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Pallas

S01.E02: F Sharp

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As the teens get their bearings amid the wreckage, Misty finds hell on earth quite becoming. In the present: revenge, sex homework and the policeman formerly known as Goth.

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Misty is even worse than I thought. I can understand that she liked that people finally respected her for once. But sabotaging the emergency transmitter so they wouldn't be found? I wonder if anybody else found out about that.

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16 hours ago, paulvdb said:

I wonder if anybody else found out about that.

It sure doesn't seem like Natalie knows or I'd expect her to have shot Misty's face off years ago.

So one of the boys survived! We only know that there were "others" and with the reveal of Travis, the requirement of plural survivors beyond Taissa and Shauna is fulfilled, so in theory there doesn't need to be any other survivors. But I do think there'll be at least one more out there.

I liked the way Laura Lee's "I caused this" was resolved, in that even she realized that thinking was silly.

Jeff is a boring dude and I have a feeling whatever fantasy Shauna might have had in her head would have been more imaginative - and also given more insight into her character - than his. So I was sorry we never heard her offer one.

The immediate aftermath of the plane crash was so gripping. In the first episode, I found the girls and the women equally intriguing, but in this one, I was definitely more interested in the girls. I think the show established that the extreme shock these kids went through may pave the way for future choices they make as they try to survive in the wilderness.

And Jackie should sleep with one eye open, because Van is pissed at her. Wasn't Van the girl who slapped her own mother? And that other girl doesn't have a lot of pills left...

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Misty is a straight up psychopath. I wouldn't be surprised if she 'helped' patients along in their need to die.

Shauna is the most interesting girl, but her ability to attract cute young guys is baffling. Both Adam and Kyle flirted with mom Shauna.

I wouldn't be surprised if half the group decided to hump out of there, but we still have several episodes to find out.

 

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4 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

Shauna is the most interesting girl, but her ability to attract cute young guys is baffling. Both Adam and Kyle flirted with mom Shauna.

I'm suspicious of Adam. I think he knows exactly who she is and the car crash was a set-up. Maybe he's in cahoots with the reporter-who's-not-a-reporter, since Shauna turned her down. Speaking of her, I was looking at the kids who survived the plane crash and there are a number of them who she could be related to.

Kyle - isn't that her daughter's boyfriend? I didn't read that as flirtation, just him making nice with his girlfriend's mom. A fist bump is not flirtatious.

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2 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I'm suspicious of Adam. I think he knows exactly who she is and the car crash was a set-up. 

My first thought was that Adam was a plant. It's unlikely a hot, young guy would be interested in a shleppy middle-aged housewife who was a total bitch to him. Also his, "you don't play by the rules" remark sounded like someone who had intel on her. Adam wouldn't have deciphered that about Shauna from the brief exchange they had after the fender bender. 

With regards to Misty, who else screamed at their tv when she found the black box? I knew immediately what she was going to do with it.

I also screamed when Vanessa emerged from the plane. I was NOT expecting that, and boy did she look pissed! Interesting though, how we get another glimpse at Jackie's dual personalities. She pulls Shauna out of the plane to save her, yet guilt trips her over it later that night. 

I also loved the brief glimpses of humor. The girls revealing their secrets around the campfire. Adult Misty annoying the shit out of Adult Nat with Wilson Phillips playing in the background. Juliette Lewis and Christina Ricci are brilliant together and the 90s nostalgia is so awesome. 

 

Edited by BitterApple
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So far, it looks that Misty got away with sabotaging the black box, given that Nat didn't realise Misty had done the same to her car. However, I'm open to the possibility that Nat has Misty's number and is going along with it for now. 

 

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I am thinking Misty may have had the time of her life up on that mountain.   She was being bullied before and I can see this being a version of a coming of age into a full fledged sociopath for her with actual power that just….stops when they get rescued and she goes back to being a nurse that kinda creeps people out.   Look at her scene in the pilot she was pleasant to the other nurses or whatever but they ignored her.   Even if they all agreed not to monopolize on the plane crash she could have “poor me’d” herself into a career but there is probably “something” about her personality that creeps people out after awhile. 

As for Shauna she is more the passive aggressive type who controls her family with petty acts of vengeance like the dead rabbit thing when her daughter forgot to defrost the meat and leaving the phone number on her arm and making hubby feel bad about questioning her on it.   As for the guy she bumped I am keeping an open mind for now.  I know guys who actually like the kind of personality Shauna projects the “fuck you….now help me” thing and find it kinda hot at least as a gf.   
 

i have loved Juliet Lewis since Natural Born Killers so I am having a fun time watching her in this.   “Hello Misty.  You crazy fucking bitch.”  Was probably my favorite line of the night.   But I also really like them teaming up.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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5 hours ago, Servalan said:

So far, it looks that Misty got away with sabotaging the black box, given that Nat didn't realise Misty had done the same to her car. However, I'm open to the possibility that Nat has Misty's number and is going along with it for now. 

 

Misty also disabled her own car so her date, who was obviously trying to bail, would have to drive her home. She's certainly a handy little psychopath, isn't she. 

Was Kevin the dark-haired kid Nat hung out with as a teen? It looked like his business card had some sort of badge logo on it, so I wonder if he works in law enforcement. 

With regards to Travis, I assumed there were no male survivors. I'm looking forward to seeing what his role is in all of this. 

 

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I think Natalie totally had a feeling Misty did something to her car. Nat's not dumb, and the car not starting, Misty just so conveniently coming along on her day off with 2 coffees - what a coinkeydink. Juliette's Lewis' face in that scene was great. 

