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S05.E04: Sentinel

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As the team races to stop a violent band of armed robbers, the search is complicated by civilians using a public safety app that encourages vigilantism. Also, Street receives difficult news that alters his future.

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This could have been an "F" if it weren't for some great acting and some nice character moments.

I mean, Shemar Moore, David DeSantos and Patrick St. Esprit really brought the fire in that final scene, and seeing Street wrestle with his emotions regarding the passing of his mother was also excellent. I also think Street and Hondo had some nice exchanges.

None of that really makes up for the dreadful stories they're telling.

I can't get behind Streelonso. Not sure I ever will, no matter how much the show pushes it on me.

Hondo defying direct orders...well, they're in character, but I also think Hondo went stupidly too far. I guess it's debatable but Hondo's actions began to veer into "characters doing what the plot needs them to do" territory and I don't like that from any writer.

I also wonder how stupid Sanchez is for admitting that he's only there to get Hondo out. It also makes the storytelling that much more inevitable- the team, now knowing the truth about Sanchez, starts all defying him to the point where Hondo gets his job back.

It also made me realize that there was an easy solution for Hondo's troubles and that would have been sticking him on 50-Squad...but then we wouldn't have the team drama and we'd have to have different cast members too, so the show can't go there.

Honestly, since the show is married to the Sanchez storyline, I would have preferred that the show at least play the storyline different.

Have the mole gain respect for the underling he's trying to get fired and make him realize the error of his ways. Yeah, it's the same kind of story Criminal Minds did with Emily Prentiss and was largely done so that Prentiss could stick around as a main cast member, but it at least brought a different kind of take of how stories involving a mole usually go.

Besides, wouldn't a guy like Sanchez know a thing or two about racism himself?

*sigh*

I really don't know.

Lastly, I don't know enough about SWAT training and its related fields to really comment on the Norah Fowler subplot, except that I've always agreed in principle with Deacon on the subject- you can't have two different standards for men and for women, the standard has to be the same. Perhaps you need to change that standard to better reflect what is actually needed in the field but you still need a standard.

On to...the next installment. I think the show is skipping next week (because of Hallowe'en weekend) and resumes in November.

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3 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Honestly, since the show is married to the Sanchez storyline, I would have preferred that the show at least play the storyline different.

Have the mole gain respect for the underling he's trying to get fired and make him realize the error of his ways. Yeah, it's the same kind of story Criminal Minds did with Emily Prentiss and was largely done so that Prentiss could stick around as a main cast member, but it at least brought a different kind of take of how stories involving a mole usually go.

I think Prentiss was on board to sabotage Hotch because of what she was told about him mishandling things. She was told he wasn't good at his job and was put there as more of a spy, feeding information to the higher-ups about how Hotch was screwing things up. This left room for her to realize Hotch was in fact good at his job and did not deserve this kind of treatment.

Sanchez is much more devious. He's been sent there to punish Hondo and force him to quit. 

Like I said last week, Sanchez didn't rise through the ranks because he's a team player who is loyal to SWAT and wants to make sure it's run right. He's a tool and absolutely doesn't mind being one. The man has no shame or principles. He's in there to purposely sabotage one man, and one man only. To make his life miserable and trip him up, and it has nothing to do with how Hondo does his job, which the higher-ups never had a problem with. It has to do with them having egg on their face.  

Hondo brought up the racism issue, and Sanchez basically laughed it off and mocked Hondo for it. 

I think Hondo acted exactly as expected in the final hostage situation. He saw Danny's face and could tell this wasn't a man serious about killing that dude. He was scared. He wasn't a guy ripping off Brinks trucks. He was trying to get insulin for his little girl. He wasn't doing it the right way, certainly. But in the end, his intentions were good.

Hondo sized up the situation and knew he could talk Danny down. After the earlier experience where he was trying to figure out what was going on before Sanchez ordered the tear gas (and as stated, this was something they could get in big trouble for), he was trying to avoid always using force, which is totally the way Hondo does things.

I got mad at Street saying, "What are you doing here?" to Chris, as if merely being his friend, which she has been to this point, isn't enough. She went there to help him out and comfort him, and he's like, "If I can't have sex with you, what's the use of you hanging around me?" Put it in your pants for a second, dude. I hated that Chris kind of hung her head rather than reminding him they had a pretty killer friendship before he decided to throw away his relationship and make her his one and only twu wuv. 

I liked that both Chris and Hondo apologized for having their heads up their butts for a while and are now thinking about other people. 

 

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The last scene between Hondo, Hicks and Sanchez was intense, great acting! But am disappointed that Sanchez confessed so easily about his real agenda. I’d want to see more mind games between the gentlemen.

Sanchez doesn’t know that Luca and Deacon knew about his mission. The question now… how is he going to “poison” the rest of the team and turn them against Hondo under the disguise of “leadership”?

I like it when Street reminded Hondo that he doesn’t get to pick and choose when he can be around. Ouch!

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58 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Sanchez doesn’t know that Luca and Deacon knew about his mission. The question now… how is he going to “poison” the rest of the team and turn them against Hondo under the disguise of “leadership”?

Judging by the preview for next week's episode, Sanchez is going to use the team's loyalty to Hondo against him. 

As we've seen with Hicks, he's not interested in hiding anymore and trying to make friends. He's glad he's out in the open, so now he can be as blatantly evil as he wants to be.

My guess is that this reveal happened so early for this very purpose. He doesn't care who knows, because he has the brass behind him, so he feels he can say and do anything at this point. I mean, Hicks told him he wouldn't sign off on anything, and Sanchez was like, "Yeah, that doesn't matter." 

I think they're setting him up for his hubris to cause him to fail. 

