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S02.E11 Midnight Train to Royston


Whimsy
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why Rebecca/Sam is morally and professionally wrong

Whose morals? They're both consenting adults.  Sam could go to war and die but shouldn't be able to love who he wants to love? People can find inequality in any relationship whether an age gap exists or not.  

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31 minutes ago, braziliangirl said:

I think he already received an offer from Rupert. That's how I interpreted him asking people if they wanted to be the boss. Maybe he was conflicted with the decision. His words about Ted (when he was speaking to Beard and Roy) could be the words that Rupert said to him to convince him to go to another team. And his scene with Keeley made him go to the dark side (to feel less of a failure or embarrassment). 

I can definitely see Rupert offering Nate a job coaching the team he's going to buy, but I'd expect it to be a disingenuous offer that's predicated on Nate spilling the secrets he knows about Ted, Rebecca and the club. Then Rupert withdraws the offer after the damage is done, because why would he see any value in Nate?

This is where I expect Ted to be the one to reach out to Nate and, if not give him his job back, at least forgive him for what he's done. I don't want him to do it, but I think he will, because Ted's whole moral philosophy is built around the idea that you should look for the best in people. Ted will recognise how Nate's actions have been driven by his dad as well (like everyone else in this show... does Bill Lawrence have issues with his own father, I wonder?).

Edited by Danny Franks
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27 minutes ago, AngieBee1 said:
Quote

why Rebecca/Sam is morally and professionally wrong

Whose morals? They're both consenting adults.  Sam could go to war and die but shouldn't be able to love who he wants to love? People can find inequality in any relationship whether an age gap exists or not.  

Yeah, I can agree with professionally, and possibly ethically, but morally?  I don't think I'd go that far.

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1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

I can definitely see Rupert offering Nate a job coaching the team he's going to buy, but I'd expect it to be a disingenuous offer that's predicated on Nate spilling the secrets he knows about Ted, Rebecca and the club. Then Rupert withdraws the offer after the damage is done, because why would he see any value in Nate?

This is where I expect Ted to be the one to reach out to Nate and, if not give him his job back, at least forgive him for what he's done. I don't want him to do it, but I think he will, because Ted's whole moral philosophy is built around the idea that you should look for the best in people. Ted will recognise how Nate's actions have been driven by his dad as well (like everyone else in this show... does Bill Lawrence have issues with his own father, I wonder?).

Yes, it would make sense that Rupert offered Nate what he wants, power and respect, except we’re talking about Rupert and the only power/person he cares about is himself.   He will wring Nate dry and walk away with Nate as the fall guy if there are any repercussions   

With regard to Nate asking the others about wanting to be the boss,…sounds like he is trying to justify his next move.  I suspect he’s been hugging his secret knowledge to him like Gollum and the ring.    I think hitting on Keely was another power play.  Roy isn’t the only coach interested in her.  And he really does see himself as Roy’s equal or even superior.  

With Keely’s rejection, he decided to go scorched earth.   He thinks the  revelation will get Ted fired and Nate steps into his shoes (I am sure Rupert has been whispering in his ear), fires Roy and gets the girl.  Then maybe daddy will respect him.   

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3 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Starting at home, growing up Nate felt powerless because of his dad’s derision….what we don’t know is if Nate did something to earn it or if dad is a dick and just enjoyed using Nate as a whipping boy.   Because of this, he doesn’t want approval or to feel appreciated, he wants to feel powerful and show daddy just how important he is so he can, metaphorically I hope, spit in the old man’s face.  

Because of his upbringing, he views any criticism, even joking, to be another put down indicating lack of the respect he so desperately craves.  Likewise, a lack of praise/credit is, in Nate’s mind, a lack of respect.  Even the moment with Keely.  He has no idea how to deal with women and thinks friendliness is indicative of interest.   He isn’t really interested in her beyond the fact she was nice to him  

I think Nate humiliating … Ted is a stand in for him doing the same to daddy.  

Ted being Ted, maybe he will take the initiative and use this as a chance to talk about mental health. He will be a hero for this. And Nate will spiral further down, especially if Ted fires him.  

These are all fair points, but I also think that Nate has had what, a year and a half under Ted, and he still chooses mean.  After Rebecca shared her little trick to pump herself up, he decides his thing will be to spit (and we've seen him twice spit in a mirror and not clean it off).  Jamie is an example in season 1 of how Ted influenced him to improve (if not in a bit of a round-about way), priming him I think for the self-examination he had to do after he got dumped from Man City and then ask Ted to take him back.  Nate consistently skews mean/angry/evil.  He didn't take another job, which on some level Ted may have been hurt by but would ultimately have I think supported.  He chose to attack Ted, the man who has shown him kindess, support, promoted him, etc., and betray him on a really base level.  We've seen Beard try to get through to him twice, once with Roy backing him up. 

I don't think Ted can (or should) fix everyone, and I'd like to see him learn that lesson...he needs to keep some kindness and energy for himself in order to heal.  Nate is no longer worth his energy.

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23 minutes ago, lauridsen said:

These are all fair points, but I also think that Nate has had what, a year and a half under Ted, and he still chooses mean.  After Rebecca shared her little trick to pump herself up, he decides his thing will be to spit (and we've seen him twice spit in a mirror and not clean it off).  Jamie is an example in season 1 of how Ted influenced him to improve (if not in a bit of a round-about way), priming him I think for the self-examination he had to do after he got dumped from Man City and then ask Ted to take him back.  Nate consistently skews mean/angry/evil.  He didn't take another job, which on some level Ted may have been hurt by but would ultimately have I think supported.  He chose to attack Ted, the man who has shown him kindess, support, promoted him, etc., and betray him on a really base level.  We've seen Beard try to get through to him twice, once with Roy backing him up. 

