Secrets Of Playboy - General Discussion

[Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, MrBuhBye said:

Was Jennifer’s mother deceased or an addict?  Back then mothers almost always got custody and even if she didn’t you would think she would object to the child living at the mansion.  I assume the doctor had his own house as well?

She had a mom, but I recall it being a complicated relationship. It’s been years since I read her book. But Hef was definitely a predator , wanting to have sex with an underaged teen. 

[Gharlane]

Quote

"The Bunnies & the Cleanup Crew". Playboy hired the most attractive women in the world by promising an environment where they would always be protected, but outside of the Playboy Mansion, the Bunnies faced dangers and abuses that were covered up by the Playboy "cleanup crew."

This sounds weird, but I felt a bit let down by this ep because they didn't really cover the bad things until the second half and when they did, they were very vague about it, except for the time the host of Soul Train took two young bunnies to his house, where he had them drugged and tied up in locked rooms and took turns sodomizing for several days and the time some men pretending to be VIPs tricked a bunch of them into going to their cabin in the woods, where the men recorded themselves doing things to them for several days.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Gharlane

[emma675]

I don't know how I feel about this latest episode. I was horrified by the story of the two sisters (rot in hell, Don Cornelius) but I was kind of left feeling like why, why didn't the bunny mother or someone, anyone do more at the time? I know she felt powerless and the women who worked at the clubs wanted so badly to keep their jobs, but at what price? Why did they all stay quiet for so long? How many lives were ruined during those years and are probably still in shambles? What a horrible mess.

I did like hearing about the inside of the bunny clubs, although it was pretty much as gross as I expected. Those costumes looked horrible to wear and the bunny dip to serve drinks makes my back hurt. I wonder how much money it took to put up with back problems, shoes filled with blood, and being harrassed and stalked by "VIPs"? It makes me sad that those women thought they had power while in the costume and that many of them had no other good options to support themselves. 

The clean up crew sounds like something out of the mafia. Make the problems go away, stay out of the media, and protect Hef. Gross. 

[CeeBeeGee]

Barbi Benton was better known in entertainment during the late '70s-early '80s, when I remember seeing her on quite a few episodes of things like The Love Boat and Fantasy Island. (I was a kid and didn't realize she was Hef's GF.) She is probably the most beautiful woman he's ever dated--back when he didn't seemingly have a deep aversion to brunettes. I like Holly and Bridgette but that endless parade of bottle-blondes in the aughts just looked so cheap. Holly looks ridiculously gorgeous now.

Anyone who is interested in the Bunny experience needs to read Gloria Steinem's fantastic article about how she was an undercover Bunny. There was a great TV-movie made from it, starring Kirstie Alley--you might be able to find it on YouTube.

This most recent episode was absolutely horrifying. Their policy seemed to waver so much from year to year, club to club, incident to incident. Why was the VIP rapist of the black lady kicked out when Don Cornelius was allowed back in? Hef didn't need his celebrity.

Someone talked about the undercurrent of GND--the Christmas episode I have to admit is the only one I've watched more than once. And as much as I love it (snow in LA! Carving stations at the buffet! Baby boys dressed up as elves!), everytime I see that disgusting blanket with Kendra, Bridget and Holly climbing all over each other, naked, I get nauseated. Why would you put something like that on a blanket and give it to someone? It's not tasteful--it's demeaning to them. (And I have no problem with the way Playboy photo shoots used to look. It was beautiful photography.)

Holly's narrative seems completely credible to me.

Jennifer's story was horrific. I'm going to get her book at the library.

[Straycat80]

This latest episode was just horrific! Those poor girls! And that Don Cornelius story! What a pig!  The clean up crew sounded mafia like. Apparently Playboy had law enforcement in their corner. I know it was a different time and people thought different but damn!  Like the one woman said about rape victims fearing being victimized if they reported their abuse. I guess ‘the good old days’ where definitely not that if you worked at Playboy. 

[Athena5217]

42 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Anyone who is interested in the Bunny experience needs to read Gloria Steinem's fantastic article about how she was an undercover Bunny. There was a great TV-movie made from it, starring Kirstie Alley--you might be able to find it on YouTube.

I remember seeing that movie. I was only 10 so I probably missed a lot of the horrors implied (because movie on network TV). I’ve never read the article, but I just found a scan of it: https://undercover.hosting.nyu.edu/s/undercover-reporting/item/13088

Edited February 1, 2022 by Athena5217
Added link to article

[CeeBeeGee]

14 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

I remember seeing that movie. I was only 10 so I probably missed a lot of the horrors implied (because movie on network TV). I’ve never read the article, but I just found a scan of it: https://undercover.hosting.nyu.edu/s/undercover-reporting/item/13088

I was 15-16 when it aired and the point of the movie--how these sexualized women supported each other in a difficult environment--went waaaay over my head. Because my takeaway was "Wow! I want to be a Playboy Bunny!" I loved those outfits. (Upon rewatching it, I could appreciate its message better.)

[RealHousewife]

4 hours ago, emma675 said:

I don't know how I feel about this latest episode. I was horrified by the story of the two sisters (rot in hell, Don Cornelius) but I was kind of left feeling like why, why didn't the bunny mother or someone, anyone do more at the time? I know she felt powerless and the women who worked at the clubs wanted so badly to keep their jobs, but at what price? Why did they all stay quiet for so long? How many lives were ruined during those years and are probably still in shambles? What a horrible mess. 

I don't even know where to begin with this third episode. I was horrified too. Those poor girls. I wonder how they're doing today and what they think of the documentary. 

https://people.com/crime/don-cornelius-former-soul-train-host-accused-of-sexual-assault-in-secrets-of-playboy-docuseries/

4 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Barbi Benton was better known in entertainment during the late '70s-early '80s, when I remember seeing her on quite a few episodes of things like The Love Boat and Fantasy Island. (I was a kid and didn't realize she was Hef's GF.) She is probably the most beautiful woman he's ever dated--back when he didn't seemingly have a deep aversion to brunettes.

Barbi was a naturally beautiful, beautiful woman. She looked like a doll. Carrie Leigh was also a complete knockout in face and figure. It seemed like if Hef dated a brunette she had to be exceptionally hot. The blondes really varied tbh. 

3 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I was 15-16 when it aired and the point of the movie--how these sexualized women supported each other in a difficult environment--went waaaay over my head. Because my takeaway was "Wow! I want to be a Playboy Bunny!" I loved those outfits. (Upon rewatching it, I could appreciate its message better.)

I actually related to the woman who said that being a Bunny made you feel beautiful like a Playmate, but you didn't have to get naked. When I was younger, the idea of being one sounded cool to me. 

