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S01.E13: The Vault

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36 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Damn damn damn.  My brain is now in a loop of totally overthinking the "ghosts can't walk through iron" issue...

I really want there to be an iron montage in next week's episode, or them testing all other things to see if they can or can't pass through them.  Just please, don't let this fun tidbit drop. 

I also want to see Jay turning the vault into his private bathroom.  😁

We don't know for sure if it was just iron itself. I thought maybe the vault was lead‐lined; if Superman can't see through it, ghosts can't walk through it?

Pete and Thorfinn both bounced off the door - so it had to be "solid" to them. Once the door was open, could they still touch it/move it/swing it back and forth? On a related note, I remember a throwaway line from early on with Trevor (I think) remarking that they pass through walls and doors, but wondering why they don't go through the floor.

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I'm kind of curious as to why Elias didn't "go down" to begin with.  Did the iron keep him from doing that?  If that's the only problem, I'm not sure why he didn't go down as soon as he stepped out of the vault.  If the final resolution was just that he was never going to change, whatever determines these things knew that.  I mean, do you need to change after death?  ARen't you done at that point?  If his unfinished business was revenge, that never happened either.  

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Had to rewatch to catch Sass’s and Thor’s reactions to the hot maid. 😁

Hetty was prettiest so had to marry Elias, which means Sam’s great-great Grandmother was Margaret, who had a moustache?

I love how Jay enjoys the ghosts’ trials and tribulations like it’s another chapter in D&D: “I love it when the mythology gets expanded” when he learned ghosts couldn’t get through the vault door, and then his glee (which offended Sass) when Jay learned Elias went to hell.

Edited by Kiddvideo
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Much like Jay, I get so excited when the mythology gets expanded! Such a great episode, Elias was a great one episode villain and I was almost as shocked as the ghosts when he went down (heh) to hell, I had no clue that was even an option but I guess it makes sense. If you can get sucked off, you can go down too. I guess the reason the ghosts are still stuck on Earth is that they need to grow as a person? Sam's mom got sucked off when she was finally honest with her daughter about how proud she was of her, and Elias went down when he said that he would never ever change. At least Elias got them an antique watch that should tide them over for awhile, and Hetty got to show her terrible husband how much she's grown as an independent woman. Sam has even conceived her that the Irish are people. Apparently. 

"You were a terrible husband, and my least favorite cousin!" Then Pete and Trevor's "wait, what?" expressions, half the fun of this show is just watching the whole cast react to things, they all do such great reaction shots. I had to watch the scene where Elias got sent to Hell three times just to catch everyone freaking out. 

So many great lines, its hard to pick my favorite, but "He's literally twirling his mustache" is the one that made me laugh the hardest. Thorfinn suggesting that Sam and Jay kill themselves so that they can all stay friends was weirdly sweet, in a Viking kind of way. But Thorfinn is willing to change and looks to become a better person! Plus, we got the whole gang, just in time to the expansion of the ghost mythology. 

This show has really become my favorite new show, I look forward to the new episode every week!

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Elias was a great one-and-done character.  Especially since we had Hetty there to give the backstory.  I admit, I actually gasped when Elias said "Good!" about the white rhinos being hunted to extinction.  "We got 'em all!"

I can't wait to find out if there are more secret passageways!  I think we're one and done with hidden ghosts though, I can't think of any other way the--admittedly good--writers could dream up another ghost trapped by a steel room.  Oh!  Maybe I can.  We haven't seen the attic yet, have we?  Maybe there's a shy ghost up there.  Maybe Elias's crazy old great-aunt that nobody talks about.  There's always the outbuildings.  We haven't seen much of them, but an estate that large would have barns, stables, garden sheds, summer houses etc.

Edited to add:  That could be a running joke.  We get an occasional episode with a "guest ghost of the week" who is discovered, then subsequently sucked off or goes down within that episode, leaving the remaining ghosts to wonder why they don't get sucked off.  I don't really see any of the regular ghosts going down, none of them are irredeemably bad like Elias was, so I don't see them going down. 

Edited by HurricaneVal · Reason: O0h! Ooh! Ooh! I had an idea! /Arnold Horshack
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21 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

"You were a terrible husband, and my least favorite cousin!"

Oooo. Right. So Sam is likely related to Elias. 
So if the maid was pregnant by Elias, an ancestor of Sam's who was into ancestry research could visit the mansion and potentially learn about their ancestor Elias from Sam.

