S02.E20: Go Fish

[Mya Stone]

 

When several members of the Sunnydale High swim team are mysteriously skinned alive, Buffy and the gang take it upon themselves to protect the remaining members, which results in Xander revealing a side of himself rarely seen.

 

I just can't with this episode, guys. All I can think of is this was an afterschool special on steroids gone wrong. 

At least we got a Jonathan moment. 

Surprisingly, Xander in a Speedo never did it for me. Although I did like Cordy apologizing to "him" while he was swimming in the pool. Meh. 

Give me more reasons to like this episode! 

[Loandbehold]

Sorry, Mya, this episode just brings the season 2 arc to a screeching halt. It might have done better had it come earlier in the season, but, really, it seems more like it belongs to the poorer MotW episodes in season 1.

[Mya Stone]

Agreed 100%, @Loandbehold - I just. No. Nope. Not even 16 years later. Nope. 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎04‎/‎08‎/‎2014 at 8:09 PM, Mya Stone said:

 

I just can't with this episode, guys. All I can think of is this was an afterschool special on steroids gone wrong. 

At least we got a Jonathan moment. 

Surprisingly, Xander in a Speedo never did it for me. Although I did like Cordy apologizing to "him" while he was swimming in the pool. Meh. 

Give me more reasons to like this episode! 

1. Snyder and Willow's interaction.

2. The girls' reaction when they see Speedos Xander. 

3. A very effective mislead. 

4. Wet Buffy (admittedly the fact that she's in the middle of being gang raped rather takes the fun out of that)

5. The scene where the guy from Prison Break, tall and muscular asks the sexy petite blonde girl to walk him home because he's afraid, Buffy's role reversal schtick at it's most apparent. 

On ‎04‎/‎08‎/‎2014 at 8:49 PM, Loandbehold said:

Sorry, Mya, this episode just brings the season 2 arc to a screeching halt. It might have done better had it come earlier in the season, but, really, it seems more like it belongs to the poorer MotW episodes in season 1.

It's not that bad, it's enjoyable, we need a sort of palate cleanser before we hit the awesomeness of the finale. 

Go Fish

The Good; Good analogy of the competitiveness of sports, the dangers of cheating and sports stars being feted and misbehaving as a result (does a week go by without that happening?). Very nice transformation scenes and a great mislead. Some great humour surrounding Xander and his relationship with Cordy, Snyder and of course the Angel subplot isn't forgotten (Why Miss Summers, you're beautiful). Love her Diana Prince moment and her stalking Gage. Plus Jonathon!

The Bad; Terrible monster outfits! Also isn't it a bit much to let the swimteam just go at the end? They've already killed 2 humans in addition to gangraping Buffy, what if they decide to start attacking yachts full of tasty bimbos etc?

Best line; Xander; "I'm undercover" Buffy (leering); "Not under much!"

Character death; the coach and the school nurse at the 5th and 6th members of the SDH faculty to die in 2 years

Women good/men bad; Buffy gets sexually assaulted twice, making it the 4th and 5th time for her (if we don't count the Master mauling her) Cam deservedly getting his nose broken in reply to his forcing himself upon her and Buffy's already doubtful reputation ("I heard someone say she was fast") taking a further blow by 'doing it' with the entire swimteam. Nice role reversal though in the girls ogling Xander rather than the other way around for once.

Kinky dinky; Xander in his speedos often considered as his sexiest moment in the series. Although a sizeable minority think his sexiest moment when he was hyena possessed in The Pack which says a great many things about Buffyfans?

