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S9.E24: Give Yourself Some Grace

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Amber and Gary finally go to therapy; Maci and Taylor plan a romantic date to work on their marriage; Mackenzie's father asks to take Jaxie to Oklahoma for the summer; Catelynn and Tyler welcome their fourth and final child.

Airs November 23, 2021

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I forgot this mess was on tonight so I missed the 1st 15 min.

Does Jaxie really need to go away for the whole summer ? Can't she just go for a week or so ? I think she needs more structure and routine, and MacKenzie said her Dad wont make Jaxie do any school work or reading. Seems like they are trying to avoid other problems with Jaxie and her brothers.

Amber, Amber, Amber. So oblivious to how the real world works. She has literally nothing to do with the physical or emotional care/work/upbringing of not one but two children. Nothing. What was her 547th excuse today, that she had a black eye so she couldn't see Leah ? What ? Someone hit her ? Matt or one of her many other losers ? 

Maci must be a joy to be married to. They've been married 5 whole years  ! Hubs and I have been married 21 years. Newsflash  ! Sometimes marriage can be rough. Maybe Maci and "T" should not drink when having these soul searching conversations. 

Nova was super cute tonight.

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I thought it was odd that no one seemed to give any consideration to how Mackenzie's 2 boys would feel about only Jaxie getting a special vacation with Grandpa. Like no big deal, obviously she is the favorite. 

Also Mackenzie should buckle her seat belt for a bumpy ride with Jaxie at school next year. They were told the child needs structure and decided to send her on a vacation with Grandpa who they predict will feed her junk food and allow her to blow off her homework. Such a fail. 

And wow Maci just telegraphing that she wants a divorce. Awful. I actually feel bad for Taylor, he seems like a nice guy.

Edited by Blueboxes
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2 hours ago, Chris Knight said:

Nova was super cute tonight.

"I'm proud of you."  I could have died. She was so precious tonight on that facetime with her parents and the new baby.  I liked C&T tonight.  The baby was so pretty and they were so happy.

Good Lord, Maci didn't have a fuck to give.  That was one effed up 'date night'.  She seriously wasn't even trying not to insult Taylor at every turn. He looked mortified that she was acting like that on camera no less. She's just so totally self-involved. I can't stand her.

There were times in that psych session that Amber just closed her eyes and smiled as the doctor explained her 'mental illnesses'.  For the record, Borderline Personality Disorder is a) not a mental illness, and b) a really really awful disorder to have to deal with for anyone around the person who has it. Sure they have abandonment issues but they are also like relating to an irrational whirlwind of self involvement and drama. Amber really does think that having an official declaration of her mental problems is all that is needed to get on the right track with Leah. All it really does is confirm that it's not you it's them and you can decide for yourself if you want to spend your life in a close relationship with someone so toxic to be around. Leah has to make that decision, it's not up to Amber to demand it of her.

Mackenzie acts like a seven year old all the time. She screeches and shouts and baby talks and acts so juvenile I'm embarrassed for her. So her daughter needs to do some serious schoolwork to avoid being held back in second grade and Mac thinks it's a splendid idea to send her to spend the whole summer with a grandpa won't make her do anything and will indulge her endlessly. Mac should not have children. It's just true. She is too juvenile to raise kids, her decision making and parenting is just barely functional.

Ryder practicing in her room to be a flower girl was just too cute. She is such a confident little girl.

Season Finale. Thank goodness.

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Personality disorders are a group of mental illnesses. Per the Cleveland Clinic:

Borderline personality disorder (BPD) is a mental illness. It usually appears during adolescence or early adulthood. People with BPD have extreme mood swings, unstable relationships and trouble controlling their emotions. They have a higher risk of suicide and self-destructive behavior. Symptoms often lessen over time, and counseling and medication can help.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9762-borderline-personality-disorder-bpd

*I am also a mental health professional.  Mental illnesses are not something people choose, anymore than they choose physical illnesses, even Amber. BPD can be quite serious and sufferers can be eligible for disability. Yes, they can be extremely difficult to be around, but they didn't choose this. 

Edited by Cinnabon
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I think even if Amber did not have one mental illness, she would still be a horrible human being. I loathe her!

Taylor needs to beat that ginger life suck to the punch and file for divorce.

I would love to see MTV fire Mac's whole brain damaged family. Better yet, just pull the plug on the whole damn series.

