S03:E08 Stand By Your Man

[Dev F]

On 10/26/2021 at 10:34 PM, gesundheit said:

I have no love for him but it's too cutesy.

I felt that way about Kavanaugh's "I never like to take no for an answer" bit in his first appearance, but his crude, take-no-prisoners posture in this episode wasn't just ironic foreshadowing, it actually happened. His proposed questions were taken directly from a memo he wrote in preparation for the Clinton questioning: "If Monica Lewinsky says that you ejaculated into her mouth on two occasions in the Oval Office area, would she be lying?"; "If Monica Lewinsky says that you masturbated into a trash can in your secretary's office, would she be lying?"

16 hours ago, blueroses said:

However, I really did not like the final scene. Going with Stand By Your Man was just too on the nose when they already showed Hillary saying it in the 60 Minutes interview.

But the point was that the circumstances had turned 180 degrees from that first mention. She insisted that she wasn't going to just Stand by Her Man, yet here she was doing just that.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

What? Was Socks not their cat? Why did they not take Socks? What the hell?

Socks and Buddy did not get along.  They were kept separately at the White House.  When Clinton's term ended, it was decided the new house was too small for both pets to co-exist, so the Clintons gifted Socks to Betty.

[MsTree]

12 hours ago, Blakeston said:

And IIRC, he claimed he'd never touched her privates. Thus, he was arguing that she had sexual relations with him (by giving him a BJ), but he didn't have sexual relations with her.

I'm probably getting scandals confused, but was it Clinton who used a cigar as a dildo?

[EssieMay]

4 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Am I the only one who wanted them to show Bill breaking the news to Chelsea?

I was profoundly glad they did not. Although she was no longer a child, she was perhaps the only person in this foul mess who has no culpability and should be left in peace.

[Chatty Cake]

Poor Hilary, what Bill put her through was deplorable. 
 

[Spartan Girl]

16 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Poor Buddy. The Clintons were not dog people, and he paid the price, getting hit by a car at only 4 years old. 

In fairness, that only happened because a staff person left the door open and Buddy ran outside. I fail to see how that was the Clintons’ fault. Buddy had a short life but he was very much loved. And the Clintons have two dogs now, so I think they are dog people.

Watching the scenes with Bill and Buddy reminded me of how he wrote in his memoir that Buddy was the only family member that liked being around him during the scandal. Can’t say he didn’t deserve it, but dogs are wonderful.

[CountryGirl]

7 hours ago, Dev F said:

I felt that way about Kavanaugh's "I never like to take no for an answer" bit in his first appearance, but his crude, take-no-prisoners posture in this episode wasn't just ironic foreshadowing, it actually happened. His proposed questions were taken directly from a memo he wrote in preparation for the Clinton questioning: "If Monica Lewinsky says that you ejaculated into her mouth on two occasions in the Oval Office area, would she be lying?"; "If Monica Lewinsky says that you masturbated into a trash can in your secretary's office, would she be lying?"

But the point was that the circumstances had turned 180 degrees from that first mention. She insisted that she wasn't going to just Stand by Her Man, yet here she was doing just that.

Yes to this. The song was perfectly placed. For all her scoffing at the song, including practically rolling her eyes in that interview at its premise of some little woman standing by their man, come what may, she did EXACTLY that. Every. Single. Time. 

[NoReally]

6 hours ago, MsTree said:

I'm probably getting scandals confused, but was it Clinton who used a cigar as a dildo?

Yes, and I was waiting for some mention of that.

Maybe Monica asked the show-runners not to include it.

[Emma Snyder]

On 10/26/2021 at 11:19 PM, BeatrixK said:

She really doesn't look like hillary...but she had her mannerisms, her speech pattern...and that scene after getting back from Jordan's....just gutted me.

I think she's doing an ok job acting-wise, but I don't see any of Hillary in the portrayal, looks or otherwise. I think she's still channeling Carmella yelling at Tony.