Subtext; Xander seem nervous at the thought of being in the steam room with a bunch of near naked guys. By contrast the girls all seem to be very taken by the sight of him in his speedos, even Willow which seems to once again

Spoiler

suggest she's bi rather than gay
 

What the fanficcers thought; Buffy 'doing it' with the entire Mutant Swimteam an alarmingly popular pairing. In the follow up story she kills them all with a swordfish's nose and escapes with Willow and Xander's help. If you like the idea of Buffy or any of the Buffy girls 'doing it' with demons just type 'Monsters and Angels/GOT' into your search engine

Questions and observations; I always thought the guy from Prison Break looked familiar, rewatching this I now know why (although he doesn't have the tats yet). It's a shame he gets transformed, I love the little hints of a relationship developing between him and Buffy, especially a terrified Gage asking Buffy to walk him home after she saves him from Angelus (talk about gender roles reversal, the strapping athlete asking the petite blonde to protect him). Cam reminds me of Buffy's old boyfriend from LA and the type of guys she used to go out with. Now of course she rapidly get's bored of him as he's nothing compared to Angel and the steroids have made him a jerk. Presumably either the coach added magic to the steroid mix or he's another recipient of the Hellmouth Genius effect.

7/10 I think, a pretty slight tale but funny nonetheless

[Halting Hex]

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

It's not that bad, it's enjoyable, we need a sort of palate cleanser

I agree, I've never felt the need to tie every single episode to the "arc".  Better Buffy solving fishy problems than her wibbling over ghostly romances and working out her Angel iss-yews, IMO.

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

gangraping Buffy

Well, they may have had intent, but they barely lay a fin on her.  Coach Marin, OTOH, suffers the most gruesome fate of any bad guy on the series to date:  "those boys sure love their coach".  Death by fish-man gang-rape…that's gotta hurt.

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

The girls' reaction when they see Speedos Xander. 

I actually like that scene even better at the start of it, the girls all working together now, a finely-tuned Scooby machine (and each looking so gorgeous, to boot).  Love seeing Willow's shirt-of-many-colors making a return engagement (from Some Assembly Required) as well.

6 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

7/10 I think, a pretty slight tale but funny nonetheless

Slight indeed:  Jonathan does nothing for me, I've never liked the actress who plays Nurse Greenleigh (she's not the reason I boycotted Two and a Half Men, but it didn't hurt) and there's a lot of pointless running around in Act 4.  Still, nothing worthy of complaint and Xander gets to be the hero.  So that doesn't suck.

Quote

COACH MARIN (annoyed):  Boy, when they were handing out school spirit, you didn't even get in line, did you?

BUFFY (disgusted):  No, I was in line for "shred of sanity" (MARIN pulls out a gun)…which you obviously skipped.

Next time, Buffy, just hit him.  Trust me.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Joe Hellandback]

7 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

I agree, I've never felt the need to tie every single episode to the "arc".  Better Buffy solving fishy problems than her wibbling over ghostly romances and working out her Angel iss-yews, IMO.

Well, they may have had intent, but they barely lay a fin on her.  Coach Marin, OTOH, suffers the most gruesome fate of any bad guy on the series to date:  "those boys sure love their coach".  Death by fish-man gang-rape…that's gotta hurt.

I actually like that scene even better at the start of it, the girls all working together now, a finely-tuned Scooby machine (and each looking so gorgeous, to boot).  Love seeing Willow's shirt-of-many-colors making a return engagement (from Some Assembly Required) as well.

Slight indeed:  Jonathan does nothing for me, I've never liked the actress who plays Nurse Greenleigh (she's not the reason I boycotted Two and a Half Men, but it didn't hurt) and there's a lot of pointless running around in Act 4.  Still, nothing worthy of complaint and Xander gets to be the hero.  So that doesn't suck.

Next time, Buffy, just hit him.  Trust me.

Don't know, whole lot of underwater grabbing action going on. Frankly I'm fine with anything Willow wears except her ghastly yellow tights. 

[Halting Hex]

Agreed that Earshot is overall tighter and funnier, but to make the comparison in terms of "arc", it squanders all of Act I with "omg! [Plotline] is going to happen soon!" that we don't actually discover what the episode is about until the end of Act I and we don't discover the specific menace until the end of Act II. Inexcusable.

