S05.E09: Yippee Ki-Yay

[helenamonster]

Quote

In an effort to please Salen, Andrews takes on a high-profile case and assigns Shaun and Allen to help perform a risky surgery to restore the voice of a famous pop star.

Original airdate: 3/7/22

[Annber03]

Wow, they nearly had me going with the sister who nearly died there. That was tense. Shaun snapping at Andrews just added to the tension. I thought for a time there they were going to do a twist on the expected ending - the way the father and son were talking at the beginning seemed to heavily foreshadow a tragic ending, but then things turned out okay for them (relatively speaking), so I thought maybe the tragic ending would happen with the sister instead. 

Luckily both cases ended well. Though I totally get Shaun struggling to move past some of the issues surrounding Andrews' case, and his relationship with Salen affecting his decision making. He is absolutely right to call Andrews out on that, especially given his recent promotion. 

Also freaking me out? LIm's initial consideration in looking for another job. I was genuinely afraid she was going to quit. I'm glad she's staying to rally the gang (though wow, her "scrappy band of villagers/freedom fighters" speech sure hit different given real world events). But now Shaun's threatening to quit, so it'll be interesting to see how he returns to the fold, and what will bring him back. 

I liked Lea crashing at Jordan's for a time. Would've been fun to get a few more scenes with them together. I'm glad Lea and Shaun made up. 

[Starchild]

Did I miss the dad explaining why he couldn't hire help to keep his son out of an institution?

[KaveDweller]

17 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Did I miss the dad explaining why he couldn't hire help to keep his son out of an institution?

I assume money?

[possibilities]

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

Did I miss the dad explaining why he couldn't hire help to keep his son out of an institution?

No, they handwaved that entire possibility. Guess what? Dad is going to need help, too. If they live together it will probably be easier to get it than if he has to pay for a separate living situation for his son as well. Institutional care is more expensive than homecare.

Moreover, how have they been supporting themselves all this time, if dad is a full time caregiver who had to give up his job? If they don't have any money, they will get Medicaid and that pays for helpers.

This show knows nothing about disability, and hardly anything about anything else, either. But whatever. They also don't seem to know anything about labor contracts or due process. 

Why was Lea suddenly not mad about Shaun forgiving her? Why was Shaun being blamed for them not getting married, when Lea was the one who walked out? 

This show is not Die Hard. 

[Leeds]

This show has got so boring.  How many more times do we have to see Sean figuring out the loudly telegraphed similarities between the patient's situation/dilemma and his own, or look at Lea's puppy eyed gaze as she stands up to face Sean.

The preview for next week with Salem Witch Trial twirling her moustache in glee was total soap opera.  Ugh.

And for goodness' sake, when will the doctors on this and other medical shows leave the room when a patient is having a highly personal moment with a family member instead of standing there simpering?

[thuganomics85]

Shaun:  "Sorry, Salen, but this show is called The Good Doctor and you make us Bad Doctors instead.  Unacceptable!"

The theme for this episode definitely seem to be about patients not listening to their doctors when it comes to decision making.  And it mainly worked.  Well, kind of.  Realistically, even if the son can now walk, I still don't see things being smooth for him and his father, now that the dad is paralyzed.  Agree that it didn't make sense that the idea of a caretaker was never brought up here and it was all "I have to have this surgery or my son will be sent to an institution!"  The actors were good at least: remember David Marciano (the father) as Billings from The Shield, so it was great seeing him here.

Also fun seeing the Michalka sisters together again on screen as the other patient and her sister and them almost playing an exaggerated version of themselves in some ways.  At least that case ended better than expected, but it sounds like a lot of it really came down to random luck and Shaun was probably right that it wasn't worth the risk.  Even Andrews is questioning how this all played out.

I can't remember: have Lea and Jordan ever really had major scenes together, before?  I just never saw their relationship at the point where Lea could show up unannounced to Jordan's place and ask to crash on the couch.  Whatever: it already looks like Shaun and Lea are back on better footing now, it's probably all a moot point now.

Lim gets demoted and briefly considers abandoning this sinking ship, but decides to fight back instead.  Already has some of the staff in her corner, including Park and Glassman.  Also, Shaun himself might have just quit.  You do know how to win friends and influence people, Salen!