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Perhaps my disdain for the Sanchez storyline doesn't allow me to fully appreciate its nuances. I will admit, David DeSantos is doing really well in the role- he seems like he's really enjoying playing the baddie who, like a great heel in wrestling, sets himself to be hated so much that when his downfall does happen, it will be something the audience will never forget.

In that respect, I can, well, respect what the show is trying to do with Sanchez. Not liking him is how I'm supposed to feel.

So, well done show, I guess.

Still, I look at this and think this is still too "one-note". We're not going to get Hondo vs. Sanchez for the WWE Championship at Survivor Series in a few weeks' time, where, yeah, I'd say "I definitely want to see Hondo kick Sanchez's butt and hold the belt aloft while Sanchez lies motionless on the floor, his devious smirk knocked out of him for good."

I need to have more to get invested in the story than just "I want to see Sanchez fall". Wrestling can get away with one-note storytelling because the match is the focal point. On TV, the storytelling is the focal point, meaning cut-rate stories stick out a lot more.

Perhaps this is a timing issue. Maybe earlier in the series it's easier to get behind a storyline where the team has to battle wits with a mole because we're still learning about the characters and learning how they deal with issues.

Or maybe this one-note baddie isn't hitting the right beats. Just last season we had Lee Durham and his racist buddies who were all about as well-developed as Rodrigo Sanchez is. We also knew the inevitable conclusion to that story.

Yet what made Durham's story work was how many themes it touched upon. It was topical, because racism was a big theme in S4. It also gave us some great character moments as Deacon had to wrestle with the emotions of not just betraying a fellow cop but also realizing that a man whom Deacon thought was his friend turned out to be just another piece of dirt.

Durham's story also set in motion the chain of events that led to the intriguing narrative of Hondo getting demoted and paying the price for doing what he felt was right.

A narrative the show is dropping the ball on now very badly.

Sanchez feels like a speed bump, really, one that the characters will have to deal with but once they do, they're not that much further than where they were before.

At this stage, where the characters are at least somewhat developed but now need new directions for them to explore, speed bumps are the last thing they need.

So maybe that's it. Sanchez comes in at the wrong time, at a time where I feel the show needs to give the characters something different and new about themselves to explore and develop from instead of having to deal with a one-note character that won't add anything to their stories.

Unless Sanchez is just one domino to fall in a season where the show further commits itself to getting political. Does taking down Sanchez lead to Hondo embracing his public image and start getting involved in municipal politics, where he eventually endorses a candidate for Mayor to run against Mayor McCheese and his deputy, H.R. Pufnstuf? Does Hondo take on systemic racism head-on at the LAPD and gets involved with Union politics and sees that people who take racism seriously are installed as its leaders? Are we going to see the return of Michael Plank, whom we last saw was running for a seat on LA City Council?

I guess I just really want to know where this show is going to go from here, because we ain't getting Hondo vs. Sanchez in a steel cage for the WWE Championship anytime soon.

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All that speech with Sergeant Sanchez talking about the chain of command I had a laugh at Commander Hick's expressions that any "chain" went through him.

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17 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Lastly, I don't know enough about SWAT training and its related fields to really comment on the Norah Fowler subplot, except that I've always agreed in principle with Deacon on the subject- you can't have two different standards for men and for women, the standard has to be the same. Perhaps you need to change that standard to better reflect what is actually needed in the field but you still need a standard.

What you said.  I work for a police agency (in a civilian capacity).  We had our first female try-out for the K-9 Unit.  All of the females (sworn and non-sworn) were pulling for her.  But when it came time to lift the dog over a fence during the try-out, she couldn't do it.  I know on TV they show dogs leaping over fences, but often when officers are in a foot pursuit, the dog doesn't have enough room to make the leap, so the officer has to lift the dog over the fence.  Our candidate just didn't have the upper body strength to do it.  A lot of female officers got upset, saying it was rigged against women blah, blah, blah.  However, being able to lift a dog over a fence is part of the actual job.  There is no way around it.

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I was a little surprised they sprang the Sanchez is there to get rid of Hondo thing so fast.  I didn't mind it but it could have been done better which makes me think maybe TPTB are making this up as they go along.

Street and his mom, meh.  I've never gotten the fascination for his character.  He's annoying and the whole Chris thing as well.  Not interested in them as boyfriend/girlfriend and he's no prize but I did agree with him about his comments to Hondo though I was glad they both cleared the air at the end.

As for the S.W.A.T. qualification re: women, even in the military there are slight differences in standards and I can see where the Fowler character is coming from but I also wonder just how they'd be able to make changes quickly and just how that would impact the team dynamics overall.  Chris seems to have been a rarity in qualifying but should that really be the case or is there a way to make adjustments that don't jeopardize the standards expected of a S.W.A.T. team but enable more women to qualify?

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43 minutes ago, milkyaqua said:

 

Street and his mom, meh.  I've never gotten the fascination for his character.  He's annoying and the whole Chris thing as well.  Not interested in them as boyfriend/girlfriend and he's no prize but I did agree with him about his comments to Hondo though I was glad they both cleared the air at the end.

As for the S.W.A.T. qualification re: women, even in the military there are slight differences in standards and I can see where the Fowler character is coming from but I also wonder just how they'd be able to make changes quickly and just how that would impact the team dynamics overall.  Chris seems to have been a rarity in qualifying but should that really be the case or is there a way to make adjustments that don't jeopardize the standards expected of a S.W.A.T. team but enable more women to qualify?

I think that it springs from Robert Ulrich being the breakout actor from the original show. So Street was first among equals in the movie as well as this reboot. On the original Street and Luca were just riflemen with Luca being an ex undercover with Deacon second in command and scout. And McCabe the long rifle, snipers were always bad guys back then.

