Book 5: The Fiery Cross

[GHScorpiosRule]

GHScorpiosRule, I was crying like a baby through a lot of the last few chapters, so I'm glad you are finding the last parts of the book emotionally satisfying :-)

Oh I am. I mean, I did, I so, so did! Amazing.  From when Jamie and Roger confront Anstruther and Lillywhite, to Claire's confrontation with Bonnet, to Marsali holding a gun on him, after Germaine had thrown a dead rat at him (should have aimed for the face, la petit);

 

And Bree shooting him in the balls; I hope she got both of them and not just one; or didn't just shoot his fingers.

 

I keep thinking to chocolatetruffle's first post after she finished reading this, about how this was JAMIE'S book, and he is the King of Men and leader, or something along those lines.  For all that I bitch about Gabaldon's writing, she did do something special with creating Jamie, as well as Claire.

 

Oh, and Jamie reading Jenny's letter and learning about what that blackmailing hosebeast has been up to... I mean..that heinous hosebeast! Hypocritical witch.  And I felt so bad for Jamie, when he had that sleep/dream that Claire was the hosebeast.

 

Other thoughts:

 

Jemmy:  "I have balls?" 

              "Tha's not balls! That's my willy!"

Me: snort/guffaw.

 

And when Jemmy asks Jamie if he has balls, Jamie responds with "Aye, but your Da's are bigger.". Though not outright saying it, Jamie letting Roger know what he thinks of him when Roger had the chance to find out if Jemmy was really his, after Claire's confusing explanation of how genes work, down to the tongue curling-who could do it and who couldn't. Gave me a headache and had me saying the same thing Roger, Bree, Jamie and Jemmy saying: BLEAH!

 

And Wee Ian!!!! I see that DG has fallen into other authors' mistakes--changing eye color of a character who hasn't been seen in awhile. She did it with Geillis--giving her gray eyes at first, before changing them to green; and now Wee Ian has not the dark brown eyes of his Da, but are now hazel, no, they're brown. No! they're hazel again! (All in the same scene, mind you, not different chapters)

And Rollo!!!!! I'm sad he didn't bring any of his pups. I mean, I think I read that he knocked up some other dog, right? I think Wee Ian said in his letter, while he was to be a father in the Spring, that Rollo was now a father.

Yeah, I give Roger more slack than Bree.  Poor Roger, it's like he gets the worst of everything, and when he comes to, it's like he's got amnesia--he can't see, hear or knows what's going on or what happened.  And yes, I do see how he resents how "awesome" Jamie is, but also admires him. I get it; at the same time, it's like, well Roger, you know from, history, what Jamie went through, Culloden,. being a Highlander, that he's awesome now, because he's EARNED it, and paid for it with blood, sweat and tears. He wasna born Awesome.

"What is a tes-teees?"

What indeed.

 

And I will end with this:

 

OHEMGEE!!!!!!

I Loved, absolutely LOVED Jamie's last line to Claire right as the book ended: "When the day shall come, that we do part," he said softly, and turned to look at me, "if my last words are not 'I love you'-ye'll ken it was because I didna have time."

Me: a puddle of goo, *sniffing*, sighing...smiling...and wiping my eyes, because dust got into them. stupid allergies.

So of course I got the next book.

 

Edited July 14, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[sosmitten]

 

And when Jemmy asks Jamie if he has balls, Jamie responds with "Aye, but your Da's are bigger."

 

I loved, loved, loved that moment.  It said so much with just a few words.  You could really tell that things had shifted in Jamie and Roger's relationship.

[Laurie]

I Loved, absolutely LOVED Jamie's last line to Claire right as the book ended:

 

When the days shall come, that we do part," he said softly, and turned to look at me, "if my last words are not 'I love you'-ye'll ken it was because I didn't have time.

I love that line, too.

I've heard Diana say in interviews that her husband actually said that to her out of the blue one morning.

Laurie

Edited July 14, 2015 by Athena
Quote tag

[Clawdette]

I have now encountered nightfall on the neverending wedding/no wedding day and suddenly on page 147 I read of a Mr. Campbell from Barbecue Presbyterian. This is the church in which my father was born into and is where by grandmother and aunts and uncles are buried. It was established in 1758.

I grew up in a "sister" church to Barbecue (it began as a mission of Barbecue in 1913) and the two churches were a married field, meaning they shared a minister. In the 1960s, a Rev. James MacKenzie was called to serve and he embraced the rich Highland Scot heritage of the area. The youth at the churches erected a Cairn of Remembrance on the Barbecue grounds, incorporating stone from Flora MacDonald's home in Scotland. We learned - or attempted to learn - to play the recorder in anticipation of moving up to bagpipe chanters. We could sing the 23rd Psalm in Gaelic. We learned a lot about our history.

