but it is one of two available on Netflix and wow, jerk is the kindest phrase you could have about that guy.

 

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Jonathon's Dad sounds like a giant asshole. I didn't hear an explanation as to why Jonathon's Dad thought that running up and down mountains in the early morning was a great idea, maybe he watched the first episode of Band of Brothers and thought that Captain Sobel had a great training method for his Airborn dudes? 

Whether or not it seems like Jonathan's dad isn't ideal, Jonathan doesn't seem to hold resentment towards him. He seems to give his father credit for some of the positive attributes he has. Whether that was because of his father's discipline or because of coping with it, I don't know. Can someone get Tori in here?

 

[Cheyanne11]

8 hours ago, Nashville said:

Jonathan's dad sounds like a right egregious asshole.

I legit thought that talking head was going to end with Jonathan crying and saying he worked so hard on his physicality because he's always been chasing Daddy's love and approval, but, lol, no, he seems fine with it.

[DEL901]

11 minutes ago, grandmabegum said:

I hope he does, too. Part of me wants to see how Jonathan would have thread that secret phrase in if he had found it.

 

I didn't see this season when it first aired, but it is one of two available on Netflix and wow, jerk is the kindest phrase you could have about that guy.

 

Whether or not it seems like Jonathan's dad isn't ideal, Jonathan doesn't seem to hold resentment towards him. He seems to give his father credit for some of the positive attributes he has. Whether that was because of his father's discipline or because of coping with it, I don't know. Can someone get Tori in here?

 

 

6 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

I legit thought that talking head was going to end with Jonathan crying and saying he worked so hard on his physicality because he's always been chasing Daddy's love and approval, but, lol, no, he seems fine with it.

Apparently his dad is some sort of big deal local politician.  In the interview I linked to in his thread, Jonathan said they took different paths or something but his dad supports him.  He also talks a lot about a former wrestler turned faith leader who seems to have taken him under his wing and guided him…in fact he had a lot more to say about this guy than his dad.  Maybe “Mr. Lex” as he calls him, helped?   He said he was 22 when they met at Church, and called him one of the formative influences in his life.  

Edited March 31, 2022 by DEL901

[Lady Calypso]

I do agree that Jonathan seems like a decent guy. He knows what he's capable of and won't hide it, but it doesn't seem like he's necessarily bragging about it; he just knows that he's able to perform all the physical aspects of the show on his own. But damn, his dad sounds like he sucks. Forcing your three year old to get up and do pull-ups? 

Jonathan/Omar/Lindsay/Maryanne do look fairly tight-knit, it does remind me a lot of Aitu 4. Not necessarily for their tribe being at 4 so early on, but more with how well they seem to work together and how they seem to like each other. Plus, their most dominant player being the best at challenges.

With how Jonathan is already perceived as a threat, it seems like he'll have to go on an immunity run come merge because, if he loses an immunity, the rest of the players should logically take him out. Even if he's not strong at the puzzle aspects, he's going to be the biggest physical threat. Though I like Jonathan, so I don't want him to go early.

Oh, Daniel. You're truly terrible at this game. He seems like a nice guy, but he's terrible at Survivor. He's probably even worse than Jackson, who got med-evaced for lying about his meds, and Zach, the first true vote-out. Likeability isn't going to make me root for him to stay, unfortunately for him. Blaming Chanelle when he screwed up that tribal was the wrong way to go, although I do agree with his point about Chanelle seemingly getting away with her own bone-headed move in risking her vote during a crucial tribal. 

Daniel is pretty much a goner the first chance the tribe gets, though. He can't worm his way out of his horrible tribal council blunder.

Similarly to Swati, who played too hard and got burned. Telling everyone they're her number one was horrible from her. Of course Tori would throw her under the bus, and of course Romeo/Drea would catch on. I don't care for anyone on that tribe, except for maybe Drea, so I couldn't care less if that tribe keeps losing.

Overall, I do like this cast, but I can't pinpoint my favourites, which is odd. They're all fairly "in the middle" for me. I don't hate them, but I don't love them. I like some more than others, but there's not many who I'd say will stand out in my mind after this season, unlike last season. Yet, this season is more fun in terms of gameplay, so...odd.

[fishcakes]

Rocksroy is like the dad in a mediocre sitcom who thinks he's running things but is always wrong and is saved from calamity every week only because everyone ignores him and goes about their business. Drea and Romeo will probably stick with him over Tori, if it comes to that, but Tori is just so funny with her faces and passive-aggressive therapy-speak that I hope she stays for a while. Rocksroy seems miserable, like miserable to others but also as if he's hating every minute of being out there, so he's not enjoyable to watch.

