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S30.E11: Finale


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2 hours ago, RomanKat said:

Just to avoid confusion, Pasha and Daniella competed in Latin Showdance. For the sake of distinction: Ballroom also has divisions for Standard Showdance (based on waltz, tango, foxtrot, etc.) and Cabaret / Adagio that primarily features lifts and acrobatics (e.g. Luka and Jenalyn from World of Dance).

ETA: Strictly includes Standard Showdance under the heading of American Smooth. They also have Showdance as their last performance instead of Freestyle, the difference being that Showdance include recognizable ballroom steps.

FWIW, DWTS in recent seasons has opened up the Latin and Standard dances to allow for more showdance elements (like breaks in hold), imho.

Also, Pasha is only a couple years younger than Sasha, but that's still closer to Suni's age. Suni and Pasha might have made a quiet but powerful pairing.

Thank you for providing the distinction, when I saw those crazy lifts Iman performed I had a look on YouTube to see if there were anything similar. I saw the first lift in the Kanye West Jazz performed by Cabaret dancers- that one where Daniella lies back and Iman lifts her one armed and then does a three sixty with his free arm outstretched for balance. Then the other lift where Daniella is spinned around in the air and then Iman slows the motion. In other words the Jazz was more acro with dance movement in between, that wasn’t ballroom. My Guess is Daniella tried them out with Iman - she may not have performed them before this show.  
 

and then the closing move  from this video where the woman  stands on his chest - it looks amazing but - Imans height made it spectacular on DWTS 

 

Edited by White Dog
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Here I am again singing Iman and Daniella’s praises. I am making a big deal of it because what they did was not only amazing it was so freakin dangerous because Daniella was dealing with a complete novice. But the exciting part was Iman’s athleticism and his work ethic allowed him to embrace the timing and coordination necessary. If he rushed it or missed the cues from Daniella a serious injury could easily occur. Trust is important and that’s really difficult if you are celebrity that only relies on you and not a team. Most athletes on this show are able to follow well because they are used to being coached. Dance is a sport after all. 
 

I remember season 12 the Semi Finals, Hines Ward and Kym Johnson were rehearsing their Salsa. They messed up a move she saw and tried to imitate on YouTube by those crazy Colombian salsa dancers and Hines’ full body weight landed on her neck. Kym was pretty badly injured, had to rest and wear a neck brace. Cheryl came in to rehearse Hines and was ready to step in. Still bruised and fragile Kym danced - the Salsa was now modified with no lifts but the Argentine Tango had to be performed as originally choreographed. Everyone held their breath as they started. It brought the house down because the team prevailed despite the threat of re-injury or worse. It could have went very badly but she was very lucky. 

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On 11/22/2021 at 10:03 PM, LexieLily said:

It was somehow the most Tyra thing ever that she was running for the mirrorball while everybody else was congratulating Iman and Daniella. BUT YAY I'M SO GLAD THEY WON! Their freestyle was freaking awesome. Did they ever mention who the other dancers were in that dance?

Seeing Suni doing the length of the floor in back splits in the opening number made me sad that she wasn't in the finale. And Melora. And Jimmie. 

Cody's freestyle was the happiest he's ever been and it looked like he didn't care if Cheryl was even in that dance or not. Ha. Cheryl got it mostly right in the video package when she said that she was introverted and he very much wasn't, and I just don't think they clicked as a partnership.

P.S.: I lost count at seven. How many shots of Tyra were in the 2 Becomes 1 Mel C. montage video?

Ha, all through that montage, I was like "there is A LOT of Tyra in this thing." She sure does enjoy the spotlight.

I was shocked, but so happy that Iman and Dani pulled off the win. Their partnership was the highlight of the season for me, they were genuinely close without ever making it showmance-y and Daniela was great at including little moments where they'd look at each other during dances. 

And Iman's attitude throughout the show was such a joy. Hard to make this goofy show seem cool, but he treated it like any competition and worked as hard as he would have in his basketball career, so it never seemed cheesy.

JoJo and Jenna in 2nd was a good result too, they truly did some amazing dances. But given Jojo's lifetime of experience in dance, I preferred for a true amateur to win. They also had a really nice partnership and JoJo clearly got a lot out of the experience.

