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S01.E04: Some of My Best Friends

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11 hours ago, Rai said:

Also, airbnbs may be illegal, but there are still plenty of them to be found in the city. But that's too much work for Carrie to manage, let's be real.

Totally agree both that the law does NOT stop AirBnBs from happening and that that's way too much for Carrie and she doesn't need to do it anyway.

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15 hours ago, Marley said:

If Miranda and Steve aren’t having sex and she’s unhappy why doesn’t she talk to him. I think it’s stupid they are breaking them up. If they are doing that and I’m pretty sure they are. There’s so many better storylines they could be doing with Miranda and Steve. Also I don’t believe Miranda would be so weird about weed.

Recalling Miranda walking up to total strangers in her “skinny jeans” to ask for weed, I agree that she shouldn’t be so weird about it. Unfortunately, It’s believable for her character now. She has strayed so far from the original Miranda that she’s unrecognizable in nearly every aspect. I’m not enjoying it, but I understand.

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2 hours ago, Cosmocrush said:

Regarding the real estate etc.  I look at it like I did SATC and Friends:  it's not real.  It's not a documentary, it's a story.  Maybe because I don't live in NYC (and never have) I just don't mind it. 

Was Friends also OTT as far as the lifestyles of the characters? 

I love SATC for the fantasy element, but sometimes I think Carrie could have been written a little more realistically. The others weren't as unbelievable. I'm also one who thinks Charlotte came from money so she didn't live on just her job. Samantha was a hotshot with PR. Miranda was an attorney. It was really only Carrie who seemed to come from a humble background and have a job that doesn't pay a ton either. 

Edited by RealHousewife
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45 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Was Friends also OTT as far as the lifestyles of the characters? 

Oh yes.  When the show started Monica was a 25-27 year old (?) doing odd jobs in the cooking world trying to become a chef.  She had a two bedroom apartment in Greenwich Village.  Then she took in her college friend in the pilot of the show, Rachel, who didn't have a job or money at all.  They excused this by saying that Monica inherited the apartment from her grandmother who had it rent controlled, I believe.  Chandler and Joey lived across the hall which was much more believable as Chandler was a data processor who was supposed to be making quite a lot for his age/place in life.

However, the show was more realistic about money struggles.  3 of the Friends were doing quite well for themselves and 3 of the friends were not and they addressed this.  When the Friends didn't have jobs or money they never went shopping or spent extravagantly.

SATC is way more about the fantasy.  Friends is more like, this isn't that realistic, but we won't talk about it too much.  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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30 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

^ I see, thank you! :) Much as I love to watch TV for the fantasy, it's nice when you think it's possible some people really live like that. 

Anyone can live like that!  In a totally different city.  LOL

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I thought this was the best episode so far, but it's like being the best house on a bad block.  Thankfully nothing too embarrassing or shocking happened, but this reboot is missing that fun element that SatC had before.

I expected the dinner stuff with Charlotte to be a lot more cringe, but it actually went over well.  Even with his nervousness Harry is such a friendly gregarious guy that I wasn't worried about him.  Charlotte surprisingly pulled through with the art discussion, and it was nice that the writers remembered that she does have an extensive background in art history.

Miranda's glossing over that Brady actually called her bitch had me reeling.  If they sent Brady off to boarding school or had some other antiquated method of getting rid of him, I don't care.  Just want that awful brat (and his GF) off my screen.  It was the first time that I really felt bad for Miranda in this reboot.  She's unfulfilled in her sex life, while her only child treats her like shit.  No wonder she's drinking.  That scene with her and Prof. Wallace gave Miranda more depth than any scenes she's had with Che.

Speaking of Che, I was glad that they were sidelined this week.  Please take Brady with you next time.

Lisa can definitely stick around.  She's funny and a good friend to Charlotte, but she doesn't let anyone push her around.  Except her mother in law.  Her animosity with Lisa is one of the funnier running gags in the reboot.

I liked Seema a lot and she looks like the sexy and fun friend that this show desperately needs, but I didn't like how she mentioned that comment Carrie made to her.  It's not that Seema was wrong in being upset, but it felt like she brought up that comment to justify her own thoughtlessness regarding the picture.  If Carrie had said something like "I would never do anything like what you did" then I could see Seema mentioning the off-hand remark. 

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26 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

I liked Seema a lot and she looks like the sexy and fun friend that this show desperately needs, but I didn't like how she mentioned that comment Carrie made to her.  It's not that Seema was wrong in being upset, but it felt like she brought up that comment to justify her own thoughtlessness regarding the picture.  If Carrie had said something like "I would never do anything like what you did" then I could see Seema mentioning the off-hand remark. 

Yes, that's how it came off.  Weird sense of morality.

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1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

Miranda's glossing over that Brady actually called her bitch had me reeling.  If they sent Brady off to boarding school or had some other antiquated method of getting rid of him, I don't care.  Just want that awful brat (and his GF) off my screen.  It was the first time that I really felt bad for Miranda in this reboot.  She's unfulfilled in her sex life, while her only child treats her like shit.  No wonder she's drinking.  That scene with her and Prof. Wallace gave Miranda more depth than any scenes she's had with Che.