Has there ever been a bigger whiner than Daniel? Good grief. He acts like Chanelle got off scot-free, but no one wants to work with Chanelle either. He's not mad that she's not on the outs with him; he's mad because no one bought his story about how it was ALL HER and he was her innocent victim like the rest of them. He thinks everyone should forgive him and put Chanelle in the ocean just because he said so.

6 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

I legit thought that talking head was going to end with Jonathan crying and saying he worked so hard on his physicality because he's always been chasing Daddy's love and approval, but, lol, no, he seems fine with it.

lol, that's how I thought it was going to go too. He's seems awfully well-adjusted for someone who was raised by the Great Santini.

[willgracefan]

15 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

Boston Rob was 4th out? Since when? 

She clarified on Twitter that she meant Rob Cesternino 

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, willgracefan said:

She clarified on Twitter that she meant Rob Cesternino 

Didn’t she say Boston Rob though?  And Rob C finished 3rd his first season.  I know he went out early in All-Stars, but that’s because he came in as the "best player to never win" (thanks Probst).  I hope Swati doesn’t think she’s really on the same level of game play.  

Edited March 31, 2022 by LadyChatts

[jsm1125]

I’m impressed with Romeo. He’s the only one who doesn’t even seem to be in the conversation in terms of who from his tribe should be targeted.

[LadyChatts]

9 hours ago, laurakaye said:

True - but I feel like it's already getting weird, with Jeff pointedly directing a question to MaryAnne and her responding with "bunnies eating dinner in my mailbox, Jeff!"  Especially since no one else is answering her in kind (I don't understand why Mike isn't responding with his own phrase but I'm probably confused about the rules).  Next week it's going to be, "So, MaryAnne - how's your tribe getting along?"  "Like bunnies having dinner in my mailbox, Jeff!"  Or, "MaryAnne - what do you miss most about home?"  "Having dinner with the bunnies in my mailbox!"  If she continues to be the only one spouting her phrase, at some point I have to think the players that aren't in on the phrase thing are going to wonder if something's going on.

I don’t even think she has to say it every time, unless the rules changed from last season.  Just when she hears someone else say their phrase.  But I’m also confused about the rules, because I don’t know how Mike has gotten away without saying the phrase, especially when the clue said “you must say this at the next challenge”.  I know his logic is he doesn’t want anyone else to know he has an idol on the other tribes, but it doesn’t seem fair.  Someone not having their vote because of him (assuming Ika finds their idol and says their phrase) could alter their game.  I already thought that next season they’d change the idol up from this current format, and Mike not revealing his clue probably assures that they will.  

Edited March 31, 2022 by LadyChatts

[MsMalin]

What Jonathan's dad did actually sounded like child abuse to me. But Jonathan wasn't alluding to anything like that. In fact he sounded proud.

Can someone please explain why Maryanne was mad at Jonathan? I couldn't understand that at all. For Ms Sunshine to be mad about that seems ridiculous to me.

[laurakaye]

10 minutes ago, MsMalin said:

Can someone please explain why Maryanne was mad at Jonathan? I couldn't understand that at all. For Ms Sunshine to be mad about that seems ridiculous to me.

I think she was "upset" about how Jonathan was telling Jeff how close their tribe was and how well they work together, making them a target come merge?  It seemed off, or weirdly edited, to me.

[HurricaneVal]

I agree.  Jonathon is amazing, and really seems to be a nice guy too, but he's going to be out the first time he loses an individual immunity challenge after the merge.  He might be able to tone it down, or work his nice guy social game or provider game, but at some point the smart thing is to get rid of the immunity threat.

Daniel.....oh, how I wanted to like you.  You're just really screwing this whole thing up, aren't you? 

Romeo is playing a very interesting game.  I'll be interested to see how that goes after the merge.  Right now he's doing a great job surfing the wave of tribe dynamics.  I wish Drea would ally herself with him, I think they would make a good power duo.

Lydia's performance in that challenge just illustrates how badly screwed up and unbalanced that last tribal council was.  Jenny is more physically able than Lydia and a good puzzler as well.  That tribe got lucky this week.

Rocksroy is lucky his tribe is keeping him around for his physicality and that Swati's inept scheming was exposed.  Once his tribe gets a whiff of an approaching merge and they don't need his muscles, he's likely to be gone-gone-gone.  Buh-byeeeee!

