S07.E05: Raw

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jazz's rally for Black Trans Lives is in jeopardy after her main speaker drops out. Sander goes on a second date with Hope and is surprised to learn about some of her dating criteria. Jazz confronts TS Madison about her comments on Jazz's mental health.

Original air date 2021.12.28

[Yokosmom]

Lot of cringe in this episode. 

[TMI]

Definitely morphed into the SANDER SHOW!

 

[DNR]

Looks like a pitch for her own tv show with Dr Gallagher . Jazz has ZERO medical assistance training ,no specialty training - why is she doing a procedure on a patient yikes 

[jacksgirl]

Ok, said I was giving up on this show, but bored. Who is TS Madison? No, really. An activitist? Pfffffttt. And Jenette. Why are you so involved in your children's sex lives? Get a JOB. Get a HOBBY. Volunteer. Do something besides meddling. 

[DNR]

5 minutes ago, TMI said:

Definitely morphed into the SANDER SHOW!

 

It’s really time for this show to end and let Jazz heal physically emotionally & mentally and get on with her life. It’s obviously been too much for her in recent years 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

1. I am not interested in Sander at all.  2. I do not like TS Madison at all.  I missed the start of the show but what I have seen makes me want to scream. 

Here's a clue - maybe don't date on camera so you don't have thirsty wannabes hanging around.  Then again, I am sure Sander's interest in Hope is for the storyline. This is not meant as an insult to Hope, who seems lovely.  Sander is just too into saying he is dating a trans woman for it to feel real.  Yep, we get it; Sander is okay with dating a trans woman.  That is, as long as everyone remembers that he's straight.  As straight as an arrow.  He puts the hetero in heterosexual.  He is not interested in men.  Nope, not Sander.  He says it so damn much that it shows he has issues. 

[JeanJean]

I thought the event was lovely and touching. I liked the singer/songwriter. Good job, Jazz! (I'm not a fan of Sander - I think he's just virtue signaling for his own show. I think he thinks he's sincere, though, but I wish he'd quit hogging the show.)

 Jeanette next week in lingerie? Ugh. Neither are what I watch the show for. Sander and Jeanette are not why I watch the show, although I do like Jeanette when she's not being an exhibitionist or status-seeking. She was very kind to the woman's who's child was murdered.

Edited December 29, 2021 by JeanJean

[Quilty]

I thought the event was a very good idea and what we saw of the speakers was touching. 
I hate listening to Sander talk. He’s irritating.

[suev3333]

Yay... can't wait for next week when we get to see Jeanette (sp?) complaining about her cellulite, while obviously loving and basking in all the camera attention and glow!...ugh.   really?   

Poor Jazz, getting picked on about everything she eats.   She's having a smoothie and her brother points out that she's ordered out also.   Do they realize that just calling someone out on their bad eating habits will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help them? 

[JeanJean]

21 minutes ago, suev3333 said:

 Do they realize that just calling someone out on their bad eating habits will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help them? 

And will just stress them out and make them want to eat.

Edited December 29, 2021 by JeanJean

[DNR]

TS  Madison’s butt 🤣 

the outfit 🤣 the boobs 

😱the size queen discussion…

You’re off the hook Sander! Don’t have to pretend you’re into dating trans women for the show

[TomGirl]

11 minutes ago, DNR said:

TS  Madison’s butt 🤣 

the outfit 🤣 the boobs 

I know.  One of those things you desperately want to look away from, but can’t.

[ShaNaeNae]

Everyone (including Jazz) keeps talking about how much Jazz has on her plate. “Losing weight, getting ready for school (as if those two things are 8 hour a day jobs), internship, doing this event…” If she does too much she may break down! When will everyone stop treating Jazz with kid gloves? What will happen when she gets in the real world and have to deal with a job, a significant other, children if she chooses, paying bills, etc. etc.? It was like TS Madison backs out and now Jazz will have to chair this event and all of a sudden it was too much? So it wasn’t too much for TS who has a full life as well? Also getting so sick of Sander. And Jeanette. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by ShaNaeNae

[Gramto6]

Well, I am kind of glad I gave up on this show this season. I don't watch, but read here to see what is going on and frankly I don't care! Or to quote a YouTube video I recently saw, but don't have the technical skill to post..." I don't have a fuck to give!"  Ohhh I did it!! I think!!

I have to post this on Sister Wives forum....

