S01.E03: A Place of Safety

[paulvdb]

Quote

Moiraine and Lan find help in an unexpected – and unwanted – quarter, as the separated villagers try to find their way back to each other, or at least to refuge. But they all soon learn how far the Dark One’s reach extends, and how few they can trust on the road.

Premiere date: November 19, 2021

[Jack Shaftoe]

The dialogue in this episode was often so bad it brought back memories of the atrocious dialogue of the recent Foundation adaptation. Mat and Rand's misadventures felt more like a parody than a dangerous adventure. The rest of the characters did very little, Moiraine got stupidly lucky that her enemies decided to give her a break for an episode and she randomly came across other Aes Sedai. Nynaeve killing a trolloc with his sword and apparently not even getting a scratch in the process was a bit too much. I had hopes after episode two (pilots are often really clunky) but they took quite a hit.

[Zonk]

Still liked it, but not as good as the first two episodes. Also not that much happened, really.

Were we supposed to know the guy in the cage at the end? They kinda framed it like we should. I'm bad with faces.

Is it going to turn out, that they are all the dragon together? I have never read the books or heard anything about them other than the name (until recently I thought they were scifi), but it seems like something fanatasy authors would do. And they do all seem to have powers.

Somebody in the episode 1 thread told me somebody would be revealed to be queer by this episode. If they meant Rand's "Yeah if I wanted a man I could do better", yeah, that's not any indication of queerness. The modern aquivalent would be "Yeah, if I was gay I could do better".

1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

The dialogue in this episode was often so bad it brought back memories of the atrocious dialogue of the recent Foundation adaptation.

Ugh, don't remind me. That season finale broke me. And the dialogue wasn't even the problem.

1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Mat and Rand's misadventures felt more like a parody than a dangerous adventure.

At least I can fanwank it in a way, that those two are just some small town hicks who have no idea how the world works and she was trying to keep them there so played it like she was super charmed by their antics.

1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Moiraine got stupidly lucky that her enemies decided to give her a break for an episode and she randomly came across other Aes Sedai.

Speaking off, where are those trololos? They watched our heros walk into the death-city and then just decided to go home?

Edited November 19, 2021 by Zonk

[quarks]

Weakest episode of the three so far, I thought, partly because of the often clunky dialogue (I mean, the dialogue hasn't always been great so far, but this episode was unusually clunky), but mostly because of the pacing. I mean, I get that things have been moving quickly, and the characters all needed to take a break, but it also felt like Rand and Mat were unnecessarily wasting time in this muddy village. Especially after the Evil Bartender told Rand that he'd already cut more than enough wood. You're supposedly trying to meet back up with Egwene, Rand. 

And, Mat? I don't mean to sound critical, but this whole "I gotta get back to my sisters" - uh, you agreed to leave them in the first place. I realize it's not your fault that the first episode didn't linger on why, but that why still presumably applies now.

Also, I love Nynaeve, and her interactions with Lan, but I kinda have to assume that she should have picked up more injuries during that entire Trolloc encounter. And Lan, the real question is not "how did she track you," because, hi, there were a lot of you traveling on horses, but "how did she cross the river after Moraine destroyed the ferry?" 

 

13 minutes ago, Zonk said:

Somebody in the episode 1 thread told me somebody would be revealed to be queer by this episode. If they meant Rand's "Yeah if I wanted a man I could do better", yeah, that's not any indication of queerness. The modern aquivalent would be "Yeah, if I was gay I could do better".

 

This was me, but this wasn't the moment I meant. (Explaining would cross into Book Talk.) I didn't think the "if I wanted a man" comment was queer in the slightest - if anything, it seemed to be a confirmation that Rand is straight, not that we needed that after all of the Rand/Egwene stuff.

Although maybe the show wanted to confirm that Rand isn't bisexual.

I do completely agree that as far as explicit onscreen queerness is concerned this show could be doing more, even just in this episode. Like, they could have shown a couple of men cuddling in the tavern, or exchanging quick kisses, or something, especially since everyone was apparently at least slightly drunk, so shouldn't have felt any major public inhibitions.  And if they felt that didn't fit the overall rough, unfriendly atmosphere at the tavern, well, they had the scenes at the wagons, which could have included a couple of queer couples in the background. 

[Zonk]

10 minutes ago, quarks said:

This was me, but this wasn't the moment I meant. (Explaining would cross into Book Talk.) I didn't think the "if I wanted a man" comment was queer in the slightest

So, nobody was confirmed to be queer in the first three episodes, afterall, if you'd have to cross into book talk to explain.

I know a few people protested in the first episode thread, but I doubt we will get queer people in the main cast, other than maybe in-name-only-queers. Other than that, best we can hope for is side characters, in these kinds of shows.

 

[supposebly]

Ok, I don't know who the guy in the cage is, should I?

The landscape is gorgeous, the dialogue is clunky and overall , everyone feels like from the encyclopedia of fantasy characters.