That........was a lot of fish.  They have no access to refrigeration or safe food storage if they'd managed to smoke any to preserve it.  They had to eat it all, that day, before it spoiled.  I get it that they're hungry, but that's a lot of food to cram into shrunken stomachs.

I am not happy with the lack of camp-life scenes.  I want to see that whole tribe lying around with distended full bellies moaning in happy pain after their fishy feast.  At tribal council they talked about the horrific rainstorm the previous night--where was the footage of each tribe miserably huddled under failing shelters and Rocksroy telling everyone if they'd done it the way he wanted to they'd be warm and dry?  Where's the fun bits of early morning beach yoga, the finding of unexpected beauty in the jungle, or bobbing around in the crystal clear tropical water just loving life?  Where's the arguing over who washed their socks in the cooking pot?  I miss that.

[himela]

Ok so I think this is the first season in years that I have no idea of what is going on and why in the game. I still don't get what happened with Daniel and Mike in the previous tribal council and I sure don't know why Tori did not leave. But this is the second time we knew she wouldn't leave

Spoiler

because the idiots editors showed her finding the idol with the weird phrase in the intro

I don't know if it's because I'm too invested in BBCan but I don't know what is going on with Survivor and honestly I don't really care :P

[Kenzie]

4 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

In case anyone is wondering how self-aware Tori is of her edit:

That "Blond-headed girl" reminds me of a young Margaret Hamilton (The Wizard of Oz).

[himela]

17 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Only MaryAnne could get away with saying her idol line about bunnies more than once without raising suspicion.

Do we have any info why and how Mike gets away with not saying his phrase since the paper he got says "you MUST say this phrase at the next immunity challenge"?

[LadyChatts]

5 minutes ago, himela said:

Do we have any info why and how Mike gets away with not saying his phrase since the paper he got says "you MUST say this phrase at the next immunity challenge"?

I'm still confused about that.  Evvie posted on her twitter account that the rules changed for S42 when it came to idols.  In S41, if the 3 idols weren't found and activated by the merge, the castaways would get their votes back, but the idols would be dead.  For S42, it says that the vote penalty ends at the merge, but they still get their idol. 

Which, if Mike realizes that, isn't really fair that he can sit on his clue and know who has the idols on the other tribe, and deny them having a pre-merge vote.  I kind of hope that, because Mike didn't follow the clue, he'll discover he has no idol at the merge.  

[AncientNewbie]

The wrestler was John Hennigan, also known as John Morrison, also known as...I could go on, because appearing under different ring names is sort of part of his gimmick as a wrestler. 

Meathead that banged Chet's head and famously didn't care was Joel.

Says something about this season that the most I have to reply the day after is with "past seasons" knowledge. I'm enjoying it well enough, but so far no one has leapt out to make me truly care. The closest is Tori, who mainly I care that I want her to lose, but it's been a while since we had a good villain (as opposed to a bad person.) 

[Lady Calypso]

20 minutes ago, himela said:

Do we have any info why and how Mike gets away with not saying his phrase since the paper he got says "you MUST say this phrase at the next immunity challenge"?

No idea because I did see screenshots of the Beware Advantage, and it says the exact same thing it did last season.

It could be that production thought Daniel and Mike's idea was genius and decided to let it slide. Maybe, because of the absurdity of season 41's Beware Advantage, they realized that what they had didn't work and decided to alter the advantage last minute (just not on the paper). Who knows? I do think that this method is more entertaining than having to hear the idol holders utter stupid phrases every immunity challenge, because it allows more strategic gameplay to be used. Plus, we saw what happened last season when they stuck with the phrase having to be uttered; everyone knew where the idols were due to it. 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, himela said:

Ok so I think this is the first season in years that I have no idea of what is going on and why in the game. I still don't get what happened with Daniel and Mike in the previous tribal council and I sure don't know why Tori did not leave. But this is the second time we knew she wouldn't leave

  Reveal spoiler

because the idiots editors showed her finding the idol with the weird phrase in the intro

I don't know if it's because I'm too invested in BBCan but I don't know what is going on with Survivor and honestly I don't really care :P

Tori didn't leave because Drea and Romeo felt that Swati was playing all sides, telling everyone that she was their number one (which the helpful editors backed up with clips). Also, it came out that Swati was the one who first targeted Drea, after Drea told her and Tori about her extra vote advantage (even though Swati tried to pin that on Tori). So for those reasons, they decided Swati was less reliable as an ally going forward (and in Drea's case, actually targeting her).

