S41.E06: Ready to Play Like a Lion

[iMonrey]

Quote

I did not understand why Liana seems obsessed with getting Xander out. We see him thinking he is in a tight 4. She knows at least 2 other people not in her tribe have idols. Why not be thinking about taking Naseer's idol? 

Probably because she sees Xander as a bigger comp threat than Naseer.

If, by chance, the alliance of black players manage to hold it together and vote out everyone else, just like they did on Big Brother, CBS is going to have to have a problem on their hands. They are going to have to do something to make it much harder for that to happen again in future reality shows. Because, in essence, they may have inadvertently started a sort of race war on these shows. I mean, this certainly didn't go unnoticed on Big Brother and if it happens here too it's only going to get more attention. God knows the reaction to The Cookout was controversial. It will be ten times worse if next season the white players start picking off the black players to prevent it from happening again.

[ProfCrash]

27 minutes ago, Gummo said:

I usually hate the twists and turns of "new" Survivor but I am finding this season enjoyable (don't ask me why). Maybe Jeff's glee at getting his favorite toy back after a year and a half is contagious? But I swear his evil glee as he talks to the camera is turning him into Survivor's Stewie Griffin.

I hope Erika smashes the glass if only because the naked misogyny of the so-called alpha males on her tribe is disgusting. The two biggest guys in the game have been targeting the smallest woman almost since day one and for no other reason than because she's small and a woman. Fuck them. I want to see those satisfied smirks wiped off their faces. Also, she'd go from the goat to a group that can't wait to get rid of her to a hero to the others. A much better position, IMO.

Shan is exhausting but I don't hate her, I find her amusing. Actually, I don't hate anyone this season, which is pleasant. Some of'em are damn annoying, though (Tiffany, Danny).

Rickard rocked that puzzle.

They could've edited these two eppys down into a tight 90 minutes. But I guess they have a certain number of episodes to deliver.

The men are targeting a woman because they know that another tribe has been targeting the men. They, rightly, are seeing that there is a group of women who are voting out men. Why wouldn't they do something to try and stem that tide? They had two people to choose from, a man and a woman. Both those people had been in their tribe. Both those people were at the bottom of their tribe. It made sense for Danny and DeShawn to try and keep the man safe because they see what is happening.

If they had a choice between Naseer and Xander no one would have a problem with them sending Xander because he is not a part of their alliance. Danny and DeShawn see that men have been voted out in a higher number, so they sent the person from the different alliance to exile.

I have no problem with that.

And yes, I understand that Erika is not a part of that specific alliance but I can see where Danny and DeShawn would be worried that Erika would be sucked into the woman's alliance. Part of that is because Erika is at the bottom the Blue Tribe and everyone knows that she knows that.

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, NaughtyKitty said:

When they ask Erika why she smashed the hourglass (which I assume she did or why else would they air it), she should respond with "well Jeff, I did rock paper scissors". And see how that flies. Lol

Danny would be all "Excuse me, I think you mean 'Paper Rock Scissors'"

[cherrypj]

That fucking Jeffhanger. C'mon now. 

[DEL901]

All those advantages and twists…. I think that the producers have spent the last year sitting around spitballing options and then decided “hey, let’s do them all”.   

[fishcakes]

I feel bad for Naseer. He was the only one to find an idol who was smart enough to keep it to himself, but because none of the others could keep quiet about theirs, everyone knows he's got it. Everyone on Yellow and Green knows because they knew the code phrases, and they'll tell everyone on Blue, if they haven't already. Also he seems to think Blue is going to maintain an alliance and that he's a part of it, but neither of those things are true. If Blue holds together at all, it will be Danny, Deshawn, and Sydney. Heather probably has goat immunity. Erica's going to be out of it whether she breaks the hourglass or not. Naseer might be able to form an alliance with her and scoop up Xander, but that still looks like an uphill battle.

I'm not so certain that the Shan, Liana, Danny, Deshawn alliance is a done deal yet. It had kind of a Dwight Schrute/Jim Halpert "Do you want to be in an alliance?" "Absolutely, I do" feel about it. I need to rewatch the THs to see who says what privately. Liana is in for sure, Shan is always untrustworthy, and not sure what the men are thinking, especially since they're already afraid of the women.

The fight between Shan and Ricard was something. He was cool-headed and she was angrily berating him. To me, that's the downside of all these new twists; it completely devalues the social game to the point where people can be openly ugly to each other and not have consequences. I don't even like Ricard that much, but I'll be disappointed if he doesn't manage to engineer Shan getting voted out.

[himela]

So wait. Survivor created The Cookout before Big Brother? Wth?

[ProfCrash]

8 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I feel bad for Naseer. He was the only one to find an idol who was smart enough to keep it to himself, but because none of the others could keep quiet about theirs, everyone knows he's got it. Everyone on Yellow and Green knows because they knew the code phrases, and they'll tell everyone on Blue, if they haven't already. Also he seems to think Blue is going to maintain an alliance and that he's a part of it, but neither of those things are true. If Blue holds together at all, it will be Danny, Deshawn, and Sydney. Heather probably has goat immunity. Erica's going to be out of it whether she breaks the hourglass or not. Naseer might be able to form an alliance with her and scoop up Xander, but that still looks like an uphill battle.