I wasn't sure if I wanted to watch a Lord of the Flies with girls, especially after reading the story of the Tongan boys that this really happened to who came together and built a small functional community while awaiting rescue without all the LOTF Piggyness of it all, but the actors are great and I'm intrigued by the mystery. I've always liked how Melanie Lynsky can go from sweetheart to scary with a look. 

 

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7 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Was Kevin the dark-haired kid Nat hung out with as a teen? It looked like his business card had some sort of badge logo on it, so I wonder if he works in law enforcement. 

Yes, and yes. He's a detective.

Speaking of, Misty mentioned she's a citizen investigator. I died laughing at Christina Ricci's brilliant delivery of "We're like private investigators, except nobody pays us and nobody asked us to help." You could tell exactly from the delivery that Misty relishes this; she's one of those citizen detective assholes who harass and torment the people (victims, suspects, etc.) in these cases. I wonder if Adam and/or the "reporter" is also one of these citizen investigators.

Natalie insisting on driving made me think she felt Misty had perhaps tampered with her car. I don't believe she knows about the plane transmitter (Misty'd be dead already), but she's too smart not to suspect Misty for car tampering. I chuckled at the difference between the women's cars, too, Misty's overly perky cute little car juxtaposed with Natalie's black one. I also chuckled at the guy noping outta there when Misty turned on the lights and Natalie greeted her. This show has more humor than I'd expected! I hope we get to see some of the actual road trip rather than them just arriving at Travis's place. I agree Ricci and Lewis are gold together.

Nobody has talked about that symbol being carved into a tree. So is someone else already there? A survivalist maybe?

I loved Shauna efficiently butchering that rabbit for dinner. Of course she wouldn't be the slightest bit squeamish about it; she must have done plenty of that while stuck in the woods for 19 months. I totally rolled my eyes at Jeff being so certain that she was just kidding. It's like he has no awareness of what his wife went through. I'm sure she didn't tell him about Whatever Happened They're Not Supposed to Talk About Or They're All Fucked, but they survived in the wilderness for 19 months. Obviously they killed and ate animals whenever they could.

I noticed BTW the show is still being careful to keep the exact timeline of Shauna and Jeff's relationship a secret. The marriage therapist said only that they've been together for a long time. I pointed out in the previous ep thread that their daughter can't be more than 18 years old, and this is the "25th anniversary". Depending on whether that's the anniversary of the plane crash or the rescue, Shauna's daughter was born 5-7 years after the anniversary. It is possible that Jackie survived, went back to Jeff, eventually they broke up, and then Shauna and Jeff got together and married while Jackie is one of "the others" whose whereabouts aren't known.

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So Misty faking her car breaking down to try and get her date to come home with her was foreshadowing her breaking the emergency transmitter so that they wouldn't be found. She's certainly a manipulative little psycho, as a teenager and as an adult. I knew it was coming but I still gasped when she smashed that box, now everyone who dies after this is on her, although I cant imagine that she cares. She was a mousy bullied or ignored girl who desperately wanted to be wanted, even if she had to do something unbelievably awful so that she could feel important, what a terror. This is a perfect situation for a psychopath like her. I highly doubt the other girls know what she did, or else Natalie probably would have blown her head off ages ago.

Loved the date being like "nope, hard pass" when they found Natalie in the house, I am really enjoying the sprinklings of dark humor we are getting. 

I definitely suspect the guy Shauna met is a plant, possibly in cahoots with the alleged reporter. What if they are actually relatives of someone who died on the plane and they want to know what really happened? 

I am really liking both the modern story and the 90s flashbacks, but the 90s flashbacks were the most thrilling this week, that plane crash and the immediate aftermath was so brutal, big kudos to all of the actresses who really sold their shock and horror at what happened. Except for Missy of course, who was practically gleeful about getting to be the big girl on campus for once. Jackie better watch her back, Van is looking mighty pissed off at her, and she seems like a girl you don't mess with even at the best of times, let alone in a survival situation. 

We now know that one boy, the coaches older son, survived to the modern day, so that's one boy and four girls confirmed as of now right? I have been guessing there are a few more, considering Shauna and Taissa talked about "the others" not being in touch, which I guess could be Misty and Travis as they know where Natalie is, but I am guessing there are a few more around. So many mysteries, we now not only have the creepy postcards, we have someone possibly stalking Taissa's family, whoever this "reporter" is, the symbol on the tree, and of course, just finding out what went down out there. 

The possibility of someone else being out there is really interesting, although I hope this doesn't become like Lost where the supposedly deserted island/mountain actually has about a thousand people running around offscreen. I swear, if the girls find a polar bear...

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tennisgurl, It's funny you mentioned Lost, because Sammy reminds me so much of Walt. I'm hoping this show doesn't go off the rails like Lost did, where the writers bungled the supernatural elements and couldn't tie it all together in the end. 

I think there's definitely more loose ends out there aside from Travis. Speaking of which, is it possible HE was in the cannibalism scene, and not just the girls? 

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Misty has “Cult Leader” written all over her.   Someone with a modicum of intelligence and alot of psychopathy,  put her in a place where she can assert her control and where all the other girls are falling apart she could play The Who “follow me I’ll keep you alive” game where she makes them do worse and worse things.   Which is probably why there is some weird vibes going on between Misty and Jackie.   Jackie has had some time to reflect on rehab or wherever she was but there is still that initial nagging that Misty did save their lives even if she is a crazy bitch.

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19 hours ago, BitterApple said:

My first thought was that Adam was a plant. It's unlikely a hot, young guy would be interested in a shleppy middle-aged housewife who was a total bitch to him. Also his, "you don't play by the rules" remark sounded like someone who had intel on her. Adam wouldn't have deciphered that about Shauna from the brief exchange they had after the fender bender. 