[LadyChatts]

Double post

Edited March 31, 2022 by LadyChatts

[KeithJ]

5 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I know, right? If only they'd listened to him 😆

The first time Maryanne said her phrase and Mike didn't respond, he explained in a talking head that he was waiting for someone on the Blue tribe to say their phrase before he said his. Because there was no point in him saying his if the third one wasn't invoked. Now, there's some debate about whether or not he really has the option to not say it, but for now that's what the show is giving us.

Yeah, I wish they would give some clarity on this.  I though the note said "you must say this phrase at the next IC".

[Maggie Mae]

39 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

No idea because I did see screenshots of the Beware Advantage, and it says the exact same thing it did last season.

It could be that production thought Daniel and Mike's idea was genius and decided to let it slide. Maybe, because of the absurdity of season 41's Beware Advantage, they realized that what they had didn't work and decided to alter the advantage last minute (just not on the paper). Who knows? I do think that this method is more entertaining than having to hear the idol holders utter stupid phrases every immunity challenge, because it allows more strategic gameplay to be used. Plus, we saw what happened last season when they stuck with the phrase having to be uttered; everyone knew where the idols were due to it. 

If this is the case then they should be telling Maryanne that she doesn't have to say her bunny phrase at each IC.  She is following the rules and Mike is not.

[Wandering Snark]

8 hours ago, DallasGypsy said:

"Shot in the Dark" is basically a losing situation.  There are five "Not Safe" options and only one "Safe" option.  It's my understanding that each player picks from six papers, so the chances of pulling the one "Safe" paper are way long.  

Yeah, another miss had me thinking about it, if you set up a challenge with six numbers, out of 10 or 100 even how many times could you pick out that #6 when shuffled about???

2 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

but it's been a while since we had a good villain (as opposed to a bad person.) 

Good distinction there between "Hate and want to see maimed and/or embarrassed terribly" and "Love to Hate".

1 hour ago, Maggie Mae said:

She is following the rules and Mike is not.

Yeah that's the part that bug me is that clearly the phrasing has made Maryann think this is an every time deal but for Mike it means 'Whenever it's convenient for me to say' which has consequences in the game. So I hope Mike somehow gets a fake idol to play instead and doesn't know it until Jeff throws it in the fire. (Followed by an optional but welcomed 'Expect the Unexpected' Victory Dance, Touchdown Style by Probst)

Edited March 31, 2022 by Wandering Snark

[bankerchick]

I quoted the note in last week's thread.  It clearly states that at the next immunity challenge they must say the phrase.  Then it says that when all 3 phrases are said at the same immunity challenge, the idols will become active.  There is nothing about having to say the phrase at every challenge, so if I were Maryann, I'd lay off saying it again until both other players had said it.  I have no idea why the note says 'must' yet Mike hasn't said it, but I also haven't totally discounted the idea of Jeff telling him when the time comes that his idol is not active because he didn't follow the rules.

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, MsMalin said:

What Jonathan's dad did actually sounded like child abuse to me. But Jonathan wasn't alluding to anything like that. In fact he sounded proud.

This. I thought for sure that was the beginning of Jonathan's sob story about an abusive dad but Jonathan thinks that stuff was actually awesome. They need to get him into a therapy session with Tori lol.

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It could be that production thought Daniel and Mike's idea was genius and decided to let it slide. 

I assume that's what happened. They probably creamed themselves when Daniel came up with that so they said 'rules schmules.'

[violet and green]

I think he's saying he is as strong as he is because of his dad's values... But the fact he had to get himself a second father figure when young speaks volumes. I think he's appreciating what has come out of his childhood, rather than being unaware it was bad treatment of a child.

[ProfCrash]

Or Maryann could be more interested in getting her vote back sooner then Mike. The two could just have a different idea about how to play the beware advantage. 

[LanceM]

I have a feeling that Tori is going to cockroach her way all the way to the end much like the great Angelina did from a few seasons back and I must say I am going to enjoy the ride. 

 

[nlkm9]

22 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

*sigh* Another blah episode. I think I'm only watching this "live" because I like posting in the live thread. Also, it's a good place to bring out lame material . . . like "Rocksroy sounds like a Pokemon name."

