S05.E03: Pressure, Okay?!

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Still adjusting to newfound responsibilities, one of Issa's exes finds himself torn between two places, while an important woman in his life remains wary of his ability to be fully present back home.

Original air date 2021.11.07

[RealReality]

I'm interested to see what the mothers in the group have to say, because I probably have some difficulty understanding Condola's perspective. 

I can identify with Condola's sister though.  

[After7Only]

Not a mom…but I started out on Lawrence’s side with the text message birth announcement of baby Elijah Mustafa.   But towards the end where they showed the montage of Lawrence working on his career, popping champagne, and sexing multiple ladies, in contrast to Condola struggling raising the baby…I started to  appreciate Condola’s point of  view.   Just glad it ended with them talking and trying to figure out how to make it work.  

[Racj82]

Most people like to be pro Lawrence or anti Lawrence instead of judging him like a three dimensional character. I've always been able to see him from multiple perspectives.

This episode was no different.

I completely understand Lawrence hating being made to feel like an absentee parent. I understand his frustration. 

On the other side, he has to know that while none of this was his choice this is just the situation he is in. He has to cope. 

She is the one with the baby. He's not an absentee dad but he's just not there. All of trials and tribulations of having a newborn, she is dealing with alone. So, I get her side. 

Also, it's hard for many people to give up their baby to another person. He is Elijah's dad but he hasn't done any of the hard stuff. It’s understandable for her to hesitant.

Both of them are valid in their feelings but they have to get their communication down.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Racj82

[Irlandesa]

Last season Condola acted like she didn't care if Lawrence was a part of the baby's life or not. (One of my TV character pet peeves) She just wanted to let him know she was pregnant.  This season, she resents him because she has to do so much even though those were the parameters she laid out. 

Lawrence in San Francisco is where Condola was when she first got pregnant.  She likely didn't understand just what being a single parent would entail.  She does now and Lawrence doesn't.  And yet, when he might get exposed by taking the baby for longer than a few hours, she doesn't want him to. 

I'm glad they talked at the end but I didn't hate him saying that he'd take the baby whether she wanted him to or not during their fight.  If they can't talk it out, a formal custody agreement might be the best thing for them to at least get them started on the path of coparenting. 

[Amethyst]

Both Condola and Lawrence messed up.  Discussions and decisions about what to do regarding parenting should have happened months ago, but it doesn't look like Lawrence was involved at all until Elijah was actually born?  So that tips the scale for Condola.  Issa mentioned on twitter that something Condola said last season, how Lawrence could be involved "as much or as little as he wanted" was going to come back on her.  She's also realizing how difficult it is being a single parent.  Her sister can't be around every day to help with Elijah.  I'm wondering if Condola is still working.

I do see that Lawrence is making an effort.  Commuting like that would put a strain on anyone.  But the split screen really said it all.  Lawrence is still free to work his dream job and live his life how he pleases.  And Lawrence's comment to Derek about how other men don't even do that vs what he's making an effort to do...that's not the flex he thinks it is.

Even if Elijah hadn't been fussy, I knew Condola wasn't letting him go.  That fight was a long time coming.  Had the turbulence not shook him up, I thought the first person Lawrence would have called was a lawyer to discuss custody.

I actually thought Keke Palmer was too over the top at times.  She was funny, but I would have liked to hear what Condola's mother had to say.  

[DearEvette]

Ok, fun stuff first:

Kelli - Her love for Simone is wonderful to behold.  And her speech about hating kids and them being tiny demons had me rolling.  I even loved how she mentioned having 'died'  to Lawrence who had no clue what she was talking about.  LOL.  Never change Kelli.

Chad - Basically the male Kelli.  So glad to see him.

Lela Rochon as Condola's mother - excellent casting.  They look like they could be related

Keke Palmer as Comdola's siser - fun casting.  Keke has been vocal on SM about disliking Condola, so this was a blast to see her being ride or die for her sister and hating Lawrence.  Also she has some low key Kelli energy that I am here for,

We got an Uncle Ronnie and a Cousin Tyrell in one episode,  Everyone has an Uncle Ronnie and a Cousin Tyrell.

Ok now the Lawrence & Condola stuff:

Yikes, Yikes. Yikes!

I should have known from the moment Lawrence said "I guess my baby was just born."  while out on a date, we were in for a wild ride this episode.

I am neither team Condola or team Lawrence because I can see where each are fucking up and the child is the ultimate loser if they don't get their shit together.  It is rather telling that Condola calls him 'Eli' while Lawrence calls him 'Jah.' They are figuratively and metaphorically cutting the kid in half.

It is clear they haven't sat down and talked about what really long distance co-parenting would actually entail. So Lawrence is under a misapprehension that being a parent means he gets to swan into town on his schedule and expect her to be ok with that.  He's giving off "favorite uncle" energy not dad energy.  Yes, he has a job in another city that he committed to before he knew she was pregnant.  And given Lawrence's employment history on the show I can see why he would feel that he could not pass that up.  Which is why communication and logistics on how this would work would have been crucial.

Condola, otoh, is acting like a entire single parent where the dad has completely checked out.  She named the kid (I am sorry but, Mustafa?) obviously with no thought to soliciting Lawrence's input, she constantly referred to him as 'my child.'  I get that she has trust issues, which are completely valid.  And for a child that age who is nursing it can be really hard to let go.  But she acts like she actually resents Lawrence's efforts.