I'm not so certain that the Shan, Liana, Danny, Deshawn alliance is a done deal yet. It had kind of a Dwight Schrute/Jim Halpert "Do you want to be in an alliance?" "Absolutely, I do" feel about it. I need to rewatch the THs to see who says what privately. Liana is in for sure, Shan is always untrustworthy, and not sure what the men are thinking, especially since they're already afraid of the women.

The fight between Shan and Ricard was something. He was cool-headed and she was angrily berating him. To me, that's the downside of all these new twists; it completely devalues the social game to the point where people can be openly ugly to each other and not have consequences. I don't even like Ricard that much, but I'll be disappointed if he doesn't manage to engineer Shan getting voted out.

DeShawn might have already known based on what Evvie told him when they went to the island together. even if Evvie didn't tell DeShawn the weird phrase, she did tell him Xander's. I would guess that DeShawn pieced the broccoli bit to the butterflies the the sudden announcement that Naseer is as confused as a goat on astro turf together. Nasser's idol was most likely outed because of the stupidity of the phrases and Evvie's telling him about Xander.

I can see Danny and DeShawn being cool with their four person alliance and request that the first people voted out are women. All Danny and DeShawn care about is staying in the game so that they can win, which is what they should be focused on. I doubt that they care if it is a male alliance or a POC alliance or an alliance with people who have the letter D in their names. They want the cover of an alliance, like most players do.

[himela]

So The Cookout is the path that leads Shan to victory! Now it all makes sense!

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Probably because she sees Xander as a bigger comp threat than Naseer.

If, by chance, the alliance of black players manage to hold it together and vote out everyone else, just like they did on Big Brother, CBS is going to have to have a problem on their hands. They are going to have to do something to make it much harder for that to happen again in future reality shows. Because, in essence, they may have inadvertently started a sort of race war on these shows. I mean, this certainly didn't go unnoticed on Big Brother and if it happens here too it's only going to get more attention. God knows the reaction to The Cookout was controversial. It will be ten times worse if next season the white players start picking off the black players to prevent it from happening again.

It is interesting -- inherent in the premise of Survivor is that people can band together or vote people out for any reason or no reason.

We have explicitly had people scheme to vote people out or to band together based on gender.

I don't know if there has been a "let's band together because of race" in a normal season.

In this one, the seven people of color could form an alliance to implicitly or explicitly get rid of the 5 white contestants. I think a lot of people would find that gameplay distasteful. I am not sure what CBS can really do about it other than to not cast a high enough level of diversity. Again, I would argue that in many seasons past, people of color were selected to be booted, although it was never explicit that their race was the reason for their being booted.

[eskimo]

I don't see how Erika can not smash the hourglass.  Jeff's excitement and emphasis on making history pretty much told me she doesn't have much choice.  It really is in her best interest,  but even if it wasn't I bet there would be a ton of pressure from production. 

[Haleth]

WRT Erica becoming the hero if she smashes the hourglass, how many times have we seen someone do something “heroic” for the good of others (give up a reward for example) only to be one that gets voted out that night?  I wouldn’t trust the unmerged 5 to remember anything at Tribal. She’s a target no matter what she does. 

[eskimo]

If someone catches wind of Liana's advantage, and suspects she's going to use it to take their idol, can they officially give it to someone they trust for the evening,  only to get it back in the morning?  That would be a way to protect it, provided you can trust someone enough and the rules allow it.  Question is, will production let a loophole unravel one of their awesome twists.  

[Haleth]

4 minutes ago, eskimo said:

If someone catches wind of Liana's advantage, and suspects she's going to use it to take their idol, can they officially give it to someone they trust for the evening,  only to get it back in the morning?  That would be a way to protect it, provided you can trust someone enough and the rules allow it.  Question is, will production let a loophole unravel one of their awesome twists.  

Shan just volunteered to hold them all. You’re welcome. 

[millennium]

Maybe I'm just old school but I have an aversion to alliances founded upon race.   As children and young adults we were taught that it's wrong to band together on the basis of skin color, especially as adversaries or competitors against people of other skin colors.   There was a word for that kind of behavior.   That word wasn't "inclusive."

[30 Helens]

This week’s rebus puzzle made me laugh: “Can I have your jacket?”  Who hired Angelina to be Puzzle Master?

The only way I’m going to care about the hourglass is if by smashing it, the game resets to the very beginning and we can start over. And this time, maybe play a game of actual Survivor, instead of Jeffy’s Weekly Twistathon.

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by 30 Helens
Removed part of post to avoid the risk of instigating.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, eskimo said:

If someone catches wind of Liana's advantage, and suspects she's going to use it to take their idol, can they officially give it to someone they trust for the evening,  only to get it back in the morning?  That would be a way to protect it, provided you can trust someone enough and the rules allow it.  Question is, will production let a loophole unravel one of their awesome twists.  

Shan: "Ok Ricard, I know I got in trouble with this before, but I want to rebuild our trust. Liana might ask me for my idol at tribal tonight, so I'm going to give it to you to hold."

Ricard [looks at camera like Jimmy Fallon's SNL DJ character]: "Oh, you will? Great!"

[Pepper the Cat]

What is this "Cookout" that people are referring to?

[Melina22]

10 minutes ago, Pepper the Cat said:

What is this "Cookout" that people are referring to?

On the latest Big Brother season, which was filmed after Survivor 41 but aired before it, a group of 6 Black players formed an alliance on day one or two, and called it the Cookout. Their goal was to stick together to the very end, thus ensuring the first Black winner of Big Brother. Their plan worked perfectly but stirred up tons of controversy online. 

