S06.E07: Taboo

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Kate is trying to be considerate and give him quality time with the kids.  

Nope. She’s being passive aggressive and guilting him for not being there.  Just as the fights are not about food, they’re not about grocery shopping. They are about her feeling abandoned and him not feeling appreciated. 

[Jax7917]

1 hour ago, screenaddict said:

I really struggled with teen Kate having to mother her mother. I know they want to play up the mother/daughter relationship, but I have too many girlfriends who were forced to be their mom's BFF because their moms didn't have any real friends. That's a lot of pressure on a teenager.

I wish Toby and Kate weren't going south. I almost feel like they're trying to make Toby be a jerk without going overboard - in the real world, I'm afraid Toby would make snide comments to Kate because he managed to lose weight and she's still big. Again, I suppose I know too many people who treat exercise and nutrition like a religion and become enthusiastic converts.

Last night was a fabulous episode. I'm going to miss this family when the show is finished.

Except I think a majority of the time, Kate is being the jerk, not Toby. She is choosing to take a major pay cut by staying home with the kids and volunteering/ working a couple of hours in the music school. So, Toby has to pick up the financial slack. I do understand that being home with your kids is extremely hard work, BELIEVE me , I know from personal experience. But that doesn't change the fact that someone has to work. And often if you are on one salary, the other person has to work a ton of hours to make up for the pay loss. It seems like she's so bitter about him having to have a full time job, and she rejects any input he has about his children. As he said, he's not an absentee dad, he is a working one. Kate has always come off as a brat to me , in both the younger years and adult years. Whether it's to her mom, Toby or doctors who think she shouldn't have risked a pregnancy being as obese as she is , she always finds something to blame others for and never takes accountability for anything. 

[pennben]

32 minutes ago, CdrJanny said:

 

1 hour ago, Leeds said:

My kids didn't have the opportunity to "only eat chicken tenders, french fries, hot dogs, etc".  Why not?  Because as the responsible adult, I did not have them in my house.  No tomato sauce either.  My children were not deprived, they didn't know to miss them, and as adults they maintain healthy weights.

Expand  

Bravo!  You said it better than I did!

I think parents who serve crap like chicken tenders, french fries, hot dogs, etc. to their children should be arrested for child abuse.  Preparing and serving nutrient-dense unprocessed clean food is tastier AND cheaper

 

Good thing you aren’t in charge then. There are a number of reasons this is all that is available for some responsible parents. Many children grow up in these households and do just fine. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by pennben

[screenaddict]

20 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

Except I think a majority of the time, Kate is being the jerk, not Toby. She is choosing to take a major pay cut by staying home with the kids and volunteering/ working a couple of hours in the music school. So, Toby has to pick up the financial slack. 

I agree with your sentiment. However, I also think the writers are trying Very Hard to make Toby look like a bad-ish guy. They could easily make him into the very bad guy by having him reject Kate after he lost the weight, but they didn't. Instead, they're shoehorning him into the role of being the kind of bad guy. I can't figure out where they're going with this story line, but I'm afraid it's going to be the one storyline that I find unfulfilling as we wrap up the season.

 

 

[Blakeston]

I don't think Miguel was lying about the job offer in Houston. Marguerite making the "Houston, we have a problem" gags makes more sense if he was already thinking of moving there.

 

[screenaddict]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Hailey doesn’t share their genes. Certainly they are concerned with what she eats but not as a hereditary issue. 

All they have to do is check out the flash forwards and see that Jack grew into a normal sized young man. :)

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

If someone only indulged on holidays, that would not lead to obesity, however, treating certain foods as "special" and "treats" and that it's a "reward," sets one up for thinking some foods are more desirable that others. 

I disagree. It is something that you can do with education about why that particular food is not something we should have all the time because some things are just really good to eat, with zero nutritional value.

That's by design. Like salt, for example. Why do so many people have problems related to high sodium (salt), heart disease? Because the food industry adds salt to everything and humans, like all animals, naturally seek salt. The more they add, the more we think we need it, so we add more and more (if you eat peanut butter, most likely there is added salt, for preservation). This happens with all the other "bad" stuff found in food, everything that is highly processed, high fructose corn syrup instead of suga, or too much sugar. All done to make sure we keep consuming.