(snip)

I also screamed when Vanessa emerged from the plane. I was NOT expecting that, and boy did she look pissed! Interesting though, how we get another glimpse at Jackie's dual personalities. She pulls Shauna out of the plane to save her, yet guilt trips her over it later that night. 

There was also something about the way Adam said Shauna's name during that bit, too. Like he's very familiar with her.

And yes, that was a great example of Jackie's dual personalities. Guilt-tripping Shauna about it was the smart play considering how mad Van is at her (she needs Shauna in her corner rather than also complaining about what went down with Van on the plane), but all the same.

Jackie's choice on the plane is also nicely dualistic. First, she left Van, but she did at least save Shauna - she could have just jetted out of there and left both of them. Second, I know there is a point where I would have dragged my best friend away in order to save her. I felt like Jackie gave up too quickly on Van, but I also recognize it's easy for me to say that watching comfortably on my bed without having flames feet from me blasting heat in my face, probably the smell of fuel in the air, and adrenaline and panic coursing through my body while also in a state of mental shock.

The actress playing young Shauna was so good with the facial expressions as Jackie dragged her away, and then when she heard the screaming and thought Van was being burned alive. Casting hit a home run with all these teens really.

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

tennisgurl, It's funny you mentioned Lost, because Sammy reminds me so much of Walt. I'm hoping this show doesn't go off the rails like Lost did, where the writers bungled the supernatural elements and couldn't tie it all together in the end. 

I think there's definitely more loose ends out there aside from Travis. Speaking of which, is it possible HE was in the cannibalism scene, and not just the girls? 

Yeah, I'm hoping this show has no supernatural elements. I'm fine with one survivalist or something like that; it would make sense to have someone around in the early going who could teach the kids how to make traps and weapons out of what they have. But please no supernatural, no Others, etc.

Travis is not built that differently from the girls and those disguises really cover the kids wearing them. I think he very well may be one of the cannibals. Maybe he ate his own brother and that's why, or at least partly why, he wants to be well off the radar.

In dark humor, I also enjoyed Misty's explanation for how she knows all this medical stuff: "I took the Red Cross babysitters class. Twice!" I've never taken that class, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't include a tutorial on chopping off a limb with an axe.

And one of the girls said what we were all thinking about Allie, whose broken leg kept her off the plane.

Finally, I'm very curious what would have happened to Misty's date if he hadn't taken the opportunity to leave after seeing Natalie. I was afraid for him. There's only so far the psychological manipulation she was doing could get her.

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32 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

This is probably a completely shallow musing, but how did Natalie go from a trailer house to owning a 90's Porsche she kept in storage for 20 years?

 

Good question. One possibility is settlement money, but aside from Taissa, none of the women appear to be living an upscale lifestyle. Even Travis' house in the preview looked shabby. If they received a lump sum, it clearly wasn't enough to last a lifetime. Maybe Nat splurged on a luxury car and blew the rest to feed her addiction? 

Speaking of dark humor, one of the funniest moments was Van's scathing "You want to save the corn nuts" line after Jackie said they needed to conserve food. Like, "Food, what food, bitch?." I'm guessing Lottie's dad didn't spring for full catering or if he did, the majority of it was destroyed in the fire. Between that and suggesting they throw rocks at their coach, Jackie took a lot of L's last night. 

Edited by BitterApple
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That's what I was thinking too, some settlement money.

We hear about the hundred million dollar payouts but in reality most settlements are for a lot less, often because the defendant would rather settle for less than they'd have to pay at a trial while the plaintiffs can't afford to wait through years of litigation. And realistically, you give money to a bunch of people who have little to no experience handling money, and they blow through it and are broke again soon enough. Look at lottery winners and football players.

I noticed that Shauna and Jeff's wedding seemed big and expensive, if that huge multi-tier cake is anything to go by, but they are certainly having money problems now. So maybe they blew too much on their wedding and proceeded to sink too much into a struggling furniture business.

Misty might have used her money to get through college and become a nurse without having to take on student debt.

Now someone like Taissa certainly seems savvy enough to hire a financial planner. And while she's a politician now, a lot of politicians start out in law, so she may have followed that path herself and made a very nice sum from a successful legal career before transitioning into politics. Plus do we know what her wife does?

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2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Speaking of dark humor, one of the funniest moments was Van's scathing "You want to save the corn nuts" line after Jackie said they needed to conserve food. Like, "Food, what food, bitch?."

I actually thought Van meant it as "you wouldn't save me, but you want to save the corn nuts" - but either way, it was funny. Maybe that's why she said it, she thought Jackie would take it the former way while the other girls would think she just meant how silly it is to save corn nuts. As pissed as Van is, she doesn't seem ready to tell the other girls about it and force them to take sides between her and Jackie. Which is wise, really, because it's not clear how everyone would split. Jackie would argue she was saving her best friend and at least some of the girls would be sympathetic to that. Others would take a more rigid "you never leave someone behind!" mentality, but all of the survivors are complicit in that, aren't they? A lot of them just left the plane without checking around for others who needed help first. Van ended up getting out on her own. Shauna and Jackie were the only ones who even went up to her to try to help.

Jackie was right in thinking ahead, though obviously if you end up stuck for 19 months it doesn't matter if you ate the corn nuts the first night or the next day. But we're getting a sense that she's a strategic, ruthless thinker in her own way, between the decision to leave Van and the consideration of their food supplies.

Nobody has thought of survival cannibalism yet, despite the availability of bodies. Maybe Misty did, but if so, she kept it to herself. It will be interesting to see how she times her suggestions. She's the only one who knows about the flight transmitter not working anymore. The other kids don't and so they will hold out hope for a little while before really considering more extreme tactics. Misty could lead them to the flight transmitter and let them think that it broke of its own accord, so that things will move faster, or she could just let the gradual petering of hope play out.