[Gharlane]

10 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Someone talked about the undercurrent of GND--the Christmas episode I have to admit is the only one I've watched more than once. And as much as I love it (snow in LA! Carving stations at the buffet! Baby boys dressed up as elves!), everytime I see that disgusting blanket with Kendra, Bridget and Holly climbing all over each other, naked, I get nauseated. Why would you put something like that on a blanket and give it to someone? It's not tasteful--it's demeaning to them.

I suspect that was the intent of that tacky blanket.

[Cinnabon]

I just can’t get over how so many of these women accepted that Hef could have multiple girlfriends at the same time, yet they had to remain faithful only to him. How is that empowering women? And giving them a curfew? If men can have more than one girlfriend, then women can have more than one boyfriend. It just incenses me that so many people have just accepted this over the years.

[RealHousewife]

10 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I just can’t get over how so many of these women accepted that Hef could have multiple girlfriends at the same time, yet they had to remain faithful only to him. How is that empowering women? And giving them a curfew? If men can have more than one girlfriend, then women can have more than one boyfriend. It just incenses me that so many people have just accepted this over the years.

They wouldn't have accepted the curfews and multiple partners being okay only for their partner if it weren't for what they got out of it. He wanted several women for sex and his image, and they all wanted the lifestyle most men who'd respect them couldn't provide.  

Also, a lot of their girlfriends weren't faithful, they'd just hide their boyfriends from Hef. He wanted everyone to think he was this huge stud.   IRC, Holly and Bridget were both faithful. I think Bridget separated from her husband to move in and be a girlfriend. 

On 1/31/2022 at 4:02 PM, Lone Wolf said:

To be clear, I'm no fan of Hefner but I don't think he was a predator like Cosby, Epstein, and Weinstein.  I think he was selfish and manipulative, but he was not without redeeming qualities.  I don't think he was as evil as he's being portrayed.   

There are definitely different levels of creepiness. I never would have grouped Hef with those men, but I was pretty disturbed that he thought it would be acceptable to have sex with an underage teen he watched grow up and treated like a daughter. On GND, he was like the world's most charming dirty old man, but he had a very dark side. 

[TrixieTrue]

On 2/1/2022 at 4:56 AM, CeeBeeGee said:

Someone talked about the undercurrent of GND--the Christmas episode I have to admit is the only one I've watched more than once. And as much as I love it (snow in LA! Carving stations at the buffet! Baby boys dressed up as elves!), everytime I see that disgusting blanket with Kendra, Bridget and Holly climbing all over each other, naked, I get nauseated. Why would you put something like that on a blanket and give it to someone? It's not tasteful--it's demeaning to them. (And I have no problem with the way Playboy photo shoots used to look. It was beautiful photography.)

 

 

7 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I just can’t get over how so many of these women accepted that Hef could have multiple girlfriends at the same time, yet they had to remain faithful only to him. How is that empowering women? And giving them a curfew? If men can have more than one girlfriend, then women can have more than one boyfriend. It just incenses me that so many people have just accepted this over the years.

 

I really like the Christmas episode, too. The blanket, eh. It was kind of tacky, but some of us have a high level of tackiness within us. I think the girls liked doing the photo shoot and were happy with the pictures, so the blanket was just a way to celebrate that. I wonder if there was a different picture on the other side. Like an individual photo of each of them. I think I only saw one of the blankets again, right in the episode that followed. 

I have a theory that while the initial attraction was a glamorous lifestyle, some of the women also really enjoyed and appreciated the female friendships. There are very few people they could have openly talked to about their life and because it's such a unique way to live, they came to rely on one another. It seems like most of the women had a best friend in the house. 

 

[emma675]

I caved and rewatched the first two episodes of the Girls Next Door and wow, it is crazy how much time makes a difference in how I percieved that show. Hef comes off like a doddering, sweet grandpa, the women say some really mean things about the other women who come into the mansion, Holly is even more awkward than I remember, Kendra is even younger and more annoying than I remember, and there are dogs and dog shit everywhere. They don't really even hint at the weird sex and rules at all, they make it seem like Hef is a sweet old man just sheltering and supporting these women out of the good of his heart. It also tries to make appearing in Playboy seem like this grand accomplishment and dream that would skyrocket these women into success. It's wild. 

[RealHousewife]

46 minutes ago, emma675 said:

I caved and rewatched the first two episodes of the Girls Next Door and wow, it is crazy how much time makes a difference in how I percieved that show. Hef comes off like a doddering, sweet grandpa, the women say some really mean things about the other women who come into the mansion, Holly is even more awkward than I remember, Kendra is even younger and more annoying than I remember, and there are dogs and dog shit everywhere. They don't really even hint at the weird sex and rules at all, they make it seem like Hef is a sweet old man just sheltering and supporting these women out of the good of his heart. It also tries to make appearing in Playboy seem like this grand accomplishment and dream that would skyrocket these women into success. It's wild. 

That about sums it up. lol

I never understood the women shedding tears over doing Playboy or becoming Playmate of the Year or whatever. I get it's a major ego boost, there's some money, and slim possibility you'll be the next Pamela or Jenny McCarthy. But it's hardly a Nobel Peace Prize! 

[CeeBeeGee]

6 hours ago, emma675 said:

Kendra is even younger and more annoying than I remember

That f***ing laugh. When Holly said in her book that Kendra invented that laugh for more airtime, that it wasn't how she normally laughed, I absolutely bought it. Could never figure out why Hef asked her to be a GF--she's not attractive IMO, or intelligent and she's irritating.

[RealHousewife]

22 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

That f***ing laugh. When Holly said in her book that Kendra invented that laugh for more airtime, that it wasn't how she normally laughed, I absolutely bought it. Could never figure out why Hef asked her to be a GF--she's not attractive IMO, or intelligent and she's irritating.

I can get easily annoyed by voices. There's a Real Housewife I really like and find so sweet, but her voice isn't the most pleasant to me. I actually thought Kendra's laugh was funny and cute. At least I did back then. It's been so many years since I watched GND. As for looks, beauty's in the eye of the beholder. I think Kendra is a pretty girl, and she can be quite funny. Sadly though, I think Hef probably saw a young blonde who was vulnerable. Intelligent women are less likely to fall for someone like him and put up with all the rules and craziness. 

[Tatum]

21 hours ago, emma675 said:

It also tries to make appearing in Playboy seem like this grand accomplishment and dream that would skyrocket these women into success. It's wild.