I appreciated that Chris was not Wonder Woman she was able to hold on long enough when fighting mercenaries. For what it's worth she started as a Metro Division K9 officer before becoming the first woman on this department's SWAT 

Edited by Raja

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2 hours ago, Evagirl said:

What you said.  I work for a police agency (in a civilian capacity).  We had our first female try-out for the K-9 Unit.  All of the females (sworn and non-sworn) were pulling for her.  But when it came time to lift the dog over a fence during the try-out, she couldn't do it.  I know on TV they show dogs leaping over fences, but often when officers are in a foot pursuit, the dog doesn't have enough room to make the leap, so the officer has to lift the dog over the fence.  Our candidate just didn't have the upper body strength to do it.  A lot of female officers got upset, saying it was rigged against women blah, blah, blah.  However, being able to lift a dog over a fence is part of the actual job.  There is no way around it.

This makes sense, as she was being trained for what would actually happen in her job. She absolutely needed to get that dog over the fence, I agree, because it might be required of her at some point. If she can't do it, then she should not be accepted.

But in this case, we're talking about apples and oranges.

At first I was on the, "Well, no. You don't want two sets of standards" thing. But then they explained that the exercises, and that's all they were...exercises...were specifically geared toward men. It had absolutely nothing to do with what would be required of them in the line of duty. Chris suggested weight-lifting, etc., which would much better show that they're able to lift people, etc., in the line of duty.

Deacon even brought it up, and Chris asked if he ever had to challenge a suspect to a set of push-ups. 

Certainly if you need to figure out stamina, etc., you can figure out alternate ways to do it. They do not need to do push-ups in their job.

9 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Durham's story also set in motion the chain of events that led to the intriguing narrative of Hondo getting demoted and paying the price for doing what he felt was right.

This has to be setting up a chain of events.

As Sanchez stated, he's merely a tool of the brass. They're the ones pulling the strings. He even said that if it wasn't him, it would be someone else.

The reason Sanchez is so one-dimensional is because he's merely a tool, a symbol of how broken down the whole system is. 

This is also going to set in motion a much bigger domino effect, which I feel they were setting up from the moment the whole racist cop story first appeared.

They're trying to show that it's not one or two bad apples. That the problem is from the top down. Getting rid of a couple of racist cops isn't going to change the system. Even Hondo making it public offered no change to the actual system that created the racist cops.

So, yes, I feel the Sanchez story fits into a much bigger picture, and that he's purposely a throwaway character, because it's not just going to be Sanchez taken down, as again, he's a symptom of the problem, but rather the whole system being shaken up.

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I wish every episode didn’t have such clunky dialogue that’s always a long long  comment about some social issue.   I feel like I’m constantly getting lectured  when I’m not In positions  to do anything about the topic. The testing standard was this weeks. The price of insulin too. Although I did like how they got the Sentinel app reward money to go to the mom for insulin for her daughter 

Edited by mythoughtis
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On 10/23/2021 at 3:14 PM, mythoughtis said:

I wish every episode didn’t have such clunky dialogue that’s always a long long  comment about some social issue.   I feel like I’m constantly getting lectured  when I’m not In positions  to do anything about the topic. The testing standard was this weeks. The price of insulin too. Although I did like how they got the Sentinel app reward money to go to the mom for insulin for her daughter

I agree that the clunky dialogue is undermining what are good messages. It's a very tell, don't show moment. It's like they get their point across with the story line but then act like we're not smart enough to pick up the message.

These are all real issues, and they can address them without going, "Hey do you know the price of insulin?" "NO! What  is it?" "Well, it's up to $300 a bottle!" "You don't say!"

Danny feeling like he had no other choice but to resort to these extreme measures, was understood. 

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Re: Street- keeping in mind that I still don't like "Streelonso" in principle, I both understood and didn't understand where he was coming from with regards to how Christina deals with him.

I believe the writers were going for Street making the argument that Christina was acting like his girlfriend even though she actually isn't and it's messing him up. In a twisted kind of way, I see where Street is coming from in this regard.

He just used the wrong words and reasons.

I remember listening to him say "I can't touch you or kiss you" and I thought, "hold on a sec...I've cuddled with my female friends before", so I don't see why Street has to say that showing affection must mean he's in a relationship. Further to the point, Christina offering a shoulder to cry on and to be an "emotional support companion" for the night doesn't mean she's trying to impose a relationship on him. She's just doing what friends- all friends- do.

I could go on a rant about how I wish Hollywood would recognize that intimacy between a man and a woman can be platonic and doesn't always have to be sexual but I'd be here all day.

Instead, I'll just say that I wish Street had simply told Christina essentially what he told Hondo- "I appreciate the concern but I need to deal with this on my own time". Street could have also told Christina that the two of them need to figure out where "the line" is between them being friends and them being in a relationship, "but that time isn't now and I'd like our relationship to be simply be cordial and professional for the next little while".

That conveys more what Street intends to say- or at least what I think the writers are intending Street to say- better than the script for this episode came up with.

It goes with the problem I'm having with S5 in general. @Sweet Tooth, you have far more trust in the writers than I do, because I side with @milkyaqua that it sure feels like the writers are making things up as they go along. Nothing at all feels "natural" or "organic" about how these stories are playing out in S5. I'm not really seeing a "grand story" here- I fear the show will deal with Sanchez, put Hondo back in charge and then go back to the Cases of the Week.

Granted, the show could have done the same thing after dealing with Durham, but, to its credit, they didn't. At least during that storyline they alluded to problems down the line for Deacon and Hondo turning on fellow cops, and that all played out. I don't see any allusions in the Sanchez storyline, except for vague references to "the Mayor" and who knows if that'll go anywhere. It just feels like the standard "evil leader" storyline with a mole subplot and the show can do so much better.