Edited December 29, 2021 by Gramto6

[FurBabyMama]

I thought it was very telling that when Hope backed out, and she asked they Contacted anyone else on a list she gave them, they had blank faces… were they just expecting her to do the work for them? And when Sander was talking to Hope, why didn’t he ask her to be the key speaker? She’s a black trans woman, and apparently met on social media so she must have some social media presence. And then Hope was the one who went and got TS Madison for them. 
 

it’s just so cringy to watch, I don’t know what sanders point is in being an ally. He’s basically shouting it from the rooftops, every time he’s wearing a shirt it’s pride related, he’s got flags all over the place. It’s great that you’re an ally, but when it’s sooo in your face and over the top, and not at a pride parade, it just doesn’t seem genuine. Half the people I work with are a part of the lgbtq community, and some are actually very active with pride and other events, but it’s not this sort of in your face all pride and nothing else. He’s just being such an attention whore. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I just see the activities and events as show content. Sort of like how the TLC families go on vacation, take family photos, have holiday celebration, etc.  it’s something for them to do besides exercising with Jazz or having brunch with the grandparents.  Granted, it’s a worthy cause and shows their heart is in the right place, but it’s content.  The producers likely plan most of it…the cast just follows the script.  That’s my take on it.  
 

What I would like to see is Jazz really spread her wings.  Some people struggle with schedules, but that can be managed.  Last night didn’t mom say that Jazz was 20?  She really does need to let her go. Sink or swim, it’s her life.  

[bichonblitz]

Previews showing Jeanette trying to wake Jazz up and get her ass out of bed. Jazz is gonna do great at Harvard. 

WTH with Jazz interning at the Dr. office? Has she ever mentioned doing that before? She has no business performing any type of procedure on a patient. Go back to the front desk and keep sorting boxes. 

Ts must be starving for attention wearing that embarrassing tight dress with boobs hanging out. There are no words for her butt or the concrete injected in to her cheeks. 

Sander's "love interest" Hope talking about dick size and bottom surgery sealed the deal for him. He's not in to it. He can't even fake it for the storyline any longer. Sander needs to get a hair cut and shut up. Did I hear Sander say on the phone to Hope that he doesn't have a job because he likes being at home close to his family. OMG what a loser. 

I continue to love Gregg. Why is he in this family? 

[TomGirl]

39 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Sander needs to get a hair cut and shut up.

That sums it up nicely.  Thank you!

[all4mom2]

13 hours ago, DNR said:

Looks like a pitch for her own tv show with Dr Gallagher . Jazz has ZERO medical assistance training ,no specialty training - why is she doing a procedure on a patient yikes 

Don't worry; it's just a fake technique that actually does nothing, although I'm sure she's well paid for it!

12 hours ago, TomGirl said:

I know.  One of those things you desperately want to look away from, but can’t.

Implants?  I need an explanation.

[all4mom2]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

Previews showing Jeanette trying to wake Jazz up and get her ass out of bed. Jazz is gonna do great at Harvard. 

WTH with Jazz interning at the Dr. office? Has she ever mentioned doing that before?  Hope talking about dick size and bottom surgery sealed the deal for him. He's not in to it. He can't even fake it for the storyline any longer. Sander needs to get a hair cut and shut up. Did I hear Sander say on the phone to Hope that he doesn't have a job because he likes being at home close to his family. OMG what a loser.  

It's clear Jazz is on some heavy-duty psychoactive drugs this season, which is probably why she can't wake up in the morning.  She can barely keep her eyes open, she slurs her words (even requiring closed captioning once) and is making weird repetitive movements with her lips (tardive dykinesia?).  I suspect a strong antipsychotic; remember Jeanette saying with a big smile "they finally found the right cocktail."

Jazz is required to "work" or volunteer 40 hours a week to convince Harvard to give her another chance to re-enroll (she never attended, so it's not a "return").  It's the Gallegher team/Noah because they're Jonesin' for a show of their own.

It's Peppermint, Sander's BFF, who backed out for the SECOND time (she did the same with Jazz's drag show a few years ago) and Hope who brought TS Madison.  Ally Sander is going to be forced to put his money where his mouth is; to walk the walk as well as talk it!  I thought there was going to be a throw-down and gang rape before our very eyes!!!

Greg is in this family because he's a super-nice beta male who is terrified of conflict and let his wife wear the pants.  He just never bet on THIS scenario.