It is really sad. I mean, I get it in a way, the competition is totally fierce, In its heyday, probably thousands of women were submitting photos on a daily basis. And the ones who bothered to submit were already probably used to being one of the most attractive women in the room at any given time. Even not getting cut right off the bat was probably a major feat. So I get the ego boost thing, but at the end of the day, other than bragging rights, the majority of the women probably didn't get much out of it. Maybe some women thought it would launch their careers or  snag them a rich professional athlete husband (the latter at least, seems to happen with some regularity), but mostly it seemed to be a way for women with low self esteem to get validation.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

It is really sad. I mean, I get it in a way, the competition is totally fierce, In its heyday, probably thousands of women were submitting photos on a daily basis. And the ones who bothered to submit were already probably used to being one of the most attractive women in the room at any given time. Even not getting cut right off the bat was probably a major feat. So I get the ego boost thing, but at the end of the day, other than bragging rights, the majority of the women probably didn't get much out of it. Maybe some women thought it would launch their careers or  snag them a rich professional athlete husband (the latter at least, seems to happen with some regularity), but mostly it seemed to be a way for women with low self esteem to get validation.

And what an empowering way for women to get validation, by posing nude for a magazine that millions of men will masturbate to. Instead of, you know, getting an education that may lead to a successful career and the ability to support oneself without a man, if a woman so desires. 

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

It is really sad. I mean, I get it in a way, the competition is totally fierce, In its heyday, probably thousands of women were submitting photos on a daily basis. And the ones who bothered to submit were already probably used to being one of the most attractive women in the room at any given time. Even not getting cut right off the bat was probably a major feat. So I get the ego boost thing, but at the end of the day, other than bragging rights, the majority of the women probably didn't get much out of it. Maybe some women thought it would launch their careers or  snag them a rich professional athlete husband (the latter at least, seems to happen with some regularity), but mostly it seemed to be a way for women with low self esteem to get validation.

 

7 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

And what an empowering way for women to get validation, by posing nude for a magazine that millions of men will masturbate to. Instead of, you know, getting an education that may lead to a successful career and the ability to support oneself without a man, if a woman so desires. 

I used to think that the women who posed for Playboy must have been the prom queens and beauties of their individual communities. While I am sure there are plenty that fit that category, I could not help but notice that most of the women who are in this documentary series fall into the "bullied for their looks in high school and then they blossomed into beauties as young adults "category.

I hate the phrase "ugly ducklings becoming swans" but I do not know how else to describe it. This is often a very insecure group who really is desperate to get male validation, at any cost. It is like they just do not feel good enough and are still trying to find a seat at the popular table.

I was an awkward-looking teenager who looked much better in my 20's. I still felt like an awkward teenager, no matter how I looked on the outside. Luckily, I focused on education and career and never based my self-esteem on whether or not men found me hot.

I think at first, posing for Playboy could actually hurt you. I think Mary said that no one wanted to hire her after she posed for Playboy and that is why she became Hef's secretary.

I remember in the late '90s and early 2000s, posing for Playboy kind of became prestigious in a weird way. I remember more accomplished women started to pose and the magazine having special issues like a "hottest lawyers" spread.

I could be remembering that wrong.

Now, being a Playboy bunny is not even really a thing anymore.

 

[Tatum]

7 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I used to think that the women who posed for Playboy must have been the prom queens and beauties of their individual communities. While I am sure there are plenty that fit that category, I could not help but notice that most of the women who are in this documentary series fall into the "bullied for their looks in high school and then they blossomed into beauties as young adults "category.

 

29 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

And what an empowering way for women to get validation, by posing nude for a magazine that millions of men will masturbate to. Instead of, you know, getting an education that may lead to a successful career and the ability to support oneself without a man, if a woman so desires. 

Right to both.

 

OK, I don't know what went through the average woman's thought process who posted a submission to Playboy back in the day (do people still do that now?). Maybe it was mostly, hey, I already know I am smoking hot, maybe I can get paid for it, but going off of a lot of early 2000s MTV programming (I am looking at you, I Want a Famous Face, aka, I Want a Boob Job So My Boyfriend Will Spank it to Me Instead of Carmen Electra/Jessica Simpson/Britney Spears) the women who aspired to be in Playboy/Maxim (those were the big 2) were super sad. They were all attractive women, but basically had no self esteem and relied on attention of men to momentarily feel better about themselves. And instead of like, trying to develop other parts of themselves they could be proud of, their thought seemed to be, yeah, men pay attention to me, but think of how much MORE they would pay attention to me if I could say I posed for Playboy/Maxim. The women seemed completely aware they'd be looked at as a trophy or status symbol...and they were 100% okay with that, because they'd be sought after.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Tatum

[qtpye]

11 minutes ago, Tatum said:

 

Right to both.

 

OK, I don't know what went through the average woman's thought process who posted a submission to Playboy back in the day (do people still do that now?). Maybe it was mostly, hey, I already know I am smoking hot, maybe I can get paid for it, but going off of a lot of early 2000s MTV programming (I am looking at you, I Want a Famous Face, aka, I Want a Boob Job So My Boyfriend Will Spank it to Me Instead of Carmen Electra/Jessica Simpson/Britney Spears) the women who aspired to be in Playboy/Maxim (those were the big 2) were super sad. They were all attractive women, but basically had no self esteem and relied on attention of men to momentarily feel better about themselves. And instead of like, trying to develop other parts of themselves they could be proud of, their thought seemed to be, yeah, men pay attention to me, but think of how much MORE they would pay attention to me if I could say I posed for Playboy/Maxim. The women seemed completely aware they'd be looked at as a trophy or status symbol...and they were 100% okay with that, because they'd be sought after.

I remember watching a tv show where an 18-year-old high schooler (technically an adult) had started posing for the nudie magazines. Her teacher was trying to tell her what a bad idea that was and she should be looking to develop more substantial skills through education.

The girl responded that she was terrible at school and never enjoyed learning (she did not have a learning disability). She also did not have any desire to go to college or learn skills in trade schools.

She knew she was incredibly attractive and she realize she had a relatively short window to capitalize on this one asset. She was like a less humorous version of that girl (not Cher or Deon) from the movie "Clueless", whose only ambition was to be a trophy wife.

Edited February 3, 2022 by qtpye

[Tatum]

Just now, qtpye said:

She knew she was incredibly attractive and she realize she had a relatively short window to capitalize on this one asset. She was like a less humorous version of that girl from the movie "Clueless", whose only ambition was to be a trophy wife.

Who was that character?

 

The above you describe is actually not as bad as what I was thinking. At least she's looking at her looks as a way to make money to support herself, not as a way to attract men to make her feel better about herself. I think it's most frustrating for me to see a woman who's self worth is completely dependent on how men see her.

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

It is really sad. I mean, I get it in a way, the competition is totally fierce, In its heyday, probably thousands of women were submitting photos on a daily basis. And the ones who bothered to submit were already probably used to being one of the most attractive women in the room at any given time. Even not getting cut right off the bat was probably a major feat. So I get the ego boost thing, but at the end of the day, other than bragging rights, the majority of the women probably didn't get much out of it. Maybe some women thought it would launch their careers or  snag them a rich professional athlete husband (the latter at least, seems to happen with some regularity), but mostly it seemed to be a way for women with low self esteem to get validation.

