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S41.E09: Who's Who in the Zoo

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9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

What the hell just happened? If Shan was down to vote out Naseer which Ricard wanted then why did Ricard vote for Heather and why did Shan vote for both Heather and Naseer? She just wasted her extra vote. All they had to do was vote out Naseer 3-2. Am I missing something or did they overplay this? Were they maybe worried Naseer would play his idol? Because then Heather goes home, extra vote or not.

I think Xander hit the nail on the head saying it's too hard to strategize and make deals when practically everyone has some kind of idol or advantage. I also think the show screwed them over splitting them up into two groups of five. 

This season really sucks.

I don't think Ricard knew Shan was going to pur a vote on Naseer so he stayed loyal and voted for Heather.

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2 hours ago, mojoween said:

Ricard voted for Heather.  Shan was holding two parchments and she voted for Naseer and Heather.  Which I still don’t get.

Only thing I can think is they planned to vote Naseer out. Ricard and Shan. So she wanted 1 vote on Heather in case Naseer used his idol. But she could have just done 1 Heather vote and told Ricard to go ahead and vote Naseer. But maybe they also didn't want Naseer to know since he is on jury (little early to make big jury management moves). So there were 3 Heather votes where Naseer may think he, Shan and Ricard did those. And there were 3 Naseer votes that Naseer may think the extra Naseer vote was from Erika or Heather???? And on revote Shan or Ricard had to flip to Naseer to avoid them going to rocks and one of them going home. That's how they might hope Naseer would see it. 

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9 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I would have pulled a Mike Skupin and flung myself into the fire.  Although at least I'd have a legitimate reason that it was to get a bug off me, and not sticking my face in smoke and breathing it in.

 

I'm guessing it was in case Naseer played his idol.  Which, Heather would still have gone home, but maybe to make it seem like she was on his side?  Ricard voted for Heather too, right?  I'm seriously confused why that vote went down the way it did, unless Ricard and Shan were trying jury management.  Or maybe it was in case Heather or Erika changed their vote.  I actually thought I understood, but I guess I don't lol

BTW, was Heather acting with those tears or did she really think she was leaving?  She's an interesting one.

I was puzzled about that, too. I thought she was acting but then I saw she'd been actually crying.

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9 hours ago, candall said:

Not a good episode for me.  I read allllllll the bios before the show started and I picked Naseer and Evvie to root for.  Double whammy.

 

I guess I'm going to back Ricard now.  1)Everyone here seems to loathe him and I like an underdog.  2)He deflates Shan's balloon like it's his job and that's always a good time.  3)His incredulous response to Liana trying Shan's move--"Give me your idol so I know I can trust you"--was hilarious.

Bonus points for "high maintenance alliance."  : )

I like Ricard, too, because he has a good grasp of what's going on and doesn't let emotion or ego distract him from seeing a good path. I think he's nice in real life and is just in ultra game play mode and doesn't take things too seriously. Unlike Shan, who thinks every thing must go her way and takes it as a personal insult if someone has a different opinion.

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9 hours ago, simplyme said:

They did this once before, the season of Feely Dan. They split the tribe in two. While balancing on a piece of wood, the players had to keep a ball going around in a circle they held. Nora won for one side (and immediately jumped off in celebration, losing the meal) and Elaine for the other. That was how Aaron and Missy were voted out.

So... Sorry I'm late to the party this season. I missed you guys, but the show hasn't really made me care enough to want to post. I suppose the show should be lauded for managing to cast such a diverse cast of punchable people.

Re: the extra vote. I tried to come up with a reason to use this and completely failed. When they showed how people voted, I'm fairly certain it showed that Ricard used the extra vote, so Shan must have given it to him to use (and presumably how it was used was agreed upon by them.) So votes for Heather were: Naseer, Shan, Ricard. Votes for Naseer were: Erika, Heather, Ricard.

I mean, what? Did Shan think that people wouldn't know if it was her or Ricard who cast an extra vote so they wouldn't be blamed? Did Ricard think using the stupid extra vote was a great idea because it meant Shan no longer had it to use later if she went crazy(er)? They still don't really make sense and waste the vote.

I've felt the same way, I think more because events in my life this fall have overpowered my ability to get joy or fun from much of anything. But I'm beginning to enjoy Survivor again.

Shan played her extra vote. At the very end where it showed who voted for who, Shan was shown holding up two votes, one for Heather and one for Naseer.

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10 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Sorry show but my heartstrings are 100%  immune to the sob story they were trying to gin up sympathy for regarding Ricard's hearing. He's just not a likeable person and his and Shan's alliance is the most bizarre in SURVIVOR history because they don't seem ever be on the same page at all.

As someone who also has unilateral hearing loss, also in the right ear, I actually thought that segment was kind of sweet. I think, because people don't really know about hearing loss ONLY in one ear (it's usually either fully deaf or not at all), it was good to get that out there. I don't know if I loved the sound effects that they used to showcase how the hearing loss works, but I appreciate the effort. It was touching for me because unilateral hearing loss isn't talked about and it helped humanize Ricard a bit more.

