Secrets Of Playboy - General Discussion

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, princelina said:

He wanted the women to be liberated enough to sleep with him and his friends without having to marry them 😄

And have the option to terminate a pregnancy for the same reason.

[Tatum]

On 2/6/2022 at 9:38 PM, RealHousewife said:

Kimberly Hefner made a statement. Some other Playmates/Playboy Bunnies also defended Hef. 

https://people.com/tv/hundreds-of-past-playboy-employees-playmates-defend-hugh-hefner-in-open-letter/

 

On 2/7/2022 at 3:48 AM, Cinnabon said:

Scott Baio’s wife is a bigoted, hateful twunt.

Hee, yeah, I wouldn't put much stock into anything Renee says.

 

Regarding Kimberly, I don't think that she can conclude Holly is a liar just because she never witnessed it, but I did laugh because I remember back in 2009 Holly tweeted (in response to Kimberly and Hef's looming divorce becoming contentious and Kim suing Hef for not following some of the terms of the prenup) something about hating "spoiled Beverly Hills wives" for suing their ex-husbands  when they need money instead of getting a job. Hey Holly, turnabout is fair play and all...

[RealHousewife]

13 minutes ago, Tatum said:

 

Hee, yeah, I wouldn't put much stock into anything Renee says.

 

Regarding Kimberly, I don't think that she can conclude Holly is a liar just because she never witnessed it, but I did laugh because I remember back in 2009 Holly tweeted (in response to Kimberly and Hef's looming divorce becoming contentious and Kim suing Hef for not following some of the terms of the prenup) something about hating "spoiled Beverly Hills wives" for suing their ex-husbands  when they need money instead of getting a job. Hey Holly, turnabout is fair play and all...

Completely agree about Kimberley. She doesn't know what Holly dealt with, but as a Holly fan, yeah she did not like Kimberley. IRC, she said stuff about her in the GND commentary too. I was surprised because Holly wanted certain things from Hef as a gf, that she'd judge Kimberley for what she wanted as a wife and mother of Hef's kids. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by RealHousewife

[Tatum]

6 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Completely agree about Kimberley. She doesn't know what Holly dealt with, but as a Holly fan, yeah she did not like Kimberley. IRC, she said stuff about her in the GND commentary too. I was surprised because Holly wanted certain things from Hef as a gf, that she'd judge Kimberley for what she wanted as a wife and mother of Hef's kids. 

What was weird about the judgey comment was it was made after Holly left the mansion, so there really was no incentive for her to take Hef's side. I like Holly (and I believe she's telling the truth about her experiences at the mansion), but it was a completely classless comment, and about a situation that did not involve her.

 

That is why I tend to be so skeptical when Holly always makes herself out to be the victim of other women bullying her- I don't doubt they did, but I don't believe Holly when she says she never instigated anything. And that isn't even really judging her- I certainly made my fair share of petty, catty comments in the past, and most people have as well. I would have preferred Holly just to admit, yes, I wasn't always the bigger person. Instead, she is always the persecuted one. That doesn't make me doubt that she's telling the truth about what happened during her time at the mansion (with Hef specifically), but I do think it hurts her credibility in general when she never wants to admit to any wrongdoing.

[RealHousewife]

17 minutes ago, Tatum said:

What was weird about the judgey comment was it was made after Holly left the mansion, so there really was no incentive for her to take Hef's side. I like Holly (and I believe she's telling the truth about her experiences at the mansion), but it was a completely classless comment, and about a situation that did not involve her.

 

That is why I tend to be so skeptical when Holly always makes herself out to be the victim of other women bullying her- I don't doubt they did, but I don't believe Holly when she says she never instigated anything. And that isn't even really judging her- I certainly made my fair share of petty, catty comments in the past, and most people have as well. I would have preferred Holly just to admit, yes, I wasn't always the bigger person. Instead, she is always the persecuted one. That doesn't make me doubt that she's telling the truth about what happened during her time at the mansion (with Hef specifically), but I do think it hurts her credibility in general when she never wants to admit to any wrongdoing.

Yeah, I believe Holly was with Criss Angel when she talked about Kimberley. 

I don't think Holly is mean-spirited, just that she can be very uh candid. lol I am kind of the same, so this quality doesn't bother me too much. But as much as I like her YouTube videos, sometimes I don't like how much she talks about Kendra. Kendra was in her late teens and early 20s during that time. I'd hate to be judged for my stupidity during those years 15 years later, especially if I've moved past that time. Holly wrote a book, talks about GND a lot on her YouTube channel and then this documentary. I think a lot of this has probably been therapeutic for her, and fans enjoy her content. But Kendra is way past her mansion days and probably hates being dragged back into it.