Everything Holly did for awhile relied on her looks-Hooters, Playboy, showgirl, etc. I understand wanting validation as a woman who struggles feeling pretty enough. That said, I don't think these women are the most insecure either. You have to consider yourself hot on some level to try out for things like Playmate. The most famous ones aren't even the cute girl next door ones, they're bombshells like Pamela Anderson and Anna Nicole Smith.

18 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

And what an empowering way for women to get validation, by posing nude for a magazine that millions of men will masturbate to. Instead of, you know, getting an education that may lead to a successful career and the ability to support oneself without a man, if a woman so desires. 

That's why I cracked up at the tears over doing Playboy and said the women acted as if it were a Nobel Peace Prize. lol 

I think a lot of them just see it as modeling. I'd die if I had nude photos out there, but some of these women grew up with Playboys around the house, and never considered it something bad. Bridget Marquardt one was one of those, and her goals were to be a Playmate and get a master's degree. She said she grew up wanting to be Playmate beautiful (which she did!), but smarts and a work ethic were also important to her. I always thought her career should have gone further. She has everything going for her, but I digress. 

5 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I used to think that the women who posed for Playboy must have been the prom queens and beauties of their individual communities. While I am sure there are plenty that fit that category, I could not help but notice that most of the women who are in this documentary series fall into the "bullied for their looks in high school and then they blossomed into beauties as young adults "category.

I hate the phrase "ugly ducklings becoming swans" but I do not know how else to describe it. This is often a very insecure group who really is desperate to get male validation, at any cost. It is like they just do not feel good enough and are still trying to find a seat at the popular table.

I was an awkward-looking teenager who looked much better in my 20's. I still felt like an awkward teenager, no matter how I looked on the outside. Luckily, I focused on education and career and never based my self-esteem on whether or not men found me hot.

I think at first, posing for Playboy could actually hurt you. I think Mary said that no one wanted to hire her after she posed for Playboy and that is why she became Hef's secretary.

I remember in the late '90s and early 2000s, posing for Playboy kind of became prestigious in a weird way. I remember more accomplished women started to pose and the magazine having special issues like a "hottest lawyers" spread.

I could be remembering that wrong.

Now, being a Playboy bunny is not even really a thing anymore.

You're right, I think it's a mix. I was fascinated by Playmates during the GND era. Some of them were always the pretty girl, but many of them thought they were ugly duckings and were bullied. 

I was an awkward-looking kid, but I looked much better my teens and beyond. Even though I know men are attracted to me, I still feel funny looking much of the time. I think my flaws probably bother me more than they would have if I weren't a funny looking child, who knows. 

Hold up, Mary posed for Playboy?! How did I not know this?

I just think women need to think long and hard before doing anything remotely like Playboy or OnlyFans. I never understood why Bridget's career didn't become bigger, but sadly the Playboy background may have hurt her despite the celebrity it gave. If you want a more traditional career, it's probably not a good idea to have nude pics anywhere. But if you've made it as a model/actor and that's the path you plan on having for many years, I can see it being worth it for women who see nudity as no big deal. It's just that very few people have career's like Jenny McCarthy or Carmen Electra. 

[qtpye]

1 minute ago, Tatum said:

Who was that character?

 

The above you describe is actually not as bad as what I was thinking. At least she's looking at her looks as a way to make money to support herself, not as a way to attract men to make her feel better about herself. I think it's most frustrating for me to see a woman who's self worth is completely dependent on how men see her.

She was a one-episode character but the show was about teachers in Boston...Boston Education or Boston Public?

Yes, I was thinking that Holly (then, not now) might fall into the category that you are speaking about. In her book, it seemed to me that some of the earlier girlfriends (before Brigette and Kendra) knew that it was a game. They were using Hef and Hef was using them. 

Holly is the one who really looked at it as a real relationship. That does not excuse the way he treated her sometimes but it could also be a clue of why she put up with much more than other girlfriends.

3 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Everything Holly did for awhile relied on her looks-Hooters, Playboy, showgirl, etc. I understand wanting validation as a woman who struggles feeling pretty enough. That said, I don't think these women are the most insecure either. You have to consider yourself hot on some level to try out for things like Playmate. The most famous ones aren't even the cute girl next door ones, they're bombshells like Pamela Anderson and Anna Nicole Smith.

That's why I cracked up at the tears over doing Playboy and said the women acted as if it were a Nobel Peace Prize. lol 

I think a lot of them just see it as modeling. I'd die if I had nude photos out there, but some of these women grew up with Playboys around the house, and never considered it something bad. Bridget Marquardt one was one of those, and her goals were to be a Playmate and get a master's degree. She said she grew up wanting to be Playmate beautiful (which she did!), but smarts and a work ethic were also important to her. I always thought her career should have gone further. She has everything going for her, but I digress. 

You're right, I think it's a mix. I was fascinated by Playmates during the GND era. Some of them were always the pretty girl, but many of them thought they were ugly duckings and were bullied. 

I was an awkward-looking kid, but I looked much better my teens and beyond. Even though I know men are attracted to me, I still feel funny looking much of the time. I think my flaws probably bother me more than they would have if I weren't a funny looking child, who knows. 

Hold up, Mary posed for Playboy?! How did I not know this?

I just think women need to think long and hard before doing anything remotely like Playboy or OnlyFans. I never understood why Bridget's career didn't become bigger, but sadly the Playboy background may have hurt her despite the celebrity it gave. If you want a more traditional career, it's probably not a good idea to have nude pics anywhere. But if you've made it as a model/actor and that's the path you plan on having for many years, I can see it being worth it for women who see nudity as no big deal. It's just that very few people have career's like Jenny McCarthy or Carmen Electra. 

I think I heard that Mary was a former playmate on GND but I could be remembering that wrong, as well.

Did Jenni McCarthy say something about how she regretted her Playboy spread and how it made things harder for her as a comedic actress?

[RealHousewife]

5 minutes ago, qtpye said:

She was a one-episode character but the show was about teachers in Boston...Boston Education or Boston Public?

Yes, I was thinking that Holly (then, not now) might fall into the category that you are speaking about. In her book, it seemed to me that some of the earlier girlfriends (before Brigette and Kendra) knew that it was a game. They were using Hef and Hef was using them. 

Holly is the one who really looked at it as a real relationship. That does not excuse the way he treated her sometimes but it could also be a clue of why she put up with much more than other girlfriends.

I think I heard that Mary was a former playmate on GND but I could be remembering that wrong, as well.