Ricard WAS edited well last night, as well. He had some very good moments, and him and Shan successfully flushed Naseer's idol/got him to go out with it in his pocket. Which I think is funny, considering he failed to flush Xander's idol the previous episode. And I liked him standing up to Shan. I do like Shan, but I do think her major flaws will cause her to lose this game. But she's playing hard and an excellent villain because I even get annoyed with her at times. 

Oh, Xander. After having some pretty good moves the last couple of episodes, you made a really crucial mistake by not playing that idol on Evvie. I get that he still has his idol and can still save himself when needed be, but will it even matter if he doesn't have an ally he can trust? He lost Tiffany, he's lost Evvie, and Liana is still likely after him. And, with some of the other threats now gone, Xander is going to find it hard to hide behind someone. I mean, Erika seems to be the bigger threat at the moment, but once she's gone (and she will be eventually), where will he turn to? He really doesn't have any allies now. Deshawn/Danny aren't going to bring him in when they have Shan/Liana still. Xander can POSSIBLY navigate through the next few Tribals, but he's made it harder on himself by not having a close ally he can trust. 

Plus, Evvie was my #1 to win. They were playing decently and I loved how they were navigating through the game. I knew it would be difficult for them to get to the end, but I had hope. 

I will miss Naseer, but he misplayed this week quite a bit. 

Deshawn has gone up in my books. I do think he's now the frontrunner to win this game and I'm not mad about it anymore. He had a good week. 

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11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

What the hell just happened? If Shan was down to vote out Naseer which Ricard wanted then why did Ricard vote for Heather and why did Shan vote for both Heather and Naseer? She just wasted her extra vote. All they had to do was vote out Naseer 3-2. Am I missing something or did they overplay this? Were they maybe worried Naseer would play his idol? Because then Heather goes home, extra vote or not.

I think it was because Shan doesn't trust Erika (for no reason really) so she was afraid Heather and Erika were trying to pull a fast one on her. I don't think it makes sense even in that case, but these people are not good players.

I'm actually with Lianna on Xander's face lol. He has a very smug smile and he's just gotten increasingly smarmy to me. Still, it's impossible to root for the Ricard/Shan/Lianna/Danny/DeShawn group so I'm forced to hope Xander can put a wrench in their plans.

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Just posted: Primetimer's own Joe Reid weighs in Shan's dangerous game --

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 She's been the protagonist of the show all season, with a heavy winner's edit that persists. She keeps coming out ahead at tribal, but she's scorching the earth behind her. This week once again saw her butting heads with her closest ally, Ricard, over the deeply trivial choice between targeting Naseer or Heather. This came a week after Shan annoyed DeShawn by gunning way too hard to eliminate Heather at tribal. She's pissing people off whose help she needs to make it to the end, and at this point she's also pissing off potential jurors.

And to top it off, she blew her extra-vote advantage this week to split votes on Naseer and Heather, all in the service of not even getting Heather voted out anyway. She's playing wayyyy too aggressively at the moment, and she's getting sloppy. Calling for her alliance to go huddle right in front of Xander and Erika was a terrible move, just begging to mobilize the rest of the tribe to rally against her. If she's going to live up to that winner's edit, it's gonna take a lot of work and some luck.

More here:
https://www.primetimer.com/features/survivors-double-elimination-sees-shan-playing-a-dangerous-game

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I don't think Ricard knew Shan was going to put a vote on Naseer so he stayed loyal and voted for Heather.

It's a possible theory but it seems unlikely to me. Shan and Ricard are pretty tight, and this vote was almost certainly a decision they made together. 

Jury management doesn't make much sense either. Naseer knows an extra vote was played and he knows Shan had it. There's no way for Shan and Ricard to pin this vote on anyone else.

Maybe they will explain this next week.

I found it odd that Ricard did not explain how he lost hearing in one ear. I mean, why bring it up at all, and explain that it was due to something that happened to him as a child, and then not elaborate on what that was? How is that part of it too personal? Because if it has some sort of tragic backstory it makes me think the show is holding that off until a more Ricard-centric episode comes along to make it that much more poignant.

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Part of Xander’s perception issue, I think, is his very deliberate yet also surfer dudey way of speaking.  It really doesn’t bother me, but I can see why it would bug people.

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I think they used the extra vote because they were scared that if Naseer played his idol one of Shan/Ricard could go home: Naseer votes for Heather, Shan and Ricard vote for Naseer, Erica and Heather vote for Shan/Ricard. Naseer plays his idol = Shan/Ricard goes home. It's a little far-fetched but the possibility was there.

The majority alliance is getting on my nerves. First Shan and the "Let's talk away from these inferiors.", then Liana and her comments about Xander (I would really like to know what's her problem with him) and then cheereing only for Naseer/Deshawn during the IC. Way to make the people on the bottom (and potential jury members) feel like crap. I laughted when Erica and Xander won the immunity.

I'm glad Xander saved his idol because Evvie proved herself to be a very untrusthworthy ally and he will need that idol later in the game but it's a shame he didn't use his extra vote to force a tie. I feel like that would probably made Deshawn and Danny flip and Liana would go home because there's no way they would go to rocks for her.