[himela]

15 minutes ago, Pepper the Cat said:

What is this "Cookout" that people are referring to?

On this summer's Big Brother the 6 black people in the game made an alliance on day 1 named The Cookout and they actually managed to get to the final 6 and crown the first ever black winner.

[Hera]

I'm enjoying this season, even with all the unnecessary twists. There are no outrageous assholes and we're getting shown a little bit of what most people are thinking—only Heather remains invisible. I think Shan and Ricard are both right to be wary of each other. Ricard's argument was very disingenuous. He absolutely did take the advantage with the understanding that he was holding it temporarily and that Shan expected it back. And if he's right that it doesn't matter who holds the extra vote advantage, then why is it such a problem for him to let Shan hold it? I don't blame him for trying, though. However, at the same time, it seemed like Shan wanted it back sooner than she said she would. Ricard wasn't wrong about her seeming overanxious about the fact that he had it and she didn't.

We also saw that Shan's social dominance may have been an Ua-only phenomenon when she outed Liana's advantage in front of Tiffany. That misstep became even more mystifying to me as the episode went on and Shan showed no interest in working with Tiffany. I think it must have been pure overeagerness to find what Liana got that kept her from being able to wait until she could get Liana completely alone. And now she has unwittingly soured Tiffany on Liana, although it might take a little while before Liana sees that.

And now, finally, Erika: I think she'd be an idiot not to break the hourglass. The simple reason is that pretty much any time you have a chance to make yourself safe from the vote at tribal council, you should take it. Furthermore, this is a now or never advantage, rather than one that she can play at any time up to F5 or F6, so there's no need to think about whether or not this is the optimal moment, like you do with a hidden immunity idol or extra vote. When you add to that the fact that she's been separated from everyone for two days, so has had no opportunity to find a new alliance; the fact that she said outright before she left for Exile that she knew they'd pick Naseer over her, so must at least have suspicions that she might not have been in a great position on Luvu, it's all further motivation to change the winning team to the one she was on. She really needs time to find an alliance, and being immune for that first vote gets her that.

Finally, she doesn't owe the actual winners anything here and I don't think she'd buy any goodwill by not screwing them over. I think everyone (both the winning team and the losing one) would just be baffled by the decision and it would actually make it harder for her to find allies, since she'd reveal herself to be an unpredictable player who makes high-risk/low-reward moves. The losing team, of course, would have the added resentment that she didn't save herself and therefore them. If she doesn't break the hourglass, then she's definitely the first post-merge boot.

[Kawaiiko]

3 hours ago, fishcakes said:

It had kind of a Dwight Schrute/Jim Halpert "Do you want to be in an alliance?" "Absolutely, I do" feel about it.

Let's hope someone dyes their hair with peroxide next. That's politics, baby!

[Lamima]

2 hours ago, eskimo said:

I don't see how Erika can not smash the hourglass.  Jeff's excitement and emphasis on making history pretty much told me she doesn't have much choice.  It really is in her best interest,  but even if it wasn't I bet there would be a ton of pressure from production. 

Plus she said the lamb to lion thing and the episode title is 'ready to play like a lion'. So...if she doesn't smash it then she clearly is no lion. Will be such a let down. 

If she doesn't do it I suspect Xander will go home after Liana steals his idol. If she does smash it then I suspect it will be Sydney, Ricard or Evvie in that order. As I do think we will have cookout 2.0 (or is it 1.0 and BB is 2.0?). Plus Naseer and Deshawn have some sort of advantage. Though Liana could steal Naseer's. But he is a POC so she likely will steal Xander's at some point. 

[Matty]

That was a really good episode. I can't wait for Part 2 to see what Erika chooses to do and why. I don't think I'm a good Survivor strategist because I have no idea which option she should choose. I see pros and cons for her with both options. I'm really intrigued by what she will do. Maybe I'm a sucker for an underdog but I'm rooting for her. Shan not so much.

Watching Danny perform in the physical parts of the challenges is a joy to watch. He is so athletically gifted. I know he's a former NFL player but that fact does not make it a given that every former professional athlete would be as good as he is at competing in these types of challenges. He's strong and graceful at the same time.  

Edited October 28, 2021 by Matty

[MerBearHou]

1 minute ago, Matty said:

Watching Danny perform in the physical parts of the challenges is a joy to watch. He is so athletically gifted. I know he's a former NFL player but that fact does not make it a given that every former professional athlete would be as good as he is at competing in these types of challenges. He's strong and graceful at the same time.  

Totally agree with this.  Danny is wonderful to watch.  Strong and graceful is a perfect way to put it.  

[blackwing]

I'm curious about exactly what that rock was made out of.  Surely it wasn't an actual rock.  Was it a wood frame with plaster around it?  It was strong enough to withstand weight, but I'm curious as to how heavy it actually was.  

Just so I am clear about the hourglass.  Danny and Deshawn's team won the reward and are safe from Tribal Council.  The other 5 have to compete in the Immunity Challenge.  Everyone votes, but they will only have the four non-immunity yellow people to choose from.

Erika can "Turn Back Time".  First off, not really.  Turning back time would mean that the food comes out of those people's stomachs and into the stomachs of the others.  It's basically a Reversal of Fortune.  Did Jeffy imagine Cher popping up on the island to warble one of her signature tunes?  Does he hate Jeremy Irons and Glenn Close or didn't think they would want a trip to Fiji?