I don't think Ted can (or should) fix everyone, and I'd like to see him learn that lesson...he needs to keep some kindness and energy for himself in order to heal.  Nate is no longer worth his energy.

Good points, Especially about Ted learning he can’t fix everyone.    I do think there are two differences between Jamie and Nate.   Jaimie has been a star…maybe not always in his dad’s eyes, but he is genuinely good and football and knows it.  What has Nate ever done to brag about except that one time Ted praised him.  Even that moment he owed to Ted.  

Secondly, Jamie is younger.  I think he was genuinely trying to connect and is grateful to Ted and Roy.  He showed his vulnerability, crying after the scene with his dad, and the team, symbolically represented by Roy, embraced him.  Must have really chaffed at Nate.
Nate is in his 30s.  He has had a lot longer to become bitter, serving a bunch of much younger guys who are being lionized because they can kick a ball around the pitch and being the butt of their humour until Ted came along.  They may not rag on him much anymore, but, again, because of Ted.  

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25 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Nate is in his 30s.

I legit started out with this show thinking he was supposed to be in his mid-20s, closer to the age of Will (who seems so young in comparison).  I still can't fully wrap my head around it tbh.

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37 minutes ago, lauridsen said:

I legit started out with this show thinking he was supposed to be in his mid-20s, closer to the age of Will (who seems so young in comparison).  I still can't fully wrap my head around it tbh.

Same here.  But the grey hair can only mean to show he is 30s.   The actor turns 41 this year. 

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3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I can definitely see Rupert offering Nate a job coaching the team he's going to buy, but I'd expect it to be a disingenuous offer that's predicated on Nate spilling the secrets he knows about Ted, Rebecca and the club. Then Rupert withdraws the offer after the damage is done, because why would he see any value in Nate?

This is where I expect Ted to be the one to reach out to Nate and, if not give him his job back, at least forgive him for what he's done. I don't want him to do it, but I think he will, because Ted's whole moral philosophy is built around the idea that you should look for the best in people. Ted will recognise how Nate's actions have been driven by his dad as well (like everyone else in this show... does Bill Lawrence have issues with his own father, I wonder?).

I feel like maybe this is why Rupert's wife gave her share to Rebecca - basically, some insider trading. Rupert knows something bad will happen (because he's behind it) and he got his money out before the shit hit the fan.

And while I suspect Ted is going to be nicer to Nate than I want him to, there has to be consequences for actions. Nate hasn't just blundered into some dumb mistakes, he's committed cruel acts. Repeatedly. He just did it publicly this time. And he's just not on the same page as everyone else - when the team was celebrating getting the choreo down, Beard and Roy were clapping for them, and Nate was just standing there with a sour expression. Even if Ted forgives him, I call BS if everyone else does and just welcomes into the fold.

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2 minutes ago, Kostgard said:

I feel like maybe this is why Rupert's wife gave her share to Rebecca - basically, some insider trading. Rupert knows something bad will happen (because he's behind it) and he got his money out before the shit hit the fan.

And while I suspect Ted is going to be nicer to Nate than I want him to, there has to be consequences for actions. Nate hasn't just blundered into some dumb mistakes, he's committed cruel acts. Repeatedly. He just did it publicly this time. And he's just not on the same page as everyone else - when the team was celebrating getting the choreo down, Beard and Roy were clapping for them, and Nate was just standing there with a sour expression. Even if Ted forgives him, I call BS if everyone else does and just welcomes into the fold.

Since the show was envisioned with a 3 season initial arc, one possible resolution near the end of next season could come from Jamie reaching out to Nate bonding over their common father issues.   Jamie is learning to be a better man… maybe he can help Nate, but only if Nate really wants to improve himself….

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17 minutes ago, Kostgard said:

And while I suspect Ted is going to be nicer to Nate than I want him to, there has to be consequences for actions. Nate hasn't just blundered into some dumb mistakes, he's committed cruel acts. Repeatedly. He just did it publicly this time. And he's just not on the same page as everyone else - when the team was celebrating getting the choreo down, Beard and Roy were clapping for them, and Nate was just standing there with a sour expression. Even if Ted forgives him, I call BS if everyone else does and just welcomes into the fold.

Beard is definitely onto Nate. Too many shots of him just silently watching as Nate said or did something unkind - scenes like when Nate said he wanted to be a tiger and maul his enemies, where he bitched about Ted getting credit for his ideas,  and there was that scene when he actually took him to task for his "personal and weird" attack on Will. He's too much of an astute observer to have not picked up on everything, and likely only showed forbearance because he and Ted have been friends with Nate. Now that's over, I expect him to be advising Ted that some things shouldn't be forgiven. We know how Roy will react - "that ungrateful little prick, after everything you've done for him he goes and squeals to the press."

And the thing is, anything Ted or the other coaches say to him now to reprimand him is likely to send him spiralling even further into feeling victimised and persecuted.

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The scene of Ted reading Sharon's letter was so well done. We didn't need to see what it said to know how much it meant to Ted because the actors' facial expressions conveyed everything. It makes total sense why Ted would need to say goodbye because he needs that closure, but he also understood that Sharon didn't like goodbyes so he leaves her the goodbye note and the drink. Perfect.

