S04.E11: Piece Of Cake

[Suzn]

I think an adult should have stayed with Katherine.  The logical one would have been her mother who apparently was not notified.

I still think there was something icky about Theo getting in bed with her.

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

I think an adult should have stayed with Katherine.  The logical one would have been her mother who apparently was not notified.

I still think there was something icky about Theo getting in bed with her.

I don't agree with the situation of letting Theo get in bed with Katherine because it may lead to Theo not learning the boundaries he needs to learn in life.  Also, it just reinforces him being a mama's boy, which he most surely will be if he sleeps with mommy at 12 years old.  Katherine needed to assure Theo that she would be fine, that the heart monitor is just to wear because it records data the doctors need, and not have her son be her caretaker just in case something happens to her in the middle of the night.  Katherine should have called an adult to stay with her whether it be her mother, Eddie, or even Greta (although it's too soon to introduce her into Theo's life as a mainstay at this point of trauma).

Theo needs to learn proper and healthy boundaries, not be mollycoddled "just this once."

[marceline]

I'm in my 50s and when my mom was recovering from surgery I didn't want to leave her side. The writing for Theo is a hot bowl of ass but I understand the impulse. He just came face-to-face with the concept of his mom's mortality. He's going to want to be near her for a while until the memory fades a bit. That being said I agree that there should've been someone staying in the house with them. All of these emotional invalids joined at the hip and not one could be bothered to spend the night? They were all willing to sit in the hospital for hours being useless but when they actually have a chance to be helpful its crickets.

[circumvent]

29 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

it may lead to Theo not learning the boundaries he needs to learn in life.  Also, it just reinforces him being a mama's boy, which he most surely will be if he sleeps with mommy at 12 years old. 

He is already a mama's boy, and he is not a kid who "sleeps with mommy at 12 years old". Like some have said, it was a traumatic experience for him, he is alone with his mom  - which should not be alone with a kid at all, after a fall - and he feels like he needs to be by her side to make sure she is ok. Nothing creepy about that, actually, that's exactly what you want a tween or teenager to be: caring. He is emotionally immature, but in his immaturity he wanted to protect his mother, not being protected by her, even if he did't articulated in this way. It would be out of character, so for once the writers did get it right with the character. The rest of his reactions to the event, while understandable considering the trauma, was more appropriate for a younger kid. Asking to spend the night close to the person he most cherishes in the world, after he thought she could die at any moment is completely acceptable.

As for bounderies, show me one example of anyone who has ever learnt boundaries during a crisis or emotional trauma. Those moments are one time that we can, do, and are expected to, lose all rationality and control. We learn nothing at that moment. Kids are specially vulnerable. That's why kids and even teens who are sexually abused might wet the bed when reliving the trauma, even in their heads. It is not "appropriate" for a 10 year-old to wet the bed. Yet, they do if that's how they cope with the trauma. There are so many examples. PTSD  follows the same logic. Adults sucking their thumbs because it is the only thing that makes them calm enough to be able to sleep.

[cinsays]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

For me, as cringy as it was, it seemed kind of okay. It seems to me  any child who was traumatized seeing their mother unconscious and bloody on the floor (even a teenager), and then is left alone with her while she's wearing a monitoring device, might just want to sleep with her so that they can be there if something goes wrong. If an adult had been there, maybe he wouldn't feel that need. I'm no fan of they way they write Theo, but it makes sense to me.

I was afraid I was the only one feeling that it was ok and a good idea to stick close to his mom under the circumstances.

[Rootbeer]

3 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

For me, as cringy as it was, it seemed kind of okay. It seems to me  any child who was traumatized seeing their mother unconscious and bloody on the floor (even a teenager), and then is left alone with her while she's wearing a monitoring device, might just want to sleep with her so that they can be there if something goes wrong. If an adult had been there, maybe he wouldn't feel that need. I'm no fan of they way they write Theo, but it makes sense to me.

Sadly, that's true. I revise my statement to say that he'd try very hard, being such a good boy.

I think most 12 year olds, boys or girls, would want to stay close by and monitor their mother, especially when there is not another adult around.  However, I think it would be much more believable if Theo had marched into Katharine's room, sleeping bag under his arm, and announced that he was going to spend the night with her because she needed him to take care of her and spread it out on the floor and crawled in.  Then again, this is a kid who, at age 11, wanted 'cuddles' from his parents and seemed at a loss for what to do when his mother passed out.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, Rootbeer said:

I think most 12 year olds, boys or girls, would want to stay close by and monitor their mother, especially when there is not another adult around.  However, I think it would be much more believable if Theo had marched into Katharine's room, sleeping bag under his arm, and announced that he was going to spend the night with her because she needed him to take care of her and spread it out on the floor and crawled in.  Then again, this is a kid who, at age 11, wanted 'cuddles' from his parents and seemed at a loss for what to do when his mother passed out.