It's funny Miranda is the one who first had a child but it never seemed to me that she really enjoyed any aspect of motherhood.

Samantha and Carrie did not want kids, which was refreshing

Charlotte wanted children badly and was eventually blessed with Lilly and Rose.

I really do not know why they had Miranda have a kid because he never really seemed maternal. At first, I just thought it was that she just was not into the baby years (they are rough) but now it just seems that she feels trapped by her life, including her shitty son.

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1 hour ago, qtpye said:

It's funny Miranda is the one who first had a child but it never seemed to me that she really enjoyed any aspect of motherhood.

Samantha and Carrie did not want kids, which was refreshing

Charlotte wanted children badly and was eventually blessed with Lilly and Rose.

I really do not know why they had Miranda have a kid because he never really seemed maternal. At first, I just thought it was that she just was not into the baby years (they are rough) but now it just seems that she feels trapped by her life, including her shitty son.

I think Carrie was more on the fence, witness the episode "Catch 38".  She was even thinking of dumping Aleks because he didn't want another child.  I think she'd have Big's kid if he wanted to.  She worshipped him.  She'd do whatever he asked.

I'm watching "Cougar Town" these days (which I have already seen) and while the relationship between Jules and her teenage son is very co-dependent (which to me is very understandable because she is a single mother), it's extremely sweet in some ways too.  I find it so refreshing and very cool that the show went there instead of where they're going with AJLT where the message seems to be, boys are shit LOL. 

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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16 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think Carrie was more on the fence, witness the episode "Catch 38".  She was even thinking of dumping Aleks because he didn't want another child.  I think she'd have Big's kid if he wanted to.  She worshipped him.  She'd do whatever he asked.

I'm watching "Cougar Town" these days (which I have already seen) and while the relationship between Jules and her teenage son is very co-dependent (which to me is very understandable because she is a single mother), it's extremely sweet in some ways too.  I find it so refreshing and very cool that the show went there instead of where they're going with AJLT where the message seems to be, boys are shit LOL. 

Jules did have a very unique sweet relationship with her son. That was an underrated show.

I do wonder if Miranda and Steve would be so permissive with a girl? I hope so, otherwise, it would be quite a double standard.

For the record, I think the actor who played Steve has aged the best in terms of looks. Unfortunately, they have decided to turn his character into a 250-year-old man.

Edited by qtpye
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1 hour ago, qtpye said:

I really do not know why they had Miranda have a kid because he never really seemed maternal. At first, I just thought it was that she just was not into the baby years (they are rough) but now it just seems that she feels trapped by her life, including her shitty son.

I wonder if it was because they had to write Cynthia Nixon's real life pregnancy into the show?  I remember SJP did a lot of flowy dresses and bags to hide her pregnancy, and I'm not even sure if they were still filming by the time she got to full term, but there was no disguising anything with Cynthia.  I don't know if that was a decision by her or the writers.

It does make sense that Miranda and Steve only had one child.  Although Miranda once said she would "probably end up with five."  Thankfully that didn't come to pass.

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Samantha and Carrie did not want kids, which was refreshing

The Baby Shower in s1 was one of the best episodes of the series, IMO, and one of the few that explored Carrie having children.  Then, she was kind of wishy-washy about it, but later on Catch-38, she had firmly decided she didn't want any.  IA that it was refreshing and it seemed true to her character.

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3 hours ago, qtpye said:

It's funny Miranda is the one who first had a child but it never seemed to me that she really enjoyed any aspect of motherhood.

Samantha and Carrie did not want kids, which was refreshing

Charlotte wanted children badly and was eventually blessed with Lilly and Rose.

I really do not know why they had Miranda have a kid because he never really seemed maternal. At first, I just thought it was that she just was not into the baby years (they are rough) but now it just seems that she feels trapped by her life, including her shitty son.

She was written that way, though--she wanted fried chicken and no waterfowl at her baby shower (which she didn't even want but Charlotte thoughtfully put together for her, still raw from losing her husband and struggling with her own fertility, but knowing her dear friend needed baby stuff and had no time to get it all), waved hello to the kid at its birth, and firmly put her foot down on any tears or sentimentality in the delivery room. She didn't even connect with the fetus until she was clearly showing and it kicked her. When everyone expected her to be excited that she was having a boy, she faked enthusiasm (I sympathize--who cares?!).

She was always a reluctant, if loving, mom. As a non-maternal person myself, I always appreciated how honestly they presented her pregnancy in the original series. It's not the portrayal the mommy bloggers would want, but I'd be willing to bet plenty of women feel this way about getting shoehorned into parenthood.

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On 12/24/2021 at 10:14 AM, JasonCC said:

 

What a succinct, accurate way to put it. The original criticisms were all valid, but there was a general trend in the late 90s/early 00's to portray (Guliani's) NYC as something white and Hollywoodish and about the top 5%. Even a show about struggling 20somethings made NYC lily-white and ridiculous ("Friends" should have been set in late-90s Seattle--nothing about it read NYC).

Re: Friends - Exactly.  One reason I never watched it.  I did watch Seinfeld despite the fact that the outdoor scenes were all filmed on sets made to look like NYC.  At least the characters were all authentic and/or believable as NY-ers  if not diverse.