So Erika can enact the Reversal of Fortune.  If she does, then Danny and Deshawn's team are not immune.  All six of them will compete in the Immunity Challenge.  Everyone votes, and can only vote for one of the five that didn't win Immunity.  So one of Danny, Deshawn, Sydney, Evvie, Ricard or Naseer goes home. 

If she chooses not to use it... then she joins the Xander Five and competes in the Immunity Challenge and is at risk.

Why on earth would she NOT choose to use it?  If she uses it, then she is safe from Tribal.  Sure, Danny and Deshawn might be mad at her, but she already knows she is on the bottom.  She can form new bonds with the Xander Five.  If she doesn't use it, she has to win Immunity, will probably lose, and Danny and Deshawn will vote her out as planned.

I don't see any reason for her not to use it.  

On 10/27/2021 at 8:01 PM, mojoween said:

Erika’s power is way too much.

Well, she had to spend two days and two nights alone with nothing but rice, so I would hope she gets some kind of benefit from that.  I actually thought she would come away with some kind of Super Advantage... like an Idol that can be used twice.  That would teach Danny and Deshawn a lesson, they thought they were sending her away to eliminate her and now she has even more power.

On 10/27/2021 at 8:11 PM, Melina22 said:

I felt sorry for all of them pushing the giant ball in the zillion degree heat, but probably mostly for Xander. He gets stuck doing all the heavy lifting (literally) while his teammates plot to get rid of him. 

 

On 10/27/2021 at 8:15 PM, MerBearHou said:

I was so afraid that heavy, gigantic ball was going to roll back into the hole onto the people in the hole.  Limbs would have been broken (or worse).  

I felt most cheated that we didn't get a scene of seeing Tiffany struggle to get onto the ball and then to pull herself up on the platform.  It cut from the first person to Heather who was third and completely skipped Tiffany who must have been second.

On 10/27/2021 at 8:24 PM, vb68 said:

And all his talking directly to the camera so much with this semi-crazed look is starting to creep me out. 

He's creeped me out for years.  This season is especially always about him.  He purposely didn't cut his hair beforehand so he can look like he is "roughing it" with them.  His narration to the camera, the shot that included his cameraman and his "oh this is going to be so exciting, watch what is about to happen, here they come" narration reminded me a lot of when Geraldo Rivera opened up Al Capone's empty vault on live TV.  A lot of ballyhoo about absolutely nothing.  It's the same here.  NOTHING is ever as exciting on this show as Jeffy thinks it is.

On 10/27/2021 at 11:38 PM, keke23 said:

Because its my personal opinion and I get sick of the fear of the almighty all girl alliances that never amount to anything on Survivor and Big Brother. 

That almighty girl alliance on Yellow has eliminated Abraham and Voce and poor Xander had his neck on the block and didn't even know it.  He only got saved because of this merge.

On 10/28/2021 at 12:16 AM, eskimo said:

So are Erika and Naseer not considered POC?  I don't mind the 4 aligning, but them talking about always sticking out I would think they'd at least put Naseer and Erika on the periphery of their alliance.  They specifically said POC, but what they meant was black people.  Just say that then.  I have no doubt Erika and Naseer know exactly what it's like to be the only one who looks like you or talks like you.  Especially Naseer, who speaks with a thick accent.  IMO, by excluding other people of color they are doing what they claim to be rising up against.  Asian, Indian, and Middle Eastern people have been less represented than even black people have.  So their talk of bonding over being different, while excluding the POC who are different from them just fell flat for me.  I don't dislike them though (except Shan really bugs in a lot of ways).  Of the 4 I'm rooting for Danny or Liana so far.  Sydney can't go fast enough.  

 

On 10/28/2021 at 7:55 AM, ProfCrash said:

My observations only here. I have notice in my area that there is a difference in how newer immigrants of color are referred to then Blacks who have generational roots in the US. Various Asian cultures have a different experience in the US, a fair amount of it is not good but still different and as such, Asian Americans are treated/discussed differently. I am well aware that there are many different Asian Cultures but am sort of lumping them together for this brief discussion. The stereotypes associated with Asian immigrants are very different then the stereotypes associated with Blacks in the US. While both groups have had their struggles, and both have seen an increase in hate crimes and problematic language recently, they are different struggles and there are very different outcomes. I tend to think that many people in the US assume that POC applies to Blacks and Hispanics because of the generational poverty that both groups struggle with vs the Asian cultures who have different cultural issues they deal with. For example, very broadly speaking, Blacks and Hispanics are dealing with issues of the educational gaps and housing because of systemic racism that has influenced schools and real estate. Asian cultures are dealing with changes to schools gifted programs that many Asians deem racist because Asians are deemed to be too successful in school and that has led to a decrease in the number of White kids in these programs.

Like I said, my observations only.

 

23 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I'm not so certain that the Shan, Liana, Danny, Deshawn alliance is a done deal yet. It had kind of a Dwight Schrute/Jim Halpert "Do you want to be in an alliance?" "Absolutely, I do" feel about it. I need to rewatch the THs to see who says what privately. Liana is in for sure, Shan is always untrustworthy, and not sure what the men are thinking, especially since they're already afraid of the women.

I agree that when Shan talked about an alliance of "People of Colour" she only meant "Black people".  Somehow she seems to think that by calling it an alliance of "People of colour" that it makes it more understandable than if she had said "We want someone who is black to win".  Erika, Naseer, and Ricard are also "people of colour" / racial minorities and yet they didn't get included in this alliance.