Nynaeve is alive! I actually don't like her.

Mad follower who dies, shady character who helps out unexpectedly.

Still intrigued by the wolves.

Edited November 20, 2021 by supposebly

[SueB]

2 hours ago, supposebly said:

Ok, I don't know who the guy in the cage is, should I?

The one Mat buried was an Aiel - someone Thom said was a warrior race. 
 

The last dude was the guy we saw in the first episode (but with his hair down).  And according to the Red AES Sedei he claims to be ‘The Dragon Reborn’.  But Moraine said one of the four Taverne from the Two Rivers is the Dragon Reborn.  Dragon Reborn = Chosen One trope. 
 

Well I LIKED the dialogue.  Yes, it’s overwrought fantasy stuff at times but it had a realism to it.  I liked Nynaeve actually attacking Lan with the sword. She was all kinds of sassy.  Mat has a potty mouth.  I had to turn on closed captioning to get the reference to someone’s wife.  I liked Rand admitting he didn’t know shite.  Seemed honest. 
 

I really like Thom Merrill, the gleeman. I like his gravelly voice and the way he’s already taught Mat a thing or two.  The song was cool IMO.  It’s hard to weave that stuff in and make it sound natural. 
 

im seriously disappointed Dana turned into a Darkfriend.  She seemed like a friendly down-to-earth type who was being kind to the nicest looking young lads who had come into her bar.  So when she turned out to be the bad guy, I was bummed.  Honestly, given her standard clientele, I bought a normal interest in the boys. 
 

But nope.  We got all sorts of plot goodies:

1) The Darkfriends know their are 5 people and knows their names.  How exactly does that get communicated?  Dreams?  
2) Rand was able to crack open the ‘ironwood’ door when he was desperate.  Seemed super human to me. 
3) She called an ‘eyeless one’ aka a Fade.  Closed capturing is great for all these names that fly about.  Pretty damn desperate to me.  Those things will hand her over to the Trollocs for a snack.  Again, how does communication work?
 

I LOVE Nynaeve and Lan. There’s some snap, crackle, pop going on. 
 

Perrin, you fool. There are wolves following you and you want to leave Egwene behind?   Bad call.  Good thing she didn’t listen.  
 

All in all, a good plot-moving episode IMO.  Now we and Rand/Mat know that they are targeted by the Darkfriends by name.  So we know Morraine is telling the truth (from a certain point of view).  Going home is not an option.

I have not much to say about the Tinkers except Aram is mighty fine looking.  

ETA: Nynaeve is a Bad Ass.  I’m really impressed with her. There was a lot of luck with that troll but she is a VERY determined individual. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by SueB

[ribboninthesky1]

I didn't find the dialogue that clunky in this one, likely for two reasons: Moiraine was unconscious most of the episode and the band of four were separated.  I find Perrin the most likable of the baby Dragons, which is terrible given that he (accidentally) killed his wife. And his connection to the wolves is fascinating.  Egwene is much more tolerable with Perrin vs Rand.

The Darkfriend was interesting, as she really seemed to believe the Dark One would bring good to the land. I too wondered how you "call" someone within this world.  Pigeons? Maybe through dreams. 

I tuned out during the gleeman singing and his scenes with Mat.  I did chuckle that Mat was robbed.  Guess it's no fun when you're the mark, and not the thief.  

Glad that Nynaeve is alive, however improbable it was.  

I'll probably wait until the remaining episodes are available, and binge the rest of the season.  I'm not invested enough to watch weekly.  The vistas are gorgeous and worth seeing in HD.  

[Danny Franks]

Nynaeve is the best, and Zoe Robins is really great in this role, so far. Lan was right to be impressed by her.

Perrin's dream was awful. Loved the burning eyes at the window, followed by that face. Not sure what to make of the wolves eating Laila, but it was gruesome.

The wolves were definitely shepherding them to the wagon tracks. They stopped chasing as soon as they got close, just hung back and watched.

I felt like this episode did some work in deepening the relationship between Rand and Egwene, even without them being on screen together. Their clear concern for one another, both making their decisions based on what they thought the other would do.

And we saw a bit more of Rand's personality, taking the piss out of Mat. And his grim reaction to that stew being made was funny.

Thom was cool. Loved his outfit and his sardonic personality. And that song was really good. And he knows stuff about Aiel. Very cool.

And the darkfriend reveal was really effective. A nice person who seems to be charming and funny, and who even expresses regret over what she has to do. But like she said, the Wheel hasn't given her many choices.

[Quark]

I'm enjoying this show so far. The best thing is easily the scenery; it's absolutely beautiful.

The acting by the young people is pretty mediocre so far.

[staphdude]

Three episodes in and I am reminded of how much the Aes Sedai annoy me. Hopefully they don’t change how the relationship between them and the Dragon evolves.