Re: The depiction of NY around 20 years ago as something white and Hollywoodish - To native NY-ers (at least me and my husband) that felt like a co-opting of NY culture to be more like the suburbs the young transplants coming there wanted it to be more like.  Many New Yorkers lamented the watering down of NY culture by young transplants that unlike former generations of transplants didn't blend in with NY culture but did what they could to change it to suit their "bland" lily white suburban tastes.  

 

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On 12/24/2021 at 10:14 AM, JasonCC said:

Speaking of insane closets, good catch above to whoever caught the random Barney's old empty shopping bag just being shoved in a corner at Big's. Seema would have thrown that shit away or shoved in a drawer!!!

Speaking of that shopping bag, was I the only person to catch the symbolism of Carrie putting Big's ashes in that Barney's shopping bag?  Big is gone, Barney's is gone.  Carrie loved both.  Their loss is shocking and horrible and to be mourned.  Both are part of an old NY that no longer exists, which is being replaced by whatever exists now whether we like it or not.  Brought on by a new order or new society seeking to invalidate and eliminate everything we loved and wanted to preserve for all time about the old New York.  Because truthfully this is how things feel sometimes to older New Yorkers.  That was the best thing in this series so far and somehow I feel like the juxtaposition was intentional.  It symbolizes everything that is happening in the series so far.  Out with the old, in with the new.  Get rid of the older white men and force-fit some powerful women of color into the cast.  Like most here, I love the idea of adding persons of color to the cast and think it's way overdue but it's way overdone and doesn't feel genuine enough for me.  It feels like virtue signaling more than a genuine correction.  It almost feels spiteful like the producer is saying "you want diversity, well POW, here's your diversity, right in the kissa!"

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An opportunity was sorely missed to explore Charlotte’s budding friendship with LTW more organically, without having to involve race, and without relying on the tired TV trope of a white person not understanding how to relate to a new black friend without coming off as a nitwit. They managed to do that with Seema (a dark-skinned South Asian heritage woman of color), why couldn’t the same be done for LTW? While Charlotte was sheltered in her WASP-y life, she’s also lived much of her life in NYC so having girlfriends of color wouldn’t be outside her realm of expertise. When she showed her appreciation and recognition of the African American art in LTW’s home, it was when the writers finally wrote her with a level of depth and intelligence that I remembered from the Sex and the City days. This is the same woman that studied hard to convert to Judaism.

I really don’t expect the girls to play catch-up to “wokeness”, and I certainly don’t expect the new characters to get such big storylines, other than being supporting, since they’re not the main characters (potentially yet) and there’s only a limited number of episodes. But I expect the introduction of the new girlfriends of color to feel more nuanced and natural, because it is NYC and it is possible to have a set of female friendships that are diverse, though not necessarily in one clique.

Unfortunately the writers on this show are too lazy to understand that you can have those nuances, not have to be awkward, and still be funny.

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On 12/24/2021 at 10:37 AM, ifionlyknew said:

Well Carrie was the woman who said she would buy Vogue instead of food so that tells you her priorities.  I don't know how NYC funeral homes do things but when my husband died the funeral home called me and told me his ashes were ready to be picked up.   He was in a cardboard box but some good friends had asked if they could buy me a container for him.  Which they did.  It is an enamel box with the logo of  his favorite football team on it. I know Carrie will probably spread his ashes but why not put him in an urn or something till then?  

Having lost my father in NYC last year I can say yes, they do offer you the option of picking up the ashes, which is what I did, but they also offer you the option of having them sent to you.  I guess I just filled in the story to include the doorman of the building accepting them and maybe having the key to the apartment, putting them in the closet for Carrie.  That would also explain them being in a box and not an urn. 

After my Dad died, I gave the doorman in my father's building the key to bring in mail and keep an eye on things when I wasn't there.  He loved my father and would do anything for us.  I gave him a nice gift after the apartment sold.

On 12/24/2021 at 7:20 AM, sadie said:

I thought Bigs apartment was gorgeous, like Architectural Digest gorgeous, and the realtor painting everything that awful beige color was a travesty. That apartment had to be at least 10 mill and people with that kind of money would’ve appreciated the design. She acted like she was trying to rent a low end apartment. It made no sense to me other than one of the writers wanted to make a point of erasing Carries former life. Dumb. 

I agree with you that it was a travesty, but actually it's pretty much universal that realtors want everything neutralized when you put an apartment up for sale.  Mine did and he was with a big trendy realty company that mostly did work in Manhattan and Riverdale in the Bronx.  Seema is right that most buyers don't have enough imagination to see the potential in a place.  Realtors even use software to "stage" an empty apartment with nice furniture in photos because they can't visualize how it would look without it.  After my Dad's apartment was empty the realtor did that.  He made it look like a trendy young professional's apartment.  And that's exactly who bought it, too!  BTW, this couple saw the apartment in person before I had it painted beige and passed on it.  Then when the realtor heard that it had been emptied and painted, he brought them back and that was enough to get them to put an offer on it.  Whatever works, you have to get over it.  It's hard but that's the name of the game.

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19 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I would simply apologize

Isn't that what Seema did repeatedly?

