S33.E09: Rock Bottom

[blackwing]

The little bits of scenery of Greece that we saw were great.  But I did not enjoy this leg.  It was quite boring to watch.  Watching people getting frustrated while turning over rocks for 20 minutes of airtime was not enjoyable.  

I hate the needle in a haystack tasks.  It's how we are still saddled with the thoroughly awful Arun and Natalia.  Phil: "Team number three, this is your best ever finish".  Me:  "well yeah, you finished third out of four!"  I am so incredibly tired of Arun.  "We have a one in four chance of making it to the finals!"  Me:  "well no, technically, you have a three out of four chance of making it to the finals, but it's not as simple as that".

I think needle tasks should be designed at least a bit more fairly.  It's incredibly unfair to the last place team who now has to find one coin out of 5,000 rocks as opposed to finding one coin of the four amongst the 5,000.  It decreases the odds by fourfold.  I think there should have been eight coins hidden... that gives more chances and makes for less boring TV.

The plate breaking was a bit fun to see but then got repetitive.  And there was absolutely no skill at all to it.  I wanted at least one team to miss the clue.  Penn making that stupid sound after every break (and commenting that it was better if you made the sound) was incredibly irritating.  Between his ADHD and her anxiety, I wonder how their kids put up with it.  Kim and Penn must have good psychiatrists and medicine management.

Obvious it was a NEL when Phil didn't tell anyone "you'll be one of the three teams racing for the finish line and $1 million".

9 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

He’s a terrible driver. She’s a terrible navigator. WHY don’t they try switching! Just once??

This.  I think the only explanation must be that she doesn't know how to drive stick.  Surely she could have learned during the interracedom break.

10 hours ago, Mittengirl said:

I was worried that Arun’s knee was going to give out while running at the end, after he told Natalia his knee was buckling after crawling around on the rocks.

I wasn't.  I was kind of hoping that it would indeed give out and he would faceplant and shut him up for a little bit.  And I say that as someone who has had a long history of knee problems myself so I know too well what the feeling is like when your knee is about to give out.  He was so annoying this episode, I think I disliked him more this episode than I dislike Penn, and that's saying a lot.  

[xcrayon2215x]

Glad Raquel and Cayla got their first win, they have been solid recently.

 

With the lack of physical tasks, Ryan and Dusty are not particularly strong anymore. I think if Dusty had kept looking for stones instead of stopping, that they would have finished third. Penn is so over the top but I don't hate him.

[Netfoot]

38 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Obvious it was a NEL when Phil didn't tell anyone "you'll be one of the three teams racing for the finish line and $1 million".

With two legs to go (even if combined into a single, double-wide episode) they can't be down to three teams at this point. So this was an obvious NEL from the get-go.

[iMonrey]

I'm of two minds about the needle-in-a-haystack challenges. On the one hand I can see how they would annoy viewers as they are neither scenic to watch nor particularly skill-based. On the other hand, there has been so little opportunity for teams to pass one another at the challenges themselves. Without this type of challenge I'm certain Kim and Penn would have remained in first place. I'd much rather have really hard challenges like rock-turning than easy challenges that are "fun" to look at, like zip-lining or bungee jumping. And I'm personally not bored watching these types of challenges. The suspense in waiting for someone to find something can be exciting if excruciating.

That said, there should not have been two of them in the same leg, although the plate-breaking one looked comparatively easy. 

It looked like the coins were all hidden under white rocks, so it seems like after the first couple were found the remaining players should have looked at them and started looking for white rocks. I think also at first they all assumed the coin was hidden under a rock and were looking at the ground rather than the underside of the rocks, which is how Kim picked up one of them without seeing the coin.

I really hope Ryan and Dusty can pull ahead of Arun and Natalia next week because the latter have bumbled their way into the final four and are getting unpleasant to watch. 

[NaughtyKitty]

OK, so an Oracle is to give advice and /or predict the future.  I may be wrong, but it really looked to me like when she said "leave no rock unturned" that her arms were held out  in a pie shape framing the spot where all 4 of the rocks were located.

[Taeolas]

IMO, the rock turning challenge should have had more indicators to us of how close/far away the searchers were from a coin. The overhead views showing where the coins were vs the searchers were great, and they should have had more of those through the search portion. That sort of view gives us a clue of how close/far they are, so we can get more excitement to scream at the TV at. "It's by your foot! Turn left! Turn left!" 

A post production glow around the rocks with coins would have helped as well. (The Fail gong was a nice element too. :) )

I don't really consider the plate smash to be a needle task, because you would inevitably find the clue or run out of plates and then know the clue was in there somewhere. It is borderline though; but I was ultimately fine with the plate smash task. (Plus even if you didn't find it, you could always swap to the carry task and get the clue that way) 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Taeolas

[ProfCrash]

I am not a fan of the bungee jump/ziplining tasks and I am not a fan of needle and the haystack. I think there should be an opportunity to pass people but I don't think there should be tasks that are blind luck. Find more tasks that require navigation on foot or solving a puzzle or attention to detail. Things that can be time consuming but reward some type of skill, 

Watching people mindlessly searching for something with no rhyme or reason is not interesting. It is boring to watch and is all luck based. 