Parents can try to develop a sense of nutrition in their kids but it is hard to completely isolate from the "temptations" so the "treats" and "special", with education, don't necessarily lead to craving or the false idea that some foods are more desirable (although sometimes comfort food can be highly desirable, despite highly crappy)

[tennisgurl]

Beth is back! "Lovely people. Cried a lot. Dramatic as hell Thanksgivings." 

Oh show, just when I think I'm out, you pull me back in! Well, obviously I know I am never going to be out until the shows last credit roles at this point, but this was finally a really good episode that really felt important as we head closer to the end of the series. Mandy just killed me, she is absolutely nailing every bit of this heartbreaking story, I am crossing my fingers for an Emmy nomination at the very least. That last scene where she laid down the law about her treatment was incredible. 

Rebecca telling the kids in no uncertain terms who will be in charge of her treatment if Miguel cant do it was a really good idea, she made the right call. Kate is responsible and trustworthy and while I can totally see Kevin and Randall (especially Randall) trying to bulldoze in, I think that the boys can mostly let Kate be in charge. No way could she pick either Kevin or Randall, the two of them are eternally jockeying for position as the man of the house and the last time they conflicted about Rebecca's medical care they fell out for months. If there was even ambiguity about who should be in charge it would be a total mess, especially on top of all the other emotions that will be growing even stronger. 

You can really see those cracks growing between Kate and Toby, and its rough because you can see that they both have some points. Kate isn't wrong that she is the one doing most of the work with the kids so its frustrating when Toby shows up to criticize her choices, but Toby isn't wrong that its unfair of Kate to treat him like a deadbeat dad who has no right to opinions about his kids. With this particular issues I'm on Kate's side though, just let the kid have some sweets, its Thanksgiving! The key is moderation, the kids should be allowed to have sweets just not to overdue it, build a healthy relationship to food where its not something to obsess over as something to overindulge in or be afraid of. Really, they shouldn't have been having this conversation over dinner at all, this is something to bring up in private where Kevin cant use it as fodder for his depressing songs as the dinner gets more and more awkward.

Are we really not talking at all about Deja dropping out of school to be closer to her boyfriend anymore? Especially now that it looks like there is already trouble in paradise?

Edited March 9, 2022 by tennisgurl

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Candied sweet potatoes/yams are a Thanksgiving tradition for many people.

Could someone please explain to me why that is? I didn't grow up in the US, and sweet potatoes/yams in any form weren't a part of my diet before I moved here. After discovering them here, I started eating them on a regular basis, but I find them to be plenty sweet on their own and can't imagine adding more sweetness to them. I like to eat them baked, with beans and/or greens and/or non-starchy vegetables like broccoli. I need something neutral or even slightly bitter to offset the sweetness.

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Remember, Toby lost his weight because of Crossfit.  We know he changed gyms after his emotional affair with Kara, that does not mean that he gave Crossfit up.

Toby lost weight (and kept it off) because he overhauled his diet. Crossfit just helped him get in better shape, and he found a community there which helped him hold himself accountable. I think his concerns are valid and he and Kate should be communicating much more about their parenting preferences. Just not in the form of passive-aggressive jabs during a family holiday celebration.

[Trillian]

4 hours ago, kili said:

I don't really get having secret ingredients. If somebody says "That pie is delicious! Can I get the recipe?", what kind of psychopath gives them a partial recipe? Unless you are in the business of selling sugar pie, what does it hurt to give out the actual recipe? You could say "no", but even that is a little strange after receiving the compliment. But, at least it's honest. Leaving out ingredients leaves the poor recipient wondering why it doesn't taste right and endlessly trying to figure out what is wrong. Why are you inviting people to dinner who you dislike enough to do this to?

I guess you get to lord it over your friends and family that you are the bestest cook and you do you if you need that constant ego boost.
 

My ex mother-in-law did a version of that to me with her son’s favourite cookie recipe. I kept asking her for the recipe & she finally - but very grudgingly - gave it to me when she ran out of excuses not to.   I couldn’t get them right, though, and she resisted all my attempts to watch her make them (would whip up a batch when I was talking to FIL, for example.  “Oh dear, I forgot you wanted to watch me”). Finally, I showed the recipe to a friend who was a good baker and she figured out that the recipe had doubled the leavening agent and left out something else (can’t remember exactly what now).