Hated having Julianne back in the judge's panel, she is awful at it. Definitely made me appreciate Derek even more, they are both extremely talented dancers, but Derek carries himself so much better off the dance floor than Julianne.

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But given Jojo's lifetime of experience in dance, I preferred for a true amateur to win. They also had a really nice partnership and JoJo clearly got a lot out of the experience.

When you're putting together a roster of celebrities for a dance competition, I think you are always going to have celebrities who have varying experience with dance training. Especially if they are actors, or gymnasts, or maybe just took dance lessons when they were kids. They are all performers to some degree so the chances that they have some history of dance experience is a lot higher than in non-performer professions.

So should celebrities who've had dance experience be disqualified from competing? I think it would limit the pool of available competitors. As it is, they have a hard enough time rounding up enough D-list celebrities to fill an entire season. The reality is that a lot of the pro dancers are bigger stars than the "stars" are. Val, Sharna and others have been on a hit network show for years. They are far more famous that your Peloton instructors and YouTube vloggers and social media influencers.

For that reason I'm not sure Iman "deserved" to win simply on the basis that he had no dance experience. He may, in fact, have had exactly the same amount of experience in Argentine Tango and Viennese Waltz as JoJo did. He had his own strengths, literally, just different than hers.

Some times the best dancer wins and some times the most popular contestant wins. It's rarely both. In this case, I believe it was more of the latter, and that kind of sours the premise for me because it's less a dance competition than a popularity contest.

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28 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Some times the best dancer wins and some times the most popular contestant wins. It's rarely both. In this case, I believe it was more of the latter, and that kind of sours the premise for me because it's less a dance competition than a popularity contest.

Tom said it many many years ago. "This is part dance competition, part popularity contest. If it were only a dance competition, it'd be on PBS."

I'm a trained jazz/ballet/contemporary/salsa dancer, with very high expectations for those who win dance shows... Iman won because his dances were amazing. The choreography is a major part of what makes the show worth watching. Daniella choreographed rewatchable dances with a partner who had rhythm, natural ability, and showmanship. That IS the premise. Nothing sour about it.

I rewatched the Us dance two dozen times. I have already rewatched the Lose Control freestyle at least 5 times. I watched zero other competitors performances after seeing them live. Also, I had never in my life heard of Iman Shumpert nor Daniella! So, it wasn't his name that got him the win. It was the whole package.

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It's unfortunate Julianne is such a great dancer and choreographer but an intolerably shrill, vacuous judge/TV personality. 

Kudos to Jenna and Jojo for evoking girl power, glitz and joy, sex appeal and friendship in their dances each week.

I'm sure I'm like the only one but I would have preferred an Olivia win. 😋

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4 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

Tom said it many many years ago. "This is part dance competition, part popularity contest. If it were only a dance competition, it'd be on PBS."

I'm a trained jazz/ballet/contemporary/salsa dancer, with very high expectations for those who win dance shows... Iman won because his dances were amazing. The choreography is a major part of what makes the show worth watching. Daniella choreographed rewatchable dances with a partner who had rhythm, natural ability, and showmanship. That IS the premise. Nothing sour about it.

I rewatched the Us dance two dozen times. I have already rewatched the Lose Control freestyle at least 5 times. I watched zero other competitors performances after seeing them live. Also, I had never in my life heard of Iman Shumpert nor Daniella! So, it wasn't his name that got him the win. It was the whole package.

I studied ballet briefly as a child (only one full year and a few months a different year). So I never considered myself a dancer. I remembered very little from my once a week lesson when I was a little girl, and I started salsa and tango much older. I noticed that the folks who took many years of dance as children or had a lot of training in their adult years in other dance forms did pick stuff up much more easily. Some dancers on DWTS claim they don't have an edge over athletes like Iman though. As someone who's got training in different dance forms, what are your thoughts? 