Quote

but I didn't like how she mentioned that comment Carrie made to her.  It's not that Seema was wrong in being upset, but it felt like she brought up that comment to justify her own thoughtlessness 

Samantha Jones would have told Carrie to get over herself.  

 

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She "apologized" in a sarcastic, passive aggressive "I don't give a fuck" way.  And then she brought up something that Carrie should apologize for.  Didn't exactly seem genuine to me.

5 minutes ago, Adgirl said:

Samantha Jones would have told Carrie to get over herself.  

Have you seen how Sam treats realtors?  😄  There's a pretty famous episode that dealt with exactly that.  I can't imagine Sam taking Seema's side over Carrie's; she was pretty ride or die.  She was even ride or die for Charlotte, the person she got along with the least (reference: The Baby Shower episode).

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she moved her shoes before taking his ashes to her old apartment.

So Carrie of her. 

I can only think that the Brady debacle (storyline, actors) is meant to telegraph what a mess Miranda and Steve are. 

Can I watch the alternate universe version in which Miranda and Dr. Blair are living happily ever after? Sans kid.

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12 minutes ago, buttersister said:

Can I watch the alternate universe version in which Miranda and Dr. Blair are living happily ever after? Sans kid.

I'd watch the heck out of that.  If he'd do it.  He almost passed on his role in the original series because he felt it exploited black men.  After reading this article I wonder how he'd feel about this series.

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19 minutes ago, buttersister said:

Can I watch the alternate universe version in which Miranda and Dr. Blair are living happily ever after? Sans kid.

Suddenly I can hear the song "All I have to do is Dream" by the Everly Brothers.  

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I think most everything I’ve been thinking about this episode has been covered so far on this thread…..I did wonder about the dress that Charlotte wore to the dinner party….was that considered art? Lol  I thought it was very dated and odd…..almost as bad as Carrie’s wild skirt.  
 

I suppose that Charlotte’s obsession with being perfect at the dinner party is in keeping with her SATC personality, but it seemed so strange to me…..making such a big deal deal of socializing with POC……she hasn’t done that in the last 30 years?  Hard to believe.  I just don’t find it amusing. It seems like something from a 70’s sitcom.  
 

I was shocked that the professor is undergoing fertility treatments! Omg, she looks great, but I was under the impression that she was only a couple of years younger than Miranda!  Man……of course, we already seen that on the show…..not really something I care to see again, but it can help bond the ladies…..

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46 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I think most everything I’ve been thinking about this episode has been covered so far on this thread…..I did wonder about the dress that Charlotte wore to the dinner party….was that considered art? Lol  I thought it was very dated and odd…..almost as bad as Carrie’s wild skirt.  
 

I suppose that Charlotte’s obsession with being perfect at the dinner party is in keeping with her SATC personality, but it seemed so strange to me…..making such a big deal deal of socializing with POC……she hasn’t done that in the last 30 years?  Hard to believe.  I just don’t find it amusing. It seems like something from a 70’s sitcom.  
 

I was shocked that the professor is undergoing fertility treatments! Omg, she looks great, but I was under the impression that she was only a couple of years younger than Miranda!  Man……of course, we already seen that on the show…..not really something I care to see again, but it can help bond the ladies…..

Especially as parents of a child adopted from China.  But perhaps she's conditioned to believe that speaking with Black people and making Black people feel "comfortable" is different with East Asians.  Funny we haven't seen many other than that weird looking co-host of Che's podcast that Carrie is involved with.  

 

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A nice though sad moment: When Carrie returned to her and Big's apartment, when she expected him to be there, an instrumental of "Hello, It's Me" played softly in the background. 

So the timeline: At first I thought we were seeing Carrie wake up the morning after the last episode, when she "walked herself home". Then I thought she'd had time to move some stuff in, like the shoeboxes in the kitchen. In the podcast meeting (hated the social media manager screaming at everyone!) it seems they are saying that it's been three weeks since Big died. In real life the rapid way Carrie is making a huge life change of moving out and selling her marital apartment would alarm some of her friends. Yet Miranda and Charlotte question it with "HALT" and then shrug and move on to the next topic. I can't believe none of them have ever heard the advice "Don't make any big decisions for one year" after losing a spouse. That's what I expected them to trot out. However, it's a show and Carrie is Carrie so she has to zoom forward. 

Doesn't make sense that vastly wealthy Carrie now doesn't seem to think about money at all, not even that she has plenty so no need to quickly sell her marital home. We certainly don't see her and Seema discuss setting a price for the apartment. Again, it's the Show. These women were always plopped into sets and situations and lifestyles as backdrop to their story lines so I remind myself to stop expecting Reality.

Hated the whole broken photo glass thing. Why was the photo left there by both Carrie and the movers? Apparently Carrie removed nothing from the apartment and left it all to Seema's movers. (Has she ever packed a box in any of her moves?) If the photo was so special, she should have taken it with other precious and valuable items, like Big's watch collection and jewelry box. Oh, and maybe his ashes? Anyway, "he touched [the photo] all the time" didn't work for me, but Carrie being irrationally angry that it was broken was ok, that's how grief works sometimes. So the broken glass was a writing point; I'm just saying it was a weak one.