In Drums in Autumn and in this book so far, I think Gabaldon was done a wonderful job of capturing the history of Highland Scots in North Carolina as I remember reading about it. She certainly has done extensive research. I'm glad I decided to tackle the series.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Clawdette

[chocolatetruffle]

In Drums in Autumn and in this book so far, I think Gabaldon was done a wonderful job of capturing the history of Highland Scots in North Carolina as I remember reading about it. She certainly has done extensive research. I'm glad I decided to tackle the series.

 

Clawdette, in my first post about this book I stated that it was my favorite thus far and one of the reasons why I love this book so much (and DG's writing overall) is the strong sense of place as well as history.  When I read, I want to be transported to another place and live the full lives of people from a culture that is different from mine.  She makes you feel the humidity in the air, smell the scents and hear the sounds of the forest, while learning what it's like to live day to day in that environment.  

 

For those that loved the last line:  I remember thinking that something was vaguely familiar about it when I read it, but I dismissed the thought as coming from my overactive imagination.  Then, yesterday I was watching a retrospective of Ken Burns' Civil War documentary and was reminded of the last letter written by Major Sullivan Ballou to his wife the night before he was killed in battle. Considered to be the greatest love letter ever written, I think DG's husband must be familiar w/ that letter as well.  The oft-quoted line in question is "If I do not [return], my dear Sarah, never forget how much I love you, nor that, when my last breath escapes me on the battle-field, it will whisper your name."  But it is a fantastic (and historically accurate) way for Jamie to express his love to Claire.

[Archery]

Just finished Fiery Cross re-read.  I had read it when it first came out, and, honestly, I didn't remember a lot of stuff that happened in the book. As in, it didn't even feel familiar.  I have to confess that when it comes to DG's writing, I'm often torn between Why do I need to know this - just move on, already! and Let me file this detail away because it might be important two books from now.  That was a lot of this book for me. 

 

I'm a sucker for those rare times when DG breaks Jamie. Obvs, in Outlander.  In DIA, when he is trying to honor Claire's wishes with respect to Frank.  In Voyager, when he is studying the photos of Brianna.  And in Fiery Cross, when, after Jamie keeps a brave face on during the snake bite treatment (because, OMG, she's injecting distilled alcohol into the tissues of his wounded leg!!), DG give us this:  "and finally, he wept."  Undone.  There's another part when Claire observes that Jamie has probably never had a day without pain since Culloden, and nobody would ever know because he would never say so. That is why I love Claire.  She totally gets it. 

 

And one more thing, which probably gets lost in the Return of Young Ian:  Wee Jemmy charging the "big pig" with Jamie's dropped dirk, intent on killing that thing.  Love. 

[DittyDotDot]

Goodness, is the wedding day the whole book? I'm 10 percent in and it can't be more than halfway through the day so far.

 

This reminded me how much Gabaldon's writing seems to be more TV-esk in style. It's an interesting concept, I'm assuming all these people we're meeting will be relevant to the story going forward and it's nice to glimpse into the everyday, but it's starting to drag. Has me a bit worried too, I'm having flashbacks to that day Jamie and Claire meet for the first time in 20 years in Voyager. The day does end, eventually though, right? Pretty good time management on the part of Jamie and Co., though. I mean, they seem to be traipsing all over that hillside in lickety-split time to be able to get all the things done they've done so far.

 

Also, can I just say, I'm so not looking forward to any more Bonnet. I knew when Brianna let the man go in Drums of Autumn this was going to come back around--and not in a good way. I wish she would've just shot him then and there and be done with it. (now I'm hearing Uncle Fester "Shoot 'em in the back!") I predict by the end of the book Brianna will, in some manner, get her revenge by making sure he can't sire any more children just as Jamie got his chance with Black Jack. Sigh.

Edited September 10, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[lianau]

Just work your way through that day . It's a long one but eventually even that day has an ending .

[DittyDotDot]

Thanks, lianau, I think I'm getting there, but first...

 

Bwahahaha! "Beans, beans they're good for your heart. The more you eat the more you fart. ..." Oh, Claire! 

 

And Roger telling Jocasta to "cram it up her hole"...

 

I don't think I've been so amused since Claire described prostatitis to auld Simon Fraser back in Dragonfly in Amber. Even though, it's a long day, I gotta admit it's been an amusing one, at least. ;)

[DittyDotDot]

Finally, the day is done! But not before, "We're verra happy!" ::snort::  Germaine, Jamie and Fergus had me in stitches there. No wedding in this family can ever come off simple, can it? I guess Roger should be grateful the minister didn't ask him if he had a cock over and over. Hee! How great was it that Jamie acknowledged Roger as son of the house, though. Nicely done there.

