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Pam & Tommy - General Discussion


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I figured Brandon Lee from The Crow would be the most apt comparison since that had only come out a few years earlier.

I always preferred Nikki Sixx over Tommy, I met Nikki at a book signing for “This is Gonna Hurt”.🥰 14-year-old me’s list of potential rock star husbands was

1)Slash 2) Nikki Sixx 3) Blas Elias of Slaughter 4) maybe Rachel Bolan of Skid Row? 
 

I never liked Bon Jovi, he was just too generically handsome and smiley and corporate for my tastes- the Tom Cruise of rock music. When they switched over to “adult rock” like “It’s My Life” I thought  - yeah, that’s about right.

Edited by MCMLXXVII
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I always thought Vince was the hottest member of the Crue, but I was way more into Sebastian Bach and Kip Winger (also a lifelong crush on Michael Hutchence, but I know we're talking hair metal guys). My skin was crawling watching those scenes of Pam with the lawyers. If that was how it played out in real life, that's just completely horrible (and this show seems to take a lot of liberties, I really hope it was not that bad in real life) . 

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8 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

And apparently I'm in the minority but I don't find Tommy Lee attractive in any way.  Not 80s Tommy Lee, not 90s Tommy Lee and not current Tommy Lee.  I do find Sebastian Stan attractive but that's more due to his acting skills and how he comes off in interviews than how he looks.

you are not in the minority, i 100% agree with all of this, though I think Sebastian Stan is decent looking, though I'm not really feeling him in this role

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9 hours ago, Tattooeddancer said:

The vitriol toward/slut shaming of Pam in this thread is a little disappointing. 

And this is why the story is so interesting. If a tape have been stolen from someone, say like Jennifer Garner, people would be easily outraged at what happened to her. But you take a Pamela Anderson who has a public persona that exemplifies  sex and then you get a stolen sex tape, and there’s a mental disconnect for a lot of people, “how can she put herself out there as a sex goddess and then be upset with a sex tape” (not my sentiment) but that’s where their logic is. 

A lot of people don’t get it is it was possible for her to have a sexual persona AND be the victim of a horrible crime of her most private moments broadcast without her consent, add in the double standard that Tommy didn’t get raked over the coals like she did, and for people like me the outrage just goes to a whole new level. I have never been a big Pam fan but this has me outraged for her and I give her credit for coming thru this with her head held high. 

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I've always liked Pamela. I think she's sweet, applaud her activism, and think she's much more intelligent than she's given credit for.

As for the sex goddess stuff ... I might think, Pam, why on earth did you take that role?! I'm kind of a conservative person, so I don't get why she's done certain things in her career. But even if she started out making a living doing things on the adult side, it doesn't make it okay to have her personal sex tape stolen and put out there for the world to see forever. It is an extremely traumatic, violating thing to happen. As much as I love the internet, cell phones, and all that, it can get scary. 

I haven't done it myself, but it's very common for people of my generation and younger to have nudie pics with their phones. Imagine someone put out an imitate picture of your loved one out there as revenge. Maybe your family member or friend is wild, dresses provocatively, whatever. It doesn't make it okay to expose her like that to the world without her consent. 

If it were up to me, there would be very harsh revenge porn laws. I think anyone who even puts out her tape (or anyone else's) should face serious punishment. 

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7 hours ago, sadie said:

A lot of people don’t get it is it was possible for her to have a sexual persona AND be the victim of a horrible crime of her most private moments broadcast without her consent,

Thank you. I bet there are full on porn stars who would be mortified if a private recording of theirs was somehow made public. Why? Because that is NOT what they signed up for when they made this specific video, and people are allowed to either grant or deny consent, and furthermore they are entitled to privacy. Period. It does NOT matter what their chosen profession is. The idea that because Pamela posed nude when she wanted to, that she's supposed to get over her honeymoon tape being stolen and broadcast (and there is a MASSIVE difference between posed still shots and raw video for crying out loud) is a disconnect I will never understand. Even Tommy tried to imply this to Pam a few episodes ago and I have no idea how she didn't manage to shoot him with his own shotgun. Dude is NOT HELPFUL.