Even though I think Holly is genuinely nice and never meant to hurt anyone, as for as the whole persecuted thing, I do think she plays down what she got out of being with Hef and dramatizes how difficult it would be to leave. She never mentioned the revenge porn being a deterrent from leaving until the documentary. It's disgusting Hef would take pictures of the women when they were drunk, but Holly never saw Hef seek revenge on the very many girlfriends he had. They all just left, and Hef simply got new girlfriends. 

[Tatum]

21 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I do think she plays down what she got out of being with Hef and dramatizes how difficult it would be to leave. She never mentioned the revenge porn being a deterrent from leaving until the documentary. It's disgusting Hef would take pictures of the women when they were drunk, but Holly never saw Hef seek revenge on the very many girlfriends he had. They all just left, and Hef simply got new girlfriends. 

Did Holly say that was why she specifically chose not to leave, for fear of retaliation? I got the impression Holly was just very overwhelmed at the prospect of starting over, and it was more fear of the unknown that made her stay in an emotionally unhealthy situation, and that the impetus to move on may have been the thought that with Kendra and Bridget each getting serious about moving on, her hand may be forced anyways and better to just get it over with.

 

I think Holly is guilty of some revisionist history about her past in general, but I don't see her like, making up all this stuff about Hef just to stay relevant. First of all, from her books, the examples she gives are pretty specific, and she's also opening herself up to a lot of judgment for putting up with it. Second, she's been pretty successful in her post mansion life, both financially and professionally, so I don't really see an incentive for her to lie about things now. I think she probably considered herself a loser for staying as long as she did and blamed herself for allowing everything to happen and actually begging for more, and she's still processing how the situation went down and how it continues to affect her life now, and I just don't see the problem with that.

I think Hef is far from an innocent, benevolent old man who just had his kinks here and there. If he was kind to some people, great. That doesn't mean it's impossible he was very cruel to someone else, it just means he knew what he could get away with doing.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Tatum

[princelina]

1 hour ago, RealHousewife said:

sometimes I don't like how much she talks about Kendra. Kendra was in her late teens and early 20s during that time. I'd hate to be judged for my stupidity during those years 15 years later, especially if I've moved past that time. Holly wrote a book, talks about GND a lot on her YouTube channel and then this documentary. I think a lot of this has probably been therapeutic for her, and fans enjoy her content. But Kendra is way past her mansion days and probably hates being dragged back into it.

Kendra was a bitch to her post-GND.  I guess Holly holds grudges 😃

[Sweet-tea]

I just watched the latest episode. I believe there were a lot of drugs around as it makes sense. I didn’t realize Hef’s secretary killed herself though or that she was going to go to prison. It was sad. 

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

Did Holly say that was why she specifically chose not to leave, for fear of retaliation? I got the impression Holly was just very overwhelmed at the prospect of starting over, and it was more fear of the unknown that made her stay in an emotionally unhealthy situation, and that the impetus to move on may have been the thought that with Kendra and Bridget each getting serious about moving on, her hand may be forced anyways and better to just get it over with.

 

I think Holly is guilty of some revisionist history about her past in general, but I don't see her like, making up all this stuff about Hef just to stay relevant. First of all, from her books, the examples she gives are pretty specific, and she's also opening herself up to a lot of judgment for putting up with it. Second, she's been pretty successful in her post mansion life, both financially and professionally, so I don't really see an incentive for her to lie about things now. I think she probably considered herself a loser for staying as long as she did and blamed herself for allowing everything to happen and actually begging for more, and she's still processing how the situation went down and how it continues to affect her life now, and I just don't see the problem with that.

I think Hef is far from an innocent, benevolent old man who just had his kinks here and there. If he was kind to some people, great. That doesn't mean it's impossible he was very cruel to someone else, it just means he knew what he could get away with doing.

No, not specifically, but she did mention that in the documentary. 

I see. I was trying to understand what you meant about always being the persecuted one. I don't see Holly as a mean girl type, just brutally honest and snarky at times. (And again, I can be the same, so not a huge deal to me.) The only thing I could think of as far as the comments about her always being the victim is the way she describes her life at the mansion and how difficult it would be to leave. I guess I see things in between the people who are just like shut up Holly, you made your own bed, and the ones who think it must have been all but impossible to leave. Holly saw so many other women leave whose lives weren't ruined, dated other men, moved on from Playboy, etc. I can see a super conservative man not wanting to date her, but not sure why she'd want to be with one anyway when she's not the most conservative woman, know what I mean? I definitely think each gf's relationship with Hef was unique, but I do also tend to think the truth falls somewhere in the middle. But do I understand just feeling overwhelmed and what did I get myself into?! Yes, I mentioned some examples of feeling similarly in another post. 