 

Oh and I did not expect there to be an honest to goodness physical fiery cross here--I assumed it was metaphorical. Jamie preparing for the night and calling for Dougal's help was captivating to me. And loved Roger and Bree's exchange about how this honorable tradition got twisted into to something completely different by the KKK. Well done again.

 

Anyway, I'm kind of been stuck on something since the start of this book. When did Claire learn to cook and manage a household of all these people including servants? I know it doesn't really matter, but back in Dragonfly in Amber, when they were all deciding what one was to do with potatoes Jamie made a big deal in pointing out that he didn't know Claire could even cook. And Claire acknowledges that she really can't, but probably could manage to boil a potato. But now she can not only cook, but can mentally calculate how much food she has and will need to feed people for a meal and a winter? Like I said, it's not really important, but it's been nagging at me anyway.

Edited September 11, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[GHScorpiosRule]

Maybe she learned when she returned to the 20th Century and during her years married to Frank?

 

Who knows?

 

My issue with Claire is wow--she can do surgery, is a neurosurgeon, a dentist, an obgyn! Can kill wolves and bears too!

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, and don't forget, an ophthalmologist, as well!

 

That actually doesn't bother me too much, to be honest. Doctors used to be more general in their practices. Country doctors were especially known for their abilities to treat many different disciplines, even in the 1950s when Claire was training as a doctor. Granted, they had books and colleges to consult whereas Claire apparently just has a library of medical knowledge stored in her brain now. That's the only part that trips me up at times--hey maybe she has an eidetic memory?--but that she can be surgeon, dentist, midwife and eye doctor in general terms doesn't surprise me at all.

[Petunia846]

Well doesn't she also have that book from that other doctor that Jamie got her with her tools. Didn't she often consult that and try things he'd written about (sometimes with success and sometimes not...)?

[bearcatfan]

Doctors go through a rotation of specialities before actually studying the one they choose during residency. That means they will do a rotation in labor and delivery, med/surg, neurology, pediatrics etc. No matter what the specialty, they get a general exposure to all disciplines.

[DittyDotDot]

::snort:: Jamie's "seed" probably does indeed look verra fierce! ;)

 

 

Well doesn't she also have that book from that other doctor that Jamie got her with her tools. Didn't she often consult that and try things he'd written about (sometimes with success and sometimes not...)?

 

She does indeed have his notebook, but mostly it was filled with his notes on blood-letting and using the urine of man-children as cures. I can't recall anything in it being of use to Claire, but it does seem she enjoyed reading it.

 

Which leads me to: How long was Claire a bonified surgeon before she went back through the stones. Brianna would've been 5 or 6 years old when she started medical school, and then there would've been a period residency following...so maybe 5 years a surgeon? It's not particularly important, I'm having a hard time remembering the actual time-table here. 

[bearcatfan]

Which leads me to: How long was Claire a bonified surgeon before she went back through the stones. Brianna would've been 5 or 6 years old when she started medical school, and then there would've been a period residency following...so maybe 5 years a surgeon? It's not particularly important, I'm having a hard time remembering the actual time-table here. 

Years of residency vary upon the specialty with the most common being 4. General surgeons have a total of 5 years of residency. A neurosurgeon requires 7 years of residency. I had to look it up because I didn't remember.

 

I'm assuming Claire was a general surgeon. So if she started med school when Bree was 5, she would have completed her residency when she was 13. FYI, once you graduate from med school, you are considered a doctor.

[AD55]

Years of residency vary upon the specialty with the most common being 4. General surgeons have a total of 5 years of residency. A neurosurgeon requires 7 years of residency. I had to look it up because I didn't remember.

 

I'm assuming Claire was a general surgeon. So if she started med school when Bree was 5, she would have completed her residency when she was 13. FYI, once you graduate from med school, you are considered a doctor.

Wasn't Claire chief of staff, for the surgical department if not the entire hospital, when she went through the stones? I recall thinking she'd had a meteoric rise during a time when women were discriminated against in the workplace even worse than they are now. Or I could be misremembering as I so often do with these books.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Wasn't Claire chief of staff, for the surgical department if not the entire hospital, when she went through the stones? I recall thinking she'd had a meteoric rise during a time when women were discriminated against in the workplace even worse than they are now. Or I could be misremembering as I so often do with these books.

 

It's buiks!!!

 

Ahem.

 

No, she was Chief of Surgery* and then there was that (putting in spoilers because I can't recall which buik it was revealed)

investigation when she was thought to have killed a patient who was terminal

and I seem to recall her giving up the position when she made the choice to go back through the Stones to find Jamie.