Ultimately, I don't think Sam will leave the team, but it shouldn't be because of Rebecca. It's understandable that they're struggling with their feelings, but that's exactly why they shouldn't be involved. It's not so much the age difference (though it is weird to me) but that Rebecca is Sam's boss and there's a conflict of interest. And it's odd that none of the characters are pointing this out.

I do not like what's happening to Roy and Keeley right now. I think it's good that they're both being honest, because it's refreshing to see, but I also get why Roy is bothered by what Jamie said since Keeley waited to tell him. I'm hoping it's just a rough patch and they'll figure things out.

Nate is the actual worst. I understand why he is the way he is, but that doesn't make it ok. And I expected better of Trent Crimm: The Independent, especially after the article he wrote about Ted last season. Yeah, he revealed the source, but he also said he had to run the story because of journalistic integrity or whatever, which, no. Just because you get a scoop doesn't mean you have to use it, especially when it's about someone's private mental health issues. Nate and Trent Crimm can both kick rocks.

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17 minutes ago, phalange said:

Nate is the actual worst. I understand why he is the way he is, but that doesn't make it ok. And I expected better of Trent Crimm: The Independent, especially after the article he wrote about Ted last season. Yeah, he revealed the source, but he also said he had to run the story because of journalistic integrity or whatever, which, no. Just because you get a scoop doesn't mean you have to use it, especially when it's about someone's private mental health issues. Nate and Trent Crimm can both kick rocks.

I'm going to give Trent Crimm, The Independent, the benefit of the doubt that he gave this story the same compassionate/respectful treatment as the story he wrote in season 1.  That said, I also think it likely that if he refused to run the story, Nate would have just found someone else (i.e. the scummy reporter who was needling Rebecca about Rupert's affairs in season 1) who would write an absolutely awful, hurtful, ill-informed story. 

So, I'm holding out hope that I can continue to love Trent Crimm, The Independent.

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3 minutes ago, lauridsen said:

I'm going to give Trent Crimm, The Independent, the benefit of the doubt that he gave this story the same compassionate/respectful treatment as the story he wrote in season 1.  That said, I also think it likely that if he refused to run the story, Nate would have just found someone else (i.e. the scummy reporter who was needling Rebecca about Rupert's affairs in season 1) who would write an absolutely awful, hurtful, ill-informed story. 

So, I'm holding out hope that I can continue to love Trent Crimm, The Independent.

Trent Crimm, The Independent also gave up his source, which is something that journalists absolutely do not have to do. As far as I'm concerned, he did that because he didn't want Ted agonising over who he could trust, and he didn't want Nate to escape consequences as an anonymous source. He wanted Ted to know that this was coming from someone close to him.

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I am hoping Roy’s reaction to Keeley’s  revelation about Jamie is a realization that he hasn’t told her he loves her yet.  I trust the show to keep them together.

Do not let Sharon leave.

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Roy told Keeley he loves her in the same episode Jamie did.  I assume they had said it to each other loads prior, but some people feel that was the first time he said it as it was the first time we've  seen it (which I don't agree with).

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I loved this show last year. It stole my heart and remains one of the few shows I’ve watched all the way through in a rewatch. 

I can’t tell you how profoundly I am disappointed that they seem to presenting Rebecca/Sam as a star-crossed lover story this year.  It is insane to me!  Because it’s the woman in the power position somehow it negates the power imbalance? I have no words here.
And, given this is playing out, particularly this week, when there’s massive developments showing how abuse of authority by men in charge in the womens professional soccer league has been rampant for years, this week  leading to a sexual coercion against players story finally being exposed, why the hell is this show trying to show an obviously imbalance of power in reverse relationship but the woman in charge as romantic????   
NO! Hopefully the show gets its shit together on this or I’m just so disappointed. 
 

Edited by pennben
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6 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I think that's more about Keeley and her need to please everyone and keep them happy. What Nate did was definitely not okay, but Keeley has framed it as somewhere between "poor Nate, I must have led him on" and "it was just a mistake, I won't make a fuss."

I don't think the show is letting him off, but rather showing a sadly realistic reaction that someone like Keeley, who is used to being appreciated for her looks and little else, might have in that situation.

She may reach a harsher judgement of what happened as she has more time to reflect on it, but I think it's very in character for her to immediately let him off the hook.

This. When that happened, I had two sad/mad thoughts immediately:

1. How many times has Keeley been assaulted by a "friend" or a mate of her boyfriend or another person on a photoshoot? She was so quick to pass it off and do the "it happens don't worry about it" thing that made me think that this was not the first time someone she was nice to took it over the line. Even the way she played it off when telling Roy (Nate didn't "try" to kiss you, he full on kissed you for several seconds) made me think that this has happened before and I got so sad for her.

2. What is Nate's deal with Roy? I noticed that Keeley called Nate "babe" while he was trying on the second suit (which I think is just her version of "love" or "sweets" or whatever nickname she uses for everyone), but Nate has probably only heard her say it to Roy. Then he's dressed like Roy in a black on black suit (which worked for him because the pieces actually fit, not just because it was black on black) and then there's Keeley trying to be helpful with his tie/collar (the way I'm guessing he may have seen Keeley do for Roy at the funeral or press conference or whatever) and bam, he's kissing her like that would be something she would want?!

I know Roy was the one who got everyone to stop picking on Nate and that doesn't mean that Nate needs or should be grateful (since it took until Ted showed up for that to happen, so god knows how long Roy watched it go on without saying something), but it's still odd. Roy's never pulled a power trip on Nate (that I can remember we've seen) about how Roy actually played the game and Nate's just watched it or whatever. Is Roy too much like his dad somehow?

