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S41.E02: Juggling Chainsaws

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44 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

now Xander has to work that phrase in AGAIN, and it's just going to be obvious that something is up when he says it again. There's taking a risk, and there's being so obvious that it could ruin their game before they even get the idol. 

Agreed. And when someone on another tribe also starts rambling about broccoli or Astroturf, and then it happens AGAIN at the next challenge - butterflies then Astroturf - basically everyone on every tribe will figure it out, or they'll be told. It would have been way more fun to watch if the phrases had been more subtle, like "Well, I'll be darned!" or "That sun is so hot today!" 

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9 hours ago, BK1978 said:

I don't really know any of the others by name or visually.  That is probably more a me problem, but still having opening credits would help me out greatly.  I understand why they were cut but still.

Was there a reason why the opening intros were cut?  I feel like they took less than 45 seconds and they were extremely helpful, especially at the start of a season.  Cutting that never made sense to me.  I also miss the "Previously on Survivor" portion because I've already forgotten who got voted out first.  It's still jarring for the show to start and we're immediately at camp watching strategy with no quick primer about what happened last time...or maybe that's a me problem too. :)

 

8 hours ago, millennium said:

I don't like Xander.

From the minute he opened his mouth, his voice sounded so familiar - either he sounds like someone famous, or his voice is what would happen if Yul's and Penner's voices had a baby.  I can't place it and it drives me nuts.

Also, Jeff - I know you're trying to get newbies invested but I don't think we really need your camera chat about what's supposedly going to happen at Tribal Council.  I think most people get the gist of it.  Part of me likes the fact that he's trying new stuff but the old school part of me is getting annoyed by it.

Edited by laurakaye
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6 hours ago, mertensia said:

Xander's lock of hair he so artfully has cascading down his right side of his face makes me unreasonably stabby.

I wonder if he chose to do so or the same insufferable wardrobe/stylist folks who force contestants to wear impractical clothing .

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If I were Xander I wouldn't say it again until I heard the other stupid phrases. All three know what the phrases are so the person who finds the other idol knows that Xander has his. Saying it at every immunity challenge would just point the neon arrow of stupidity further on Xander. 

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12 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

That seemed like a really dumb move, but Xander also didn't seem that shocked?

I thought so as well. I think Evvie let him know beforehand.

43 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

If I were Xander I wouldn't say it again until I heard the other stupid phrases. All three know what the phrases are so the person who finds the other idol knows that Xander has his. Saying it at every immunity challenge would just point the neon arrow of stupidity further on Xander. 

But didn't someone post that Jeff said he has to say it every time now? I hope that's not true because it's so stupid.

I liked this ep a million times more than the premiere. This season is hilarious in it's stupidity and I love that lol.

I really like Evvie. It seems like people are quickly drawn to her, which is surprising. I love that she sees that women get paid dust in this game most of the time. The decision whether to keep Tiffany or not was hard but damned if I don't think she should have just let her go. Glad she didn't though because Tiffany cracks me up. I hope this doesn't backfire on Evvie.

I wanna like Xander but his voice is grating as hell and he seems too much like he knows he's on TV for me.

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16 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I thought so as well. I think Evvie let him know beforehand.

But didn't someone post that Jeff said he has to say it every time now? I hope that's not true because it's so stupid.

I liked this ep a million times more than the premiere. This season is hilarious in it's stupidity and I love that lol.

I really like Evvie. It seems like people are quickly drawn to her, which is surprising. I love that she sees that women get paid dust in this game most of the time. The decision whether to keep Tiffany or not was hard but damned if I don't think she should have just let her go. Glad she didn't though because Tiffany cracks me up. I hope this doesn't backfire on Evvie though.

I wanna like Xander but his voice is grating as hell and he seems too much like he knows he's on TV for me.

I think they all need to say it again but Xander can wait for the others to say theirs first and then chime in about purple butterflies. 

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3 hours ago, violet and green said:

The only player I really liked this episode was the sea. Beautiful colours!

 

I have always wished they would show the players noticing and expressing their appreciation of the natural paradise in which they find themselves.   The sea, the sunset, the wildlife ... I almost gasped at the clarity and color of the sea when the drone camera pulled back from the water challenge just before the show went to commercial.  

I'm sure the show must edit out such comments.  Which is a shame.  There's never a sense that they are in a special place, of a kind that many of us will never get to experience.   I seem to recall just one female player long ago who so fell in love with wherever they were shooting that she didn't go home afterwards.  Instead she found employment there and stayed.

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I went from liking almost everyone to wanting to take the entire yellow tribe and clonk their stupid heads together. Why would they keep Tiffany? She's bad in challenges and she's completely unreasonable. She kept saying, "what if Xander has an idol?" Evvie and Liana would explain that he didn't and how they knew, and she'd reply with "no, I'm saying WHAT IF," and that happened at least three times. I don't think it's a matter of her being worried that he had another idol, she just refused to process what they were telling her; she even said in a TH that she didn't understand how the secret code worked.

Not impressed with Evvie either. She had a choice of being in a four-person alliance with Xander and his two advantages, Voce, and Liana, with Liana as her secret two-person suballiance OR a three-person alliance with Liana and Tiffany. Her concerns about men always getting the credit is way overblown. If you look at all the seasons where men and women who were allies got to the end, sometimes the woman has won and sometimes the man has won. Whether it's been same sex or opposite sex allies at the end, one person gets all the credit and one person gets called a coattailer. It's always been a function of social game and jury management. She was also wrong to give Deshawn so much information; telling him she would protect her vote was okay because it generates goodwill by letting him get an extra vote and costs her nothing unless he later uses the extra vote to vote her or someone in her alliance out, something she made more likely by spilling all the info on their tribe dynamics. I noticed that Deshawn didn't tell her anything; he just had that hilarious "I can't believe she's still telling me all this!" face.