 

*Corrected per DittyDotDot's post below.

Edited September 12, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[DittyDotDot]

Years of residency vary upon the specialty with the most common being 4. General surgeons have a total of 5 years of residency. A neurosurgeon requires 7 years of residency. I had to look it up because I didn't remember.

 

I'm assuming Claire was a general surgeon. So if she started med school when Bree was 5, she would have completed her residency when she was 13. FYI, once you graduate from med school, you are considered a doctor.

 

Is this current standards? Claire went to med school in the 1950s, would it have been different then? Sorry, like I said, it doesn't matter, just something I was thinking about. But, if she was a surgeon for only six years (Brianna was 19 when she went back through the stones, IRC)...wow, good on Claire becoming head of surgery in six years! And she being a woman, too.

 

Wasn't Claire chief of staff, for the surgical department if not the entire hospital, when she went through the stones? I recall thinking she'd had a meteoric rise during a time when women were discriminated against in the workplace even worse than they are now. Or I could be misremembering as I so often do with these books.

 

I don't think she was chief of staff, but I did think she was head of surgery though. She did resign her position before she went through the stones again. And, there had been an investigation due to her helping a terminal patient euthanize himself (It was in Voyager Claire reveals it, GHScorpiosRule).

Edited September 12, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[bearcatfan]

Wasn't Claire given that position because the hospital wanted her to stay away from the patients after that incident? Or at least isn't that what Claire thought?

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, I think you're right, bearcatfan, it was largely administrative and she wouldn't have the time to treat patients.

 

On another note: Wedding day number two is starting to drag too. What's up with that? I did find it interesting how Claire noticed how different Roger looked compared to that British officer, like he didn't quite fit as a man of that time. And, Claire's own out-of-time quality got her into trouble with Wylie. Little late in the game for this to finally happen, but still.

[DittyDotDot]

So, this book is the Agatha Christie murder mystery one of the lot, eh? "Miss Marple" indeed. Now the structure of the beginning of this book is starting to make more sense. It seems each book has it's own genre feel to it in some way.

 

Oh, and, interesting about the Stuart gold. If the Cameron chests are buried in Scotland, I wonder where Dougal's part of it ended up? Oh, and if the third party turns out to be auld Simon Fraser, I'm going to laugh my ass off!

[DittyDotDot]

Meep. Oh, Roger!

 

So, we've reached the stupidity portion of this book, I guess. Why the fuck would Roger kiss his great-whatever granie? I mean, I get it, Roger and Bree don't seem to really see themselves as in danger back in this time...it's like a walk through a history museum to them, most days, but I didn't take Roger for being that stupid. Was it not sufficient that Roger was behind enemy lines and had convinced Husband to leave? And, Bree just riding up onto the battlefield like that seemed a little too easy and convenient for my taste.

 

However, if we follow form, there will be a huge emotional fallout out from this, right? I mean, I have yet to find one of these horrific story points gratuitous in this series. How we get there sometimes can be unnecessarily convoluted, but Gabaldon does always deal with it and the characters carry it with them from that point on. It's not done just for shock value, nor is it taken lightly or skipped over, IMO.

 

On another note: holy crap was Jamie scary taring across that battlefield! 

[justcris]

Well I have to say I'm 40% into this book and I'm having a hard time getting through it. I hope something good happens at the wedding, otherwise I might just give up.

 

I almost gave up midway through the 3rd book but with everyone's encouragement here I prevailed. I hope I prevail now too, but it hasn't been easy.

[Petunia846]

This was the hardest one for me to get through.

[DittyDotDot]

Well I have to say I'm 40% into this book and I'm having a hard time getting through it. I hope something good happens at the wedding, otherwise I might just give up.

 

I'll only say something does happen at the wedding, but I'll leave it up to you to decide whether it was good or not. 

 

I don't know, I'm about 75 percent through it. and it seems to be dragging again.  It has spurts of things I find interesting, but mostly it seems to be lacking in focus--much like Voyager did, but without the neck-breaking pace. I'm assuming all the different plot lines are going to start converging now, so things should be looking up, right?

[chocolatetruffle]

This book is very plot-light, so if that's your thing you will likely find it harder to get through.  It is more about establishing emotional connections and relationships, especially if you like the characters of Roger and Jamie.  Don't want to say more, because I don't want to spoil you any further.

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, I don't mind the plot-light of the book, it just doesn't seem to be hitting the markers I'd like it to. Drums of Autumn was plot-light too, but emotional beats it hit in the second half of the book made it worth-while to me. Which, I've noticed with all these books, the payoff seems to come late (like almost 75 percent through the books), but the payoff is generally worth it. So, if I can just be patient, I believe the payoff will come.