I wouldn't have had a problem with that.  That would be very different and far more mature than him getting in bed with her.  But as I've said, there should have been an adult to stay with Katherine - her mother or one of the herd of people hanging out for hours in the waiting room.

[tinderbox]

It wasn’t necessarily what Greta said, though it should have been unnecessary, it was HOW she gave Theo instructions on calling 911.  She treated him like he was just out of diapers.

Gary and Maggie.  Pffff…. I can’t stomach either one of them, together  or apart.

This show isn’t what it used to be.  Yes, I said the same thing after the last episode.  I know. 
 

[historylover820]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Theo, but I didn't find him wanting to sleep with Katherine wrong. He is traumatized, and I'm not making fun of that. He saw his mother unconscious and wearing a heart monitor. And no adult in sight. What if something happened again? And I even understand the need to actually be in bed with her, because what if something happened and he's on the floor in a sleeping bag?

I also didn't mind him in the hospital and felt sorry for him. Just sitting by himself in the waiting room until his dad came? That would be traumatic in and of itself. Then these idiots his parents call their best friends are just caught up in their own petty squabblings while his dad tries to find out if his mom is even alive? He already almost lost one parent fairly recently. (And I did laugh at his "That's why I stick with Snickers.")

Back in July, I found out that Mom had been keeping the fact that Dad had been sick from me. And he had been sick for months. I was so angry with her. Not only that, but about a week after Mom told me about Dad, we got his official diagnosis: Aggressive Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. He had to start chemo immediately. I live 4 hours away from my parents, and all I wanted to do was to go home and curl up next to my Dad. Hug him and never let him go. Maybe I'm a little bit of a Daddy's girl. And I'm 43 years old.

Now, I didn't do that. And Dad made it through chemo fine and he's doing good. He's not quite completely cancer-free--he still has his non-aggressive prostate cancer to start radiation with, and there could still be some spots on his lungs (both he and I told Mom that it's probably scars from his biopsy, and the doctors aren't too worried about his prostate cancer or the remaining spots.)

But, I understand Theo's impulse to be at his mother's side as much as he can. Now, if he continues sleeping in her bed and it's determined that whatever this is can be controlled through medication, there's an issue. But for that night, I don't see where there's a problem

[bybrandy]

 

11 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

  However, I think it would be much more believable if Theo had marched into Katharine's room, sleeping bag under his arm, and announced that he was going to spend the night with her because she needed him to take care of her and spread it out on the floor and crawled in.  

Talk about boundries issues.   I find Theo coming in to check on his mom and asking how she was and about her heart monitor is and if it was okay to stay with her for the night was way more respectful of peoples boundaries then charging in plan already decided with his sleeping bag and telling his mother how things were going to be.  Nope.  No way.  No how.  I would have to physically restrain tossing a kid out who declared my bedroom his campsite as opposed to one who has come in and had a conversation with me and then asked if it would be okay if they spent the night.   So much more respectful of my boundaries.   

And I think going in and speaking to Catherine and asking her questions to reassure him is absolutely 100% a better lesson then sitting alone in your room terrified trying to stay awake listening for any off sound or movement because you are too mature to go in and get the support you need.  

If Theo's still in Katherine's room next week then yes she needs to address that but 4 hours after trauma?  

By the way not only do I think that Eddie should have stayed so Theo didn't have the pressure of dealing with that all on his own, but I also think that probably she should have been admitted for overnight observation.  

[CrystalBlue]

11 hours ago, bybrandy said:

 

Talk about boundries issues.   I find Theo coming in to check on his mom and asking how she was and about her heart monitor is and if it was okay to stay with her for the night was way more respectful of peoples boundaries then charging in plan already decided with his sleeping bag and telling his mother how things were going to be.  Nope.  No way.  No how.  I would have to physically restrain tossing a kid out who declared my bedroom his campsite as opposed to one who has come in and had a conversation with me and then asked if it would be okay if they spent the night.   So much more respectful of my boundaries.   