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Here's a sign that Nate isn't the great game master he thinks he is, by process of elimination everyone is going to know who did it once they see the article.

Beard, Higgins and Roy know who Ted told in that room, they knew by how he talked he hadn't talked to anyone about it but Dr. Sharon. Higgins and Roy know Beard and Ted are a package deal and wouldn't assume Beard told. Beard and Higgins know Roy has a cast iron moral compass and would never sell out Ted like and is secure enough in his manhood he doesn't care or need to punch down (unless it's Jamie Tartt "a muppet" who he wants to die of the "incurable condition of being a little b*tch"). Roy and Beard know Higgins keeps secrets all the time, so he'd never tell. Which leaves Nate.

I figure the next episode will show Nate trying to pretend how shocked his at the article while Roy and Beard give him a death stare.

And I figure, Ted, Mr. I realized after my dad killed himself, everyone is hurting inside, will really throw Nate for a loop when he just gives him a disappointed look and says he forgives him, like he did to Rebecca. Or that he's trying to. Ted may yell and get mad in the heat of the moment, but he always tries to be the better person.

I think the team will rally around Ted, because he's built a strong team and they'll win the final game, to advance back to the Premiere league, but unlike last season where they lost the game but were a unit, this year they'll win the game, but will be scattered. I'm not sure Roy and Keely will break up over her delayed revelation about Jamie, but whatever bond Roy and Jamie had will take a hit. Sam might go play in Africa, breaking Rebecca's heart, Ted will be dealing with the fallout of his weaknesses being on display for the world. I figure Jane and Beard will break up, again and he'll be in a  dark place. And Nate will be off to work for Rupert (though Rupert isn't going to make his former kit man head coach of a new team over one great play, that the world only knows about because Roy f*cking Kent gave him the credit).

The only good that might come of the article makes Dr. Sharon check back in on Ted.

Other random thoughts:

I'm not bothered by the Sam/Rebecca thing. I know I should be the age difference/she's his boss, but it's fiction and worse happens in reality every day. And of course, Sam drives an electric car, fancy, but not a gas guzzler, like Collin's fugly lime green over priced whatever sports car that was.

The bit with the goodbye letter was both amusing and sad. First Higgins knew using a pun would get Ted to take it, then his comment about favourite being misspelled, only to transition to moving with just facial expressions. I hope we never find out what the letter said. 

And finally the NSYNC dance sequence, I loved how committed everyone was to it. As Ted pointed out it was the effort that counted.

 

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5 hours ago, lauridsen said:

I'm going to give Trent Crimm, The Independent, the benefit of the doubt that he gave this story the same compassionate/respectful treatment as the story he wrote in season 1.  That said, I also think it likely that if he refused to run the story, Nate would have just found someone else (i.e. the scummy reporter who was needling Rebecca about Rupert's affairs in season 1) who would write an absolutely awful, hurtful, ill-informed story. 

So, I'm holding out hope that I can continue to love Trent Crimm, The Independent.

The thing is, if it was real life, would it matter? Simone Biles, probably the best in the world at what she does, had a mental health crisis in Tokyo. The stress of the dealing with the abuse from Nasser, the responsibility she felt to push on as an athlete and to hold him to account. The stress of being a world class athlete in the world's biggest competition that people in the host country didn't want to happen because of rising Covid cases. All resulted in her developing a physical condition that made it unsafe for her to compete in what is essentially an extreme sport. And she is still being ripped apart by thousands of people who haven't the slightest clue about how mental and physical health interact, or about being an athlete at any level in the type of sport where mental clarity is essential for safety.

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10 hours ago, AngieBee1 said:

Whose morals? They're both consenting adults.  Sam could go to war and die but shouldn't be able to love who he wants to love? People can find inequality in any relationship whether an age gap exists or not.  

The professional wrongness creates the morality issue.  The only aspect of age that really enters into it is that it contributes to the same imbalance created by the professional situation.  The same two people, with no boss-employee tie, might still be an odd pairing, but harder to challenge morally. 

We even see the imbalance illustrated in this episode, albeit in an unexpected way.  Instead of Sam's job being threatened because of Rebecca's employer status, as would be cliche, instead he's potentially emotionally blackmailed to STAY in the job because of the inappropriate relationship.  It's the reverse of the usual cliche, but still a valid illustration of how the relationship is rubbing up inappropriatly against Sam's career. 

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4 hours ago, Penman61 said:

And I’m blaming the writers because Keeley’s poor baby under-reaction really lets Nate off the hook. (Also, he didn’t “try to kiss” you; he did, very much, on the lips, for more than an inquisitive peck.) Nate is a grown man, however stunted emotionally, and he needs to be held accountable for his gross assaultive incel-adjacent behavior. Eeeeeuw.

Really tired of media/culture letting men off the hook for assaults because they “misread the signals/moment/everything.” No you fucking didn’t. You wanted to do it, didn’t care about consent, and were pretty sure you’d get away with it. And Nate did.

I disagree with your take because it's equating an unresolved plot point with "letting a man off the hook".

You're putting a too quick, knee-jerk, unfair expectation on a character, Keeley, for not thinking clearly and misjudging the situation.  You're insisting her choices be infallible.