Did Jenni McCarthy say something about how she regretted her Playboy spread and how it made things harder for her as a comedic actress?

If Mary posed nude, I gotta see. lol

I haven't heard that from Jenny myself, but it's possible. 

[qtpye]

12 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

If Mary posed nude, I gotta see. lol

I haven't heard that from Jenny myself, but it's possible. 

I have not found anything about Mary being a Playmate so it probably was not true.

I think I might have read it on the old GND TWOP thread, rather than it being mentioned on the show.

This is a picture of young Mary for those who are interested.

[RealHousewife]

1 minute ago, qtpye said:

I have not found anything about Mary being a Playmate so it probably was not true.

I think I might have read it on the old GND TWOP thread, rather than it being mentioned on the show.

This is a picture of young Mary for those who are interested.

Aw she was a pretty young woman! Thank you for posting. :)

[qtpye]

Just now, RealHousewife said:

Aw she was a pretty young woman! Thank you for posting. :)

You're welcome and she certainly was pretty.

 

[TrixieTrue]

20 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

That f***ing laugh. When Holly said in her book that Kendra invented that laugh for more airtime, that it wasn't how she normally laughed, I absolutely bought it. Could never figure out why Hef asked her to be a GF--she's not attractive IMO, or intelligent and she's irritating.

If you watch the last season of the show, Kendra's laugh is different. I think she eventually let it go and laughed naturally. 

On 2/1/2022 at 4:56 AM, CeeBeeGee said:

 

Someone talked about the undercurrent of GND--the Christmas episode I have to admit is the only one I've watched more than once. And as much as I love it (snow in LA! Carving stations at the buffet! Baby boys dressed up as elves!), everytime I see that disgusting blanket with Kendra, Bridget and Holly climbing all over each other, naked, I get nauseated. Why would you put something like that on a blanket and give it to someone? It's not tasteful--it's demeaning to them. (And I have no problem with the way Playboy photo shoots used to look. It was beautiful photography.)

 

I responded to this in an earlier post, but in Holly's reaction videos, she just did the Christmas episode and mentioned the blanket. She said that at the time of the shoot, they thought the pose was funny and that when you're in that bubble, it seems normal (all of it, the pose, the blanket). But looking at it after living in the real world, you realize it's a little funny. I think she meant both funny haha and funny weird. 

[Tatum]

On 2/3/2022 at 1:20 PM, RealHousewife said:

Everything Holly did for awhile relied on her looks-Hooters, Playboy, showgirl, etc. I understand wanting validation as a woman who struggles feeling pretty enough. That said, I don't think these women are the most insecure either. You have to consider yourself hot on some level to try out for things like Playmate.

Oh, I don't mean these women think they're ugly. But a lot of them are super insecure. It's not enough for them to know they're hot just by looking a mirror. They need to be admired. It reminds me of that scene in Shallow Hal, where Hal asks his friend how he would feel dating someone who he considered the hottest woman in the world, but that everyone else thought  was ugly. He said he wouldn't care, because he would know she was hot. I think it's the opposite for these women- they think they're hot, but they still need to hear it from everyone else. Frequently. Whereas a confident beautiful woman (or hell, a confident average looking woman) would be like fuck what these guys think, I know I'm hot.

 

ETA: I was just lazy using the word "hot". I am fully aware that a lot of women take confidence from things completely unrelated to looks. An average looking woman might think, yeah I'm average looking, who cares? I'm awesome in every way that counts :).

Edited February 4, 2022 by Tatum

[Cinnabon]

51 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Oh, I don't mean these women think they're ugly. But a lot of them are super insecure. It's not enough for them to know they're hot just by looking a mirror. They need to be admired. It reminds me of that scene in Shallow Hal, where Hal asks his friend how he would feel dating someone who he considered the hottest woman in the world, but that everyone else thought  was ugly. He said he wouldn't care, because he would know she was hot. I think it's the opposite for these women- they think they're hot, but they still need to hear it from everyone else. Frequently. Whereas a confident beautiful woman (or hell, a confident average looking woman) would be like fuck what these guys think, I know I'm hot.

 

ETA: I was just lazy using the word "hot". I am fully aware that a lot of women take confidence from things completely unrelated to looks. An average looking woman might think, yeah I'm average looking, who cares? I'm awesome in every way that counts :).

Honestly, looking back on the women in Hef’s harem during the 2000s, they don’t look “hot” to me. They just look trashy and fake, with their bleached long hair, fake tans, and fake breasts and noses. They looked old and used up before their times. Holly didn’t need a breast augmentation or a nose job. She was unique and beautiful already. And I’m sure that’s true of most of the other women. Hef played into their insecurities by encouraging and paying for these unnecessary surgeries. What would’ve empowered these women would have been to help pay for their educations or career trainings of some kind. 

i just wish one of those reporters had asked Hef how having a harem of girlfriends who weren’t allowed to have other boyfriends advanced women’s liberation and empowerment (both goals he touted). The women didn’t have sexual freedom at all. They were prohibited from earning their own money, dating anyone else, and couldn’t even come and go as they pleased. They weren’t allowed sexual autonomy- sex had to be on his terms only, and they had to submit whether they wanted to or not.

In his younger years, he did play a part in supporting positive societal progress, in  supporting abortion rights, decriminalization of marijuana and the repeal of 19th-century sex laws.

but by the 2000s, his actions and attitudes seemed very regressive and misogynistic. 
 

Reporters and the media asked the women if they could date others, but they never asked HEF about his regressive rules. Why?

Edited February 4, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Tatum]

3 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

What would’ve empowered these women would have been to help pay for their educations or career trainings of some kind. 

That's why I hate him. Since he viewed these women as so ornamental and like basic human blow up dolls, who CARES if they live with him for a few years, working or going to school, bank their allowances, and then swan off? (This assumes they were still doing their duties of escorting him to his various events and participating in sex nights). There would have been another young woman ready to take her place in a heartbeat. You can't tell me he was emotionally attached to his late 90s harem of women. But no- these women had to be dependent on him, to the point where they were potentially locked out if they missed curfew. I don't think it was a bleached blond D cup woman polishing his knob that really got him off- it was the power and control.

[qtpye]

41 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Honestly, looking back on the women in Hef’s harem during the 2000s, they don’t look “hot” to me. They just look trashy and fake, with their bleached long hair, fake tans, and fake breasts and noses. They looked old and used up before their times.

Some of them really looked terrible and far from "hot".

Holly and Kendra look a million times better now. Kendra has gone for a darker light brown hair color and looks younger/fresher now than she did then.