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9 hours ago, sadie said:

But you take a Pamela Anderson who has a public persona that exemplifies  sex and then you get a stolen sex tape, and there’s a mental disconnect for a lot of people, “how can she put herself out there as a sex goddess and then be upset with a sex tape” (not my sentiment) but that’s where their logic is. 

 

9 hours ago, sadie said:

A lot of people don’t get it is it was possible for her to have a sexual persona AND be the victim of a horrible crime of her most private moments broadcast without her consent, add in the double standard that Tommy didn’t get raked over the coals like she did,

I completely agree with you. However, I think because she continued (and continues) to put herself out there as a sex object, it minimized the seriousness and the privacy factor of the situation.  Also, after divorcing Tommy, she married that scumbag Rick Solomon (TWICE, btw) who leaked and profited off of his sex tape with Paris Hilton without her consent. 

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On 2/17/2022 at 1:49 PM, qtpye said:

It would be kind of hilarious if they were implying that Tommy never evolved past 1987.

However, it felt like this was written by people who do not have any recollection of the '90s. That is particularly egregious considering this show is all about the '90s and how celebrity culture changed for the worse when this tape was stolen.

Here is Tommy with Methods of Mayhem...definitely not hair metal. Pam makes a cameo at the end of this video. There are even snippets of the tape.

 

Why’s she riding a hen instead of a rooster (cock)? Lol

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On 2/25/2022 at 9:05 PM, snickers said:

you are not in the minority, i 100% agree with all of this, though I think Sebastian Stan is decent looking, though I'm not really feeling him in this role

I think Tommy Lee’s face is attractive but I don’t like all the tattoos and the super skinny body.  It’s just not my thing. I’m probably showing my age though as everyone has tats now LOL. 

 

Edited by Sweet-tea
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On 2/25/2022 at 7:09 PM, MCMLXXVII said:

I always preferred Nikki Sixx over Tommy, I met Nikki at a book signing for “This is Gonna Hurt”.🥰 14-year-old me’s list of potential rock star husbands was

1)Slash 2) Nikki Sixx 3) Blas Elias of Slaughter 4) maybe Rachel Bolan of Skid Row? 
 

I never liked Bon Jovi, he was just too generically handsome and smiley and corporate for my tastes- the Tom Cruise of rock music. When they switched over to “adult rock” like “It’s My Life” I thought  - yeah, that’s about right.

Yeah, Nikki Six was way cuter than Tommy AND Vince, IMO.  And I think Richie Sambora is cuter than Bon Jovi.  

I never found any hair band guys attractive until the Great 90's Haircuts.  Not just the effeminate look (I think I've spent my life solidly straight lol), but they always looked like they smelled like cigarettes, body odor, and sex.

I wish Pam had been involved in this, I would feel less like I was exploiting her a second time.  But what I really appreciate with shows like this is how public option and culture have changed since this happened and this kind of makes people re-think what they thought about the scandal.  I know I was in college when this broke and I thought it was disgusting that ANYONE would make a sex tape of ANY kind, period.  Now, I'm outraged on behalf of Pam, especially, but both of them.  What an awful thing to do to someone.

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2 minutes ago, larapu2000 said:

Now, I'm outraged on behalf of Pam, especially, but both of them.  What an awful thing to do to someone.

I was in my late 20s when this happened and I remember everyone with access to a computer watching it online.  But I do not remember knowing it had been stolen from them.  I don't think I thought they released it themselves but I have no memory of the court case or knowing it was that sleazy guy Seth Rogen is playing. who stole it.   But the whole Lewinsky thing happened right after this so I think that got a lot more media attention.  

I think Pam has  horrid taste in men but I do admire the fact she didn't let this or any of the other stuff that has happened to her destroy her.  

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The last episode (6), with the deposition, was so sad at the end. Max Caulfield is doing a great job playing Guccione.  He sounds just like him.  I worked at his company for a little while MANY years ago.  That's all.