Jonathan . . . wow. I think he's going to be targeted and thrown over the top rope the first chance he's vulnerable ("see also: Boneham, Rupert"). It's a bit sad because he seems nice so far . . . but he's an alpha dude. When I was half-watching March Madness stuff, I saw a brief commercial showing the awesomeness of Jonathan from last week's episode. Probst could have edited that, and I wouldn't be shocked. It feels like he's capable of doing anything and everything he can to keep a stud like Jonathan in the game. And I feel like I'm supposed to root against a stud because of that.

Maryann continues to Maryann. She's going to keep bringing out that bunny until she's told to stop. I get how she can grate, but it's fun for me. And I can't blame her for celebrating her sinking the ball. I'm thinking she figured it would take a lot longer for that to happen.

Honest Question: is there any paper in "Shot n The Dark" that is labeled "SAFE"? I'm doubting it. Or maybe I'm feeling that because three doomed players wound up trying and failing to get instant immunity.

At what point are they going to react to the fact that the secret phrase is only being spoken by one of the 2 finders ( or has it been found by 3; I’m confused

 

 

 

 

[ZeeEnnui]

Only Maryann could get away with saying that b.s. phrase about bunnies in mailboxes. That is not a compliment. 

Jonathan, Jonathan, JONATHAN!!! Take it up with Probst, and his man crush on "Don't Call Me, Goliath." Also, guuuuuyyyysss Jonathan told everyone our tribe was super tight!!! The secret is out and...stuff. I mean....what? If Omar and Maryann want some extra camera time then maybe come up with some better fake drama.

I don't care for Tori but I appreciate her role as a fish-face making agent of chaos and backstabbing. Carry on with your two-faced self. 

[KaveDweller]

9 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Didn’t she say Boston Rob though?  And Rob C finished 3rd his first season.  I know he went out early in All-Stars, but that’s because he came in as the "best player to never win" (thanks Probst).  I hope Swati doesn’t think she’s really on the same level of game play.  

I swear she said Boston Rob too. And talked about maybe this meant she'd dominate in an all stars season. 

8 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I'm still confused about that.  Evvie posted on her twitter account that the rules changed for S42 when it came to idols.  In S41, if the 3 idols weren't found and activated by the merge, the castaways would get their votes back, but the idols would be dead.  For S42, it says that the vote penalty ends at the merge, but they still get their idol. 

Which, if Mike realizes that, isn't really fair that he can sit on his clue and know who has the idols on the other tribe, and deny them having a pre-merge vote.  I kind of hope that, because Mike didn't follow the clue, he'll discover he has no idol at the merge.  

I just wish they would clarify. Last season I thought I read that one of the producers confirmed Xander had to keep saying his butterfly phrase at every challenge, because people were wondering why he kept saying it after the first time when no one else had responded. It is annoying to not know the rules, it makes it seem like they are just making them up as they go along.

I think having the idols die if no one activates is a better way to do it, but I guess we'll see how the rest of the season goes.

[Cotypubby]

I think people here are putting too much emphasis on the word must. I read it not as “This must be said!! at the next immunity challenge,” but more that it cannot be said at a reward or at any other point, it must be said at an immunity challenge only.

[violet and green]

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I swear she said Boston Rob too.

She did. "Boston Rob was fourth out in his first season! So, who knows, maybe you'll see me winning a season of All Stars in the future."

Said with a sweet and engaging smile and manner, and prefaced by talk of her realising the mistake she made. She was just being upbeat.

[BK1978]

11 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

At tribal council they talked about the horrific rainstorm the previous night--where was the footage of each tribe miserably huddled under failing shelters and Rocksroy telling everyone if they'd done it the way he wanted to they'd be warm and dry?  Where's the fun bits of early morning beach yoga, the finding of unexpected beauty in the jungle, or bobbing around in the crystal clear tropical water just loving life?  Where's the arguing over who washed their socks in the cooking pot?  I miss that.

Those were pretty much my thoughts as well.  I was like, "Well that was such an odd thing to bring up, especially as we the viewers did not get the chance to see it."

I would love to see them dealing with their harsh environment, not because I want to see them suffer. More because I would like to see how they handle living through such a situation.  

11 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

The wrestler was John Hennigan, also known as John Morrison, also known as...I could go on, because appearing under different ring names is sort of part of his gimmick as a wrestler. 

 

At least he's not at Brutus Beefcake levels of name changes yet.