I think these four are a real alliance and they already seem so tight.  Look at that shot of them sitting serenely, with Liana and Shan comfortably sitting in closeness back to back with knees hunched up.  And Danny and Deshawn comfortably sitting nearby.  That shot said to me "we feel so close, even though we only know each other for 12 days, it feels so right that we found each other in this game".

The interesting thing is that Liana didn't have any issues getting rid of Abraham and Shan didn't have any issues getting rid of JD.  I guess this all started when the two women met each other on that hike.  When the four of them were on the beach, one of them said something about how it was so right for them to bond together as black people, "especially after this past year", presumably referring to BLM?  

I disagree with the comment upthread about how the only racism that Asians have to deal with relates to not getting into good schools because they are too smart.  Sorry, but I think that's ridiculous.  According to the FBI, hate crimes against Asians increased 73% in the past year, compared to 13% increase across the population in general.  I do find it odd that Shan calls it a POC alliance but excludes others that have probably experienced just as much exclusion in their lives as much as the four of them may have.

I have no idea why Danny seems to hate/fear Erika so much.  Why Erika?  What has she done in this game that could be considered that threatening that he has mentioned getting her out multiple times?  Why wouldn't he target one of the other women who seem more dangerous, like Evvie or Sydney?

My hope is that Shan feels like she doesn't need Ricard anymore after finding her "POC alliance" and sets the target on him, since he may be the only one that knows about her two advantages.

Edited October 29, 2021 by blackwing

[bunnyface]

I dunno.  On the one hand, I hope Erika doesn't smash the hour glass.  I feel like it's taking away a fair-and-square win.  To me, it's on the same level as playing your idol after the votes against you have been read or sitting out the whole game on exile, then coming in and winning at the last minute.  It certainly sucks for Erika, but the blue tribe won and winning is supposed to be object of the game.  Not "win, and we'll think about awarding the win to you."  

On the other hand, I would smash that thing to smithereens before the words were half out of Jeff's mouth.  So yeah, I recognize I don't like it, but I wouldn't be able to logically piece all that together in the moment and I would go for it. 

Either way, I fear that Naseer gets screwed and he's about the only one I like.  So naturally, he's a goner.

[Chicago Redshirt]

30 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm curious about exactly what that rock was made out of.  Surely it wasn't an actual rock.  Was it a wood frame with plaster around it?  It was strong enough to withstand weight, but I'm curious as to how heavy it actually was.  

Just so I am clear about the hourglass.  Danny and Deshawn's team won the reward and are safe from Tribal Council.  The other 5 have to compete in the Immunity Challenge.  Everyone votes, but they will only have the four non-immunity yellow people to choose from.

Erika can "Turn Back Time".  First off, not really.  Turning back time would mean that the food comes out of those people's stomachs and into the stomachs of the others.  It's basically a Reversal of Fortune.  Did Jeffy imagine Cher popping up on the island to warble one of her signature tunes?  Does he hate Jeremy Irons and Glenn Close or didn't think they would want a trip to Fiji?

So Erika can enact the Reversal of Fortune.  If she does, then Danny and Deshawn's team are not immune.  All five of them will compete in the Immunity Challenge.  Everyone votes, and can only vote for one of the four that didn't win Immunity.  So one of Danny, Deshawn, Sydney, Evvie, Ricard or Naseer goes home. 

If she chooses not to use it... then she joins the Xander Five and competes in the Immunity Challenge and is at risk.

Why on earth would she NOT choose to use it?  If she uses it, then she is safe from Tribal.  Sure, Danny and Deshawn might be mad at her, but she already knows she is on the bottom.  She can form new bonds with the Xander Five.  If she doesn't use it, she has to win Immunity, will probably lose, and Danny and Deshawn will vote her out as planned.

I don't see any reason for her not to use it.  

TLDR: The twist has a short-term reward but a huge medium/long-term drawback.

Using the twist guarantees her safety for one week but likely means that she will be booted at the earliest opportunity thereafter, and also almost certainly means that she would not get any votes from the six people she puts at risk if she somehow makes it to the jury.

Not using the twist means that she can hope that the Safe Six would not boot her at least for a while, as they can potentially go Blue Tribe Strong, have some gratitude to her for not putting them at risk, and/or they can perceive her as a non-factor to win. After all, she would have alienated the five people who (essentially) she kept on the line, so she would be unlikely to get their votes. Indeed, not TBT might make people consider her a goat. 

Meanwhile, I think she could spin the decision to not TBT better than the decision to TBT. At least, putting myself in the position of a player, I would be forever PISSED at a player whose unilateral decision made me lose an immunity I'd won fair and square. But I could get over letting things take the course that they were going to anyway. Intervention to make something bad happen seems a lot worse to me than non-interference to allow a bad thing to happen that was going to happen anyway.

Erika knows she's on the bottom, but that's different from knowing that her former tribemates have been scheming to get rid of her. 

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, NaughtyKitty said:

When they ask Erika why she smashed the hourglass (which I assume she did or why else would they air it), she should respond with "well Jeff, I did rock paper scissors". And see how that flies. Lol

She would shoot up to like at least a Top 10 fave ever for me if she did that.

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

If, by chance, the alliance of black players manage to hold it together and vote out everyone else, just like they did on Big Brother, CBS is going to have to have a problem on their hands. 