Edited December 29, 2021 by all4mom2

[TomGirl]

I’m surprised we haven’t seen Noelle this season.  I’m sure the producers would’ve welcomed her back, as she’s a fan favorite, so it was probably her decision not to return.  Good on you, Noelle!

[PrincessPurrsALot]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

Sander's "love interest" Hope talking about dick size and bottom surgery sealed the deal for him. He's not in to it. He can't even fake it for the storyline any longer. Sander needs to get a hair cut and shut up. Did I hear Sander say on the phone to Hope that he doesn't have a job because he likes being at home close to his family. OMG what a loser. 

Was I the only one that thought that Sander is suddenly worried he won't measure up in peen department? 

[SongbirdHollow]

I’m just going with the assumption that they are are all basically decent people but the show is over over over produced. And the misdirections are criminal. 
 

Come on TLC! Either do better or move on. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

I am watching the bowling scene again.  So, where does one find a cow print spandex bodysuit with a deep plunge?  From what I saw, it doesn't come in plus size, but it stretches enough that with super strength spanx and plenty of grease you can make it fit. I am assuming it was glued to her foobs so there would not be an unveiling that would require excessive pixelation. 

[LekoBoy]

Do Sander and his grandmother share some sort of hereditary eye disease?  We've always seen it in Grandma, but last night I noticed it on Sander.  Don't think I've seen it on Griffin.  The rest of the family?

 

[spacefly]

10 minutes ago, LekoBoy said:

Do Sander and his grandmother share some sort of hereditary eye disease?  We've always seen it in Grandma, but last night I noticed it on Sander.  Don't think I've seen it on Griffin.  The rest of the family?

 

When this was mentioned last week I thought I remembered one of the twins having something off with his eye, now I guess it was Sander. Strabismus runs in my family and I think Sander has a corrected Strabismus and Grandma has an uncorrected or not fully corrected strabismus. My nephew's was corrected but when he is tired or stressed his eye wanders.

 

[TomGirl]

1 hour ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

 

I am watching the bowling scene again.  So, where does one find a cow print spandex bodysuit with a deep plunge?  From what I saw, it doesn't come in plus size, but it stretches enough that with super strength spanx and plenty of grease you can make it fit. I am assuming it was glued to her foobs so there would not be an unveiling that would require excessive pixelation. 

 

Like I said - impossible to look away! 🤔

[SongbirdHollow]

That cow outfit was something else. And it seemed like there should have been a nipple there given the cut but there was no nipple. I couldn’t look away. 

[all4mom2]

Frederick's of Hollywood would be my guess, assuming that still exists.  TS Madison, Hope, and Peppermint all dress like "ladies of the evening."  I'm assuming all are sexually attracted to men -- specifically, Sander Jennings?

Oh, wait; TS Madison hates all men!

Griffen actually has worse strabismus than Sander does.  With all the doctors in that family, you'd think they'd have had it addressed, as least in this generation.

Noelle has obviously been written off the show.  I thought Cousin Debbie had been, as well, but I see she turns up next week for Jeanette's "Glamour Shots."

[Shauna]

Jazz's weight gain is shocking.

 

I hate Sanders' hair with that big sweep of the bangs from one far side to the other.  It's like he doesn't know how to comb his hair.

[Onefineday]

The Sander/Hope storyline is just for show. I don't recall them showing the end of either of his "dates" with her in which he obviously did not kiss her.

With Jazz, her emotional age has caught up to her biological age and she's run out of storylines.  I miss Noelle as well, I would rather the show follow her life instead of Sander.

 

[coconutcookie]

I think the point of this season is to demonstrate that a normal heterosexual man should not care if the woman he loves was born with a vagina or has a created vagina. They are both equal.

[MsTree]

3 hours ago, coconutcookie said:

They are both equal.

Except the one who was born that way can carry and deliver a child.

[readheaded]

3 hours ago, MsTree said:

Except the one who was born that way can carry and deliver a child.

Well, maybe in theory, but not always in reality. Even women born with vaginas who can’t “carry and deliver a child” are equal and deserving of love. Likewise, so are those who were born with a vagina and can “carry and deliver a child” but choose not to. All women are more than their reproductive capabilities. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by readheaded

[bichonblitz]

16 hours ago, Shauna said:

I hate Sanders' hair with that big sweep of the bangs from one far side to the other. 

