S03.E09 : This is Your Only First Concert

[Shelbie]

She will blame society but I think she mostly will blame Olivia for any of her children not adoring and obeying her.  

[JayDub1987]

Yea, there's really no hope for Kim at this point. Narcists don't really stop being stop being narcists. Kim adores herself entirely too much to ever accept the fact that she may be to blame for her children not wanting anything to do with her.  

[JeanJean]

On 10/14/2021 at 1:36 PM, Shelbie said:

I feel like people are watching two different Olivias. 
I see a very young woman who grew up in a repressive family and community trying to control her own life. I find her thoughtful and articulate about boundaries and marriage and she sees Kim and Barry as they really are and is unwilling to allow them to warp her perceptions. Moriah and Ethan seem to love her and enjoy being around her.
Others seem to see her as Alexis Carrington from Dynasty. An evil controlling woman laughing in delight in thwarting Kim. 

I'm with you.

I intensely dislike Kim, especially after the stunt she pulled at Moriah's gig. Playing pretty much as a "solo act" for the first time with her own material was going to be stressful, and Kim not honoring the request to stay away was disgusting. All she did was intensify Moriah's nervousness, and anyone who could think beyond herself would know that would be the case.

[JeanJean]

On 10/16/2021 at 10:59 AM, readheaded said:

Moriah wasn’t put in the middle, she knowingly made choices that resulted in the situation. 

I think she told Kim not to come. Which Kim, true to her narcissistic self, ignored.

It would be interesting to know if Kim was like this before the awful accident. It may be that her severe need to control everything is to stem overwhelming terror that now comes up when she feels out of control. That would be understandable. Someone (looking at YOU, Barry) needs to insist she see a therapist.
And you don't get to ruin your kids, regardless.

[antfitz]

9 hours ago, Shelbie said:

She will blame society but I think she mostly will blame Olivia for any of her children not adoring and obeying her.  

I can't stand Kim.  She is so manipulative and wants her way all the time.

[antfitz]

I think Kim  Is extremely manipulative. And Mariah is not at all what the mother wants, but she's using her to get back at Ethan and Olivia. It's ugly and cruel to use her like that.

[JeanJean]

Well, my heart sank when Moriah let Kim off the hook and pretty much made it okay for her to be as manipulative as she wants in the future. 

 

[all4mom2]

I'm not Team Kim, but I'm certainly not Team Olivia; the two women clash because they both want total control.  I'm so sick of seeing that sweet, simple Ethan's mind messed over by his manipulative wife week after week, throwing him away and then luring him back in, making him dance to a tune she constantly changes just for the fun of watching him and his entire family squirm.  Seek professional help, Olivia, for your mental problems and leave that poor boy to find some sweet, simple girl who will appreciate him.

The Plaths weren't on TV before Olivia, but they were on YouTube as a family band and seemed perfectly "harmonious."

It's pretty obvious that a lot of Olivia fans have issues with their own MILs and are seriously projecting.

Edited October 20, 2021 by all4mom2

[JeanJean]

41 minutes ago, all4mom2 said:

I'm not Team Kim, but I'm certainly not Team Olivia; the two women clash because they both want total control.  I'm so sick of seeing that sweet, simple Ethan's mind messed over by his manipulative wife week after week, throwing him away and then luring him back in, making him dance to a tune she constantly changes just for the fun of watching him and his entire family squirm.  Seek professional help, Olivia, for your mental problems and leave that poor boy to find some sweet, simple girl who will appreciate him.

The Plaths weren't on TV before Olivia, but they were on YouTube as a family band and seemed perfectly "harmonious."

It's pretty obvious that a lot of Olivia fans have issues with their own MILs and are seriously projecting.

Who is sweet and simple in adulthood, though? From what I remember of being a child, even children have more going on under the surface then people may think. Part of being in an adult relationship is being able to combine with another complex being in a way that works for both. 

And nope, not projecting any MIL issues. 

And also, Olivia DOES see a therapist. Too bad more people on this show don't go to one.

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by JeanJean

[RedDelicious]

All Olivia wants is control over her own life and a marriage free from interference from Ethan's condescending and manipulative parents, which is how it should be. A different girl with less strength of character might let Barry and Kim continue their awful abusive behavior and that would get Ethan nowhere in life. It would just be perpetuating the cycle of abuse.

I'm sure the family band *was harmonious, back when all of the kids were still children and entirely under Kim's control. Let us not forget they almost disowned Moriah and Micah/Moriah were practically kicked out of the house for the desire to live life on their own terms. 

[the-grey-lady]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:12 PM, all4mom2 said:

I'm so sick of seeing that sweet, simple Ethan's mind messed over by his manipulative wife week after week, throwing him away and then luring him back in, making him dance to a tune she constantly changes just for the fun of watching him and his entire family squirm.