Totally passive aggressive move, just like Rebecca’s mom. Why Rebecca would do the same thing is just out of character.

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I don’t know how we got to all or nothing with Toby.  He wasn’t making Jack go keto; he just scraped off most of the marshmallows and was giving him the sweet potato.  Kate was holding a huge big spoon filled with batter that morning.  He didn’t get upset that Jack had any of it, just questioned how much.  Again, he said he wanted to go shopping as a family on the weekends and she declined.  If this is Toby being a jerk, I’m not seeing it.

I’m not seeing it either. I’d have a hard time watching my morbidly obese spouse feed my kid copious amounts of sugar too, holiday or no holiday.  He shouldn’t have raised it at an extended family dinner, though.

1 hour ago, Lovecat said:

According to Sheldon Cooper's mom, it's LARD.

I tend to agree with Mary Cooper. Unhealthy as hell, but it makes all the difference to so many baked goods. They’ll die young, but their love will be true.  

[Aloeonatable]

This was a good episode. It wove the past and present beautifully. It also hinted at upcoming stories: the Deja and Maleek relationship; the beginning of Randall's "rising star" as possible senator or member of congress; and Rebecca's feelings for Miguel and inevitable mental decline. 

So Miguel was scared away by Kevin's saying that Jack would be "turning in his grave" if he knew that Rebecca and Miguel were in love. Understandable that Miguel would be put off, and answered our question as to why it took so long for them to reconnect. 

We also are seeing the real beginning of the end for Toby and Kate. 

My children ate a variety of foods growing up and have maintained healthy and slim bodies even into their late 40s. Genetics. 

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, PepSinger said:

To each their own. Personally, if my child’s pediatrician told me that, I’d find another pediatrician because our values do not align.

Same here, especially with a 2 year old child. They may be experiencing food intolerances that they can't articulate.

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

*ETA: There is no need for additional sugar in any kind of cereal. Kate may have thought the cereal was healthy and perhaps it was healthier than a heavily sugared cereal, but for a young toddler, I wouldn't be giving a cereal that had any refined sugar in it. There's no need for it. Most toddlers love plain Cheerios anyway.  

I was coming here to say this. People develop tolerances to sugar and salt (as @circumvent said) and the more you get, the higher the level of craving. Children have millions of more taste buds than adults (because they die off) so there is no need to tempt them with extra sugar as Kate did.

[debraran]

I was surprised they didn’t show Rebecca’s mom as super thin. She wasn’t heavy but didn’t look like she starved herself. I saw many rich women at my old job that were size 6 or so their whole lives. 
I don’t think they ever addressed why Kate never worked through her weight issues even happy with hubby and 2 kids. They made her depressed in 20s but later? Maybe that was the open door with Chrissy and any change she made or didn’t make. 

[Ohiopirate02]

33 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Could someone please explain to me why that is? I didn't grow up in the US, and sweet potatoes/yams in any form weren't a part of my diet before I moved here. After discovering them here, I started eating them on a regular basis, but I find them to be plenty sweet on their own and can't imagine adding more sweetness to them. I like to eat them baked, with beans and/or greens and/or non-starchy vegetables like broccoli. I need something neutral or even slightly bitter to offset the sweetness.

Candy yams is sweet potatoes cooked with butter, sugar and marshmallows on top.  The level of sweetness varies by family.  In my family we forgo the marshmallows, and add the butter with brown sugar at the end.  If we are feeling fancy, we add pecans with the butter and brown sugar.

Candy yams are a lot like green beam casserole, a mid-century recipe created by a corporation to make white women spend extra money on ingredients we don't need.  We continue to cook them for nostalgic reasons, and not because they are good or great recipes that really showcase the ingredients.   This does not always apply to black families.  

[Empress1]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Candy yams are a lot like green beam casserole, a mid-century recipe created by a corporation to make white women spend extra money on ingredients we don't need.  We continue to cook them for nostalgic reasons, and not because they are good or great recipes that really showcase the ingredients.   This does not always apply to black families.  