And underneath all that, they both seem to be laboring under a fair amount of resentment toward each other.  Lawrence bursting out with how she 'blew up my life' is rather telling.  He blames her for getting pregnant (even though he was a participant in the act) and yet expects a cookie for the little he is doing.  While it feels like Condola is passive-aggressively punishing him for not wanting to be involved with her, but wanting to be involved with the child.

I am glad he apologized and the ending seemed hopeful they were finally gonna do that sit down and figure it out.

This was a fascinating episode and I plan to rewatch soon.

Edited November 8, 2021 by DearEvette

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

And underneath all that, they both seem to be laboring under a fair amount of resentment toward each other.  Lawrence bursting out with hoe she 'blew up is his life' is rather telling.  He blames her for getting pregnant (even though he was a participant in the act) and yet expects a cookie for the little he is doing.  While it feels like Condola is passive-aggressively punishing him for not wanting to be involved with her, but wanting to be involved with the child.

Yeah, it seems like Condola didn’t think through “you can be as involved as you want,” and neither thought through what it would look like to raise a kid with someone you aren’t with and aren’t  going to be with (I’m glad they don’t seems to be going the route of putting them back together). I was watching and thinking “I really wouldn’t want this.” Really, these conversations should have happened much sooner, and going through the courts wouldn’t be a terrible idea.

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

And given Lawrence's employment history on the show I can see why he would feel that he could not pass that up. 

I don’t blame him for taking the job - IIRC this was a job he really wanted, a step up from where he was. It looks like he’s building the company (maybe they’re tech investors?). But to your point, this is why they should have talked this out. It seems like he was like “ok, bye” and then didn’t talk to Condola again until the baby was born.

Kelli: “everyone I associate with is thriving.” I LOVE Kelli.

[TooMuchRealityTV]

Both Condola and Lawrence made mistakes regarding Elijah. Condola started it with telling Lawrence he could be as involved as he wanted. Both of them continued messing things up by not having follow-up conversations about what specifically the parenting plan should be. It sounds like they didn't even have a conversation about names. And once the baby was here the resentments grew as Condola became a single parent, because Lawrence lives in another city. I'm glad they are going to talk. If I had to guess, I suspect one of them may have to move so they can actually co-parent.

I'm going to miss Kelli when this show ends. Her toast cracked me up. I also loved her high cousin dressed up like Peppa Pig.

[Lois Sandborne]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Last season Condola acted like she didn't care if Lawrence was a part of the baby's life or not. (One of my TV character pet peeves) She just wanted to let him know she was pregnant.  This season, she resents him because she has to do so much even though those were the parameters she laid out. 

Lawrence in San Francisco is where Condola was when she first got pregnant.  She likely didn't understand just what being a single parent would entail.  She does now and Lawrence doesn't.  And yet, when he might get exposed by taking the baby for longer than a few hours, she doesn't want him to. 

I think this is why the quote function exists. I just came here to say exactly this, and here it is.

I can for sure understand why Candelabra would feel a way about Lawrence thriving while she is confronted 24/7 with single mom realness, but to act like he did her wrong or did the child wrong by moving to SF, or somehow lost her trust is a little overboard. She tried to throw "Keep me posted" in his face, but that's how she brought the entire pregnancy and baby to him. That's the level she said she wanted him at. All I can say is Jesus be a parenting plan and hope for the best for little Mufasa, because his parents are both historically terrible at communicating.

Also, this is about next week's episode but I missed Issa so let me just go ahead and say I knew it was fuck Crenshawn from the beginning.

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Ok, fun stuff first:

Kelli - Her love for Simone is wonderful to behold.  And her speech about hating kids and them being tiny demons had me rolling.  I even loved how she mentioned having 'died'  to Lawrence who had no clue what she was talking about.  LOL.  Never change Kelli.

Chad - Basically the male Kelli.  So glad to see him.

Lela Rochon as Condola's mother - excellent casting.  They look like they could be related

Keke Palmer as Comdola's siser - fun casting.  Keke has been vocal on SM about disliking Condola, so this was a blast to see her being ride or die for her sister and hating Lawrence.  Also she has some low key Kelli energy that I am here for,

We got an Uncle Ronnie and a Cousin Tyrell in one episode,  Everyone has an Uncle Ronnie and a Cousin Tyrell.

Ok now the Lawrence & Condola stuff:

Yikes, Yikes. Yikes!

I should have known from the moment Lawrence said "I guess my baby was just born."  while out on a date, we were in for a wild ride this episode.

I am neither team Condola or team Lawrence because I can see where each are fucking up and the child is the ultimate loser if they don't get their shit together.  It is rather telling that Condola calls him 'Eli' while Lawrence calls him 'Jah.' They are figuratively and metaphorically cutting the kid in half.

It is clear they haven't sat down and talked about what really long distance co-parenting would actually entail. So Lawrence is under a misapprehension that being a parent means he gets to swan into town on his schedule and expect her to be ok with that.  He's giving off "favorite uncle" energy not dad energy.  Yes, he has a job in another city that he committed to before he knew she was pregnant.  And given Lawrence's employment history on the show I can see why he would feel that he could not pass that up.  Which is why communication and logistics on how this would work would have been crucial.

Condola, otoh, is acting like a entire single parent where the dad has completely checked out.  She named the kid (I am sorry but, Mustafa?) obviously with no thought to soliciting Lawrence's input, she constantly referred to him as 'my child.'  I get that she has trust issues, which are completely valid.  And for a child that age who is nursing it can be really hard to let go.  But she acts like she actually resents Lawrence's efforts.