I think this is an unfair characterization of Ethan. He's quiet and calm, yes, but I don't buy the narrative that he doesn't know his own mind.

He seemed genuinely furious when he saw Kim at the gig, and that had nothing to do with any "poison" Olivia whispered in his ear. 

And it isn't unreasonable for Olivia to want a life and marriage free of her MIL's obsessive need for control. In every one of those Kim/Barry confessionals where they talk about the estrangement from Olivia, the Plaths never admit they've done anything wrong. They've always been misinterpreted or misunderstood, or Olivia's heart is hard.

Newsflash: her heart is hardened to you because you've been assholes.

[JayDub1987]

33 minutes ago, the-grey-lady said:

I think this is an unfair characterization of Ethan. He's quiet and calm, yes, but I don't buy the narrative that he doesn't know his own mind.

He seemed genuinely furious when he saw Kim at the gig, and that had nothing to do with any "poison" Olivia whispered in his ear. 

And it isn't unreasonable for Olivia to want a life and marriage free of her MIL's obsessive need for control. In every one of those Kim/Barry confessionals where they talk about the estrangement from Olivia, the Plaths never admit they've done anything wrong. They've always been misinterpreted or misunderstood, or Olivia's heart is hard.

Newsflash: her heart is hardened to you because you've been assholes.

Exactly. Kim and Barry (more so Kim) truly believe that they're beyond reproach. You can't treat people anyway you want to and expect them to simply conform to your Nazi-like approach to them. The fact that Olivia just doesn't interact with them shows how strong she truly is. If I were in a similar situation, I'd be far more confrontational. 

[Ms.Lulu]

Deleted

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Ms.Lulu

[For Cereals]

On 10/17/2021 at 3:26 PM, Jeanne222 said:

Kim is his mother. He can choose to stay away from her but he should be respectful. 

But what has she done to earn his respect other than give birth to him?  I mean, yes, he wasn’t cast out like Micah and Moriah, but for someone who claims to support her children so much, she’s failed at the basics in preparing them for life.  

[JayDub1987]

2 hours ago, For Cereals said:

But what has she done to earn his respect other than give birth to him?  I mean, yes, he wasn’t cast out like Micah and Moriah, but for someone who claims to support her children so much, she’s failed at the basics in preparing them for life.  

Well in season one, she informed Moriah that Moriah shouldn't be resentful towards her because she gave her a home. 

Yep, Super Bitch Kim actually said that her children owe her something because she let them live in a house. I'm sorry, Kim. Letting your children live in your home isn't something to brag about. That's called PARENTING.

[salvame]

I feel we are all failing to take into account the editing that happens in this, and all, "reality" shows. Remember when the tag line used to be "life unscripted"? That has never actually been the case. When I look at the average family, I see boring, if they were to be filmed day in and day out. In order to keep viewers, there is a lot of editing that goes on, with all the shows of this genre. Just read some of the articles of former cast members to understand what I am talking about. Think about it - if not for the conflict between Kim and the 3 older kids, what kind of story would there be? Would we stay around to watch Lydia in the prayer closet, or talking out her natural desire to communicate with the boy she loves with her god, as though this was a moral crime? (By her age, most parents have nurtured their children to establish successful relationships, not keep them cloistered.) 

I think the producers are encouraging the confrontations. Many of them are so over the top that they come across as comedic. I actually laughed through most of the parking lot espionage- it was obviously so scripted. I just feel really bad that Ethan and Olivia have become the scape goats - I really believe they could have a good relationship if the production team didn't keep stirring the pot.

I watch far too many of these "reality-based" based shows, so I see the patterns. Again, think of cameras in your house for 24 hours. How much drama would there be? In my house, it would be trying to get the dogs to ring a bell to signal their need to go out!  😁

[Back Atcha]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:57 AM, gingerella said:

You honestly think she will ever seek help?

Thank you, Gingerella!   This is asked by MANY MORE viewers/posters than those who require that we and her children respect her.  She's a lost cause, and as soon as her husband and children come to terms with that...the better THEIR lives will be.  Their TV program, of course, will be gone.

[Back Atcha]

On 10/19/2021 at 7:40 PM, JeanJean said:

It would be interesting to know if Kim was like this before the awful accident.

Check out the outfits--especially on the girls.  That will give a good hint. There are several family photos taken before the death of the toddler.

[emmawoodhouse]

9 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

Check out the outfits--especially on the girls.  That will give a good hint. There are several family photos taken before the death of the toddler.

I gather the girls were in matching frumpers? Boys in khakis? 