I did like the shot of Carrie breathing smoke out the window as she rode through New York, a good callback to Carrie in her youth. I can see what the writers are trying to do, having her dress in a goofy, see-through fashion item (that makes her at age 55 look ridiculous -- "Annie, get your clothes on!") and make coffee in a Mr. Coffee, go to the corner store, and enjoy a cigarette again. She's going back to her former self and it makes sense but so much around her story (this new series) is clunky or accelerated or, I don't know, just unsatisfactory. I like the new friends but think this would have worked better as a story arc with only one or two being introduced more naturally, not a whole new roster shoehorned in along with all the characters stressing about how society has changed over the past 10 years (where were they, in mothballs?). Also, the writers should have sent 20-year-old Brady off to college and kept him there! Empty-nesters Miranda and Steve would have worked better.

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I'm in this bizarre position of...liking the show is maybe too strong, but enjoying it a lot more than I thought I would.  That's maybe some faint praise, but considering how just stupid and unnecessary I thought reviving the show was, it's a lot.

I mean, I completely understand the criticism, and maybe I just need some ridiculous comfort food TV after almost two years of COVID, but if nothing else, it's nice to slip into an alternate universe where NYC is back to normal and beautifully photographed.  The places they go aren't the New York I live and work in, but it's so nice to see something so familiar after so long.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I can see what the writers are trying to do, having her dress in a goofy, see-through fashion item (that makes her at age 55 look ridiculous -

But are they really? Or are we supposed to cheer her on?  

I can't decide if the writers knew how much (IMO valid) criticism  would be thrown their way or if they wrote this thinking they were writing something that people would cheer.  They added people of color.  They added a non binary character. Hey I see a woman in a wheelchair who is just doing her job.  Miranda is going to explore her sexuality.  Charlotte's daughter might be exploring hers.  Miranda has a drinking problem.  If this is what made it on the air I shudder to think what they chose not to include.

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Just now, ifionlyknew said:

But are they really? Or are we supposed to cheer her on?  

I can't decide if the writers knew how much (IMO valid) criticism  would be thrown their way or if they wrote this thinking they were writing something that people would cheer.  They added people of color.  They added a non binary character. Hey I see a woman in a wheelchair who is just doing her job.  Miranda is going to explore her sexuality.  Charlotte's daughter might be exploring hers.  Miranda has a drinking problem.  If this is what made it on the air I shudder to think what they chose not to include.

Oh, I didn't mean to say that the writers intended Carrie to look ridiculous. I think the writers believe they're showing us Carrie reverting to her old, fun "fashionista" personality and indeed thinking we will cheer for that. Although kudos to them for including the shopping lady who gave her outfit the side-eye. I guess I'm flummoxed about their intentions, and I agree that the "check the box" style of inserting representative characters is annoying and shows a lack of creative-writing skills.

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15 minutes ago, starri said:

I'm in this bizarre position of...liking the show is maybe too strong, but enjoying it a lot more than I thought I would.  That's maybe some faint praise, but considering how just stupid and unnecessary I thought reviving the show was, it's a lot.

I mean, I completely understand the criticism, and maybe I just need some ridiculous comfort food TV after almost two years of COVID, but if nothing else, it's nice to slip into an alternate universe where NYC is back to normal and beautifully photographed.  The places they go aren't the New York I live and work in, but it's so nice to see something so familiar after so long.

 

 

I totally get this. A part of me hate-watches and a part of me comfort-watches. I wasn't a big fan of the original series and the first movie. I howled with laughter at how bad the second movie was, in between bouts of being totally offended by how bad and misogynistic it was. So my viewing style hasn't changed. I used to enjoy the odd moments of good writing (the "I Heart NY" episode where Big is moving to Napa) or beautiful shots of NYC or a few LOL lines. So coming back to the show isn't for me "seeing old friends" (as only Samanta would have been someone I'd befriend) but more curiosity about how they'd now depict these women in their mid and upper 50s. I'm not disappointed because the movies set me up to expect nothing, and I'm certainly not impressed. In the end it's entertainment, and I do enjoy coming here to discuss afterward. 

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2 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Oh, I didn't mean to say that the writers intended Carrie to look ridiculous. I think the writers believe they're showing us Carrie reverting to her old, fun "fashionista" personality and indeed thinking we will cheer for that. Although kudos to them for including the shopping lady who gave her outfit the side-eye. I guess I'm flummoxed about their intentions, and I agree that the "check the box" style of inserting representative characters is annoying and shows a lack of creative-writing skills.

I don't see it exactly that way.  I think the writers were showing Carrie taking solace in a happier time by regressing in some ways in order to process her grief.  I went through something like that when I was grieving over my Dad's death.  When I went down to NYC to deal with his apartment I found myself eating Burger King and actually bought a pack of cigarettes and smoked a few before throwing the pack away.  And I hadn't done that in decades.  It's a way of going back to the things that brought you comfort in an attempt to self soothe, even if they are not quite representative of the you of today.  And I actually don't think the writers are expecting us to cheer that along either, but possibly understand that it's part of what she's going through.  Otherwise we wouldn't have had the woman giving her the side eye. 

Nothing about the women in this new series is the same as it was or quite right, but then again the world and NYC is not like it was or quite right either.   They've all been thrown off their game and are trying to evolve with the changes that life has thrown at them while not losing sight of their true selves.  And I think that's supposed to be the point of this series.  Only it's not quite coming across too well and is a little bit clunky at delivering the message it wants us to receive.