And underneath all that, they both seem to be laboring under a fair amount of resentment toward each other.  Lawrence bursting out with how she 'blew up my life' is rather telling.  He blames her for getting pregnant (even though he was a participant in the act) and yet expects a cookie for the little he is doing.  While it feels like Condola is passive-aggressively punishing him for not wanting to be involved with her, but wanting to be involved with the child.

I am glad he apologized and the ending seemed hopeful they were finally gonna do that sit down and figure it out.

This was a fascinating episode and I plan to rewatch soon.

Facts to all of this.

I always felt that Lawrence was a boring character. The actor is handsome but just does not hold the screen for me. Lawrence episodes often have Chad and this time Kelli to make them more fun.

He is like an unimpressive flower that needs to be presented in a bouquet of hilarity

31 minutes ago, TooMuchRealityTV said:

I'm going to miss Kelli when this show ends. Her toast cracked me up. I also loved her high cousin dressed up like Peppa Pig.

Pepper Pig with the hard R...we don't need those lawyers coming after us. 

Seriously, I almost died when she made her "babies are demons" toast.

Shallow Observations:

Lawrence's apartment is amazing. He must be making mad money to afford a place like that, by himself, in San Francisco. 

Condola's kitchen is stunning.

[tennisgurl]

32 minutes ago, TooMuchRealityTV said:

I'm going to miss Kelli when this show ends. Her toast cracked me up. I also loved her high cousin dressed up like Peppa Pig.

Pepper Pig. There's a copyright issue, the snouts a little off...

I started off as team Lawrence, Condola and her family acting like Lawrence had no right to even be there when Elijah was born and not even asking him about the name really bugged me, but as the episode went on I felt more for Condola. She is the one doing all the heavy lifting with the baby while Lawrence gets to basically be the fun uncle who shows up from time to time to do the fun stuff, I can see why she is frustrated with him. On the other hand, I don't blame Lawrence for not wanting to give up his dream job and it does feel like he can never win with Condola, she seems annoyed when he tries to take care of Elijah and gets annoyed when he isn't around enough, and because she's with him the most she can come off as really possessive of him, which is understandable but still tough for Lawrence. They have both made a lot of mistakes but also have some legit points, they really need actually have a conversation about what co-parenting looks like for them if they want to keep this up. They cant keep this "be as involved as you want" thing going, its too vague and is just making them resent each other. I am glad that they finally decided to start really communicating, they really should have hashed this all out before the baby was even born.

Plus it seems like this is all a part of a bigger issue where they are both still resentful of each other for greater issues, Condolla is still salty about the break up while Lawrence is still resentful about the whole situation and that Condola "blew his life up" which seems like the biggest issue of them all. Again, they really need to talk all of this out. 

[Sheenieb]

21 minutes ago, Lois Sandborne said:

I can for sure understand why Candelabra would feel a way about Lawrence thriving while she is confronted 24/7 with single mom realness, but to act like he did her wrong or did the child wrong by moving to SF, or somehow lost her trust is a little overboard. She tried to throw "Keep me posted" in his face, but that's how she brought the entire pregnancy and baby to him. That's the level she said she wanted him at. All I can say is Jesus be a parenting plan and hope for the best for little Mufasa, because his parents are both historically terrible at communicating.

While I forgot about "you can be involved as much or as little as you want," I do think it's ridiculous for any man to take the "as little involvement" option. Lawrence probably had an out of sight, out of mind type of attitude towards Condola and the baby. He's thriving in San Francisco and living his life, so he doesn't have to think about impending fatherhood until it happens. I thought it was telling that Lawrence was on a date while he has a newborn on the way. I'm not saying he should be a monk, but that's a whole lot to drop on someone when you're dating. It'd be one thing if Elijah were a toddler, but fresh out the pum-pum? 

I didn't blame Issa at all for not wanting to deal with this, and seeing how much of a mess everything is due to the lack of communication, Issa dodged a huge bullet. 

I don't hate Lawrence or Condola. It isn't an ideal situation, but they have to roll with it for the sake of their child. They're both out here fucking up. 

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

And underneath all that, they both seem to be laboring under a fair amount of resentment toward each other.  Lawrence bursting out with how she 'blew up my life' is rather telling.  He blames her for getting pregnant (even though he was a participant in the act) and yet expects a cookie for the little he is doing.  While it feels like Condola is passive-aggressively punishing him for not wanting to be involved with her, but wanting to be involved with the child.

I am glad he apologized and the ending seemed hopeful they were finally gonna do that sit down and figure it out.

 

Yes! I'm glad the episode ended on a hopeful note, and I agree about the dual resentment. I hated this baby storyline when it was introduced last season, but this episode was so well done and it hit all the notes about disastrous co-parenting. 

[Evie]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

But to your point, this is why they should have talked this out. It seems like he was like “ok, bye” and then didn’t talk to Condola again until the baby was born.

He did tell Chad that they had discussed names, so there must have been some level of communication. I imagine it was pretty half-hearted on his part though because he seemed pretty checked out until he actually held the baby. 

I liked this episode, despite not really liking Condola. This is a situation that a lot of people find themselves in, and I think they did a good job showing how fucked up it can get if both sides don't communicate. Both Lawrence and Condola had legit points, but both were also being unfair. I'm glad Lawrence called and apologized, but I think a formal custody agreement would be in their best interests. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

I agree they need a formal custody agreement.  They also would benefit from sitting down with a mediator to help them work it out.  They each really resent the other and with some good reasons behind it. 