Whereas here, we learn in the teaser that the swim team are jerks, that they're bullying Jonathan, but Buffy is (STILL) All.Sad.Because.Of.Angel (just slay him already, honey…you'll feel way better, trust me…) and she's kind of sparking with one of the swim guys.  Oh, and there's a fish monster lurking around.  Swim team and fish monsters, got it.  The further elements, such as the various swimmers' fates and the cause of all of this and Xander's going undercover ("…not under much") and his imperilment all add to this, but we know what's going on without waiting for half of the episode for things to get going.  So, better plot mechanics, I'd argue, even if the other has more polish to it.

[SosaLola]

- Go Fish is considered one of the weakest episodes for its unfortunate placement – right before the finale – it’s not an intense episode like Passion and I Only Have Eyes For You, which is what viewers except now that we’re close to the finale, and then there’s the unsatisfying, comedic way it deals with important issues like sexual assault, victim-blaming and gang rape. 

- The episode talks about “pressure” – they say the word like 10 times in the episode - and it comes from different angles and hurts different people. Pressure on a successful team to keep winning, pressure on teachers to make sure important students get a passing grade, pressure on average boys to be aggressive and manly, pressure on girls from boys to put out, pressure on girls to keep their reputation untainted by dressing modestly and making sure they don’t “do it with the entire swim team.” 

- I just love how a small town Sunnydale keeps getting bigger. This is so not a one Starbucks town. 

- I’ve never really thought about the fact that swim teams aren’t considered as cool as football/baseball teams. Maybe it’s just Xander being jealous. 

- Buffy does have a habit of being fooled by phonies. A couple of lines that reflect depth and maturity and you win her over.

Spoiler

She would fall for that again with Parker in S4.

- As I said earlier, the episode mildly discusses the pressure on boys “to be men” and that if they’re not manly enough in the eyes of society then it is okay to make fun of them and bully them. Johnathan and Xander are not considered “manly,” which makes them an easy target for the swim team and Cordelia to bully them. The bullying and ridicule they face daily fills them with bitterness and resentment

Spoiler

that create episodes like BB&B and Superstar.

It’s interesting that both Xander and Johnathan chided Buffy for saving their life – having a girl save a boy from beating or humiliation makes that boy a more glaring target for extra bullying and mockery. Something Xander and Johnathan would desperately like to avoid. 

- I’ve never really had a classmate subbing as a teacher before, but those kids are so well behaved in Willow’s class. I personally can’t buy it. Teachers already face hell from unruly students, especially in high school, so how is it that Willow is met with nothing but respect – leaving Gage aside, he wasn’t exactly that rude with Willow. In my first year teaching fourth graders, I’ve dealt with far worse than that.

- When Willow tells Xander and Cordelia about her encounter with Snyder, Xander starts being the voice of common people while Cordelia takes the opinion of the privileged. Xander, coming from a poor household and known as the school’s clown loser, obviously resents the special treatment the swim team is showered with. Cordelia, on the other hand, is from a wealthy family and the most popular cheerleader who always had it easy, which is why she’s siding with the “winners.”

- Now Buffy is getting bored with “depth” as Cameron rambles on and on about the ocean. And then she discovered that all that stuff about “no pressure” was nothing but bullshit. Cameron uses lines like “No pressure” and “Just talking” to, as Ross Geller puts, “I assume we’re looking for an answer more sophisticated than ‘to get you into bed’.”

- Buffy is blamed for her own sexual assault because of the way she dresses. I like that the episode’s tone condemns the slut shaming in a subtle way without making a big scene about it – which would have made it less realistic. Though it would have been awesome if the nurse came to Buffy’s defense with a witty one liner. 

- While the swim team dudes are jerks, their situation saddens me not only because Snyder and their coach care more about winning than their wellbeing, but because they’ve been experimented on and turned into monsters without their consent. Just for a stupid cup! And this is more of the show criticism than the episode, but what about the boys’ parents? I know the show doesn’t seem to acknowledge that those students have parents, except for Buffy, but it’s just unrealistic how it glosses over the parents’ issue.