On 10/26/2021 at 11:43 PM, gesundheit said:

I have such mixed feelings watching this because Bill was so impossibly sleazy but since Starr and company are no better, I'm just perpetually back and forth on who I'm happy to see get the minor "wins."

The way I see it, it's like re-watching a Super Bowl where you already know the final score; hard to root for anybody when you know the outcome. 

On 10/27/2021 at 7:35 AM, Spartan Girl said:

“Just because you didn’t always finish doesn’t mean you didn’t start.” Double snap!

I wish I could be that quick with comebacks. I'm more Costanza thinking up the "jerk store" thing hours later LOL.

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

When Clinton's term ended, it was decided the new house was too small for both pets to co-exist

I thought Buddy died before Clinton's term was over.

[TattleTeeny]

9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Socks and Buddy did not get along.  They were kept separately at the White House.  When Clinton's term ended, it was decided the new house was too small for both pets to co-exist, so the Clintons gifted Socks to Betty.

I couldn’t decide on what reaction face to use! I went with the heart—Betty seems kind and maybe Socks was tired of the drama.

Edited October 28, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[ifionlyknew]

40 minutes ago, NoReally said:

7 hours ago, MsTree said:

I'm probably getting scandals confused, but was it Clinton who used a cigar as a dildo?

Yes, and I was waiting for some mention of that.

Maybe Monica asked the show-runners not to include it.

If I remember correctly that tidbit didn't come out until the Starr Report was actually released.

[txhorns79]

57 minutes ago, Emma Snyder said:

I thought Buddy died before Clinton's term was over.

Buddy died in 2002.  Clinton left the White House in 2001. 

 

7 hours ago, EssieMay said:

I was profoundly glad they did not. Although she was no longer a child, she was perhaps the only person in this foul mess who has no culpability and should be left in peace.

Yeah, I was satisfied with them showing Chelsea looking disgusted with her father as she walked up the stairs at the beach house.  We get that she is angry, but I don't know if it is necessary to also show us her having it out with her father.  She was very young when this was happening, and mostly away at school in '98.   

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, Emma Snyder said:

On 10/27/2021 at 7:35 AM, Spartan Girl said:

“Just because you didn’t always finish doesn’t mean you didn’t start.” Double snap!

I wish I could be that quick with comebacks. I'm more Costanza thinking up the "jerk store" thing hours later LOL.

L'esprit de l'escalier, as the French would say: When you think of the remark after the moment to make it has passed.

[Ms Blue Jay]

8 hours ago, EssieMay said:

I was profoundly glad they did not. Although she was no longer a child, she was perhaps the only person in this foul mess who has no culpability and should be left in peace.

I can't believe they physically put Chelsea in the middle of them like that?  It seems fucked up to involve your daughter in your drama and to use her as a prop to show what a great family you all are.  Really weird.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I wasn't aware that Clinton had been trying to get Bin Laden. Those parts were more unsettling for me than Bill and Hillary's private drama.

I thought it was interesting they including that angle in this story. I can't help but wonder if they meant to imply that Clinton might have succeeded in taking down Bin Laden (and thus preventing 911) if he hadn't been so distracted by this investigation. 

Quote

When Clinton's term ended, it was decided the new house was too small for both pets to co-exist, so the Clintons gifted Socks to Betty.

I have no reason to question why they took one pet with them versus the other, but I'd love to see this "too small house" the poor things had to cram themselves into. I bet it's five times the size of most people's houses.

[chick binewski]

22 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

The idea Tammy Wynette wanted an apology made me LOL so hard. As if that song is some kind of proud message or something that Hillary desecrated, lmao.

For me, with Hillary, and I think to a degree the writers hit on it (not that I was satisfied with their portrayal overall), the major crime as far as their marriage went with Bill was that he lied. He had the chance to be upfront with her and admit it--after all, he'd done it before, she wouldn't have been surprised and they would've gotten over it again--and he didn't. She apparently was the kind of person strong enough to look beyond adultery (not something I think I could do--I think it's a generational thing, a lot of women from back then saw all men as having this problem), it was the dishonesty over it afterwards that was hardest for her to get over.