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We already saw the "hidden" Revolutionary War ghosts so I hope there are others around when the story calls for it. I enjoy episodes with new ghosts. Even those outside the property, like at the bank and hospital.

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3 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I don't know if the builder know about ghosts. I thought they just wanted Elias dead for his money. But since ghosts can't walk though the vault, who knows? Unless it's just as simple as ghosts can't walk through iron.

Elias is a creep, but how horrible to be trapped in there for over a 100 years. Even the basement ghosts have each other and the water heater.

How awful to be stuck with your own corpse and watch it decompose.  Gah.

I loved the part where he went to hell.  Great scene and reactions from everyone.

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You'd think he'd be grateful to talk to people again. But nope. He just wanted to be a creep. No wonder he was taken down. 

I think (maybe) this speaks to how his isolation prevented him from evolving in a way that the other ghosts have, if only incrementally. At the very least, the ghosts have had to learn to co-exist peacefully with one another, which involves some amount of compromise. Elias had no such experience and came out of that vault exactly as he entered it.

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Hetty's great, great, great grandniece would be biologically related to her, not her husband 

The poster I quoted said the woman who left Sam the house was her great aunt and Hetty's great granddaughter. If that's true, then she would also have been Elias' great granddaughter - assuming Hetty had no other spouses. I'd like to see a family tree!

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Sam has even conceived her that the Irish are people. Apparently. 

"She says it, but I don't think she believes it."

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Is it possible that Hetty re-married after Elias was gone a while? If so, then possibly Sam could be from the lineage of the 2nd husband.

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2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Robber baron types in his day could spend a ridiculous amount on money on things, so I didn't find a $5000 watch to be out of the realm of possibility.

I once went on a tour of the Biltmore Estate in North Carolina, and while waiting in a hall for another tour group to pass I realized that a little etching hung on the wall without fanfare was signed by Rembrandt van Rijn. 😲

1 hour ago, HurricaneVal said:

I can't wait to find out if there are more secret passageways!  I think we're one and done with hidden ghosts though, I can't think of any other way the--admittedly good--writers could dream up another ghost trapped by a steel room.  Oh!  Maybe I can.  We haven't seen the attic yet, have we?  Maybe there's a shy ghost up there.  Maybe Elias's crazy old great-aunt that nobody talks about.  There's always the outbuildings.  We haven't seen much of them, but an estate that large would have barns, stables, garden sheds, summer houses etc.

We did see the attic in the episode centered on Alberta's creepy fan; they went up to the attic to get the trunk of her belongings including the poisoned liquor that killed her. I think the house and estate was actually Hetty's rather than Elias'—remember she grew up there as a little girl and Thorfin sang her to sleep at night.

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 I think the house and estate was actually Hetty's rather than Elias'—remember she grew up there as a little girl and Thorfin sang her to sleep at night.

Oh that's right. Which seems odd for the time, since it's unlikely they would have moved in with her parents. Perhaps she inherited the house after they died and it was preferable to wherever they were living prior to that. But wasn't his last name Woodstone? The house is called Woodstone Manor. Did they rename it? Or were both their names Woodstone, since they're cousins? 

We have so much more to learn about all of the ghosts, aside from how they died! Fingers crossed, CBS will give us plenty of chances.

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Elias totally would have renamed the house after himself.  I'm guessing the property was Hetty's dowry.  That they owed a shitload in taxes and were going to lose it and Hetty marrying Elias fixed that.

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7 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Elias is a creep, but how horrible to be trapped in there for over a 100 years. Even the basement ghosts have each other and the water heater.

😆

I go back and forth between wanting Jay to be able to see the ghosts too, and being amused by how excited he gets at hearing what is going on with them.

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8 hours ago, chaifan said:

We at least got a little more background on Hetty, even if it was a really short one liner.  She got married off to Elias as part of a land deal.  So, as mentioned above, she probably was much younger than him and outlived him by several years putting them at approximately the same death age.  I loved every bit about Hetty in this episode.  (I'll post more about this in the UK show comparison thread.)

I'm surprised Elias didn't make a snide comment about Hetty getting older.

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I know its been mentioned already but the line of the week goes to Hetty, "a terrible husband and my least favorite cousin"😂😂😂😂😂I'm still laughing😂😂😂

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1 hour ago, Fake Jan Brady said:

I'm surprised Elias didn't make a snide comment about Hetty getting older.