- I’m actually surprised Xander isn’t joining Buffy on her rant against the swim team. He was desperate to have her backing him up with his own rant earlier. 

- I’ve seen a lot of fans complain about the Scoobies lack of a reaction to Buffy’s story, and while it’s a valid complaint, I guess researching the demon eating the insides of people is more important a task than listening to another “Buffy saved herself” story. Perhaps because Buffy is stronger than any guy in school it makes their attacks unthreatening in the eyes of the Scoobies, unlike if a guy tried to rape “Willow” who lacks Buffy’s physical strength and speed. It’s like Xander complaining about a girl sexually assaulting him which I guarantee will be met with laughter and twinkling eyes. 

- I’ll always love Willow’s Oreo analogy and Xander’s “the skin is the best part” argument. 

(I'll post the rest of my thoughts later.)

[SosaLola]

- For a loser who gets beaten and bullied, Xander doesn’t shy away from throwing comebacks. Maybe because Cameron isn’t that threatening. But Xander didn’t fear Larry as well and we know that Larry used to beat up Xander a lot.

Spoiler

Then why suddenly Xander shivers and trembles in front of Jack in The Zeppo? 

- I’ve noticed Cordelia being used to sketch the demons in this episode and an earlier one. I wish the show acknowledged that she has a talent in drawing and it could have been her thing. 

- I love that small moment between Buffy and Giles when she says “from whence it came” 

- “You ran like a woman.” “Practice running like a man.” When you have men and women preaching boys to be aggressive manly men associating strength and bravery to men and belittling women, of course, you’ll get insecure boys like Xander and Johnathan. 

- Willow interrogating Johnathan was comedy gold! I just love her strong “didn’t you?” followed later by an unsure “didn’t you?” And those eyes when she comes close to Johnathan are fear-provoking and a sign that inside the shell of sweetness and insecurity there’s a stronger Willow waiting to be out – did I just make a pun? If so, it wasn’t intended.  

- Snyder is a creepy, creepy man, isn’t he? I don’t know if we know his whole story. He seems to be on the Mayor’s side, knows about what lurks in the night, and is simply evil. I just wish there was an episode dedicated to him just so that I’ll know what his deal is.

- The most important scene in the episode, or at least the most remembered scene in the episode, is Xander in Speedo’s. It baffles me how someone as buff and fit as Xander is nothing but a loser – but Joss explains it in the commentary of Welcome to the Hellmouth, the network wants hot people. So, overweight Willow is out as well as an unattractive actor to play Xander. 

- The whole scene is very enjoyable and not just because of Hot Xander in Speedo’s: we get Gage being Buffy’s groupie, the girls working over the mystery of the week together as equals and friends, Cordelia putting down Xander only to be smitten by his athlete body as he walks in, Willow being as smitten as Cordelia, Buffy’s “not under much” and adorable giggles, and Xander swimming in Jonathan’s urine. 

- I knew that Gage was the guy from Prison Break, but I completely forgot they also got the lead from A Walk to Remember! The episode is packed with well-known faces. 

- I love how NB’s shocked eyes are of a greenish color when Xander learns that the steroids are in the steam.

- I always hated the fate of the nurse. It’s gruesome. 

- Giles’ face when Xander freaks out about turning into a fish is priceless! I love how offended NB’s tone of voice gets when he says to Cordelia, “And thank you SO much for your support.” 

- That coach is basically inhuman. He turns his team into monsters, kills a nurse and throws a girl into the sewers to be raped. All for a freaking cup! I don’t really feel upset about his death. 

- This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think I ever bought Cordelia’s speech to fake Fish Xander. It’s cute and sweet, but… it’s not Cordelia. It’s too sweet for Cordelia to say. At least at this stage of her development. This girl spent the entire episode making fun of Xander and putting him down and now suddenly she doesn’t mind dating his fish version? I can see Anya giving this speech, but not Cordelia. 

- I don’t really get the show’s love for open-ended endings.