I know you're saying you actually blame the writers, but the plotline isn't finished.  We don't have any real resolution yet on if Nate is "let off the hook".  In fact, the progression of events, with us soon after finding out other inappropriate things Nate has done, suggests the exact opposite.  That he's likely to pay for all of it soon, that proximity illustrating for us that he's hoodwinked Keeley.  And while it's not great for female characters to be shown as gullible, it's not inconsistent with her character that she tried to be a people pleaser and didn't rake him over the coals.  

If he's magically, stupidly redeemed somehow, or the kiss completely gets subsumed in the script by his betrayal of Ted and isn't part of the upcoming confrontations of Nate, then your point will have plenty of merit.  But at this point?  You're judging the horse mid-race.  

Edited by SnarkShark
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15 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Well, this one isn't actually as far-fetched a scenario as some of the other things that have happened on the show. 

In 1995, the managing director of Birmingham City, Karren Brady, married Birmingham City striker Paul Peschisolido. I don't think anyone made much of a fuss of it at the time.... A year later, unrelated to the marriage, Birmingham sold Peschisolido to West Bromwich  Albion.

But Brady is only two years older than Peschisolido, which probably hindered any attempts to portray her as having a 'footballer toyboy' or something.

OMG the only reason I know even the slightest bit about this is because Peschisolido was one of the most famous Canadian soccer player for years (along with Craig Forrest). Thanks for the reminder!

I don't want to disregard what @pennben has brought forward regarding the imbalance of power issue, but from what we see both Sam and Rebecca are genuine in their feelings - there's no coercion, no abuse. I do agree the optics are bad, and it makes me uncomfortable because of the owner/player roles, however; Paul Reiley and Richie Burke and Bob Birarda are "alleged" serial abusers. Rebecca is not.

Edited by mledawn
Begrudgingly added "alleged"
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8 hours ago, pennben said:

I loved this show last year. It stole my heart and remains one of the few shows I’ve watched all the way through in a rewatch. 

I can’t tell you how profoundly I am disappointed that they seem to presenting Rebecca/Sam as a star-crossed lover story this year.  It is insane to me!  Because it’s the woman in the power position somehow it negates the power imbalance? I have no words here.
And, given this is playing out, particularly this week, when there’s massive developments showing how abuse of authority by men in charge in the womens professional soccer league has been rampant for years, this week  leading to a sexual coercion against players story finally being exposed, why the hell is this show trying to show an obviously imbalance of power in reverse relationship but the woman in charge as romantic????   
NO! Hopefully the show gets its shit together on this or I’m just so disappointed. 
 

Respectfully disagree.  No sexual coercion here.  They “met” online and talked for weeks before they ever met IRL.  they already had a relationship and a connection before they knew who the other peson was.  And for those that think that isn’t possible…..I met my husband and we fell in love before we ever met in person…..been together over 17 years and our 12th wedding anniversay is tomorrow.

Thats why I feel that the non-reaction everyone around them is having is not outrageous at all.  Also, everyone around them know the connection they share since they were all part of the online courtship….the team for Sam and Keely for Rebecca.

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12 hours ago, Kostgard said:

I feel like maybe this is why Rupert's wife gave her share to Rebecca - basically, some insider trading. Rupert knows something bad will happen (because he's behind it) and he got his money out before the shit hit the fan.

 

Did Rupert’s wife sell her share or just give it to Rebecca?  If she just gave the shares to Rebecca I don’t see how that qualifies as “he got his money out before the shit hit the fan.”  

I don’t see how exposing Ted’s panic attack devalues the franchise.  They are 1 win away from moving back up.  That in itself will add value if they win.

 

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20 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I was going to say that the best use of the Backstreet Boys in a sitcom is still Brooklyn Nine-Nine, but then realised the song and dance the team were doing might be Nsync.

You made me look up that clip on Youtube. Very funny. Now "I want it that way" is stuck in my head.

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At this point, Ted HAS to turn the story into consciousness-raising for mental health. It’s been treated in the show’s writing like something shameful or like he did something wrong. They need to turn this around, not continue to treat it like he’s guilty of some indiscretion. 

It’s too bad he lied about it, but very understandable and speaks to the stigma. Why it’s being treated like a scandal is beyond me.

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This episode really employed quite a few gut punches and abrupt shifts in mood. I could practically hear the *record scratch* sound effect.

Nate and Keely was feeling like a nice interlude among friends until *record scratch* Nate tried to kiss her.

Ted and Sharon having a fun night and then *record scratch* his Irish Goodbye.

Ted at home feeling happy and satisfied after a night out with Fieldstone only to come home to *record scratch* an absolutely horrifying betrayal of trust.

Sam coming home from what was essentially a trip to Nigeria to Rebecca on his front stoop. The music soundtrack even stopped which was surprisingly un-subtle. I enjoyed they day out between Sam and the billionaire. The appearance of "Banksy" was a treat and now I'm looking up Nigerian restaurants in my area. I may hit the Jamaican takeout place in the meantime.

Nate made the biggest mistake of his life. When everyone learns what he did, there will be nowhere for him to hide. Rebecca and the Diamond Dogs are going to flay him alive and I will enjoy every second. 

Rebecca's yellow blouse was gorgeous. I loved her "See you next year" to Ted.

Beard looking at the players and telling Ted that they weren't in sync only lands upon rewatch.

Edited by marceline
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7 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

If he's magically, stupidly redeemed somehow, or the kiss completely gets subsumed in the script by his betrayal of Ted and isn't part of the upcoming confrontations of Nate, then your point will have plenty of merit.  But at this point?  You're judging the horse mid-race.  