Given the high caliber writing for the show, no doubt they considered such a line and decided it added nothing to the episode's plot.
As an older woman, I would like to know why they made this choice, but most likely in a 20+ minute show they didn't feel they could do that topic justice with a one-liner.

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A few things I noticed on rewatch:

The opening shot is an aerial view of what is supposed to be the back of the house. (It's the same house they used in the flashback scene when Pete got shot with the arrow.) Yet it is completely different than the front of the house. Later there is an aerial shot of the front of the house that makes it clear they cannot be the same structure. The back of the house has a central tower which would be clearly visible from the front at the angle shown. You can also see, from the back, there is a similar tower on the front of the house which is absent when we see the front. I'm assuming the house they use for the "back" is an actual house, whereas the front is mostly CGI. They should have matched it up better.

Utkarsh Ambudkar has a difficult job pretending he can't see the ghosts. But there were a few continuity issues in this episode. When Thor ran at the vault door, you can see Jay following his motions in the background. Also, when Jay runs after Samantha, he would clearly have run through Elias, given where Elias is standing before and after. Finally, in the closing scene when Hetty walks into the room, Jay looks up at her before anyone indicates to him she has entered. 

I still think he's pretty much the MVP of the show, though. I loved the story about the waitress at Olive Garden he was sure was hitting on him. "You've already got me, babe. You're living Tonya's dream!" And "Why do you have to be so irresistible?" "It's a curse." I also loved him asking if you could hear country music when the hell hole opened. LOL. I feel you, Jay.

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I'm surprised Elias didn't make a snide comment about Hetty getting older.

He recognized her instantly without comment on aging, which suggests she didn't live much longer than he did. I think it's a mistake to assume she was a lot younger than him when they wed. Clearly their parents arranged the marriage. And Elias apparently died around 1890. Hetty's costume and hairstyle would not be period appropriate much later than around 1900. And given her devotion to status I doubt she would have been wearing anything out of style.

Edited by iMonrey
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1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

I still think he's pretty much the MVP of the show, though. I loved the story about the waitress at Olive Garden he was sure was hitting on him. "You've already got me, babe. You're living Tonya's dream!" 

I loved how that was something of a running joke throughout the episode, both with the Olive Garden waitress and then Kenny mentioning a similar situation at the Cheesecake Factory. 

Flower had some great one-liners this episode, too. Calling Elias "the Monopoly guy" and her definition of a follower being someone from the cult who marries a guy named Bruce. And when everyone was suggesting ways to help Jay and Sam with their financial woes, she suggested robbing a bank :p. Nice continuity there, given what we know about her history. 

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Why don't Sam and Jay explain to the ghosts that if they have to sell the house, there will be different Livings, who will probably be less cooperative?  Apparently the house had not been lived in for a while, but now that S&J have made improvements, the next owner would likely want to use it.

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11 hours ago, Gimmick Genius said:

... I remember a throwaway line from early on with Trevor (I think) remarking that they pass through walls and doors, but wondering why they don't go through the floor.

I've been thinking more about the 'physical' properties of the Ghosts. They walk through walls and closed doors, but don't sink through the floors; they sit on furniture without going 'through' and sleep in (or on) beds. Do they need to sleep or is it just custom/habit? When Nancy woke up on Pete's bed (he was sleeping on the floor) I tried to notice if the covers moved but I couldn't tell. They can touch and handle their own clothing - and touch each other's - but apparently can't disrobe or change (but Sas did talk about 'Ghost Sex'?) Do they need to breathe? They can smell things, and enjoy food aromas. Gravity obviously has some effect on them - they stand and walk but never float around like Casper... So many questions.

Edited by Gimmick Genius · Reason: spelling
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15 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So many great lines, its hard to pick my favorite, but "He's literally twirling his mustache" is the one that made me laugh the hardest. Thorfinn suggesting that Sam and Jay kill themselves so that they can all stay friends was weirdly sweet, in a Viking kind of way. But Thorfinn is willing to change and looks to become a better person!

Wasn’t he already willing to change and become a better person when he tried learning to say that he is sorry? Of course, he might be a little more motivated now that Hetty may have demonstrated a certain power.

”The wedding will become an orgy.” - “So just a normal wedding?”  I wouldn’t be surprised if Trevor had another “dude, Viking life sounds awesome” reaction to this line in the background.  These actors are truly amazing.