Edited September 14, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[DittyDotDot]

Oh man, the snake bite stuff and Jamie agreeing to teach Roger to fight so they could hunt Bonnet together...that's good stuff. The whole buffalo killing scene was so absolutely ludicrous though. I know, I know, that's to be expected with Gabaldon. She can never just leave well enough alone, can she?

 

I'm liking this respect and kinship growing between Roger and Jamie, but it also got me to thinking about Fergus. While not Jamie's natural-born son, he's is Jamie's son. I wish we got more insight into how Fergus sees things sometimes. And, I now see why Gabaldon felt the need to send wee Ian off to live with the natives. I think it would've been hard for this relationship between Roger and Jamie to grow like it has if Ian were around.

 

BTW, I got so giddy when they were standing up on the ridge trying to figure what kind of beasts those were. I was murmuring, "They're buffalo! Get to it lads and get yourself a buffalo...it'll probably feed the entire "clan" for the winter." And then, Roger screamed like a little girl when faced to face with one and Jamie said practically the same thing. Even though it's a bit of a stretch for them to have been living on the ridge for three years now (I think it's been three years anyway) and hadn't seen a buffalo before now, I really liked the hunting scenes.

Edited September 15, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[DittyDotDot]

Oh Roger! I seem to be saying that a lot in this book, but the story he told Bree of how his mother died...sniff.

 

Aww, Jenny finally forgave Jamie, now Ian can return, right?

[Laurie]

but the story he told Bree of how his mother died...sniff

 

 

I recommend you read "A Leaf on the Wind of All Hallows" because there's more to that story in there.  But wait to read it before you read MOBY because it impacts that book as well.

[chocolatetruffle]

Oh Roger! I seem to be saying that a lot in this book, but the story he told Bree of how his mother died...sniff.

 

 

This was one of my favorite moments in this book (and I have many favs).  I always liked Roger but didn't realize how deeply I cared about the guy until this book.  

 

I don't know if you've ever seen the movie Dr. Zhivago but there is a similar moment in that movie that gets to me.  

 

 

I recommend you read "A Leaf on the Wind of All Hallows" because there's more to that story in there.  But wait to read it before you read MOBY because it impacts that book as well.

 

I'm midway through MOBY right now.  Will have to read this after I finish because I think I know what you mean about how it impacts that book.

Edited September 16, 2015 by chocolatetruffle

[DittyDotDot]

I recommend you read "A Leaf on the Wind of All Hallows" because there's more to that story in there.  But wait to read it before you read MOBY because it impacts that book as well.

 

Wait, are you saying I should A Leaf on the Wind of All Hallows first? 

[Laurie]

Well...actually after I posted that I got to thinking about it and you probably could/should wait until after MOBY. I was going to edit my posting but work called me away. The Nerve!

[DittyDotDot]

Not-so-wee-anymore Ian has returned!!! Oh, and the things he brought with him, verra interesting.

 

I thought I was going to get a chance to finish this before heading off to work today. Dagnabit, why'd I have to fall asleep so quickly last night? Just when it's all coming together, too. Sigh.

 

So, Master Raymond was in 1968, eh? Verra interesting, indeed! Also, would it be safe to assume that Otter Tooth will probably be a descendant of Bree and Roger? Wow. Lots to think about here.

[Petunia846]

I don't think it's conclusive that THE Master Raymond was in 1968. Also, I doubt Otter Tooth was a descendant of Bree and Roger. I've actually never even thought of that. What made you think of it? I haven't read this book in awhile.

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, I don't know, I was just being silly--intonation seems to be very difficult for me over the internet. It's just that it seems like everyone is a descendant of someone we know in this series and he can time travel, so he must have gotten the ability from some where. Like I said, just being a bit silly. 

 

So, I finished it and gotta say, it was just okay. I just feel like it didn't quite reach what it set out to do. Still though, some interesting ideas and helps further the story. I still feel like Bree is a very thin character, though. I don't dislike her or anything, just don't feel like I really know all that much about what makes her tick. I mean, I know she's very athletic,  can build stuff and has a temper, but couldn't tell you how she feels about much of anything. Oh well, wee Ian is back so that should be good.

 

Off to download the next one... 

Edited September 17, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[DittyDotDot]

I forgot to mention: I thought it was so stupid how Roger and Jamie tried to lure Bonnet to Wylie's landing. They weren't even secretive about it. Did they really think Bonnet would just show up? And, then the big reveal of Lilywhite was so...

 

So, is it safe to assume that Bonnet is now rendered useless in the child making process? Which just leads me to conclude that Stephen Bonnet ::cough:: Black Jack ::cough:: will become some sort of reluctant ally ::cough:: spy ::cough:: in the future. 