Fair. Upcoming developments could definitely change the show's take on this. But I'm betting on the assaultive, inappropriate kiss being "subsumed in the script." Would love love love to be wrong, though. :)

Edited by Penman61
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12 minutes ago, marceline said:

Beard looking at the players and telling Ted that they weren't in sync only lands upon rewatch.

I only caught this when I re-watched, such a good line. I still think B99's Backstreet Boys scene is the best use of a boy band song in a tv show, but this was pretty great as well. 

I'm going to have to agree to disagree with the opinions on the non-reactions to the Sam and Rebecca. It wouldn't be realistic for the reactions to all be negative either, but someone has to be thinking about the obvious repercussions for this and voicing them.

And yes, Sam is absolutely the Mary Sue of this show, he has been since season 1. It's always worked for him though. I do think the show tends to be all over the place with him sometimes, they want him to appear to be incredibly mature for his age but then also present him to be very young and innocent. He answers a call to his father with "Hello, Daddy," (and not that there's anything wrong with a grown man calling their father that, its that the show clearly did it for a the reason of making him appear a certain way) one episode and then he's sleeping with him boss in another. 

 Trent Crimm must be loving Richmond more than ever for all the writing opportunities they are creating for him. 

Ted better get a win soon, I feel like this season has been doing their darnedest to break him. 

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1 hour ago, rejnel said:

At this point, Ted HAS to turn the story into consciousness-raising for mental health. It’s been treated in the show’s writing like something shameful or like he did something wrong. They need to turn this around, not continue to treat it like he’s guilty of some indiscretion. 

It’s too bad he lied about it, but very understandable and speaks to the stigma. Why it’s being treated like a scandal is beyond me.

I’m going to reserve judgement until we actually see the reaction to the article from the public, the team and the fans. Frankly, we don’t know the substance of the actual article. Perhaps that click bait headline doesn’t truly reflect what Trent Crimm, The Independent writes.

I am sure that the show will use this as a consciousness raising moment on mental health and I’m sure that Ted will drive that discussion.

I’m not quite sure what Nate hoped to accomplish with this reveal: shaming Ted, expressing anger at everyone at AFC Richmond, etc. If Nate stopped to think, he would realize that Ted and the coaches would realize that he was the source. I am interested in seeing his reaction to others’ reactions. When will realize that he has betrayed the man that supported him as well as the team overall?

Ted may not view Nate’s actions as betrayal. Instead, he may believe that he failed to understand the issues that Nate is dealing with. Regardless, he has to hold Nate accountable.

Edited by Ellaria Sand
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1 hour ago, rejnel said:

At this point, Ted HAS to turn the story into consciousness-raising for mental health. It’s been treated in the show’s writing like something shameful or like he did something wrong. They need to turn this around, not continue to treat it like he’s guilty of some indiscretion. 

It’s too bad he lied about it, but very understandable and speaks to the stigma. Why it’s being treated like a scandal is beyond me.

Two thoughts:

1. Ted Lasso (the person) has no obligation to become a spokesperson for mental health issues. It’s wonderful when high profile people step forward and help destigmatize mental health issues, but they have as much a right to say “no comment” as everyone else. And Ted is obviously new to this in his life, so understandably he’s just not comfortable talking about it to the wide community yet.

2. But I certainly HOPE Ted Lasso (the show) brings the character to the point of speaking up about it. People do look to shows for representation and if it could help bring others along on the journey from anxiety, to acceptance, to growth and awareness, that would be a wonderful thing. 

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2 hours ago, Dminches said:

Did Rupert’s wife sell her share or just give it to Rebecca?  If she just gave the shares to Rebecca I don’t see how that qualifies as “he got his money out before the shit hit the fan.”  

I don’t see how exposing Ted’s panic attack devalues the franchise.  They are 1 win away from moving back up.  That in itself will add value if they win.

 

It could mess with the players heads during the biggest game of the year if it impacts their faith in Ted.

Edited by DEL901
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14 hours ago, Penman61 said:

And I’m blaming the writers because Keeley’s poor baby under-reaction really lets Nate off the hook. (Also, he didn’t “try to kiss” you; he did, very much, on the lips, for more than an inquisitive peck.) Nate is a grown man, however stunted emotionally, and he needs to be held accountable for his gross assaultive incel-adjacent behavior. Eeeeeuw.

As I watching this the very first thing I thought was how well the writers got Keeley's reaction.  I don't feel that Keeley necessarily under-reacted or let Nate off the hook per se.  I think Keeley did what a lot of women are conditioned to do when confronted with an uncomfortable male sexual situation is to automatically defuse the situation so it doesn't escalate or increase the threat risk.  I was so immediately struck by what she did that I knew a woman probably had a hand in writing that scene.  She was so uncomfortable and un-Keeley -- stuttering and stumbling -- the whole scene from the moment he went in for the kiss to when it ended was just uncomfortable to watch.  I also believe after the fact, that Keeley probably does on some level believe Nate was just awkward and it was no big deal, but in the moment she went into a self presevationist/appeasement mode.

Which made me hate Nate the more.  I hope the show does not try to redeem him.  I honestly hope it doesn't.  If it does I will not believe it.  They've put him being the point of no return for me.  I really do hope he emerges as the real villain and gets a comeuppance.

On a lighter note -- the team's Bye, Bye, Bye dance rehearsal and their sheer elation at nailing it brought a big ass grin to my face.  They acted like they won the world cup.  LOL.  It was great.