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15 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

So coming back to the show isn't for me "seeing old friends" (as only Samanta would have been someone I'd befriend) but more curiosity about how they'd now depict these women in their mid and upper 50s.

I honestly DO appreciate them addressing the lack of diversity in the original show head-on.  I think the attempts have been clumsy, but I respect them not attempting to handwave it.

I do like most of the new characters, including Che.  Seema, however...

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2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

A nice though sad moment: When Carrie returned to her and Big's apartment, when she expected him to be there, an instrumental of "Hello, It's Me" played softly in the background.

That was just lovely. So subtle and beautiful.

 

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Nothing about the women in this new series is the same as it was or quite right, but then again the world and NYC is not like it was or quite right either.   They've all been thrown off their game and are trying to evolve with the changes that life has thrown at them while not losing sight of their true selves.  And I think that's supposed to be the point of this series.  Only it's not quite coming across too well and is a little bit clunky at delivering the message it wants us to receive.

And let's be honest--as clever as I think some of the SATC writing was (I've always admired how deftly they would develop the "theme" of the week, and usually include all four women), it's never been very subtle. I think of the famous breast cancer charity benefit--before Samantha tears off her wig, when she's sweating profusely, one of the attendees says snidely to another "I said inspirational, not perspirational." Would someone who's chosen to attend a cancer benefit really say something so completely tone-deaf? Make fun of the speaker--who's suffering from cancer? SATC is full of heavy-handed moments like that. 

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1 hour ago, starri said:

I honestly DO appreciate them addressing the lack of diversity in the original show head-on.  I think the attempts have been clumsy, but I respect them not attempting to handwave it.

I do like most of the new characters, including Che.  Seema, however...

I think it's more than clumsy.  I think it's gawd-awful.  They really should have consulted.  But maybe they DID...just the wrong people.  

I also think I come from a very different world.  It's likely economic-related.  I find, just like an earlier poster, either here or on another thread about the show, that outside of school/work environments, people typically socialize with others from a similar cultural background.  It's slightly changing in younger generations, especially GenZ, but these ladies aren't GenZ (I'd love to go on and on about a so-called "diversity" seminar on Zoom my university had - it was just as bad (the three alumni they had from "diverse groups" weren't, IMHO, regionally diverse, all graduated within 10 years of each other and the one girl they had on spent too much time going on and on about how she had never met "private school kids" before (okay, fine, you don't come from that sort of background) and implied all of them were white.  This girl graduated well after I did, and I know for a fact (because I'm an Old Girl/alumna of such schools) that the schools she's talking about are NOT "all white."  I wasn't allowed to ask her questions - it was sent to the moderator - but I would have given her a lecture if I could).  It angered me...I'll just leave it at that because I've said enough).

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2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

So the timeline: At first I thought we were seeing Carrie wake up the morning after the last episode, when she "walked herself home". Then I thought she'd had time to move some stuff in, like the shoeboxes in the kitchen. In the podcast meeting (hated the social media manager screaming at everyone!) it seems they are saying that it's been three weeks since Big died. 

Episode 4 does pick up the morning after Episode 3, when Carrie returned to her old apartment.  Carrie is wearing the same outfit that she had on in the end of Episode 3, the bed isn't made, she was sleeping in her clothes.  But her closet is full, which means she's been using it for storage (she hadn't decided to move back yet, so hadn't moved anything), and that's how she was able to change clothes into the crinoline skirt & sweater.  All the stuff in the kitchen is stuff she left there. 

12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Seema is right that most buyers don't have enough imagination to see the potential in a place.  Realtors even use software to "stage" an empty apartment with nice furniture in photos because they can't visualize how it would look without it. 

OK, I'll just say that I have a much more cynical take on the semi-recent (last decade or so) trend of realtors all insisting on the "blank slate", having to repaint every room to a neutral, bring in furniture, stage it etc.  It would be one thing if this was limited to high end real estate, but it happens with normal $100,000 suburban houses, too.  I think it's all a racket - that as more people are buying/selling on their own because the internet has made that possible, realtors had to make up for lower sales, lower incomes.  So realtors started this new "neutralizing" business, and get kick backs from the painters, movers, stagers, etc.  (I know some realtors that also own/run these side businesses.)  And, in doing so, they've trained the market that if a listing doesn't look like this it's not worth buying.  The average buyer can visualize their belongings in someone else's normal everyday space, they've been doing it forever.  But now realtors say that's not possible.  Yes, I know staging has existed for a long time, but it used to be the exception, not the rule, at least in "normal" real estate markets (not NYC $10 million apartments).  OK, done with that rant!  😉

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5 minutes ago, chaifan said:

OK, I'll just say that I have a much more cynical take on the semi-recent (last decade or so) trend of realtors all insisting on the "blank slate", having to repaint every room to a neutral, bring in furniture, stage it etc.  It would be one thing if this was limited to high end real estate, but it happens with normal $100,000 suburban houses, too.  I think it's all a racket - that as more people are buying/selling on their own because the internet has made that possible, realtors had to make up for lower sales, lower incomes.  So realtors started this new "neutralizing" business, and get kick backs from the painters, movers, stagers, etc.  (I know some realtors that also own/run these side businesses.)  And, in doing so, they've trained the market that if a listing doesn't look like this it's not worth buying.  The average buyer can visualize their belongings in someone else's normal everyday space, they've been doing it forever.  But now realtors say that's not possible.  Yes, I know staging has existed for a long time, but it used to be the exception, not the rule, at least in "normal" real estate markets (not NYC $10 million apartments).  OK, done with that rant!  😉

This is an interesting take--I will admit, I haaaaaated that Seema insisted on throwing away everything that was unique and special about Big/Carrie's apartment. I say this as someone who personally painted her own apartment and even painted a beach mural all over the bathroom (including the ceiling). And part of me was thinking "maybe when I eventually sell it, the walls will be a selling point!" Because the walls do look gorgeous--I'm no kind of professional artist but my apartment is beautiful. I hate that I might have to erase all that uniqueness when I sell.

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On 12/21/2021 at 10:29 AM, Mattipoo said:

Carrie isn't known for making sound financial decisions on the show. I remember there was an episode where she bought so many shoes that she couldn't pay her rent/mortgage and had to borrow from Miranda/Samantha/Charlotte. So selling the penthouse and keeping her old apartment empty without renting it out for monthly income would be right in line with her character.

 

 

 

 

One of my biggest qualms with this show is the lack of any growth displayed by the characters. 20 years is a LONG time, it's an entire generation apart. That's 20 years of life experience and newly gained perspective. The writers want to make this a show about older women going through a different stage in their lives, yet they continue to write for them as if they're the same age as when the show ended, and the only changes have been to their external environment. 30 year old Carrie obsessively stalking her husband's ex and walking around in a very impractical giant tulle dress? Very in line with her character. 50 year old Carrie now with more wealth and other things on her plate, still behaving that way? Seems a little strange to me. All those years of stated marital bliss, longer than the time they've spent tumultuously dating, yet you'd never know it from how immature and insecure Carrie still behaves. 

Edited by Roccos Brother
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1 hour ago, chaifan said:

OK, I'll just say that I have a much more cynical take on the semi-recent (last decade or so) trend of realtors all insisting on the "blank slate", having to repaint every room to a neutral, bring in furniture, stage it etc.  It would be one thing if this was limited to high end real estate, but it happens with normal $100,000 suburban houses, too.  I think it's all a racket - that as more people are buying/selling on their own because the internet has made that possible, realtors had to make up for lower sales, lower incomes.  So realtors started this new "neutralizing" business, and get kick backs from the painters, movers, stagers, etc.  (I know some realtors that also own/run these side businesses.)  And, in doing so, they've trained the market that if a listing doesn't look like this it's not worth buying.  The average buyer can visualize their belongings in someone else's normal everyday space, they've been doing it forever.  But now realtors say that's not possible.  Yes, I know staging has existed for a long time, but it used to be the exception, not the rule, at least in "normal" real estate markets

Absolutely.  when my family bought our house, i loved the paint jobs in the kids' rooms. it was unique (one used a bunch of sponge applicators in designs, and the other was a  huge handpainted tree in the corner, with blue skies and green grass with flowers along the walls) and it saved us from doing something on our own.  

most people know what furniture they are bringing to the house and can figure out how it will fit.  the only time i could see needing staging is if the space is somewhat different in its shape.  and i've seen places with character sell because of the uniqueness of the place.  

so what will Carrie do with Big's album collection?  put it in storage?  that's one reason she may regret selling the apartment, she's essentially erasing Big from her life because she certainly has no room for any of his stuff in her old apartment.  she should have continued to live in the place and finish the albums.  

 

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1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

Absolutely.  when my family bought our house, i loved the paint jobs in the kids' rooms. it was unique (one used a bunch of sponge applicators in designs, and the other was a  huge handpainted tree in the corner, with blue skies and green grass with flowers along the walls) and it saved us from doing something on our own.  

most people know what furniture they are bringing to the house and can figure out how it will fit.  the only time i could see needing staging is if the space is somewhat different in its shape.  and i've seen places with character sell because of the uniqueness of the place.  

so what will Carrie do with Big's album collection?  put it in storage?  that's one reason she may regret selling the apartment, she's essentially erasing Big from her life because she certainly has no room for any of his stuff in her old apartment.  she should have continued to live in the place and finish the albums.  

 

YES! One home we looked at before we decided to separate for a while had a Starry Starry Night mural painted in the nursery. That would have been my office/library. How could you hate something that so much thought and effort went into?

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1 hour ago, Roccos Brother said:

One of my biggest qualms with this show is the lack of any growth displayed by the characters. 20 years is a LONG time, it's an entire generation apart. That's 20 years of life experience and newly gained perspective. The writers want to make this a show about older women going through a different stage in their lives, yet they continue to write for them as if they're the same age as when the show ended, and the only changes have been to their external environment

I agree with this.  They are also having them react to things.  It's like the characters aren't the story.  It's things happening to these new characters and our core characters are reacting to it.  Even Carrie reacting to Big's death seems less about that and just a plot point that the podcast producer keeps forgetting about.  