Candied sweet potatoes, with or without marshmallows (depending on who made them), appear at all my Black family’s Thanksgiving dinners. Sweet potatoes are a part of soul food cooking (sweet potato pie is like the go-to Black dessert) and a lot of cooking that comes out of the African diaspora uses yams. However, I have never in my life seen a green bean casserole in person. I only have a vague idea of what goes in it and it doesn’t sound appetizing to me.

[tennisgurl]

It makes me so sad that Miguel took what Kevin said about Jack to heart, its probably something he has been thinking to himself for awhile. I am sure that Jack would have been thrilled at Miguel and Rebecca getting together, he knows Miguel is a good guy who will always treat Rebecca right and he would probably be relieved they had each other to turn to in their grief.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Candied sweet potatoes, with or without marshmallows (depending on who made them), appear at all my Black family’s Thanksgiving dinners. Sweet potatoes are a part of soul food cooking (sweet potato pie is like the go-to Black dessert) and a lot of cooking that comes out of the African diaspora uses yams. However, I have never in my life seen a green bean casserole in person. I only have a vague idea of what goes in it and it doesn’t sound appetizing to me.

I did try to qualify my comment about white families because I am aware Black families have their own history and traditions with food.  And a lot of Black food has made it's way into white American households over the years.  One of those ways (and I suspect this is the case for the Malone family) was corporations stealing Black recipes and selling a sanitized version to white women.  This was done through paid articles in the various women's magazines of the time.  

Green bean casserole was developed by Campbell's Soup and they marketed heavily to get it into enough homes to make it a Thanksgiving staple.  

[cardigirl]

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

Jack could have just gained the Rebecca/Kevin genes.  He does look alot like Kevin and Kevin and Kate are twins. So.... Plus meat doesn't make you fat. That is why alot of people go on keto diets that are protein high and carb low.

If your intake is too high of anything, you'll gain weight. Keto advocates are eating lots of protein, yes, but unless they are actively using the energy through exercise, the body will use what it needs and turn the excess to fat. Many people on keto are also reducing overall calorie intake and that is what results in weight loss. 

When I was training 5-6 days a week, my intake was 55%-60% carbs, 15% protein, and 15% fat. I gained muscle and lost body fat just fine, because I was burning the calories and I needed the carbs (good carbs) for energy. 

 

 

 

[marceline]

A lot to unpack in this episode but first and foremost, I have to acknowledge the public service this episode did by showing the Pearsons having the really tough conversations about the future. COVID has really shown us how important those conversations are.

I can understand Rebecca choosing Kate. Randall and Kevin already tore the family apart once because they disagreed on what was right for Rebecca. The family can't handle that again. Kevin is already feeling superior because he's building the house and Randall can't stop micromanaging.

I kind of wish we didn't know that Kate and Toby split up because now I just see them as doomed since we know what happens and how Jack's accident blows up their marriage. I think Kate and Toby each have legitimate feelings about growing up fat. Both are making reasonable arguments. The scenes I hated the most were Rebecca and Kate both "spite eating" as retaliation for the judgment they felt. Rebecca from her mom and Kate from Randall. Those scenes were heartbreaking because they showed just how damaging well-meaning friends and family can be. Also, I can't help but remember how a few weeks ago we were talking about how Kate's weight didn't get addressed anymore. Well, they were just waiting for Thanksgiving.

Beth: "Every year with this family." Beth speaks for the audience.

The Rebecca/Miguel game scene went on way too long.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I was surprised they didn’t show Rebecca’s mom as super thin. She wasn’t heavy but didn’t look like she starved herself. I saw many rich women at my old job that were size 6 or so their whole lives. 

Some people will never be thin even if they're very diligent with their diets. Rebecca's mother may have been so diligent *because* she doesn't naturally have the dainty frame that was considered ideal in the '50s. And young Rebecca also wasn't slim and dainty, so her mother probably thought she was doing Rebecca a favor by restricting her food early on as a preventative measure.

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, CdrJanny said:

And just when do you think obese children eat sugary, fatty food, if not at holidays?  Adults are able to choose  "to treat and indulge themselves", toddlers not at all.  As someone who has been fat and even obese for all of my 68 years (except for the 22 years I was in the Navy), I agree 100% with Toby.  I was glad he scraped off the marshmallow; it was unnecessary and added absolutely nothing to the sweet potatoes.

Yep. 