 

 

[Haleth]

Ok. A couple things. Perrin has a connection to the wolves. Those deep scratches on his legs, are those from the trolleks?  Is that why the wolves are attracted to him?

Dana said something about 5 people. Is there a 5th that they don’t know about yet?

Dang it. I liked Dana.

Glad to see Ninaeva return since we won’t get sassy Dana. Hopefully snarky Thom will be around a while. 

On 11/19/2021 at 11:16 AM, Zonk said:

Is it going to turn out, that they are all the dragon together?

I’m starting to suspect this. 

[paigow]

The last person that wanted to "Break the Wheel" got stabbed by her boyfriend / nephew.... 

Surprised that the gleeman was NOT Ed Sheeran

Edited November 21, 2021 by paigow

[paigow]

On 11/19/2021 at 12:18 PM, Zonk said:

Other than that, best we can hope for is side characters, in these kinds of shows.

Betting that some of those RED Sisters are gay... And a few of those Whitecloaks

[paigow]

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

Dana said something about 5 people. Is there a 5th that they don’t know about yet?

The dude captured by the Red Sisters makes 5.

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, paigow said:

The dude captured by the Red Sisters makes 5.

Or in the alternative, Nynaeve could be the fifth. Or the fifth could be some as yet-undiscovered person. (I say with no prior knowledge of what's going on.)

15 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I felt like this episode did some work in deepening the relationship between Rand and Egwene, even without them being on screen together. Their clear concern for one another, both making their decisions based on what they thought the other would do.

It is a little sad to me that Egwene does not know Rand well enough to anticipate, as Perrin did, that there is no way Rand would go back to their village while thinking that she would be going east.

Also, is it me or is trying to go back to the village particularly dumb when a) doing so would mean risking crossing paths with the Trolloc pursuers b)  there's a good chance the Trollocs have killed their family and c) even assuming the family is alive and well, the Trollocs are going to pursue them and returning to the village would just put their family at risk.?

On 11/19/2021 at 10:58 AM, quarks said:

Also, I love Nynaeve, and her interactions with Lan, but I kinda have to assume that she should have picked up more injuries during that entire Trolloc encounter. And Lan, the real question is not "how did she track you," because, hi, there were a lot of you traveling on horses, but "how did she cross the river after Moraine destroyed the ferry?" 

Moraine said explicitly that there were other crossings to the river and so Our Heroes were not yet safe from the Trollocs. Also, Nynaeve could have swam across the river, taken a boat or done a number of other things at the crossing Our Heroes used. (She would have had to find/steal a horse once on the other side).

My question is more logistics. Even granted that Nynaeve was guided to where to find two of them by a person, magic or whatever, it seems a stretch that she could have caught up with Our Heroes when they had what seemingly would have been a sizeable headstart and were going at bat-out-of-hell speeds to try to stay ahead of the Trollocs. 

 

[Danny Franks]

38 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It is a little sad to me that Egwene does not know Rand well enough to anticipate, as Perrin did, that there is no way Rand would go back to their village while thinking that she would be going east.

Also, is it me or is trying to go back to the village particularly dumb when a) doing so would mean risking crossing paths with the Trolloc pursuers b)  there's a good chance the Trollocs have killed their family and c) even assuming the family is alive and well, the Trollocs are going to pursue them and returning to the village would just put their family at risk.?

I thought Egwene was more doubtful of what Rand would do than she was unable to anticipate it. Like, if this had happened a week ago, before she'd told him she planned to become Nynaeve's apprentice, she'd have been happier to predict what he'd do.

It definitely doesn't seem smart to try to go home, after being told that they're the ones the Trollocs want, but I get that sentiment - this isn't a fun adventure and if you've never left home before then it's natural to want to go back.

11 hours ago, Haleth said:

Ok. A couple things. Perrin has a connection to the wolves. Those deep scratches on his legs, are those from the trolleks?  Is that why the wolves are attracted to him?

He definitely got that wound fighting the trollocs in the forge. I don't know whether there's any link between that wound and the wolves, other than them being able to smell the blood and coming over to taste/clean the wound.

I do think Egwene was right, though - the wolves aren't a threat, and seem to be trying to help them in some fashion.

[Arutha2321]

On 11/19/2021 at 6:18 PM, Zonk said:

So, nobody was confirmed to be queer in the first three episodes, afterall, if you'd have to cross into book talk to explain.

I took the Mat-Perrin dialogue in the last episode, when Mat was giving him the dagger from his wife, to indicate pretty heavily he had feelings for him. (The way he said "... or the life of someone that I loved", looking at him.)

Though honestly, I couldn't give less of a damn, I'm not watching a fantasy show set in what's very much based on medieval Europe for social commentary.

[staphdude]

6 minutes ago, Arutha2321 said:

I took the Mat-Perrin dialogue in the last episode, when Mat was giving him the dagger from his wife, to indicate pretty heavily he had feelings for him. (The way he said "... or the life of someone that I loved", looking at him.)