I too hate the entire surprise baby storyline.  I think they did a good job this episode showing the struggles.  I particularly liked the split screen of Condola's and Lawrence's lives.  The episode did swing between who was acting poorly between Condola and Lawrence.  Each at times was good and bad.  Neither quite understood what is what going to mean to have a child, but Elijah Mustafa is here now so they need to step up. Their respective families seem to be only making things worse with their resentment also. 

Thing is, while I know people sometimes get pregnant while using birth control, on TV it happens too damn often. We have two pregnancy stories that repeat, the person who wants to get pregnant and can't and the person who doesn't want to get pregnant and does. It's like there is some bizarre, super-fertility that kicks in the second someone starts birth control or is not trying to get pregnant. 

OK, so Lawrence's life in SF.  Um, do they not know how much money you have to make to live like that in this city?  At least in the non-pandemic world we seem to be living in on the show.  Seriously.  People making a solid six figures have roommates.  

[qtpye]

8 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

OK, so Lawrence's life in SF.  Um, do they not know how much money you have to make to live like that in this city?  At least in the non-pandemic world we seem to be living in on the show.  Seriously.  People making a solid six figures have roommates.  

Facts.

My brother lived there for a while. He had a great job that paid well over 6 figures and he rented a room in a house with four other people.

The way Lawrence is set up, he should be having private jet money so he can zoom over to LA to see his baby, whenever he wants.

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

"That's why the baby looked like that." WTF was that supposed to mean? Was it because  the baby was dark-skinned? Aunt Kira isn't exactly not dark her ownself, IMO, so I don't know why she'd be throwing that kind of shade.

A full-dip baptism. Forget the couple of drips on the forehead stuff. 😉

Kira called him Ashy Larry. Now watch her be trying to put the moves on Lawrence.

Kelli came back just like Daft Punk.

I can't believe I actually felt sorry for Lawrence. At least he had the wherewithal to fly to another city to see his child regularly. Most women with baby daddies who live elsewhere probably can't expect that, much less get financial support. But I'm thinking Condola probably should've used an anonymous sperm donor if she didn't want to have to share her baby with its father. Or if she mainly got pregnant to try to trap a man who really didn't want her like that. Lawyer up, Lawrence. Protect your son. (And I'm not necessarily Team Lawrence, I just see Condola as using a innocent baby to martyr herself. Maybe it's just a temporary phase for her or maybe she could use a wake-up call.)

Yep, Issa was smart to stay out of that mess between Lawrence and Condola. Phew.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Joimiaroxeu

[DearEvette]

Oh forgot to add... also funny...

The doctor who talked about 'ugly babies' is this episode's writer, Jason Lew.  I forgot the show did a writer cameo each ep.  LOL

[Hera]

12 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm glad they talked at the end but I didn't hate him saying that he'd take the baby whether she wanted him to or not during their fight.  If they can't talk it out, a formal custody agreement might be the best thing for them to at least get them started on the path of coparenting. 

Yeah agreed. I know of far too many men who put their hands up and say to the mothers of their children, "The kid's all yours," and then turn around and complain to anyone they think will be sympathetic about how their bitch of an ex is keeping their child from them. It was nice to see that Lawrence won't be one of them, though Condola wasn't wrong that Lawrence was dropping in and out whenever he felt like it. After all, he was able to cancel a visit because of work—when was Condola ever able to do something similar? On the other hand, Condola absolutely should have let Lawrence take Elijah, despite the fussing—that was a clear example of maternal gate-keeping. Lawrence has his faults, but nothing that would lead me to believe that he'd be negligent towards his own child… or anyone else's, for that matter.

In fact, I think a formal custody agreement is probably the best solution for both of them. Lawrence needs to be held accountable for his fair share of the parenting, and Condola needs to let him be a parent to their son.

2 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

I didn't blame Issa at all for not wanting to deal with this, and seeing how much of a mess everything is due to the lack of communication, Issa dodged a huge bullet. 

Yeah. Lawrence was always pretty passive in his relationship with Issa and I think she could anticipate that he'd be pretty passive about his future kid as well—at least to start with. And she was right that she'd be in an unwinnable position: she'd either be the one keeping Lawrence from Elijah or she'd be too involved in Elijah's life.

I found it weird that Molly and Issa weren't at Simone's first birthday. Maybe the invitation was only for people with kids (and Kelli)?

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

Facts.

My brother lived there for a while. He had a great job that paid well over 6 figures and he rented a room in a house with four other people.

The way Lawrence is set up, he should be having private jet money so he can zoom over to LA to see his baby, whenever he wants.

My best friend’s brother lives in the Bay Area. He and his ex are divorced but he still lives with her because he can’t afford anything decent/big enough for their two kids, and he makes good money (mid-senior ad guy). (His ex barely works, which is part of the problem.) And the place they live in isn’t in that great a neighborhood.

A woman I know has kids who live out there and she was horrified by how much the rent was on the place she lives in, and buying is totally out of reach (it’s like $1.5M). She’s like “it’s a boring box in a basic neighborhood!”

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Oh forgot to add... also funny...

The doctor who talked about 'ugly babies' is this episode's writer, Jason Lew.  I forgot the show did a writer cameo each ep.  LOL

I cracked up. You know they think it! Not all babies are cute.

[LydiaMoon1]

3 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

I don't hate Lawrence or Condola. It isn't an ideal situation, but they have to roll with it for the sake of their child. They're both out here fucking up. 

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I am neither team Condola or team Lawrence because I can see where each are fucking up and the child is the ultimate loser if they don't get their shit together.  It is rather telling that Condola calls him 'Eli' while Lawrence calls him 'Jah.' They are figuratively and metaphorically cutting the kid in half.