They let the white people do it.

5 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I'm not so certain that the Shan, Liana, Danny, Deshawn alliance is a done deal yet. It had kind of a Dwight Schrute/Jim Halpert "Do you want to be in an alliance?" "Absolutely, I do" feel about it. I need to rewatch the THs to see who says what privately. Liana is in for sure, Shan is always untrustworthy, and not sure what the men are thinking, especially since they're already afraid of the women.

I'm pretty sure Danny didn't get a confessional about it at all, which made me think he probably didn't seem committed to it during his confessional about it and they wanted to keep that out since the other 3 gave positive confessionals about it.

[RunningMarket]

Mr. Market noticed that both teams were pushing the ball from closer to the top at first, instead of trying to get momentum and leverage from the bottom to push it out of the hole. From the top all they succeed in doing is pushing further into the ground.

Also, while food is good - guaranteed those 6 are going to be feeling it later. All that bread, cheese, fruit... they won't be lying when they say they are headed to the "facilities area".

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, eskimo said:

If someone catches wind of Liana's advantage, and suspects she's going to use it to take their idol, can they officially give it to someone they trust for the evening,  only to get it back in the morning?  That would be a way to protect it, provided you can trust someone enough and the rules allow it.  Question is, will production let a loophole unravel one of their awesome twists.  

One thought which had crossed my mind: what if Xander is feeling so comfortable with his former tribe’s (nonexistent) support that he doesn’t even take his idol with him to TC?  THAT exchange would be hilarious:

Liana: Jeff, I have an advantage I want to play.  This advantage says I can ask one player if they have an idol or advantage, and if they have one they have to give it to me.  So - Xander, do you have an idol?

Xander: No.

Liana: WTF…!?!?  I know you have an idol!

Xander: Check my bag if you want - you won’t find anything.

And yet another thought: does Liana have to specify Advantage or Idol when she makes her request?  Because that would be even funnier - Liana going batshit bugging Xander for an idol he doesn’t have, while his extra vote advantage is burning a hole in his pocket.  😆

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Well, she had to spend two days and two nights alone with nothing but rice, so I would hope she gets some kind of benefit from that.  I actually thought she would come away with some kind of Super Advantage... like an Idol that can be used twice.  That would teach Danny and Deshawn a lesson, they thought they were sending her away to eliminate her and now she has even more power.

A better twist - IMHO, anyway - would’ve been to give Erika two individual immunity idols.  😈

[Melina22]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Erika can "Turn Back Time".  First off, not really.  Turning back time would mean that the food comes out of those people's stomachs and into the stomachs of the others.  It's basically a Reversal of Fortune.  Did Jeffy imagine Cher popping up on the island to warble one of her signature tunes?  Does he hate Jeremy Irons and Glenn Close or didn't think they would want a trip to Fiji?

Eeeewwww and 🤣🤣

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I think these four are a real alliance and they already seem so tight.  Look at that shot of them sitting serenely, with Liana and Shan comfortably sitting in closeness back to back with knees hunched up.  And Danny and Deshawn comfortably sitting nearby.  That shot said to me "we feel so close, even though we only know each other for 12 days, it feels so right that we found each other in this game".

This is so true, and it seemed rooted, as you mentioned, in the instant good chemistry between Shan and Liana. This is the kind of almost magical thing that keeps me watching Survivor and BB, special moments and instant personal bonds, sometimes between the most unlikely people. It's a part of real life we all experience but rarely get to talk about or analyze. 

Not to get too off topic, but when I see things like completely odd couples instantly bonding, or small groups of paranoid people bonding over their shared paranoia, I always think of various small, enclosed courts and societies in history, like the court of Henry VIII or the sultans of the Ottoman Empire. It was just nonstop secret alliances, backstabbings, frontstabbings, love affairs, conspiracies, etc. Basically Survivor and BB only with fewer comps and more death. I'm not making it up -this really is the reason I love these shows. They combine three of my passions: history, psychology and nosiness. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Melina22

[PhoneCop]

Fuck it up, Erika! This season's already in a handbasket to Edge of Extinction-level hell, so you might as well hit the express button. You're in a no-win position regardless, but at least you can guarantee your safety and live to play another day. Even if it looks like a bad long-term idea today, who knows what tomorrow's twist will bring?

 

[RunningMarket]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

And yet another thought: does Liana have to specify Advantage or Idol when she makes her request?  Because that would be even funnier - Liana going batshit bugging Xander for an idol he doesn’t have, while his extra vote advantage is burning a hole in his pocket.  😆

A better twist - IMHO, anyway - would’ve been to give Erika two individual immunity idols.  😈

The way I interpreted her comments was that she does have to specify when she asks, and she only gets one shot, so she's got to get the wording right.

Edited October 29, 2021 by RunningMarket

[Valerie]

I like Erika and I don't get where all the hate is coming from. Maybe I'm biased because she's a fellow Canadian, but I don't think she's played the game any more aggressively than anyone else. I hope she turns back time to save herself and earn some points with the people she saved as well as a result.

It's satisfying to see Shan down a peg and now a small fish in a big pond. I still want her and Ricard gone.

[millennium]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

They let the white people do it.

Was there a situation where the white people specifically stated that they were forming an alliance because they are white?

[PaperTree]

23 hours ago, Haleth said:

Probst had way too much time on his hands during the pandemic when he came up with all these convoluted twists. It’s too much. Sometimes less is more.