And I think going in and speaking to Catherine and asking her questions to reassure him is absolutely 100% a better lesson then sitting alone in your room terrified trying to stay awake listening for any off sound or movement because you are too mature to go in and get the support you need.  

If Theo's still in Katherine's room next week then yes she needs to address that but 4 hours after trauma?  

By the way not only do I think that Eddie should have stayed so Theo didn't have the pressure of dealing with that all on his own, but I also think that probably she should have been admitted for overnight observation.  

I agree with your boundaries, but this is Theo we're talking about here.  LOL  One minute he's too *whatever* to know to call 9-1-1, the next he's questioning his mother about her "type" in response to her sexuality (he doesn't know about the gay/bi thing yet).

Theo pretty much runs the whole show at home which is probably why the OP proposed the marching in, not your scenario which would have been more appropriate.

I have suggested that Katherine, the mother, act like a mother and explain things to him in a manner in which he doesn't have to be worried about his mother.  Reassure him.

Yes, Eddie should have been tending to his own son After Trauma and be there for his ex-wife instead of being all interested in what Anne thinks at the moment.  Sort out your dating situation later.

[CarpeFelis]

On 3/10/2022 at 7:50 AM, Lovecat said:

Right?  I did crack up at the "I heard that, too" re: gluten.  I needed that laugh after screaming "HE'S TWELVE, NOT FOUR!!!" at the teevee when Greta asked him, "You know your address, right?"

I don’t fault Greta for that since he always comes across sounding like he’s around four! Seriously, do none of the writers have a clue how a 12-year-old would act? (Isn’t that roughly how old Danny was in season 1? They didn’t have him acting like Theo does.)

Poor Cam. Wait, what am I saying?! He deserves SO MUCH BETTER than that idiot Maggie! I still wish Gary and Maggie would go off to somewhere Far, Far Away and we could keep Cam on the show instead.

[CarpeFelis]

On 3/10/2022 at 4:07 PM, marceline said:

Cam's not dense. He's just an adult who is being honest about his feelings and thinks that Maggie is the same. Cam is a normal healthy person who thinks he's dating one person when the truth is he's dating a Sarlacc pit of codependant crackpots.

That said, I'm petty enough to hope that Cam finds a way to have Gary blacklisted from any and all Bruins games in perpetuity. That would serve him right after Cam was nice enough to introduce him to his teammates. In fact I want Gary to go to a game and have all those players he met look at him and demand he be removed by security. That would be delicious.

I’d enjoy the hell out of that!

Getting back to Theo for a moment… since the actor is almost 13 I can’t help imagining him reading the scripts and wondering what the hell the writers are thinking. Geez, did Eddie and Katherine keep him in a crib until he was 8, or what?

[maggiemae]

An adult should have been there for Katherine and Theo.

And I think Theo is aware, at 12, about gay/bi - hasn't he been brought up with the gang along with Danny for years? 

And he did ask about type...

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, maggiemae said:

An adult should have been there for Katherine and Theo.

And I think Theo is aware, at 12, about gay/bi - hasn't he been brought up with the gang along with Danny for years? 

And he did ask about type...

I meant that Theo doesn't yet know that his mother is now gay or bi because she hasn't had The Talk with him yet and Greta is just a friend at point in his mind.

[smartymarty]

Quote

I haven't had this experience with a loved one in that type of depression, but I wonder if telling them that everyone around them is going through it too is a good thing. From what I understand, is that thinking that others would be better off without them is one trigger for suicide.  Not that it wouldn't be difficult to be with someone who's suffering that much.

 

I've been living with depression for decades and I have to say Regina's comment sent a chill through me because I know how that sounds to someone on the edge. This show - for all its many, many, MANY faults - has been good at portraying the complexities around depression. I'm chalking Regina's comment up to bad scriptwriting.

I also have chronic depression and cringed at Regina's statement. Regina -- you complain about the burden to somebody else, not the depressed person!

So they were in the hospital at least until 2 a.m. Did Eddie then go back to Anne's? Like at 3 a.m.??? And while I like them together, I agree that cheated on wife, had baby that I'm okay with being in France, drug addict, and friend who beats up people, well, I'd be running.
 

Quote

I actually felt bad for Theo being scared at the hospital while all the adults were self-absorbed in their little world, except for Cam and Rome and the candy.