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I didn't care for Evie from the beginning, people who seem to be laughing while talking really bug me, so very irritating to me.  I don't think she was trustworthy at all, wanted Xander out almost from the beginning, and was only sticking with him because of his idol so he could maybe save her, so I think he made the right decision.    Good riddance!

I don't really mind Ricard, I think he's really intelligent, and is maybe being underestimated.  I too hope he's behind Shan's boot.  Liana is still in mean highschool girl mode, needs to grow up.  She hates Xanders's face?  They need to hand that bitter betty a mirror.  

Nasser wasn't going to last anyway, and his apologizing to Heather because she was going to be voted out had karma written all over it. 

 

Edited by wintrygal
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1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Oh, Xander. After having some pretty good moves the last couple of episodes, you made a really crucial mistake by not playing that idol on Evvie. I get that he still has his idol and can still save himself when needed be, but will it even matter if he doesn't have an ally he can trust? He lost Tiffany, he's lost Evvie, and Liana is still likely after him. And, with some of the other threats now gone, Xander is going to find it hard to hide behind someone.

All of this. Idols and advantages aren't more valuable than allies. Even Russell Hantz knew this. At this point, Xander pretty much has to go on an immunity run to get to the end. Yes, he has his extra vote and his idol, but the extra vote is useless to him without allies to vote with and the idol will only buy him safety for one tribal council where he's not immune. Mind you, the majority alliance has been surprisingly inept at handling his hidden immunity idol (seriously, how did these people let two tribal councils go by without organizing a split vote between Xander and another Yase?), but I don't think it's a good idea to sit back and hope that your opponents [continue to] make mistakes.

This two tribal council set up could not have been more ideal for ensuring that Xander and Evvie both survived: Xander won immunity, he and Evvie were in the same group, and the split was 2-3. It's wild to me that both Xander and Evvie were so comfortable that Deshawn (and maybe Danny?) were going to vote Liana. On the other hand, maybe it was just Evvie who didn't know what was going to go down. Obviously Xander didn't play the idol for her, but he also didn't seem very shocked by the vote. Maybe he's still salty about the fact that Evvie told Deshawn everything about his idol when they were off doing the Risk/Save Your Vote decision.

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

What the hell just happened? If Shan was down to vote out Naseer which Ricard wanted then why did Ricard vote for Heather and why did Shan vote for both Heather and Naseer? She just wasted her extra vote. All they had to do was vote out Naseer 3-2. Am I missing something or did they overplay this?

Yes, I think she overplayed it. I don't see what her split vote achieved or what she thought it would achieve. The fact that literally no one on this board sees the point of that move suggests that there wasn't one. His being voted out unanimously on the revote is a dead giveaway that he was the target all along.

9 hours ago, ByaNose said:

And, no one is talking about Danny either. Usually, the strong guy who’s playing the game well and is pretty good at challenges are always targeted but you never hear his name come up. Also, he seems totally likable, too. I find it odd why neither Shan or Danny’s name have come up. At least, to the viewers. 

Danny would be my pick if I were Xander [and Evvie and Tiffany, if they were somehow still in the game] trying to blindside the majority alliance. Deshawn is the most obvious target (at least to us viewers) since he seems to have a strong social game, but that fact and the friction between him and Shan mean that you're better off keeping him in the game in the hope that he flips on his alliance. Danny, as his closest ally (and the one, who I suspect, kept him voting with Liana), is who I'd target to weaken Deshawn's ties to his alliance. It's like the Edgardo blindside—you go for the person they'd least expect to be in danger.

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4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

As someone who also has unilateral hearing loss, also in the right ear, I actually thought that segment was kind of sweet. I think, because people don't really know about hearing loss ONLY in one ear (it's usually either fully deaf or not at all), it was good to get that out there. I don't know if I loved the sound effects that they used to showcase how the hearing loss works, but I appreciate the effort. It was touching for me because unilateral hearing loss isn't talked about and it helped humanize Ricard a bit more.

It was good to get that out there!  One reason I disliked Ricard at first was that I would see the group laughing or smiling about something while he would be perfectly straight faced.  I thought it was because he was feeling superior to the crowd, and now I expect he just hadn't heard whatever they were laughing about.  He's grown on me every episode and may actually be my favorite now.

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Is it just me or is this the dirtiest, sweatiest group of Survivors yet? I know that eventually they all start to look pretty ragged and especially in the early seasons, really skinny, but within a few days this group looked so awful! 

I'm assuming it's the extreme heat, but I actually feel itchy and uncomfortable looking at them, and that doesn't usually happen. 

By contrast, Tiffany looked fresh as a daisy last night, gigantic bug notwithstanding, and I felt bad for her when Naseer had to squish in beside her without even a shower. I'd love at least a couple of talking heads about how they all feel about being so filthy. 

I know, this show gives me weird obsessions to focus on when I can't figure out the strategy. 