At the risk of making this post too long, I'll point out that this was the same series, in S1, where Hondo went too far in hunting the Korean drug kingpin that Hicks had to suspend him from the field...and Hondo complied, even though he didn't want to do that. Where was Hondo's respect for authority with Sanchez? Does it get thrown out simply because Hondo doesn't like him? Come on...Hondo's smarter than that. It would have been a better play for Hondo to reluctantly listen to Sanchez only for Sanchez's order to go sideways, perhaps resulting in the preventable deaths of the criminal and the civilian. Hondo could have used that to complain to Hicks, reveal to Hicks that Sanchez is a mole and use that as further ammunition to take down Sanchez.

...but, then we wouldn't have the scene where everyone yells at each other. Oh well.

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2 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

It goes with the problem I'm having with S5 in general. @Sweet Tooth, you have far more trust in the writers than I do, because I side with @milkyaqua that it sure feels like the writers are making things up as they go along. Nothing at all feels "natural" or "organic" about how these stories are playing out in S5. I'm not really seeing a "grand story" here- I fear the show will deal with Sanchez, put Hondo back in charge and then go back to the Cases of the Week.

I guess only time will tell. It seems to me that "The Mayor" is Chehov's g*n. He has to go off some time.

I can't see them removing Sanchez and thinking they've solved the problem, when they know it's systemic. I mean, they could still find a reason to keep Hondo down and just put another Sanchez in there. Sanchez made it clear Hicks has no power to stop this train that's already left the station. It seemed pretty clear that Sanchez's bravado came from knowing he had support from on high, and I can't see them giving up that easily unless forced.

Deacis trying to change the system from the training stage, which is a really good start. 

I'm hoping my faith will be rewarded, because if they make Sanchez the problem, they really are bad at this and don't understand storytelling at all.

I really hope I don't have to eat my hat on this one.

2 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Street could have also told Christina that the two of them need to figure out where "the line" is between them being friends and them being in a relationship, "but that time isn't now and I'd like our relationship to be simply be cordial and professional for the next little while".

YES! If Street had put the blame on himself and said, "Look, I understand you're here as a friend, but I'm all confused right now, and I have to figure out how I'm going to be around you, while knowing we can't be together," that would have been fine.

Putting the blame on her for merely being there was a pretty rotten thing to do. She didn't come on to him. She didn't touch him. She came there as a friend he regularly confided in. I mean, if she could handle it, why can't he? 

Edited by Sweet Tooth
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5 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

Deac trying to change the system from the training stage, which is a really good start. 

I'm hoping my faith will be rewarded, because if they make Sanchez the problem, they really are bad at this and don't understand storytelling at all.

I really hope I don't have to eat my hat on this one.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong, because I want all this time spent on a rudimentary storyline to actually mean something. I know I've been sour on this show a lot lately but I still want it to get back on track. There's still lots of great stuff for the show to explore if it puts its mind to it.

5 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

YES! If Street had put the blame on himself and said, "Look, I understand you're here as a friend, but I'm all confused right now, and I have to figure out how I'm going to be around you, while knowing we can't be together," that would have been fine.

It makes sense that the stress of losing his mother means he can no longer deal with the situation with Christina- which is already stressful to begin with. That could have been used as an explanation too.

One thing I'll say that I didn't in my original review that I think it's sad that the show has written out Sherilynn Fenn. It's not, necessarily, out of character for Karen Street to OD and die because of it, I just think saying goodbye to her character without another appearance by Fenn seems cheap. Unless Fenn didn't want to come back again for the role, considering how big a role Karen has played in the stories, her death should have been a bigger event.

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I'm enjoying the ongoing plot so far, though I hope they stick whatever landing they are going for. Even if we know our good guys are going to triumph in the end, hopefully the journey will be interesting

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13 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

YES! If Street had put the blame on himself and said, "Look, I understand you're here as a friend, but I'm all confused right now, and I have to figure out how I'm going to be around you, while knowing we can't be together," that would have been fine.

That's giving Street way too much credit though.  He remains the weakest link in this whole show for me.  I just don't understand where the fascination for this character from TPTB comes from.  He ain't no Robert Urich.

Edited by milkyaqua
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On 10/23/2021 at 3:13 PM, milkyaqua said:

I was a little surprised they sprang the Sanchez is there to get rid of Hondo thing so fast.  I didn't mind it but it could have been done better which makes me think maybe TPTB are making this up as they go along.

Street and his mom, meh.  I've never gotten the fascination for his character.  He's annoying and the whole Chris thing as well.  Not interested in them as boyfriend/girlfriend and he's no prize but I did agree with him about his comments to Hondo though I was glad they both cleared the air at the end.

As for the S.W.A.T. qualification re: women, even in the military there are slight differences in standards and I can see where the Fowler character is coming from but I also wonder just how they'd be able to make changes quickly and just how that would impact the team dynamics overall.  Chris seems to have been a rarity in qualifying but should that really be the case or is there a way to make adjustments that don't jeopardize the standards expected of a S.W.A.T. team but enable more women to qualify?

I gotta imagine there are... Ppl are smart... They just haven't had to be

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16 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

It makes sense that the stress of losing his mother means he can no longer deal with the situation with Christina- which is already stressful to begin with. That could have been used as an explanation too.

One thing I'll say that I didn't in my original review that I think it's sad that the show has written out Sherilynn Fenn. It's not, necessarily, out of character for Karen Street to OD and die because of it, I just think saying goodbye to her character without another appearance by Fenn seems cheap. Unless Fenn didn't want to come back again for the role, considering how big a role Karen has played in the stories, her death should have been a bigger event.

I think that he was lashing out due to grief.  I think he was confused and was angry with his mom for OD'ing, and he was taking it out on Chris.