I don't think anyone here has the highest opinion of Hef. I think some people are just more surprised than others about the unflattering things said about him. 

I think the women who say Hef is one of the kindest people they ever met, always a gentleman, probably just didn't see his mean, abusive side.

Then I also don't know if I buy that the women didn't try hard to be with him for the perks, would want to marry and have kids with him for the perks, and at the same time he was this monster and the thought of leaving him after years and years was so, so terrifying. I think even with Hef's dark side, it's not like he had this dungeon where he trapped women. Know what I mean? Most of the girlfriends dated him for a bit, had fun and then left when it wasn't fun anymore. 

And absolutely. For example, Hef met Brande Roderick when she was already a very beautiful, confident woman who had a career going. She wasn't this insecure girl who came in needing a place to stay and wished she could get plastic surgery or whatever. It would make sense for Hef to always be nice to her because she'd just bounce otherwise. She had her own apartment and didn't need Hef for a thing. 

1 hour ago, princelina said:

Kendra was a bitch to her post-GND.  I guess Holly holds grudges 😃

lol I remember Kendra said some foul stuff when Holly's book was published, but even that's been several years ago at this point. 

[Tatum]

5 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I see. I was trying to understand what you meant about always being the persecuted one. I don't see Holly as a mean girl type, just brutally honest and snarky at times. (And again, I can be the same, so not a huge deal to me.) The only thing I could think of as far as the comments about her always being the victim is the way she describes her life at the mansion and how difficult it would be to leave

The always victim thing came from how I viewed her talking about the other girlfriends, not Hef. If Holly's book can be believed, the original girlfriend harem (so before Bridget and Kendra) were always picking on her, to Hef's delight. Holly never said anything mean to them, but they were always insulting her and trying to make Hef mad at her. It's a theme throughout the two books I read- Holly is nice, the other women she has conflicts with are mean. I am going to call bullshit on that one. The other women may have been the instigators the majority of the time, but I refuse to believe Holly never said anything rude, as evidenced by her petty tweet about Kimberley Hefner.

 

As far as Hef goes, I think he's a creep who got off on controlling and degrading women. I don't think he forced any of them to live there or forced them to stay. Holly could have left any time and that's on her that she stayed. She stayed either because she thought there would be a payoff in it for her or she thought the perks of Mansion life outweighed putting up with Hef, at least for many years. That doesn't mean Hef is excused for being a creep in the first place.

[RealHousewife]

3 minutes ago, Tatum said:

The always victim thing came from how I viewed her talking about the other girlfriends, not Hef. If Holly's book can be believed, the original girlfriend harem (so before Bridget and Kendra) were always picking on her, to Hef's delight. Holly never said anything mean to them, but they were always insulting her and trying to make Hef mad at her. It's a theme throughout the two books I read- Holly is nice, the other women she has conflicts with are mean. I am going to call bullshit on that one. The other women may have been the instigators the majority of the time, but I refuse to believe Holly never said anything rude, as evidenced by her petty tweet about Kimberley Hefner.

 

As far as Hef goes, I think he's a creep who got off on controlling and degrading women. I don't think he forced any of them to live there or forced them to stay. Holly could have left any time and that's on her that she stayed. She stayed either because she thought there would be a payoff in it for her or she thought the perks of Mansion life outweighed putting up with Hef, at least for many years. That doesn't mean Hef is excused for being a creep in the first place.

Gotcha!

And agreed. 

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Tatum said:

The always victim thing came from how I viewed her talking about the other girlfriends, not Hef. If Holly's book can be believed, the original girlfriend harem (so before Bridget and Kendra) were always picking on her, to Hef's delight. Holly never said anything mean to them, but they were always insulting her and trying to make Hef mad at her. It's a theme throughout the two books I read- Holly is nice, the other women she has conflicts with are mean. I am going to call bullshit on that one. The other women may have been the instigators the majority of the time, but I refuse to believe Holly never said anything rude, as evidenced by her petty tweet about Kimberley Hefner.