[Cinnabon]

38 minutes ago, Tatum said:

That's why I hate him. Since he viewed these women as so ornamental and like basic human blow up dolls, who CARES if they live with him for a few years, working or going to school, bank their allowances, and then swan off? (This assumes they were still doing their duties of escorting him to his various events and participating in sex nights). There would have been another young woman ready to take her place in a heartbeat. You can't tell me he was emotionally attached to his late 90s harem of women. But no- these women had to be dependent on him, to the point where they were potentially locked out if they missed curfew. I don't think it was a bleached blond D cup woman polishing his knob that really got him off- it was the power and control.

Exactly, and that’s the opposite of the liberation and empowerment he touted for decades. Looks like only men were liberated and empowered in his world. He clearly valued literature, philosophy, art, music, and discussion of these things. Back when the magazine featured interviews and stories, they were done well and fascinating. The magazine’s interview subjects included Bertrand Russell, Jean-Paul Sartre and Malcolm X. He published the fiction of Ray Bradbury, Vladimir Nabokov, Kurt Vonnegut, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, James Baldwin, and Joh n Updike. But looking back, it seemed discussion of them was only for men. Women were to pose and look sexy, not be equals in education and intellect. When men divorced (as he did, very young and leaving a wife and 2 small kids), he didn’t support men and women taking equal parts in raising their kids. Divorces freed men up and liberated THEM, while leaving the childcare solely on the women. Not at all liberating and empowering for the women.  In later years, he clearly still valued discussion with other men, playing chess, etc but his bleached blonde, female playthings weren’t often a part of their discussions. Nor did he encourage their learning about art, music, or literature. He detested the “women’s lib” movement and allowed rapes and abuse of the bunnies at his clubs. Clearly, his was a world in which women were still inferior to men. Most of what he accomplished gave MEN more freedom to do as they pleased, having affairs, etc. Women weren’t welcome to do the same as equals.

It was depressing to me that so many young women in the 2000s (and beyond) bought into this crap about “empowering” yourself by making themselves into what they thought men would find sexy. Becoming sex objects for men’s pleasure. Aspiring to be men’s masturbation fodder. All of this opened society up to make self absorbed, fake people like the Kartrashians popular and rich. It encouraged a new generation of young women to believe that their physical appearances were more valuable than anything else they had to offer. Society regressed and it’s been extremely harmful to women, imo. 
 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Cinnabon

[RealHousewife]

3 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Hef played into their insecurities by encouraging and paying for these unnecessary surgeries. What would’ve empowered these women would have been to help pay for their educations or career trainings of some kind. 

i just wish one of those reporters had asked Hef how having a harem of girlfriends who weren’t allowed to have other boyfriends advanced women’s liberation and empowerment (both goals he touted). The women didn’t have sexual freedom at all. They were prohibited from earning their own money, dating anyone else, and couldn’t even come and go as they pleased. They weren’t allowed sexual autonomy- sex had to be on his terms only, and they had to submit whether they wanted to or not.

In his younger years, he did play a part in supporting positive societal progress, in  supporting abortion rights, decriminalization of marijuana and the repeal of 19th-century sex laws.

but by the 2000s, his actions and attitudes seemed very regressive and misogynistic. 
 

Reporters and the media asked the women if they could date others, but they never asked HEF about his regressive rules. Why?

I agree with the general consensus that Hef wasn't a good guy. He sounds like he could be pretty cruel and had a dark side. I also understand why women like Holly felt traumatized and had a hard time leaving. Where I view things a bit differently than a lot of folks here is that while I understand Hef coming across like a relatively charming old man at first and all of that, I would never expect a man who has a harem of women young enough to be his grand daughter to truly care about these women on a deep level or care about their futures. He SCREAMED misogynistic. This wasn't an older man and younger woman truly falling in love and supporting each other. He wanted the girlfriends for their bodies; they wanted him for the lifestyle. If a man only values women for their breasts and not their brains, I would absolutely expect him to pay for boob jobs and not college tuition. You don't go to Hugh Hefner to get training/school paid for; you'd apply for scholarships, go to community college, things of that nature. You went to Hef to party, get plastic surgery, and pose for Playboy. 

Yes, traditionally you'd be shocked and appalled if a man wanted to be able to do whatever he wanted but the woman couldn't. But there was nothing normal, healthy or feminist about anything to do with the arrangement. I'm a live and let live person, so if some people are happy being 1/3 or 1/7 of what makes an old dude happy and vice versa, more power to them. But I don't get the disbelief that Hef wasn't a sweet old man who wanted to take care of young women. That was always obvious. He didn't have all these busty blondes living with him out of the goodness of his heart. He wanted to feel like he owned them and was this Playboy that was enough for any woman. Obviously bullshit, but it was what he wanted to sell, and the women seeing other men would get in the way of that. 

There are a lot of people who are very progressive in some ways, but extremely regressive in other ways. I don't look at Hef as a champion of women. He made a fortune showing off women's beauty in Playboy, and he didn't waste his breath on women older than 20s (other than 30something Bridget). If you love women, you'd want them for more than the physical, would grow old with them, cherish them no matter what they looked like, not prey on them but protect them, stuff plenty of other men manage to do, including ones Hefner's generation. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by RealHousewife

[qtpye]

29 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I agree with the general consensus that Hef wasn't a good guy. He sounds like he could be pretty cruel and had a dark side. I also understand why women like Holly felt traumatized and had a hard time leaving. Where I view things a bit differently than a lot of folks here is that while I understand Hef coming across like a relatively charming old man at first and all of that, I would never expect a man who has a harem of women young enough to be his grand daughter to truly care about these women on a deep level or care about their futures. He SCREAMED misogynistic. This wasn't an older man and younger woman truly falling in love and supporting each other. He wanted the girlfriends for their bodies; they wanted him for the lifestyle. If a man only values women for their breasts and not their brains, I would absolutely expect him to pay for boob jobs and not college tuition. You don't go to Hugh Hefner to get training/school paid for; you'd apply for scholarships, go to community college, things of that nature. You went to Hef to party, get plastic surgery, and pose for Playboy. 

Yes, traditionally you'd be shocked and appalled if a man wanted to be able to do whatever he wants but the woman can't. But there was nothing normal, healthy or feminist about anything to do with the arrangement. I'm a live and let live person, so if some people are happy being 1/3 or 1/7 of what makes an old dude happy and vice versa, more power to them. But I don't get the disbelief that Hef wasn't a sweet old man who wanted to take care of young women. That was always obvious. He didn't have all these busty blondes living with him out of the goodness of his heart. He wanted to feel like he owned them and was this Playboy that was enough for any woman. Obviously bullshit, but it was what he wanted to sell, and the women seeing other men would get in the way of that. 