 

ETA: Watching the Amazing Race Bonus Clips on YouTube. Everyone got lost driving or on foot. Navigation was challenging for all. They all had massively scrapped knees and blisters and tweaked wrists and knees. There were 5,000 stones and 4 clues (Per Phil). Kim and Penn discussed the missing clue thing with Phil and mentioned the gong. Phil told Kim that she had her hand or foot on a clue more then 4 times. R/C were at the rocks for 2 hours and K/P for 2 hours 30 minutes. 

[wintrygal]

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I thought that Natalie kept changing the direction to go when they were driving-she kept going "straight, no this way, no left.." and then even when she was laughing about her dad not following her directions she said "I told him the parking was on the right" while motioning with her left hand (like go to the left), so I don't think it was so much that she wasn't giving directions it was more that she kept changing them and/or confusing right and left.

I am glad that this was a non-elimination leg.  I seem to like Ryan/Dusty more than some others do and Penn and Kim less.  Penn just grates on me-like when breaking plates and when the music stopped he looked right at the camera and then struck a pose (once he realized the camera was on him).  I guess Phil isn't paying attention to the season as he stated to Ryan and Dusty that they were the strongest team and they aren't.  Penn and Kim have won more legs and had overall better placements.  Phil, if you're not paying attention how can you expect us to pay attention?

And, if you're going to have the Oracle of Delphi, then go to Delphi.  I've been there a couple of times and yes, it's isolated, but the climbing uphill could be a challenge.

I agree about Fenn, I find him pretty annoying,  he seems to always know where the camera is at all times, is is always ready, I am not amused...  I like Kim tho, she reminds of a dear friend of mine so much, even looks a bit like her.   

I could never ever do that rock challenge, I would have beat myself in the head with one in frustration.  

[BusyOctober]

I would never be on TAR (for oh so many reasons),but tasks like the rock flipping would not work for me.  I could never be sitting on the ground or crawling on my knees for more than 20min.  Plus the sun factor.  And I have a low threshold for frustration.

 Dusty isn’t my favorite racer, but major props to him for recognizing his anger situation and dealing with it for the sake of his son.  And Ryan was dealt a very bad hand with his wrongful incarceration, but his demeanor and ability to take a moment to put things in perspective is truly admirable.

Whenever I see the plate breaking thing on tv or in a movie,  I just think about the waste of it all.  Can porcelain or earthenware be recycled or reused elsewhere?   Does it all get swept up into a landfill somewhere? 

My 15 yo just kept yelling at Arun, “pull over and let your daughter drive! She cannot possibly be any worse than YOU!”
 

 

[chaifan]

I'm ok with one true needle in a haystack challenge per season, but I agree that two similar challenges in one episode was not a good call.  They could have put multiple clues on the backs of the plates, which then spelled out the location of the pit stop, or something like that.  And, there was obviously more than one clue per stack of plates - one of the teams missed one, the camera focused in on it in among the shards, but then got another one.  That made for a rather wimpy challenge.

I'm hoping we find out through one of the podcasts if there was a rule about stacking or moving the rocks.  They were definitely being moved - not far, but there were a lot that weren't put back in the same place.  And @iMonrey, I agree, putting the coins "in" the rocks vs. under them was mean.  I guess that's where the "leave no stone UNTURNED" comes into play.  You have to turn them over, not just lift them up. 

 

[Taeolas]

22 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

Whenever I see the plate breaking thing on tv or in a movie,  I just think about the waste of it all.  Can porcelain or earthenware be recycled or reused elsewhere?   Does it all get swept up into a landfill somewhere? 

 

Porcelain and pottery in general are basically the ultimate in recyclable products. All they basically are is (painted) dried mud/clay. So grind them up into a powder and they can mostly be used again. While I'm pretty sure it's not quite that simple, it's probably not that much more difficult either. So plate smashing has a pretty small footprint ultimately, and is a classic Greek tradition (as Kim pointed out I think). 

 

[eel21788]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

  Watching people getting frustrated while turning over rocks for 20 minutes of airtime was not enjoyable.  

The viewing area I'm in, that was mostly preempted by breaking news in The Ukraine. I would much rather have been watching people turn over rocks.

Edited February 24, 2022 by eel21788

[eel21788]

16 hours ago, Netfoot said:

So, it looks like this race will not be a race around the world. That is unfortunate, but under the circumstances I am just glad we got any race at all, rather than the total cancellation of the show which was always a possibility. 

As far as I'm concerned, this was just a throw-away season. Whoever wins really shouldn't have any bragging rights. This wasn't really The Amazing Race.

[blackwing]

9 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

As far as I'm concerned, this was just a throw-away season. Whoever wins really shouldn't have any bragging rights. This wasn't really The Amazing Race.

