The Books, The Movies, The Show: Compare And Contrast

[PeterPirate]

Disparu reacts to the showrunners' podcast.  

At one point Payne and McKay suggest that what we see on the screen is not what happens, but is only an interpretation of what happens in the eyes of one of the characters in the screen.  The only thing Halbrand did that was definitive was throw the crest on the table and then pick it up.  

So maybe the mithril did not heal the leaf.  Durin only thought that's what happened.  

Quite a different way to have to watch a TV show, I must say.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Camera One]

3 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

The showrunners' podcast.  

I haven't listened to it yet, but maybe this is one of those shows where listening to the showrunners' thoughts is actually not a good idea.  🤨

[PeterPirate]

On 10/24/2022 at 6:42 PM, Camera One said:

I haven't listened to it yet, but maybe this is one of those shows where listening to the showrunners' thoughts is actually not a good idea.  🤨

Yeah.  I'm glad there are people out there who are willing to listen to them for us.  Disparu is a very sharp guy and I'm glad he's used that to make a successful channel.  

He also agrees with me about Galadriel's lack of agency.  That's why I put the video here instead of the Media thread.  

Edited October 29, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Camera One]

From article: 

Quote

In the show, the Elven rings are made first, not last as they are in Tolkien's legendarium. Now, writer Gennifer Hutchison has explained why the change was necessary.

"So much of the season was about the Elves and their journey, and Galadriel’s journey, and the fading [of Eregion]," she recently told Inverse(opens in new tab). "So, we wanted to tie those rings into that story. It was about narrowing our focus down on them and having those rings cap off the season. Because we had to make rings. It felt like the climax of that arc, as opposed to trying to manage the timeline in a different way."

I really didn't get the sense that "so much of the season" was about the Elves.  The realm of the Elves was hardly explored except they had one dying tree.  

I just didn't find this explanation very satisfactory. 

[Camera One]

If they wanted the rings being forged to "cap off" the end of Season 1, why didn't they just tweak the sequence of what happened?  They could have Halbrand giving the smiths of Eregion/Celebrimbor the idea to forge a bunch of rings with a single drop of mithril in each.  For this, it would have been ideal if they changed the pacing of the whole season and have Halbrand arriving in Eregion one episode earlier to provide a bit more time for him to gain the trust of Celebrimbor.

After that, Galadriel deduce his identity and can confront Halbrand/Sauron, who leaves. 

Then, Galadriel actually tells Elrond and Celebrimbor that Halbrand = Sauron, and that's when they create the 3 rings in secret with the rest of Elrond's mithril sample (which Halbrand did not see, so he assumed they used up all the mithril already). 

Then at the end of Season 2, Halbrand/Sauron attacks the Dwarves to get mithril (if they must do this mithril plot), and then forges the One Ring at Mount Doom.  Then in Season 2 or 3, he can attack Eregion to steal the lesser rings and distribute.

That would have kept a bit more of the books while not changing what the show writers seem to want to do.  Unless the entirety of Season 2 relies on Galadriel keeping everything secret from Elrond and Celebrimbor.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Camera One

[SueB]

I started watching The Rings is Power but couldn’t give it my full attention so I just finished my binge watch of S1.  It was spectacular.  
 

My POV on ‘canon’ for ‘The Rings of Power’: this series is ‘canon consistent’ but not always ‘canon compliant.’  I’m cool with it. 
Canon compliant is frankly difficult to achieve for any story-teller.  It depends on the import of the canon details.  Example: We never even saw Glorfindel in Jackson’s trilogy, he gave the chase to the ford to Arwen.  An Alternate Universe is where Aragon marries Eowyn (for example). This series is not an AU IMO. 
 

Elements I loved:

- S1 did a good job of of making Sauron sympathetic til he was revealed.  I did not suspect until he was talking with Celebrimbor about how to make the rings of power. THEN, and only then, was I suspicious.  And I like Galadriel’s culpability.  
- How Mordor was made.  (Caveat: Mt Doom is not geologically correct - but then the world starting out flat is also a stretch). Loved the toxic fume and ash pouring out as a logical backstory.  
- Gandalf being first found by Halflings. 
- Foretelling of Numenor’s destruction.  Epic. 
- Durin & Disa and Elrond’s friendship.  It shows Elrond was always more I don’t care there are no beards. 
 

Liked:

- Galadriel starting off not so wise.  She’s got a long journey ahead to being the regal queen.  
- Creation of Arondil/Browyn/Theo and the family they form.  I enjoyed the noticeable difference between Silven and Nordor Elves.
- Muriel turning into a wise leader.  
 

Dislikes:

- Isildur is a brat.  Realistic, but a brat none-the- less
- Gil-Galad being so sketchy.  His ego is a good issue to explore but his motives too vague. 
-   Meeting of Galadriel and Halbeand at sea. Seems to too convenient 

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

I started watching The Rings is Power but couldn’t give it my full attention so I just finished my binge watch of S1.  It was spectacular. 