[magemaud]

Watching Ethan running around the parking lot during Moriah’s concert, I was disappointed they didn’t play the “Mission Impossible” theme. 

[JeanJean]

KIM: "Her phone rang, so I looked through everything that was ever on it."
That woman is nuts. 

I'm sorry, but I could have lived without Lydia walking around the woods singing to God. Maybe it's just me, but I found it cringey. Not so much that she did it, but I wish she did it privately instead of on the show. Although I do think she could have a happy career playing Maria in "Sound of Music" road companies. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by JeanJean

[JeanJean]

3 minutes ago, JeanJean said:

Whoops. Sorry!

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by JeanJean

[antfitz]

On 10/19/2021 at 1:47 PM, JayDub1987 said:

Yea, there's really no hope for Kim at this point. Narcists don't really stop being stop being narcists. Kim adores herself entirely too much to ever accept the fact that she may be to blame for her children not wanting anything to do with her.  

 I can't stand Kim. She uses religion as a way to control her children and her husband.

[DNR]

On 10/14/2021 at 9:37 AM, Madding crowd said:

I have also been in Olivia’s shoes . For 26 years until she just died , I had the mother in law from hell. Not religious but horrible. Just a couple of her highlights: -had a secret 20 year relationship with my husband’s ex in the hopes they could reunite 

-called me and my family trash because my sister threw me a baby shower 

-when I was promoted to VP at my company told everyone I was a clerk who married my husband for his money even though I made much more than him

Plenty of times I had to hold my tongue and see her but I did it because there were family occasions that were important to my husband. Believe me I understand.

 

I feel the pain - had a MIL from hell as well.  I felt relieved when she died and only attended her memorial for my 2 sons’ & MrDNR sake. 
i have many highlights ( or lowlights) the biggest one being, after a terrible car accident - 2 months in hospital , then months of therapy at home … one day i didn’t answer her call ( i was always trying to be respectful as i was raised to be in spite of her nastiness ) MIL left a vicious vm saying “ you should be strung up by a rope & hung” ….

i went thru every emotion , hurt especially because I’d just almost been killed in the wreck. I never spoke to her again after that voicemail. 
So i get olivia’s reaction , others might say Buck up! Get over it! Ignore them!… it’s not easy to do but it became easier as i matured and got older 

Ding Dong twid! 

[DNR]

On 10/19/2021 at 11:12 PM, all4mom2 said:

I'm not Team Kim, but I'm certainly not Team Olivia; the two women clash because they both want total control.  I'm so sick of seeing that sweet, simple Ethan's mind messed over by his manipulative wife week after week, throwing him away and then luring him back in, making him dance to a tune she constantly changes just for the fun of watching him and his entire family squirm.  Seek professional help, Olivia, for your mental problems and leave that poor boy to find some sweet, simple girl who will appreciate him.

The Plaths weren't on TV before Olivia, but they were on YouTube as a family band and seemed perfectly "harmonious."

It's pretty obvious that a lot of Olivia fans have issues with their own MILs and are seriously projecting.

Agree 100% .  I had an awful MIL and sympathize with Olivia a bit BUT Ethan will NEVER make this manipulative b happy either.  Olivias got baggage besides Kim & Barry and it’s sad to see the Plath siblings missing Ethan so much . Olivia likes having control & having her boot on Ethans sweet simple neck

[gingerella]

On 11/3/2021 at 12:31 AM, DNR said:

Agree 100% .  I had an awful MIL and sympathize with Olivia a bit BUT Ethan will NEVER make this manipulative b happy either.  Olivias got baggage besides Kim & Barry and it’s sad to see the Plath siblings missing Ethan so much . Olivia likes having control & having her boot on Ethans sweet simple neck

I'm sorry you had a terrible MIL, but I don't see Olivia as doing anything other than:

1. Trying to create and maintain boundaries between her/her marriage and her husband's controlling parents who have told her she is possessed with demons. Fuck that shit. I'd do exactly the same thing to Kim & Barry and I wouldn't be as polite and controlled as Olivia has been. I'd have told them to fuck right off.

and

2. She is trying to help her husband, whom she loves, to grow into his own person so she doesn't have to be the one making all their life decisions. I'd be frustrated and annoyed to be always the one having to make decisions for my husband and I.

Neither of the above are Olivia being manipulative. But hey, YMMV.