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3 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

And let's be honest--as clever as I think some of the SATC writing was (I've always admired how deftly they would develop the "theme" of the week, and usually include all four women), it's never been very subtle. I think of the famous breast cancer charity benefit--before Samantha tears off her wig, when she's sweating profusely, one of the attendees says snidely to another "I said inspirational, not perspirational." Would someone who's chosen to attend a cancer benefit really say something so completely tone-deaf? Make fun of the speaker--who's suffering from cancer? SATC is full of heavy-handed moments like that. 

But that's from its last season!  I think the writing was very good and subtle in the earlier seasons.  And I do like the last season, but I agree with you, there wasn't as much subtlety, that's for sure.

I mean, one episode was called SPLAT!  and we all know what happened.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

so what will Carrie do with Big's album collection?  put it in storage?  that's one reason she may regret selling the apartment, she's essentially erasing Big from her life because she certainly has no room for any of his stuff in her old apartment.  she should have continued to live in the place and finish the albums.  

Good point.  She has enough money that she simply could have gone away for a bit to process what happened with Big.  I understand the apartment is hard to be in right after what happened, but maybe she could come back to it after a few weeks/months and see how she feels.  

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7 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

She has enough money that she simply could have gone away for a bit to process what happened with Big.

I've already said this once but it bears repeating.  Carrie seems to have taken Big leaving her at the alter harder than him dying.  

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4 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I've already said this once but it bears repeating.  Carrie seems to have taken Big leaving her at the alter harder than him dying.  

Yes! I've thought this too. 

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39 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

I've already said this once but it bears repeating.  Carrie seems to have taken Big leaving her at the alter harder than him dying.  

I'm not sure if this is a criticism or just an observation. 

I've never been left at the altar, nor have had a spouse die.  But I could see that for Carrie being left at the altar could be just as emotionally devastating as Big's death, at least in that moment.  Being left at the altar is an instant death of a relationship.  Not only is that person dead to you, but the love is dead, and any prior love is instantly questioned.  Also, it's natural for people to think about their spouse eventually dying - it could be prompted by doing your estate planning, or the death of a friend/relative who leaves a spouse widowed, or even just watching a tv show or movie.  There is at least a 50/50 chance your spouse will die before you, and Carrie would have known she would likely outlive Big.  But few people will seriously contemplate "what will I do if my fiancee doesn't show up at the wedding?".  So there's no emotional preparation for it, even in abstract theory.  And then there's the public humiliation - for Carrie very very public - of being left at the altar.   I also think that for most people, outrage/anger is more outwardly shown than sadness and grief.

So in the context of this show, it makes sense to me that we saw Carrie have a bigger emotional reaction to being left at the altar than we saw with Big's death. 

 

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4 hours ago, chaifan said:

 

OK, I'll just say that I have a much more cynical take on the semi-recent (last decade or so) trend of realtors all insisting on the "blank slate", having to repaint every room to a neutral, bring in furniture, stage it etc.  It would be one thing if this was limited to high end real estate, but it happens with normal $100,000 suburban houses, too.  I think it's all a racket - that as more people are buying/selling on their own because the internet has made that possible, realtors had to make up for lower sales, lower incomes.  So realtors started this new "neutralizing" business, and get kick backs from the painters, movers, stagers, etc.  (I know some realtors that also own/run these side businesses.)  And, in doing so, they've trained the market that if a listing doesn't look like this it's not worth buying.  The average buyer can visualize their belongings in someone else's normal everyday space, they've been doing it forever.  But now realtors say that's not possible.  Yes, I know staging has existed for a long time, but it used to be the exception, not the rule, at least in "normal" real estate markets (not NYC $10 million apartments).  OK, done with that rant!  😉

I just had to LOL at the mention of a “normal $100,000 suburban houses” comment.  That doesn’t exist here.  “Normal suburban” here is around $1.2 M Canadian ($900,000 or so US) unless you’re looking for a condo or a townhouse.  

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There are a lot of towns and cities in North America where it does apply though.  Toronto is the 4th biggest city in N.A., it's the exception, not the rule.

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3 hours ago, Hanahope said:

so what will Carrie do with Big's album collection?  put it in storage?  that's one reason she may regret selling the apartment, she's essentially erasing Big from her life because she certainly has no room for any of his stuff in her old apartment.  she should have continued to live in the place and finish the albums.  

Another reason I dislike her quick move-out and sale of the apartment. Doesn't she want to process her and their memories in that home? Indeed, maybe finish the album collection at her own pace, just to honor him and his taste and how maybe some of his favorites became hers as well?

I know, it's Carrie we're talking about and the show much go on (heh) so she has to do things quickly, and sometimes people do this in real life. Because we missed almost all of their married years, it's like we're being cheated of something when her grief move is to erase him and those years. This is the complication of killing him off as this series begins. It will take at least a few episodes to get past that death and the heavy drama and into what MPK has claimed are the "lighter" episodes. That's so off-kilter.

Maybe it would have been better for the show to have Big die in the interim, and we pick up with Carrie's life one year later. I thought we might get flashbacks to their earlier years, a couple of scenes they shot for this show, little memories that might come back to her like when she saw the couple dining outside and thought of him.

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