 

Oh, and wee Germain is a delightful little devil, isn't he? "Shoot him!" Seems as though Germain and Jemmy might be set up to be like Ian and Jamie were in their youths. That should be good fun!

 

Now that I've had some time to think about it, I think this book might be setting the stage for the next two. The story kinda weaved around from one story thread to the other--introducing us to a whole host of new people who I'm sure will be important later even if it doesn't seem like they do right now--and didn't have a great deal of focus. So, I'm thinking I may look back on this book more fondly after I have read the next ones?

[justcris]

I finally finished this too, although personally I thought the payoff wasn't worth all the setup. I kept waiting for something to happen, and then it did, and I still felt pretty blah about it. 

I'm still pondering whether or not to give book 6 a chance.

[DittyDotDot]

I finally finished this too, although personally I thought the payoff wasn't worth all the setup. I kept waiting for something to happen, and then it did, and I still felt pretty blah about it. 

I'm still pondering whether or not to give book 6 a chance.

 

I know what you mean, justcris. I'll just say that, whereas, The Fiery Cross reminded me a lot of Voyager, just less busy; so far, book six has reminded me of Drums of Autumn. I'm only about 60 percent in and, so far, it's had a better focus and filled with quite a few nice character beats. It's still rather plot-light in many ways, but it seems to be paying off some of the meandering from The Fiery Cross.

 

I don't know if that will help you with your decision making?

[justcris]

I do have book 6 on my e-reader already, so maybe I'll give it a try. 

Thanks for the input DittyDotDot!

[DittyDotDot]

You know, when I read the book I didn't really take note of all the feces and such, but after reading the thread I realized there was a great deal of it in this book. It doesn't bother me as much as some of the long-winded descriptions of some of the medical procedures later, but quite possibly it was a bit overkill? I do distinctly remember thinking I could've had less descriptions about the state of Beardsley, though. That whole section seemed to really drag for me. Although, I did find Claire trying to get Jamie to say "mmphh" later, quite endearing. And the stuff at Brownsville with Roger and Fergus cracked me up too. Roger was all hotheaded and threatening while Fergus just strode in calmly. They actually make for a good team, IMO.

 

I also didn't find the jokes about Irish kings and mares all that funny. 

 

I'm sure this is something Gabaldon game across in research and just had to include it, but I too was kind of perplexed by it's necessity at first. But then after the day was over, I realized the dream was foretelling of what Jamie had in store for the day. The way everything seemed to go wrong and all that, but he kept trying to make it work anyway and in the end had to take it in his own hands to get the bairns baptized. I now mostly find it interesting because of Jamie's vivid-dreaming.

 

Another reason was female force against Bonnet and Brianna's sort of revenge. It's a scenario done to death (women dealing with great evil alone while their men are out doing their male stuff) but at this point I was so sick with all that male fixation of vengeance that I wanted to clap when Fraser&McKenzie girls dealt with it on their own.

 

And, thank God they did! That was just the dumbest plan the men had thought of to deal out vengeance anyway. Unless I missed something, they basically let it be known they wanted to kill Bonnet and then invited him to the event...yeah, I saw him not showing up coming miles away.

 

Anyway, I love two things about the ladies taking care of business. First, Claire insisting they shoot Bonnet no matter the consequences to her. She was right, Bonnet would kill them all. Second, I love Jamie's response by telling Claire she did right, but never do it again. In fact, I always get a kick out of Jamie telling Claire to never do something again. I know, weird thing to get a kick out of.

[Petunia846]

Second, I love Jamie's response by telling Claire she did right, but never do it again. In fact, I always get a kick out of Jamie telling Claire to never do something again. I know, weird thing to get a kick out of.

 

I love that too. Every time.

[DittyDotDot]

For me it's the opposite. I quite enjoyed reading about the medical procedures, at least most of them. I liked the scene with tonsils removal and was fascinated by penicillin cultures. But I was seriously rolling my eyes at Roger learning a crass French song about - but of course! - defecating. And it was discussed merrily by the family when they had supper. So I found it quite funny when they were all suddenly blushing and acting embarrassed while Claire was explaining genetic to them and using words like "testicles". Bloody hypocrites :-))

 

I meant some of the medical procedures in later books. I actually find the medicine Claire employs rather fascinating, but in the next two books there's a couple really long-winded descriptions that I found rather tedious to read through. They're interesting procedures and medical maladies, to be sure, it's just the writing of them gets out of hand, IMO. But, such is Gabaldon's way and one has to make peace with it to make it this far in the series, right? ;)

 

 

Speaking of poignant, I think it was FC that featured Jenny's letter to Jamie. Another touch of brilliancy that made me a bit tearful.