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I think Ricard is one of the smartest players there.  Her obsession with getting rid of Erica or Heather made no sense at all.  He was right about who to take out.  He may recognize that Shan is a very off putting person and keep her thinking he could win over her. However, if he becomes aware of the Big Brother wannabe alliance, he'd do better to get her out.  It seems that despite Deshawn complaining about Shan a lot, they and the others share something that the rest of the tribe does not, and that may prevail in their voting.

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A smidge disappointed in Xander, just a smidge. I would have made of a show of letting them know I was giving the HI to Evie and then announce to all three that definitely one of them was going home.

Let them stew on that for a few hours. Let them tear each other limb from limb.   Liana would probably ask one of the guys to vote himself (yes I know you can't). Then finally just before tribal tell them we were voting for Liana. Those two guys would never take the chance that Evie might not play that idol. Never.  Then have Evie not play the idol.

One of the 5 is gone and Shan would self destruct when she finds out. Now you still have both advantages.

Croak the  one of the 5 out of the game on the 9 vote. Best time to play an idol is the 9 vote.

 

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I don't like Liana, but she's so hilariously stupid that I want her to stick around so she can continue to ask Xander to give her his idols and advantages and he can continue to say, "um, no?"

This week there were so many squandered opportunities. Xander and Erika talked about how they needed to get Evvie, Heather, and Naseer together to form a counteralliance, but we never saw them try to do that. Not sure if they could have gotten Naseer on board anyway, since he weirdly thought Shan and Ricard were his BFFs, but it seems like Heather and Erika could have made him remember how he spent the first part of the game on the bottom at Blue and understand that things really had not changed for him. Then again, Heather didn't make that any easier by targeting him last TC. And on the other side, Xander probably should have used his idol for Evvie or at least lied about how he would use it for her and force Danny, Deshawn, and Liana to turn against each other. I know Xander needs that idol for himself, but he's no longer even trying to leverage his possession of it. He's got nerves of steel, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he ends up going home with the idol in his pocket.

And Shan and Ricard playing the extra vote was just a big WTF. Unless this was some elaborate con of Ricard's to throw Shan under the bus once the tribe is reunited (by claiming she was the one targeting Naseer, which would at least explain his vote for Heather), then it was a waste. And I don't think even that would work since she's on record as wanting Heather out and Naseer to stick around as an extra vote. I don't know; mostly I've decided the key to understanding everyone's strategy is to chalk it up to them all being terrible players. Everyone is doing random, useless things and thinking because they're still there, it means they're great players.

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42 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I don't like Liana, but she's so hilariously stupid that I want her to stick around so she can continue to ask Xander to give her his idols and advantages and he can continue to say, "um, no?"

This week there were so many squandered opportunities. Xander and Erika talked about how they needed to get Evvie, Heather, and Naseer together to form a counteralliance, but we never saw them try to do that. Not sure if they could have gotten Naseer on board anyway, since he weirdly thought Shan and Ricard were his BFFs, but it seems like Heather and Erika could have made him remember how he spent the first part of the game on the bottom at Blue and understand that things really had not changed for him. Then again, Heather didn't make that any easier by targeting him last TC. And on the other side, Xander probably should have used his idol for Evvie or at least lied about how he would use it for her and force Danny, Deshawn, and Liana to turn against each other. I know Xander needs that idol for himself, but he's no longer even trying to leverage his possession of it. He's got nerves of steel, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he ends up going home with the idol in his pocket.

And Shan and Ricard playing the extra vote was just a big WTF. Unless this was some elaborate con of Ricard's to throw Shan under the bus once the tribe is reunited (by claiming she was the one targeting Naseer, which would at least explain his vote for Heather), then it was a waste. And I don't think even that would work since she's on record as wanting Heather out and Naseer to stick around as an extra vote. I don't know; mostly I've decided the key to understanding everyone's strategy is to chalk it up to them all being terrible players. Everyone is doing random, useless things and thinking because they're still there, it means they're great players.

I loved that part…why don’t you let me hold your extra vote.   Is she that dumb?   He has immunity.    She tried to blind side him. Why does he need to do anything for her?   

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21 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I don't like Liana, but she's so hilariously stupid that I want her to stick around so she can continue to ask Xander to give her his idols and advantages and he can continue to say, "um, no?"

That was so weird. I suppose I can't fault her for trying (she wasn't really any worse off for having asked), but it really comes across like Liana doesn't understand how thoroughly she burned her bridges with her former Yase tribemates.

48 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

And Shan and Ricard playing the extra vote was just a big WTF. Unless this was some elaborate con of Ricard's to throw Shan under the bus once the tribe is reunited (by claiming she was the one targeting Naseer, which would at least explain his vote for Heather), then it was a waste.

He can't make that argument, though, because Naseer was voted out unanimously on the revote. Erika, Shan, and Ricard are all to blame for his ouster (and Heather, though it can't be reasonably held against her). I do wonder if this was a test to see if he could get her to give him the extra vote again. If so, then my guess is that Ricard now strongly suspects that Shan will never use her advantages for him, which might lead to him flipping on her and/or deliberately trying to get her to waste them. I don't know if wasting the extra vote would be an example of this or not, but if so, good on him.