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8 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Good Lord, Maci didn't have a fuck to give.  That was one effed up 'date night'.  She seriously wasn't even trying not to insult Taylor at every turn. He looked mortified that she was acting like that on camera no less. She's just so totally self-involved. I can't stand her

I read this thread before I watched the episode.  OMG!  That date night was super sad!  Maci cannot express affection toward her husband.  He said he loved her and she said she liked him.  I get it.  She likes him and feels he is a great companion.  But he was trying to be romantic!  She was so oblivious!  I kind of feel bad for Taylor.  He is trying and she is so closed off.  If the first five years are this hard for her, she has to deal with how she will get through the rest of her married years.  

 

 

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11 hours ago, Chris Knight said:

Does Jaxie really need to go away for the whole summer ? Can't she just go for a week or so ? I think she needs more structure and routine, and MacKenzie said her Dad wont make Jaxie do any school work or reading. Seems like they are trying to avoid other problems with Jaxie and her brothers.

I thought Mac's face lit up like Christmas morning when her dad asked to take Jaxie for the summer. She tamped it down but she could barely contain her relief at having someone else deal with at least one of her kids.  Jaxie however didn't even bother to contain her joy; it's actually the first time I've ever seen that kid look happy.   And it's not like she was really ever going to get any structure or routine at home anyway.    Hopefully Mac will agree to have her repeat the first grade otherwise this child is as screwed as her little brother.  

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14 hours ago, Blueboxes said:

I thought it was odd that no one seemed to give any consideration to how Mackenzie's 2 boys would feel about only Jaxie getting a special vacation with Grandpa. Like no big deal, obviously she is the favorite. 

Also Mackenzie should buckle her seat belt for a bumpy ride with Jaxie at school next year. They were told the child needs structure and decided to send her on a vacation with Grandpa who they predict will feed her junk food and allow her to blow off her homework. Such a fail. 

And wow Maci just telegraphing that she wants a divorce. Awful. I actually feel bad for Taylor, he seems like a nice guy.

Yes...to everything you said. Looked to me like Mac and Josh were just looking to get rid of a kid for the summer. How about sending her home with Grandpa for two weeks and then she comes home for structure and getting prepared for school. Nope...two lazy parents that don't have a clue how to parent. 

Maci's ambivalence about her marriage was heartbreaking for Taylor. I really felt horrible for him. Maci nagged him relentlessly when she was pregnant with Maverick for him to propose and marry her now she's bored and will barely even kiss him or hold his hand? Wow...she was so cold and sarcastic...even after Taylor said he can't imagine his life if he hadn't ever met her and had children with her. I hope this was just scripted episode with them because if it wasn't I think it's devastating for Taylor.

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1 hour ago, SilverLake0315 said:

I couldn't tell you the last time I was THIS genuinely shocked 😦

WTF??? Really? After she scoffed at Taylor's affection and was dismissive and sarcastic to him while they were having a "date overnight"? 

Also...for someone with PCOS she seems to be able to get pregnant easily. 

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Personality disorders are not the same kind of 'mental illness' as say schizophrenia or biipolar. If you have someone coming into your office with such a disorder and they want treatment of course you would do what you can to help them. But walking around in the world if someone had BPD it's like someone having antisocial personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder - you would take stock and probably not want to be around them too much because of the problems they are going to cause you as they stomp through life making others miserable.  It's just different. And you can treat them but personality disorders by their nature are not very amenable to treatment.

So Amber can declare she has all kinds of personality disorders but that just makes me understand why she's a self absorbed life suck it only would make me take a defensive stand against being pulled into her orbit and get away from her.

And I say that as a social worker who just lost a dear boy to the mental illness of paranoid schizophrenia.  He was handsome, smart, well educated, kind, and generous and his illness made it impossible for him to function properly in the world to a degree that he finally just killed himself. That is an illness

Sorry. Still a little raw.

Maci is having more kids with Taylor. Poor Taylor.

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12 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Personality disorders are a group of mental illnesses. Per the Cleveland Clinic:

Borderline personality disorder (BPD) is a mental illness. It usually appears during adolescence or early adulthood. People with BPD have extreme mood swings, unstable relationships and trouble controlling their emotions. They have a higher risk of suicide and self-destructive behavior. Symptoms often lessen over time, and counseling and medication can help.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9762-borderline-personality-disorder-bpd

*I am also a mental health professional.  Mental illnesses are not something people choose, anymore than they choose physical illnesses, even Amber. BPD can be quite serious and sufferers can be eligible for disability. Yes, they can be extremely difficult to be around, but they didn't choose this. 