[chitowngirl]

Lim getting demoted and getting replaced with Salen’s boyfriend is really not a good look. But Lim-perhaps don’t announce to the whole OR your plans to take on Salen…you really don’t know who has her ear and will be reporting back.

Edited March 8, 2022 by chitowngirl

[tennisgurl]

That Salen sure knows how to make a productive workplace doesn't she? Its been about a week and her employees are five minutes from waving giant flags around while singing Do You Hear the People Sing as they train the peaceful villagers to fight the blond warlord. 

The theme of the week seemed to be patients wanting to take risks with their health for what they love. I was worried that the sisters story would end in tragedy, as they were foreshadowing the father/son story being the one to end sadly, but I am glad they both ended on positive notes, even if its going to be tough for the father/son. They can still hire someone right? Nice seeing the Michalka sisters together again. To be fair to Andrews, the singer was very insistent that she go through the surgery no matter the risk, but its a rough issue when its something so high risk and there are questions over whether Andrews was going through with this because its what the patient wants and he was confident that they could succeed, or because Salen pushed them towards a risky surgery to save a famous singers voice for the PR. That's clearly what Shaun was worried about, that this isn't about their patient but about what their patient could do for the hospital. 

I was very concerned about Lim possibly leaving, and was very relived when instead she said she was planning to stay. Not sure exactly how she is going to force Lim out of the hospital she owns, but if anyone can do it its her. Maybe be a bit more sneaky in the future though?

Lea and Jordan as roommates has potential, but it looks like the wedding will be back on again soon. Although I almost don't believe it until we get to "kiss the bride", its always something with those two.

Edited March 8, 2022 by tennisgurl

[izabella]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Realistically, even if the son can now walk, I still don't see things being smooth for him and his father, now that the dad is paralyzed.  Agree that it didn't make sense that the idea of a caretaker was never brought up here and it was all "I have to have this surgery or my son will be sent to an institution!" 

Nothing that happened in their storyline made sense to me.  What was the son's issue?  A mass in his pancreas?  How would that make him unable to walk? 

[Glade]

There are very long waiting lists for in-home care services via medicaid, etc (which is why funding for home-based care was such a hyped part of last years 'build back better' bill) which is likely why the father was unable to get an aide/caretaker, and if one or now both are on disability benefits, those don't pay enough to hire a caretaker either.  Honestly, the ending to that story was very grim; that he will now be paralyzed for life, dependent on his now somewhat less disabled(?) son, who will surely need extensive physical therapy to learn to walk? The show could have highlighted the need for home-based care services rather then this messy deus ex machina.  I guess these horribly risky/disastrous surgeries wouldn't have been approved pre-Salen, though...

Edited March 8, 2022 by Glade

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I can't remember: have Lea and Jordan ever really had major scenes together, before?  I just never saw their relationship at the point where Lea could show up unannounced to Jordan's place and ask to crash on the couch. 

From the look on Jordan's face when Lea showed up, I don't think she saw their relationship at that point either lol.  But Shaun and Lea patched things up, and the wedding's back on again.  Yawn.  Can't really bring myself to care.

This storyline with everyone banding together to oust Salen is fun but silly.  All the more so since apparently it's highly questionable whether the baby's death was actually the result of the expired meds.

I didn't realize that Aly and AJ Michalka were actually sisters.  I almost expected Barry Goldberg to turn up for a hospital visit.  Heck, for all we know he works there.  Only Salen would hire him.

[circumvent]

On 3/8/2022 at 2:34 AM, possibilities said:

Moreover, how have they been supporting themselves all this time, if dad is a full time caregiver who had to give up his job? If they don't have any money, they will get Medicaid and that pays for helpers.

That's true, but tricky. They didn't explain how they support themselves. I don't know about California because I think the law changed there recently (although I am not sure if it has already gone into effect) but if they have money and the father doesn't need to work, then Medicaid will not fund anything for him. In most, if not all states, Medicaid is means tested, meaning you have to be and remain very poor and destitute to be "worthy" of support from the state. Plus, there is a chance that local authorities might raise an issue with the father not being able to care for the son, and they would remove the son, depending on his "competency" legal status.  And in some states, the government will prefer to institutionalize the person than provide home care, because they have long wait lists and because lobbyists for the nursing home industry are many and aggressive. But this show likes to keep things in the shallow end, no context or logic.