Edited by EtheltoTillie
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3 hours ago, larapu2000 said:

Yeah, Nikki Six was way cuter than Tommy AND Vince, IMO.  And I think Richie Sambora is cuter than Bon Jovi.  

I never found any hair band guys attractive until the Great 90's Haircuts.  Not just the effeminate look (I think I've spent my life solidly straight lol), but they always looked like they smelled like cigarettes, body odor, and sex.

I wish Pam had been involved in this, I would feel less like I was exploiting her a second time.  But what I really appreciate with shows like this is how public option and culture have changed since this happened and this kind of makes people re-think what they thought about the scandal.  I know I was in college when this broke and I thought it was disgusting that ANYONE would make a sex tape of ANY kind, period.  Now, I'm outraged on behalf of Pam, especially, but both of them.  What an awful thing to do to someone.

I thought Tommy looked his best in the 90s with the shorter hair. I'm not a fan of long hair (or makeup) on men either. I like a guy with a nice face, but I like a man to look like a man.

Agree with you about Pamela. Pamela's always been too nice. She's dealt with a lot of jokes about the tape. Another time I was outraged on her behalf was when she was groped by Andy Dick at a roast. The poor thing look shocked but just dealt with it. 

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I heard about the tape years ago and had friends who watched it. I didn’t then and won’t ever. I think it’s vile to do something like that, given that the tape was stolen. IMO isn’t not much different that’s looking in someone’s window. 

I wonder if Tommy and Heather Locklear had a tape. 

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25 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

I wonder if Tommy and Heather Locklear had a tape. 

In the second episode, when Tommy was high and having a conversation with his penis, he said that Heather had been "too conservative" for him, which I took to mean that she didn't want to make a tape.

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12 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

I heard about the tape years ago and had friends who watched it. I didn’t then and won’t ever. I think it’s vile to do something like that, given that the tape was stolen. IMO isn’t not much different that’s looking in someone’s window. 

I've never watched it.  Porn has never really been all that appealing to me.

While I do believe she had no knowledge of it being stolen and had nothing to do with it being released I cannot say the same for any of the "leaked" sex tapes of other celebrities that came after this one.  

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(edited)

Just starting the first ep. Seth Rogen is totally creepy. I would imagine he's creepy in real life (he plays creepy well in other roles). And probably too stoned to know what is what.

If you want insight into Tommy, interviews with his sister Athena (fellow drummer) are great. With Pam, I'm not sure what to make of her. She seems to have bad taste in men. I think she just had her fifth divorce. She may benefit from dating rather than marrying. Bobbie Brown of Cherry Pie video fame was engaged to him and he dumped her fast for Pam. 

Edited by Atlanta
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(edited)

I find it hard to believe that Pam was sooo shocked that Barb Wire was regarded as a bad movie. Did everyone on set just lie and tell her that ripping off Casablanca and making it dumber and gender switched was a really good idea?

Edited by Wizardpatch
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9 minutes ago, Wizardpatch said:

I find it hard to believe that Pam was sooo shocked that Barb Wire was regarded as a bad movie. Did everyone on set just lie and tell her that ripping off Casablanca and making it dumber and gender switched was a really good idea?

She doesn’t seem that intelligent so…………

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8 hours ago, Wizardpatch said:

I find it hard to believe that Pam was sooo shocked that Barb Wire was regarded as a bad movie. Did everyone on set just lie and tell her that ripping off Casablanca and making it dumber and gender switched was a really good idea?

I don’t find it hard to believe the way the show presents it. Pam worked very hard on the movie, and she had big hopes it would be an acting breakthrough for her. Lots of actors and directors don’t see movies they made the same way the public does, I.e., they don’t think their movies stink because they are emotionally invested in them.

I really want to see that interview with Jay Leno to know if she actually said that to him. I hope it was—she was very honest and composed.

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Pamela announced today that she would be releasing a documentary of her life on Netflix. I'm curious how that will differ from her portrayal here.