[paoconn]

Is it just me or is Survivor getting too politically correct? Tick off all the boxes. Have they not watched Australian Survivor. It is twice as good. Their twists are game changers and merges and all.. starting with 24 and having multiple episodes a week is the way yo go...like Big Brother. I am on ep11 of season 2 and there are still 4 really pretty girls and at least 3 studs left. This season and last on American Survivor have been underwhelming. It's like they are forcing the winner to be a person of color or LBGTQ+...Tell me I'm wrong. See big brother "Cookout" alliance. There's one muscle guy this season and only a couple bikini girls. Are they trying to bring ratings down? C'mon...swing the "People that look like me" pendulum back to the middle. Where's Amber and Boston Rob? Do they NOT want showmances? 

CBS give us Survivor fans what we want beauty and Braun and you can keep all the boxes checked still...I may sound bigoted, but I am not. Just watch Survivor Australia.

[SVNBob]

On 3/30/2022 at 10:34 PM, DEL901 said:

I was looking at Jonathan’s bio.  His hobbies are working out, surfing and…..spear fishing.  I figure after winning fishing gear last week…these fish are nice, but they’d eat well regardless.   

Sounds like they would.  But what made this a very good reward was the "caught for them" part.  Meaning they didn't have to expend any additional energy to catch  the fish themselves.   Yes, they spent energy at the RC, but everyone did.  But afterwards, Green and Blue had to go spend more energy to gather and prepare food, while Orange only had to prepare it.  Blue and Green might end up with no net loss of energy (though not bloody likely) from all that, but Orange probably had a net energy gain, which was additional help in the IC.

 

12 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

Romeo is playing a very interesting game.  I'll be interested to see how that goes after the merge.  Right now he's doing a great job surfing the wave of tribe dynamics.  I wish Drea would ally herself with him, I think they would make a good power duo.

They are allies, and have been from the start.  Episode 1 showed them and Rocksroy become an alliance.   Drea might have also floated the idea of a female alliance, but Romeo would have been their 4th.

 

On 3/30/2022 at 9:59 PM, Lantern7 said:

Honest Question: is there any paper in "Shot n The Dark" that is labeled "SAFE"? I'm doubting it. Or maybe I'm feeling that because three doomed players wound up trying and failing to get instant immunity.

Assuming TPTB are playing fair, then yes.  It's just the odds are against the players and the math has worked properly.  (As opposed to Deshawn defying the odds of the Monty Hall Problem last season).  1 "Safe" vs 5 identical "Not Safe".  They're always more likely to draw 1 of the 5 than the single 1.  (5/6, or 83.33(repeating infinitely) %.)

 

10 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Yeah, another miss had me thinking about it, if you set up a challenge with six numbers, out of 10 or 100 even how many times could you pick out that #6 when shuffled about???

With a reset every time?  Slim odds get even slimmer.

But with the Shot in the Dark, remember that each player only gets to do it once.  So their odds won't change.  Unless 2 or more people use their Shot at the same TC, and the scroll bag isn't reset in between.  (I'm assuming it gets reset to the default 1 of 6 by the start of every TC.)

And for everyone thinking that someone is "due" to draw the "Safe" sooner or later; that's the Gambler's Fallacy and the foundation upon which Las Vegas was built.  The only way someone would truly be due to draw "Safe" would be if the scroll bag was never reset until emptied, and 5 previous players pulled all the "Not Safe" scrolls.

[Tsunami1982]

Imagine having Rocksroy as your stay-at-home dad. Ok son, stir the noodles counter-clockwise, not clockwise. No, you're tying your shoes wrong. You always put the left lace under the right one. Super control freak...what a nightmare. I'm sure the only dreams his kids have are about the day they're finally able to leave.

Strength isn't always the deciding factor in IC's, but Jonathan has given his tribe the edge in more than a few. Aside from his physical stature, I think he's got a good heart and wants to do the right thing.

Maryanne is as sweet as the day is long, but it would be a long day.

Omar can barely swim. 

Haven't seen much of Chanelle, but hoping I can add her to the few I'm pulling for this season. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Tsunami1982

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

It is annoying to not know the rules, it makes it seem like they are just making them up as they go along.

Bingo!

[ProfCrash]

9 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I think people here are putting too much emphasis on the word must. I read it not as “This must be said!! at the next immunity challenge,” but more that it cannot be said at a reward or at any other point, it must be said at an immunity challenge only.

I suspect that you are right. The must isn't that it has to be said at every challenge but that it can only be activated at a challenge and that it has to be said with the other two phrases. I can see reading it that you have to say it but also the way Daniel has read it and shared with Mike. And then it turns into how risk averse are you? If you think you are in trouble or being without a vote makes you nervous, you are willing to say the phrase at every challenge. If you are risk acceptant, then you don't and wait for the idol to activate at the merge. 