Though honestly, I couldn't give less of a damn, I'm not watching a fantasy show set in what's very much based on medieval Europe for social commentary.

 Unlike ASOIAF the relationships have been fleshed out and the end is known. The restrictions on book talk are fairly silly as this series is well established and put to bed. Messing with the story gets  you the last season of GoT or the bloated cinematic version of the Hobbit.

[SueB]

How LUSH the forest.  The green moss was gorgeous.  Someone called it ‘scenery porn’.  Imma gonna steal that phrase mkay?  Cause it’s perfect. 
 

‘If she’s up for it.’  Mat!  Did you just suggest a three-way with Rand and Dana?  Himbo indeed.
 

Also, after watching the stew be made, my appetite was turned off.  
 

I like the Perrin and Egwene scenes.  Shows that Perrin, Mat, Rand, Egwene and likely Layla (sp?) were all close friends before they took off. Like Layla giving Mat a knife independent of Perrin.  They all seem easy with each other.  Very nice.  
 

Thom Merrilin is rapidly becoming a favorite. 

[DearEvette]

So a seemingly quiet episode that actually quite stealthily does a lot.  This episode has some important story beats that, if done well the payoff will be good later on on down the line.

We get our first mention of the Aiel and learn a little bit about them: they are redheads and a fierce warrior race that is feared/considered a threat

We also meet the Tuatha'an -- the tinkers.  Important juxtaposition with the Aiel mentioned because they are a pacifist race but also feared and considered a threat.

the title of the episode is an Easter egg.

Hi Dana!  Bye Dana!  I was super loving her -- her sarcasm and no time for bullshit.  And then we learn she is a Darkfriend.  Shoot!  Her last monologue to Rand and Mat was good in letting us know that the regular people stay being pawns in the high level machinations the Aes Sedai and the evil are playing and have been for years and years.  The mention of the Wheal and the Breaking again make important appearances because the idea of cyclical time and reincarnation is shown to be important to the belief system for the people.  Also how easily they can be conscripted into doing bad things for what they mistakenly feel is for a greater good. 

Nynaeve and Lan.  Their chemistry is everything I could have hoped for.  We also get a little bit more info on the relationship between Warder and Aes Sedai and what it means for them to be bonded.

Also Lan is one damn fine man who has a damn fine profile in addition to his damn fine ass!

Thom Merillin is a really intriguing character.  I loved his interaction with Mat by the body of the slain Aiel.

The look of dawning realization in Mat (and to a lesser extent Rand's) faces as Dana was talking -- yeah, so Moiraine wasn't just making shit up Mat!

OOOh, the faux Dragon reborn and his fancy tunic woven with dragons on it.  Tsk. Tsk.  I like the casting of the smirky Red Ajah Aes Sedai.  She looks like she should be a Red Sister.

And once again the scenery is gorgeous!  Kudos to their location manager.

Edited November 21, 2021 by DearEvette

[ElizaD]

Thom has a vibe like he stepped out of a Western, but the actor made it work. IMO, Mat is by far the best of the younger actors and seeing him interact with Thom was one of the highlights thus far. Really, the whole interlude in that town was a step above the rest. Mat and Rand got some time to breathe and to show their personalities, Thom is a good take on the mentor, and the barmaid was so well written and acted for a minor role that I wish she'd been cast as Nynaeve instead.

 

[Atlanta]

Where was Thom's gleeman cloak? *sad eyes*

I think I like the actress who played Dana more than Zoe, as ElizaD mentioned.

[Humbugged]

3 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

Where was Thom's gleeman cloak? *sad eyes*

I think I like the actress who played Dana more than Zoe, as ElizaD mentioned.

It was patchwork on the inside

[Chicago Redshirt]

10 hours ago, staphdude said:

 Unlike ASOIAF the relationships have been fleshed out and the end is known. The restrictions on book talk are fairly silly as this series is well established and put to bed. Messing with the story gets  you the last season of GoT or the bloated cinematic version of the Hobbit.

The restrictions on book talk are (presumably) not only for the benefit of viewers like me who are coming into the series with no particular knowledge of what happens in the novels and who want to experience it spoiler-free (or relatively spoiler-free).

They are also there because even though there's a full path laid out for the writers of the TV series, they may choose to diverge from it in major and minor points. My understanding is some of my friends who love the book series absolutely HATED the first episode for some level of divergence, for example.

[staphdude]

43 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The restrictions on book talk are (presumably) not only for the benefit of viewers like me who are coming into the series with no particular knowledge of what happens in the novels and who want to experience it spoiler-free (or relatively spoiler-free).

They are also there because even though there's a full path laid out for the writers of the TV series, they may choose to diverge from it in major and minor points. My understanding is some of my friends who love the book series absolutely HATED the first episode for some level of divergence, for example.