To me, any edition of the Race is a real edition of "The Amazing Race" (even the family season which was mostly within the United States).  But I agree with you that all they did was go to four European countries, which is completely understandable given the COVID-times.  However, if I were a Racer on this season, I'd be feeling a little bit cheated, like I didn't get the full experience of circumnavigating the whole world.  I know the race doesn't get to every continent every time, but these racers missed out on South America, Africa, and Asia.  Part of the thrill of the race to me is seeing the Racers in countries that they would never ever think they would go to, especially places in Africa.  

Don't get me wrong, I'm still happy that they were able to have a season and a show.  But I guess I am just nostalgic for the old days of the Race.

1) Tasks have been particularly dumbed down this season (and really, the past few seasons).  I miss the days when there were at least some tasks which were puzzle-like or not so obvious.  Instead of the clue saying "White Tower" how about just a picture of it?  Instead of "St. George's Church" on the souvlaki wrapper, how about some kind of word riddle?  

2) How come language barriers aren't an issue anymore?  We no longer get the scenes of people like Light Hair and Dark Hair trying to speak Spanish in France.

3) Are the Racers even getting money anymore?  Everything this season is now self-driving.  What about gas and food money?  Does the camera guy carry a credit card?

[treeofdreams]

I have put my finger on why this season seems a bit off plumb for me.  The racers seem to be going through the race in their own bubble, rather than really interacting with the countries, their people, their cultures, their everyday lives, the way the race usually goes.  Understandable, of course, under the circumstances.  But here they have their own plane to fly between countries rather than the usual airport/ticket scrambles, no public transportation, carefully managed settings where there are other people involved, everything is sanitized to keep everyone as safe as possible.

Which is good.  But it does make the race feel like it is missing something integral, something that is one of my favorite things about a race around the world.

[ByaNose]

Hopefully, in the coming seasons it will get a little tougher & maybe some more travel. I was glad to have it back but I could have done without all of the NEL. Even last night. They should have eliminated the 4th team no matter who it was. 

[ProfCrash]

If they didn't have NEL's then the season would have been over a few weeks back, they were a necessary evil this year. The other option would have been to bring in new teams to replace the teams that couldn't return and I don't think anyone would have loved that. 

It is the season we could get because of COVID. I am enjoying it for what it is. I hope that some of these teams are invited back for a repeat season and we can see how they do on a real version of the race. 

[Zonk]

3 hours ago, NaughtyKitty said:

OK, so an Oracle is to give advice and /or predict the future.  I may be wrong, but it really looked to me like when she said "leave no rock unturned" that her arms were held out  in a pie shape framing the spot where all 4 of the rocks were located.

That would have been clever. But nope. The first time she had her arms crossed, the second time stretched out, but pointed more towards the middle of the arena, when the correct rocks were on the right.

1 hour ago, eel21788 said:

As far as I'm concerned, this was just a throw-away season. Whoever wins really shouldn't have any bragging rights. This wasn't really The Amazing Race.

I mean, this wasn't classic amazing race, but the winners should absolutely have bragging rights. This was much harder than any seasons in recent history (which is a bit sad, but it is the truth).

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

2) How come language barriers aren't an issue anymore?  We no longer get the scenes of people like Light Hair and Dark Hair trying to speak Spanish in France.

Well they are in europe. Most people will speak at least passable english. Also all the racers this season at least aren't dumb as rocks, so they don't try to speak spanish in france..

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

3) Are the Racers even getting money anymore?  Everything this season is now self-driving.  What about gas and food money?  Does the camera guy carry a credit card?

They did get money in the pre covid legs. Not sure if they still get money. If they do, probably not much. I miss the "you have X dollars for this leg of the race"-info in general, but I guess at some point, many years ago, production decided that it wasn't important.

15 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Agree that the bond between these two men is lovely to see. I don’t share the hate that others have for them. Dusty understands his issues and is working on them, which puts him above most people with anger problems.

I don't think anybody hates Ryan.

Good for Dusty that he is working on his problems, but sometimes that's just not enough. He still seems way too unstable to have a family. I feel sorry for that kid. He should have waited till that "working on it" paid off in better results. Sorry, not sorry.

[ProfCrash]

Kim and Penn talked about the money they were getting but how it was going unused. Penn suggested they stop at a bar and grab some wine when they were going to the plate breaking task or the White Tower on foot. They had 50 Euros on them and were beat. Kim physically and mentally and Penn knew it. They didn’t but they thought about it.

Penn also said that there was some conversation among all 4 teams about taking the penalty as a group after they had all been there for an hour. The folks in the stands felt awful for the folks looking for rocks. Kim said it was suggested to her by another Racer in the task and she said “Nope” because she is stubborn and their kids told them to not take any penalties when racing. 

Listening to the podcast, the task was even worse then it looked. There was a rule that you had to return the stone to the place that you found it and you couldn’t mark the stone in any way. kim thought it was cruel that all the stones were in the same general area and thinks that Dusty was looking far way from that area because he didn’t believe that the fourth stone would be in the same area that the first three were found. 

And Kim thinks that the Producer who came up with a carry plates up a hill task after the stone task was evil. it doesn’t sound like anyone even thought about that task. Everyone was doing plate smashing.