I would also agree that this is Survivor and they are comfortable with flexing the rules if they think there is a benefit to doing that. The problem is once they allow that flex, it has to be allowed in the future or they have to re-write the rule. I know that the original immunity idol was used differently then they thought so they re-wrote that rule. Yul read the rules and used it in a legal way that Production hadn't thought of. 

Stephen Fishbach (sp) has said that he was allowed to come up with his interpretation of his steal a vote advantage (I think that was his) and Production didn't correct him, if his approach was wrong. Rob C teases Stephen that his rule interpretation was awful and maybe he should have asked Production for clarification....

So there are at least two examples of Production letting the players read and interpret the rules and going with it. 

And the rules for the three way idol changed this season, it activates if you get to the merge with an inactive idol. That gives the players an incentive to look at the activation differently then last season. I kind of like it because it gives players a chance to have the idol and not put a target on their back. Mike's tribe knows he has an idol, so he has that target, but the other tribes don't know Mike has one. Mike's tribe knows Maryann has one, because they have all read the clue by now and know her phrase. 

I kind of like it.

[himela]

At the very least I didn't notice someone having too much unnecessary air time right? I think everyone has had their fair share of air time.

[fishcakes]

57 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I would also agree that this is Survivor and they are comfortable with flexing the rules if they think there is a benefit to doing that. The problem is once they allow that flex, it has to be allowed in the future or they have to re-write the rule. I know that the original immunity idol was used differently then they thought so they re-wrote that rule. Yul read the rules and used it in a legal way that Production hadn't thought of. 

Stephen Fishbach (sp) has said that he was allowed to come up with his interpretation of his steal a vote advantage (I think that was his) and Production didn't correct him, if his approach was wrong. Rob C teases Stephen that his rule interpretation was awful and maybe he should have asked Production for clarification....

So there are at least two examples of Production letting the players read and interpret the rules and going with it. 

Years ago, Jeff said in an interview that players are always coming up with loopholes and if they just exploit the loophole, then he would allow it, but if they asked if they could do it beforehand, he'd say no. He said Colby in particular was always thinking about faster ways to do things, but the problem was he'd ask Jeff if it was okay so Jeff would say no. He was talking specifically about challenges, but I could see them adopting the same philosophy with respect to advantages.

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, himela said:

At the very least I didn't notice someone having too much unnecessary air time right? I think everyone has had their fair share of air time.

It's definitely been one of the better seasons so far in terms of hearing from everyone. Everyone from Green (except maybe Lydia?) had their say at the beginning after their tribal, we heard a good bit from most people on Orange in the middle of the episode, and of course everyone was quite present on Blue. I might say that Lindsay has been a tad under-edited, but that might just be because I'm crushing on intrigued by her.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I legit thought that talking head was going to end with Jonathan crying and saying he worked so hard on his physicality because he's always been chasing Daddy's love and approval, but, lol, no, he seems fine with it.

I'm not going to play armchair psychologist but plenty of people love their parents even if they were abusive. 

Quote

Do we have any info why and how Mike gets away with not saying his phrase since the paper he got says "you MUST say this phrase at the next immunity challenge"?

My interpretation was that the player "must" say the phrase in order to activate the idol. Not that they "must" say the phrase, regardless. That seems to be Mike's take on it too. However:

Quote

It is annoying to not know the rules, it makes it seem like they are just making them up as they go along.

Agreed. I'm crossing my fingers this is the last season for these stupid "secret phrase" idols. Because . . . it's stupid.

[bankerchick]

 

12 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I think people here are putting too much emphasis on the word must. I read it not as “This must be said!! at the next immunity challenge,” but more that it cannot be said at a reward or at any other point, it must be said at an immunity challenge only.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see any other way of interpreting the exact phrase, 'At the next immunity challenge you must say a secret phrase in front of the other players' to mean anything other than at the next immunity challenge you must say a secret phrase in front of the other players.  There are no qualifiers about 'in order to activate the idol' or 'if you want to activate the idol' or 'it doesn't count if you do it anywhere else.'  If it's not in the note, how can the players assume it means anything other than exactly what it says?  I think it's more likely that Mike will find himself penalized for not saying the phrase, but Jeff can't do anything about it right now because there are two other clues out there.  I guess we can agree to disagree, but will have to wait until the time comes to find out.