Agreed. Because Lawrence was obviously not around during the pregnancy, I think Condola assumed he didn't want to be involved. That's why she and her family were so surprised when he showed up at the hospital. Conflict arose because Condola continued to treat him as an afterthought, even after he expressed interest in parenting. Lawrence messed up by not taking things slowly. He came in feeling fully entitled to come in and be immediately involved, even though he knows nothing about taking care of an infant. I knew it was going to go south from the beginning, but I really knew it would hit the fan when he wanted to take an infant away (was it for a week???) from his breastfeeding mother. That was never going to fly. Both Condola and Lawrence have to learn to stop acting like individuals and begin acting like co-parents. Of course, that would be easier if they had become partners BEFORE having a baby together. IDK why people continue to bring babies into these effed-up situations. Makes no sense.

 

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I found it weird that Molly and Issa weren't at Simone's first birthday. Maybe the invitation was only for people with kids (and Kelli)?

Over on reddit someone said Molly and Issa were there, they just weren't shown in this episode. If that's true, perhaps we'll get to see the party from their perspectives later.

[heatherchandler]

On 11/6/2021 at 12:30 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Molly and Issa evaluate their relationships to figure out who and what still matters.

Did I miss this?

 

I was on Lawrence's side the whole time.  It is hard to navigate, and he was trying.  

[Irlandesa]

11 hours ago, DearEvette said:

And underneath all that, they both seem to be laboring under a fair amount of resentment toward each other.  Lawrence bursting out with how she 'blew up my life' is rather telling.  He blames her for getting pregnant (even though he was a participant in the act) and yet expects a cookie for the little he is doing.

I don't think the "you blew up my life" was about her getting pregnant. I don't think he blames her for that, per se.  I think it's that she elected to have the baby.  She flat out said she didn't think of him as a serious relationship prospect but now she wants to have his baby? 

She had her reasons and it's her choice but I think it'd be human for Lawrence to have feelings about that.

 

Quote

While it feels like Condola is passive-aggressively punishing him for not wanting to be involved with her, but wanting to be involved with the child.

 

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Condolla is still salty about the break up while Lawrence is still resentful about the whole situation and that Condola "blew his life up" which seems like the biggest issue of them all. Again, they really need to talk all of this out. 

Could someone remind me why you think Condola is resentful of Lawrence because of the breakup?  If I remember, correctly, he was the one who thought they were  in a serious relationship and she told him that he was basically a fling.  Why would she be upset about the breakup in those circumstances?

 

[I Want My MBTV]

If not for the little bit of Kelli we got this episode would've totally blown.  I like looking at Lawrence as much as the next person but I just don't actually care about Lawrence and when these are the final episodes of the series I don't want to be spending them on Lawrence and his baby mama drama.   Heck, I'd rather see more of Molly's dog.  We all know Lawrence is going to move back to LA then he's going to try to get back with Issa and I don't know.  They have a lot of chemistry and an easy flow but I just want better for her at this point.  I don't want her having to deal with Lawrence and all the baggage he brings and they've tried already.  I want them to just be good friends (with no benefits :-)) 

[RealReality]

11 hours ago, TooMuchRealityTV said:

Both Condola and Lawrence made mistakes regarding Elijah. Condola started it with telling Lawrence he could be as involved as he wanted. Both of them continued messing things up by not having follow-up conversations about what specifically the parenting plan should be. It sounds like they didn't even have a conversation about names. And once the baby was here the resentments grew as Condola became a single parent, because Lawrence lives in another city. I'm glad they are going to talk. If I had to guess, I suspect one of them may have to move so they can actually co-parent.

I'm going to miss Kelli when this show ends. Her toast cracked me up. I also loved her high cousin dressed up like Peppa Pig.

The visal of that pig in the kiddie pool with the head on, reclining while he smoked had me laughing out loud.  It kinda reminded me of the Kanye cover with the bear. 

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

Could someone remind me why you think Condola is resentful of Lawrence because of the breakup?  If I remember, correctly, he was the one who thought they were  in a serious relationship and she told him that he was basically a fling.  Why would she be upset about the breakup in those circumstances?

Granted, I haven't gone back and watched Season 4, but my memory is that Condola's insistence they were a fling came after she got an eyeful of him and Issa in that cafe together.  She had never really spent any time with the two of them together and during that scene they were lightly flirting with each and sharing inside jokes and old 'coupley' stories.  I remember that scene because it was the first time I thought 'hey I could see why Issa and Lawrence were a couple' and of course came the romantic episode of just the two of them going on that art walk date. 

I thought that Condola was trying to distance herself after that because she might have felt that he wasn't quite over Issa and I think.... maybe it was the Thanksgiving episode.... she flat out asked if he was over her ... or something like and he never answered.  And then of course a few eps later she announced she was pregnant.  So I don't think it was as clear cut as him just being a booty call for her.  And I think in most cases even if you aren't super serious with someone you are still gonna feel some type of way if you think they are into someone else and you are some sort of consolation prize.

[RealReality]

7 hours ago, Empress1 said:

My best friend’s brother lives in the Bay Area. He and his ex are divorced but he still lives with her because he can’t afford anything decent/big enough for their two kids, and he makes good money (mid-senior ad guy). (His ex barely works, which is part of the problem.) And the place they live in isn’t in that great a neighborhood.

A woman I know has kids who live out there and she was horrified by how much the rent was on the place she lives in, and buying is totally out of reach (it’s like $1.5M). She’s like “it’s a boring box in a basic neighborhood!”

I cracked up. You know they think it! Not all babies are cute.