[Hera]

20 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

There was a rule that you had to return the stone to the place that you found it and you couldn’t mark the stone in any way.

Well, that explains why Dusty didn't pile them up as he searched, then. But really, for the very last team, it sucks that they didn't relax that rule. He already had a harder job, since he was looking for 1 rock in 5000 instead of 1 in 1250 they all were before any of the coins were found. At least let him pile up the ones he looked at to even it out.

If I were ever on the race, these needle in a haystack challenges would break me. I don't think they're that fun to watch as a viewer, either. They're good for shaking up the order of the teams, but that's about it. As much as I'm not a fan of Ryan and Dusty as a team, it really would have sucked for this to be what got them eliminated. If the race is going to have this type of challenge, I think it should only ever come in a non-elimination leg—although if they did, that would effectively spoil the reveal at the end of the episode.

9 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

I'm not about to call Arun a jerk or anything for snapping at Natalia. He's just tired, and we've seen way worse. She seemed more bemused by it than anything.

I found it kind of funny because he snapped at her the one time she competently gave him directions. She has been guilty of not telling him which way to go, or telling him when it's too late for him to make the turn/exit they need, but not the time he actually chewed her out for it. I think his nerves got frayed at the rock challenge as well, hence all the carping at her for the rest of the leg. I'm sure the hurt knee didn't help things either. But I'd be surprised if he wasn't in a better mood next week.

[Starchild]

16 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Who knew Socrates was so scary? 

I don’t blame anyone for getting frustrated or losing their temper at the stones task. Crawling/ squatting over rocks for any amount of time would be painful, but hours? Brutal.

Phil: “Racers can choose to carry stacks of plates, or they can break them one by one…”
Me: “BREAK BREAK BREAK!!”

No surprise everyone picked that, too. What better release of stone-turning frustration. But, question for Arun: How exactly do you break a plate wrong?

Agree that the bond between these two men is lovely to see. I don’t share the hate that others have for them. Dusty understands his issues and is working on them, which puts him above most people with anger problems. And so what if they’re alpha males? They’ve run a clean race, they consistently support each other, and the other racers like them. What’s so bad about that? I’m glad they get a chance at the finals. Although I’m still pulling for the flight attendants to win.

He’s a terrible driver. She’s a terrible navigator. WHY don’t they try switching! Just once??

Dad, is that you?? (lol)

Nothing to say except I love your name. I agree.

[Blergh]

I definitely think Kim would have had to have made an effort to view Penn's less endearing characteristics via humor instead of putting up little if any resistance to let them just annoy her. I have no idea if this leg of the Race (or the Race itself) was a catalyst to getting weary after years of trying to keep laughing things off or whether she'd had issues with Penn's quirks before the Race. 

[30 Helens]

1 hour ago, Zonk said:

Good for Dusty that he is working on his problems, but sometimes that's just not enough. He still seems way too unstable to have a family. I feel sorry for that kid. He should have waited till that "working on it" paid off in better results. Sorry, not sorry.

To be fair, all we know of Dusty comes from the race, which is a high pressure, anxiety-producing situation that can test even the most placid dispositions. We know he has some anger issues because he’s said so, but what we see here is not necessarily what his family gets at home.

One thing I forgot to mention about the rocks: I noticed that all the rocks with coins were white. If the racers had paid attention to the color of the rocks that were turned in— at least after the second rock, but certainly after the third— this might have made the task a bit easier.

 

[ProfCrash]

17 minutes ago, Blergh said:

I definitely think Kim would have had to have made an effort to view Penn's less endearing characteristics via humor instead of putting up little if any resistance to let them just annoy her. I have no idea if this leg of the Race (or the Race itself) was a catalyst to getting weary after years of trying to keep laughing things off or whether she'd had issues with Penn's quirks before the Race. 

They have been married for close to 15 years. They have 2 kids together. They openly discuss marriage counseling. They wrote a book about fighting in marriage. I am trying to think of two people I have watched on a TV show discuss their various issues with as much candor as the two of them. They both seem to have a good read on the other and are comfortable telling the other when they need to shut up (Kim has done this at least twice in the race) and when they need help. 

I get that Penn is not everyones cup of tea but they seem to be a pretty good fit to me. They seem to understand that marriage is hard and work at making it work. I think that Kim is fine with Penn and Penn is fine with Kim. 

[Blergh]

Blogs/ interviews with couples or individuals are no guarantors that they're being truly candid with the viewers (or each other) but may be just what they want the viewers,etc. to believe. I think that needs to be kept in mind with Kim and Penn and all media personalities! 

[fishcakes]

Did I mishear this or did Phil say, "The pit stop for this leg is the White Tower, which got its name when someone painted it white"? I mean, it's not the most interesting story I've ever heard.

[Starchild]

7 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

They have been married for close to 15 years. They have 2 kids together. They openly discuss marriage counseling. They wrote a book about fighting in marriage. I am trying to think of two people I have watched on a TV show discuss their various issues with as much candor as the two of them. They both seem to have a good read on the other and are comfortable telling the other when they need to shut up (Kim has done this at least twice in the race) and when they need help. 