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11 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

This is probably a completely shallow musing, but how did Natalie go from a trailer house to owning a 90's Porsche she kept in storage for 20 years?

 

One of the girls mentioned in the pilot that her father rented the plane.    This wasn’t the school purchasing the plane.   So if dad went “cheap” or if the owners of the plane company used substandard parts….heck this may be the reason. They all agreed to keep quiet.   For a lot of them it was their way out and alot of them probably took it.

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I’m sorry that I started watching this because I think I’d prefer to binge it and watch straight through, but now that I’ve started I cannot stop! I have loved Melanie Lynskey since Heavenly Creatures, and I would pay to watch Juliette Lewis and  Cristina Ricci read the phone book, so I’m hooked. What I didn’t expect was to enjoy the young actresses so much, though once I realized that the actress who played Evie in The Leftovers I knew this would be good. Add a kickass soundtrack to the dark humor and an amazing cast, and I’m all in.

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2 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Cannibalism? What are they doing for water?

They'll have to look soon, but they're in a good area for that. There'll be a stream or river somewhere nearby, the water should be pretty clean on its own, but there's also plenty of wood for making a fire in which to boil it. They can also use their tampons for crude filtration.

There are probably drinks from the plane, for the moment.

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There was a brief glimpse of Van pulling sodas out of a drink cart, so their immediate needs would be taken care of for at least a few days. 

One thing that interests me is the cabin we'll see in next week's episode. From the brief glimpse in the preview, it appeared large, well-built and had glass windows. Just how far from civilization could they possibly be? Whoever built it would've had to haul a lot of tools and materials into the woods. 

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On 11/23/2021 at 7:26 AM, rlc said:

What I didn’t expect was to enjoy the young actresses so much, though once I realized that the actress who played Evie in The Leftovers I knew this would be good

I've never seen The Leftovers, so I looked it up on IMDB to find out which actress you were referencing and was startled to see that I knew her (Jasmin Savoy Brown) from the short-lived Shondaland show For The People, which she played an adult lawyer in. So then I checked out her age and, holy shit, she's 27. I looked up a few of the other "teens" and teen Travis seems to be the oldest actor, at 30. (Again, holy shit.) Most of the others are around 25. The youngest I found, by far, is teen Shauna, who is 21. Teen Natalie doesn't have her age available, but she has a short resume, so she might actually be a teenager. I thought teen Van would be a teenager or close for sure, but nope, she's 26.

First, no wonder casting did so well with finding talent - lots easier to find talent when you are casting older actors who have had some training and experience. But they also found a lot of baby-faced actors (or who can at least be made up that way) who still remember how to come off as teenagers. I didn't think they were all 15 just because that's unlikely, but I never guessed that these actors are almost all in their mid-20s and up. (Most of the teen characters in The Wilds were played by actors in their early 20s at the time of filming the first season. No points for guessing who the oldest one was. I enjoyed her but she didn't come close to passing as a teenager in looks or attitude.)

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Misty could lead them to the flight transmitter and let them think that it broke of its own accord, so that things will move faster, or she could just let the gradual petering of hope play out.

I feel like she would go with a gradual petering out of hope. More stressful.

Whew, I'm all in for scary stuff, but I might not be able to watch this on Sunday nights before going to bed and get up Monday morning. 

I was holding my breath that the plane didn't blow up and they were so close to it. I don't blame Jackie for trying to keep Shauna out of the plane, and it's pretty amazing that Van was able to get out of the plane safely since there was clearly someone in the background on fire and flames were getting closer. 

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On 11/22/2021 at 10:59 PM, Athena5217 said:

Misty named her pet bird “Caligula.” It’s like she is wearing a sign that says she is a psychopath.

No joke, I had a pair of lovebirds and named them Nero and Caligula. Their beaks could really draw blood! (Don't think I'm quite full psychopath, though I do think this planet is grossly overpopulated...)

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IRL I'd just laugh if someone told me their bird was named Caligula. assume it means the bird is a bit aggressive, and keep my fingers away. But of course, it's Misty. She's probably trained her bird to go for people's eyes.

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On 11/22/2021 at 8:29 PM, WaltersHair said:

This is probably a completely shallow musing, but how did Natalie go from a trailer house to owning a 90's Porsche she kept in storage for 20 years?

 

Going by that super-fancy seaside rehab facility, I’m guessing she’s “rich rich”. Tech pioneer? Fashion designer? Musician? 

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I noticed they did a certain bit twice in this episode and I don't know if it's foreshadowing or just dark humor, but twice Jackie is in the foreground and Misty is in the background with an axe. The first time is when Jackie's reacting to Van being alive. Misty's collecting the axe nearby and then she swings it up over her shoulder right behind Jackie. The second time is when Jackie is sharing her "secret" at the campfire, and Misty walks past her with the glowing red axe. It may not mean anything at all, but I'd be fine with every episode having Misty pass through the background with her axe.

Taissa and Van might be more than friends. Right before Misty chopped off the coach's leg, they were starting to touch each other's faces.

I also noticed that the Misty flashback sequence near the beginning was set in 1992, four years before the plane crash. Obviously she got the braces off her teeth and tried to do something more fun with her hair and joined the soccer team as an assistant, but I wonder if she was up to other things as well.

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As crazy as Misty is, watching her get bullied in the '92 flashback absolutely gutted me. A girl in my old neighborhood suffered similar torment and she ended up committing suicide in her early 20s. 