 

Yes! I also enjoyed how it led to the bit of Jamie being jealous over Laoghaire taking a lover, too. This book is really Jamie and Roger's book, IMO.

[DittyDotDot]

She sometimes focuses and fixates on the most bizzare stuff (like every single tree needed to be described with egregious details when Claire and Jamie were traveling from River Run to future Fraser Ridge and I'm not sure how many pages it took for Claire to talk to Otter's Tooth's skull but sure it was damn long) so some of her books are bloated. But on the other hand she seems to gloss over quite important IMO things. I had that issue with DOA. I felt like some chapters were missing after Bree met Jamie for the first time. I was expecting some form of introduction/interactions between her and Jamie's extended family (Ian, Fergus, Marsali et all), something between her and Claire, more "getting to know each other" between Bree and Jamie (before their relationship reached a boiling point when Bonnet/Roger horrible misunderstaning plotline took off) and above it all, the reconciliation between father and daughter. I thought their fight was such a huge thing, so many horrible words have been said and...nothing? Claire and Lord John watching them hug each other from a distance? Color me disappointed.

 

I know what you mean, I generally feel like Jamie's POV is overlooked more than it should be. Oh, we get Jamie's POV from time to time, but it's generally of him lusting for Claire or tearing across a battlefield; we hardly ever rest with him for more than these short little glimpses and they rarely actually illuminate Jamie's frame of mind on the bigger picture. Voyager was probably the only time we had much from Jamie's perspective and even then it was mostly limited to his time living in the cave. The rest of it was still him recounting things to Lord John and Claire, but those conversations were from Lord John and Claire's POV not Jamie's. I sometimes feel a slight bit of whiplash when we suddenly jump forward in the story and have another character recount something Jamie told them rather than just having it from Jamie himself. I wonder if Diana just doesn't actually "feel" Jamie's voice like she does with Claire, Lord John and Roger? It is hard to sometimes get inside of Jamie's head as a a result.

 

 

Okay, I was reminded about another thing I loved about "Fiery Cross". Ian Mhor's nephew's quiet ways of caring for Roger, when he was recovering from his near hanging. They learned it around their disfigured, terribly sick yet stalwart uncle. This was just one of many stories told in this big novel but also one of many flashes of deep humanity we see through the entire series, which for me is one of its running themes. Those books are sometimes full of bone-chilling violence to the point of being off putting. Yet...there is always, always something deeply empathetic at their core, something about the way Claire, Jamie and their family relate to people around them, reach out to others. And how others reach out to them in return. See everything that transpired when Jamie was bite by the snake.

It's hard to grasp but it's one of the best aspects of the series IMO.

 

Yes, there is this weird dichotomy to Diana's writing. I was having the hardest time explaining the books to a co-worker the other day. I was saying how the books were and interesting premise, but not always the best written and sometimes I seriously would question what was wrong with me for continuing to read them. He asked me why I did...all I could say was, sometimes she does get it so very right and I found those moments were worth wading through the rest. 

[DittyDotDot]

I think she may find it easier to get into the heads of characters who are from XX century and that's why she sticks to it mostly. To sit in the head of a character whose mentality is much different than modern way of thinking, could be difficult in a long run.

But it's a pity because I really enjoyed Jamie's POV in "Voyager", his constant swirl of thoughts and reflections, whenever he was around Lallybroch, when he was living with the Dunsany's and his POV intrertwined with Lord John's when both of them were getting to know each other in Ardsmuir. I still like Claire's POV the best but I would like to see more of his...it was particulary needed in DOA when they went off to search for Roger. Everyone POV was included but his.

 

I was at first thinking the same thing and was thinking it could actually be an unintended stroke of brilliance having the travelers be the POV characters--as though they're the observers. But then I got to thinking of how she does use Lord John and a few of other "historical" character's POV--especially in later books--and yet still Jamie's point of view will be missing. I actually find it equally a shame we never get Fergus's perspective. Even in Written in My Own Heart's Blood, where everyone and their sister gets some POV, I don't recall any from Fergus. Now I'm probably going to be thinking about this all day. ;)

 

Which book is your favourite DDD?

 

Man, that's really a hard question to answer. Other than me not being very good at picking favorites, there are things I absolutely adore and find frustrating in all of them. I guess it might be a toss up between Outlander--the writing is the roughest, but the characters and the setting is most vivid--and Voyager--I almost gave up on sometime after they set sail, but now I find myself thinking of that book more than any other. The rest wouldn't be far behind though--The Fiery Cross, A Breath of Snow and Ashes; Drums of Autumn; An Echo in the Bone; Written in My Own Heart's Blood; and I'd say Dragonfly in Amber is probably my least favorite.