”Baptism? A ravenous thrustfest.”

Poor Hetty, thinking (hoping?) that her horrible husband (and least favorite cousin) could have used their anniversary date for the vault combination. I am surprised she knew the maid’s birthday though, that seems a little out of character for her.  I wouldn’t expect her to care about the help to such an extent.

Edited by shura
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7 hours ago, Driad said:

Why don't Sam and Jay explain to the ghosts that if they have to sell the house, there will be different Livings, who will probably be less cooperative?  Apparently the house had not been lived in for a while, but now that S&J have made improvements, the next owner would likely want to use it.

The ghosts want them to stay now. Plus, I think they already pretty much did explain that in the first episode.

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10 hours ago, Driad said:

Why don't Sam and Jay explain to the ghosts that if they have to sell the house, there will be different Livings, who will probably be less cooperative?  Apparently the house had not been lived in for a while, but now that S&J have made improvements, the next owner would likely want to use it.

The house was lived in by Sam's relative, the old lady who died in the first episode.  It just seemed that she was the only main resident there, maybe some help lived there, too.  But she had let the place run down and I think there was very little "living" to be had for quite some time.

8 hours ago, Gimmick Genius said:

I've been thinking more about the 'physical' properties of the Ghosts. They walk through walls and closed doors, but don't sink through the floors; they sit on furniture without going 'through' and sleep in (or on) beds.

That's the one part I can completely handwave away and doesn't bother me a bit.  It just has to be for production reasons.  Pretty much every ghost in every tv show or movie has had this "ability" for the same reason.  Everything else, the sleeping, smelling, falling, etc., are fun questions and I like that the show is including these little nuggets for us.  I'm glad there isn't a Ghost Manual and we don't have answers - pondering the questions is more fun!  (OK, I wouldn't mind if they go a little more in detail about ghost sex.)

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8 hours ago, Gimmick Genius said:

I've been thinking more about the 'physical' properties of the Ghosts. They walk through walls and closed doors, but don't sink through the floors; they sit on furniture without going 'through' and sleep in (or on) beds.

5 minutes ago, chaifan said:

That's the one part I can completely handwave away and doesn't bother me a bit.  It just has to be for production reasons.  Pretty much every ghost in every tv show or movie has had this "ability" for the same reason.  Everything else, the sleeping, smelling, falling, etc., are fun questions and I like that the show is including these little nuggets for us.  I'm glad there isn't a Ghost Manual and we don't have answers - pondering the questions is more fun!  (OK, I wouldn't mind if they go a little more in detail about ghost sex.)

Yes, while the term "comedic license" does not seem to be as much of a thing as "artistic license" or "creative license" it probably should be, IMO. 
"Comedic license" would also cover:

3 hours ago, shura said:

Poor Hetty, thinking (hoping?) that her horrible husband (and least favorite cousin) could have used their anniversary date for the vault combination. I am surprised she knew the maid’s birthday though, that seems a little out of character for her.  I wouldn’t expect her to care about the help to such an extent.

And, for me, in this show, the absurdities used for humor are done skillfully enough to also fall under the umbrella of "artistic license."
Having both great writers and great actors makes such a difference. 

Also, I grew up watching TV ghosts walking through walls without falling through floors, including reruns of the black & white series of the 1950s, Topper.
So these ghosts are behaving properly as far as I'm concerned, heh.

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20 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:
So these ghosts are behaving properly as far as I'm concerned, heh.

But they're not powerful ghosts like Captain Gregg in THE GHOST AND MRS MUIR. He could appear and disappear at will, show himself to anyone he pleased, move objects, open and close doors. Heck, his moods even controlled or influenced the local weather. These ghosts are impotent compared to him. Although, the one thing I don't remember seeing is whether he ever traveled any distance from his property.

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Ok, it seems to be just me after reading all of the posts, but I had the thought that Sam and Jay will never have a successful B & B because the same publicity on social media they were hoping for due to the wedding will end up being negative publicity due to their hitting on the groom.  Cancelling the wedding will lead to publicity about why they cancelled it and have an overall negative impact future business for them.

Even if there isn't much value in a pocket watch-that watch was gold so just the value for the gold alone would bring in a nice amount.

Am so enjoying this show and the characterizations of the ghosts!  And, and I really like that they are bringing in the contractor a bit more (I have your card on file...).