I also wish that they had given Sherilynn Fenn a proper goodbye. It would have been nice to see her in one last scene with Jim.  That would also have made her death more impactful.

Edited by nittany cougar
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I've checked to see if Sherilynn got a new gig, but I can't even find an article about her no longer being on the show, which is really odd.

19 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

It makes sense that the stress of losing his mother means he can no longer deal with the situation with Christina- which is already stressful to begin with. That could have been used as an explanation too.

 

3 hours ago, nittany cougar said:

I think that he was lashing out due to grief.  I think he was confused and was angry with his mom for OD'ing, and he was taking it out on Chris.

Literally any other explanation other than, "HOW DARE YOU come here and comfort me when I can't touch you!  would be acceptable for me.

I'm hoping that he apologizes in a future episode and that he says exactly this. It's understandable that he'd lash out at people. His mom is a complicated issue for him. So if he does a mea culpa, I will consider it done. 

I just wasn't happy with Chris looking sheepish, as if she'd done something wrong. She didn't.

 

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3 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

I've checked to see if Sherilynn got a new gig, but I can't even find an article about her no longer being on the show, which is really odd.

 

Literally any other explanation other than, "HOW DARE YOU come here and comfort me when I can't touch you!  would be acceptable for me.

I'm hoping that he apologizes in a future episode and that he says exactly this. It's understandable that he'd lash out at people. His mom is a complicated issue for him. So if he does a mea culpa, I will consider it done. 

I just wasn't happy with Chris looking sheepish, as if she'd done something wrong. She didn't.

 

I'm just tires of Chris mooning over him... She barely interacts with anyone else... It's time for her to form a new work attachment, her and Hondo dont really speak much... Maybe there

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19 hours ago, milkyaqua said:

That's giving Street way too much credit though.  He remains the weakest link in this whole show for me.  I just don't understand where the fascination for this character from TPTB comes from.  He ain't no Robert Urich.

Or even a Colin Farrell (from the 2003 movie).

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8 hours ago, UnoAgain said:

I'm just tires of Chris mooning over him... She barely interacts with anyone else... It's time for her to form a new work attachment, her and Hondo dont really speak much... Maybe there

Probably since there seems to be some determination from TPTB to push these two together?  I know people can have high stress jobs but they do have friends outside of their work place (heck I know firefighters).  They don't all just clump together with their own.  On TV apparently, no one can have an outside group of friends or loved ones.  It's just lazy and tired.

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11 hours ago, milkyaqua said:

Probably since there seems to be some determination from TPTB to push these two together?  I know people can have high stress jobs but they do have friends outside of their work place (heck I know firefighters).  They don't all just clump together with their own.  On TV apparently, no one can have an outside group of friends or loved ones.  It's just lazy and tired.

They've been pushing these two together since episode one.

The show has absolutely followed the WT/WT playbook by having both of them in serious relationships, with the other one being jealous, and then getting rid of said relationships, so the pathway is clear.

It's been more Street being all moony-eyed over Chris to the point he tossed his relationship out like yesterday's garbage on the off-chance she felt the same way.

They've telegraphed it, so it will happen.

Unfortunately, once a relationship becomes clear, anyone from the outside, no matter how awesome, becomes canon fodder.

They're playing that game on Magnum, P.I. right now.

It's exhausting, but every show that has two people on a team or become partners, etc., who are attractive and around the same age, are immediately set up for eventual partnership, but not before we go through the tiresome relationship dance.

Here's hoping we're on the last stage of this, where the only obstacle is the job.

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15 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

I've checked to see if Sherilynn got a new gig, but I can't even find an article about her no longer being on the show, which is really odd.

I'm not sure how often actors who are only recurring get articles announcing their departure from the series. I don't think I've ever seen one, except when that character was a "big bad" or a major part of a major arc (like a temporary love interest). Karen Street was never more than a part of a recurring subplot- the biggest part, yes, but it was still just a subplot. Don't think Karen ever had a huge part in any episode.

4 hours ago, milkyaqua said:

Probably since there seems to be some determination from TPTB to push these two together?  I know people can have high stress jobs but they do have friends outside of their work place (heck I know firefighters).  They don't all just clump together with their own.  On TV apparently, no one can have an outside group of friends or loved ones.  It's just lazy and tired.

I think a few factors come into play here. One, logistics means it's better for the scriptwriters to stick to the characters they have rather than create several characters who will only be there for a scene or two each season. That would drive up costs unnecessarily. Two, it's not entirely unrealistic, since we are more likely to connect with people we see more often, which would mean our work buddies. I know it happened to me. Lastly, I do think it plays into an idealized workplace a lot of us would have. Wouldn't it be nice if we all worked with people who genuinely cared for each other, worked together and had each's other's backs? I know I would.

My guess with "Streelonso" is that the show wanted to have a love story that was a "slow burn" that would operate in the background while the forefront love story- Hondo+Cortez- operated in the foreground. I'm not sure about the decision to have love stories on this show to begin with, but the TPTB decided on it. I do think Alex Russel and Lina Esco have chemistry together, I'm just not sure it's romantic chemistry.

I personally would have preferred if Street and Christina had simply remained friends and developed a nice, close bond as friendsCriminal Minds, which for years resisted the urge to pair up members of the BAU, dropped the ball when it injected romance- however brief it turned out to be- into the Reid/JJ relationship when it never should have. You never get a good platonic friendship between men and women on TV these days...it'd be nice if, for once, we actually got it.

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40 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

You never get a good platonic friendship between men and women on TV these days...it'd be nice if, for once, we actually got it.

Ala Sherlock Holmes and Joan Watson (Elementary).

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2 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Ala Sherlock Holmes and Joan Watson (Elementary).