Meeting of Galadriel and Halbeand at sea. Seems to too convenient 

There's a few suspicious coincidences all through Tolkien lore. Gollum losing the ring just in time for Bilbo to find it? Surely that's a big one. :)

[Camera One]

It can still be later revealed in later seasons that Halbrand's meeting with Galadriel at sea was not a true coincidence.

I do think though, that when you are writing a prequel, coincidences need to be put under a microscope more than "coincidences" in the original story. 

If nothing coincidental happened in stories, there would often be no interesting premise to build upon.  Why did Dorothy's house happen to land on the Wicked Witch of the East?  Heck, why was her house the one that got lifted up by the tornado.   Well, it did, and that's what made the story interesting.   If Gollum lost his ring, someone else could have conceivably found it, especially if The Ring wants to be found.  It just so happened that in this story, it turned out to be Bilbo.

On the other hand, if you are making characters meet when they didn't in the original, it better be under believable circumstances, and it better make sense given the later canonical events and characterization.

[PeterPirate]

In the chapter Shadow of the Past in FOTR, Gandalf is explicit about how the One Ring "abandoned" Gollum in an attempt to re-unite with its master.  He goes on to say that another power was at work which caused it to be picked up by Bilbo Baggins.  

Behind that there was something else at work, beyond any design of the Ring-maker. I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by its maker. In which case you also were meant to have it. And that may be an encouraging thought.

I fully expect that next season we will see Sauron use his powers to maneuver his way into meeting with Galadriel.  And probably the encounter with Elendil's ship as well.  

[Anduin]

You can certainly get away with one or two, I feel. If they propel the plot. You need something to kickstart the action. But unless you're actively going for a chain of coincidences or the hand of god, it's best to leave it as one or two.

[SueB]

I’m pretty sure ‘Halbrand’ and Galadriel both remarked on the momentous nature of their first meeting.  Both had a sense of destiny in their remarks.  
 

I just am struggling with Sauron getting on a boat in the first place. 

[Anduin]

29 minutes ago, SueB said:

I’m pretty sure ‘Halbrand’ and Galadriel both remarked on the momentous nature of their first meeting.  Both had a sense of destiny in their remarks.  
 

I just am struggling with Sauron getting on a boat in the first place. 

He can't fly. Yeah, he could ride or hike overland, but he chose to sail instead. My best guess, he was sailing from one place to another when a sea monster attacked.

Of course, given my track record of predictions, he may well have fallen out of the sky onto the ship or caused the sea monster to attack. I dunno. :)

Edited December 28, 2022 by Anduin

[PeterPirate]

It's not unfathomable to think Sauron was in control of the sea monster.  In Appendix A it is revealed that Gandalf helped Thorin and his company take back Erebor because Sauron might use the Dragon "with terrible effect".

Edited December 28, 2022 by PeterPirate

[akiss]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

It's not unfathomable to think Sauron was in control of the sea monster.  In Appendix A it is revealed that Gandalf helped Thorin and his company to take back Erebor because Sauron might use the Dragon "with terrible effect".

This is what I think, as well. I think their meeting was a coincidence but the sea monster attacking was not.

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, Anduin said:

Of course, given my track record of predictions, he may well have fallen out of the sky onto the ship or caused the sea monster to attack. I dunno. :)

In modern showrunner mindset, just pick what you think viewers would be least likely to expect.

Aka Sauron put a mithril-infused homing device on Galadriel's dagger and it sent him a message just as the mean, mean Valar rejected him causing his inner demons to manifest as a sea monster while his humanity manifested as Halbrand and that's why the sea monster was hunting Halbrand in a metaphorical battle of wills when Galadriel showed up and tipped in favor of Humanity Halbrand over Sinful Sea Serpent aka Sauron. 

We will soon see Halbrand acting like Gollum talking to himself as his inner battle continues to rage on!  Now you know why there was the Gollum/Smeagol split because this facet of Sauron was cast into the One Ring after Galadriel rejected him for the last time (watch for this in the final 5 minutes of Season 2 right after Nori teaches Gandalf how to read).

Edited December 28, 2022 by Camera One

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, Anduin said:

He can't fly. Yeah, he could ride or hike overland, but he chose to sail instead. My best guess, he was sailing from one place to another when a sea monster attacked.

Of course, given my track record of predictions, he may well have fallen out of the sky onto the ship or caused the sea monster to attack. I dunno. :)

He needed to learn Gandalf’s nifty trick of travel by meteorite.

I received The Fall of Numenor for Christmas. It will be interesting to see how much it influenced the show. 

[Anduin]

25 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I received The Fall of Numenor for Christmas. It will be interesting to see how much it influenced the show. 

Me too! And I suspect not at all. The writers didn't have access to last years book, the Nature of Middle-earth. I think it's the same go here.

[BookEater]

I loved this so I thought I'd share it here. John Rhys-Davies recites the Song of Durin.