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16 minutes ago, Hera said:

He can't make that argument, though, because Naseer was voted out unanimously on the revote. Erika, Shan, and Ricard are all to blame for his ouster (and Heather, though it can't be reasonably held against her).

Yeah, I thought it was interesting that Jeff read all three votes instead of just the two needed for Naseer to go. IIRC, it only has to be unanimous if it goes to a second revote, and if that fails then you go to rocks. I mean, it was obvious anyway that all three were for Naseer since if one had been for Heather, he would have read it before the third vote, but it seemed strange that he didn't leave Erika/Shan/and Ricard any space to lie about who they each voted for when they get back to camp. In any case, I do think it's possible there was more to Ricard's "use the extra vote" ploy than just ensuring Naseer would go, since he could have made sure of that by just voting for him and not telling Shan beforehand, but I also think it's possible that he doesn't know what he's doing.

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About Erika ... I can see why Shan thinks that she's dangerous.   Erika seems to understand the strategic implications of various moves.  She's fluid ... moving from group to group but not in a firm alliance with anyone.  And, she can make fire.  

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Everyone is doing random, useless things and thinking because they're still there, it means they're great players.

"Random" and "useless" are apt descriptions of this season, as a whole.

I think it's entirely possible that Xander was convinced Danny and DeShawn would work with him if he allowed Evvie to be voted out. We saw how Danny kept telling him he would "do whatever he wanted" but really pushed hard for Evvie to go.

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About Erika ... I can see why Shan thinks that she's dangerous.   Erika seems to understand the strategic implications of various moves.  She's fluid ... moving from group to group but not in a firm alliance with anyone.

Eh. They're down to eight players now, and four of them are in a tight alliance with Ricard as an extra vote. Let's see if Shan still thinks Erika is such a threat now. Of the three in the minority, only Xander has any advantages. And now that Naseer has gone home with an unused idol I fully expect that to come back into play. It would really crack me up if Xander found that one, too.

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I liked Naseer, and I'm sad to see him go.  However, some of the scenes they showed last night--particularly those with Heather, where he called her "Mama"--gave me some clues as to why members of his original tribe seemed to dislike him so much.  At least enough to throw a challenge, or to throw his name out as their first eviction if they ever had to go to TC.  There was just something in the way he talked to Heather that rubbed me the wrong way.  It clearly rubbed her the wrong way too, her body language and eyes told me that she loathed him. 

Come to think of it, in this bizarre advantage/idol filled season, we really haven't seen a lot of footage of just general camp life.  You know, hanging around the fire, bobbing in the waves, loud snoring in the shelter leading to annoyed glares...stuff like that.  We really haven't seen much night-vision footage at all, in fact.  I wonder if that is a fall-out of the Feely Dan scandal?

I'm also sorry to see Evvie go, but I'm not sorry to see her gawd-awful and unfortunately crotch accentuating rainbow biker/boy shorts underwear leave the beach. 

I continue to be impressed with Xander, but he is such a huge threat that there's very little chance he'll reach the end.  There's just too many people gunning for him--and have been since day one.

Liana needs to get over herself.  Yeah, she foolishly tried a big bitchy and splashy move at tribal council, and Xander, Evvie, and Tiffany totally played her and she wasted her actually quite powerful advantage on their skit.  The moment is over, she needs to let it go and play the current game and not keep trying to replay and correct past events.  To quote Jimmy Buffet:  breathe in, breathe out, move on.

I'm not fond of DeShawn or Shan, but he's certainly got her number.  If there's going to be a crack in that alliance, it is going to start there.

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1 hour ago, HurricaneVal said:

I liked Naseer, and I'm sad to see him go.  However, some of the scenes they showed last night--particularly those with Heather, where he called her "Mama"--gave me some clues as to why members of his original tribe seemed to dislike him so much.  At least enough to throw a challenge, or to throw his name out as their first eviction if they ever had to go to TC.  

Point of order: DeShawn and Danny were talking to him about throwing a challenge so that they could kick Erika off, not so they could kick him off. I don't remember there being any talk about dislike toward Naseer except in so far as he threw cold water on the "let's throw a challenge" plan as a dumb idea. I don't remember anyone on Blue saying they wanted Naseer out in particular, but I'm not necessarily crystal-clear on my recollection on these points.

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8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I found it odd that Ricard did not explain how he lost hearing in one ear.

I think it may go back to his childhood when he used to do a lot of outdoor winter sports and worked for that old druggist...

5 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I'd love at least a couple of talking heads about how they all feel about being so filthy. 

I literally wanted to hear them call 'CUT!' and come out and squeegee off Erica's face during that challenge, she is an all-pro in the area of sweating. Then there is Xander's face, that Liana hates, with it's scruffs that have had sweat and sand rubbed into them to a point where he'll probably have the markings for life.... so, yeah, they really are a bedraggled looking bunch.

Edited by Wandering Snark
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So many thoughts...first of all, I think Xander made the right call in not giving his idol to Evvie as she had talking heads in which she stated she was surprised that he considered playing it for her the first time as she wouldn't do it for him so she wasn't a strong ally of his and who knows if she would have turned on him once his idol was gone (and she did want an all-female alliance).  I don't think it was a really strong alliance with her at this point.