I get that Penn is not everyones cup of tea but they seem to be a pretty good fit to me. They seem to understand that marriage is hard and work at making it work. I think that Kim is fine with Penn and Penn is fine with Kim. 

I've noticed on their podcasts that he interrupts her constantly. Presumably a feature of his ADHD. It drives me nuts lol but she never loses patience with him. She's clearly made her peace with that quirk of his, and many others I'd wager.

[ProfCrash]

I also have ADHD so his responses fit for me. (Shrugs) 

[Starchild]

Ha, in an earlier thread I mentioned how he reminded me of a Labrador Retriever, and in this latest podcast she actually calls him her Labrador Retriever lol

[RunningMarket]

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

Did I mishear this or did Phil say, "The pit stop for this leg is the White Tower, which got its name when someone painted it white"? I mean, it's not the most interesting story I've ever heard.

... and then they show it, and most of it is back to its original brick colour.

[bearcatfan]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

I also have ADHD so his responses fit for me. (Shrugs) 

My son has ADHD so I get it too. A video they did from last summer recently came up on my Facebook where Penn had a discussion with his ADHD. He said it was very easy to write as he just wrote down what was going through his head. It was funny, but also enlightening. He went from Saturn to the Titanic to Billy Zane to his fantasy football draft in a couple minutes. 

I don’t believe that Kim and Penn have marital issues and I don’t believe that Dusty’s family is being damaged by his anger issues from when he was younger. Being there for 3 hours would have tested anyone’s patience and I didn’t think that Dusty’s reaction showed anything to be concerned about. I know people without anger issues that would have ended up throwing those rocks! Penn knows Kim better than anyone here so if he says humor helps bring her out of her funk then that is true no matter how anyone else feels about it. 

[Grizzly]

I'll give Dusty credit for his sense of humor at the rocks when he was wishing he was making cheese. But the guys were wearing the ugliest socks I've ever seen.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, Grizzly said:

But the guys were wearing the ugliest socks I've ever seen.

Yah, I saw that. At first I thought it was only Nasty, but then I saw Ryan had them too. 

Very cheap to clear, and an additional discount for bulk purchase, I suppose.

[SVNBob]

On 2/23/2022 at 9:01 PM, Netfoot said:

So, it looks like this race will not be a race around the world.

Not for the first time though.

TAR7's route only went as far east as India (via Botswana) before making a u-turn and heading west to Turkey, the UK, then back to the States.

 

On 2/23/2022 at 10:50 PM, Lantern7 said:

We're in the home stretch. As much as I feel that this season is "off" thanks to the extended break, I'm trying to enjoy it. I'm not sure when the next season will get run. I do know I don't have to use the word "if."

About time you joined us on the optimistic side in regards to TAR's future.

On 2/23/2022 at 11:39 PM, Mittengirl said:

I can’t believe that none of the people wearing shorts escaped the plate challenge without a hundred tiny (or not) cuts from all the flying shards. 

It is surprising that the only injury we saw there was the small cut that Cayla got on a finger.

On 2/24/2022 at 12:15 AM, 30 Helens said:

Phil: “Racers can choose to carry stacks of plates, or they can break them one by one…”

Me: “BREAK BREAK BREAK!!”

No surprise everyone picked that, too. What better release of stone-turning frustration. But, question for Arun: How exactly do you break a plate wrong?

As noted upthread, Arun was probably wanting to break the plates into as many small shards as possible, to make it easier to locate the clue.  Some of the plates Natalia broke at first did have some large pieces that the clue could still be completely hidden in.   While it wasn't exactly "wrong", it was less than optimal for the task at hand.

 

22 hours ago, aghst said:

They must have found all the hammy actors in Greece for this leg.

Not all of them.  There have to be several Greek hams that don't speak English that didn't get hired.

15 hours ago, blackwing said:

I hate the needle in a haystack tasks.  It's how we are still saddled with the thoroughly awful Arun and Natalia.  Phil: "Team number three, this is your best ever finish".  Me:  "well yeah, you finished third out of four!"  I am so incredibly tired of Arun.  "We have a one in four chance of making it to the finals!"  Me:  "well no, technically, you have a three out of four chance of making it to the finals, but it's not as simple as that".

While you are correct about the real math, given their track record, I think Arun was over-estimating their odds as 1-in-4.  

 

14 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm of two minds about the needle-in-a-haystack challenges. On the one hand I can see how they would annoy viewers as they are neither scenic to watch nor particularly skill-based. On the other hand, there has been so little opportunity for teams to pass one another at the challenges themselves.

Another thing to keep in mind is that this task was likely invented during the hiatus as part of the route change.  They may not have originally had it in mind, but needed something to do as a Roadblock in Thessaloniki.  And this was the best they could do.  I'm also sure that they intentionally put that Roadblock before the Detour so that the teams could release stress and anger with the smashing.