Another thing I'm curious about, in light of current events, is her connection with Russia. In an interview with Megyn Kelly in 2017 she said she'd been to the Kremlin four times to "speak about environmental issues." I wonder if she'd been there more recently and met with Putin.

About this episode: I liked seeing Rand being crapped on by everyone. He deserved it. I still don't really understand how the Seattle webcam guy is going to factor into any of this.

9 hours ago, Wizardpatch said:

I find it hard to believe that Pam was sooo shocked that Barb Wire was regarded as a bad movie. Did everyone on set just lie and tell her that ripping off Casablanca and making it dumber and gender switched was a really good idea?

I think everyone involved in making the movie, as well as her manager and agent, must have been telling her that the movie was great and she was great in it. Even at the premiere after-party, none of the Hollywood types would tell her the truth. It was only when she saw real people's reactions that it really dawned on her.

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Did Tommy about set $27,000 on fire ? What a fucking scumbag. Should have just teased him with it & donated it. Yeah, I’m thinking rationally. Can’t help thinking of the good they money could have gone to. What was Tommy talking about when he said to Rand “ did Pam deserve what you did to her”? He doesn’t know who stole the tape yet, did I miss something? 
I just can’t stomach Pam or Tommy. Rich fucking asshole & woman with issues. The posing , baby talk, flirting, childish demeanor etc is grating. 

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I would assume that everyone involved in making the movie, and not just the "not that intelligent" Pam, hoped it would be successful. And I assume Tommy was able to put together that the letter was regarding the tape (and I read that Rand included the wedding bikini with it, though I didn't notice that part -- and I also don't know if there even was a letter at all in real life).

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5 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I just can’t stomach Pam or Tommy. Rich fucking asshole & woman with issues. The posing , baby talk, flirting, childish demeanor etc is grating. 

Funny, baby talk is one of my pet peeves, but I never thought Pam did that. I do think she has a soft, sweet voice. 

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On 2/28/2022 at 8:20 PM, chocolatine said:

In the second episode, when Tommy was high and having a conversation with his penis, he said that Heather had been "too conservative" for him, which I took to mean that she didn't want to make a tape.

Bobbie Brown mentions (in "Dirty Rocker Boys") that this must have been a Pam thing because he never brought up wanting to video them having sex. Her book has some funny and, of course, crazy moments. She was friends with Dave Navarro and had to go by his house to pick up a book and he's wearing these sheer pants and shoots up right then and there. She has a fun encounter with singer Bobby Brown and they tease each other about stealing each other's names.

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On 2/25/2022 at 1:06 PM, Snapdragon said:

And apparently I'm in the minority but I don't find Tommy Lee attractive in any way.  Not 80s Tommy Lee, not 90s Tommy Lee and not current Tommy Lee.  I do find Sebastian Stan attractive but that's more due to his acting skills and how he comes off in interviews than how he looks.

That just means you probably have much better taste in men than I do.

On 2/25/2022 at 5:10 PM, RealHousewife said:

Bon Jovi is indeed super cute. Sebastian was too pretty for my tastes. 

Sebastian was one of the prettiest men I have ever seen.

6 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Funny, baby talk is one of my pet peeves, but I never thought Pam did that. I do think she has a soft, sweet voice. 

I actually like her voice. My cousin has a voice like her but looks totally different. When my cousin went to law school they told her she had to deepen her voice to be taken seriously.

5 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Did Tommy about set $27,000 on fire ? What a fucking scumbag. Should have just teased him with it & donated it. Yeah, I’m thinking rationally. Can’t help thinking of the good they money could have gone to. What was Tommy talking about when he said to Rand “ did Pam deserve what you did to her”? He doesn’t know who stole the tape yet, did I miss something? 
I just can’t stomach Pam or Tommy. Rich fucking asshole & woman with issues. The posing , baby talk, flirting, childish demeanor etc is grating. 

Good lord, they are making Tommy look more and more like an idiot.

He goes meets Rand in a parking lot, by himself, to "kick his ass"?

Why did he not call the police?  What if Rand came with a gun?