The show also doesn't need Salen. Why do they haver to manufacture that drama? It is the least interesting part of the show, unecessary and taking up time, our time. I would like to know who the writers are. They are writing like very young people, no life experience to go deeper in anything more nuanced. All the characters acting like teenagers.

[mojito]

10 hours ago, rmontro said:

This storyline with everyone banding together to oust Salen is fun but silly. 

'Tis the season. Same thing happening on "New Amsterdam" right now, and the doctors are also finding that they have a worthy adversary in the administrator (on NA, she's also a doctor).  Will these revolutions last the rest of the season?

I like Salen. She's good at being wicked. I'm really ashamed of Andrews. What happened to him?

This show has run its course. We now know of the special needs and talents of a doctor like Shaun and it's time for the show to fade away. Shaun is boring now and I don't care what happens to him. 

[jabRI]

When Salen said to Lim 'we could have done so much together' I wanted to scream, 'what, kill more babies?'

And why was Andrews so dismissive of the risks and pushing her to have the surgery?  Reznik was the same, he ended up paralyzed. The singer would have been dead if she hadn't saved herself by a fluke of nature.

Really questionable judgement all the way around.

 

[possibilities]

The Olmstead decision from SCOTUS made it illegal to force institutionalize people instead of providing home care, but it's true that it's not really enforced and the nursing home lobby has been an enemy of progress in this area. 

Medicaid is means tested, but if they have money and are not Medicaid eligible, then they would be paying out of pocket for the institution, too, which would be more expensive than hiring help and keeping the kid at home with dad, who will probably also need some help going forward.

I am assuming that if the dad has been a full time caregiver and single parent that they don't have money, but who knows, really? This show never talks about realities like that.

I suppose that if the kid is kicked out of his dad's household, he will become poor enough to be SSI eligible and thus Medicaid eligible, and they would force him into an institution due to the housing shortage and lack of Olmsted enforcement.

But the show should not be glossing over the entire Independent Living Movement and writing stories that don't even address these issues. If they want drama, there's plenty of drama to be mined from abusive PCAs, lack of accessible, affordable housing, nursing home horrors, people who show up in the ER due to injuries from negligent care, etc. It's clearly an agenda not to recognize any of the disabled people empowerment narratives at all, though, from the very start of the series. 

[NeenerNeener]

On 3/8/2022 at 12:35 PM, thuganomics85 said:

The actors were good at least: remember David Marciano (the father) as Billings from The Shield, so it was great seeing him here.

I remember him from farther back than that: Due South.

[KaveDweller]

21 hours ago, rmontro said:

From the look on Jordan's face when Lea showed up, I don't think she saw their relationship at that point either lol.  But Shaun and Lea patched things up, and the wedding's back on again.  Yawn.  Can't really bring myself to care.

They suddenly made Jordan and Lea friends this season. They had a scene earlier this season about dresses and I couldn't remember them ever talking before. I guess they decided Lea needed a friend. Claire would have made more sense if she was still on the show.

There are very few people in my life where the relationship is at the point someone could just show up at my house and ask to crash on my couch. And definitely no one I work with.

[bros402]

On 3/8/2022 at 2:34 AM, possibilities said:

This show knows nothing about disability, and hardly anything about anything else, either. But whatever. They also don't seem to know anything about labor contracts or due process. 

Yuuuup.

That was literally retaliation against Lim

at the start of the episode, saw a quote written on the wall - of course Jordan is the kind of person who has a quote on her wall in giant letters. What's next, "Live, Laugh, Love" pillows?

Also, why is the nickname for the hospital suddenly St. Bons?

so two out of three medical shows this season (that I watch) are having doctors establish a resistance against a bad boss. I don't know which is worse, though.

 

With Shaun's gym story - uhhhh... that was 4th grade... how could he choose to come to gym class?

[Good Queen Jane]

On 3/8/2022 at 4:52 PM, Glade said:

Honestly, the ending to that story was very grim; that he will now be paralyzed for life, dependent on his now somewhat less disabled(?) son, who will surely need extensive physical therapy to learn to walk?

Don't be silly. I saw the son immediately rise up from his bed, walk over to his dad and clearly was able to push his dad's wheelchair. The son doesn't need no stinkin' physical therapy! I kid, of course. Medical shows never show the real life effects of being confined to bed for an extended period.