On that note, one thing we really haven't talked about much is that there's a lot of having Detour locations do double duty this time.  In this Leg, the cafe where the smashing took place was also where they needed to deliver plates to.  And back with the cheese-making, that place was also where the mule-driving teams needed to end up.  I'm sure that's also part of the Covid protocols TPTB enacted; minimizing locations to minimize exposure in both directions.   But it still feels like a natural part of the Race, so I'm not totally surprised that we've overlooked it.

 

8 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

One thing I forgot to mention about the rocks: I noticed that all the rocks with coins were white.

No they weren't.  Just that one stone that Kim kept touching then Arun finally turned over was white.  I think the one Raquel found was one of the rounder yellow stones, and Kim and Dusty turned in grey ones.

From the Live Chat Thread, @Lamb18 asked:

Quote

Is Diogenes known for sitting in a jar?

Not just sitting, but living in an old wine jar.  As part of his philosophy, he lived a very simple and almost animalistic* life.  It is said that the only possessions he had were the jar, the one set of robes (which he didn't always wear), and a wooden bowl for food and water.  But he destroyed the bowl after seeing a peasant boy drink water using his hands, declaring the bowl as "excess baggage".

In his time, Diogenes was likened to and connected with dogs quite often.  He basically stalked (or dogged) a student of Socrates named Antisthenes and begged to become his student.  Antisthenes had to literally beat Diogenes with a stick, but Diogenes said that no wood would be hard enough to keep him away, as long as Diogenes thought Antisthenes had something worth teaching.  Thus, Diogenes was known as "Antisthenes' hound".   He also referred to himself as a dog, saying that "I fawn on those who give me anything, I yelp at those who refuse, and I set my teeth in rascals."  One of the rumored causes of Diogenes' death was an infected dog bite, and statues in his honor at both his birthplace of Sinope, Turkey, and place of death in Corinth feature dogs.   As does this popular painting of him by Jean-Léon_Gérôme from 1860 (which also features his jar and his lantern):

In fact, the name of the school of philosophy he is credited with having a hand in creating, the Cynics, has its' root in the ancient Greek word for dog, "Kyon".

I looked all that up on Wikipedia during one of the commercial breaks, so when there was a dog that seemed to be leading Ryan and Dusty to the White Tower where "Diogenes" was, I found the symbolism very interesting.

[Netfoot]

Thanks for the info-dump on Diogenes. I new little about him other than his reputation as a philosopher. Was considering looking up his circumstances, but laziness won. Sounds like a proper character!

[Zonk]

2 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

To be fair, all we know of Dusty comes from the race, which is a high pressure, anxiety-producing situation that can test even the most placid dispositions. We know he has some anger issues because he’s said so, but what we see here is not necessarily what his family gets at home.

That is true and maybe I'm just a judgemental bitch. But knowing these kind of emotionally unstable people, it usually doesn't get better when they are in private, it usually gets much, much worse.

9 hours ago, bearcatfan said:

I don’t believe that Dusty’s family is being damaged by his anger issues from when he was younger. Being there for 3 hours would have tested anyone’s patience and I didn’t think that Dusty’s reaction showed anything to be concerned about. I know people without anger issues that would have ended up throwing those rocks!

It's really not about this one task but his behaviour throughout the whole race.

3 hours ago, SVNBob said:

Another thing to keep in mind is that this task was likely invented during the hiatus as part of the route change.  They may not have originally had it in mind, but needed something to do as a Roadblock in Thessaloniki.  And this was the best they could do.  I'm also sure that they intentionally put that Roadblock before the Detour so that the teams could release stress and anger with the smashing.

I mean if this is the best they could do then that's pretty damning. They probably should have learned from the haybales (and afaik did so when that one came around the second time) that you hide more than the required number of clues/coins on the playing field. Otherwise it takes way too long and is way too unfair to the last team there. What would have stoped them from just placing 6 or 8 coins in that arena? Nothing.

 

[Netfoot]

56 minutes ago, Zonk said:

I mean if this is the best they could do then that's pretty damning. They probably should have learned from the haybales (and afaik did so when that one came around the second time) that you hide more than the required number of clues/coins on the playing field.

If I remember correctly, in the original Haybales from Hell, they had 20 clues hidden and 9 teams searching.

I know this type of needle/haystack task can be a bitch, but so can life. I don't mind them so much, especially if there is some sort of clue that can help an observant team to find the needle more easily.

There was a needle/haystack task earlier, in a grove of olive trees. The clues were tied to a high branch. It appeared that the clue was always in a tree with a ladder nearby. Observing this might lead to a faster search. In this particular case, the bright yellow clue in among green leaves made it easy to find either way.

In this particular challenge, I was trying to see if the Oracle wasn't giving some sort of hint by way of her gestures, but I never picked up on anything. If she was, I think camerawork would probably have made it plain.

[ProfCrash]

Dusty has not been badly behaved on the race. He was anxious during the cheese making and was being too fiddly with the burner. He over thought the task and screwed it up. He was pacing back and forth between his cheese and Lulu and Lala's cheese and clearly agitated. He didn't yell at anyone. He wasn't screaming or abusing people. He was nervous and on edge, everyone saw that, but he wasn't being a dick. They switched tasks and then crushed the physical tasks. His celebration at the end was exuberant and over the top.