 

As far as Hef goes, I think he's a creep who got off on controlling and degrading women. I don't think he forced any of them to live there or forced them to stay. Holly could have left any time and that's on her that she stayed. She stayed either because she thought there would be a payoff in it for her or she thought the perks of Mansion life outweighed putting up with Hef, at least for many years. That doesn't mean Hef is excused for being a creep in the first place.

In the original TWOP GND boards the rumor was that Holly got rid of all the girlfriends she thought was a threat and kept Brigette because she was older and married. They said she was obsessed with Hef and moved into the number 1 spot and pretended to like all his interests. The number 1 was required to recruit for the sex parties.

I like Holly and do believe Hef was a total jerk, but it was weird that she wanted a real relationship from this weird situation.

I do think she probably was possessive of Hef, at least at first.

I do not hold it against her because people do make mistakes when they are young but wish that she would take a little more ownership of her behavior. Like you said, no one is an angel at all times including me.

[emma675]

The latest episode of this show was definitely darker and grittier than the previous one (good lord, I can't believe I just said that about a documentary focused on the sordid horror that was Hugh Hefner).

Adrienne Pollack seemed like she got in over her head and didn't realize how bad things were until it was too late. I feel awful for her family but I don't think she was murdered, it was just a young woman caught up in drugs and a world that was probably far beyond what a 23 year old could handle. 

Bobbie Arnstein was interesting. I also don't think she was murdered but I wonder how much she was "encouraged" behind the scenes to deal with her situation and make sure Hef was never touched. She came off as so confident and furious in that quick scene where she was on camera after her conviction, telling the reporters she couldn't speak with them. I wonder how much Hef's inner circle influenced her overdose? I thought it was fascinating how her lawyer said she was a woman in a man's world, wanting the same power, money, and status as her male counterparts, knowing she was taking advantage of other women in this weird world and she still would never get it. What a waste of a life.

Sondra means well, I think, but she is just kind of a mess. I truly believe she was a drug mule for Hef but I also wonder how far into drugs she really was. 

And wtf was with the British lady in the fascinator and silk dressing gown? I could not figure her out, lol.

[RealHousewife]

34 minutes ago, emma675 said:

And wtf was with the British lady in the fascinator and silk dressing gown? I could not figure her out, lol.

Here's some more information about Marilyn Cole. In case anyone is going to read this article at work, there are some risqué pics, not nude though. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10317919/Marilyn-Cole-Playboys-nude-model-says-did-money.html

[MsTree]

After reading all the comments, I've come to the conclusion that Holly is/was delusional (re: marrying Hef), over-dramatic (re: bullying), and a bit of a mean girl (re: catty comments). In addition, the persecution complex doesn't help her any.

OTOH, with age, Hef just wound up being a crotchety old man in more ways than one. Shades of the Peter Pan complex that MJ had, on a WAY higher level.

[Tatum]

By multiple accounts other than Holly, that 7 girlfriend harem was absolutely vicious to each other. I remember in the late 90s/early 2000s hearing rumors about one girlfriend putting Nair in another girl's shampoo. I can also see Hef grinning over these women figuratively slugging each other out for his attention and approval. Gross.

[Gharlane]

18 hours ago, Tatum said:

I think Hef is far from an innocent, benevolent old man who just had his kinks here and there. If he was kind to some people, great. That doesn't mean it's impossible he was very cruel to someone else, it just means he knew what he could get away with doing.

This reminds me a lot of Michael Jackson and Bill Cosby. There were people who truly had no idea what was going on.

 

10 hours ago, emma675 said:

The latest episode of this show was definitely darker and grittier than the previous one (good lord, I can't believe I just said that about a documentary focused on the sordid horror that was Hugh Hefner).

I haven't been able to see the latest ep yet, but if memory serves, the TVwoP GND board talked about lots of Quaaludes and "boner pills" being involved.

[emma675]

2 hours ago, Gharlane said:

I haven't been able to see the latest ep yet, but if memory serves, the TVwoP GND board talked about lots of Quaaludes and "boner pills" being involved.

It was apparently WAY more than just that. Weed, piles of cocaine, quaaludes in multiple prescriptions, dexadrine, etc. It was a fascinating look at the "war on drugs" during that time and how Hef escaped any and all persecution of it. Bobbie Arnstein took the fall and paid the price and he just carried on.

[RealHousewife]

5 hours ago, Tatum said:

By multiple accounts other than Holly, that 7 girlfriend harem was absolutely vicious to each other. I remember in the late 90s/early 2000s hearing rumors about one girlfriend putting Nair in another girl's shampoo. I can also see Hef grinning over these women figuratively slugging each other out for his attention and approval. Gross.