Fair enough but I can’t for the life of me see why the writers would diverge from a fully formed and complete story. The source material is dense and while trimming of the narrative may be warranted diverging from the plot would be lunacy. You don’t delve into this world and the behave like a deranged writer of fanfic.

[silverstream]

The scale of the landscape (for lack of a better way to describe it) on this show is starting to bug me - last episode, they all escaped Shadar Logoth in a forest in three different directions, even though they can't have been particularly far apart given that the shadow dust was expanding fast and they all took the first exit they could find (except maybe Lan and Moraine, who were faster thanks to the horse so did probably cover more ground). Now they walk for what, one day, and they're suddenly all in completely different landscapes. Just how fast were they running away from Shadar Logoth (especially since the only group that actually has a faster mode of transportation is the only one who's seemingly still in the original forest)?!

9 hours ago, ElizaD said:

Thom has a vibe like he stepped out of a Western, but the actor made it work. IMO, Mat is by far the best of the younger actors and seeing him interact with Thom was one of the highlights thus far. Really, the whole interlude in that town was a step above the rest.

The Thom and Matt interactions were a large part of why this has been my favourite episode so far; I'm really enjoying Thom. Kinda sad Dana turned out to be evil and is dead now, the actress did a really good job making her likeable before her face-heel-turn.

Was anybody else reminded of Galaxy Quest during the very first scene when Nynaeve watches the trolloc eat the other, injured trolloc?

[areca]

Let's see.  Primarily due to the actors, Thom Merrillin is my favorite character so far.  Then Perrin. Followed by Nynaeve. Then Mat.

The guy playing Lan can stay for the pretty.

Everyone else can go hop in a trolloc cookpot.

Edited November 22, 2021 by areca

[thuganomics85]

Ah, the old "party gets separated" bit that is also popular in most fantasy stories.  To be fair, it was a decent way to get to know more about these characters and see different sides to them.  Ferrin/Egwene made for an interesting and supportive duo and I got a kick out of the Rand/Mat scenes.  In particular, Rand was way more interesting bouncing off of Mat, instead of just making pitiful eyes at Egwene or whining about everything like he did in the past two episodes.

I actually didn't see the Alanna twist coming, so good on the show for that at least.  Thought she was just going to be a love interest/distraction for Rand, but that wasn't the case!

Thom Merrilin definitely strikes me as a character from the books that is probably very popular.  The actor definitely stood out.

Curious to know more about these other groups like the warrior clan and the traveling one (that includes Maria Doyle Kennedy!  Always a good thing!)

Nynaeve is slowly, but surely becoming the best.  I know Lan would probably disagree.

The scenery really is on point.

Still has some imperfect moments like spotty acting, awkward dialogue, and an over-complicated story at times, but these three episodes at least convinced me to stick around for the rest of the season, so that's pretty much a win.  To be fair, you have to really work hard at making me not get invested in a fantasy show.

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

the traveling one (that includes Maria Doyle Kennedy!

How in the world did I miss her?  Guess a rewatch is in order.

7 hours ago, silverstream said:

The scale of the landscape (for lack of a better way to describe it) on this show is starting to bug me - last episode, they all escaped Shadar Logoth in a forest in three different directions, even though they can't have been particularly far apart given that the shadow dust was expanding fast and they all took the first exit they could find (except maybe Lan and Moraine, who were faster thanks to the horse so did probably cover more ground). Now they walk for what, one day, and they're suddenly all in completely different landscapes. Just how fast were they running away from Shadar Logoth (especially since the only group that actually has a faster mode of transportation is the only one who's seemingly still in the original forest)?!

I thought that was odd too, especially since they all know to travel east.  You'd think their roads would converge at some point.

[Humbugged]

58 minutes ago, Haleth said:

How in the world did I miss her?  Guess a rewatch is in order.

I thought that was odd too, especially since they all know to travel east.  You'd think their roads would converge at some point.

The river splits in two 2 near the city and everybody is still heading east - heading to Book spoilers to post the map

[MissLucas]

Three episodes in I'd say it's easy to get caught up in fantasy trope fatigue - but that would be unfair seeing as the source material itself was one of foundation stones of said tropes. 

Nevertheless I have notes:

It was a good episode for almost all Dragon wannabe with regards to character-building. We got to see Perrin trying to deal with his guilt by becoming over-protective of Egwene. Rand showed some edge and probably super-powers. Mat seems to be the most fleshed out so far, not always likeable but that makes him interesting. Egwene is definitely the one that was left behind by the writing of this episode.

I'd like to know why Perrin is not succumbing to trolloc poison like all others do. Is it just the magical wolf slobber? And if so, what is the reason for his bond with said wolves? 