Amber seems to excuse her behaviors due to her  mental illnesses. Having grown up with a mother that was bipolar with extremes on both the depressive and manic sides, needless to say, life with her was chaotic, frenzied and full of anguish. I don't doubt Amber's illnesses are real. However, she needs to take ownership of the things that she does that have been hurtful to Leah. Leah is too young to understand her mother's illnesses and all that it entails...in Leah's eyes she just sees her mother saying and doing things that embarrass her or hurt her and Kristina. She can't forgive that and it is going to take a long time to get over it. Amber needs to understand that and work as hard as she can to make things right. Stop using her issues as an excuse and have some patience...it's not going to be easy...and it shouldn't be. Trust was broken and Amber sought drugs and multiple boyfriends instead of being an active mom to her. 

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16 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

"I'm proud of you." [Nova]   I could have died. She was so precious tonight on that facetime with her parents and the new baby.  I liked C&T tonight.  The baby was so pretty and they were so happy.

I liked all of that story this episode too.  Such a nice contrast to their 16&Pregnant episode with all the screaming April and Butch and the heartbreak of placing their baby.  I've always rooted for those two and it's just nice to see them happy with healthy happy kids.  

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Oh Maci. Now we have a new storyline fir a few more seasons. Twins on top of that!!!

Amber gets away with everything because of her illness!

My daughter is Bi Polar and has had terrible ups and downs but with proper meds and a good doctor she manages quite well. She works hard, is self supporting and leads a fairly normal life.   I give her so much credit.   She is surely NO AMBER!

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2 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

Amber seems to excuse her behaviors due to her  mental illnesses. Having grown up with a mother that was bipolar with extremes on both the depressive and manic sides, needless to say, life with her was chaotic, frenzied and full of anguish. I don't doubt Amber's illnesses are real. However, she needs to take ownership of the things that she does that have been hurtful to Leah. Leah is too young to understand her mother's illnesses and all that it entails...in Leah's eyes she just sees her mother saying and doing things that embarrass her or hurt her and Kristina. She can't forgive that and it is going to take a long time to get over it. Amber needs to understand that and work as hard as she can to make things right. Stop using her issues as an excuse and have some patience...it's not going to be easy...and it shouldn't be. Trust was broken and Amber sought drugs and multiple boyfriends instead of being an active mom to her. 

For me, she never puts in the work. She just says her behavior is because of xyz and that's how it is and deal with it and never comes across as sorry for anything because it's just because of xyz. I truly believe without all of her mental disorders she would still be a hideous person.

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Even though I was busy at work today, I took the time to google Maci. I dont see this twin story anywhere. Is it true ?

And yes, I am ashamed that I took the time to do this.

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3 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Personality disorders are not the same kind of 'mental illness' as say schizophrenia or biipolar. If you have someone coming into your office with such a disorder and they want treatment of course you would do what you can to help them. But walking around in the world if someone had BPD it's like someone having antisocial personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder - you would take stock and probably not want to be around them too much because of the problems they are going to cause you as they stomp through life making others miserable.  It's just different. And you can treat them but personality disorders by their nature are not very amenable to treatment.

So Amber can declare she has all kinds of personality disorders but that just makes me understand why she's a self absorbed life suck it only would make me take a defensive stand against being pulled into her orbit and get away from her.

And I say that as a social worker who just lost a dear boy to the mental illness of paranoid schizophrenia.  He was handsome, smart, well educated, kind, and generous and his illness made it impossible for him to function properly in the world to a degree that he finally just killed himself. That is an illness

Sorry. Still a little raw.

Maci is having more kids with Taylor. Poor Taylor.

Personally disorders ARE illnesses like any other. Yes, those with personality disorders can be incredibly toxic and difficult to deal with. And very hard for professionals to treat.  As the link I listed above clearly explains. 🤷‍♀️ Are you licensed as a social worker? Because patients with personality disorders don’t choose their illnesses any more than schizophrenics do.

Edited by Cinnabon
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6 hours ago, Cosmocrush said:

I liked all of that story this episode too.  Such a nice contrast to their 16&Pregnant episode with all the screaming April and Butch and the heartbreak of placing their baby.  I've always rooted for those two and it's just nice to see them happy with healthy happy kids.  

Nova needs speech therapy..she doesn't pronounce her "R's" I hope they get her the help that she needs to correct this before she gets too much older.

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A friendly reminder that the #1 rule here at Primetimer is “Be Civil”. Disagreement and lively discussion is fine, belittling others for their opinions is not. Also remember this is a tv discussion site, not a place for research regarding medical diagnosis and treatments- no one is required to prove their opinion one way or another. 

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11 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

Nova needs speech therapy..she doesn't pronounce her "R's" I hope they get her the help that she needs to correct this before she gets too much older.

I don't know if it has changed but when I was a kid and couldn't pronounce my "R's", school started speech therapy in the second grade. 