I’m guessing Erica chickens out and doesn’t switch things up. 

Circle gets the square!

[watchingtvaddict]

22 hours ago, NYGirl said:

First of all everybody this season has a big mouth!  Why they are telling people what they have is beyond me.  But maybe this is a good thing and the show will realize how stupid all these idols/advantages are and this may evolve into the next seasons.  (Sort of like how the Big Brother "twists" always fail)

I get even more angry at Rickard and Shan due to the fact that neither of them even won their advantages.  They were stolen from JD and Genie!

 

I need there to be a penalty for blabbing. 

If you tell anyone about your advantage you lose it/ lose your vote at the next tribal. 

 

 

[Fake Jan Brady]

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't know if there has been a "let's band together because of race" in a normal season.

Cook Islands [not that the players had anything to do with that decision].

[rhbhaddict]

Imagine the fallout if the white players got together and said let's make a whites only alliance?   It's really not a good look in this day and age.  Also, although this show seems to still be somewhat interesting, it is getting farther and farther away from being Survivor and I believe that is a mistake.   They are moving away from the simplicity of the game that made survivor such a compelling show.

[watchingtvaddict]

47 minutes ago, rhbhaddict said:

Imagine the fallout if the white players got together and said let's make a whites only alliance?   It's really not a good look in this day and age.  Also, although this show seems to still be somewhat interesting, it is getting farther and farther away from being Survivor and I believe that is a mistake.   They are moving away from the simplicity of the game that made survivor such a compelling show.

Really not comparable as generally the white players are in the majority. Usually, the black players or players who are minorities are voted out early because they "don't get along with the tribe/ are impacting tribe unity". 

Also, when a group of all white players form an alliance, they're generally creating a group based on another metric (the jocks, the nerds, the younger members). 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by watchingtvaddict
reversed "based" and "on" by mistake

[millennium]

9 minutes ago, watchingtvaddict said:

 Usually, the black players or players who are minorities are voted out early because they "don't get along with the tribe/ are impacting tribe unity".

 

I'm not sure that is an accurate portrayal of how minority players have fared on Survivor.   There were some who have been disruptive, abrasive and unlikeable (just as there have been disruptive, abrasive and unlikable Caucasian players -- in fact, I myself have done far more complaining about white players over the years) and there have been some minority players who were well-liked, highly respected and have gone far in the game.  

Edited October 29, 2021 by millennium

[treeofdreams]

17 minutes ago, rhbhaddict said:

Also, although this show seems to still be somewhat interesting, it is getting farther and farther away from being Survivor and I believe that is a mistake.   They are moving away from the simplicity of the game that made survivor such a compelling show.

Agreed.

Outwit.  Outplay.  Outlast.  That is what it was originally about.  You had to win by strategy or success in the challenges, or  a combination of both.  Now too much luck is involved.

What I watched the show for was the strategy and the personal interactions.  This season especially has spent so much time on advantages we don't get to see as much of the strategy, or camp life.  Disappointing.

[watchingtvaddict]

 

8 minutes ago, millennium said:

I'm not sure that is an accurate portrayal of how minority players have fared on Survivor.   There were some who have been disruptive, abrasive and unlikeable (just as there have been disruptive, abrasive and unlikable Caucasian players -- in fact, I myself have done far more complaining about white players over the years) and there have been some minority players who were well-liked, highly respected and have gone far in the game.  

Noted but, when you are in the majority you don't band together because you are the majority. And sometimes minority players have been voted off for being viewed as abrasive and bossy when the same behavior would have been seen as "great leadership skills" by an older white male. 

I agree the optics of an all black alliance don't look great. But, the optics of "Let's band together and help a black person win because only four have won in the past."  and "Let's band together as women and help a woman win, because 14 women have won compared to 24 men."  is very different to "Let's band together as white people because . . . " What's the rational behind this? I don't think it would happen unless we have another Cook Islands set up.  

[North of Eden]

On a scale of 1 to 10 on just how ticked off Jeff is going to be if the Time Travel Advantage is not used I would put at a 12. It could be the greatest FIZZLE since the infamous Medallion of Power.

Sorry  group of four but you are one COOKOUT too late to make reality show history.

[ZeeEnnui]

10 hours ago, fishcakes said:

The fight between Shan and Ricard was something. He was cool-headed and she was angrily berating him. To me, that's the downside of all these new twists; it completely devalues the social game to the point where people can be openly ugly to each other and not have consequences. I don't even like Ricard that much, but I'll be disappointed if he doesn't manage to engineer Shan getting voted out.

100%! I've disliked both Ricard and Shan since day one, but credit where its due, Ricard knows how to play the game. What can I say, I'm a sucker for a logical villain. 

"If you're with me, then you should trust me." Gurl, Ricard has met you and your lame-ass villain soundtrack. The producers can give Shan the winner edit all they want, but she's way too high-strung and emotionally immature to be a truly good strategic player. She lucked out because her teammates put the "G" in gullible. Other tribes with stronger players....not so much. 

Oh yay, more twists. Stop threatening us with an annoying time, Jeffy. Please stop. I'm serious, STOP. 

"I really, really believe that this is the hardest season of Survivor." Okay, I want to know how much the producers are paying contestants to say this each episode. It's not harder, it's just hella confusing. You basically need a doctorate in Probstian bug-fuckery (and a minor in hacky sack) to understand what the hell is going on each episode. 