[aemom]

11 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Don't be silly. I saw the son immediately rise up from his bed, walk over to his dad and clearly was able to push his dad's wheelchair. The son doesn't need no stinkin' physical therapy! I kid, of course. Medical shows never show the real life effects of being confined to bed for an extended period.

Yeah, that really made me roll my eyes as well.

And let me get this straight.  The dad injured himself lifting his son out of the wheelchair, and because of a "straw that broke the camel's back," situation, he wound up with his arm paralyzed and would no longer be able to lift his son in and out of his chair.  He did not want to institutionalize his son, so he took on the risky surgery that has now made him a paraplegic.  Then Reznick notices something in the son, they do surgery on him, and lo and behold, he can walk again.

So the dad wound up paralyzed for nothing since the son can walk now?!?!?!

I felt for the sister who could no longer sing.  I understood how she felt and knew that she would go for the surgery no matter what the risk.  I'm glad that she made it, though she was incredibly lucky to still be alive.

[NJRadioGuy]

Given Salen's issues, there is a compound word missing at the end of the title of this episode.

[circumvent]

20 hours ago, possibilities said:

This show never talks about realities like that.

That's the issue. It is like they come up with "let's have a disability here, let's have the drama of maybe the family having to be separated" but they don't give context, backgorund, nothing. I could write one paragraph that would give a context to the whole drama if I wanted to. If they have an advisor for the autism part (which I have issues with), that same person should be able to advise on the general disability services situation too. 

[bros402]

15 hours ago, aemom said:

Yeah, that really made me roll my eyes as well.

And let me get this straight.  The dad injured himself lifting his son out of the wheelchair, and because of a "straw that broke the camel's back," situation, he wound up with his arm paralyzed and would no longer be able to lift his son in and out of his chair.  He did not want to institutionalize his son, so he took on the risky surgery that has now made him a paraplegic.  Then Reznick notices something in the son, they do surgery on him, and lo and behold, he can walk again.

So the dad wound up paralyzed for nothing since the son can walk now?!?!?!

yuuuuuuuuuuuup

the dad was magically just sitting in a wheelchair, no issues getting used to it

why not show it with the two of them doing PT together or something, could be just as good for their inspiration porn

 

10 hours ago, circumvent said:

That's the issue. It is like they come up with "let's have a disability here, let's have the drama of maybe the family having to be separated" but they don't give context, backgorund, nothing. I could write one paragraph that would give a context to the whole drama if I wanted to. If they have an advisor for the autism part (which I have issues with), that same person should be able to advise on the general disability services situation too. 

yuuup, they need to get some decent disability consultants

[Virtual]

When Shaun flat out quits because he’s not happy with the way things are run, you know you’re a bad manager. It looks like that was all the motivation Glassman needed to join Lim, too. The music was so out of place for this show during that scene, but it fit perfect with the situation.

In the promo for 5x10, I guess Salen is firing people with a connection to Shaun, or firing people in Lim’s recruited group? Or Lim herself? 
 

one thing I’ll say: I don’t think there has ever been a situation or character on this show that had most other characters plus everyone on this forum in agreement. Maybe Kenny, or Shaun’s dad. But this is the first time we’ve had a character stick around for half a season that we all dislike.
 

Glad there were no deaths this week.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Virtual

[WinJet0819]

I must say that it is wearing a bit thin how Shaun constantly drags his Lea issues into every surgery. My troubles with Lea, should Lea move in, should I help with the wedding, should I get Lea a gift. It's getting suffocating. Yes, he's with Lea, and do like them as a couple. But do we need to hear about each and every bit of their drama during every surgery? For me, all the emotion he used in calling out Andrews for his surgery almost not working was instantly cheapened when he mentioned how it's not about his issues with Lea. The scene just did not need that.

I really do want Salen to fall hard. I can not stand her. It speaks to how good the actress is that most everyone hates her character. And demoting Lim is one thing, but to insert her boyfriend into the position just screams all kinds of wrong. I do hope it comes back to bite her. And my opinion of Andrews continues to degrade the longer he continues this relationship with Salen. It feels icky.

And maybe I'm in the minority, but I must say seeing Morgan, who is no longer a surgeon, continually be involved in surgical cases and make surgical recommendations for patients is getting tired. It's like the writers don't know how to use her now that she can't operate, so they stick her with Park and continue to have her be on cases just to keep her relevant. And it's pointless to say she works in the clinic, when we keep seeing her, with the other surgeons doing ER consults. Since she can no longer operate, just have her character transition to becoming a full-time ER physician. After all, that is what this show is missing, as they've gone the Grey's Anatomy route to make it seem like surgeons do everything.