If I recall correctly Tammy's indignation had a bit of support across the board bc it wasn't the first time Hillary had made a comment that seemed to dismiss other women's decisions whilst defending her own. Falco played it with confidence but the actual line did not come off great at the time.

(I can say I did not know any women of Hillary's generation at that time who saw Clinton's behavior as characteristic of most men.)

3 hours ago, Emma Snyder said:

I think she's doing an ok job acting-wise, but I don't see any of Hillary in the portrayal, looks or otherwise. I think she's still channeling Carmella yelling at Tony.

I am a huge Edie fan and I think she's giving possibly the best performance on the show but I do not see Hillary here at all.

[CountryGirl]

3 hours ago, Emma Snyder said:

I think she's doing an ok job acting-wise, but I don't see any of Hillary in the portrayal, looks or otherwise. I think she's still channeling Carmella yelling at Tony.

ICAM. And once I heard it in my head, I couldn't unhear it. I think Edie is a very good actress, but not quite right for this part. 

[ifionlyknew]

10 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

ICAM. And once I heard it in my head, I couldn't unhear it. I think Edie is a very good actress, but not quite right for this part. 

As much as Sarah Paulson is killing it as Linda Tripp I can't help but wonder what Edie would have done with that part.

[JasonCC]

That kitchen island was so NOT 1990s: way too current and up until now they've been pretty good at these things.

[khyber]

As I remember it, Clinton was allergic to cats and had to take antihistamines when they had Socks. So when Chelsea went away to school and Clinton was out of the White House, he fobbed the cat off onto Betty.

[Milburn Stone]

On 10/26/2021 at 10:30 PM, peridot said:

It's unbelievable that Starr waited to offer a deal until the lawyer he despised went away.  That's some petty shit.

I wonder if anti-Semitism had anything to do with it.

[chocolatine]

28 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I wonder if anti-Semitism had anything to do with it.

I don't think so. I'm sure he'd dealt with plenty of Jewish lawyers before (and since). If anything, it would have been the first lawyer's tone (calling everyone "c*********" does not convey professionalism) and the fact that he was working outside of his specialization.

Edited October 28, 2021 by chocolatine

[Ailianna]

Or that the first lawyer wouldn't let them walk all over him or Monica. No idea about the replacement, but I got the impression the new guy was someone Starr thought would play ball.

[KaveDweller]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I thought it was interesting they including that angle in this story. I can't help but wonder if they meant to imply that Clinton might have succeeded in taking down Bin Laden (and thus preventing 911) if he hadn't been so distracted by this investigation. 

I wondered that too. But it didn't really seem like Clinton was too distracted to deal with it. His military advisers told him Bin Laden was in the place they were bombing. Unless he had taken the time to go to Afghanistan himself to run his own intel, he'd have no way of knowing they were wrong. 

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I wonder if anti-Semitism had anything to do with it.

From what I had read, it was thought that Ginsburg was out of his depth handling the Lewinsky matter, and that he made himself into a spectacle that was undermining Monica.  Because of this, the family let him go and found more experienced attorneys. 

[MsTree]

16 hours ago, NoReally said:

Yes, and I was waiting for some mention of that.

Maybe Monica asked the show-runners not to include it.

Thanks for confirming...and you're probably right about Monica asking that to be deleted. But, IMO, it would have shown that (once again) Clinton is a liar, because his intent WAS to arouse her in that way. What a dirt bag.

Edited October 29, 2021 by MsTree

[coconutcookie]

This was the least satisfying episode for me. I believe Linda Tripp's and Monica's recollections more than Hillary's. Edie Falco was not convincing as Hillary. She's not as pretty as Hillary and I could hear the Soprano's accent. Dana Delaney would have made an excellent Hillary but is maybe too old for the role in this production. I wish they had chosen a prettier, more alluring actress to play Monica.  Clive Owen as Bill is good and Sarah Paulson as Linda Tripp is perfect.