Random thought, but are we to assume Travis is living under a different name? Misty mentioned how difficult he was to track down. The print on the driver's license wasn't clear enough for me to read. 

Which leads me to a theory. Is it possible some of the survivors were left behind in the woods? I'm wondering if Jessica is a relative of someone who didn't make it out and she suspects her family member didn't die due to the crash, starvation, predators, etc.? 

 

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Ooo, interesting theory. They would definitely be fucked if that was the case and the truth came out.

Shauna writes in diaries and she's keeping the diaries of that time in her safe. Whatever the truth is, it's probably all in there. I can't believe she hasn't destroyed them, but maybe she's thinking blackmail material. But you'd think she'd at least keep them in a separate location from her home. Man, Jeff is dumb if he's never tried to find out what his wife's keeping in the safe in their bedroom closet. Burner phone, diaries...

It seems like Shauna has always been a liar and Jeff has always been a cheat.

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Man, Jeff is dumb

Nuff said. His girlfriend has his direct cell #, no burner? And seriously no imagination. Shauna probably married him out of safety and security, but is bored as heck. I do think that Adam has just a little bit too much interest in her (not that she's a great looking woman) for this to just be about a minor car wreck. 

How Misty showed Natalie that she got a postcard as well, but I don't take that as anything - she could have sent herself one. Disabling Natalie's car and two coffees...and of course the boyfriend's car. Zoiks.

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I just watched these first two episodes and I'm totally hooked. I do hope though, that there is some explanation for how a group of teenage surburbanites manage to learn how to hunt, kill, clean, and safely cook their prey- without any supplies. If they show them spearing animals with tree branches wielded into spikes that's going to be pretty ridiculous. I mean, I am all for suspending disbelief but come on.

The cooked girl (hanging naked) was one of the most disturbing scenes I've seen in a long time. Somehow that was even worse than falling in the pit of spikes. Reddit already has some pretty dark theories about who the girl is.

Teenage Shauna sure has quite the convenient moral compass, and possibly Adult Shauna does as well.

I also thought the guy that she rear ended has an ulterior motive for reaching out to her. When he said, I thought you didn't play by the rules, Shauna- that seemed a pretty meaningful remark. If he just thinks she's foxy and is hoping she's willing to cheat on her husband with a guy who will fix her minivan for free, that will be pretty disappointing. I am not sure I like Shauna's character but I really like Melanie Lynskey.  Her relationship with her husband is weird. They seem to have a fair bit of contempt for each other as both teenagers and as adults so why they would marry and stay married for 20 years (roughly) seems odd.

Christina Ricci as crazy Misty is just awesome. I wonder why the elderly patient was giving her such a hard time in the first place. She looked pretty cowed when Misty took away her morphine so for her own sake I hope she doesn't keep it up. Watching elderly abuse is difficult and I hope we don't see much more about that.

 

Speaking of things I hope we don't see more of- please no more Furniture Store Fantasies. That was painful.

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On 11/22/2021 at 10:38 PM, Black Knight said:

I actually thought Van meant it as "you wouldn't save me, but you want to save the corn nuts" - but either way, it was funny. Maybe that's why she said it, she thought Jackie would take it the former way while the other girls would think she just meant how silly it is to save corn nuts. As pissed as Van is, she doesn't seem ready to tell the other girls about it and force them to take sides between her and Jackie. Which is wise, really, because it's not clear how everyone would split. Jackie would argue she was saving her best friend and at least some of the girls would be sympathetic to that. Others would take a more rigid "you never leave someone behind!" mentality, but all of the survivors are complicit in that, aren't they? A lot of them just left the plane without checking around for others who needed help first. Van ended up getting out on her own. Shauna and Jackie were the only ones who even went up to her to try to help.

I can understand Van being hurt and angry, I guess, but, it wasn't like Jackie wanted to leave to get her nails done. There's an approaching fire and I am guessing the seatbelt wouldn't release- no amount of tugging on it is going to help. I can hardly blame Jackie for not wanting to be burned alive just to continue to futilely pull on the seatbelt. And you're totally right- most of the girls just shook themselves off and ran for the exits without a background glance. But I suppose that won't matter- anyone who wasn't in that exact situation can imagine themselves being a hero. Shauna did not seem very interesting in assuaging Jackie either.

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On 11/23/2021 at 6:22 AM, Chaos Theory said:

One of the girls mentioned in the pilot that her father rented the plane.    This wasn’t the school purchasing the plane.   So if dad went “cheap” or if the owners of the plane company used substandard parts….

I noticed on my rewatch that Van's mask didn't drop and she was punching the compartment trying to get it to open. Jot one in the "substandard parts" column. (I wasn't clear what was happening with not being able to get out of her seat - if it was the seatbelt or if she was pinned by something.)

21 hours ago, Kristi800 said:

Nuff said. His girlfriend has his direct cell #, no burner? And seriously no imagination.

This may be giving Jeff too much credit, and he's objectively dumb regardless, but I wonder if he wanted to get caught. He's obviously not happy in the marriage either but is also a pretty passive dude. It's a good thing he's kept himself in such great shape because he has nothing else going for him. Shauna is bored, Jackie largely seemed bored too, and I expect "Bianca" would get bored if she ever had to deal with a relationship instead of a sexy affair. Increasingly I feel Shauna's past interest in Jeff was entirely fueled by Jackie. I don't know yet exactly in what way that was, but if Jeff hadn't been Jackie's boyfriend I think Shauna would have been as completely dismissive of him as she was Randy.

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The cabin shown in the previews might be pretty well stocked with tools and knives, especially if it was used by hunters. As far as the girls learning to track, trap and kill prey? It'll be interesting to see if someone had prior experience or if they learned by trial and error. I'm thinking it's the former. They'd starve pretty quicky unless they ate the people who died in the crash.