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1 hour ago, Gimmick Genius said:

But they're not powerful ghosts like Captain Gregg in THE GHOST AND MRS MUIR. He could appear and disappear at will, show himself to anyone he pleased, move objects, open and close doors. Heck, his moods even controlled or influenced the local weather. These ghosts are impotent compared to him. Although, the one thing I don't remember seeing is whether he ever traveled any distance from his property.

The Ghost and Mrs. Muir!!!! I loved that show! God, I'm old! I mean, I saw it reruns, but still, god I'm old😂😎

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Maybe Liz won't publicize why they canceled the wedding venue once it occurs to her that the hosts propositioned the groom rather than her, and how that would look to her followers.

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Apparently the house had not been lived in for a while, but now that S&J have made improvements, the next owner would likely want to use it.

Or worse, a new owner might tear it down. Then the ghosts would be living outside.

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I've been thinking more about the 'physical' properties of the Ghosts. They walk through walls and closed doors, but don't sink through the floors; they sit on furniture without going 'through' and sleep in (or on) beds.

In my mind, the reason they sit, sleep, walk, etc., is because they behave the way they are used to from when they were alive. So it's more of a mental thing. It's only when they try to physically touch something that they go thru it. So when they are sitting on furniture or walking across the floor, they are not actually touching those things, they are levitating and they just don't realize it because their astral bodies are mimicking whatever habits they are used to.

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2 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Ok, it seems to be just me after reading all of the posts, but I had the thought that Sam and Jay will never have a successful B & B because the same publicity on social media they were hoping for due to the wedding will end up being negative publicity due to their hitting on the groom.  Cancelling the wedding will lead to publicity about why they cancelled it and have an overall negative impact future business for them.

It is extremely hard to cancel a wedding so close to when it is supposed to occur. They probably still had plenty of guests show up and if Sam and Jay treated them like the wedding was still going to happen, have them take a few staged photos in exchange for a fancy wedding feast. I am sure that the venue would receive favorable reviews from everybody, except for the bride and groom. Sam and Jay only have to say that they called off the wedding and nothing more. Everybody would believe that the problems originated with the bride and groom (since everybody knows that that marriage is not going to last). There is no reason that Sam and Jay couldn't do some favorable social media themselves, since they did put in the work. 

Too bad that the Ghosts burned down that lovely Gazebo.

Edited by AnimeMania
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Should we start a thread about Ghostly Incongruities? There’s discussion (often repetitive) every episode. I personally don’t care why they can walk through most walls but not vault doors or why they don’t fall through floors or why they leave divots in cushions or why they need to sleep. They’re plot devices, and this isn’t a documentary.

Edited by Kiddvideo
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I agree that I can't see Hetty being the sort of employer who would know her employee's birthdays out of any sense of human curiosity or benevolence.  But the OG Hetty from back in the day might know at least the maids her husband was dallying with birthdays so she could be hyper alert for any slacking off on their special days and fire them forthwith.  A jealous Hetty might also make it her business to know such things, if not only in a know your enemy kind of way (she was comforted in her sleep by a Viking warrior as a child, she might have absorbed some battle strategy), but also to see if her husband gifted them anything on their special day that she could use to fire them.

Not that Elias strikes me as anyone who would care about his side piece's birthday.

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I missed the first 9 episodes of this show, I only started watching a few weeks back. It's really fun and this was my favorite of the episodes I've seen by far. When the husband literally went to Hell and they all screamed, that was the most I've laughed watching this show no doubt.

And I couldn't help but take note of the actress from Supernatural who guested. I wish she'd get a bigger role in something.

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I've been more than one converted hotel where a bank vault has been converted into a bar. Usually called "The Vault."

Sam and Jay have an awesome property to turn into a B&B: they've just solved a century old mystery, found a valuable antique, have a room where a famous jazz singer died, and which contains the site if a Revolutionary War encampment. 

And, they have brilliant cook who can open a destination restaurant.

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On 1/21/2022 at 4:20 PM, Bruinsfan said:

I once went on a tour of the Biltmore Estate in North Carolina, and while waiting in a hall for another tour group to pass I realized that a little etching hung on the wall without fanfare was signed by Rembrandt van Rijn. 😲

We did see the attic in the episode centered on Alberta's creepy fan; they went up to the attic to get the trunk of her belongings including the poisoned liquor that killed her. I think the house and estate was actually Hetty's rather than Elias'—remember she grew up there as a little girl and Thorfin sang her to sleep at night.