Spoiler

This episode is probably the last to show us that. What’s the point of them? Marcie, the eggs from Teacher’s Pet and the Fish Guys will never return to threaten the Scoobies again. So, why? 

[Halting Hex]

I don't think the Fish!Swimmers are meant to be shown as a menace to possibly return; the last scene is to reassure us that these guys (who were innocent victims of Psycho!Coach, after all) can find some sort of peace.   That the sea, which Cam called "a true mother", will now welcome her new children, and give them the peace they've been denied on land.

Of course, given that they ate the nurse, raped the coach to death, and might have tried to do either to Buffy, it's tough to have that much sympathy for Cameron, Dodd, Gage, and Sean, but this wasn't their idea, so I understand that this could qualify as a "happy" ending, of sorts.  

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎24‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 11:31 AM, nosleepforme said:

When I was a teenager, I replayed this scene on my VHS tapes many, many, many times (I guess that's what most other guys my age around that time did with Baywatch). Though I'd argue that the show had sexier moments later on, like

 

  Hide contents

1. when Angel returns from hell in season three, all naked and moist, with a little bit of ass silhouette.

2. James Masters being almost exclusively naked in season six.

 

Stand-alones in the middle of an arc are not necessarily a bad thing, I agree. I, for example, really loved Earshot in season three. This episode was kind of lame though. 

Earshot is the ep I would always recommend to people as the ep which singly represents the series' genius, you don't have to follow the arc, you could watch it alone having never seen the rest of the series and enjoy it. 

[Joe Hellandback]

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

I don't think the Fish!Swimmers are meant to be shown as a menace to possibly return; the last scene is to reassure us that these guys (who were innocent victims of Psycho!Coach, after all) can find some sort of peace.   That the sea, which Cam called "a true mother", will now welcome her new children, and give them the peace they've been denied on land.

Of course, given that they ate the nurse, raped the coach to death, and might have tried to do either to Buffy, it's tough to have that much sympathy for Cameron, Dodd, Gage, and Sean, but this wasn't their idea, so I understand that this could qualify as a "happy" ending, of sorts.  

Yeah, I get that, as long as they stick to salmon that's okay but judging by their previous behaviour? How are they supposed to sate their 'other needs'? I remember DeviantArt had an entire pornographic Buffy web comic 'Sleep with the Fishes' where they come back to 'spawn' with Buffy. 

[Halting Hex]

10 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

How are they supposed to sate their 'other needs'?

Hey, there are four of them, they can party all night, every night.  Yes, to our knowledge, none of them were bi or gay before this, but they'll just have to adapt.  Interspecies dating is just a fish too far, after all.

[Joe Hellandback]

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Hey, there are four of them, they can party all night, every night.  Yes, to our knowledge, none of them were bi or gay before this, but they'll just have to adapt.  Interspecies dating is just a fish too far, after all.

Not for CC!

[Halting Hex]

Now, now, she says she'll be willing to stand by a hypothetical Fish!Xander but not that she'll get physical with him.  She even says she'll understand "if you need to see other fish", acknowledging that he might now have incompatible biological urges.

And as for the four actual swimmers not being attracted to fish!men with fish!man parts, originally, they did adapt well enough to ravage coach Marin.  ("Those boys sure love their coach.")  And he was all man.  So I guess they'll be able to frolic and play together well enough, no threat to passing yacht girls, after all.

[Joe Hellandback]

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

Now, now, she says she'll be willing to stand by a hypothetical Fish!Xander but not that she'll get physical with him.  She even says she'll understand "if you need to see other fish", acknowledging that he might now have incompatible biological urges.

And as for the four actual swimmers not being attracted to fish!men with fish!man parts, originally, they did adapt well enough to ravage coach Marin.  ("Those boys sure love their coach.")  And he was all man.  So I guess they'll be able to frolic and play together well enough, no threat to passing yacht girls, after all.

Good point on the last, I never considered that. As for CC once she's on Angel

Spoiler

Does she ever find a demon she doesn't at least make out with?