Weren't there girlfriends who'd mock Holly? And some of the girlfriends would make fun of Hef too. I think that's part of what led Holly to believe the issue was the other women and not Hef. 

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, RealHousewife said:

Weren't there girlfriends who'd mock Holly? And some of the girlfriends would make fun of Hef too. I think that's part of what led Holly to believe the issue was the other women and not Hef. 

It's been awhile since I read it, so I don't remember specifics, I just remember Holly giving the impression the other girls really had it out for her, and Hef encouraged it. I don't know if Holly took this personally or if she thought it was some kind of initiation since she was the newest member of the squad. Also, Holly acted pathetically grateful to everything Hef did, and the other girls who were accepting his "gifts" as their just due thought she was showing them up. At least that is the impression I got. Also I thought the late 90s GFs had way more freedom than what the GND would eventually have. I think the door was a lot more revolving and it wasn't always Hef kicking a girl out- a fair bit one of the girls just got bored, or got a better offer elsewhere. That seemed to be the impetus for Hef to limit the girlfriends' job opportunities and chances to mix with other people outside of the Hef sanctioned Playboy world. I do recall one of the girlfriends was "Tiffany" and I can't remember now if her name was actually Tiffany or if that was the alias Holly gave her (Holly used fake names for most of the women that weren't easily identifiable from the show). but omg Tiffany was a bitch right out of the Revenge of the Nerds movies.

 

ETA: It's Tiffany Holiday and her alias in the book is "Vicky". And Tiffany....yeesh. While Hef's personal aesthetic has always been kind of trashy, her look was way over the top. On her best day, she looks like she is wearing a Pam Anderson mask- like she should be cute, but something is just off. She might have been pretty without all the fillers.

 

5 hours ago, Gharlane said:

There were people who truly had no idea what was going on.

I didn't. I thought he was just a friendly old man that liked young women and was willing to pay for it. Which is technically true, but only on a very superficial level.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Tatum

[Keywestclubkid]

Some of the home videos Hef looks high as F*^k .. he’s got the jaw going and his HIGH beams on … 

[Keywestclubkid]

Showing his pattern of cutting the Gfs off from the rest of the world.. and keeping eyes on them when they were “out” and NO one thought this was odd at the time? I mean red flag red flag 

[emma675]

I hope Hugh Hefner is rotting in hell. That's all I have to say about the latest episode. 

[Spartan Girl]

Those poor animals…

[xls]

Just now, emma675 said:

I hope Hugh Hefner is rotting in hell. That's all I have to say about the latest episode. 

He had more in common with Caligula than JC for sure 

[Spartan Girl]

3 minutes ago, xls said:

He had more in common with Caligula than JC for sure 

That bit from his interview where he said “Jesus forgave the whores” I just went, “Well, he never called them whores.” Creep.

[Athena5217]

Other than walking around in robes, Hugh Hefner and Jesus Christ had nothing in common.

I did not understand the part about men having their blood drawn. Was that supposed to be erotic or was it for STD testing later?

[RealHousewife]

8 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Those poor animals…

Sickening. I don't even know where to begin with this last episode. 

[xls]

Just now, Spartan Girl said:

That bit from his interview where he said “Jesus forgave the whores” I just went, “Well, he never called them whores.” Creep.

Never invited them to orgies either

[Straycat80]

Poor Sondra Theodore, I wish she had had the guts to run out of that house the minute Hef talked her into the orgies. I looked up Linda Lovelace, what a sad life she had too. Those stories about beastiality were disgusting. The only pigs on pig night were Hef and those men. 

[princelina]

2 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Showing his pattern of cutting the Gfs off from the rest of the world.. and keeping eyes on them when they were “out” and NO one thought this was odd at the time? I mean red flag red flag 

I would guess that plenty of people thought it was odd - but no one would say anything.  I've always thought that his real "turn on" was to be able to manipulate others - especially attractive young women - into doing whatever he said - the fact that his orgies involved him sitting in the "director's chair" rather than participating is exactly what I expected.   

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Poor Sondra Theodore, I wish she had had the guts to run out of that house the minute Hef talked her into the orgies. I looked up Linda Lovelace, what a sad life she had too. Those stories about beastiality were disgusting. The only pigs on pig night were Hef and those men. 

I just looked her up, and you're right, Linda had so much trauma. It's heartbreaking. I felt awful enough for her just watching this episode. I don't know if I believe in hell, but I hope it exists for all the men who used and abused her. It's astonishing how sick people can be. 