I live near the Biltmore and keep a season pass.  It's so beyond me to think about that lifestyle.

I adore this show.  It delights me.  I need it in this crazy world.  Something FUN.

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11 hours ago, Gimmick Genius said:

But they're not powerful ghosts like Captain Gregg in THE GHOST AND MRS MUIR. He could appear and disappear at will, show himself to anyone he pleased, move objects, open and close doors. Heck, his moods even controlled or influenced the local weather. These ghosts are impotent compared to him. Although, the one thing I don't remember seeing is whether he ever traveled any distance from his property.

In the movie, Captain Gregg went to London with Mrs Muir.  It would be nice if the ghosts could travel, if only for Trevor to discover a total lack of Blockbusters and Circuit City stores among modern retailers.

But, to me, this episode reflected the smaller gatherings demanded by COVID protocols.  No bridesmaids, no guests, no extra staff to serve at the wedding?  The Hollywood extras that would have been in the background 3 years ago are missed.

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Yeah, they really should have made the bride and groom's visit earlier than the day before the wedding to explain the lack of preparations evident.

 

3 hours ago, kwnyc said:

I've been more than one converted hotel where a bank vault has been converted into a bar. Usually called "The Vault."

Sam and Jay have an awesome property to turn into a B&B: they've just solved a century old mystery, found a valuable antique, have a room where a famous jazz singer died, and which contains the site if a Revolutionary War encampment. 

And, they have brilliant cook who can open a destination restaurant.

Don't forget the pre-Columbian Viking bones dug up in the driveway. The place is a goldmine of historical interest!

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Sam and Jay have an awesome property to turn into a B&B: they've just solved a century old mystery, found a valuable antique, have a room where a famous jazz singer died, and which contains the site if a Revolutionary War encampment.

8 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Don't forget the pre-Columbian Viking bones dug up in the driveway.

And a cholera pit for epidemiology buffs, with a rotating exhibit about water heaters. This month - deliming!

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I agree that I can't see Hetty being the sort of employer who would know her employee's birthdays out of any sense of human curiosity or benevolence.

It's possible Elias made a show of gifting his mistress on her birthday, which I believe was November 1st. That would be easy enough for Hetty to remember.

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On 1/22/2022 at 6:07 AM, shura said:

I am surprised she knew the maid’s birthday

Certainly neither Hetty nor Elias would likely know the maid's birthday IRL in those days. A lot of people didn't keep track of birthdays pre-Hallmark.

But both Comedy and Fantasy insert a lot of unrealistic or fish-out-of-water plot devices into the story, and here we have both comedy and fantasy. 
For me, it worked.

Hetty suggesting using the maid's birthday probably amused me because it was something I could imagine nowadays. 
Anyway, the ghosts have been watching a lot of TV, so she might have been inspired by that, and then maybe Elias was the first person to ever use his paramour's birthday for a combination lock--which would actually fit with his seeming sex obsession.  

Using the mistress's birthday for a wall safe has been used in mystery shows or novels, but even more so as a password to a laptop or file folder, so we are all familiar with it. 

Non-savvy computer users are often easily hacked because the password was easily guessed by the clever detective, whether it is a lover's birthday or Fido's birthday.

I'm glad that it was Hetty who guessed the numbers and out-smarted Elias. She's a woman, she's an older person, and she's not tech savvy, but she proved to be Smarter Than The above-Average Bear.
Hetty being Sam's ancestor is an added bonus.

BTW, I googled the history of combination locks on safes, and that part does seem to be realistic:

Quote

...The rotary combination lock (or permutation lock, as it was more commonly called at the time) underwent significant development in the United States from the 1830s to the 1900s, with many patents for new and improved combination lock designs being successively filed by many American inventors from the 1830s to the 1860s alone. The fierce commercial competition among these inventors appears to reflect a climate of heightened commercial and public demand for high-security safes in the USA as the century developed....

--from safeoptions.co.uk/blog/history-of-safes-and-secure-deposit-boxes/

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On 1/21/2022 at 1:19 PM, chaifan said:

Damn damn damn.  My brain is now in a loop of totally overthinking the "ghosts can't walk through iron" issue.  (Or, as Jay put it, ghost mythology.)  You think that by now one of those ghosts would have stubbed their toe on a cast iron tub, or tripped over an iron door stop, or a kid's toy truck, or somehow run into something made out of iron.  When they walk through a door, what about the doorknob?  When they walk through a wall, what about nails?  What about leaded glass windows - can they go through those?  We've seen ghosts in Jay's car - steel is made from iron, so how did they get in the car?  How did Hetty get expelled from the car?  So. Many. Questions.