As for why Liana hates Xander so much, I think it might actually be because he is upstaging her.  She has hair tendrils coming down just right around her face and so does Xander.  She was going to make a big play at tribal council and steal his idol, he outplayed her and got the credit for a big play.  She's young-he's young.  She wants to manipulate him by taking his idol and he doesn't give it to her.  So, maybe it's more that he is a barrier to her getting all of the kudos she thinks she deserves.

And, here is what I think (not that anybody asked) about the extra vote and why Shan split the vote.  I think they wanted 3 votes on Heather and 3 votes on Nazeer in case Nazeer actually ended up working with Heather and Erika and one of them received their 3 votes.  That way they would force a revote.  Only thing I have.

I also think that the intent behind two "teams" and two tribal councils after sending one group to a different camp was to limit the strategizing amongst all of the players and try to shake up the game a bit.  

And Jeff can just stop it with his "why does everyone know about everyone else's advantages?"  Well Jeff, maybe it's because they had to say those stupid statements until all 3 were "activated."  Or, maybe it's because of all of the little trips away to play the prisoner's dilemma (with players from different teams).  Or, maybe it's because you tell them about advantages.  Geesch Jeff, don't play the fool-especially when you're the one who just had to introduce all of the advantages and twists.

I really, really, really wanted Liana to be voted out.  Sigh.  Maybe next week.  Or maybe Shan next week.  

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45 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

As for why Liana hates Xander so much, I think it might actually be because he is upstaging her.  She has hair tendrils coming down just right around her face and so does Xander.  She was going to make a big play at tribal council and steal his idol, he outplayed her and got the credit for a big play.  She's young-he's young.  She wants to manipulate him by taking his idol and he doesn't give it to her.  So, maybe it's more that he is a barrier to her getting all of the kudos she thinks she deserves.

I think this is largely true.

And in fairness, though I do enjoy him. If I were in a scenario where he was my opponent? That smug/zen face thing he does during endurance/stamina challenges? I would hate that face.

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21 hours ago, millennium said:

Liana has a beautiful face but those braids.  I'd go insane having them swinging in my face all day.   Even just looking at them, I can't shake the impression that they seem bug-like, like antennae.

Liana’s braids in front of her pupils are enough to make me despise her. 

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So many of these men are idiots. Weaken your own alliance so that you can feel like the Big Man who is Playing the Game™ instead of listening to a woman. Deshawn and Ricard are the fucking worst. 

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Here's my best guess as to the rationale behind the use of the extra vote.

Ricard and Shan know that normally there are 5 votes available. Erika and Heather have given every indication of voting as a pair and of voting for Naseer. But they could just as easily flip and vote either  Shan or Ricard.

Naseer is clearly voting for Heather and is expecting everyone to line up behind that vote who's not Heather. But he has an idol. 

Throwing the extra vote means that they could manage to get the exact situation they did: three guaranteed votes for Heather, which means neither Shan nor Ricard are going home because the most who could write their names down are Heather and Erika. It also means that if they've forecasted right, there would be Heather and Erika's vote plus the extra vote for Naseer. If Naseer plays his idol, the most likely scenario is that Heather goes home. If he doesn't the most likely scenario is a tie, and then in the revote Naseer is vulnerable to being voted out.

We know with the benefit of hindsight that they could have tried to blindside Naseer without using the extra vote and it would have succeeded. But without deploying the extra vote things could just as easily have been 2 votes Shan/Ricard, 2 votes Naseer, 1 vote Heather. with a tie-breaker in which Heather, Erika and either Shan/Ricard gets to vote. Then Heather and Erika could vote out Shan/Ricard. Or it could have been 1 vote Shan/Ricard, 4 votes Naseer, Naseer plays his idol and Shan/Ricard goes home. 

I'm not saying it was good gameplay to use the extra vote, because I don't think it was. But it does make somewhat more sure that they live to fight another day.

What makes this screwed up is the shot-in-the-dark. Heather could have taken the confidence that Naseer had that she was going home, realized that she and Erika almost certainly didn't have the numbers to save her and just forgone her vote. Indeed, her situation seems to be exactly what the shot-in-the-dark is made for. If Heather hit the 1-in-6 chance at safety and Naseer played his idol, it would have meant they would truly have wasted the extra vote and it would have come down to a revote where it was between Shan and Ricard.

 

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*  When Liana was saying she didn't like Xander's face, I couldn' help thinking if this was Xander, Evie or Heather saying this about Liana, Shan, Deshawn or Danny's face, just imagine the uproar the show would have received.

*  Xander should've played the idol on Evie so they could've picked the  black alliance could one by one.

*  Xander and Erica are the ones I'm rooting for at this point.

*  This is the worst season for me. 