That celebration has been something that we have seen when completes any task. We saw it at the grape leaves and at the arena when he found the stone. It seems to be a part of who Dusty is. But again, we have not seen him raise his voice or be rude to people. He has been great with Ryan and listened to Ryan when he was agitated. We have not seen him be rude to locals or mean towards other Racers. 

So yeah, he is intense. His own words say that he has issues with anger but I don't think we have actually seen him be angry. Clearly he thinks it is something he needs to work on. Good on him for seeing that and working on it. I have no clue how ragey he is at home but Ryan doesn't strike me as the type who would be good friends with someone who was a ragey asshole and abusive to his family. I'll give Dusty loud chest beater when mildly successful but I think that it is a huge leap to bigger issues. 

I get that we see things about the contestants that are off putting for viewers. Akbar's behavior towards Sheri pissed me off. But Sheri seems to be fine with it and thinks that the response was blown out of proportion. Akbar's community appreciates him and what he has done for them. So the snap shot we saw was not pretty but I don't know that it is the most accurate portrayal of Akbar and his relationship with Sheri. I know Penn annoys some folks, and I get it because I annoy folks for many of the same reason Penn is annoying some folks. I don't think Penn annoys Kim and I think Kim is fine with telling Penn to stop when he needs to stop and Penn is ok with that. And yes, they both know where the camera is, they produce videos for a living and more then the ones that they post on Youtube. They run a production company and have clients that they produce videos for. So yes, they know where the camera is. I don't think for a second that Penn is playing to the camera, I think he is being Penn. if anything, his behavior has toned down as the race has gone on. But they totally know where the camera is. And my ADHD self is fine with his being ADHD in public and proud of his success in life and using his ADHD in a manner that has been so successful. 

This cast is as tame a cast as we have had in, potentially, ever. I mean, Akbar is the big villain of the season.  Akbar and his awful tone towards Sheri. He never even had an "My ox is broken" level moment or almost got arrested or yelled at people for U turning them. 

 

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

Dusty has not been badly behaved on the race. He was anxious during the cheese making and was being too fiddly with the burner. He over thought the task and screwed it up. He was pacing back and forth between his cheese and Lulu and Lala's cheese and clearly agitated. He didn't yell at anyone. He wasn't screaming or abusing people. He was nervous and on edge, everyone saw that, but he wasn't being a dick. They switched tasks and then crushed the physical tasks. His celebration at the end was exuberant and over the top.

That celebration has been something that we have seen when completes any task. We saw it at the grape leaves and at the arena when he found the stone. It seems to be a part of who Dusty is. But again, we have not seen him raise his voice or be rude to people. He has been great with Ryan and listened to Ryan when he was agitated. We have not seen him be rude to locals or mean towards other Racers. 

So yeah, he is intense. His own words say that he has issues with anger but I don't think we have actually seen him be angry. Clearly he thinks it is something he needs to work on. Good on him for seeing that and working on it. I have no clue how ragey he is at home but Ryan doesn't strike me as the type who would be good friends with someone who was a ragey asshole and abusive to his family. I'll give Dusty loud chest beater when mildly successful but I think that it is a huge leap to bigger issues. 

I get that we see things about the contestants that are off putting for viewers. Akbar's behavior towards Sheri pissed me off. But Sheri seems to be fine with it and thinks that the response was blown out of proportion. Akbar's community appreciates him and what he has done for them. So the snap shot we saw was not pretty but I don't know that it is the most accurate portrayal of Akbar and his relationship with Sheri. I know Penn annoys some folks, and I get it because I annoy folks for many of the same reason Penn is annoying some folks. I don't think Penn annoys Kim and I think Kim is fine with telling Penn to stop when he needs to stop and Penn is ok with that. And yes, they both know where the camera is, they produce videos for a living and more then the ones that they post on Youtube. They run a production company and have clients that they produce videos for. So yes, they know where the camera is. I don't think for a second that Penn is playing to the camera, I think he is being Penn. if anything, his behavior has toned down as the race has gone on. But they totally know where the camera is. And my ADHD self is fine with his being ADHD in public and proud of his success in life and using his ADHD in a manner that has been so successful. 

This cast is as tame a cast as we have had in, potentially, ever. I mean, Akbar is the big villain of the season.  Akbar and his awful tone towards Sheri. He never even had an "My ox is broken" level moment or almost got arrested or yelled at people for U turning them. 

 

I agree... I don't think Dusty is a bad person.  He is very intense, but he has not behaved badly towards his partner, the other racers, or the locals.  He is a very competitive person and he pushes himself to excel.  He recognises that he had anger management issues in the past and has gotten himself to a place where he is able to keep things in check.  I fully understand why his whooping and hollering bothers people but it doesn't bother me.   Probably the same way I find Penn to be extremely irritating and can't stand the way he always looks for the camera to make sure it captures a camera-worthy moment, yet others have no issue with him.

I did find the comment upthread about how Dusty doesn't deserve to be a father to be a bit harsh.