[lembergwatcher]

Overall I like all the last pre-Season 3 "Ozless" episodes (from Passion until this one, except maybe for I Only Have Eyes For You). Go Fish was pretty fun to watch for the first time (and all the subsequent times). Sort of break from the dark and dramatic mood of the Angelus crisis.

I remember Buffy playing "bodygard" for the swim team jocks totally made my day back when I saw the ep for the first time twenty years ago.


And sometimes I wish our small redhead (accidentally) saw Xander changing into those speedos...

Edited August 27, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

Eyes up, Willow! Sheesh! :)

[lembergwatcher]

I always dreamed my computer teacher would look like this:

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 12:53 AM, lembergwatcher said:

Overall I like all the last pre-Season 3 "Ozless" episodes (from Passion until this one, except maybe for I Only Have Eyes For You). Go Fish was pretty fun to watch for the first time (and all the subsequent times). Sort of break from the dark and dramatic mood of the Angelus crisis.

I remember Buffy playing "bodygard" for the swim team jocks totally made my day back when I saw the ep for the first time twenty years ago.


And sometimes I wish our small redhead (accidentally) saw Xander changing into those speedos...

Love that scene, as she says she sucks at undercover but it's played to great comic effect. 

On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 8:37 PM, Halting Hex said:

Eyes up, Willow! Sheesh! :)

"Gay now!", yeah, sure dear, not bi at all. 

On ‎30‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 6:03 PM, lembergwatcher said:

I always dreamed my computer teacher would look like this:

What, like the guy from Prison Break? In fairness Jenny wasn't exactly hard on the eyes. 

[Halting Hex]

It's pointed out occasionally that Xander performs rather a feat of strength at the end of Act 4, pulling up Buffy and lifting her out of the sewer by only one arm.  But my podcasters theorize that's the Fish-'roids at work, which I guess makes sense; if he was exposed for long enough to need to detox (via the blood transfusions) then he probably got some of the benefits, too.

[Joe Hellandback]

14 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

It's pointed out occasionally that Xander performs rather a feat of strength at the end of Act 4, pulling up Buffy and lifting her out of the sewer by only one arm.  But my podcasters theorize that's the Fish-'roids at work, which I guess makes sense; if he was exposed for long enough to need to detox (via the blood transfusions) then he probably got some of the benefits, too.

That's an interesting theory although SMG is so slender and petite she probably doesn't way much, even soaking wet. Be good though if Xander had to swim in a story and proved remarkably skilful. 

[Halting Hex]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Be good though if Xander had to swim in a story and proved remarkably skilful. 

Well, we saw in Innocence that Xander retains some of the Army knowledge from Halloween.  Put it together with residual fishiness and he'd be a natural Marine, I suppose.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎13‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 7:47 PM, Halting Hex said:

Spoiler

 

Well, we saw in Innocence that Xander retains some of the Army knowledge from Halloween.  Put it together with residual fishiness and he'd be a natural Marine, I suppose.

But it appears to have

Spoiler

faded by 'Fool for Love'. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[Halting Hex]

Gosh, look at that!

No, not Willow looking very cute.

No, not Buffy snuggling up to Willow.  (Save that for your "study session sleepover", Buff!)

No, not Cordelia's rack. 

No, not that certain part of Xander that's "not under much" cover.

The poster!

A look at the episode reveals that it reads in full "Let's Drown West High".  There's another school in town!

Take that, Fondren!  You not only have to beat SHS in the Cross-Town Body Count Competition (see Some Assembly Required), but you have to look to the West, as well. World-building, even if only in the background.   Cool.

Spoiler

And thus we have another possibility for where Dawn was getting her school on in S5-S6, before the S7 reopening of Hellmouth High.  Huh.

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Halting Hex

[Writing Wrongs]

I just now realized that I don't understand the coach's end goal.

He wants to make his team stronger, but unless they can revert back to humans how are they supposed to compete in high school athletics? It makes no sense. 

Even with the weaker episodes you get good dialogue and character interaction, so it makes up for it a bit.