C'mon, the least the show could've done was leave a volleyball for Erica to befriend. Rude. 

IDGAF about the survivors back stories. Bring back interpersonal drama. If I want to know more about them, I'd fire up Google. 

You may be bruised but your hair still is fabulous, Xander! Props for "mergatory"! Count me among those who doesn't understand the Xander sized chip on Liana's shoulder. For all her talk, she's not a particularly good game player, and without Xander's bony shoulders none of their team would have made it over the platform. But then again, my head is too full of butterflies, broccoli and whatever other bullshit we have to remember for this season, and forgot about Xander kicking sand in Liana's face. 

If Erika smashes that glass, and Jeff doesn't immediately start blasting Cher then I'm done ;)

[millennium]

15 minutes ago, watchingtvaddict said:

I agree the optics of an all black alliance don't look great. But, the optics of "Let's band together and help a black person win because only four have won in the past."  and "Let's band together as women and help a woman win, because 14 women have won compared to 24 men."  is very different to "Let's band together as white people because . . . "

It seems possible the show may someday reach a point where white players may feel a need to band together like that.  I read earlier today that CBS has committed to having 50% people of color on the casts of all of its reality shows going forward.    If we see several seasons of reality shows where people of color ally on the basis of race, is it perhaps inevitable that white players will start to do the same?   The prospect seems sadly ironic, given that these changes to the shows are supposed to be about promoting diversity and inclusivity. 

[30 Helens]

32 minutes ago, ZeeEnnui said:

If Erika smashes that glass, and Jeff doesn't immediately start blasting Cher then I'm done ;)

If he will sing the song in Cher’s voice, I may forgive him everything. 

Now I’m getting all nostalgic for Paul Schaffer and “O Holy Night”. (The stars were brightly shahninyawn, don’tcha know.)

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, Fake Jan Brady said:

Cook Islands [not that the players had anything to do with that decision].

Even with Cook Islands, I don't think that beyond their original tribal setup anybody said implicitly or explicitly, "we want to make sure a person from ________ ethnic group wins, so let's band together." Maybe I'm wrong though.

[BK1978]

On 10/28/2021 at 8:55 AM, ProfCrash said:

Asian cultures are dealing with changes to schools gifted programs that many Asians deem racist because Asians are deemed to be too successful in school and that has led to a decrease in the number of White kids in these programs.

Like I said, my observations only.

From everything I have read and heard on the topic it had nothing to do with the decrease of white students in these programs and more to do with the lower number of Black and Hispanic students in these programs.  At the very least that is why they want to get rid of it in NYC.

On 10/28/2021 at 3:17 PM, Melina22 said:

On the latest Big Brother season, which was filmed after Survivor 41 but aired before it, a group of 6 Black players formed an alliance on day one or two, and called it the Cookout. Their goal was to stick together to the very end, thus ensuring the first Black winner of Big Brother. Their plan worked perfectly but stirred up tons of controversy online. 

You forgot to add the fact that at least two members of the Cookout flat out said they would never vote for a white person to win.  Somehow comments like that were not deemed racist.

On 10/28/2021 at 2:26 PM, millennium said:

Maybe I'm just old school but I have an aversion to alliances founded upon race.  

Same here and I was told by others that I had no right to have such an opinion.

As I have said time and time again, I am opposed to any alliance that bands together with the expressed purpose of getting rid of folks who are different than them.  It does not matter if it is an all-men's alliance, an all-women's alliance, or whatever.  I do realize that sometimes there are seasons where, due to tribal makeup, that can not be avoided like in Amazon, Cook Islands, the season Earl won (Which name I am totally blanking on right now), and One World.  But even in those seasons, to an extent, once the tribe's were shuffled people did not stick to voting out others for reasons of race or gender alone.

On 10/28/2021 at 8:41 PM, Valerie said:

I like Erika and I don't get where all the hate is coming from. Maybe I'm biased because she's a fellow Canadian, but I don't think she's played the game any more aggressively than anyone else. I hope she turns back time to save herself and earn some points with the people she saved as well as a result.

It's satisfying to see Shan down a peg and now a small fish in a big pond. I still want her and Ricard gone.

 I don't get it either but there is a chance that there is something we might not be seeing as the blue tribe has not been focused on all that much.  Though I honestly doubt it because Erika seems very nice to me from what they have shown of her.

On 10/28/2021 at 8:46 PM, millennium said:

Was there a situation where the white people specifically stated that they were forming an alliance because they are white?

I was told in one of the Big Brother threads, I am paraphrasing here but this was the gist of the comment, that any alliance with white people in it are inherently steeped in white supremacy.  So while there does not seem to be any alliance that ever said that, the implication is automatically there. 

Now I do not endorse that statement at all, in fact I find it laughable but, I am just saying what was said to me.

I thought Cook Islands cast was far more diverse than this cast.  I am not sure why they are saying this is the most diverse cast of the show ever.

If Liana has such a hate boner for Xander, then why does she want to take poor Naseer's Idol?  I guess maybe it is because she knows Xander thinks they are working together so he is someone who is in her pocket.  While Naseer is not.

I don't care if she steals Xander's Idol but I don't want Naseer to have his stolen.  For me he is the most likable person out there and he comes across as very happy go lucky.  So I don't want to see him get screwed.

This season has far too many advantages and is making this season far less enjoyable for me.

Edited October 30, 2021 by BK1978
Just fixing typos as always.