[ForReal]

11 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

I really do want Salen to fall hard. I can not stand her. It speaks to how good the actress is that most everyone hates her character. And demoting Lim is one thing, but to insert her boyfriend into the position just screams all kinds of wrong. I do hope it comes back to bite her. And my opinion of Andrews continues to degrade the longer he continues this relationship with Salen. It feels icky.

After all the ups and downs in his career in the past few years, it was unbelievably crappy of him to take over Lim's office without even speaking to her about it. I hope this last episode wakes him up, but I have a feeling he will sink a bit lower before switching teams for the win.

I have to admit, I was kind of hoping someone would die. Both patients made bad decisions (because the options were not fully explored, not because they were flat-out wrong), but there were no consequences, really. It's hard to say who got luckier, the girl singer or the kid who Resnick by a fluke manages to cure (to a degree). It feels like a lame attempt to play at House, where the risky procedures alway pay off, but this isn't House and the risks weren't sufficiently weighed.

[rmontro]

13 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

I really do want Salen to fall hard. I can not stand her. It speaks to how good the actress is that most everyone hates her character. 

That's a good point, it's like the kid who played King Joffrey on Game of Thrones.  That kid did his job.  But I don't hate Salen, the whole thing seems too cartoonish for me to get that invested.  It will be nice to see her get her comeuppance though.

 

2 hours ago, ForReal said:

I have to admit, I was kind of hoping someone would die. Both patients made bad decisions (because the options were not fully explored, not because they were flat-out wrong), but there were no consequences, really.

I wouldn't say becoming a paraplegic is no consequences, but it could have been so much worse.  The endings managed to be happy.

[Madding crowd]

I’m tired of Shaun learning everything by listening in on patient conversations. He is an intelligent person and surely knows enough to not talk about his personal issues constantly. On top of that, I don’t believe a hospital would put up with his outbursts in the operating room. Someone with limited self control like Shaun would be better as a consultant or specialist doctor where he is not ranting during a life or death surgery.

I like Shaun and Leah together and he will have to learn that couples will not always agree on everything but it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be together. I’ve been married 27 years and my husband has tried to help me with things a number of times where I didn’t want help; I still understand his intentions. Salan is a good character to hate but I don’t like evil characters who hold all the cards. I will be interested in how they take her down but I really would like them to treat Shaun as an intelligent doctor and not a child. 
 

I agree the father son story made no sense on multiple levels. Why would anyone take a huge chance that they might be paralyzed? How much can he help his son now? His son being able to push his wheelchair is a small part of this situation.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

I’m tired of Shaun learning everything by listening in on patient conversations. He is an intelligent person and surely knows enough to not talk about his personal issues constantly.  On top of that, I don’t believe a hospital would put up with his outbursts in the operating room.

He needs a therapist.  Not Glassman, not Leah, not every doctor and nurse in the operating room, not his co-workers, not patients.  He needs a therapist.  It's so bizarre to me that he is adamantly opposed to meeting any others with autism, and to speaking with a therapist who can perhaps teach him better skills to mitigate his sensory issues and reactions to stress and frustration.  It can't hurt and might help him feel better on a day to day basis, so I don't get it.

[bros402]

10 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I’m tired of Shaun learning everything by listening in on patient conversations. He is an intelligent person and surely knows enough to not talk about his personal issues constantly. On top of that, I don’t believe a hospital would put up with his outbursts in the operating room. Someone with limited self control like Shaun would be better as a consultant or specialist doctor where he is not ranting during a life or death surgery.

I like Shaun and Leah together and he will have to learn that couples will not always agree on everything but it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be together. I’ve been married 27 years and my husband has tried to help me with things a number of times where I didn’t want help; I still understand his intentions. Salan is a good character to hate but I don’t like evil characters who hold all the cards. I will be interested in how they take her down but I really would like them to treat Shaun as an intelligent doctor and not a child. 
 

I agree the father son story made no sense on multiple levels. Why would anyone take a huge chance that they might be paralyzed? How much can he help his son now? His son being able to push his wheelchair is a small part of this situation.

Shaun desperately needs a therapist, along with a social skills group.