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5 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

Maybe "ballroom dance experience," and not just a wedding or two.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I danced as a youngster and was a student of ballroom dancing for a time. My appreciation for the technical side of dance is akin to what Len is looking for.  He reminds me of my teacher and  dance examiner. So if we measure on ballroom proficiency alone Melora is the winner.  Len just didn’t have a crush on her, she was  the best technical ballroom dancer.  But the show wants performers and Iman and Daniella gave great performances.

 

Iman may not have been well known to dance fans but a little research and Iman was representing for black culture. The fanbase was extensive, from his wife’s fans in hip hop, to the fans in the NBA to the fans of Chicago style footwork, to their reality show as a family. Not to mention him bringing the fans of this show who longed for the days when the show would reward untrained contestants. Even from the first Jive to Hey Ya, anyone who is a dancer or not could see the great potential Iman had as a performer.
 

Len gave notice that night he was not interested in performance potential he wanted technical precision, which is physically a greater challenge for this team than it was for the highest scoring women. So initially some ballroom might be an advantage; but it’s only an advantage if you have all the other ingredients: A pro who can choreograph to your strengths and a fanbase that can support it. 
 

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Whenever you have the public voting, it turns into a popularity contest.   Even So You Think You Can Dance declared they were trying to find America’s “most popular dancer” rather than the best.  

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The “best” is so subjective.

Len tries to score to a standard, but there’s no way Iman deserved a 4 for his Jive. I’m not sure what “standard” he was invoking.
Carrie Ann gave him 7 while the other judges gave him a 5. Were they lowballing him on purpose to test the fan vote or did that 4 mean Len wanted him out? 

Then on the Relay Olivia gets all the points because she did the Running Man in a Foxtrot. There’s no crying in baseball and there’s no Running Man in Foxtrot. Was it really worth all those points or were the judges afraid of an early departure?

At the other end of the spectrum you have JoJo getting a perfect score for an Argentine Tango that leaned more on Bob Fosse than Buenos Aires. I think if they’re going to do a specfic style then don’t confuse the viewer with Jazz just because it’s second nature to you and will get the fan vote. Were the judges over scoring to ensure a finale spot for JoJo? 
 

so yeah these celebrities come on the show to raise the Q level with the audience, so the fan vote should matter. 

Edited by White Dog
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11 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

Tom said it many many years ago. "This is part dance competition, part popularity contest. If it were only a dance competition, it'd be on PBS."

Derek knew it as well and was one of the strategies for his winning as much as he did. I can't believe that in 2021, Season 30 of this show, anyone still thinks this show is anything but and has always been, a glorified popularity contest. With some awesome dancing thrown in. 

As you noted, sometimes the most popular celebrity/pairing that season also happened to be an excellent dancer and so they won.  But many times, you could say another celebrity was technically better than the eventual champion but yes, the champion had more fans and thus, viewer votes. 

Nothing about this show has ever been fair. You have non-dancers vs dancers, old vs young, athlete vs people with two left feet, etc. I mean in the case of Iman vs JoJo - well not only was Iman not a professional dancer for years like her, there was that insane height difference to deal with, between him and Daniella.

Again, this is what Derek understood very quickly and all the hate he got for years for being "the Golden Boy" that was unfairly propped to his wins. And the truth was simply that Derek knew that the people deciding the winner weren't ballroom experts.

Some average Joe at their home, watching in their living rooms just want to be entertained. His job was to make his celebrities look passably like a ballroom dancer and do it in as entertaining fashion as possible. Don't hate the player, hate the game. 

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4 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Again, this is what Derek understood very quickly and all the hate he got for years for being "the Golden Boy" that was unfairly propped to his wins. And the truth was simply that Derek knew that the people deciding the winner weren't ballroom experts.

 

"Golden Boy" or not, Derek and Mark were always my favorites of the original pros. Of the current pros, Sasha and Pasha are my favorites of the guys, but I think that has more to do with attitude and the fact that they are generally smiling and seem to be having fun. And they're cute.

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5 hours ago, White Dog said:

At the other end of the spectrum you have JoJo getting a perfect score for an Argentine Tango that leaned more on Bob Fosse than Buenos Aires. I think if they’re going to do a specfic style then don’t confuse the viewer with Jazz just because it’s second nature to you and will get the fan vote

Of all the contestants this season, there's probably no one more media/voter savvy than JoJo and her momager. I had seen Dance Moms (only in passing but couldn't stand cruel Abby Lee Miller's "teaching" style). Seems like JoJo and her mother learned behind the scenes stuff  and made a lotta $$$ by participating on that series.