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When I was four my speech was so bad that when the dog next door followed me home because I petted it (it was an abused dog and we were able to keep it, thank goodness) my family asked me its name. I said 'Big Shot' but they all thought i said 'Rickshaw' so they called him that. I was twelve before I found out his name wasn't actually Rickshaw. My pronunciation improved over time.

Isn't Nova about six at this point in the show?  Speech therapy might be something they should look into but perhaps they are taking a wait and see approach. Also, she is missing her two front teeth from what I could see so that may be exaggerating her lisp temporarily also. 

She sure was a great big sister, explaining to Vaeda about how she was now a big sister too, etc. I was really impressed with Nova this episode. She is a very engaging little girl.

Edited by Andyourlittledog2 · Reason: extra words don't help.
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4 hours ago, Evie said:

I don't know if it has changed but when I was a kid and couldn't pronounce my "R's", school started speech therapy in the second grade. 

My son had speech therapy in kindegarten. It lasted for about six months and he was good to go. Who knows where they live if they even have speech therapy available within the school system...if not, then should hire a private therapist...skip getting another sleeve tattoo or another car and help your kid.

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6 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

My son had speech therapy in kindegarten. It lasted for about six months and he was good to go. Who knows where they live if they even have speech therapy available within the school system...if not, then should hire a private therapist...skip getting another sleeve tattoo or another car and help your kid.

She should qualify for services through school. 

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I remember when I was young. Maybe four or five. I said ‘poon’.  

One day my friends brother was home and he called me over to the desk he was sitting at and explained it was ‘spoon’.   A couple of times he said it and had me say it!

I practiced all day and never ‘poon’ again!

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On 11/24/2021 at 6:27 PM, toodywoody said:

For me, she never puts in the work. She just says her behavior is because of xyz and that's how it is and deal with it and never comes across as sorry for anything because it's just because of xyz. I truly believe without all of her mental disorders she would still be a hideous person.

ITA. Amber has real and serious mental illnesses and that sucks, but... she's also just a horrible person. I believe that her assholeish tendencies are exacerbated by her mental illnesses, but... she's still an asshole. Lots of people dealing with mental illness(es) are kindhearted, sweet, compassionate, empathetic people. Amber is none of those things and she seems to want to use her diagnoses as a "Get Out of Jail Free" card that means she never has to really take responsibility for her behavior/choices. She feels like everyone, including her kids, needs to "understand" that she's mentally ill and, therefore, it's unfair and unkind to judge her for anything she does or even to feel bad because of her actions.

She abandoned Leah emotionally and practically and physically, but she wants Gary/her psychiatrist/Leah's potential therapist to "explain" to Leah that Leah shouldn't feel bad about that or blame Amber because it's "not Amber's fault" because she's mentally ill. It doesn't even occur to her, at all, that maybe she should think/care about Leah's feelings. Like, that's not even a blip on her radar. The best she can muster is, "I get why Leah feels bad, but I don't think she understands why I'm such a shitty mom. Someone needs to explain that to her so she'll stop hassling me." She thinks that if Leah "understood" her mental illnesses, she'd get that she should perform a close relationship on Amber's terms and stop feeling bad because Amber is so self-involved and malicious. So when Leah saw a video of Amber maligning the woman who takes care of her every day while Amber wallows in her mental illnesses and focuses on her bfs, Leah would feel like she had to defend and protect Poor Amber and call Kristina a homewrecking slut who sabotaged her relationship with her "real mom," etc., etc. Amber would love that. She'd be happier if Leah were a troubled teen, acting out and giving Gary and Kristina hell because she blamed them for hurting Poor Amber. Deep down (well, actually, not that deep down, just below the surface level), Amber doesn't give a fuck about anyone else, including her kids. But she wants that to be ok because- SHE'S MENTALLY ILL!!!

If she deserves a pass for all the horrible shit she does because of her mental illnesses, don't OriginalRecipe!Matt, nuMatt, and all of the other people who have allegedly done her wrong deserve the same consideration? Or does she win the Blameless Olympics because she's the most mentally ill? Gary arguably has some kind of emotional issues that led him to being in an abusive relationship with Amber, so why does he have to put up with all of her bullshit on top of taking 100% responsibility for Leah, along with all of the other stuff he has to do (while Amber has no responsibilities at all)? Kristina probably has emotional issues; Leah certainly has emotional issues, but none of that matters in comparison to Poor Amber, the World's Most Important Mental Patient, who makes 6 figures self-medicating, lounging on her bed/couch and spewing vitriol at anyone she thinks isn't being sufficiently accommodating to her.

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I think most peoples beef with Amber regarding her mental illness is that she acts like everybody BUT her needs to work on it.  I also think that people, me included, while recognizing that BPD, etc. are real, also know that way too often patients use them as an excuse to kick their feet up and let the illness run rampant. 