I thought that Justin Beiber hair style went out years ago. Not even Justin wears his hair like that anymore. Sander is such a nerd. 

[bichonblitz]

22 hours ago, TomGirl said:

I’m surprised we haven’t seen Noelle this season.  

I could be so wrong about this but didn't we see her in the first episode? She looked happy and was smiling? I think she had her bottom surgery and all was good. Or was I totally dreaming this? It could have just been a flashback, too. 

[Raven314]

At every turn, they seem to be forcing the narrative that Jazz’s weight gain and her surgery aren’t correlated.  This may be true; —  but their hyperbolic overemphasis on the point, only serves to draw attention to it. And it makes me wonder if, on some level, there was an agenda (possibly on the part of Jeannette) to “set the record straight” — and that’s how this season came about. Why else have so much time devoted to confronting TS Madison about her statements? They’d already discussed it once in a livestream and it ended with all parties on good terms. Why discuss the SAME points all over again this episode — when their focus was supposed to be on advocacy for black trans women, the systemic abuse they experience, and all the lives lost? I suspect this was Jeannette, feeling under pressure, trying to openly reaffirm that they made the right decision. 

I also don’t understand why the family, particularly Sander, are so hooked on the idea that “Jazz being 100 percent” equals “Jazz being forced to participate in staged public events and Jazz being the face of the trans moment”.

If that’s what she wants, fine. But it sometimes feels more like his goal than hers. 

[yankeefan]

5 minutes ago, Raven314 said:

Jazz being forced to participate in staged public events and Jazz being the face of the trans moment”.

This.  I realize we only see a highly scripted and highly edited version of Jazz's life, but right now she's not exactly screaming "healthy, well adjusted role model.". Jazz is obviously struggling and I would think some time out of the public eye would help.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

37 minutes ago, Raven314 said:

At every turn, they seem to be forcing the narrative that Jazz’s weight gain and her surgery aren’t correlated.  This may be true; —  but their hyperbolic overemphasis on the point, only serves to draw attention to it. And it makes me wonder if, on some level, there was an agenda (possibly on the part of Jeannette) to “set the record straight” — and that’s how this season came about. Why else have so much time devoted to confronting TS Madison about her statements? They’d already discussed it once in a livestream and it ended with all parties on good terms. Why discuss the SAME points all over again this episode — when their focus was supposed to be on advocacy for black trans women, the systemic abuse they experience, and all the lives lost? I suspect this was Jeannette, feeling under pressure, trying to openly reaffirm that they made the right decision. 

I also don’t understand why the family, particularly Sander, are so hooked on the idea that “Jazz being 100 percent” equals “Jazz being forced to participate in staged public events and Jazz being the face of the trans moment”.

If that’s what she wants, fine. But it sometimes feels more like his goal than hers. 

To me, both the focus on Jazz's weight and bringing in folks like TSM to go on about it and Jazz being shoved into the limelight at events are just ways for them to keep the money train, er, show going. While they are pushing Jazz to lose weight and get qualified to go to Harvard, why aren't they also pushing Sander to get a job? Other than desperate-appearing social media and monitoring Jazz, what does he do all day? 

[TomGirl]

5 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

On 12/29/2021 at 12:13 PM, TomGirl said:

 

I could be so wrong about this but didn't we see her in the first episode?

I don’t remember that.  OTOH, the list of things I don’t remember is a long one!  🤪

[jacksgirl]

Agree. Let Sander and Jeanette be the family face of transgender rights and let Jazz practice a lot of privacy and positive self care. 

 

[all4mom2]

21 hours ago, coconutcookie said:

I think the point of this season is to demonstrate that a normal heterosexual man should not care if the woman he loves was born with a vagina or has a created vagina. They are both equal.

Are heterosexual men attracted to trans women?  Is it even okay to ask this?  It seems that would be a fairly important question...  And obviously this season is seeking to answer it, whether truthfully or not.

Edited December 31, 2021 by all4mom2

[kicotan]

19 minutes ago, all4mom2 said:

ARE heterosexual men attracted to trans women?  Is it even okay to ask this?  It seems that would be a fairly important question...  And obviously this season is seeking to answer it, whether truthfully or not.

Exactly-and Sander is hetmansplaining to the audience, interspersed with skits of potential situations, regarding what the appropriate response is.  I feel like I’m sitting in the cafeteria with every other girl in school, watching the poorly produced film about sanitary pads and such.