[RedbirdNelly]

4 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I suspect that you are right. The must isn't that it has to be said at every challenge but that it can only be activated at a challenge and that it has to be said with the other two phrases. I can see reading it that you have to say it but also the way Daniel has read it and shared with Mike. And then it turns into how risk averse are you? If you think you are in trouble or being without a vote makes you nervous, you are willing to say the phrase at every challenge. If you are risk acceptant, then you don't and wait for the idol to activate at the merge. 

 

Hate to read it like a lawyer, but if the rules say "next immunity challenge" I don't see how that means "any immunity challenge. Seems like they should have deleted "next" and just said you have to read this at the same challenge where 2 other crazy phrases are read.

1 hour ago, bankerchick said:

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see any other way of interpreting the exact phrase, 'At the next immunity challenge you must say a secret phrase in front of the other players' to mean anything other than at the next immunity challenge you must say a secret phrase in front of the other players.  There are no qualifiers about 'in order to activate the idol' or 'if you want to activate the idol' or 'it doesn't count if you do it anywhere else.'  If it's not in the note, how can the players assume it means anything other than exactly what it says?  I think it's more likely that Mike will find himself penalized for not saying the phrase, but Jeff can't do anything about it right now because there are two other clues out there.  I guess we can agree to disagree, but will have to wait until the time comes to find out.

I had the same thoughts--and posted mine before reading yours. What is the meaning of "next"? why is that word there if it doesn't mean "the next one you go to." 

[LadyChatts]

2 hours ago, bankerchick said:

 

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see any other way of interpreting the exact phrase, 'At the next immunity challenge you must say a secret phrase in front of the other players' to mean anything other than at the next immunity challenge you must say a secret phrase in front of the other players.  There are no qualifiers about 'in order to activate the idol' or 'if you want to activate the idol' or 'it doesn't count if you do it anywhere else.'  If it's not in the note, how can the players assume it means anything other than exactly what it says?  I think it's more likely that Mike will find himself penalized for not saying the phrase, but Jeff can't do anything about it right now because there are two other clues out there.  I guess we can agree to disagree, but will have to wait until the time comes to find out.

This is what's throwing me off.  If it says "next", I'd take it to mean I have to say at the next immunity challenge.  Wasn't Daniel the one who talked Mike out of saying the phrase?  It'd be kind of funny if that ends up costing Mike an idol, especially now that MaryAnne found her clue. 

I'm going to assume this was something production didn't expect, so they may not know what to do.  If blue finds their idol next episode and Mike still doesn't say the phrase, I think he should get some kind of penalty.   

[PhoneCop]

9 hours ago, Tsunami1982 said:

Haven't seen much of Chanelle, but hoping I can add her to the few I'm pulling for this season. 

After last week? The only thing I want to see of Chanelle going forward is more completely un-self-aware interviews where she talks about her brilliant social game, followed by further avalanches of irony anvils.

[Taeolas]

It's probably one of those rules quirks that someone mentioned above. If Mike had explicitly ASKED if he had to say it at the next Immunity Challenge, then production would have had to say "Yes" and that would be it. 

But because he didn't ask and he didn't say the phrase then, then production is probably going to let it slide. Especially because by NOT saying the phrase, Mike is already penalizing himself; he doesn't have a vote and he's not giving himself a chance to restore his vote. 

The obvious intent of the Tridol is that in order to activate it, the 3 phrases MUST be said at an Immunity Challenge in the presence of the other players. Until then, the holders of the "Advantage" have no vote. And if they go until merge with it inactive, the idol will activate anyways and they get their votes back. 

Maybe the producers had figured that "making them say these stupid phrases at each challenge would be fun", but now that they see the effects of self-penalizing yourself and NOT saying the phrase, they'll let that aspect of the Tridol fall; especially if no one specifically asked about it. 

[nlkm9]

4 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Years ago, Jeff said in an interview that players are always coming up with loopholes and if they just exploit the loophole, then he would allow it, but if they asked if they could do it beforehand, he'd say no. He said Colby in particular was always thinking about faster ways to do things, but the problem was he'd ask Jeff if it was okay so Jeff would say no. He was talking specifically about challenges, but I could see them adopting the same philosophy with respect to advantages.

I am so over all this. we all know that the powers that be try their darndest to place idols in the path of the folks they are rooting for, often very randomly. this beware idol is ridiculous. How about a season with no ridiculous advantages and no idols and see what happens. my only confusion is, so eseentially noone knows these idol holders have no vote? is what they some are disobeying the rules??