[MsTree]

Hef was an imperfect man with many sexual fetishes. Call him disgusting, but nobody put a gun to Sondra's head. And once again, long after Hef's death, we have another disgruntled woman talking shit...much in which they voluntarily were involved in.

Think about it. What do Holly & Sondra have in common? Both were painfully in love with this man, both were delusional enough to think Hef would marry them, and both were heartbroken when they finally realized Hef was just using them. See the pattern?

Um, Holly & Sondra, what part of the word "Playboy" did you not understand? By sheer definition, there's no way in hell he was ever going to marry either one of you!

And again, you BOTH stayed with him at least 5 years hoping for what??? You know what's going on is wrong, you basically want to throw up when it's over, and yet you stay?? You make a gold-digger look innocent, but you were not innocent. Ignorant maybe, but definitely not innocent.

The only smart one who actually said she "never listened to Hef" was Barbie. Girl used her brain and left when she could no longer live with him and everything going on.

[Cinnabon]

47 minutes ago, MsTree said:

Hef was an imperfect man with many sexual fetishes. Call him disgusting, but nobody put a gun to Sondra's head. And once again, long after Hef's death, we have another disgruntled woman talking shit...much in which they voluntarily were involved in.

Think about it. What do Holly & Sondra have in common? Both were painfully in love with this man, both were delusional enough to think Hef would marry them, and both were heartbroken when they finally realized Hef was just using them. See the pattern?

Um, Holly & Sondra, what part of the word "Playboy" did you not understand? By sheer definition, there's no way in hell he was ever going to marry either one of you!

And again, you BOTH stayed with him at least 5 years hoping for what??? You know what's going on is wrong, you basically want to throw up when it's over, and yet you stay?? You make a gold-digger look innocent, but you were not innocent. Ignorant maybe, but definitely not innocent.

The only smart one who actually said she "never listened to Hef" was Barbie. Girl used her brain and left when she could no longer live with him and everything going on.

You know Hef WAS married, 3 times, right?

[Keywestclubkid]

5 hours ago, MsTree said:

Hef was an imperfect man with many sexual fetishes. Call him disgusting, but nobody put a gun to Sondra's head. And once again, long after Hef's death, we have another disgruntled woman talking shit...much in which they voluntarily were involved in.

Think about it. What do Holly & Sondra have in common? Both were painfully in love with this man, both were delusional enough to think Hef would marry them, and both were heartbroken when they finally realized Hef was just using them. See the pattern?

Um, Holly & Sondra, what part of the word "Playboy" did you not understand? By sheer definition, there's no way in hell he was ever going to marry either one of you!

And again, you BOTH stayed with him at least 5 years hoping for what??? You know what's going on is wrong, you basically want to throw up when it's over, and yet you stay?? You make a gold-digger look innocent, but you were not innocent. Ignorant maybe, but definitely not innocent.

The only smart one who actually said she "never listened to Hef" was Barbie. Girl used her brain and left when she could no longer live with him and everything going on.

People handle situations differently good for Barbi being more mentally well to be be able to spot a situation and "getting out"...However would you blame a person who was caught in a marriage were they are beat are mentally broken down? Would you say well it’s their fault they hit them? This situation is NO different.. he mentally broke her down but it’s her fault cause well in the beginning before she was “trapped” in this she was voluntary there so it’s all on Her? She was 19 he was 50.  So people trapped in cults people in mentally abusive relationships etc etc it’s their fault? You get it doesn’t start like that right sondra even explained how it slowly escalated till she couldn’t say no.  I mean the people trapping them just had kinks they had no culpability in any of it? That’s like saying someone was asking to be raped because well people have kinks and they should have been prepared for anything at all times so it’s on them not the rapist 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Keywestclubkid

[Keywestclubkid]

7 hours ago, MsTree said:

Um, Holly & Sondra, what part of the word "Playboy" did you not understand?

does this apply to the bunnies that were raped by guys from the club at parties? I mean being a bunny doesn't mean that men can rape you does it?

[sadie]

Wow, this is just getting darker and darker. I can’t say I’m surprised by any of it, looking back on those old interviews with Hef definitely take on a more sinister tone now. I guess I am surprised that this was all so well controlled for 50 years and that so many of these women went along into the depths. I guess that’s the nature of manipulation and abuse. I’m also not surprised that there are people that knew him and had no idea. It’s kind of like the serial killer that lives next door or is your friend. Evil people can be very good at hiding in plain sight. I think Hef was a very sick, evil man. 