Meanwhile, Jazz’s name is still in lights, bless her 💜

[all4mom2]

10 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

I thought that Justin Beiber hair style went out years ago. Not even Justin wears his hair like that anymore. Sander is such a nerd. 

I suspect he's trying to hide a (premature) receding hairline.  I have to wonder if Jazz's sudden interest in wigs point to the same thing.

[Muffyn]

Jazz shows no signs of a receding hairline.  The wigs seem to be her having a bit of fun and trying a new look.  She is neither the first nor the last woman to do so.  She looked cute in some of the wigs. 

As far as Sander's interest in transgender women, Sander is desperate to be on TV, so this is a storyline he has chosen.  The show is supposed to be about a transgender woman (although Jazz seems to be more of a supporting character this season).  Whether Sander is actually attracted to Hope or any other transgender woman, to me, it in no way whatsoever answers whether or not any other cisgender heterosexual man is or is not attracted to any specific woman or to transgender women in general.  People are people, not categories.  Even on the various reality shows and documentaries that include transgender folks, I have seen all kinds of combinations of couples: trans/cis, heterosexual/homosexual/pansexual . . . .   I know happy, long term couples with heterosexual men and transgender women.  I also know several cis/trans lesbian couples. 

If this were reality and not reality TV, Sander would figure out if he really has a connection with Hope off camera.  Then they could determine whether or not things will be workable for them sexually.  Regardless of any concerns related to the genitalia that either partner has, people have been meeting, getting to know each other, and figuring out if they are interested in something further for a very long time.  They do not typically do it on camera with obnoxious people there to grill them on whether or not they plan to have another date. 

[MsTree]

19 hours ago, readheaded said:

Well, maybe in theory, but not always in reality. Even women born with vaginas who can’t “carry and deliver a child” are equal and deserving of love. Likewise, so are those who were born with a vagina and can “carry and deliver a child” but choose not to. All women are more than their reproductive capabilities. 

Never said they aren't deserving of love. Everyone deserves love. Just saying that a normal heterosexual man might care if the woman he loves was born with a vagina or has a created vagina because they are not equal in the sense I described.

And while the difference might not be an issue for you or me, it MIGHT be an issue for some men. 

[Muffyn]

Some people very much want to have children.  It is true that Jazz cannot bear a child; neither can Hope.  Unlike on so many TV shows where grown adults marry but somehow never discuss whether or not they want and/or can bear children prior to getting married, in real life most people do have some kind of discussion about it.  So I agree there are men who would not be interested in a serious relationship based on their inability to have children.  They also might not be interested in a cisgender woman who cannot have children.  I am personally uncomfortable with so much emphasis on whether the vagina was there when a girl was born or created later. 

Certainly there are heterosexual men who would not consider having sex or having a long term relationship with a transgender woman.  There are also many men who fetishize them.  And there are heterosexual men for whom whether a woman is cisgender or transgender is irrelevant.  I'm not sure I would categorize any of these groups as more normal than another.  

There are also more people not categorizing their sexuality so strictly, with an increase of folks identifying as pansexual, demisexual, queer, etc. However, it is much harder for trans folks to date.  Everyone on the show seems to be acknowledging that.

And, as we know, Sander is the straightest straight man ever.  Sander is so straight he has trouble getting into a chair because his straightness doesn't bend. He's so straight his vision automatically blurs when he's in the locker room so that he cannot see other men naked. He's so straight he has GOOP vagina candles so he can enjoy the aroma of Gwyneth Paltrow's vagina all night long.  

[MsTree]

15 hours ago, Muffyn said:

It is true that Jazz cannot bear a child; neither can Hope. 

Didn't Hope tell Sander that she did not have bottom surgery? And she may never have it. In that case, it's a moot point either way.

[Granny58]

On 12/31/2021 at 2:14 AM, MsTree said:

Never said they aren't deserving of love. Everyone deserves love. Just saying that a normal heterosexual man might care if the woman he loves was born with a vagina or has a created vagina because they are not equal in the sense I described.

And while the difference might not be an issue for you or me, it MIGHT be an issue for some men. 

I wouldn't have wanted to marry a trans man because I wanted children.  As it turned out, I had a hormone problem and difficulties in that area, but to start off at a point where it's a no-go certainly wasn't for me.