It probably has to be pure iron to stop a ghost.

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15 hours ago, shura said:

And a cholera pit for epidemiology buffs, with a rotating exhibit about water heaters. This month - deliming!

I think I might leave the on-site cholera pit out of the B&B's marketing plan.

On 1/21/2022 at 1:09 PM, Katy M said:

I'm kind of curious as to why Elias didn't "go down" to begin with.  Did the iron keep him from doing that?  If that's the only problem, I'm not sure why he didn't go down as soon as he stepped out of the vault.  If the final resolution was just that he was never going to change, whatever determines these things knew that.  I mean, do you need to change after death?  ARen't you done at that point?  If his unfinished business was revenge, that never happened either.  

I've been thinking about that. Maybe it was only any residual attachment Hetty had to him that was tethering him to the earthly plane, and when she realized he would never even try to become a worthwhile person that snapped?

Edited by Bruinsfan
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7 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I've been thinking about that. Maybe it was only any residual attachment Hetty had to him that was tethering him to the earthly plane, and when she realized he would never even try to become a worthwhile person that snapped?

I'm thinking it was the public declaration that he was never going to change or stop trying to screw thing up (pun unintended) for the living people in the house that probably did it.

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7 hours ago, The Crazed Spruce said:

I'm thinking it was the public declaration that he was never going to change or stop trying to screw thing up (pun unintended) for the living people in the house that probably did it.

That's what I think too. Whatever higher power or cosmic energy or whatever is keeping the ghosts around is apparently trying to get them to grow as people, so Sam's mom got to go up when she was finally honest with Sam, while Elias was maybe kept around to be given a chance to redeeming himself, but when he straight up said he would never change, the universe sent him downwards. 

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Inconsequential, but looping through my brain:  If Hetty grew up in the house (sung to by Thorfinn as a child) and then she and the house were (essentially) sold to Elias, how could Elias have made secret passageways and installed vaults without her knowing it?  She grew up in the house and presumably knew it inside and out.  And surely the older ghosts saw him make changes to the house.  How did none of them wander through a secret passage over the centuries?  But it made for a good episode.

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10 minutes ago, bunnyface said:

Inconsequential, but looping through my brain:  If Hetty grew up in the house (sung to by Thorfinn as a child) and then she and the house were (essentially) sold to Elias, how could Elias have made secret passageways and installed vaults without her knowing it?  She grew up in the house and presumably knew it inside and out.  And surely the older ghosts saw him make changes to the house.  How did none of them wander through a secret passage over the centuries?  But it made for a good episode.

It looked more like one hidden room than a whole passageway.  Maybe Elias sent Hetty away on a visit.  Back then you would visit people for at least a month.  Especially if they were in Europe or something. Then, when she got back, she would have assumed he sent her away just so he had more time to make his getaway with his "floozie."  

The ghosts are more of a headscratchter.  This was not a 15 minute project.  Thor, Sass and Isaac would have been there.  Isaac may have been spying on his boyfriend and maybe Thor and Sass spent more time outside back then.  

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1 hour ago, Katy M said:

The ghosts are more of a headscratchter.  This was not a 15 minute project.  Thor, Sass and Isaac would have been there.  Isaac may have been spying on his boyfriend and maybe Thor and Sass spent more time outside back then.  

I could handwave Isaac and Thor not knowing--like you said, Isaac may have gotten caught up spying on the British soldier and not realized how much time had passed, and Thor might not have been very adventurous in the house, preferring the outdoors after Hetty grew up. But, Sass? Sass is a nosy bitch and he would have been all over construction of a secret room. I can also seem him roaming all over that house day and night throughout the years. There's no way Sass would not have known about it. 

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My fanwank is that Elias was so odious that Sass and Thorfin tried to avoid him as much as possible.  Except...that doesn't track, since both of them clearly remembered how hot the maid was.  I could see Thor not caring, but Sass?  Yeah.  He's a bit of a busybody.  But also?  Sass knowing and not saying anything is also completely, 100% Sass as well.

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I can imagine Thorfinn explaining to Sam:

  • Thorfinn not remember vault being built.
    Long time ago.
    Boring.
    More interested in maid.
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