[Welshman in Ca]

People saying that it's their own fault because they wanted to be there don't understand the slow manipulation that went on and how hard it is to get away from something you know to be wrong & harmful when leaving and being in the the outside world alone is scarier.

It's very much like the saying "how do you boil a frog?"

 

 

[Gharlane]

Quote

"The Price of Loyalty". This episode explores the 1970s DEA investigation into Hefner, Playboy, and drugs through the lens of two women who lived and worked at Playboy: Hefner’s right-hand woman Bobbie Arnstein, who committed
suicide while being investigated for drug trafficking, and Playboy Bunny Adrienne Pollack, who died of a drug  overdose in 1973.

Yeah, I knew that illegal drug use was an open secret there, but I didn't realize to the extent it existed and that he made his girls (employees and playmates) run drug-fetching errands for him. I have a vague recollection of the DEA investigating Hef and the suicide of one of the Playboy girls, but I was too young to understand or have more than a passing interest when it was on the TV news. 

 

On 2/9/2022 at 11:13 AM, emma675 said:

Weed, piles of cocaine, quaaludes in multiple prescriptions, dexadrine, etc. It was a fascinating look at the "war on drugs" during that time and how Hef escaped any and all persecution of it. Bobbie Arnstein took the fall and paid the price and he just carried on.

I was amazed at the loyalty these people had for him that she killed herself rather than testify against Hef. 😲
 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Gharlane

[emma675]

And I'm getting the impression that Hefner targeted young, not often well educated women from poorer backgrounds, who were probably more easily caught up in the glamour, wealth, and celebrities and didn't notice the horror behind the scenes until they were deep in it. Plus, I don't think he paid the earlier girlfriends and didn't allow them to work, so where could they go? He was apparently a master manipulator, if Sondra's stories are true. Look what she ended up doing, even though she said she never wanted to and begged him not to make her do, before she got out. 

I will forever be furious he died before the Me, Too movement became well known. 

[sadie]

3 minutes ago, Gharlane said:

I was amazed at the loyalty these people had for him that she killed herself rather than testify against Hef. 😲
 

My take on this was different. I think she knew they were NEVER going to pin anything on Hef and that she was going to take the full fall for this. She knew Hef would feed her to the wolves. I don’t think she killed herself to protect him, I think she couldn’t face she was going to go down for a long time and was very much alone at that point. It wasn’t to protect him, it was an act of defeat. Hef was scum. 

[princelina]

33 minutes ago, sadie said:

My take on this was different. I think she knew they were NEVER going to pin anything on Hef and that she was going to take the full fall for this. She knew Hef would feed her to the wolves. I don’t think she killed herself to protect him, I think she couldn’t face she was going to go down for a long time and was very much alone at that point. It wasn’t to protect him, it was an act of defeat. Hef was scum. 

Exactly - a thousand "likes" for this!

[Josette]

I'm not sure what to make of Sondra Theodore.  Before this series, I saw her in Curse of the Chippendales on Discovery+ (will be airing on ID soon).  She talked about going to the club while she was Hef's girlfriend, she even brought him once because he was curious, and at least once she went home with one of the dancers.  I wouldn't have thought she was being kept on a short leash based on that interview.

Also, it was hard to follow her train of thought.  She talked about getting an IUD and then she was bleeding in the bathroom.  Was she blaming the IUD?  I don't know.

Anyhow, it's interesting that Hefner said Christ forgave "the whores".   It sounds like he viewed the women of Playboy as whores.  He claimed he want to sexually liberate women, but he really just wanted them to be whores for men.

[qtpye]

6 hours ago, emma675 said:

And I'm getting the impression that Hefner targeted young, not often well educated women from poorer backgrounds, who were probably more easily caught up in the glamour, wealth, and celebrities and didn't notice the horror behind the scenes until they were deep in it. Plus, I don't think he paid the earlier girlfriends and didn't allow them to work, so where could they go? He was apparently a master manipulator, if Sondra's stories are true. Look what she ended up doing, even though she said she never wanted to and begged him not to make her do, before she got out. 

I will forever be furious he died before the Me, Too movement became well known. 

His relationship with Barbie was so different. When he was interviewing with Barbie and she said that women have as much right to fool around with men and that he was a chauvinist pig but she still loved him...I was thinking that Holly would have never dared to act like that.

His later girlfriends seemed like brainwashed sister wives who were just there for eye candy and nodding along with everything he said.

After Barbie it seemed like he did not want a woman who was his equal. He just wanted them to be minions and sex toys for his amusement.

Again, none of this is surprising but it still is petty awful.