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9 hours ago, anonymiss said:

It's unfortunate Julianne is such a great dancer and choreographer but an intolerably shrill, vacuous judge/TV personality. 

Kudos to Jenna and Jojo for evoking girl power, glitz and joy, sex appeal and friendship in their dances each week.

I'm sure I'm like the only one but I would have preferred an Olivia win. 😋

I was with ya, Anonymiss...up until the last sentence, so I didn't give you a LIKE.                   The BEST part of your commentary is one word...the PERFECT word for Julianne.  VACUOUS!

vac·u·ous  /ˈvakyo͞oəs/  adjective  having or showing a lack of thought or intelligence; mindless.

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3 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

Of all the contestants this season, there's probably no one more media/voter savvy than JoJo and her momager. I had seen Dance Moms (only in passing but couldn't stand cruel Abby Lee Miller's "teaching" style). Seems like JoJo and her mother learned behind the scenes stuff  and made a lotta $$$ by participating on that series.

Yes. This is why I could never warm to this kid. She just seemed focussed on winning to propel her new dance reality show instead of enjoying the moment. She said all the right things but it just didn’t seem sincere.  I’ve voted for dancers before I thought Jordan just excelled at picking up ballroom and genuinely had a ball doing it  I get a very contrived enthusiasm from JoJo. 

Edited by White Dog
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 Iman won because his dances were amazing. 

Well . . . not all of them were. Some of his early dances were actually quite poor. I think the most impressive thing about him is the improvement he showed, but even at the very end, when he had to do slow dance moves in hold he tended to walk through them rather than dance them. When he was allowed to break out and bust a move he was great, but when he was required to adhere to strict ballroom technique he was mediocre at best. 

Daniella was just able to pull off a lot of impressive moments playing to his strengths and physicality. Don't get me wrong, I really warmed up to him and I'm OK with him winning but he won because he was more popular than the others, not because his dances were amazing. JoJo's dances were amazing too, and so were Amanda's and so were Suni's. 

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3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

OK with him winning but he won because he was more popular than the others, not because his dances were amazing. JoJo's dances were amazing too, and so were Amanda's and so were cult to  was difficult Suni's.

Dancing Foxtrot to an R And B pop tune with a Cha Cha tempo would be difficult for anyone. 

But he coped well and I saw a nice improvement on the Cha Cha forward locks. 

Moreover he was paired with a partner that is a foot shorter. That handicap alone is not going to win any ballroom competition.  So his ballroom was ordinary but much improved over the season. Some people do well at ballroom, some do well at Latin a few do well at both. 

But this show by adding Argentine Tango as well as Contemporary, Jazz  and Freestyle doesn’t make it a solely a ballroom competition, and some excel at these styles that are neither Latin or Ballroom. These  4 dances performed well  by Iman and Daniella were  memorable this season and that’s why they were amazing. Stand outs for me - Contemporary will be on my all time most memorable list, and their Freestyle is my favourite final dance in 30 seasons.

Another non-ballroom dance the Salsa would have been Amazing from Iman and Daniella.

I just don’t remember the other Salsas performed on this show this season, and other than two chicks dancing together I just don’t see other teams as  memorable. 

Edited by White Dog
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Once upon a time, didn't the finale include all the dancers for that season? Unless I'm imagining it, I could have sworn all the "stars" came back at the end for a group dance with their partner. Anyone else remember this?

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4 hours ago, MsTree said:

Once upon a time, didn't the finale include all the dancers for that season? Unless I'm imagining it, I could have sworn all the "stars" came back at the end for a group dance with their partner. Anyone else remember this?

All the couples did return for the opening number. If you’re talking about the days when the eliminated couples would return and redo a small part of their best dance during the Finale, that ended once the overblown finales stopped. That is, the days when the Finale episode was 3 hrs.