As a bay area resident I cosign all of this.  Prices up here are bananas and I keep trying to encourage people to move to Texas.  

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Granted, I haven't gone back and watched Season 4, but my memory is that Condola's insistence they were a fling came after she got an eyeful of him and Issa in that cafe together.

Technically, yes.  But it wasn't just Condola who treated him like a fling.  It was the way her friends treated him at Friendsgiving. Didn't one of them flat out tell him that he was rebound after Condola's divorce? And that was the first time he learned she was a) recently divorced and b) not ever intending to get married. 

And 3) that she never even intended to invite him to the Friendsgiving dinner. 

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

I think.... maybe it was the Thanksgiving episode.... she flat out asked if he was over her ... or something like and he never answered.

I don't remember her asking him about his current feelings. I do remember her asking him if he would have broken up with Issa if Issa hadn't cheated.  The answer is clearly "no" but it's a bit unfair as a "gotchya" question. It did happen and they did break up.

ETA: Regardless of the motivation, she set the breakup in motion.  In fact, I reread that episode thread and we were talking about how he had been Tasha'd.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Irlandesa

[Lois Sandborne]

19 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

While I forgot about "you can be involved as much or as little as you want," I do think it's ridiculous for any man to take the "as little involvement" option. Lawrence probably had an out of sight, out of mind type of attitude towards Condola and the baby.

I definitely agree with this, I just also think it's incredibly short-sighted (maybe naive even) to think he would read her mind and understand what she really wanted, or not to anticipate that when a whole living, breathing baby with their DNA is here someone might feel differently than they did about flying down to sit through lectures about vitamins with their ex. Neither of them did any real thinking, and to my mind each of them had ridiculous expectations of the other.

The sister was doing the most, but I cracked up when she was talking about teaching the baby to C-Walk. Did any Crips write in complaining to Issa because Keke Palmer's not really a member?

I rewatched ahead of the premiere, and I do think that Gondola cooled off and tried to distance herself from Lawrence after seeing the chemistry he still had with Issa. Re: the "rebound" comment, it takes a while for me to tell my friends when a relationship is getting serious, and they're all lovely. I definitely wouldn't share my soft new feelings about someone with a savage crew like that. But no matter what her mean friends said about Lawrence, it felt like the Thanksgiving discussion and her decision not to invite him was about protecting her feelings. She drove the breakup because she saw where they were headed, but I don't think that's where she wanted to go.

 

[LydiaMoon1]

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Could someone remind me why you think Condola is resentful of Lawrence because of the breakup?  If I remember, correctly, he was the one who thought they were  in a serious relationship and she told him that he was basically a fling.  Why would she be upset about the breakup in those circumstances?

Because women, in general, are massively male-identified. They have nothing but coddling and excuses for grown men, but hold women responsible for every slight. That's why men get kudos for "babysitting" their own dayum children. while women are vilified for every infraction. I've seen Lawrence praised all over the internet for "trying" (while nothing in his life routine has actually changed), but Condola is the wicked witch for being a typically overprotective and (probably still hormonal) new mother. Most women have no sympathy for other women. I've never understood it. Meanwhile, men ride or die for each other. It's all so typical.

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, RealReality said:

As a bay area resident I cosign all of this.  Prices up here are bananas and I keep trying to encourage people to move to Texas.  

 

17 hours ago, Empress1 said:

My best friend’s brother lives in the Bay Area. He and his ex are divorced but he still lives with her because he can’t afford anything decent/big enough for their two kids, and he makes good money (mid-senior ad guy). (His ex barely works, which is part of the problem.) And the place they live in isn’t in that great a neighborhood.

A woman I know has kids who live out there and she was horrified by how much the rent was on the place she lives in, and buying is totally out of reach (it’s like $1.5M). She’s like “it’s a boring box in a basic neighborhood!”

In some ways, it is kind of cool to see Issa and Lawrence so successful after the show opened Issa in a dead-end job and Lawrence being unemployed for 2 years. We have seen some of Issa's journey and know that it is always a work in progress.

However, Lawrence is portrayed as this successful in a short amount of time is a little hard for me to buy. He has this beautiful luxury apartment in San Francisco and seems to lead a high-end expensive lifestyle.

My guess is that he is working for a tech venture capitalist firm and it is hard for me to believe that passive Lawrence is so successful in a cutthroat industry like that one.

I think he is a smart guy but he has never been shown to be savvy or particularly industrious.

My friend jokes that she thinks Lawrence gets a bit of "pretty or should I say handsome privilege" in his life.

[Sheenieb]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

My guess is that he is working for a tech venture capitalist firm and it is hard for me to believe that passive Lawrence is so successful in a cutthroat industry like that one.

I think he is a smart guy but he has never been shown to be savvy or particularly industrious.

It definitely tracks that Lawrence would take a passive approach to parenthood since passivity is his M.O. However, I wonder what Lawrence was like professionally before he got laid off and sunk into depression. Unemployed Lawrence on the couch lost his confidence and wasn't trying. I do wonder if he's professionally thriving because he got his mojo back, or if he's one of those people who's on top of things professionally, but their personal lives are a mess. 

[HoneyBeach]

I'm always a little surprised when TV and movies show new moms all haggard, baby's things all strewn around the house, being shown as if they are having such a hard time coping. This is not to attack any moms out there, it's just that my experience was so far from this, it's always a bit jarring for me. Is this really how it happens for most moms? I only have one child, who was very much a surprise, I was a single mom, dad was long gone. I was the one who got up for every feeding, I did every diaper change, all the dr. appts., and it never felt this way for me. I had my mom and my sister for support, but that was MY baby. After 6 weeks of maternity leave, I could not afford to take more, when I would get home from my job, I was the only one responsible for all her needs.  Again, I am not attacking anyone, I am genuinely wondering if my experience was the exception rather than the rule. 