I know nobody ever got fat just by eating sugary foods at holidays, but that's where my brain learned about the heavenly surge of dopamine it gets from pie and candy.  My mother did not have junk food around at all, but she baked for the holidays and all the traditions of candy, pie and cookies were properly met. Limited to the holidays, I stayed skinny until I had money of my own, after that I might as well have been Kate eating whole bags of donuts. 

Sugar is the only food I ever had trouble with, no amount of fat, hamburger or other high calorie foods ever led me to overeat.  Here's an example:  I gave up sugar on New Years day this year and lost 13 pound the first month.  That just shows you what proportion of my calories was sugar.

Jack may grow up to be one of those amazing, "all things in moderation" people, but Toby thinks he might be programed to be more like me, "All good things in excess." Jack will get sugar at school and on Halloween, there's no reason to teach him at home that you can't have fun without it.

[One Imaginary Girl]

I thought that Kate and Toby's arguments over food this Thanksgiving were just a proxy war for deeper problems they're having.   One or the other would have just let things go temporarily and discussed the matter privately after they got home or at least not in front of everyone--or maybe that's what I'd prefer.

[Jax7917]

I see much more chemistry with Rebecca and Miguel than I ever saw with her and Jack . Just me ?

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

I see much more chemistry with Rebecca and Miguel than I ever saw with her and Jack . Just me ?

That's because Miguel treats Rebecca like an equal while Jack placed Rebecca on a pedestal.  

[CountryGirl]

12 minutes ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

I thought that Kate and Toby's arguments over food this Thanksgiving were just a proxy war for deeper problems they're having.   One or the other would have just let things go temporarily and discussed the matter privately after they got home or at least not in front of everyone--or maybe that's what I'd prefer.

Yep. It's not about the pasta. Ahem, the sweet potatoes.

2 hours ago, Aloeonatable said:

So Miguel was scared away by Kevin's saying that Jack would be "turning in his grave" if he knew that Rebecca and Miguel were in love. Understandable that Miguel would be put off, and answered our question as to why it took so long for them to reconnect. 

Except Jack was cremated and sprinkled in a park so he can't really turn in his grave now, can he, Kev?

I should probably see myself out now.

[Gemma Violet]

2 hours ago, Trillian said:

I don't really get having secret ingredients. If somebody says "That pie is delicious! Can I get the recipe?", what kind of psychopath gives them a partial recipe?

 

2 hours ago, Trillian said:

My ex mother-in-law did a version of that to me with her son’s favourite cookie recipe. I kept asking her for the recipe & she finally - but very grudgingly - gave it to me when she ran out of excuses not to.   I couldn’t get them right, though, and she resisted all my attempts to watch her make them (would whip up a batch when I was talking to FIL, for example.  “Oh dear, I forgot you wanted to watch me”). Finally, I showed the recipe to a friend who was a good baker and she figured out that the recipe had doubled the leavening agent and left out something else (can’t remember exactly what now).

Shades of Marie Barone.  (Everybody Loves Raymond fans will get that.)

[CountryGirl]

This really did feel like the TIU of old, even though I have loved much of the season thus far.

One of the stand-out scenes for the entire series for me was this one, with MVP Mandy Moore's Rebecca:

As someone with elderly parents and MIL, I could so appreciate this. So much of my life and my husband's of late are helping to care for our aging parents, which, of course, we love them and want to help them. But yes, there is that part of us that feels as if our lives are on hold because of those obligations. And we, too, are getting older as well.

[Sake614]

4 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

This really did feel like the TIU of old, even though I have loved much of the season thus far.

One of the stand-out scenes for the entire series for me was this one, with MVP Mandy Moore's Rebecca:

As someone with elderly parents and MIL, I could so appreciate this. So much of my life and my husband's of late are helping to care for our aging parents, which, of course, we love them and want to help them. But yes, there is that part of us that feels as if our lives are on hold because of those obligations. And we, too, are getting older as well.

I made the mistake of watching the show just before sitting down to work this morning. And I just completely lost it at this scene. Needless to say, I was very glad I didn’t have any video calls until later so no one could tell I’d been crying Lol! Like you, I’m caring for my elderly mother these days. She has live in help but I still have to make all the decisions about her care. I’m not married, my eldest brother who lives in the same city is completely useless and my middle brother who would help if he could, lives halfway across the country. So it all falls on me.
 