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22 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

Of all the contestants this season, there's probably no one more media/voter savvy than JoJo and her momager. I had seen Dance Moms (only in passing but couldn't stand cruel Abby Lee Miller's "teaching" style). Seems like JoJo and her mother learned behind the scenes stuff  and made a lotta $$$ by participating on that series.

I admit that I watched Abby's Ultimate Dance Competition.  Jojo and her mom were there as contestants on the second seasons  I was appalled when her mom admitted to bleaching Jojo's hair.  She was still really young then.  Her mom is definitely a momager and one of those pageant/competition moms.

13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well . . . not all of them were. Some of his early dances were actually quite poor. I think the most impressive thing about him is the improvement he showed, but even at the very end, when he had to do slow dance moves in hold he tended to walk through them rather than dance them. When he was allowed to break out and bust a move he was great, but when he was required to adhere to strict ballroom technique he was mediocre at best. 

Daniella was just able to pull off a lot of impressive moments playing to his strengths and physicality. Don't get me wrong, I really warmed up to him and I'm OK with him winning but he won because he was more popular than the others, not because his dances were amazing. JoJo's dances were amazing too, and so were Amanda's and so were Suni's. 

Yes, Iman had terrible ballroom technique at the beginning.  It was difficult to move his large feet and he was hunching over to make up for their height difference.  Even though, I wanted Iman or Jojo to win, I remember when I thought that he should be the one to go after Martin Kove and BAG (well Olivia too but for a different reason) even though he was likeable.  I was impressed with their AT during Disney night but then his Grease Viennese Waltz was not good.  I'm not sure that he would have won with a different pro.  Daniella really did choreograph to his strengths.  Her choreography was outstanding.  It was great that Iman brought King Kemo to do the freestyle too.

Derek was really good at choreographing to his partners' strengths.  Also, he had a great eye for production and was a perfectionist.  So he knew how to use background dancers, lighting, etc. to showcase him and his partner.

This season also showcased what normally happens in other seasons.  The women overall had better technique but they were too hard on themselves.  So it made their dances less enjoyable because you can see the tension in their faces/body, the hesitancy in their moves, etc.  The men were there having fun and hamming it up which makes their dances more fun.  Well, except for Martin because he really couldn't move. 

9 hours ago, MsTree said:

Once upon a time, didn't the finale include all the dancers for that season? Unless I'm imagining it, I could have sworn all the "stars" came back at the end for a group dance with their partner. Anyone else remember this?

 

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

All the couples did return for the opening number. If you’re talking about the days when the eliminated couples would return and redo a small part of their best dance during the Finale, that ended once the overblown finales stopped. That is, the days when the Finale episode was 3 hrs.

I remember when some of the dancers came back and some re-did dances with their partners.  However, the finale used to also be two nights.  The Freestyle would be on the first night along with another dance.  Then we had all night to vote.  I hate that I can't even see the dances before voting since I live in Utah.  Sometimes, I forget to vote like during the finale this season.  The second night would be like a party/celebration and that's when we saw the other dancers. 

Was the season previously longer?  I remember Christmas themed dances so I thought the season previously ended in December.

Edited by realdancemom
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9 hours ago, realdancemom said:

Was the season previously longer?  I remember Christmas themed dances so I thought the season previously ended in December.

No, it always went for ten weeks, ending the fall season just before Thanksgiving back when the show was on in both the spring and the fall. Strictly Come Dancing still runs through the first part of December, with an additional Christmas competition after the main season concludes.

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11 hours ago, realdancemom said:

I was appalled when her mom admitted to bleaching Jojo's hair. 

My niece is 57.  Her mother (my sister) and her father were divorced when she was very young.  Her father married a friend of ours who became a hairdresser.  She bleached my niece's hair from the time she was FIVE YEARS OLD.  My sister couldn't afford to go to court to fight something like this--and the father said that's the only she'll stop the stepmother.

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On 11/24/2021 at 11:20 PM, iMonrey said:

For that reason I'm not sure Iman "deserved" to win simply on the basis that he had no dance experience. He may, in fact, have had exactly the same amount of experience in Argentine Tango and Viennese Waltz as JoJo did. He had his own strengths, literally, just different than hers.