[JLaw]

Pepper Pig with a hard R 😂

[Jeopardy15]

On 11/8/2021 at 11:02 AM, Sheenieb said:

I don't hate Lawrence or Condola.

I hate Condominium!

She absolutely “blew up” Lawrence’s life when SHE decided to have the baby and didn’t consult with him. She basically decided that she was having this baby with or without his help and told him he could be “as involved as he wanted”. And then she’s mad at him for living his best life while she’s a single parent. Well, you get what you ask for honey!  

[ShellsandCheese]

I gotta say, I think Condola was more in the wrong than Lawrence. If she didn’t want Lawrence to be involved - she should have got a sperm donor or not told Lawrence she was pregnant. She can’t be mad at Lawrence; they aren’t together and he’s doing the best he can.

Condola is a control freak and sadly, she’s one of those women who will punish the father of her child by trying to withhold the child because she doesn’t think he’s doing enough or doing things the right way (which is her way). 

Lawrence needs to get a lawyer, he needs to establish paternity, and get a legal custody agreement in place that allows him time with his son without Condola interfering. Like Condola can’t decide last minute that Lawrence can’t take his kid overnight because she has trust issues with Lawrence - and honestly I don’t understand why she is trust issues with Lawrence. She’s the one who treated him like a rebound and fuck boi and at least nothing that was shown to the viewer would indicate that he was incapable of taking care of his own child for long stretches of time.  

Edited November 10, 2021 by ShellsandCheese

[RealReality]

11 hours ago, qtpye said:

 

In some ways, it is kind of cool to see Issa and Lawrence so successful after the show opened Issa in a dead-end job and Lawrence being unemployed for 2 years. We have seen some of Issa's journey and know that it is always a work in progress.

However, Lawrence is portrayed as this successful in a short amount of time is a little hard for me to buy. He has this beautiful luxury apartment in San Francisco and seems to lead a high-end expensive lifestyle.

My guess is that he is working for a tech venture capitalist firm and it is hard for me to believe that passive Lawrence is so successful in a cutthroat industry like that one.

I think he is a smart guy but he has never been shown to be savvy or particularly industrious.

My friend jokes that she thinks Lawrence gets a bit of "pretty or should I say handsome privilege" in his life.

Lawrence 100% gets pretty privilege.  

I think those worlds like venture capital and finance has a "look" even in tech.  I dont remember any homely people around that table.  

Little surprised they aren't wearing Patagonia vests, LOL.  

I couldn't even imagine how much Lawrence is renting that apartment for each month.  I have a friend who lived in an apartment by Alamo park/painted ladies.  

I think she had like 6 roommates.  The rent is so nuts. 

It's interesting because I didn't think Lawrence was in finance and it seemed like a capital firm. 

[Rowan]

I guess I don’t feel like Condola was wrong when she didn’t want to let Lawrence take the baby. She was wrong for pretending like she could do it in the first place. Just be honest.  
 

While I felt Condola’s sis was giving Lawrence a hard time, I really think the Mom was giving off welcoming vibes. 
 

I thought the whole episode was well done. 

[aghst]

3 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I gotta say, I think Condola was more in the wrong than Lawrence. If she didn’t want Lawrence to be involved - she should have got a sperm donor or not told Lawrence she was pregnant. She can’t be mad at Lawrence; they aren’t together and he’s doing the best he can.

Condola is a control freak and sadly, she’s one of those women who will punish the father of her child by trying to withhold the child because she doesn’t think he’s doing enough or doing things the right way (which is her way). 

Lawrence needs to get a lawyer, he needs to establish paternity, and get a legal custody agreement in place that allows him time with his son without Condola interfering. Like Condola can’t decide last minute that Lawrence can’t take his kid overnight because she has trust issues with Lawrence - and honestly I don’t understand why she is trust issues with Lawrence. She’s the one who treated him like a rebound and fuck boi and at least nothing that was shown to the viewer would indicate that he was incapable of taking care of his own child for long stretches of time.  

How does the law work though?

If the mother doesn't want the father in the kid's life, can the father sue for formal custody arrangement?

Or are the laws biased towards mothers in such disputes?

In fact, can mothers sue for child support but still lock the fathers out?

Lawrence is trying and he's presumably contributing financially.  But when he made that threat, what is the likely outcome?  Is the family court going to make Condola let him have custody for a week and they would swap weeks, while he's still a toddler?

When Lawrence was setting up the crib at his place, it's his place in San Francisco, right?  So was he going to fly down there, pick up the kid, fly up to SF and have the kid overnight, then fly him back down?

OTOH, when he went down, he talked about his place being right down the street.  So maybe he rented an apt. in LA.

It wouldn't be good for the kid, to fly him up, just for a day or two, and then fly him back down.  Would have to be at least a week.

 

Now imagine how much friction there would be if Issa didn't break up with Lawrence.  Is he going to fly down and then spend time with the baby and Issa?  Issa may not be too into that but Condola would resent that situation even more.

Realistically, if Lawrence wants to be more present in the kid's life, he's going to have to choose between that job and baby.  He'll have to give up the job in SF, move back to LA, to be close by.