[Milburn Stone]

28 minutes ago, coconutcookie said:

She's not as pretty as Hillary and I could hear the Soprano's accent.

I could get past the appearance issues but she made no attempt vocally to disguise her Brooklyn origins. Park Ridge is a near-NW suburb of Chicago, and its accent is about as far from Brooklyn as you can get. 

That said, in the second half of the episode, she gave a powerful performance. But I wish they had cast Hope Davis. She would have been spectacular. (And looks more like Hillary, and can manage the correct accent.) Maybe she was their first choice and she didn't want to do it.

[qtpye]

45 minutes ago, coconutcookie said:

This was the least satisfying episode for me. I believe Linda Tripp's and Monica's recollections more than Hillary's. Edie Falco was not convincing as Hillary. She's not as pretty as Hillary and I could hear the Soprano's accent. Dana Delaney would have made an excellent Hillary but is maybe too old for the role in this production. I wish they had chosen a prettier, more alluring actress to play Monica.  Clive Owen as Bill is good and Sarah Paulson as Linda Tripp is perfect.

 

13 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I could get past the appearance issues but she made no attempt vocally to disguise her Brooklyn origins. Park Ridge is a near-NW suburb of Chicago, and its accent is about as far from Brooklyn as you can get. 

That said, in the second half of the episode, she gave a powerful performance. But I wish they had cast Hope Davis. She would have been spectacular. (And looks more like Hillary, and can manage the correct accent.) Maybe she was their first choice and she didn't want to do it.

I remember there was a horrible song about Daisy Dukes (short shorts) that had a line "Hillary Clinton would look good in some Daisy Dukes".

Not that it mattered but she was rather cute back in the day.

It would fascinate me how she could be this tough feminist one minute and then seem a sweet-as-pie headband wearing "Stand By You Man" type the next minute.

Edie is a good actress but she comes off as a more understated Carmella and she can not really hide her NYC roots very well.

I have come to accept Clive as Clinton.  He is not the Clinton I remember but perhaps he is more like what Clinton actually was behind closed doors.

I remember Larry Flynt (porn monger) said that people were secretly happy that we had a virile sexually active president. He actually offered money for anyone with information about sexual scandals regarding the people that were going after Clinton.

My guess is that the Clintons had an open marriage and it was the lying that hurt (wasn't Hillary sleeping with the guy that committed suicide in the first episode...was that ever confirmed?). Hillary had convinced herself that Monica was this pathetic sad little girl who was just obsessed with her husband. She was deluding herself.

The sympathy for her did help her political career since she never really had the natural charisma of her husband.

[gesundheit]

23 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I thought it was interesting they including that angle in this story. I can't help but wonder if they meant to imply that Clinton might have succeeded in taking down Bin Laden (and thus preventing 911) if he hadn't been so distracted by this investigation. 

I think it was the opposite, that they were showing us he was still doing his job in the midst of all this drama. (And maybe a little commentary on the indignity of this whole thing -- both on his part and those out to get him -- in the midst of something like national security being in his hands).

 

I still think Edie's doing an amazing job. I don't want an impersonation, I want a compelling character and I want to be sold on her feelings and her place in the story, which I am. I also am for Monica and Linda (despite my fat suit annoyance). Just not Bill. In fact, Owen's attempt at direct impersonation might be exactly the problem with his portrayal (other that the writing in general not capturing any of his charm).

[qtpye]

1 minute ago, gesundheit said:

Just not Bill. In fact, Owen's attempt at direct impersonation might be exactly the problem with his portrayal (other that the writing in general not capturing any of his charm).

I sort of wish that they had not given him that terrible bulbous nose prosthetic.

Clive Owen is quite handsome/charming but in every close-up, he looks like Bozo the Clown, not Bill Clinton. 

[gesundheit]

Just now, qtpye said:

I sort of wish that they had not given him that terrible bulbous nose prosthetic.

Clive Owen is quite handsome/charming but in every close-up, he looks like Bozo the Clown, not Bill Clinton. 