How exactly did Nynaeve manage to catch up so fast with Lan & Co? She must have returned to the town she's supposed to protect and where plenty of healing jobs were waiting for her. Yet girl manages to get a sweet ride, a bad-ass coat from the Daenerys T. collection and a sword and tracks a party of people who were hell-bent on getting as fast away as possible within a couple of days. And that despite the fact that she has been forced to make a detour over that river and get around the spooky city on top of everything else. Or does Nynaeve have Google Maps and found a short-cut? The trollocs might be stupid but I expected better of the  Nazgul Fade as the brains of the operation.

Five dragons? Okay then, thanks for providing that bit of info Dana. You were an interesting character with a good twist, sadly you were also a Darkfriend.

I like the Gleeman but he's exactly the kind of mentor character who has to die sooner or later, so I try to not like him too much. His interactions with Mat were the best part of the episode. It helps that he's one of the few characters who is not talking in riddles but gives straightforward helpful answers for a change.

[silverstream]

41 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

How exactly did Nynaeve manage to catch up so fast with Lan & Co? She must have returned to the town she's supposed to protect and where plenty of healing jobs were waiting for her. Yet girl manages to get a sweet ride, a bad-ass coat from the Daenerys T. collection and a sword and tracks a party of people who were hell-bent on getting as fast away as possible within a couple of days. And that despite the fact that she has been forced to make a detour over that river and get around the spooky city on top of everything else. Or does Nynaeve have Google Maps and found a short-cut? The trollocs might be stupid but I expected better of the  Nazgul Fade as the brains of the operation.

The more I think about it, the more I think there might have been some sort of minor time skip. The show made it seem like Nynaeve found them almost immediately after they escaped Shadar Logoth (as in, the next day or so), but maybe they've actually been hanging around in the woods for a while, with Moraine to ill to travel. That would have given Nynaeve some time to catch up. And maybe she arranged for a wisdom from a neighbouring town to come to take care of the townspeope (just spitballing here).

Either way, perhaps we'll see another flashback to show how she got there (they did put rather a lot of emphasis on her not telling how she tracked them, though I also think that the herd(?) of trollocs that was following them were probably not subtle/cut a rather large swathe across the countryside).

[rove4]

On 11/19/2021 at 8:58 AM, Jack Shaftoe said:

The dialogue in this episode was often so bad it brought back memories of the atrocious dialogue of the recent Foundation adaptation. Mat and Rand's misadventures felt more like a parody than a dangerous adventure. The rest of the characters did very little, Moiraine got stupidly lucky that her enemies decided to give her a break for an episode and she randomly came across other Aes Sedai. Nynaeve killing a trolloc with his sword and apparently not even getting a scratch in the process was a bit too much. I had hopes after episode two (pilots are often really clunky) but they took quite a hit.

Yeah, I have to say that this show is not making me want to read more of the books. I read the first two and lost interest and I already feel my interest waning for the show.  I'll keep watching just to support the genre but the pacing is clunky, the dialogue is bad at times. the special effects are dodgy, and Nynaeve fighting the trolloc?  Please. 🙄    I wonder if, after seeing the finished product, Rosamund PIke is regretting her involvement in this. 

[MissLucas]

21 minutes ago, rove4 said:

Nynaeve fighting the trolloc?  Please. 🙄  

I kept wondering what it reminded me of - tiny but feisty female in water against magically loaded ogre-like creature. Then I finally realized: Mrs True vs Odium, it probably took me so long because it was just a faint echo. (To be fair, that one is hard to top.)

[DoctorAtomic]

To be fair, in the scene, she hid in 'deep water'. Given the general Trolloc aversion to it, I can buy that she got the drop on it. He also missed stabbing her when she was underwater before she popped up to steal the knife. 9 times out of 10? The Trolloc probably wins. This was the one. I can roll with it enough. 

Mat - 'that's not how roads work.' Do keep up the sass. 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[tennisgurl]

 This seems on the surface like a bit of a filler/place moving episode, where our party who has recently split moves closer to the next big plot point, but if things go the way I think they'll go they are setting up a lot of things that will be very important later. Splitting the party also gave the kids some more time to explore their personalities, we see Rand be a bit more snarky, Mat a bit more reflective, and more of Perrin dealing with what happened to his wife, leading to him being overprotective of Egwene, even as she rightfully pointed out that he's being ridiculous. 

Thom made a great first impression, his song was quite haunting (the in universe music on this show is really strong) and I enjoyed him snarking on Mat and his bad life choices a lot. 

It really sucks that Dana is a Darkfriend, I really liked her, she was likable and funny with a take no crap attitude, but it does nicely set up the threat of Darkfriends. They don't have to be obviously scary dark sorcerer types, they can seem like any nice friendly person you meet going about your day, they can be regular people that you can easily trust and let your guard around until they suddenly reveal themselves. Her last monologue was really good, it showed us that normal people are being recruited into this and that some of them think that they are actually doing the right thing. It also starts setting up the cyclical nature of the universe and how people in this world believe in it, and there are people who are desperate to try and break the cycle, even by doing terrible things.  