Also, the pub trio getting free advice from Doc Sharon.  The one guy whispering "Sorceress!" at her in awe when she gives a cliche psyhco-babble answer had me rolling.

Speaking of Doc Sharon, man her and Ted's relationship was the gift I did not know I needed this season.  I hope this isn't the last we see of her.

I am not a fan of Sam/Rebecca so I really have no comments on that other than what others have said.

I know the protection of sources is an ethical and in some cases legal statute to protect the source and the journalist and also prevent a chilling effect of scaring people into staying silent and open to retaliation.  But I don't know if there is anything that prevents a journalist from voluntarily giving up a source, especially in the case when he is unable to corroborate the info the source is giving him.  Also it depends on how the info was relayed -- as a byproduct of an interview on Nate himself where he drops it in an off the cuff way in a way to boost himself up? Did Nate himself relay the info under the condition of anonymity or is Trent Crimm running the story on his own based on a comment by Nate and he is just using 'anonymous' because it was not a strictly on the record comment? In the end, it would have been obvious to Ted who the anonymous source was anyway.  The only people who definitely knew why he left were Beard, Higgins, Roy, Sharon and Nate.  In a process of elimination he would have been left with Nate.  If Nate had been less self involved and had taken a few moments he himself would realize that as well.

Edited by DearEvette
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49 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

On a lighter note -- the team's Bye, Bye, Bye dance rehearsal and their sheer elation at nailing it brought a big ass grin to my face.  They acted like they won the world cup.  LOL.  It was great.

My big ass grin started when I noticed Roy bobbing his head to the music and singing along word for word. I love the little details like that!!

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I don’t have much more to say than what others have said: Nate is an ass, and I really hope his betrayal bites him big time. 

I loved the scenes between Dr. Sharon and Ted. Like others, I hope she comes back. 
 

I don’t think Trent Crimm would write something that totally trashes Ted—he respects him, and writing something horrible about someone with mental illness would likely tick off a sizable chunk of readers. Also, his editor, not he, came up with the headline, and the whole point is to get clicks/purchases and drive up readership and circulation. I know many writers who have complained about the titles their articles/essays were given when they were published. 

Edited by Turtle Wexler
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1 hour ago, alalaxmom said:

Bye, Bye, Bye dance rehearsal and their sheer elation at nailing it brought a big ass grin to my face

I especially liked how Jamie was concentrated on getting it right (and nailing it).  

I don't want Ted to be bullied by others about his panic attacks.  My heart aches for the character's private life being exposed like that.

I think that in England/UK there has been even more shame and/or reluctance to understanding/accepting emotional health.  The whole "keep calm and carry on/ "stiff upper lip."  Some older English folks I know are very surprised at all of this "talking about feelings" and "antidepressants."  YMMV- I'm going off of people I know, not the whole UK of course.

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2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

As I watching this the very first thing I thought was how well the writers got Keeley's reaction.  I don't feel that Keeley necessarily under-reacted or let Nate off the hook per se.  I think Keeley did what a lot of women are conditioned to do when confronted with an uncomfortable male sexual situation is to automatically defuse the situation so it doesn't escalate or increase the threat risk.  I was so immediately struck by what she did that I knew a woman probably had a hand in writing that scene.  She was so uncomfortable and un-Keeley -- stuttering and stumbling -- the whole scene from the moment he went in for the kiss to when it ended was just uncomfortable to watch.  I also believe after the fact, that Keeley probably does on some level believe Nate was just awkward and it was no big deal, but in the moment she went into a self presevationist/appeasement mode.

This. I thought the way she reacted and the version of it that she told Roy, incorrect as it was since Nate actually DID kiss her, was very realistic. Keeley is fierce and awesome and fearless, but she's still a woman who's long been judged on her looks and been conditioned to react a certain way to advances like that.

19 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I especially liked how Jamie was concentrated on getting it right (and nailing it). 

And clapping his hands to encourage the rest when they lined up. He sure has come a long way from the brat who wouldn't put his hand in with the rest of the team before the match last season.

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6 hours ago, alalaxmom said:

My big ass grin started when I noticed Roy bobbing his head to the music and singing along word for word. I love the little details like that!!

I saw an interview with Brett and Hannah where Hannah laughs about the "Let it Go" karaoke scene from S1E7, and how Brett can be seen singing along. They agree it isn't Roy singing, it's Brett, but I like how it's kept as a Roy thing!

Edited by mledawn
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2 hours ago, mledawn said:

I saw an interview with Brett and Hannah where Hannah laughs about the "Let it Go" karaoke scene from S1E7, and how Brett can be seen singing along. They agree it isn't Roy singing, it's Brett, but I like how it's kept as a Roy thing!

Well, I'm sure Phoebe has made Roy watch Frozen with her often enough that he's got all the songs memorised.

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12 hours ago, mledawn said:

I don't want to disregard what @pennben has brought forward regarding the imbalance of power issue, but from what we see both Sam and Rebecca are genuine in their feelings - there's no coercion, no abuse.

This is why I don't really have an issue with the relationship. They were in a relationship together before knowing who they were talking to, so there was no coercion. They both seem to be level-headed adults and I can't see Rebecca being vindictive or Sam feeling pressured to keep the relationship going because Rebecca is his boss. When Rebecca told him she didn't want him to leave, she wasn't talking as the  owner, and I think Sam knows that. She would have said the same thing if she wasn't his boss. I'm not denying that it might get messy or  look bad to outsiders. Maybe it's a bad idea, but it also seems stupid to deny yourself love just because of what others might think or because it might end badly.