There are a lot of people who are very progressive in some ways, but extremely regressive in other ways. I don't look at Hef as a champion of women. He made a fortunate showing off women's beauty in Playboy, and he didn't waste his breath on women older than 20s (other than 30something Bridget). If you love women, you'd want them for more than the physical, would grow old with them, cherish them no matter what they looked like, not prey on them but protect them, stuff plenty of other men manage to do, including ones Hefner's generation. 

Very well said.

[sadie]

13 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I agree with the general consensus that Hef wasn't a good guy. He sounds like he could be pretty cruel and had a dark side. I also understand why women like Holly felt traumatized and had a hard time leaving. Where I view things a bit differently than a lot of folks here is that while I understand Hef coming across like a relatively charming old man at first and all of that, I would never expect a man who has a harem of women young enough to be his grand daughter to truly care about these women on a deep level or care about their futures. He SCREAMED misogynistic. This wasn't an older man and younger woman truly falling in love and supporting each other. He wanted the girlfriends for their bodies; they wanted him for the lifestyle. If a man only values women for their breasts and not their brains, I would absolutely expect him to pay for boob jobs and not college tuition. You don't go to Hugh Hefner to get training/school paid for; you'd apply for scholarships, go to community college, things of that nature. You went to Hef to party, get plastic surgery, and pose for Playboy. 

Yes, traditionally you'd be shocked and appalled if a man wanted to be able to do whatever he wanted but the woman couldn't. But there was nothing normal, healthy or feminist about anything to do with the arrangement. I'm a live and let live person, so if some people are happy being 1/3 or 1/7 of what makes an old dude happy and vice versa, more power to them. But I don't get the disbelief that Hef wasn't a sweet old man who wanted to take care of young women. That was always obvious. He didn't have all these busty blondes living with him out of the goodness of his heart. He wanted to feel like he owned them and was this Playboy that was enough for any woman. Obviously bullshit, but it was what he wanted to sell, and the women seeing other men would get in the way of that. 

There are a lot of people who are very progressive in some ways, but extremely regressive in other ways. I don't look at Hef as a champion of women. He made a fortune showing off women's beauty in Playboy, and he didn't waste his breath on women older than 20s (other than 30something Bridget). If you love women, you'd want them for more than the physical, would grow old with them, cherish them no matter what they looked like, not prey on them but protect them, stuff plenty of other men manage to do, including ones Hefner's generation. 

This this this! You hit the nail on the head here. He wasn’t a wolf in sheeps clothing, he was an obvious wolf. I always thought he was gross for obvious reasons. 

[bilgistic]

23 hours ago, Tatum said:

That's why I hate him. Since he viewed these women as so ornamental and like basic human blow up dolls, who CARES if they live with him for a few years, working or going to school, bank their allowances, and then swan off? (This assumes they were still doing their duties of escorting him to his various events and participating in sex nights). There would have been another young woman ready to take her place in a heartbeat. You can't tell me he was emotionally attached to his late 90s harem of women. But no- these women had to be dependent on him, to the point where they were potentially locked out if they missed curfew. I don't think it was a bleached blond D cup woman polishing his knob that really got him off- it was the power and control.

 

23 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Exactly, and that’s the opposite of the liberation and empowerment he touted for decades. Looks like only men were liberated and empowered in his world. He clearly valued literature, philosophy, art, music, and discussion of these things. Back when the magazine featured interviews and stories, they were done well and fascinating. The magazine’s interview subjects included Bertrand Russell, Jean-Paul Sartre and Malcolm X. He published the fiction of Ray Bradbury, Vladimir Nabokov, Kurt Vonnegut, Saul Bellow, Bernard Malamud, James Baldwin, and Joh n Updike. But looking back, it seemed discussion of them was only for men. Women were to pose and look sexy, not be equals in education and intellect. When men divorced (as he did, very young and leaving a wife and 2 small kids), he didn’t support men and women taking equal parts in raising their kids. Divorces freed men up and liberated THEM, while leaving the childcare solely on the women. Not at all liberating and empowering for the women.  In later years, he clearly still valued discussion with other men, playing chess, etc but his bleached blonde, female playthings weren’t often a part of their discussions. Nor did he encourage their learning about art, music, or literature. He detested the “women’s lib” movement and allowed rapes and abuse of the bunnies at his clubs. Clearly, his was a world in which women were still inferior to men. Most of what he accomplished gave MEN more freedom to do as they pleased, having affairs, etc. Women weren’t welcome to do the same as equals.

It was depressing to me that so many young women in the 2000s (and beyond) bought into this crap about “empowering” yourself by making themselves into what they thought men would find sexy. Becoming sex objects for men’s pleasure. Aspiring to be men’s masturbation fodder. All of this opened society up to make self absorbed, fake people like the Kartrashians popular and rich. It encouraged a new generation of young women to believe that their physical appearances were more valuable than anything else they had to offer. Society regressed and it’s been extremely harmful to women, imo. 
 

Thank y'all for these very insightful takes on the whole matter. I'm seeing too much "they used each other," and I'm internally screaming. We live in a cisheteropatriarchal society in which white men have and have always had the power. Hefner called women "girls," literally infantilizing, objectifying and fetishizing them to be second-class citizens (to be generous) to him. He used them in every single way possible and tossed them out when his whims changed.

I watched half of the first episode and I was disgusted. I don't think I'll continue because I'm too enraged. I'm not learning anything new or valuable. Burn it all down, including the "new" Playboy that "distanced" themselves from Hefner.

[Tatum]

15 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Thank y'all for these very insightful takes on the whole matter. I'm seeing too much "they used each other,"

Agreed. A very rich man wanting to turn women into performing monkeys for his own amusement, and a group of women willing to be degraded because they were getting some sort of compensation for it are not the same thing- this was never an even power dynamic in place.

[Cinnabon]

22 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I agree with the general consensus that Hef wasn't a good guy. He sounds like he could be pretty cruel and had a dark side. I also understand why women like Holly felt traumatized and had a hard time leaving. Where I view things a bit differently than a lot of folks here is that while I understand Hef coming across like a relatively charming old man at first and all of that, I would never expect a man who has a harem of women young enough to be his grand daughter to truly care about these women on a deep level or care about their futures. He SCREAMED misogynistic. This wasn't an older man and younger woman truly falling in love and supporting each other. He wanted the girlfriends for their bodies; they wanted him for the lifestyle. If a man only values women for their breasts and not their brains, I would absolutely expect him to pay for boob jobs and not college tuition. You don't go to Hugh Hefner to get training/school paid for; you'd apply for scholarships, go to community college, things of that nature. You went to Hef to party, get plastic surgery, and pose for Playboy. 