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2 hours ago, Black Knight said:

This may be giving Jeff too much credit, and he's objectively dumb regardless, but I wonder if he wanted to get caught. He's obviously not happy in the marriage either but is also a pretty passive dude. It's a good thing he's kept himself in such great shape because he has nothing else going for him. Shauna is bored, Jackie largely seemed bored too, and I expect "Bianca" would get bored if she ever had to deal with a relationship instead of a sexy affair. Increasingly I feel Shauna's past interest in Jeff was entirely fueled by Jackie. I don't know yet exactly in what way that was, but if Jeff hadn't been Jackie's boyfriend I think Shauna would have been as completely dismissive of him as she was Randy.

I was wincing during that scene of Jeff and Jackie in bed with his hand down her pants. Granted I don't expect much more out of a teenage boy, but I would bet Jeff hasn't picked up much in 25 years. I am sure you're right about Shauna's interest being Jackie-centric because I don't see what else he brings to the table. I just don't understand why- Jackie seemed like a good friend to Shauna, if occasionally a bit tactless and self absorbed. Maybe some kind of competition or validation?

 

Also, I was really surprised to see that Shauna liked, cared when she realized Jeff was cheating. In fact, I assumed she already knew. When her daughter asked her if dad was working late, and then said she was sorry, she looked so sympathetic I thought they both meant Dad was "working late" again, something they both realized and just accepted without much interest. Jeff almost seems like Shauna's penance or something.

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

The cabin shown in the previews might be pretty well stocked with tools and knives, especially if it was used by hunters. As far as the girls learning to track, trap and kill prey? It'll be interesting to see if someone had prior experience or if they learned by trial and error. I'm thinking it's the former. They'd starve pretty quicky unless they ate the people who died in the crash.

Yeah, I suppose if they do come across weapons, one of the girls will pipe up with a throwaway line like, my dad and I go hunting! or something like that. That said, cleaning an animal is a little more complicated and not something you'd pick up necessarily just watching someone else do it, but I suppose that's a pretty minor nitpick.

 

I really hope an adult Jackie shows up. I assume they are keeping some of the characters as background characters so they can be killed off easily- right now we have the four confirmed alive women, plus Travis. I am interested to see what becomes of the religious girl, Van, and the TJ Maxx klepto, who are given enough lines each episode to make me think they will feature prominently somehow.

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6 hours ago, Tatum said:

I thought they both meant Dad was "working late" again, something they both realized and just accepted without much interest. Jeff almost seems like Shauna's penance or something.

When they were in therapy and there was a mention of "doing inventory", it was more like "doing" inventory (Bianca) and you knew he was having an affair. Yeah, I think she just married him because he was safe and normal and a tie to her safer past. 

Unless you were a survivalist, there wasn't much need of those skills in suburban NJ in the 1990s!

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On 11/23/2021 at 9:26 AM, rlc said:

I have loved Melanie Lynskey since Heavenly Creatures, and I would pay to watch Juliette Lewis and  Cristina Ricci read the phone book, so I’m hooked.

Totally agree, and these three are the main reason I'm sticking with this series, despite the obvious problems in the first two episodes.

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There may not be a need for it in suburban NJ but it looked like the kind of town where a number of people like to go hunting and fishing on weekends. So I wouldn't be surprised if at least a couple of girls have experience. In fact, we already had a hint of it because they had multiple campfires going the first night. Sure, maybe somebody had a lighter, but it's still not the easiest thing for someone with no experience. They also seemed pretty calm about having to spend a night out in the woods even though it was very much roughing it - no glamping here!

And of course there's always Misty, who may well have spent the past four years cutting up animals for the fun of it.

ETA: I looked at the pages of Shauna's diary that's shown in the first episode. She wrote that it's been nearly two weeks, why haven't they been found yet? (So looks like Misty does opt for the gradual petering out of hope rather than having them find the broken flight transmitter.) And then she wrote that they're all trying to remember how people survived in movies, but it's hard. (Alive came out in 1993, and since it has Ethan Hawke in it I bet some of these girls saw it.)

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On 11/23/2021 at 7:26 AM, rlc said:

I’m sorry that I started watching this because I think I’d prefer to binge it and watch straight through, but now that I’ve started I cannot stop!

I wish I could binge it too, but I'm finding I do appreciate having to watch it weekly because it grants me much more opportunity for rewatching. I'm obsessed!

On 11/26/2021 at 1:15 PM, Tatum said:

I was wincing during that scene of Jeff and Jackie in bed with his hand down her pants. Granted I don't expect much more out of a teenage boy, but I would bet Jeff hasn't picked up much in 25 years. I am sure you're right about Shauna's interest being Jackie-centric because I don't see what else he brings to the table. I just don't understand why- Jackie seemed like a good friend to Shauna, if occasionally a bit tactless and self absorbed. Maybe some kind of competition or validation?

Also, I was really surprised to see that Shauna liked, cared when she realized Jeff was cheating. In fact, I assumed she already knew. When her daughter asked her if dad was working late, and then said she was sorry, she looked so sympathetic I thought they both meant Dad was "working late" again, something they both realized and just accepted without much interest. Jeff almost seems like Shauna's penance or something.

(snip)

I really hope an adult Jackie shows up. I assume they are keeping some of the characters as background characters so they can be killed off easily- right now we have the four confirmed alive women, plus Travis. I am interested to see what becomes of the religious girl, Van, and the TJ Maxx klepto, who are given enough lines each episode to make me think they will feature prominently somehow.