Sondra seemed to have aged much more than anyone else. I was afraid they were going to tell us that she was sick and had passed away by the end of the program.

[heatherchandler]

 

On 2/4/2022 at 3:15 PM, Cinnabon said:

 

It was depressing to me that so many young women in the 2000s (and beyond) bought into this crap about “empowering” yourself by making themselves into what they thought men would find sexy. Becoming sex objects for men’s pleasure. Aspiring to be men’s masturbation fodder. All of this opened society up to make self absorbed, fake people like the Kartrashians popular and rich. It encouraged a new generation of young women to believe that their physical appearances were more valuable than anything else they had to offer. Society regressed and it’s been extremely harmful to women, imo. 
 

The early 2000s 3rd wave (or maybe 4th wave) "feminism" was a total farce.  That BS empowerment movement really did harm women and it continues, like you said with the Kardashians and of course Jessica Simpson and Paris Hilton, pretending to be ditzy "sexy babies."  

 

19 hours ago, emma675 said:

I hope Hugh Hefner is rotting in hell. That's all I have to say about the latest episode. 

Same.  I actually wish all of this had come out when he was still alive so he could be taken down in shame.  I am sad that he got to live out his life without ever having to answer for his horrible treatment of women.

 

19 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

That bit from his interview where he said “Jesus forgave the whores” I just went, “Well, he never called them whores.” Creep.

Disgusting.  And the fact that he is comparing himself to JESUS... 

 

19 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Sickening. I don't even know where to begin with this last episode. 

When they were discussing the dog, I almost threw up.  I was physically ill.

 

[Gharlane]

Quote

"The Circus". After decades of silence, Hefner's former number one girlfriend Sondra Theodore shares her story detailing how she was groomed by him to participate in his increasingly abusive sex life. Sondra's testimony shines a spotlight on Hefner's mechanisms for controlling and breaking women.

Hokey smokes! This man was more like Caligula than Jesus.
 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Gharlane

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

When they were discussing the dog, I almost threw up.  I was physically ill.

Ugh, I'm sorry. I found that part triggering myself, and I got more emotional reading about Linda's life. I was never stunned by things I read in the girlfriends books. Hef screamed sexist to me. This documentary has shed some serious light though. He wasn't just a "chauvinistic pig" as Barbi described him, he was a sick man. How did these men have it in them to get a drunk and drugged woman to perform oral sex on a dog? 

Anyone who's a survivor of sexual abuse, this series could be really hard to watch. 

[MsTree]

21 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

You know Hef WAS married, 3 times, right?

I did. The first to Kristie's mother. Then Kimberly (Cooper & Marsden's mom), and Crystal last.

[MsTree]

18 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

People handle situations differently good for Barbi being more mentally well to be be able to spot a situation and "getting out"...However would you blame a person who was caught in a marriage were they are beat are mentally broken down? Would you say well it’s their fault they hit them? This situation is NO different.. he mentally broke her down but it’s her fault cause well in the beginning before she was “trapped” in this she was voluntary there so it’s all on Her? She was 19 he was 50.  So people trapped in cults people in mentally abusive relationships etc etc it’s their fault? You get it doesn’t start like that right sondra even explained how it slowly escalated till she couldn’t say no.  I mean the people trapping them just had kinks they had no culpability in any of it? That’s like saying someone was asking to be raped because well people have kinks and they should have been prepared for anything at all times so it’s on them not the rapist 

RE: the bold sentence -- that was her first mistake. I never said the kinky person shouldn't be culpable for their behavior. In fact, I said it was disgusting IF he did all they claim. And since he's dead he can't defend himself...which is another thing. Why now, years after he's dead are they coming out with this story? What exactly do they hope to gain by sullying his legacy?

Sorry, but I don't see Hef, the girls & house guests as a "cult"...so I refuse to equate him with the likes of Charles Manson. 

And since Sondra DID recognize how things slowly escalated, she should have immediately said 'no'. In order to recognize that, she would have been in a sound mind. Nobody was holding a gun to her head. She only stayed because she thought her relationship was going to pay. And when she finally realized after 5 years that was never going to happen, she finally got up and walked out. 

[MsTree]

15 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

does this apply to the bunnies that were raped by guys from the club at parties? I mean being a bunny doesn't mean that men can rape you does it?

No, being raped by party guys does not apply at all. Cosby is/was worst offender! And No, it does not mean ANY woman (including bunnies) should be raped by men.

I am a victim of rape and would never condone such despicable/disgusting behavior!