Yes, traditionally you'd be shocked and appalled if a man wanted to be able to do whatever he wanted but the woman couldn't. But there was nothing normal, healthy or feminist about anything to do with the arrangement. I'm a live and let live person, so if some people are happy being 1/3 or 1/7 of what makes an old dude happy and vice versa, more power to them. But I don't get the disbelief that Hef wasn't a sweet old man who wanted to take care of young women. That was always obvious. He didn't have all these busty blondes living with him out of the goodness of his heart. He wanted to feel like he owned them and was this Playboy that was enough for any woman. Obviously bullshit, but it was what he wanted to sell, and the women seeing other men would get in the way of that. 

There are a lot of people who are very progressive in some ways, but extremely regressive in other ways. I don't look at Hef as a champion of women. He made a fortune showing off women's beauty in Playboy, and he didn't waste his breath on women older than 20s (other than 30something Bridget). If you love women, you'd want them for more than the physical, would grow old with them, cherish them no matter what they looked like, not prey on them but protect them, stuff plenty of other men manage to do, including ones Hefner's generation. 

My issue here was more about his own claims about how much he contributed to the liberation and empowerment of women. It seems he liberated/normalized  men leaving their stifling marriages and feeling free to have as much sex as they wanted without strings . He did support abortion, so I do consider that contributing to women’s choices and freedoms , but men also benefited greatly there. 

Again, I just wanted to see the media put him on the spot and ask him why he thought it was ok for him to have multiple girlfriends, and they weren’t free and empowered to do the same. Why were the women asked about this but the reporters never asked him about it? 
 

 

 

 

 

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I'm seeing too much "they used each other," and I'm internally screaming. We live in a cisheteropatriarchal society in which white men have and have always had the power. Hefner called women "girls," literally infantilizing, objectifying and fetishizing them to be second-class citizens (to be generous) to him. 

I don't think anyone here wanted to trigger anyone, nor equate Hugh Hefner's actions with those of young women trying to make it in Hollywood as models/actresses. 

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

Agreed. A very rich man wanting to turn women into performing monkeys for his own amusement, and a group of women willing to be degraded because they were getting some sort of compensation for it are not the same thing- this was never an even power dynamic in place.

Using each other doesn't mean the actions were the same. My point was there was no love in those relationships. Lots of us here are huge fans of the GND, including Holly Madison, but think Hef on the other hand was a huge creeper. I've bought Holly's books. If I equated any life choice she's made with Hugh Hefner's, I wouldn't' be a fan and make a point to support her. I'd get her book from the library if I simply wanted some gossip.  

@qtpye and @sadie Thank you, I thought I might get flack but wanted to share my honest opinions.

I'll also continue to be honest and say I'm not the type of woman to be instantly offended being referred to as a girl (though I agree it was different from Hef, who didn't respect women), and I'm also not the type of feminist who thinks if you have anything unflattering to say about women that you're siding with monsters. I find that unfair, and what I personally find infantilizing is the idea that women in their 20s couldn't possibly grasp Hef wouldn't see them as equals or care about them on a deep level. There's a difference between that and finding out just how much creepier and crueler he could be. 

[Gharlane]

On 2/3/2022 at 1:56 PM, qtpye said:

I think at first, posing for Playboy could actually hurt you. I think Mary said that no one wanted to hire her after she posed for Playboy and that is why she became Hef's secretary.

What? Are you talking the old woman from GND?

On 2/3/2022 at 1:56 PM, qtpye said:

I remember in the late '90s and early 2000s, posing for Playboy kind of became prestigious in a weird way. I remember more accomplished women started to pose and the magazine having special issues like a "hottest lawyers" spread.

Heh. That reminds me of the time Lori and her friend submitted photos to get invited to a Playboy party in the 1st season of RHoOC.

[RealHousewife]

Kimberly Hefner made a statement. Some other Playmates/Playboy Bunnies also defended Hef. 

https://people.com/tv/hundreds-of-past-playboy-employees-playmates-defend-hugh-hefner-in-open-letter/

[MsTree]

Thanks for posting the link. I have to agree with everything said about Holly. Some people (Holly in this instance) just can't let go of a grudge. 

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, MsTree said:

Thanks for posting the link. I have to agree with everything said about Holly. Some people (Holly in this instance) just can't let go of a grudge. 

You're welcome MSTREE.

I didn't realize Scott Baio's wife's was a gf and her time at the mansion overlapped with Holly's.

Brande Roderick is another one of the girlfriends defending him. I was actually really curious what she'd have to say, because I always thought she seemed like one of the nicest women Hef dated.

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/former-playmate-brande-roderick-defends-hugh-hefner-amid-claims/

[MsTree]

23 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

You're welcome MSTREE.

I didn't realize Scott Baio's wife's was a gf and her time at the mansion overlapped with Holly's.

Brande Roderick is another one of the girlfriends defending him. I was actually really curious what she'd have to say, because I always thought she seemed like one of the nicest women Hef dated.

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/former-playmate-brande-roderick-defends-hugh-hefner-amid-claims/

I didn't know about Baio's wife either!  Another good article in US Magazine. I always like Brande too. 

It just saddens me when some women use their connection with a famous person to sell stuff and/or get attention in a not-so-nice way. I'm sure some of what she says may not have been a good experience for HER, but that was not necessarily the consensus of everyone else who knew and loved Hef. 

By the same token, I'm sure Hef had his ways that may not have been Kosher with others, but by no means do I believe he was mean or malicious. He was just Hef, living out his childhood fantasies....and if that wasn't the lifestyle you wanted, then the door swings both ways.

[Cinnabon]

Scott Baio’s wife is a bigoted, hateful twunt.

[Gharlane]

12 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Kimberly Hefner made a statement. Some other Playmates/Playboy Bunnies also defended Hef. 

https://people.com/tv/hundreds-of-past-playboy-employees-playmates-defend-hugh-hefner-in-open-letter/

Personal experiences with Hugh Hefner may vary. 

[RealHousewife]

7 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Scott Baio’s wife is a bigoted, hateful twunt.

I don’t know much about her, but I thought her husband had used the n word. 

38 minutes ago, Gharlane said:

Personal experiences with Hugh Hefner may vary. 

Definitely. Brandi is known for being kind, and I respect her opinion. However, my guess is Hef was kinder and less strict with her because this was a young woman with loving family and a career that was going incredibly well. Hef did make her Playmate of the Year, but she also became a Baywatch babe. I believe Brandi still had her own apartment and had nights away from the mansion. Her experience was very different from some of the other girlfriends. 

[princelina]

On 2/5/2022 at 4:37 PM, Cinnabon said:

My issue here was more about his own claims about how much he contributed to the liberation and empowerment of women. It seems he liberated/normalized  men leaving their stifling marriages and feeling free to have as much sex as they wanted without strings . He did support abortion, so I do consider that contributing to women’s choices and freedoms , but men also benefited greatly there. 

He wanted the women to be liberated enough to sleep with him and his friends without having to marry them 😄