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1 hour ago, pezgirl7 said:

This is why I don't really have an issue with the relationship. They were in a relationship together before knowing who they were talking to, so there was no coercion. They both seem to be level-headed adults and I can't see Rebecca being vindictive or Sam feeling pressured to keep the relationship going because Rebecca is his boss. When Rebecca told him she didn't want him to leave, she wasn't talking as the  owner, and I think Sam knows that. She would have said the same thing if she wasn't his boss. I'm not denying that it might get messy or  look bad to outsiders. Maybe it's a bad idea, but it also seems stupid to deny yourself love just because of what others might think or because it might end badly.

I don’t think it really matters that there was no power imbalance on the anonymous app, because as soon as they figured out who each other was the power imbalance was back in play. And this situation with Akufo is exactly why the power imbalance messes things up. Sam no longer has the freedom to make a true decision. Consciously or not the fact that he is in love with his boss is going to affect the decision he makes. It wouldn’t be the same as her not being his boss. While they together, romantic and worked decisions  are tied together. There’s no way to truly be objective. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Natalie25 said:

It wouldn’t be the same as her not being his boss.

I disagree. Take the boss component out of it. This scenario could have happened the same way with her being an actual stranger he met on an app and he is now faced with a decision on staying and exploring a relationship with this person or moving away.   It's no different than someone embarking on a new relationship but has an opportunity for a job in another country.  It's going to come down to his feelings, not feeling obligated to stay for her team.

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On 10/1/2021 at 1:29 PM, Danny Franks said:

Honestly, even with Keeley, I'm really into the idea of Roy and Phoebe's teacher as a potential couple. She's just so wholesome and sensible and takes everything about Roy and about weird schoolkids completely in her stride. I've enjoyed the subtle chemistry in their scenes together.

Ooh! I thought I was the only one! Takes courage to admit this on this board full of Keely/Roy worshippers but I completely agree. I’ve been rooting for the teacher since their first scene together with Roy sitting in the little chair.  I suspect the majority will get want they want in the long run though.

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Re Sam and Rebecca: I don’t know exactly who is supposed to remind Rebecca of the boss/subordinate conflict besides Keeley and Ted-I don’t get how anyone else would know because they haven’t been active since the funeral and were keeping it on the downlow then. I wish Keeley would have brought it up, but I’m not surprised she didn’t because this has been all about the romance and the match making ability of bantr-she’s behaving as Rebecca’s friend and not really looking at it from a professional perspective. As for Ted, I think he’s taking the same approach as he has with Beard and Jane, meaning minding his own business. I think as Sam’s coach everyone would have been well served if Ted had brought up the potential conflicts and problems. And I do see a problem since Rebecca has a significant decision about Sam to make because it impacts the club and all the players on the team. And this is the problem in these situations: no matter how well intentioned, keeping personal feelings out of business decisions is hard!

Re Nate and Keeley’s kiss: I’m on the side of Keeley is reacting in line with her character and as so many other women would (ahh shit here we go again…). I noticed during the conversation about wanting to be the boss that it seemed Keeley and Nate have different views of boss. Nate seems to see it as telling people what to do and how to be and getting credit and glory; Keeley seems to see it as having agency over yourself, your life and choices, and basically being a boss ass bitch. It’s interesting when you see their similar trajectories with the club and how they responded and see their roles. Rebecca is to Keeley as Ted is to Nate; their responses to their new roles and responsibilities couldn’t be more different.

I’m unhappy that Nate outed Ted and his panic attacks and it’s made me speculate about what the fallout will be. If Nate approached Trent Crimm the Independent, I can see where Trent ran with the story because 1) he is a journalist and he’s always going to want the story and 2) if Nate is shopping the story around, Trent may have figured that it would be better coming out from him than some other tabloid. Whatever the case, if Nate is outed as the source (and I think that’s a big if), then he should be finished at the club. The team has come a long way, and it appears as though the players surely support Ted, and we know he has Rebecca’s unqualified support. So if for some bizarre reason Ted doesn’t fire Nate, and Rebecca finds out (and it seems Higgins could be the source of that information), then Rebecca should fire Nate. Trust is integral and vital for team success; they can’t function as a successful team if they can’t trust one of their own coaches.

Finally, regarding African billionaire: something was off about that whole thing. Who buys/rents an entire museum and fills it with actors, and fills a restaurant with hired friends? That seemed…excessive (I mean, just rent the damn museum for a few hours or have the chef come to the hotel; staging normal social settings is freakish). I hope Sam’s spidey sense is tingling because mine sure was. I wonder if that’s what Rupert is really involved in.

 

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Here is the show I wish Ted Lasso is: a story about a man of color, working at a football club. He is flawed, and not always easy to like; the show helps us understand why his upbringing leads to him now craving validation, and getting overbearing when he does get a smidgeon of it. He gets a break at work, and rises in the ranks, but things are frustrating because he works for an incompetent boss, who, after almost two years on the job still has not learned the basics of his job (like off-side rules) or anything about game strategies, and instead spends his time choreographing "wacky dances." This boss also never reads the room, and at important meetings is prone to bust out dumb jokes. But because of this boss' privileged status -- he's a "nice guy!" he makes dad jokes! -- he gets away with this incompetence, and everyone (in and out of the show) loves him.

I know that's not what this show is, or what anyone other than I (or possibly others who have had the same experience at work) want, but that's what a headcanon is for 😑

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