 

It's weird though, I tend to resist reading book series because I find the following books never seem to engage me as much as the first one did. But Gabaldon has managed to keep me reading and interested in these characters. 

[DittyDotDot]

Speaking of Fergus, I don't recall him being there for Jamie when Claire was giving him penicillin injections. Roger was there holding him and Lizzie's father I think, but I can't remember Fergus and it's weird. I think he sort of disappeared when Young Ian and Roger entered a picture and it's a bit of shame.

 

I felt the same way. At one moment, Jamie was telling Marsali how great Fergus did to keep the men together and find them and all...and that's the last we hear of Fergus till they all go to Wilmington and Fergus heads off camera again to file the surveys and get the titles for the land. A lot of what happens to Fergus seems to happen off screen, in general. It's a pity since I tend to adore his always calm and collected manner, myself. ;)

[asp]

With the question of the French gold thus settled, they returned to what had become their routine; a brief period of formal negotiation over the affairs of the prisoners, followed by informal conversation and sometimes a game of chess. This evening, they had come from the dinner table, still discussing Samuel Richardson’s immense novel Pamela.

“Do you think that the size of the book is justified by the complexity of the story?” Grey asked, leaning forward to light a cheroot from the candle on the sideboard. “It must after all be a great expense to the publisher, as well as requiring a substantial effort from the reader, a book of that length.”

Fraser smiled. He did not smoke himself, but had chosen to drink port this evening, claiming that to be the only drink whose taste would be unaffected by the stink of tobacco.

“What is it—twelve hundred pages? Aye, I think so. After all, it is difficult to sum up the complications of a life in a short space with any hope of constructing an accurate account.”

“True. I have heard the point made, though, that the novelist’s skill lies in the artful selection of detail. Do you not suppose that a volume of such length may indicate a lack of discipline in such selection, and hence a lack of skill?”

Fraser considered, sipping the ruby liquid slowly.

“I have seen books where that is the case, to be sure,” he said. “An author seeks by sheer inundation of detail to overwhelm the reader into belief.

In this case, however, I think it isna so. Each character is most carefully considered, and all the incidents chosen seem necessary to the story. No, I think it is true that some stories simply require a greater space in which to be told.” He took another sip and laughed.

 

 

 

 

I came accross this in Voyager and kept thinking she was giving us a sort of explanation for the lenghth of her own books...

 

 

[DittyDotDot]

Oh yeah, that gave me a huge chuckle at the time.

 

I also got a chuckle out of both Jamie and Claire reading romance novels in their spare time. Jamie's description of it is kinda priceless: "The type of mental engagement demanded was somewhat different from that required for the works of Messieurs Defoe and Fielding, but he was not adverse to variety."

 

It's nice to know Diana doesn't take herself too seriously. 

[Wouldofshouldof]

I came to the Outlander series late in the game.  I ignored season 1 when it aired, then prior to S2's premier Entertainment Weekly said some nice things about it so I binged S1 on demand in time to start watching S2 live.  I then read Outlander in 4 days, and each of the subsequent books in about a week each.  While they can drag on, I have no problem skimming when it's called for.

Reading all of your comments about how the beginning of FC was so tedious, but to stick with it because it got better, helped, so thanks everyone!  When I finished Drums of Autumn, the library had a 2-week wait for FC (and I won't pay for books cuz I'm both poor and cheap), and it was killing me to have to wait.  Amazon's sneak preview of FC was quite extensive and got me all the way to chapter 11 before I could get my library copy, so I was well into it by the time I finally got my hands on it.  Since I figured the person who had FC checked out would go on to Breath next, forcing me to wait for that as well, I checked it out in advance of receiving FC.  Now that I've finished FC, I have Breath waiting for me - YAY!

All of which is to say I loved it as much as all of the others and really am trying to slow down because I'm going to go into withdrawal when I finish book 8.  At least the wait for book 9 will be shorter for me than it has been for the rest of you!

I'll insert some quotes here to attract your attention to this dusty old thread:

On 9/11/2014 at 8:17 AM, WatchrTina said:

Ah, the return of Ian.  I did NOT see it coming and when it happened I just about cried for joy.

I did cry, as well as clapped for joy!

On 11/22/2015 at 6:23 PM, DittyDotDot said:

You know, when I read the book I didn't really take note of all the feces and such, but after reading the thread I realized there was a great deal of it in this book

When Jemmy got into Claire's surgery and the sapphire from her pouch was lost amongst all the mess he'd made, I was certain we'd be treated to scenes of Claire and Bree searching through his "clouts" for the stone.  That never transpired though, so I guess it was lost for good?  Unless it turns up in another book?

Edited June 24, 2016 by Wouldofshouldof