Stabler and Benson too, as I understand, on Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, but SVU has revived the pairing so we'll see how long that lasts. Plus Sherlock and Joan are a funny example because those two had actual romantic chemistry, I felt, so a coupling there could have worked. I have to wonder if Elementary didn't pull the trigger there because they worried too many Holmes purists would have gotten upset. They were already breaking ground, so to speak, making Watson a woman, so I guess they didn't want to push the envelope too much.

I'm sure there are other examples too, but the fact remains it's rare for Hollywood to keep a relationship between a man and a woman strictly platonic. Not just that, but actually explore that platonic relationship and commit to doing so.

Perhaps Karen's death will spur Jim Street to tell Christina that right now, he just needs a friend. He probably should have done that in this episode. A complicated loss like his mother should be enough to put on hold any desire for a romantic relationship, because to get through that he needs a solid companion. Christina should offer- and play- this role for him.

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I get that people get together at work.  I've seen it at my own job but not as frequently as TV/movies would have you think.  I do know there's a fandom for this type of thing but it's not why I watch these shows.  As far as I'm concerned I loved the original Law and Order because the only time any personal stuff was implied was off screen which is my preference for shows like this.  If I want to watch the relationship messiness, I can watch a show where that's the sole main purpose.

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11 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Stabler and Benson too, as I understand, on Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, but SVU has revived the pairing so we'll see how long that lasts. Plus Sherlock and Joan are a funny example because those two had actual romantic chemistry, I felt, so a coupling there could have worked. I have to wonder if Elementary didn't pull the trigger there because they worried too many Holmes purists would have gotten upset. They were already breaking ground, so to speak, making Watson a woman, so I guess they didn't want to push the envelope too much.

I'm sure there are other examples too, but the fact remains it's rare for Hollywood to keep a relationship between a man and a woman strictly platonic. Not just that, but actually explore that platonic relationship and commit to doing so.

Perhaps Karen's death will spur Jim Street to tell Christina that right now, he just needs a friend. He probably should have done that in this episode. A complicated loss like his mother should be enough to put on hold any desire for a romantic relationship, because to get through that he needs a solid companion. Christina should offer- and play- this role for him.

Elementary’s ending was perfect for 2 people (partners) who love each other!

I hope Karen’s death will force Street to finally grow-up, be a man, rethink and reprioritise his life. There are other important things than Chris Alonso.

Speaking of relationships in SWAT, am so glad that Hondo/Cortez was quickly over because it felt inappropriate.

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On 10/26/2021 at 9:50 PM, Danielg342 said:

I'm not sure how often actors who are only recurring get articles announcing their departure from the series. I don't think I've ever seen one, except when that character was a "big bad" or a major part of a major arc (like a temporary love interest). Karen Street was never more than a part of a recurring subplot- the biggest part, yes, but it was still just a subplot. Don't think Karen ever had a huge part in any episode.

While searching, I found a ton of articles that she joined the show, so I figured it would be just as big news if she left.

She's still a pretty big name, and she was a major story arc for a major character. For her to end her arc offscreen with no real fanfare, seemed odd to me, so I figured there must be a story behind it.

And yes,  in terms of a show, it's much easier to take existing characters and throw them together. Unless you establish a relationship as the show starts, and that person is a regular, such as on Walker, Texas Ranger, where they're also super cool and a fan favorite, then it's pretty much a given that the two leads, if close in age, attractive, and single, will eventually become a couple.

On Bones it took forever,. Again, they followed the formula of each person getting into serious relationships, where the fans inherently hated the significant others, because it got in the way of the OTP. Everyone knows it's going there, so it just gets really annoying for them to have these awesome relationships with fantastic people you absolutely know are not going to stay around.

On The Mentalist, they had the awesome Pedro Pascal, and I was still like, "Can we get ON with it already?"

I think it would have been better if Streetlonso was already together when the show started, like Hondo was, and made Hondo completely single. Having Street Devastate Hicks' daughter like he did, wasn't a good look for him and made him unsympathetic. The jump to Christina was too soon after demoralizing a woman who did nothing but love him. The whole thing was botched in a big way.

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On 10/26/2021 at 11:52 AM, milkyaqua said:

Probably since there seems to be some determination from TPTB to push these two together?  I know people can have high stress jobs but they do have friends outside of their work place (heck I know firefighters).  They don't all just clump together with their own.  On TV apparently, no one can have an outside group of friends or loved ones.  It's just lazy and tired.

Could not agree more!!!! It gets so stupid. And all these relationships do is detract from the main story. SWAT is an action drama, that doesn't need a romantic storyline amongst team members. SEAL Team, another action drama, is falling into this same trap.

On 10/27/2021 at 3:51 AM, Danielg342 said:

Stabler and Benson too, as I understand, on Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, but SVU has revived the pairing so we'll see how long that lasts. Plus Sherlock and Joan are a funny example because those two had actual romantic chemistry, I felt, so a coupling there could have worked. I have to wonder if Elementary didn't pull the trigger there because they worried too many Holmes purists would have gotten upset. They were already breaking ground, so to speak, making Watson a woman, so I guess they didn't want to push the envelope too much.

I'm sure there are other examples too, but the fact remains it's rare for Hollywood to keep a relationship between a man and a woman strictly platonic. Not just that, but actually explore that platonic relationship and commit to doing so.

Perhaps Karen's death will spur Jim Street to tell Christina that right now, he just needs a friend. He probably should have done that in this episode. A complicated loss like his mother should be enough to put on hold any desire for a romantic relationship, because to get through that he needs a solid companion. Christina should offer- and play- this role for him.