For me he deserved to win precisely because JoJo had transferable skills from her dance background. Anyone who has ballet is already well prepared to tackle Viennese Waltz. There is a waltz 3/4 timing in ballet, same as V Waltz. The posture necessary for ballet is perfect for Waltz. JoJo Argentine Tango had heavy elements of Jazz, her Foxtrot infused Contemporary and her Freestyle had more Jazz .  

Iman brought musicality and rhythm and strength that would have been well suited for Salsa, Swing or Lindy Hop but he wasn’t assigned any of those dances, because those dances do not require the technical footwork, or posture elements but require the ability to perform daring tricks if you are physically able. Instead he’s given very technical dances where he has no transferable skill. If there were a comparison to his profession,It would be like asking the smallest male pro Sasha to guard Kobe Bryant. When Contemporary was assigned they blew everyone away. Even dance experts were thrilled with the partnering and the expression Iman brought to the piece. Where did that chemistry with Daniella come from? That is a natural ability, something the ones with a lifetime of training couldn’t match. He brought a beautiful sexually charged redemption Tango to the dance floor, which may not have had the technical footwork, but it brought the expression and posture necessary to convey the dance properly. I’ll take that over Jazz ballroom any day of the week. 

Edited by White Dog
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13 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

No, it always went for ten weeks, ending the fall season just before Thanksgiving back when the show was on in both the spring and the fall. Strictly Come Dancing still runs through the first part of December, with an additional Christmas competition after the main season concludes.

Thank you.  Maybe, all the Christmas themed dances in the final were also when the final was two days instead of one.  So they had time to do extra dances with eliminated stars and theme dances.  I remember part of it being outside too. 

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I was SO happy Iman won. I've been away from paying attention to this show for several seasons, but Iman brought me back. There was so much joy in his freestyle--I went back to rewatch after he won, and it just made me happy. Even though I was watching by myself on my DVR I still found myself clapping for him. I loved his partnership with Daniella and her choreography was amazing. 

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On 11/24/2021 at 11:20 PM, iMonrey said:

When you're putting together a roster of celebrities for a dance competition, I think you are always going to have celebrities who have varying experience with dance training. Especially if they are actors, or gymnasts, or maybe just took dance lessons when they were kids. They are all performers to some degree so the chances that they have some history of dance experience is a lot higher than in non-performer professions.

So should celebrities who've had dance experience be disqualified from competing? I think it would limit the pool of available competitors. As it is, they have a hard enough time rounding up enough D-list celebrities to fill an entire season. The reality is that a lot of the pro dancers are bigger stars than the "stars" are. Val, Sharna and others have been on a hit network show for years. They are far more famous that your Peloton instructors and YouTube vloggers and social media influencers.

For that reason I'm not sure Iman "deserved" to win simply on the basis that he had no dance experience. He may, in fact, have had exactly the same amount of experience in Argentine Tango and Viennese Waltz as JoJo did. He had his own strengths, literally, just different than hers.

Some times the best dancer wins and some times the most popular contestant wins. It's rarely both. In this case, I believe it was more of the latter, and that kind of sours the premise for me because it's less a dance competition than a popularity contest.

No, I don't think anyone with prior dance experience should be disqualified. I often like the ringers because a well-executed dance is more fun to watch than a 2-left-footed person clumping around awkwardly. 

But for me, I'm certainly going to be more impressed with the growth and improvement of a person without that experience who ends up doing well and putting on entertaining performances. I play a competitive sport where seasoned players routinely sandbag their ratings so they can play in a field of less experienced players. So yeah, they win their divisions, but it's hardly impressive when you factor in that you have a former D1 college player up against someone who just picked up the sport 5 years ago. So for JoJo to have dance training since she was a small child and to have stayed in that space all these years, for her to dance well is the expectation and product of years of experience, whereas for Iman to be picking up a new set of skills on the fly and to do as well as he did is a measure of hard work, the talent of his pro and her choreography, and raw talent.

This is no Bobby Bones win, where the outcome was genuinely popularity outside of the show over anything that happened in the show, which for me, is the only time I have an issue with the "popularity contest" aspect of the show.