I know my mom doesn’t want me giving up my life for her. But she ‘is’ my life, or at least a huge part of it. That’s not to say I don’t see friends when I can. But it’s hard. So yeah, that really hit home. And I’m not a kid either. 

[chocolatine]

54 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Jack may grow up to be one of those amazing, "all things in moderation" people, but Toby thinks he might be programed to be more like me, "All good things in excess." Jack will get sugar at school and on Halloween, there's no reason to teach him at home that you can't have fun without it.

There's also the immediate issue that giving a toddler too much sugar, special occasion or not, makes them very difficult to handle that day. Toby said as much when he was trying to get Jack to settle into the stroller for a walk. A couple of episodes ago, Kate gave Toby a hard time for not putting Jack down for his afternoon nap and Jack being cranky as a result. There's an unhealthy one-upmanship going on between them about who is the more responsible parent.

[marceline]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Could someone please explain to me why that is? I didn't grow up in the US, and sweet potatoes/yams in any form weren't a part of my diet before I moved here.

Sweet potatoes were native to the U.S. and easy to grow esp. in the south. Much like corn it just became a staple of the American diet for lots of people. My mom is from Mississippi and sweet potatoes were a staple of my upbringing. Sometimes baked, sometimes panfried in a little butter and/or bacon grease....aaand now I want some sweet potato fries.

[CountryGirl]

Those moments on the porch between Miguel and Kevin were truly moving. Kevin has come a long way from the surly teen/twenty-something he was (and yes, that showed up from time to time in his 30s). It's nice to see him showing respect and affection towards the man who has stood by his mother's side so long.

[chocolatine]

4 minutes ago, marceline said:

Sweet potatoes were native to the U.S. and easy to grow esp. in the south. Much like corn it just became a staple of the American diet for lots of people.

That part I understand. I just don't understand why the traditional holiday dishes add even more sweetness to something that's already very sweet by nature. I understand adding sugar to sweet potato pie, because it's a dessert, but I don't understand adding marshmallows to a casserole that's not a dessert.

Edited March 9, 2022 by chocolatine

[CountryGirl]

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

That part I understand. I just don't understand why the traditional holiday dishes add even more sweetness to something that's already very sweet by nature. I understand adding sugar to sweet potato pie, because it's a dessert, but I don't understand adding marshmallows to a casserole that's not a dessert.

[marceline]

9 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

That part I understand. I just don't understand why the traditional holiday dishes add even more sweetness to something that's already very sweet by nature. I understand adding sugar to sweet potato pie, because it's a dessert, but I don't understand adding marshmallows to a casserole that's not a dessert.

Oh that's just America. If we can fry it or sweeten it, we will. 😀 

We don't do marshmallows in my extended family so I'll leave that for the marshmallow enthusiasts. A family friend who does a yearly thanksgiving open house serves hers as more of a sweet potato mousse but with a sweet, crunchy browned topping.

The only thing in my neck of the woods that causes more debate is macaroni and cheese.

Edited March 9, 2022 by marceline

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

That part I understand. I just don't understand why the traditional holiday dishes add even more sweetness to something that's already very sweet by nature. I understand adding sugar to sweet potato pie, because it's a dessert, but I don't understand adding marshmallows to a casserole that's not a dessert.

I Googled it and found this--

The First Recipe For Sweet Potato Casserole

The first time sweet potatoes and marshmallows are mentioned together is in 1917, in a recipe booklet published by the Angelus Marshmallow company. In an effort to sell more marshmallows, the company hired Janet McKenzie Hill, founder of the Boston Cooking School magazine, to develop recipes using marshmallows. The booklet contained the recipe for “mashed sweet potatoes baked with a marshmallow topping.” 

https://science.unctv.org/content/reportersblog/sweet-potato-casserole-origin

This is leaving out the African American influence on the use of sweet potatoes in American cuisine, so there is more to the story.  But this would track as to how sweet potato casserole ended up as a Thanksgiving staple for a WASPy family like the Malones.   