Probably what's ultimately going to happen.  And I presume the show is following Lawrence because the end game is to have him and Issa reconcile.  Or at least they're making it look that way.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

If the mother doesn't want the father in the kid's life, can the father sue for formal custody arrangement?

Or are the laws biased towards mothers in such disputes?

In fact, can mothers sue for child support but still lock the fathers out?

Yes, the father can sue for a formal custody arrangement. 

Some courts may be biased toward the mothers in the early months of a child's life but there have been some studies that suggest men who fight for full/primary custody end up getting it quite often.  (Women who end up with primary custody usually get it because the father doesn't really push for it.)

Technically, mothers can sue for child support because the child support is for the child.  Fathers can choose to not be a part of their child's life and still have to pay child support but a mother can't decide a dad can't visit his child.  But, as I said, that's "technically."  There have been numerous stories of one parent interfering in custodial arrangements by not having the child there when the other parent comes to pick them up or other shenanigans.  I'm no expert but I don't think the mother can do that even if the dad is failing to pay the child support.

In this situation, Condola would probably get primary custody unless Lawrence moved to LA.  But Lawrence would still get visitation. 

[Sheenieb]

19 hours ago, Jeopardy15 said:

I hate Condominium!

She absolutely “blew up” Lawrence’s life when SHE decided to have the baby and didn’t consult with him. She basically decided that she was having this baby with or without his help and told him he could be “as involved as he wanted”. And then she’s mad at him for living his best life while she’s a single parent. Well, you get what you ask for honey!  

Eh, sex has consequences. Lawrence was an active participant in the deed, so he doesn't get to play the "you blew my life up" card. Sure, it isn't an ideal situation, and it's not the way he wanted to become a father, but the child is here, so he has to do better. As I wrote upthread, if any person takes the "involved as little" option when it comes on to their child, they're an ain't shit parent. He said, "keep me posted" as if he and Condola were making dinner plans, but they have to figure out their schedules. That's when you say "keep me posted," not when it's about your child. 

I think the trust issues stem from Lawrence's lack of involvement prior to the birth. They obviously never discussed how they were going to co-parent, parental leave from work, etc. Then on top of that, per Condola, and Lawrence didn't refute it, he doesn't call to check on them. He swoops in for the weekend, and then he's back in San Francisco. I don't doubt that he loves Elijah, but parenthood is an out of sight out of mind thing for him. 

The literal and figurative turbulence woke him up in the end, so the communication between them will hopefully get better moving forward.

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Sheenieb

[LydiaMoon1]

7 minutes ago, Sheenieb said:

Eh, sex has consequences. Lawrence was an active participant in the deed, so he doesn't get to play the "you blew my life up" card.

Thank you so much for this. Condo didn't make that baby by herself. If Lawrence was so dead-set against becoming an unwed father, he should have used protection, gotten a reversible vasectomy, or simply abstained. He knows how babies are made. Life usually works out better when you take a proactive approach, rather than relying on the whims of other people to determine your outcomes.

[Empress1]

On 11/9/2021 at 11:08 AM, Sheenieb said:

I do wonder if he's professionally thriving because he got his mojo back,

He seemed to be doing well at the job that broke his unemployment, and work tends to beget work. Like he was positioned for this new job, which seems to be a big step up, because he’d done well at his previous job.

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

In this situation, Condola would probably get primary custody unless Lawrence moved to LA.  But Lawrence would still get visitation. 

And primary might only refer to physical custody, where Elijah is with Condola the majority of the time. I think (and I’m not a lawyer) that legal custody refers to decision-making, and I think Lawrence could get that jointly - like he doesn’t have Elijah living with him but Condola and he make decisions about his well-being (medical decisions, educational decisions, religious decisions) together. Which it sounded like he was more concerned about this episode - that Condola had already made all these decisions and was just telling him after the fact. If he has joint legal custody, I don’t think she could do that.

[RealReality]

Let me just say thank you to you all.  I really love reading all these different perspectives since I haven't had relevant experience in this area.  

Its really to just see condola as being wrong and ridiculous but I suspected there would be different considerations.  

[JLaw]

52 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Its really to just see condola as being wrong and ridiculous but I suspected there would be different considerations.  

They are both right and both wrong.  Definitely a function of not really communicating at the beginning of the pregnancy, but they didn't know what they didn't know.  I'm glad it seems like they are ready to figure this whole thing out.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Lol, this must be one of the most controversial episodes in the history of TV. People all over the interwebs are arguing about Lawrence vs. Condola. Good job, Issa!

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Lol, this must be one of the most controversial episodes in the history of TV. People all over the interwebs are arguing about Lawrence vs. Condola. Good job, Issa!

She really is an amazing writer.

[bilgistic]

On 11/9/2021 at 6:39 AM, Lois Sandborne said:

The sister was doing the most, but I cracked up when she was talking about teaching the baby to C-Walk. Did any Crips write in complaining to Issa because Keke Palmer's not really a member?

This is hilarious!

[DearEvette]

On 11/11/2021 at 8:24 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Lol, this must be one of the most controversial episodes in the history of TV. People all over the interwebs are arguing about Lawrence vs. Condola. Good job, Issa!

What I think is so good about this ep is that the writing isn't trying to slant it one way or the other to show one of them is more right or more wrong than the other.  Even better it is clearly showing each one is somewhat valid in parts of their perspective, but are also very blind to the other person's perspective.  And you know it is effective because not only does it have people debating, but I am seeing even some LawrenceHive people are saying 'hold up, wait a minute Lawrence... that's not right" and some Condola haters are saying 'Well, but she is right to feel that way..."

So yeah, Good Job, Issa!