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Daniella was just able to pull off a lot of impressive moments playing to his strengths and physicality. Don't get me wrong, I really warmed up to him and I'm OK with him winning but he won because he was more popular than the others, not because his dances were amazing. JoJo's dances were amazing too, and so were Amanda's and so were Suni's. 


 

But WHY was he more popular? He wasn't a sports name with national recognition like an Emmet Smith or Kareem Abdul-Jabar, where even non-sports watchers might have at least heard of them. I'd never heard of him before this and assumed he was going to be just another awkward tall NBA guy who'd be gone by week 2.

IMO, his popularity with voters came from his time on the show. His intro packages were always endearing, the partnership clearly clicked, and he had a positive attitude no matter what the judges had to say. I'd never heard of JoJo either, but she clearly has a contingent of fans out there that pre-date the show, so the claim that he was simply more popular than her doesn't ring true for me. And she certainly got the lion's share of the press to start off with with her choice of a same-sex dance partner.

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5 hours ago, White Dog said:

For me he deserved to win precisely because JoJo had transferable skills from her dance background. Anyone who has ballet is already well prepared to tackle Viennese Waltz. There is a waltz 3/4 timing in ballet, same as V Waltz. The posture necessary for ballet is perfect for Waltz. JoJo Argentine Tango had heavy elements of Jazz, her Foxtrot infused Contemporary and her Freestyle had more Jazz .  

Iman brought musicality and rhythm and strength that would have been well suited for Salsa, Swing or Lindy Hop but he wasn’t assigned any of those dances, because those dances do not require the technical footwork, or posture elements but require the ability to perform daring tricks if you are physically able. Instead he’s given very technical dances where he has no transferable skill. If there were a comparison to his profession,It would be like asking the smallest male pro Sasha to guard Kobe Bryant. When Contemporary was assigned they blew everyone away. Even dance experts were thrilled with the partnering and the expression Iman brought to the piece. Where did that chemistry with Daniella come from? That is a natural ability, something the ones with a lifetime of training couldn’t match. He brought a beautiful sexually charged redemption Tango to the dance floor, which may not have had the technical footwork, but it brought the expression and posture necessary to convey the dance properly. I’ll take that over Jazz ballroom any day of the week. 

I would have been happy with either an Iman or Jojo win.   I believe that Jojo came from the dance competition world so I'm not sure how much ballet training she has.  For sure, she has jazz, contemporary, and studio hip-hop training.  This means that her skills are actually more transferable than somebody that is solely a ballet dancer.  The latter may not do well in Latin dances or even certain styles of jazz dances.  I think Amanda and the Bachelorette women fall in that category.  I've taken funk classes where some girls looked too pretty when they did funk (too old to have studied hip-hop at a studio).

In regards to ballet helping with Viennese Waltz, this is definitely true.  My daughters started with competition dancing but then concentrated on ballet/pointe at a ballet studio.  However, they still took some Latin ballroom dancing and continued with jazz and hip-hop.  They performed with the Vibe studio (where Lindsay, Witney, and Brandon went) when they did Latin Showcase or jazz/hip-hop/Latin fusion dances for shows even though they went to a ballet academy and not the Vibe.  They did some cabaret competitions but for fun.  They had limited standard ballroom training.  When one of my daughters was in college, she wanted to also learn Viennese Waltz.   She easily picked it up because of her ballet training.

With that being said, Jojo and Jenna also had a great partnership like Daniella/Iman.  Their dances were technically very difficult even though yes, some of that is because of the jazz elements in them.  Some of what I'm writing next is a repeat of previous posts, sorry about that.  Jojo was originally very hesitant when it came to the sexual dances.   She also sometimes hit too hard and had no dynamics.  Sabrina comes to mind when I think of somebody like that.  Jenna/Jojo really did dance as one in the end and it was nice to see Jenna dance with somebody that could match her technique and performance wise.  I'm very impressed that Jojo did the lifts with heels while spinning.  She most likely has done lifts before in contemporary but I bet it wasn't in heels.  As I previously wrote, I was a little disappointed in their freestyle though.  While I keep wanting to re-watch Iman's freestyle.