Platonic relationships on TV are like an endangered species. But it needs to be done. Men and women can be good friends and have each other's backs and care deeply about one another WITHOUT  needing to be romantically involved. That would be so refreshing on these shows. Not to mention, forcing these relationships makes the woman look very weak, as they only seem to exist for the relationship. We see this on Chicago Fire with the Stella Kidd character. The optics of making the lone female in a first responder position be in a romantic relationship with someone she works with just looks bad, and it's an insult to actual female first responders.  That's why I've never been and never will be a fan of this Streetlonso crap. All it does is take away from the show and makes her look weak. 

It would be refreshing if a lead female character on one of these shows could simply stand out on their own merits, and doesn't need a relationship to define them.

On 10/27/2021 at 2:58 PM, milkyaqua said:

I get that people get together at work.  I've seen it at my own job but not as frequently as TV/movies would have you think.  I do know there's a fandom for this type of thing but it's not why I watch these shows.  As far as I'm concerned I loved the original Law and Order because the only time any personal stuff was implied was off screen which is my preference for shows like this.  If I want to watch the relationship messiness, I can watch a show where that's the sole main purpose.

Exactly. I believe they interviewed Hargitay and Meloni during the early seasons of SVU, and they both agreed that they'd never want their characters to be romantically involved because it would ruin their relationship.

Meloni said back in 2016 about the producers not pairing them up:

Quote

That I think they always knew would be the death knell of that relationship. I think they needed to keep that line taut and very clear … Keep the tension, never cross it.

That's something that all writers and producers should read and try to understand today.

Edited by WinJet0819
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On 10/28/2021 at 1:32 AM, Sweet Tooth said:

While searching, I found a ton of articles that she joined the show, so I figured it would be just as big news if she left.

She's still a pretty big name, and she was a major story arc for a major character. For her to end her arc offscreen with no real fanfare, seemed odd to me, so I figured there must be a story behind it.

And yes,  in terms of a show, it's much easier to take existing characters and throw them together. Unless you establish a relationship as the show starts, and that person is a regular, such as on Walker, Texas Ranger, where they're also super cool and a fan favorite, then it's pretty much a given that the two leads, if close in age, attractive, and single, will eventually become a couple.

On Bones it took forever,. Again, they followed the formula of each person getting into serious relationships, where the fans inherently hated the significant others, because it got in the way of the OTP. Everyone knows it's going there, so it just gets really annoying for them to have these awesome relationships with fantastic people you absolutely know are not going to stay around.

On The Mentalist, they had the awesome Pedro Pascal, and I was still like, "Can we get ON with it already?"

I think it would have been better if Streetlonso was already together when the show started, like Hondo was, and made Hondo completely single. Having Street Devastate Hicks' daughter like he did, wasn't a good look for him and made him unsympathetic. The jump to Christina was too soon after demoralizing a woman who did nothing but love him. The whole thing was botched in a big way.

However, I think Bones actually lost a little something after their romantic tension turned into a full-blown romance.

In these types of first responder shows, especially where it's clear that the female character is in the minority, putting them together with male lead just makes them look weak. Instead of being kick-ass at their job and showing how good they are, they wind up only actually existing for the relationship. Stella Kidd on Chicago Fire is a prime example. And it's an insult to female first responders. And it's especially frustrating when you consider SWAT is an action drama, and good enough to not need this kind of relationship. We watch SWAT for the action. Not the drama of two team members getting together.

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3 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

. We watch SWAT for the action. Not the drama of two team members getting together.

That is the problem right there. I remember when old war movies from the 40s and 50s used to rotate on to my local syndicated station and always the action would come to a halt for the flashback of one of the characters and his present or hopefully future wife. Then back to the action. They already have you on rounds fired per minute of show and are trying to diversify.

Is it cost cutting to use a present star who could get relegated to just a helmet wearing gunner if you brought in an another intermediate boss or the boss's daughter for that diversification?

 

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14 hours ago, Raja said:

Is it cost cutting to use a present star who could get relegated to just a helmet wearing gunner if you brought in an another intermediate boss or the boss's daughter for that diversification?

I don't know. Say what you want about Laura James' acting but the boss' daughter was a better fit for the gunner than another gunner on the team.

18 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

It needs to be done. Men and women can be good friends and have each other's backs and care deeply about one another WITHOUT  needing to be romantically involved. That would be so refreshing on these shows.

My dad once said men and women can never be friends. I've personally made several friends who are women so I can safely say otherwise. I could go on a screed about why platonic male/female relationships need to be normalized from a cultural and social perspective but that's a debate for another thread.

19 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

Not to mention, forcing these relationships makes the woman look very weak, as they only seem to exist for the relationship

I'm sure S.W.A.T. will argue "look at all the other stories we've given Christina!" (like how in this episode she led the charge to get SWAT to change their training standards) and use that to suggest that Christina Alonso stands on her own as a character. I will counter by stating that simple one-shot stories that lack any kind of depth or a continuous narrative is more of a sign of lazy writers reaching for things to do with a character they're not interested in rather than making her "a character who stands on her own".

Yeah, I guess some could say Christina's narrative is "she's a feminist" but even this is rather weak. On top of the fact that Hollywood writers have already created far too many female characters that are "all about feminism" (or, rather, Hollywood's strawman version of feminism), we hardly see this in action other than in short spurts. It's not like we're seeing Christina have to constantly battle to prove herself to her bosses, deal with rampant harassment against her or even at least have to contend with a toxic masculine work environment, which would at least put her feminist struggles out in the open.

(As an aside, let me state that I'm happy the show didn't go down any of those routes because those are also tired stories...I just suggested them because those are actual meaty stories with actual you can tell if you want your character to be a feminist)

When we've really boiled down all the show has given Christina Alonso, it's clear all she has is her relationship with Street. Which is beyond tiring in 2021. There's no way the show can say that they didn't make the Christina character all about her relationship with Street when it's the only storyline they're exploring for her. Yeah, there's probably an argument that can be made that says that Hondo and maybe Street and Deacon are the only characters who are really developed on this show but it still doesn't excuse the show for resorting to one of the worst and most tired clichés in Hollywood in reducing Christina Alonso to being Jim Street's girlfriend.