[marceline]

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I Googled it and found this--

The First Recipe For Sweet Potato Casserole

The first time sweet potatoes and marshmallows are mentioned together is in 1917, in a recipe booklet published by the Angelus Marshmallow company. In an effort to sell more marshmallows, the company hired Janet McKenzie Hill, founder of the Boston Cooking School magazine, to develop recipes using marshmallows. The booklet contained the recipe for “mashed sweet potatoes baked with a marshmallow topping.” 

https://science.unctv.org/content/reportersblog/sweet-potato-casserole-origin

This is leaving out the African American influence on the use of sweet potatoes in American cuisine, so there is more to the story.  But this would track as to how sweet potato casserole ended up as a Thanksgiving staple for a WASPy family like the Malones.   

Ahh, that explains it. The marshmallows made the dish "fancy."

[PRgal]

I have never in my life (until last night) heard of sugar pie.  Is it a regional thing?  Thanksgiving here in Canada means pumpkin or apple (we’re an apple household).  

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, PRgal said:

I have never in my life (until last night) heard of sugar pie.  Is it a regional thing?  Thanksgiving here in Canada means pumpkin or apple (we’re an apple household).  

It's a common enough recipe that I was able to get multiple results on Google, but not one that I have heard about as a Thanksgiving dessert.  My family eats pumpkin or sweet potato pie and apple pie.  Southerners might also do a pecan pie.  It doesn't strike me as a Pittsburgh dessert.  

[Crs97]

When I was growing up the sweet potatoes were those gloopy sugary clumps from the can.  Even marshmallows wouldn’t tempt me to eat them.  I was surprised as an adult to discover I love them!

[Empress1]

4 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

When I was growing up the sweet potatoes were those gloopy sugary clumps from the can.  Even marshmallows wouldn’t tempt me to eat them.  I was surprised as an adult to discover I love them!

I knew a guy who thought he didn’t like a lot of stuff and then he left home and realized his mother just couldn’t cook. The first time he had fresh green beans instead of canned, he said it blew his mind.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

That's because Miguel treats Rebecca like an equal while Jack placed Rebecca on a pedestal.  

Or thought of her as just the wife and mom to cook,make costumes last minute etc. He loved her but I don't think Miguel would ever make a decision for her. They seem equals.

Edited March 9, 2022 by debraran

[Blackie]

I'm glad that Rebecca had the meeting with the kids to share her choices for care. It makes sense for her to pick Kate for lots of reasons.

My MIL picked her daughter, or so we were told many times by said daughter. Unfortunately she never sat down with her 2 sons to share the info. Not that they would have argued , neither one wanted to be the primary care giver but it would have been nice if we had the info about the diagnosis and prognosis so we would have known better when we could help out. Instead we were made to feel guilty when we weren't there and made to feel that we were "taking over" when we were trying to offer what help we could. A lot of my MIL's friends were being shut out and I didn't know if this is really what she wanted or if the daughter was just doing it. It was all a very confusing time and as the DIL, I was pretty much the outsider even though the person most educated in medical issues. I realize now the best gift you can give your kids is information, make your decisions but give the info out equally.

[debraran]

18 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I knew a guy who thought he didn’t like a lot of stuff and then he left home and realized his mother just couldn’t cook. The first time he had fresh green beans instead of canned, he said it blew his mind.

I hear that a lot. I thought I disliked meatloaf and some steak, but it was either too bland or overcooked. Same with some veggies. I was never forced to eat anything so no issues but liked salad in my 20's when I realized it was more than iceburg. ; ) Pasta and sauce though she had down better than many restaurants.

[debraran]

38 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I have never in my life (until last night) heard of sugar pie.  Is it a regional thing?  Thanksgiving here in Canada means pumpkin or apple (we’re an apple household).  

I found this but don't know if it's helpful

https://whatscookingamerica.net/history/piehistory/sugarcreampie.htm

[GeorgiaRai]

I again find myself on Team Toby.  Who'd have thought? 

I was a pretty lax parent myself (they all survived & I'm a grandma now!) but I can certainly understand removing marshmallows from a toddler's dinner plate.  There would be sweets & treats galore for holiday dessert, so I doubt Baby Jack was being deprived.  And Toby didn't make a scene or even a comment; Kate confronting him mid-feast was all sorts of wrong.  Even worse was Kevin's "take off the hat" - so needlessly obnoxious and rude.