The scenery continues to be really impressive. Scenery porn all the way. 

So glad that Nynaeve is back in the action, who has impressively managed to make amazing time catching up with them. She and Lan were really great together, I felt a bit of a spark between them, he seemed rightfully impressed by her.

A wild Maria Doyle Kennedy appears!

Edited November 22, 2021 by tennisgurl

[DoctorAtomic]

I liked how fish out of water they Two Rivers' folk were shown to be in this episode. Mat got his purse snatched on an obvious and clumsy move, and the other two looked terrified when they met the Tinkers. I think many people have been over their heads at times. Then throw in they're literally being hunted down my monsters. 

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, rove4 said:

Yeah, I have to say that this show is not making me want to read more of the books. I read the first two and lost interest and I already feel my interest waning for the show.  I'll keep watching just to support the genre but the pacing is clunky, the dialogue is bad at times. the special effects are dodgy, and Nynaeve fighting the trolloc?  Please. 🙄    I wonder if, after seeing the finished product, Rosamund PIke is regretting her involvement in this. 

Given how much she's posting about it on her social media... I doubt she regrets it. She believes in the project, and I think she's right to.

[Maximum Taco]

Eh, this one was pretty underwhelming. 

- What's the point of that opening scene? We know Nyneave is alive after episode 2. Is it to portray her as a capable badass? Cause I feel like we already did that too. I don't know, I'm a huge hater of "2 weeks/days/hours earlier" when done in this way. It removes all the stakes. We know how it ends, so the scene is pointless. 

- Also Nyneave is smart enough to hide from a Trolloc, but dumb enough to try and kill an obviously seasoned swordsman in a straight on fight? I mean c'mon what is she? Calm and collected or fiery and impulsive? And I know everyone isn't just one thing and can be both, it just seems stupid that she'd be collected enough to outsmart something that definitely wants to kill her, and then would just impulsively try to kill someone who probably isn't that interested in killing her, and even offered to help her, if she'll help him. 

- Rand and Mat; this was the best part of this episode. The tavern was appropriately gritty, they played to their strengths (Rand is strong, but not that charismatic, Mat is charismatic but not anything else.) Thom Merrilin is great, wonderful integration into the group. Dana was fantastic, did not see that heel turn coming. My only complaint is that there's not a lot of exposition going on. Is the Wheel a deity? It kind of feels like it from the way people talk, but also they all seem aware enough that if it's a deity it doesn't care about them at all and worship would not help them. I'd appreciate a little more exposition on the nature of the wheel, based on the opening credits (where it looks like a loom is being operated) it seems like it's a spinning wheel and not like a wagon wheel.

- Perrin and Egwene. OH MY GOD. This was so boring. These two (IMO) are easily the least charismatic of the bunch and watching them try to carry a storyline by themselves is just painful to me. Gimme paint drying or grass growing. 

- Liandrin, ok I'm board with this bad ass bitch and her evil Bette Midler vibes. I will say that it is worrying to me that the side characters (I'm assuming they are side characters) like Liandrin, Thom Merillin, the Children of Light Questioner from last episode and the shifty peddler from episode one are all more charismatic than the majority of our "ta'veren" (Thank you subtitles for that spelling, cause yeah I would not have put that apostrophe there.)

Edited November 22, 2021 by Maximum Taco

[Zonk]

On 11/21/2021 at 4:23 PM, Arutha2321 said:

Though honestly, I couldn't give less of a damn, I'm not watching a fantasy show set in what's very much based on medieval Europe for social commentary.

Nobody wants social commentary, we want representation. That's completely different. While you could have argued that all the people of colour were wrong in a medieval european setting, you can't really argue that with queer people. We've always been here and always will be.

Also this is still a fantasy world. I don't think medieval Europe had actual magic, so there is pretty obviously things the writers changed. ;)

On 11/21/2021 at 4:35 PM, staphdude said:

 Unlike ASOIAF the relationships have been fleshed out and the end is known. The restrictions on book talk are fairly silly as this series is well established and put to bed. Messing with the story gets  you the last season of GoT or the bloated cinematic version of the Hobbit.

It's not about the books being well established, it's about book readers not spoiling it for exclusive watchers.

We ASOIAF book readers could have spoiled Jon Snow being a Targaryen and rightfull heir to the throne, from the first episode on, since it "was well established". But we didn't since we knew it would be huge spoilers (although in the show it didn't end up mattering anyway, since D&D are massive hacks).

12 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Ah, the old "party gets separated" bit that is also popular in most fantasy stories. 

Also in Dungeons and Dragons. But there it might actually lead to a TPK, here we know everybody has plot-armour.

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I kept wondering what it reminded me of - tiny but feisty female in water against magically loaded ogre-like creature. Then I finally realized: Mrs True vs Odium, it probably took me so long because it was just a faint echo. (To be fair, that one is hard to top.)