I'd say the show needs to do better, but I believe we collectively broke that record a long time ago.

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I don't think they ever should have tried to put Chris & Street together.  You know why?  Because it is so predictable on a show like this.  They should have let Street continue to date the boss's daughter and let Chris develop a relationship outside of the SWAT team.  Yeah, I know they did that bi-sexual, 3-something thing for a couple of months and that was a hot mess!  I don't know who thought of that.

Why can't she just be a pretty female police officer who has the occasional date.  She doesn't HAVE to be involved with anybody.  Hondo's living the single life and I'm glad they're not cluttering it up with the girl he really likes.  However, there is nothing wrong with showing him and her on dates ever now and then.

When they branch off into romance rabbit-holes, the show loses something for me.  I understand they can't have shoot-'em-up every week, but trying to give everybody except Luca a love life is too soap-operaish.

I like the way they write Deacon's storylines.  They only bring in his family when a show is centered on him.  Everybody doesn't have a complicated home life.  But hey, it TeeVee.

One more thing, I'm seeing Lou Ferrigno Jr. as a cast member, but I can't place him in any of the shows.

 

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12 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I don't know. Say what you want about Laura James' acting but the boss' daughter was a better fit for the gunner than another gunner on the team.

And I recall Deacon, Tan and Luca giving him a hard-time and telling him dating the boss' daughter is a big no-no. It would have been nice to see that relationship actually work to prove them wrong. What are those guys going to say when they find out Street and Alonso are now together? If their response is "It's not as bad as dating the boss' daughter," then they are truly delusional. 

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2 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

And I recall Deacon, Tan and Luca giving him a hard-time and telling him dating the boss' daughter is a big no-no. It would have been nice to see that relationship actually work to prove them wrong.

Yeah. That would have been really great. Could you imagine the look on Hicks' face if he ever learned that Street and Molly were going to get married? I think that would be worth an "A" for the entire episode just for that one still.

3 hours ago, Evagirl said:

I like the way they write Deacon's storylines.  They only bring in his family when a show is centered on him. 

One thing I do like about Deacon's family storyline- and I hope I haven't jinxed it- is that the show hasn't gone the tired route of killing them all off or having Annie leave Deacon and take the kids with her because "he works too much" or "his job is stressful". They're showing that, despite all the struggles, they're committed to making it work and they are making it work. A rarity on TV these days.

3 hours ago, Evagirl said:

One more thing, I'm seeing Lou Ferrigno Jr. as a cast member, but I can't place him in any of the shows.

Lou Ferrigno, Jr. is Rocker, a member of the other SWAT unit on this show, 50-Squad. That was the squad Mumford led until he retired, and they only come in when 20-Squad (Hondo's team) needs some help.

He's actually been with the show since the beginning, but we rarely see him except for maybe a scene or two and that's to do exposition or to rib Tan or Street about something. I don't think the show uses him that often.

Anyway, here's a pic:

 

Donovan_Rocker.jpg

Edited by Danielg342

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Thanks so much Danielg342.  I do remember a few shows where another squad came in.  I'll have to remember to look for Lou Jr. next time 50-Squad makes an appearance.  I can kind of see his old man's features in his face. 

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9 hours ago, Evagirl said:

Thanks so much Danielg342.  I do remember a few shows where another squad came in.  I'll have to remember to look for Lou Jr. next time 50-Squad makes an appearance.  I can kind of see his old man's features in his face. 

Most of the time Rocker shows up it's at the base- he's hardly out in the field. You'll probably catch him popping up randomly around the command centre delivering intel or mixing it up with 20-Squad members in their break areas. If you see a guy in SWAT attire randomly show up and you don't recognize him, chances are it's Rocker.

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22 hours ago, Evagirl said:

When they branch off into romance rabbit-holes, the show loses something for me.  I understand they can't have shoot-'em-up every week, but trying to give everybody except Luca a love life is too soap-operaish.

This echoes my exact feelings on what another cop show I used to like, Chicago PD, has become.

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Something else about Molly came up that I just thought about- Molly seemed to actually compliment Street and give him what he lacks. I'll always remember that big hug Molly gave Street after Nate's death where she reminded him that having someone means he doesn't need to struggle alone. I mean, it was likely going to be a work in progress for Molly because Street's not the kind of guy who seeks help, but it sure seemed like she understood that, at least on a subconscious level, having someone to lean on is something Street lacks.

What Christina brings to the table for Street...I don't know. Christina seems to need someone to lean on just as much as Street does, and she may even be more fragile than Street is. She's more of an "advocate" type and while Street may need that from time to time, I don't think needing someone to fight for him is something that he needs because I think he's more than capable of doing that himself. Maybe Christina pursuing Street is more about her needing Street's stability because he could provide that for her...which does Christina Alonso the character no favours but it's the only explanation I can think of.

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5 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

What Christina brings to the table for Street...I don't know. Christina seems to need someone to lean on just as much as Street does, and she may even be more fragile than Street is. She's more of an "advocate" type and while Street may need that from time to time, I don't think needing someone to fight for him is something that he needs because I think he's more than capable of doing that himself. Maybe Christina pursuing Street is more about her needing Street's stability because he could provide that for her...which does Christina Alonso the character no favours but it's the only explanation I can think of.

I think she brings an understanding of his background.  In several episodes, they have  talked about their bad childhoods.  In one episode Chris told Jim that they both had the worst days of their lives when they were kids.  In the season four, JIm told Chris that they were both the children of drunks.  So they have an understanding of the consequences of their insecure backgrounds that someone from a "normal" family might not have.

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