Maybe I'm a little too health conscious, but it bothered me that Rome and Regina's way of "helping" Theo was to buy him candy. How about reassuring him that, now that your mom is at the hospital, the good doctors will take care of her and fix whatever needs to be fixed? There are lots of minor things that could explain her fall. Just like they took care of your dad. (Okay, maybe not remind him that his father left the hospital in a wheelchair and then became addicted to drugs, but you get the idea.) Instead, it's like, sugar will distract you from everything! Cam at least engaged with Theo (and he probably assumed someone already talked with Theo about what was happening, so it wasn't his place to do so again).

[Trillian]

On 3/12/2022 at 4:16 PM, CrystalBlue said:

Yes, Eddie should have been tending to his own son After Trauma and be there for his ex-wife instead of being all interested in what Anne thinks at the moment.  Sort out your dating situation later.

I had to read that line in your post several times before I figured out that it referred to Theo - because I completely forgot that Eddie is Theo’s father (perhaps he would like to forget too?).   Caring enough to rush to the hospital, but then he left both Katherine and his own child with his friends while he went off to his girlfriend.  He should’ve been the one to offer to spend the night in the house, or at least take Theo with him with promises to return in the morning - after making sure someone else would escort Katherine home and stay with her. And yeah: someone should call her mother. 

I really didn’t like that Eddie got Greta into Katherine’s room. I had no problem that he’s still her ICE contact - it makes sense that people who share a child would do that or even that it was oversight that she never changed it. But he had no idea who Greta is to Katherine.  She could’ve been a crazy stalker or the coat check person with a crush. Just because he saw them in the coat room doesn’t mean they are in a relationship where Katherine would want her in the room. Go in, tell Katherine that someone named Greta is here and ask if she would like her to come in. And, maybe bring the kid in first. 

[desertflower]

I’m behind and just watched this episode but I had to pop in and say oh my gosh, Theo’s room. It’s like it was frozen in time from when he was 3. Somebody buy that poor kid a Spider-Man poster or something. I don’t get it because the writers did a good job with Danny and with Darcy’s son but when it comes to Theo they seem to just forget everything about what a typical 12 year old boy is like. 
It bugged me that Greta got to be the first one in to see Katherine while her son sits in the waiting room with no updates. 

Cam totally dodged a bullet. Now he doesn’t have to be sucked into this weird little group and spend the rest of his life dropping everything to run and be by (insert name here) side during their crisis of the week. 

I really do like the actors on this show and sometimes they have great scenes that really hit it out of the park, but in general the writing is kind of all over the place. 
 

[KaveDweller]

On 3/17/2022 at 8:29 AM, Trillian said:

I had to read that line in your post several times before I figured out that it referred to Theo - because I completely forgot that Eddie is Theo’s father (perhaps he would like to forget too?).   Caring enough to rush to the hospital, but then he left both Katherine and his own child with his friends while he went off to his girlfriend.  He should’ve been the one to offer to spend the night in the house, or at least take Theo with him with promises to return in the morning - after making sure someone else would escort Katherine home and stay with her. And yeah: someone should call her mother. 

I agree another adult should have stayed at the house, but did they ever make it wheelchair-accessible? I remember when Eddie was living there he couldn't get upstairs to help Theo with something once and was all upset about it. If Katherine passed out upstairs, Eddie being there would not be super helpful.

He still should have offered for Theo's sake. 

[CrystalBlue]

49 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I agree another adult should have stayed at the house, but did they ever make it wheelchair-accessible? I remember when Eddie was living there he couldn't get upstairs to help Theo with something once and was all upset about it. If Katherine passed out upstairs, Eddie being there would not be super helpful.

He still should have offered for Theo's sake. 

Eddie could have swung by Anne's to pick her up in his not-Uber/not-Lyft wheels and brought her over for an overnight observation stay and to meet precious Theo!  Or Greta could have insisted she stay the night and tell Theo she's a private nurse who owns a tattoo parlor.  Gary and Maggie could have volunteered to babysit Theo and leave Cam wondering what's going on with those two.

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Eddie could have swung by Anne's to pick her up in his not-Uber/not-Lyft wheels and brought her over for an overnight observation stay and to meet precious Theo!  Or Greta could have insisted she stay the night and tell Theo she's a private nurse who owns a tattoo parlor.  Gary and Maggie could have volunteered to babysit Theo and leave Cam wondering what's going on with those two.

Yes, anyone in that tight knit group of friends who stayed until early morning hours could/should have offered to stay with her. Though Eddie might not be able to get upstairs, I think he should have been there for his son - his kid's been traumatized, but he heads out to meet a woman instead. I've grown to like Eddie, but this really bothered me.