Tommy is so dense that even when he tries to "help" Pamela, he makes things much worse.

He seems to have no idea that people were laughing at her in the movie.

The most moral person in this movie is Rand's ex-girlfriend who knows what consent actually means.

I think Lily James should get nominated for an Emmy in this role. She is doing an amazing job.

They are really trying to make Rand look sympathetic because he was "just too stupid to know better"?

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Funny that Pam was up for the role that got Kim Basinger her Oscar. I could see her in Austin Powers but not sure if she could pull off a British accent.

Overall it was a decent series. The acting and portrayals were fairly good overall. I do ultimately feel bad for both of them, flaws and all. Crazy how a couple years later *purposely leaking a sextape would launch multiple careers including Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian. 

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Ingley, according to Rolling Stone, then took the tape to Louis “Butchie” Peraino, who had connections to a prominent New York mob family. Peraino lent Ingley $50,000 to make more copies of the tape and sell them online. Peraino was to receive interest on the loan and a percentage from the sales.

Ingley then copied the tapes and hired someone to build the websites as Gauthier took charge of shipments. While Gauthier was running the tape around L.A., Ingley went to New York and splurged with Peraino’s money— “$500 bottles of champagne, hookers every night, a room at the Plaza and lots of cocaine,” Rolling Stone reported.

As news of the tape spread, a biker gang would periodically pay a visit to Ingley’s studio, looking for the tape. (It’s unclear who hired them, though some believe it was Lee.) With pressure also coming from Peraino, Ingley left for the Netherlands. As copycat videos began to surface and profits slowed, Ingley was forced to sell his studio and cease shipments of the tape. While Ingley was able to pay Peraino back the loan, he still owed his financer interest. Knowing Peraino had cancer and hoping he would soon die and take the debts with him, Ingley decided to stay in Europe. Gauthier was forced to work the debt off, serving as one of the mob’s collectors as Ingley escaped retribution.

Where is Milton Ingley Now?


After Peraino died in 1999, Ingley returned to California, where he moved in with his daughter. According to Rolling Stone, Ingley stayed with his daughter until his death in 2006.

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Tommy to asshole in bar: Do not compliment me on my dick! The whole fuckin' world lookin at my dick!

Nikki: But dude...you love showing your dick. Albuquerque Civic Center Shout at the Devil Tour? It was out the whole fuckin' drum solo!

Tommy: That was consensual. I CHOSE to wag it.

Look, I know this is a serious issue, but I CACKLED. That scene was hilarious. A lesson on consent from Mr Tommy Lee, y'all.

Loved the appearances of Kurt Cobain and Jay Kay of Jamiroquai. My 90s heart was happy.

All in all I think this was really well acted. Great performances.

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I thought the show was going to completely gloss over Tommy's violent tendencies, but they did go there in the final episode with him yelling at a pregnant Pam and trashing their living room. 

I can't believe that webcam guy won an injunction to stream a private video that he didn't own. I know most people didn't understand the internet back then, but still.

Did it really take a tarot reading for Rand to realize that he had harmed Pamela? That guy deserves all the bad karma he got.

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57 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I thought the show was going to completely gloss over Tommy's violent tendencies, but they did go there in the final episode with him yelling at a pregnant Pam and trashing their living room. 

I can't believe that webcam guy won an injunction to stream a private video that he didn't own. I know most people didn't understand the internet back then, but still.

Did it really take a tarot reading for Rand to realize that he had harmed Pamela? That guy deserves all the bad karma he got.

How is that legal?!

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40 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

How is that legal?!

There is so much that is legal only because there isn't a specific law written or a previous case to set precedent. New technology is usually the reason. Just look at how many media contracts that ended up not covering streaming as a method of distribution. There have been a lot of new lawsuits going over that. Dave Chapelle being a recent vocal example. 

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On 3/3/2022 at 11:52 AM, qtpye said:

They are really trying to make Rand look sympathetic because he was "just too stupid to know better"?

Yeah I had a rage stroke at that line.