Edited by realdancemom
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4 hours ago, realdancemom said:

Maybe, all the Christmas themed dances in the final were also when the final was two days instead of one

I remember the Christmas shows were at some shopping area in LA. I think it was The Grove?  Tom and Erin would go there in a golf cart. And there was a sketch with Gary Busey playing Santa Claus and the jockey who was a contestant asking for a pony. GB was crazy interacting with Erin. Maybe he would've zinged Tyra.  Those were really the good old days. 

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I loved that Iman won, he just radiated joy.  I did think the emphasis on his height was a little overblown…except for the fact that his partner was a foot shorter.  My family is all really tall, so someone 6’5” isn’t that unusual.  It’s not like he was 7 feet.  :)

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On 11/25/2021 at 3:51 AM, RealHousewife said:

I noticed that the folks who took many years of dance as children or had a lot of training in their adult years in other dance forms did pick stuff up much more easily. Some dancers on DWTS claim they don't have an edge over athletes like Iman though. As someone who's got training in different dance forms, what are your thoughts? 

1000% we pick up on everything faster. Very few moves are "new," they are just in a new order. There is a leg up in the first 3-5 weeks of the show.

However, trained dancers have bad habits (I have my feet in turnout position almost all the time) that are hard to break. So something like Samba is NOT easier on a ballerina. But waltz is. Paso is easier for jazz dancers. So on and so forth.

Amanda's a wonderful example of a trained dancer who coasted at the beginning, but her Rockette style of dance made her look unnatural when she needed to show emotion that wasn't about the death of her husband. Jojo was more cross trained, her bad habits were more moldable than Amandas, for whatever reason.

But yes, trained dancers have it easier on this show.

Edited by BoogieBurns
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22 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

1000% we pick up on everything faster. Very few moves are "new," they are just in a new order. There is a leg up in the first 3-5 weeks of the show.

However, trained dancers have bad habits (I have my feet in turnout position almost all the time) that are hard to break. So something like Samba is NOT easier on a ballerina. But waltz is. Paso is easier for jazz dancers. So on and so forth.

Amanda's a wonderful example of a trained dancer who coasted at the beginning, but her Rockette style of dance made her look unnatural when she needed to show emotion that wasn't about the death of her husband. Jojo was more cross trained, her bad habits were more moldable than Amandas, for whatever reason.

But yes, trained dancers have it easier on this show.

Thank you! That's how I pictured the dance background would affect the celebs learning new dance forms on the show. 

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1 hour ago, BoogieBurns said:

However, trained dancers have bad habits (I have my feet in turnout position almost all the time) that are hard to break. So something like Samba is NOT easier on a ballerina.

 

This was Melissa Rycroft's problem when she did Samba or other Latin dances.  Her legs and feet were too turned out.  I think she fixed them a little later on but still noticeable.

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On 11/27/2021 at 11:22 AM, ljenkins782 said:

No, I don't think anyone with prior dance experience should be disqualified. I often like the ringers because a well-executed dance is more fun to watch than a 2-left-footed person clumping around awkwardly. 

But for me, I'm certainly going to be more impressed with the growth and improvement of a person without that experience who ends up doing well and putting on entertaining performances.

IMHO, fans don't mind ringers winning now and then, depending on the competitors, journeys, and partnerships. The problem this season--aside from debatable partnerships--was too many ringers, imho, including mega-ringers. The field appeared unfairly stacked against the non-dancers. 

3 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

However, trained dancers have bad habits (I have my feet in turnout position almost all the time) that are hard to break. So something like Samba is NOT easier on a ballerina. But waltz is. Paso is easier for jazz dancers. So on and so forth.

And ballroom dancers can have bad habits with regard to learning non-ballroom styles, as well. (Remember Karina and hip hop?) Consequently, we get a lot of safe theater jazz or cliche basic contemporary from less cross-trained ballroom pros on DWTS.

Conversely on DWTS, we saw jazz dancer Tyne struggle to become a ballroom pro with just introductory training; and then saw contemporary dancer Allison (whose primary ballroom background appeared to be choreographing fusion dances with Derek) struggle as well.

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