In regards to Shauna and Jackie - oof, it's hard to be sure what's going on there. Jackie was distinctly unaroused by what Jeff was doing, but he's also a teenage boy, which would be sufficient explanation. Jackie sends Shauna some flirty glances, but she also negs her a lot. The red "boob dress" thing was interesting. (Especially since for all that Shauna was irritated by Jackie in that scene, after Jackie gave her "permission" to wear whatever she wanted, that's what Shauna ended up picking, the red boob dress.) Shauna could maybe be bisexual, since she's clearly into guys, but possibly might have some interest in girls - Jackie, that moment with Taissa in the diner?

@BitterApple is right in that there is a Marcia/Jan dynamic between Jackie and Shauna. For all that Jackie cares about Shauna, or how she might care about Shauna, she clearly has this vision where she's #1 and Shauna's #2, and also Shauna clearly resents it. And maybe for Shauna that's all there is, resentment of Marcia. I get where years of negging would have that effect, so for Shauna at least there doesn't necessarily have to be more. This episode established that scenes are not confined only to the 1996 and 2021 timelines, so I'm willing to bet we will see the beginnings of Shauna/Jeff. My guess is that the start was during one of Jackie and Jeff's many breakups, which is marginally better than Shauna just banging her best friend's current boyfriend right off.

Tangentially related - did anyone else notice that Bianca's text to Jeff was pretty bossy? Meet here at this time/date, don't be late. He is forever passive, even about his cheating (teen Shauna was obviously making all the decisions back then too). And Shauna seemed more annoyed than anything at seeing that text (similar to how teen Shauna looked on seeing Jeff climb out Jackie's window), perhaps because she turned down a younger cute guy on the presumption she should be faithful. Heartbroken, she did not seem.

I think the most important girls, other than Misty, are the ones Jackie lined up after the fight during the party. So in addition to Misty and Jackie, it's Shauna, Taissa, Natalie, Van, Laura Lee, and Lottie. A few girls died in the plane crash and I felt like the show missed a little bit of opportunity there because nobody surviving seemed to care in the slightest. Obviously there will be redshirts, but at least name the poor girls or something. They don't seem to have been anyone's best or good friends. That's why I really did think Van was dead and was shocked when she showed up, because she was the only recognizable one of the presumably "dead" girls and I thought there'd need to be a recognizable red shirt. But I guess the show didn't want to "burn" one of the recognizable ones that early. Eight recognizable girls is already a lot for viewers; I had to rewatch to get them all straight. (And yes, three guys, but they all are such different ages it's not that hard to keep them straight.)

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9 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I wish I could binge it too, but I'm finding I do appreciate having to watch it weekly because it grants me much more opportunity for rewatching. I'm obsessed!

In regards to Shauna and Jackie - oof, it's hard to be sure what's going on there. Jackie was distinctly unaroused by what Jeff was doing, but he's also a teenage boy, which would be sufficient explanation. Jackie sends Shauna some flirty glances, but she also negs her a lot. The red "boob dress" thing was interesting. (Especially since for all that Shauna was irritated by Jackie in that scene, after Jackie gave her "permission" to wear whatever she wanted, that's what Shauna ended up picking, the red boob dress.)...

Jackie does have some moments of self absorption...but I think, in her mind, she was trying to help Shauna. Jackie is probably one of the people who, unless told differently, assumes everyone feels the way she does and wants what she wants. Jackie thinks she would want guys checking her out, she would want the attention of a popular boy (no matter how uninteresting and uncouth), so she encourages Shauna to wear a low cut dress and flirt with the frat boys in the making. I honestly don't think she's trying to undermine Shauna- she assumes Shauna wants to emulate her (Jackie) and she's trying to show her how. Which, in itself could certainly be offensive, but not malicious.

 

I thought Shauna's reaction to Jeff sneaking out Jackie's window was interesting- she looked disappointed. And something about the way they were talking in the car- I got the impression that Jackie was considering breaking up with Jeff and had called it off, and Shauna was disappointed. And not necessarily because she was jealous. More like the disappointment a mom would have when her daughter was dating a loser. It isn't a stretch to me that Shauna considered Jeff beneath Jackie. Also, the sex scene was interesting only in that it was implied Shauna orgasmed when Jeff said he loved her. I certainly can't imagine she's in love with him and she knows full well he didn't mean it, so I really don't see what is in this for her. Very strange.

 

I am hoping we get more of the Shauna/Jackie friendship dynamic, but it seems like Shauna is already pulling away from Jackie following the plane crash. Her demeanor already seems a little distant and cold.

10 hours ago, Black Knight said:

And Shauna seemed more annoyed than anything at seeing that text (similar to how teen Shauna looked on seeing Jeff climb out Jackie's window), perhaps because she turned down a younger cute guy on the presumption she should be faithful. Heartbroken, she did not seem.

 

I was surprised to see any reaction at all. Jeff is the total asshole boyfriend/husband trope that the main actor in late 90s romcoms had to lure the main actress away from- he is the Glenn Gulia personified. It would be a bigger twist if he wasn't cheating on Shauna. Maybe she's more offended that he is being so indiscreet. Leaving your phone out, having your mistress as a contact by her actual name, being fine with her texting you times and locations of your next hotel tryst- he can't even work up the energy to try and hide it.

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1 hour ago, Tatum said:

Jackie does have some moments of self absorption...but I think, in her mind, she was trying to help Shauna. Jackie is probably one of the people who, unless told differently, assumes everyone feels the way she does and wants what she wants. Jackie thinks she would want guys checking her out, she would want the attention of a popular boy (no matter how uninteresting and uncouth), so she encourages Shauna to wear a low cut dress and flirt with the frat boys in the making. I honestly don't think she's trying to undermine Shauna- she assumes Shauna wants to emulate her (Jackie) and she's trying to show her how. Which, in itself could certainly be offensive, but not malicious.