[Halting Hex]

Hi, there, Writing Wrongs!  Welcome!

I think the coach wanted to win the title and didn't much care what happened to his "boys" down the road.  The result was more important than the personnel involved.  Dodd and Cam going down just means that Gage needs more of the "steam".

I agree that this doesn't seem to be much of a sustainable model, though.  By the time they got to the championships, the squad might have been down to just Xander and Jonathan, at this rate.

[lembergwatcher]

Coach Marin had probably obtained a degree in biology. Good for him. 

[Joe Hellandback]

10 minutes ago, lembergwatcher said:

Coach Marin had probably obtained a degree in biology. Good for him. 

Or just another Hellmouth genius?

[Halting Hex]

Perhaps he majored in Sports Medicine with a minor in Bio?  As educational choices go, it seems to fit with his career.  

(Either that or Icthyology, I guess.)

[Loandbehold]

21 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

(Either that or Icthyology, I guess.)

The study of disgusting things? Oh, no, that's ickthyology. Nevermind. [/Emily Lattella]

[Halting Hex]

Oh, for Hake's sake!

I've been watching this episode for over 20 years (first saw it as a syndicated rerun in 2001), how has it taken me this long to realize that the character played by Charles Cyphers is Coach Carl Marin?

"Marin" as in "marine".    I should have known there was something fishy about that name.  It's not just a fluke.

[illdoc]

Just now, Halting Hex said:

It's not just a fluke.

I see what you did there!

[Halting Hex]

So, wait…Cam's been out with Buffy all night (neither has changed clothes), and he doesn't make his move until he's in the SHS student parking lot?

Kinky, bro.  Gee, if Buffy really had been as "easy" as Cam thought, would Snyder have caught them rocking the back seat?

(Hope the car has good shock absorbers;  Buffy has super-strength, remember.  She probably can generate a nice amount of downward thrust if she's riding top.)

[lembergwatcher]

What if Buffy and Cam weren't alone all night?

Btw, what would've been the name of the 'ship if Buffy decided to give the guy a chance? Cuffy? Bameron? Or Bam?.. 

Wham, Bam, thank you ma'am!

Edited April 2, 2022 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

Quote

CAMERON:  Did you ever hear of a woman named Gertrude Ederle?

Well, even before seeing this episode, I knew that Ederle was the first woman to swim the English Channel.

Of course, part of the reason I knew that was that when I was a teenager, Diana Nyad was making endurance swimming famous once more, swimming around Manhattan Island in 1975, making a failed attempt to swim from Cuba to Key West in 1978, and swimming from the Bahamas to the Florida coast the next year.

Given that Ederle's 1926 Channel Crossing was nearly 50 years before Nyad's feats, I had always assumed that Ederle was long since dead.  Not so fast, however!  "Trudy" was only 21 when she made history, and she lived to be 98.  Born 1905, died 2003.

So, in other words, she was still alive in 1998 and might even have seen this episode.  I wonder how she would have reacted to having her name invoked?

(Ederle had lost most of her hearing by her later life, due to childhood exposure to the measles and later health issues, but of course BtVS was close-captioned.)

A film was made about Diana Nyad last year;  Annette Bening played her, and was nominated for Best Actress™.

Spoiler

Ederle never married.  And, judging from this picture of her "friends" Aileen Riggin and Virginia Whitenack bidding her goodbye, might not have minded over-much…

So if Ederle was a regular watcher of the series in S2, perhaps she also spotted SMG's thumb ring in What's My Line and perked up at that, as well.  Not to mention she would definitely enjoy Buffy smashing Cam's face into the steering wheel, albeit I think that's a rather general response.

(Diana Nyad is openly lesbian and is in the National LGBT Sports Hall of Fame.  I wouldn't have thought that swimming was necessarily a favorite sport with the "home team" [as, say, men's figure skating is], but there certainly have been a number of male swimmers and divers coming out as gay recently, so…perhaps.)

 

Edited July 20 by Halting Hex