Look, I think it’s safe to say that we’re all guilty of doing something stupid when we’re angry and not thinking straight. But there’s a big difference between stupid and shitty.  Publicly humiliating someone by leaking their private photos/video was shitty. Nobody deserves that.

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19 hours ago, LaJefaza said:

Tommy to asshole in bar: Do not compliment me on my dick! The whole fuckin' world lookin at my dick!

Nikki: But dude...you love showing your dick. Albuquerque Civic Center Shout at the Devil Tour? It was out the whole fuckin' drum solo!

Tommy: That was consensual. I CHOSE to wag it.

Look, I know this is a serious issue, but I CACKLED. That scene was hilarious. A lesson on consent from Mr Tommy Lee, y'all.

Loved the appearances of Kurt Cobain and Jay Kay of Jamiroquai. My 90s heart was happy.

All in all I think this was really well acted. Great performances.

That plus the scene with Nikki on the phone talking him through how to set up the computer and internet had me cracking up. 

Tommy: "Do I need this white thing?"

Nikki: "That's the modem!"

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19 hours ago, LaJefaza said:

Loved the appearances of Kurt Cobain and Jay Kay of Jamiroquai. My 90s heart was happy.

I thought those guys were just supposed to be Nirvana fans. Kurt Cobain died in 1994 and this episode was set in 1996. 

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2 hours ago, Wizardpatch said:

What was the point of introducing Tommy's spirit animal/penis as an advisor if it was only for one appearance? I think it would have been funny having it be happy that now the whole world knows about it.

Yeah, I feel that the entire second episode was just a bunch of "shock value" stuff to try and get buzz about the show.  The graphic sex scenes, all the nudity, Tommy's talking penis.  The rest of the series has nothing like that and seemed to take pains not to show anything too graphic when it comes to the actual sex tape.  

I agree that the ending was abrupt.  They didn't even do a good job of saying what happened to everyone involved.  I had to look it up that the mobster guy died of cancer in 1999, at which point the porn guy (Ron Swanson) came back to the States.  

Edited by Snapdragon
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On 2/25/2022 at 2:13 PM, chocolatine said:

I personally don't find him attractive either, but I can see how he might appeal to a group of women who like "bad boys" and rock stars.

I wasn't into him either.  I thought Bon Jovi was cute. I also had a crush on Bono from U2 for awhile. My guy friends used to make fun of me for liking Bono and make short jokes about him. Maybe it was the voice I liked. I don't know. 

Edited by Sweet-tea
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7 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Has anyone seen the actual tape? Now they’ve got me wondering about it! 

In 97 or so. Honestly it wasn’t all that other than being someone you recognize from other media. More Blair Witch style camera with nudity and sex. I looked it up again because of the show but mostly to see what they try to recreate. 

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There’s a Hulu documentary series called “Dark Side of the 90s” and episode 6 is on Baywatch. Pam, Tommy, and the tape get a good chunk of time. Other episode topics include daytime TV talk shows, The Viper Room, Supermodels, Cults, all the “low culture” I love.😊

Edited by MCMLXXVII
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I still can't get over that Pam and Tommy basically had no rights when it came to their STOLEN PRIVATE tape .  The Seattle internet guy had more rights than they did.  Ridiculous!!!  I understand Pam wanted to move on from it, but I thought it was stupid they didn't agree to some sort of compensation for the tape.  She even mentioned that people thought they were getting paid, so why not?  

They were about 30 minutes from Lake Mead and needed to rest for the night but I didn't understand why they didn't pick a small motel instead of a super busy, super public hotel on the Las Vegas Strip. They are definitely not the brightest people.  

Regardless of the tape, Pam was never going to be taken seriously as an actress, IMO.  She has always been and always will be cast in roles that are about her body/looks/sex kitten appeal.  

I thought the ending was abrupt.  I think the series should have been one or two more episodes just to show their marriage after the sex tape frenzy died down and Tommy's anger escalating.  I'm also disappointed they didn't show Tommy having more of drinking problem.  Supposedly, that was a huge factor (besides the DV incident) of why they got divorced.  

 

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