Jackie's intent may not be full-on malicious, but it's negging all the same. Their very first scene together, Jackie makes a comment about not wanting to go to college a virgin - "no offense." Then there's the scene with "I thought you'd like to know somebody was interested," even her pushing that idiot at Shauna at all, and rejecting every outfit Shauna picked out for herself as ugh. And then even when she's supposed to say something nice about Shauna during the team-building exercise, she first says three things Shauna is bad at and then when she finally says something nice it's all about Shauna being a great sidekick to her, like that's all Shauna is good for and she has no good qualities on her own. Jackie came up with such great things to say to the other girls, things she knew they would like and also would build them up, and the qualitative difference between what she says to them and what she says to her best friend is noticeable.

Whatever Jackie's intent, this is negging. While every individual incident can perhaps be explained away, the sheer number of them over four years or however long Shauna and Jackie have been best friends will have a cumulative effect on Shauna. We all on occasion say something thoughtless and accidentally hurt the person we're talking to. That's normal. Repeatedly and frequently doing it like Jackie does is very different, and we also see that she doesn't treat other people this way, so it's not like she doesn't know how to get through a conversation without sticking her foot in her mouth. I don't know if it's part of the reason, or all of the reason, that Shauna started banging Jackie's on/off steady boyfriend, but if so, I can certainly buy it as the motivation. Shauna cares about Jackie, but has a lot of justifiable resentment towards her. Jackie cares about Shauna, but for whatever reason often isn't a very nice best friend. There are definitely times when she is, but negging doesn't mean never saying or doing anything nice. It's precisely because of that duality it can be hard for the person on the other end to recognize and call out the negging. The other thing is that negative interactions have more of an effect than positive interactions, so for a relationship to be on good terms, you need many more positive than negative interactions. I've heard psychiatrists say it takes three positive interactions to balance out one negative one. (So Jackie's three-negative-things and then one-nice-thing scene is interesting for being the exact opposite of the recommended ratio!)

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I thought Shauna's reaction to Jeff sneaking out Jackie's window was interesting- she looked disappointed. And something about the way they were talking in the car- I got the impression that Jackie was considering breaking up with Jeff and had called it off, and Shauna was disappointed. And not necessarily because she was jealous. More like the disappointment a mom would have when her daughter was dating a loser. It isn't a stretch to me that Shauna considered Jeff beneath Jackie. Also, the sex scene was interesting only in that it was implied Shauna orgasmed when Jeff said he loved her. I certainly can't imagine she's in love with him and she knows full well he didn't mean it, so I really don't see what is in this for her. Very strange.

Yeah, Shauna had that line about "no distractions before nationals." Jackie was totally supposed to break up with Jeff. Why Shauna wanted that to happen is still a mystery.

The other contrasting thing about the two different sex scenes with teen Jeff that jumped out at me is that he enthusiastically and without prompting said, "I fucking love you Jackie!" while obviously with Shauna it was the opposite. If Shauna knew that she'd probably sink into the ground, not because she actually cares about Jeff but because if she is banging him as a form of competition/one-upping Jackie, this means Jackie wins, so to speak. Shauna knew Jeff didn't mean it with her, but maybe she also thought that he wasn't saying it to Jackie either.

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39 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Their very first scene together, Jackie makes a comment about not wanting to go to college a virgin - "no offense."

I'm confused on that- is Jackie saying she had sex with Jeff the night before? Later in the car Shauna asks Jackie if she thinks Jeff is still a virgin. Obviously he wouldn't be if Jackie had just had sex with him. Or was she just saying she wants to keep dating him and have sex with him at a later date? It was a weird thing to say.

 

40 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

If Shauna knew that she'd probably sink into the ground, not because she actually cares about Jeff but because if she is banging him as a form of competition/one-upping Jackie, this means Jackie wins, so to speak. Shauna knew Jeff didn't mean it with her, but maybe she also thought that he wasn't saying it to Jackie either.

I think Shauna wouldn't care if he said it to Jackie or how he said it, because she knows it isn't true- he can't be in love with her if he's willing to humiliate her by cheating on her with her best friend. Maybe that's enough for her right there- proving to herself that someone doesn't love Jackie.

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15 hours ago, Tatum said:

I'm confused on that- is Jackie saying she had sex with Jeff the night before? Later in the car Shauna asks Jackie if she thinks Jeff is still a virgin. Obviously he wouldn't be if Jackie had just had sex with him. Or was she just saying she wants to keep dating him and have sex with him at a later date? It was a weird thing to say.

I thought they had sex the night before and Shauna was asking if Jeff was a virgin before that night.

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6 hours ago, paulvdb said:

I thought they had sex the night before and Shauna was asking if Jeff was a virgin before that night.

Shauna knows perfectly well Jeff wasn't a virgin since she and Jeff obviously have been having sex on and off for a little while. I took that question to be part of Shauna digging around to see whether Jackie has any idea of the truth about Jeff. Like obviously Jeff didn't tell Jackie about sleeping with Shauna or Jackie wouldn't have been friendly in the car, but just knowing Jeff had had sex with someone else might lead her to wondering who that was. But Shauna found out through her questioning that even though they've broken up multiple times Jackie still just doesn't think Jeff has ever slept with anyone else. (LOL.)

Interestingly, for all that Jackie talks, I'm not sure she and Jeff have had PIV sex, even now. The show chose to leave that open when they very easily could've made it unambiguous like they did with Shauna and Jeff's sex scene.

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