Totally agree, the prosthetic is so distracting. I said early on they should've skipped it, the audience is only interested if he captures the essence and not his exact appearance, but I think I was probably wrong considering the general feedback about other characters not looking similar enough! Oh well, mileage varies, etc., etc.

[dubbel zout]

32 minutes ago, qtpye said:

It would fascinate me how she could be this tough feminist one minute and then seem a sweet-as-pie headband wearing "Stand By You Man" type the next minute.

Because too many people were put off by the tough feminist. People were up in arms that she used her maiden name, FFS. She added Clinton as a sop.

[Ms Blue Jay]

18 hours ago, JasonCC said:

That kitchen island was so NOT 1990s: way too current and up until now they've been pretty good at these things.

That's what I said about an earlier episode too!  Thank you!  That kind of stuff really jumps out at me.  

Hillary was really cute when she was young.  She looks like Lecy Goranson.  However, Lecy is too young for the part unfortunately.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[MamaMax]

On 10/28/2021 at 12:00 PM, iMonrey said:

I thought it was interesting they including that angle in this story. I can't help but wonder if they meant to imply that Clinton might have succeeded in taking down Bin Laden (and thus preventing 911) if he hadn't been so distracted by this investigation. 

I have no reason to question why they took one pet with them versus the other, but I'd love to see this "too small house" the poor things had to cram themselves into. I bet it's five times the size of most people's houses.

I read it more as - Starr was chasing him with this petty bullshit when there was some serious shit going down.

 

10 hours ago, MsTree said:

Thanks for confirming...and you're probably right about Monica asking that to be deleted. But, IMO, it would have shown that (once again) Clinton is a liar, because his intent WAS to arouse her in that way. What a dirt bag.

BUT! It conforms to the narrative that he was basing his answers on the EXACT definition he was given, which presumably only inquired about BODY parts touching body parts. NOT about other-and-sundry objects used to arouse,  The only time a mouth or a hand touched genitals, it was (supposedly) Monica touching Bill, not vice versa.

Im willing to accept that the sexual gratification was pretty much a one way street for the most part.  

 

[ifionlyknew]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

Hillary had convinced herself that Monica was this pathetic sad little girl who was just obsessed with her husband. She was deluding herself.

Well her husband told her that.  

31 minutes ago, MamaMax said:

Im willing to accept that the sexual gratification was pretty much a one way street for the most part.

Me too.  Not only was Bill Clinton reckless but he was also selfish.

 

32 minutes ago, MamaMax said:

I read it more as - Starr was chasing him with this petty bullshit when there was some serious shit going down.

I remember this vividly. There was so much more media attention paid to this and not the embassy bombings or Clinton's response to the bombings.  

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Because too many people were put off by the tough feminist. People were up in arms that she used her maiden name, FFS. She added Clinton as a sop.

And it's not like she was some radical feminist who was saying death to all men.  She was just a woman who had had her own career and didn't want to be defined as just being someone's wife.  

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

My guess is that the Clintons had an open marriage and it was the lying that hurt (wasn't Hillary sleeping with the guy that committed suicide in the first episode...was that ever confirmed?).

I never believed they had an open marriage.  I think Hillary might have been willfully ignorant about his extramarital activities but I don't think she ever gave him permission.   The Vince Foster rumor has never been confirmed.

[qtpye]

14 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Well her husband told her that.  

The same husband has been a lying cheating scumbag all throughout their marriage.

I think she was deluding herself in that she believed he was telling the truth...for once.

17 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

never believed they had an open marriage.  I think Hillary might have been willfully ignorant about his extramarital activities but I don't think she ever gave him permission.   The Vince Foster rumor has never been confirmed.

I almost wish they had an open marriage because I hate to see anyone put up with this much disrespect.

[cardigirl]

On 10/26/2021 at 11:30 PM, peridot said:

It's unbelievable that Starr waited to offer a deal until the lawyer he despised went away.  That's some petty shit.

 

21 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I wonder if anti-Semitism had anything to do with it.