[Madding crowd]

Olivia only wants Ethan to make decisions which line up exactly with hers and that is also manipulative. Ethan said he was happy for now with owning a house, working and being married. Olivia was going to divorce him if he didn’t agree to sell his house and live in a series of rental places in different towns. It’s not teaching someone to have their own mind if they have to agree that you decide everything. I don’t hate Olivia but I feel she wants to control Ethan in a more subtle way than his mother did. I never hear her talking about his interests and likes , only her own. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Madding crowd

[Ziggy]

35 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Olivia only wants Ethan to make decisions which line up exactly with hers and that is also manipulative. Ethan said he was happy for now with owning a house, working and being married. Olivia was going to divorce him if he didn’t agree to sell his house and live in a series of rental places in different towns. It’s not teaching someone to have their own mind if they have to agree that you decide everything. I don’t hate Olivia but I feel she wants to control Ethan in a more subtle way than his mother did. I never hear her talking about his interests and likes , only her own. 

I think you might be oversimplifying things a little bit.  Keep in mind that part of the reason Olivia wants to leave Cairo is that she feels suffocated by Kim and Barry.  That might not make sense, logically, but that feeling is very, very real to her.

Olivia presented many different scenarios to Ethan: rent a house in a different small town, rent a house with a garage, look for a place in a larger town, maybe get an apartment.  She tried to talk to him about his likes and dislikes, and he just shut down (at least on camera - we don't know what conversations took place off camera).  She tried really, really hard to get him to talk about what he wanted, and he just wouldn't talk.  I'd be frustrated as hell!!!

Ethan might have been happy living and working where they were, but Olivia was not in a place where she could live there (because of the parents).  And that's more what the problem was.  Ethan needed to be a part of the conversation in figuring out where they were going to live if Cairo was no longer an option.

Olivia needed Ethan to support the fact that she could not live in Cairo.  She tried to wait for him to figure things out, she tried to talk to him about the various options, she tried really, really hard not to pressure him.  It wasn't like, "If you don't move from town to town and share in my prefect idea of an adventure, they we're getting a divorce."  It was more like, "I cannot live in Cairo and be healthy.  I need to be in a different place in order to focus on my mental health.  What can we do?  Can you work with me?  Or do I need to do this alone?"

Huge difference!

[Madding crowd]

Ethan talked to her about renting a house somewhere with some garage place where he could tinker with his cars and she said no to that and it had to be an apartment in an area with no space for his hobbies. So he sold his house and likely his cars to live out only her dream. He did have opinions but she kept asking until he agreed with her dreams. I think that is controlling. It’s not fair to say someone doesn’t know what they want just because what they want differs from your ideas. They are both 23, they are young and will likely have fun adventures in their travels. But I don’t believe Ethan will really be happy until he gets a say in his own life , something he had never had. 

[Rootbeer]

14 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I think you might be oversimplifying things a little bit.  Keep in mind that part of the reason Olivia wants to leave Cairo is that she feels suffocated by Kim and Barry.  That might not make sense, logically, but that feeling is very, very real to her.

Considering that Kim and Barry moved from their rural farm into a rental house in town much closer to Olivia and Ethan and that Kim has bragged about how she has all sorts of people keeping an eye on them and reporting back to her; I think it makes a lot of sense that Olivia feels that Kim and Barry were invading her space.  Had Kim been content to leave them alone, perhaps Olivia could've been ok with living in the same town.

[auntiemel]

On 11/2/2021 at 9:27 PM, DNR said:

I feel the pain - had a MIL from hell as well.  I felt relieved when she died and only attended her memorial for my 2 sons’ & MrDNR sake. 
i have many highlights ( or lowlights) the biggest one being, after a terrible car accident - 2 months in hospital , then months of therapy at home … one day i didn’t answer her call ( i was always trying to be respectful as i was raised to be in spite of her nastiness ) MIL left a vicious vm saying “ you should be strung up by a rope & hung” ….

i went thru every emotion , hurt especially because I’d just almost been killed in the wreck. I never spoke to her again after that voicemail. 
So i get olivia’s reaction , others might say Buck up! Get over it! Ignore them!… it’s not easy to do but it became easier as i matured and got older 

Ding Dong twid! 

Wow, I'm so sorry you went through that! That's awful!

[Ziggy]

On 11/5/2021 at 9:55 AM, Madding crowd said:

Ethan talked to her about renting a house somewhere with some garage place where he could tinker with his cars and she said no to that and it had to be an apartment in an area with no space for his hobbies.

Olivia did mention an apartment (and I agree, Ethan was definitely not interested in an apartment), but Olivia tried talking to Ethan about so many different options.  He just kept trying to avoid the topic (hoping it would just go away?). and that's being passive aggressive.

I don't think Olivia always handled things right, but I think she was honestly trying to figure out a solution that they could both be happy with.

On 11/5/2021 at 9:55 AM, Madding crowd said:

I don’t believe Ethan will really be happy until he gets a say in his own life , something he had never had. 

I agree.  I don't think Ethan has ever really had a say in his own life.  He's still learning to find his voice.  That's going to take some practice.