At least Mrs. True is a super soldier from the future. What combat-training has Nynaeve got?

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

Given how much she's posting about it on her social media... I doubt she regrets it. She believes in the project, and I think she's right to.

There is no way she isn't contractually obligated to make these posts. She might believe in the show, she might not, but her social media posts aren't any indication either way.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Zonk

[Arutha2321]

21 minutes ago, Zonk said:

While you could have argued that all the people of colour were wrong in a medieval european setting, you can't really argue that with queer people. We've always been here and always will be.

Of course, you're right about that. What I was trying to say is that it isn't really a factor for me personally in deciding whether I like a show or not. I liked the implied gay scene well enough, certainly more than the drama between Rand and Egwene. But that's not what I choose to watch this genre for, give me some nice and flashy sword and sorcery, and I'm a happy geezer. ;)

[staphdude]

2 hours ago, Zonk said:

It's not about the books being well established, it's about book readers not spoiling it for exclusive watchers.

We ASOIAF book readers could have spoiled Jon Snow being a Targaryen and rightfull heir to the throne, from the first episode on, since it "was well established". But we didn't since we knew it would be huge spoilers (although in the show it didn't end up mattering anyway, since D&D are massive hacks).

 

What is the time limit on a spoiler? I am happy to leave people to discover the intricacies of the story or big reveals but some fundamental truths don’t seem so controversial. Who is the Dragon/Core long lasting relationships don’t seem like information that would take away from the experience. YMMV

Edited November 23, 2021 by staphdude

[JonasArm]

1 hour ago, staphdude said:

What is the time limit on a spoiler? I am happy to leave people to discover the intricacies of the story or big reveals but some fundamental truths don’t seem so controversial. Who is the Dragon/Core long lasting relationships don’t seem like information that would take away from the experience. YMMV

Any info related to this story but not coming from the show.

[Black Knight]

There is no time limit on spoilers in episode threads. Some people watch a show as soon as it airs. Some people watch a show two or five years later - especially in this era of streaming - and would rather not know what happens, but do like to read along in episode threads as they go. So it will never be okay to talk about something that happened in the third season in an episode thread for the first season.

While you may not consider, for instance, the identity of the Dragon Reborn to be a major spoiler, the fact is the show has chosen to make it a mystery and many people like to theorize as a mystery progresses rather than be told the answer right off the bat. Many people are also spoiler-phobic far beyond major spoilers. The Book to Show thread is available for those who have read the books or do not mind being spoiled. Thanks.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Random thoughts and musings (again, not a book reader):

• I know WoT books have been around, but the show, in parts, seems derivative. I can see lifts from The Hobbit, GoT, Rothfuss books, even Into The Badlands
• A very Cameron-esque fade from the pooling blood to the treetop horizon
• The wolves are definitely helping, but who or what is Toasty Star-Lord?
• Dana was an interesting character. Oh well.
• Rand has pretty red hair, too
• Count me on the side of "more than one/all" are the Dragon

[staphdude]

18 hours ago, Black Knight said:

There is no time limit on spoilers in episode threads. Some people watch a show as soon as it airs. Some people watch a show two or five years later - especially in this era of streaming - and would rather not know what happens, but do like to read along in episode threads as they go. So it will never be okay to talk about something that happened in the third season in an episode thread for the first season.

While you may not consider, for instance, the identity of the Dragon Reborn to be a major spoiler, the fact is the show has chosen to make it a mystery and many people like to theorize as a mystery progresses rather than be told the answer right off the bat. Many people are also spoiler-phobic far beyond major spoilers. The Book to Show thread is available for those who have read the books or do not mind being spoiled. Thanks.

I guess for me it is the equivalent of LotR movie goers getting "spoiled" when the books had been out for decades.

[Danny Franks]

7 minutes ago, staphdude said:

I guess for me it is the equivalent of LotR movie goers getting "spoiled" when the books had been out for decades.

A lot of people going to see those movies would have had no knowledge of the books, so would have been spoiled if people were talking about Aragorn's destiny or who Shelob is. Of my group of university friends, I was the only one who'd read The Lord of the Rings, but they were all excited to see the movies.

[tennisgurl]

On 11/19/2021 at 10:16 AM, Zonk said:

Is it going to turn out, that they are all the dragon together? I have never read the books or heard anything about them other than the name (until recently I thought they were scifi), but it seems like something fanatasy authors would do.

Maybe the real dragon was the friends you made along the way?

[staphdude]

34 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

A lot of people going to see those movies would have had no knowledge of the books, so would have been spoiled if people were talking about Aragorn's destiny or who Shelob is. Of my group of university friends, I was the only one who'd read The Lord of the Rings, but they were all excited to see the movies.

Really I am not looking to spoil anything for people. I just assumed the majority of the audience would have at least a passing familiarity with these relatively old books ( which makes me really old ). Happy people are in for the ride and I will restrict my bitching about changes to the book thread!