 

20 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I don't think so. I'm sure he'd dealt with plenty of Jewish lawyers before (and since). If anything, it would have been the first lawyer's tone (calling everyone "c*********" does not convey professionalism) and the fact that he was working outside of his specialization.

 

18 hours ago, Ailianna said:

Or that the first lawyer wouldn't let them walk all over him or Monica. No idea about the replacement, but I got the impression the new guy was someone Starr thought would play ball.

 

17 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

From what I had read, it was thought that Ginsburg was out of his depth handling the Lewinsky matter, and that he made himself into a spectacle that was undermining Monica.  Because of this, the family let him go and found more experienced attorneys. 

Exactly what TXHORNS79 said.  Ginsburg never was able to get the immunity deal, and thought he could handle the Washington legal scene. He said there was no affair and then contradicted himself on television. Eventually, the family, and especially Monica, decided she needed different representation.  Of course the show represented it differently, as there is no corroboration that Starr was that happy to have Ginsburg gone. 

[cardigirl]

On 10/28/2021 at 12:00 PM, iMonrey said:

I thought it was interesting they including that angle in this story. I can't help but wonder if they meant to imply that Clinton might have succeeded in taking down Bin Laden (and thus preventing 911) if he hadn't been so distracted by this investigation. 

 

17 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I wondered that too. But it didn't really seem like Clinton was too distracted to deal with it. His military advisers told him Bin Laden was in the place they were bombing. Unless he had taken the time to go to Afghanistan himself to run his own intel, he'd have no way of knowing they were wrong. 

 

4 hours ago, gesundheit said:

I think it was the opposite, that they were showing us he was still doing his job in the midst of all this drama. (And maybe a little commentary on the indignity of this whole thing -- both on his part and those out to get him -- in the midst of something like national security being in his hands).

At the time the attack occurred, there was criticism that Clinton gave the go-ahead to distract the country from the Lewinski scandal. However, as this article from the Washington Post shows, it won him back some support, after the Hill had been "chilly" towards him during the scandal. 

There were numerous times during Clinton's administration when he tried to get bin Laden. Unfortunately, he was not successful. 

[chlban]

On 10/28/2021 at 2:50 PM, JasonCC said:

That kitchen island was so NOT 1990s: way too current and up until now they've been pretty good at these things.

I remember wondering about Linda Tripp's kitchen. That did not look very 90's to me.

Edited October 29, 2021 by chlban

[chlban]

7 hours ago, qtpye said:

 

I remember there was a horrible song about Daisy Dukes (short shorts) that had a line "Hillary Clinton would look good in some Daisy Dukes".

Not that it mattered but she was rather cute back in the day.

It would fascinate me how she could be this tough feminist one minute and then seem a sweet-as-pie headband wearing "Stand By You Man" type the next minute.

Edie is a good actress but she comes off as a more understated Carmella and she can not really hide her NYC roots very well.

I have come to accept Clive as Clinton.  He is not the Clinton I remember but perhaps he is more like what Clinton actually was behind closed doors.

I remember Larry Flynt (porn monger) said that people were secretly happy that we had a virile sexually active president. He actually offered money for anyone with information about sexual scandals regarding the people that were going after Clinton.

My guess is that the Clintons had an open marriage and it was the lying that hurt (wasn't Hillary sleeping with the guy that committed suicide in the first episode...was that ever confirmed?). Hillary had convinced herself that Monica was this pathetic sad little girl who was just obsessed with her husband. She was deluding herself.

The sympathy for her did help her political career since she never really had the natural charisma of her husband.

I don't believe they had an open marriage and there is zero evidence she ever slept with Vince Foster. There was a scene in this where Linda Tripp was asked about that and vehemently denied it. As for the sympathy, I don't think that actually helped her career. It made her look weak, not really an attribute most people look for when voting. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by chlban

[gesundheit]

20 minutes ago, chlban said:

I don't believe they had an open marriage and there is zero evidence she ever slept with Vince Foster. There was a scene in this where Linda Tripp was asked about that and vehemently denied it. As for the sympathy, I don't think that actually helped her career. It made her look weak, not really an attribute most people look for when voting. 