[Blergh]

13 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I agree... I don't think Dusty is a bad person.  He is very intense, but he has not behaved badly towards his partner, the other racers, or the locals.  He is a very competitive person and he pushes himself to excel.  He recognises that he had anger management issues in the past and has gotten himself to a place where he is able to keep things in check.  I fully understand why his whooping and hollering bothers people but it doesn't bother me.   Probably the same way I find Penn to be extremely irritating and can't stand the way he always looks for the camera to make sure it captures a camera-worthy moment, yet others have no issue with him.

I did find the comment upthread about how Dusty doesn't deserve to be a father to be a bit harsh.

Agree- and the viewers have ZERO idea (nor truly need to know) what kind of parent Dusty's son's mother is!

[Welshman in Ca]

On 2/24/2022 at 6:42 AM, Taeolas said:

The scenery as usual was gorgeous, but I'm amazed at how empty/uncrowded it was, especially for what Phil said was the second biggest city in Greece. Also, this is probably the North American in me speaking, but for what should be such a big city, it really felt small and tight as far as a city goes. That just goes along with how ancient that land is I guess. 

Yes, spoken like a true American. It's a city, just not a big city. There are rules in a lot of Europe for what can be termed a city compared to a village or town. In the UK a city cannot be called a city unless it has a cathedral or some such rule whereas everything is a city in the USA.

For the most part these places are tight because originally most were within some sort of wall or natural barrier like surrounded by hills due to the regular attacks from other nations & even towns/cities. They also don't have the room compared to parts of the USA being a lot smaller in the same way that most Europeans think of Americans not ever leaving their country as weird but having lived here you realize why, it's just so big.

[lgprimes]

Until somebody mentioned them above I hadn’t really noticed, but now… what’s with no U-turns this season? That severely lowers the drama aspect of the race!

[HurricaneVal]

For the rock picking challenge....I wonder if maybe the racers were a little unclear on the concept, or if the clue wasn't clear.  I think when they were looking "under a rock" for the coin, they were expecting the coin to be sitting on the ground, covered by the rock.  Not glued to the rock in a routered out recess.  I saw a lot of shifting of rocks in addition to flipping of rocks. 

Edited to add:  In fact, as the challenge went longer, I could see where it would be exhausting to flip over every rock, and preservation of energy strategies would kick in where just shifting the rocks seemed "good enough" to get the job done. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by HurricaneVal
I had another thought. But wait, there's more!

[Haleth]

There was a shot of Thessaloniki from above in the hills and it was pretty sprawling. If it seems like the places visited by the racers are sparsely populated it’s because the designers largely kept them in out of the way places for Covid reasons. Their #1 concern was keeping cast and crew safe. 

[seacliffsal]

54 minutes ago, Welshman in Ca said:

Yes, spoken like a true American. It's a city, just not a big city. There are rules in a lot of Europe for what can be termed a city compared to a village or town. In the UK a city cannot be called a city unless it has a cathedral or some such rule whereas everything is a city in the USA.

I don't know that "spoken like a true American" is accurate or just an implication that one thinks Americans are less knowledgeable about cities than others.  Interestingly, not just everything is a city in the U.S. as there are incorporation requirements in order for a populated area to be considered a city.  That's why some inhabited areas are designated as towns, villages, or unincorporated.  

[Tango64]

I actually love the needle-in-a-haystack challenges. Some folks are criticizing the challenges this season for being too easy, but the haystack challenges are almost always really hard -- like this time. Sure, it's not talent or physicality that wins a challenge like that, but the ability to drive on through mind numbing failure after failure is a skill of its own.

I'd much, much rather than see a challenge like this than watch the contestants just line up for a zipline ride that requires absolutely zero effort, skill, or determination. Tasks like the rock challenge can really break people and shake up the racing order, as we saw this time.

[Browncoat]

5 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

Tasks like the rock challenge can really break people and shake up the racing order, as we saw this time.

See also Colin and his broken ox.  

[ProfCrash]

1 hour ago, lgprimes said:

Until somebody mentioned them above I hadn’t really noticed, but now… what’s with no U-turns this season? That severely lowers the drama aspect of the race!

The Racers have been waiting for one. Dusty actually screamed something about not being U-Turned at the Grape task, I am not sure if that was cut form the show and was just on the bonus clip. Kim and Penn discuss their U Turn strategy on their Podcast. So yeah, the teams were all waiting for a U turn, it's not just us. 

I think it is safe to say that there is not going to be a U Turn. A U turn on one of the last two legs would be awful. 

[aghst]

They literally had needle in a haystack challenge didn't they?

I vaguely recall Phil having to come out in the dark to eliminate a team.  They had to light up the field.

So in this case it wasn't an NEL.

[proserpina65]

I love how everyone chose the plate smashing task.  I would've too, because it looked like fun.

On 2/24/2022 at 7:23 AM, Haleth said:

I'm glad it was an NEL since I'm still so afraid Arun and Natalia are going to blunder their way to the finish line.  Any team that has been bailed out countless times has no right to call themselves the winners.

I agree, and yet we had the Beekman Boys winning AR21 despite being one of the lamest teams ever.