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20 hours ago, TheRealT said:

ITA. Amber has real and serious mental illnesses and that sucks, but... she's also just a horrible person. I believe that her assholeish tendencies are exacerbated by her mental illnesses, but... she's still an asshole. Lots of people dealing with mental illness(es) are kindhearted, sweet, compassionate, empathetic people. Amber is none of those things and she seems to want to use her diagnoses as a "Get Out of Jail Free" card that means she never has to really take responsibility for her behavior/choices. She feels like everyone, including her kids, needs to "understand" that she's mentally ill and, therefore, it's unfair and unkind to judge her for anything she does or even to feel bad because of her actions.

She abandoned Leah emotionally and practically and physically, but she wants Gary/her psychiatrist/Leah's potential therapist to "explain" to Leah that Leah shouldn't feel bad about that or blame Amber because it's "not Amber's fault" because she's mentally ill. It doesn't even occur to her, at all, that maybe she should think/care about Leah's feelings. Like, that's not even a blip on her radar. The best she can muster is, "I get why Leah feels bad, but I don't think she understands why I'm such a shitty mom. Someone needs to explain that to her so she'll stop hassling me." She thinks that if Leah "understood" her mental illnesses, she'd get that she should perform a close relationship on Amber's terms and stop feeling bad because Amber is so self-involved and malicious. So when Leah saw a video of Amber maligning the woman who takes care of her every day while Amber wallows in her mental illnesses and focuses on her bfs, Leah would feel like she had to defend and protect Poor Amber and call Kristina a homewrecking slut who sabotaged her relationship with her "real mom," etc., etc. Amber would love that. She'd be happier if Leah were a troubled teen, acting out and giving Gary and Kristina hell because she blamed them for hurting Poor Amber. Deep down (well, actually, not that deep down, just below the surface level), Amber doesn't give a fuck about anyone else, including her kids. But she wants that to be ok because- SHE'S MENTALLY ILL!!!

If she deserves a pass for all the horrible shit she does because of her mental illnesses, don't OriginalRecipe!Matt, nuMatt, and all of the other people who have allegedly done her wrong deserve the same consideration? Or does she win the Blameless Olympics because she's the most mentally ill? Gary arguably has some kind of emotional issues that led him to being in an abusive relationship with Amber, so why does he have to put up with all of her bullshit on top of taking 100% responsibility for Leah, along with all of the other stuff he has to do (while Amber has no responsibilities at all)? Kristina probably has emotional issues; Leah certainly has emotional issues, but none of that matters in comparison to Poor Amber, the World's Most Important Mental Patient, who makes 6 figures self-medicating, lounging on her bed/couch and spewing vitriol at anyone she thinks isn't being sufficiently accommodating to her.

Nobody could have said or explained it better!  Bravo!!!!  

Many people deal with mental illness every single day.    Amber takes advantage of hers.

Leah doesn't trust Amber.  Not should she.

Gary should get himself and his family off that show.  He's hypnotized by the money.

Looks like Amber is going after Gary at the reunion per coming attractions.  Sigh.

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18 hours ago, eskimo said:

I think most peoples beef with Amber regarding her mental illness is that she acts like everybody BUT her needs to work on it.  I also think that people, me included, while recognizing that BPD, etc. are real, also know that way too often patients use them as an excuse to kick y ahetheir feet up and let the illness run rampant. 

Hopefully, she is seeing an professional, experienced, ethical mental health provider and not a biased charlatan who thinks some diagnoses are more valid than others. But it’s Amber so i doubt it. She probably picked hers specifically because they don’t take it seriously and let her get away without doing the work. 

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I think Ambers therapist loves the big checks he is getting from Amber!  His celebrity patient!

I think he agrees with anything Amber says.  He's all hers!  MOO

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That Maci stuff was confusing. I always thought she and Taylor were a good match. It almost sounded like she was saying she regretted having their kids. I guess they need a story line. I'd rather watch her clean her house than have a fake, near break up.

If Mack could have given more of her kids away she would have!

Amber's therapist was like. "she's not as terrible as she used to be, (shrug)".

Edited by Soobs
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On 12/1/2021 at 1:30 AM, Soobs said:

That Maci stuff was confusing. I always thought she and Taylor were a good match. It almost sounded like she was saying she regretted having their kids. I guess they need a story line. I'd rather watch her clean her house than have a fake, near break up.

I remember awhile ago ppl were saying they could see Taylor & Maci eventually breaking up, if only to not have to parent full-time and be able to party when the kids were with the other parent.  Maybe they were right!!!!

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