Agreed. It made her look weak or, to some people. like a cynical monster who can't be trusted who places craven ambition above all else. She probably still could've won that Senate seat if she'd left Bill, and would've shed some of that Clinton baggage by the time she ran even higher. That she is part of "The Clintons™" was big ammunition against her to the electorate (though obviously not to the political machine). I've rarely seen sympathy directed at her. She doesn't have the nicknames she does because people feel for her.

Obviously I don't know their marriage but I've always had the impression that, for whatever reason, they're just actually that into each other. Are status and power part of why? Almost certainly. Is he sleazy regardless? Of course.

[Spartan Girl]

I did love Hillary referring to Linda Tripp as a narcissistic Looney Tune. Where’s the lie?

[chlban]

3 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Agreed. It made her look weak or, to some people. like a cynical monster who can't be trusted who places craven ambition above all else. She probably still could've won that Senate seat if she'd left Bill, and would've shed some of that Clinton baggage by the time she ran even higher. That she is part of "The Clintons™" was big ammunition against her to the electorate (though obviously not to the political machine). I've rarely seen sympathy directed at her. She doesn't have the nicknames she does because people feel for her.

 

She did win that Senate Seat. But, of course not the Presidency. 

[gesundheit]

9 minutes ago, chlban said:

She did win that Senate Seat. But, of course not the Presidency. 

I know, that's what I meant by saying she probably still could've won that Senate seat even if she'd left Bill

[MsTree]

15 hours ago, MamaMax said:

BUT! It conforms to the narrative that he was basing his answers on the EXACT definition he was given, which presumably only inquired about BODY parts touching body parts. NOT about other-and-sundry objects used to arouse,  The only time a mouth or a hand touched genitals, it was (supposedly) Monica touching Bill, not vice versa.

potato, po-tah-to 😜

[AllyB]

On 10/27/2021 at 6:02 PM, Glade said:

Seeing the reaction to Clinton's "it depends on how you define 'is'" was very satisfying, but I was definitely not amused at the way he almost brags about how one-sided his 'intimate contact' with Monica was. Maybe you could have tried to gratify or arouse her in return?

I don't have much sympathy for a rich woman who helped to discredit and defame the working class women her powerful husband sexually harassed. 

Bill name-dropped several senators/congress reps this episode, but not Gore. I wonder if he will show up at some point.

 

I remember all the joking at the time about how Bill's whole defence was, "I am a terrible and entitled lover. I never have the intention of doing anything to arouse my partner."

[LADreamr]

On 10/28/2021 at 1:59 AM, MsTree said:

I'm probably getting scandals confused, but was it Clinton who used a cigar as a dildo?

Yes, and he was asked on camera about that.  He had a visible facial reaction to hearing that question.

[Joimiaroxeu]

So Bill really had no idea he'd left some, uh, residue on Monica's clothing? Or did he assume she'd clean her clothes like a normal person?

If only Clinton had been able to get bin Laden back then. So many lives would've been saved and so much physical destruction could've been prevented. Instead it turned into a "wag the dog" situation--or what looked like one in retrospect.

Semantics FTW. The word "is" got parsed to within an inch of its life, lol.

For a minute I thought the actress playing Ann Jordan was Jasmine Guy. I wondered why her voice was so much deeper.

Has any FLOTUS/POTUS ever gotten divorced after they left the WH? That must be one of the biggest taboos ever.

Someone on reddit mentioned that this episode aired on HRC's birthday. Cold-blooded if that was deliberate.

[chlban]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

 

Has any FLOTUS/POTUS ever gotten divorced after they left the WH? That must be one of the biggest taboos ever

Nope, but Clintons VP has been separated from his wife for years.. Who would have ever guessed looking at those two couples back then that Al and Tipper would bite the dust as a couple while the Clintons remain together.

Edited October 31, 2021 by chlban