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On 11/17/2021 at 9:56 PM, LadyChatts said:

The way I look at the extra vote is this.  Erika/Heather vote Naseer, Naseer votes for Heather.  If Shan/Ricard were worried about Naseer playing his idol, then all one of them had to do was vote for Heather, the other one for Naseer.  One of them would still have gone home.  The only logic I can see is either proving Erika/Heather are voting together (which I don't know what their point would be with that), or trying to make it seem like those two orchestrated the Naseer vote (which again makes no sense, because Shan also voted for Naseer).  I'm guessing they didn't think it through completely.  Because the extra vote is good until the final 6 I think, right?

 

29 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Here's my best guess as to the rationale behind the use of the extra vote.

Ricard and Shan know that normally there are 5 votes available. Erika and Heather have given every indication of voting as a pair and of voting for Naseer. But they could just as easily flip and vote either  Shan or Ricard.

Naseer is clearly voting for Heather and is expecting everyone to line up behind that vote who's not Heather. But he has an idol. 

Throwing the extra vote means that they could manage to get the exact situation they did: three guaranteed votes for Heather, which means neither Shan nor Ricard are going home because the most who could write their names down are Heather and Erika. It also means that if they've forecasted right, there would be Heather and Erika's vote plus the extra vote for Naseer. If Naseer plays his idol, the most likely scenario is that Heather goes home. If he doesn't the most likely scenario is a tie, and then in the revote Naseer is vulnerable to being voted out.

We know with the benefit of hindsight that they could have tried to blindside Naseer without using the extra vote and it would have succeeded. But without deploying the extra vote things could just as easily have been 2 votes Shan/Ricard, 2 votes Naseer, 1 vote Heather. with a tie-breaker in which Heather, Erika and either Shan/Ricard gets to vote. Then Heather and Erika could vote out Shan/Ricard. Or it could have been 1 vote Shan/Ricard, 4 votes Naseer, Naseer plays his idol and Shan/Ricard goes home. 

I'm not saying it was good gameplay to use the extra vote, because I don't think it was. But it does make somewhat more sure that they live to fight another day.

This is absolutely the reason not only the extra vote was used, but why Shantel split her votes.   Doing so countered all moves that could have led to either her or Ricard getting voted out.

 

10 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Yeah, I thought it was interesting that Jeff read all three votes instead of just the two needed for Naseer to go. IIRC, it only has to be unanimous if it goes to a second revote, and if that fails then you go to rocks.

He didn't read all three votes; he read three out of four.  Apparently, the Extra Vote carried over to the re-vote.  Wish Xander knew that.

 

 

10 minutes ago, rr2911 said:

Xander should've played the idol on Evie so they could've picked the  black alliance could one by one.

Nope, he should have used his Extra Vote, and made them pick each other off.

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A few personal thoughts/observations:

  • Shan’s gameplay is getting increasingly sucky; her little “Let’s walk away from these two and just the four of us talk” bit was more strategically tone-deaf than Ricard’s papaya gaffe last week, and that’s saying something.
  • I’m still on the fence about whether Xander not playing his idol for Evvie was a good idea or not; ATEOTD it comes down to how much Xander felt he could trust Evvie to have his back as an ally, and I guess in his mind she came up short - and I can’t really say I fault Xander for that impression.  Not to mention the generally sensible “If I have an idol the only person it’s getting played on is me” notion; I expect Sandra would approve. 😉
  • I’m 100% absolutely over Liana; she can go fuss to her alliance mates, go cry on Shan’s shoulder, go cry in her coffee, go curse the darkness, go wait for Godot, go piss up a rope - hell, I don’t care WHERE Liana goes, so long as she just goes the fuck AWAY from my TV screen.
  • Nothing at all against Heather - I’m sure she’s a very nice lady - but watching her feeble “Oh hey, maybe I should be trying to DO something” attempts at gameplay are about as exciting as watching moss grow on a rock.
  • Mmmm… stew…. although I do kinda have my doubts as to whether or not actual beef was involved.  Some of those meat chunks looked pretty damn suspicious.

 

21 hours ago, mojoween said:

Shan was holding two parchments and she voted for Naseer and Heather.  Which I still don’t get.

I can only think of two possible options:

  1. Shan wanted really bad to be seen as making a Big Game Move, but she had absolutely NO idea what that BGM should actually be.
  2. Plausible deniability.  If anybody started in on Shan about how she voted, she can truthfully say “Hey, don’t get on MY case; I voted for the other guy” – although I don’t think it’s likely anybody’s gonna be dragging a polygraph out on the island any time soon, so this would seem a bit like overkill.

 

 

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For anyone still not quite understanding why Ricard and Shan voted the way they did, I posted a breakdown of why I think they did in the old Strategy thread here:

 

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3 hours ago, SVNBob said:
14 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Yeah, I thought it was interesting that Jeff read all three votes instead of just the two needed for Naseer to go. IIRC, it only has to be unanimous if it goes to a second revote, and if that fails then you go to rocks.

He didn't read all three votes; he read three out of fourApparently, the Extra Vote carried over to the re-vote.  Wish Xander knew that.

 

If that's true, that's kind of bullshit. An extra vote should mean AN extra vote. One and done.