I think I'm ready for a spin-off with just the in-laws.

[Blackie]

45 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I have never in my life (until last night) heard of sugar pie.  Is it a regional thing?  Thanksgiving here in Canada means pumpkin or apple (we’re an apple household).  

 

I have a secret family recipe for carrot pie. Its not all the secret, it was just a sort of half recipe from my grandma (Canadian prairies)  that wasn't very clear so I have been working for years to perfect it. My family likes it better than pumpkin. Apple is very good too, esp with Spy apples.

I didn't really like the Rebecca/mother story. Not very original. How many shows have I seen about the daughter/mother fights?

2 minutes ago, GeorgiaRai said:

Even worse was Kevin's "take off the hat" - so needlessly obnoxious and rude.

 and then they didn't really follow-up what happened after that. I mean that would probably be the end of the dinner I would think.

[CountryGirl]

As for Toby and Kate, while I'm not exactly Team Kate, I am certainly not Team Toby.

Him snitting that he was supporting his family, not having parties,  so he wasn’t a dead beat made me more than a bit annoyed. Where did anyone, Kate included, ever say that? He isn't there every day and even when he is in LA, we've seen that he is heavily attached to work. Those are the facts.  Also, maybe don't use the "party" reference, Toby, considering how he chose to forego time with the family for the yacht party with his work crew. 

He also didn't need to be a dick to Kevin either with his dig about him being a "man-child." A man-child who is there to support his sister and help her with the kids. Should Kevin get his own place? Of course. As that would certainly help his cause with getting shared custody of the twins. But Toby is attacking Kevin because he's mad at Kate, who is clearly fine with him staying there for the time being with Toby being away so much. And for him, knowing Kate's struggles with food and her weight and self-esteem, I mean, they met at at a weight loss group meeting FFS, to think that Kate would be constantly feeding Jack and Hailey shitty food is all kinds of wrong. 

We also know that adult Jack is clearly thin, so simmer, Toby. I think he's just pissy about her calling him out on skipping nap time with the kids and having to pay the price in the evening. It is not the same thing as Kate letting Jack have a tiny taste of the sugar pie filling or that barely-there bit of marshmallow fluff. And resorting to tit for tat is dangerous territory for a marriage. I agree that this is really just smoke and mirrors for the deeper issues in their marriage.

Speaking of dickish behavior, younger Kevin and Randall were so out of line with how they reacted to Kate gaining weight. 

[wonderwoman]

4 hours ago, Trillian said:

My ex mother-in-law did a version of that to me with her son’s favourite cookie recipe. I kept asking her for the recipe & she finally - but very grudgingly - gave it to me when she ran out of excuses not to.   I couldn’t get them right, though, and she resisted all my attempts to watch her make them (would whip up a batch when I was talking to FIL, for example.  “Oh dear, I forgot you wanted to watch me”). Finally, I showed the recipe to a friend who was a good baker and she figured out that the recipe had doubled the leavening agent and left out something else (can’t remember exactly what now).

Totally passive aggressive move, just like Rebecca’s mom. Why Rebecca would do the same thing is just out of character.

there’s a funny episode of ‘everyone loves raymond’ where marie does the same thing to deba. shares her spices, but jar labeled basil actually contained tarragon. of course, had debra been more of a cook she would have seen and smelled the switch, but still.

[pennben]

21 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

We also know that adult Jack is clearly thin, so simmer, Toby

That we know he is skinny doesn’t mean we know he doesn’t have issues with food. Especially given we see his parents fight over food issues, even though that seems like code for their real relationship issues. 

[Empress1]

8 minutes ago, Blackie said:

I'm glad that Rebecca had the meeting with the kids to share her choices for care.

Me too. I am the proxy for my mom and was for my dad. (Responsible oldest daughter.) We discussed it. Well, really, they each told me that's what they wanted. It wasn't much of a conversation. But you have to have those conversations. I had to make decisions for my dad.

I cried when Rebecca said things were going to be harder on them than her and she hated that for them, and she was tearing up. And I liked the way she was basically like "Nobody is going to have time for your bullshit when I'm dying. Get it together and do what I say." But nicer.

That look between Jack and Rebecca's dad when Rebecca's mom and Rebecca turned on Jack was really funny. "How did we get here?"