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5 hours ago, SVNBob said:

 

This is absolutely the reason not only the extra vote was used, but why Shantel split her votes.   Doing so countered all moves that could have led to either her or Ricard getting voted out.

 

He didn't read all three votes; he read three out of four.  Apparently, the Extra Vote carried over to the re-vote.  Wish Xander knew that.

 

 

Nope, he should have used his Extra Vote, and made them pick each other off.

I keep saying he should have used that extra vote. It would have been a tie and gone to revote and if it stayed a tied and went to rocks Deshawn and Danny would be at risk. So one or both would most definitely have flipped on revote. Bye, Liana (and HER ugly face).

Edited by Lamima
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I really hope the brewing dissention in their alliance means the end is nigh for Shan and it's not part of Shan Learns a Lesson on the way to a win. She was a favorite early on, but I just can't get behind the way she tries to dominate her alliance. My view is probably biased, though, because I like Deshawn and my personal experiences with being part of groups steered by the loudest/most obstinate. 

I still think there are too many twists this season. It's hard for me to judge anyone's gameplay when they are all just reacting to the latest and not wheeling and dealing at camp over empty days. 

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54 minutes ago, AncientNewbie said:

I still think there are too many twists this season. It's hard for me to judge anyone's gameplay when they are all just reacting to the latest and not wheeling and dealing at camp over empty days.

I agree.  I was just watching Survivor Australia, where if the 1 idol is played, it gets hidden again.  That's it.  There's too much Survivor currency out there, all the talks are like poker plays.. if we vote this way, X will play his idol, but Y might have the extra vote... The 'alliances' become meaningless with so many options in play.

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15 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Point of order: DeShawn and Danny were talking to him about throwing a challenge so that they could kick Erika off, not so they could kick him off. I don't remember there being any talk about dislike toward Naseer except in so far as he threw cold water on the "let's throw a challenge" plan as a dumb idea. I don't remember anyone on Blue saying they wanted Naseer out in particular, but I'm not necessarily crystal-clear on my recollection on these points.

Danny suggested voting out Naseer in the last episode. It's how the whole kerfuffle between Shan and DeShawn started.

12 hours ago, gesundheit said:

And in fairness, though I do enjoy him. If I were in a scenario where he was my opponent? That smug/zen face thing he does during endurance/stamina challenges? I would hate that face.

Exactly this. His face is smug. The way he went about telling Liana she wasted her advantage was dickish. I enjoyed it but I can understand why Liana is not a Xander fan.

6 hours ago, rr2911 said:

*  When Liana was saying she didn't like Xander's face, I couldn' help thinking if this was Xander, Evie or Heather saying this about Liana, Shan, Deshawn or Danny's face, just imagine the uproar the show would have received.

Liana is getting plenty of backlash over what she said.

3 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

If that's true, that's kind of bullshit. An extra vote should mean AN extra vote. One and done.

This. That's completely ridiculous.

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11 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Danny suggested voting out Naseer in the last episode. It's how the whole kerfuffle between Shan and DeShawn started.

What the other poster was talking about was back Blue was its own tribe.

Quote

I liked Naseer, and I'm sad to see him go.  However, some of the scenes they showed last night--particularly those with Heather, where he called her "Mama"--gave me some clues as to why members of his original tribe seemed to dislike him so much. At least enough to throw a challenge, or to throw his name out as their first eviction if they ever had to go to TC. 

Emphasis added.

I don't remember anyone saying "If we have to go to tribal, let's vote Naseer" back then. DeShawn and Danny definitely were not at that point because they were afraid of women voting out men and were specifically targeting Erika. We didn't see Heather very much so I feel confident Heather had not expressed an anti-Naseer sentiment that made it on screen. Erika got a similar dearth of screen time until she got the TBT thing. It's certainly possible Sydney did; I just don't remember. It seemed like the early episodes were focused more on the tribes that actually were going to Tribal than Blue.

Even up through this episode, I don't remember anybody expressing personal dislike of Naseer. Again, it could be that Sydney did. But that's Sydney, she seems to dislike everyone who ain't her.

Edited by Chicago Redshirt
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On 11/17/2021 at 10:20 PM, DEL901 said:

My guess it is because she made her big showy move a few weeks ago abnd ended up wasting her advantage.  

She got out-played, spectacularly, by him and is the sorest of sore losers.

She can go any time now. 

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Also, I am so glad Xander didn't waste his idol or extra vote on Evvie. She was gunning for him since the very beginning, even telling the opposition about his idol, in an attempt to make inroads there. She was clearly down to get rid of him this very episode. Keeping Evvie in the game is not in his best interest.

The more I think about it, the more annoyed I am at Liana. She really needs to grow up. And I am one that will put Xander's "No...but you can have this fake" response to Liana smug and superior "gotcha!" in asking for his idol up there with some of the best moments. 

I also don't get what is so annoying about Xander. He's playing basically by himself and has been from the beginning, yet his looks and demeanor (some of the latter I suspect is a put-on for obvious reasons) are, apparently, a reason for derision. I mean, even his facial expressions and his very face are a source of hatred for Liana, which is kind of BSC, right there. 

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