Brad trying to be Tony, but no. When he shut his eyes so they wouldn't sense him watching, I was hoping he'd open them to find JD and Ricard standing there staring at him crouched in the bushes.

Jeff talking to the audience about keeping the tribe strong vs. alliance loyalty but nonetheless someone would get voted out was helpful. I had no idea that someone gets voted out at Tribal Council. Thanks, Peachy! It occurs to me that the dumbing down of the show, the new "fun" twists, and the play-along at home rebus puzzles and social media stuff is all in preparation for a kid's season of the show, with tweens or young teens. They're not going to put kids out there for 39 or even 26 days, but I could see maybe a two-week version where there's no emphasis on surviving the elements and it's all games and advantages. I don't know that they're actually planning such a thing, but when I saw that second rebus on the side of the challenge platform, I flashbacked to that kid's show Endurance, which was kind of a Survivor Jr.

2 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Was there a reason why the opening intros were cut?  I feel like they took less than 45 seconds and they were extremely helpful, especially at the start of a season.

I miss the opening too. I figure they cut if for the same reason most shows have eliminated opening credits and theme songs, so they can fit one more commercial in.

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I think Xander’s voice sounds almost exactly like Devon Pinto’s voice from the HHH season of Survivor 

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Tiffany made me murderously angry last night and I really liked her in the first episode.  I usually have a lot of patience for people who have trouble in challenges, but she didn’t just have trouble, she pretty much sat there and almost gave up…then put almost zero onus on herself when they lost.   As much as I applaud the desire to do an all female alliance, this is not the one.  
That being said, I wouldn’t have voted Tiffany out as she is a moron and thus easy to keep around and manipulate but Voce?? Really?  Come on 🙄

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I still love Brad, chaotic as he is. I don't know why, but the green tribe has some of the best personalities in the game. I still hate Ricard, but Evvie is growing on me a bit. Genie and JD are still my green tribe favourites.

I also love Deshawn, Naseer, and Danny from the blue tribe.

Did not see that Voce blindside coming, Tiffany is just dead weight and her paranoia is getting out of hand in my opinion. I love Xander but I think he's screwed since he can't vote unless the other two manage to find the other idols. His game play is going to be pretty limited. 

 

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Oh Brad.  He's so awesome he doesn't need a Spy Shack, he just needs to shut his mighty hunter eyes to become invisible.  He looked like a loon, and he's lucky those other two guys weren't paying attention, but he did get intel.  Unfortunately, he immediately spilled it when he got back to camp to someone who immediately spilled it to JD, who was all "Whaaaaat?  Brad was hiding in the bushes the whole time?  We were just talking, not strategizing.  Geeze."  It is a good thing he's all tall and lanky, because Brad's paranoia is going to end up tying him in knots before half the season is over, and he'll end up voting for himself, convinced it is his best chance to stay.

Xander, Xander, Xander....you of the artfully draped annoying lock of hair....are you new?  Have you seen this show before?  You never reveal your immunity idols or advantages.  You especially don't reveal all the hoary details about how long it is good for and what ever hoops you have to jump through to use it.  You really don't expose that you have no vote until all conditions are met.  And you really, really, really don't tell all this to someone you met yesterday.  Sigh. 

Tiffany should have been voted out simply from her performance at the challenge and her defiant inability to recognize that she sucked at the challenge.  That said, if the girls alliance truly wants to make a go at a girls alliance, then voting Voce over Xander was probably their best choice.  Voce appeared smart and somewhat wily.  Xander appears to be neither, and is likely more easily manipulated.  The girls kept someone they had a hope of controlling.  That said, I still think Tiffany should have gone home.

I think Evvie is one to watch.

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At this point Evvie and Liana are just caving to Tiffany against their own logic. 

Agreed. I can understand the dilemma in having to choose between Xander and Tiffany, but ultimately Tiffany proved she was a wild card whose vote cannot be counted on. It made no sense to go with her at that point, IMO. Perhaps Evvie had no choice because Liana refused to budge. If so, I'll give it a pass. But if Liana was willing to flip then I have no respect for Evvie's dumb choice to stick with Tiffany. For all she knows Xander will be able to use his idol next week and vote. And then she's screwed.

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I wanna like Xander but his voice is grating as hell and he seems too much like he knows he's on TV for me.

Is he supposed to pretend he's not on TV? When there are cameras pointing at him and producers asking him questions? 

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Ok, so after thinking about Evvie and Liana's decision, I actually don't think it was as bad as people are saying it was. As much as Tiffany annoys me and as much as I DO think they should have voted her out, I think there are some reasons why it wasn't downright terrible. 

Yes, Tiffany has shown that she cannot really be trusted. However, looking at Evvie's point of view, I think getting rid of Voce COULD benefit them more in the immediate future. Here's why. 

Let's take a look at next week:

Let's say their tribe loses. Let's say Xander gets his idol. 

If Voce stayed, it would be Xander/Voce wanting to vote out Liana. Evvie won't let that happen so we're at a two vs two scenario. But Xander has his vote back, he has an idol, AND he has an extra vote. Xander either uses his extra vote or he uses his idol. Liana would likely go. That leaves Evvie in a position that they said they didn't want to be in in the first place.

Tiffany staying, here's what could happen. Evvie/Liana/Tiffany are a trio. They vote out Xander in a blindside, OR they flush Xander's idol out and they vote out Tiffany. Or Xander uses his extra vote and Tiffany goes. Even if we look at the chance that Xander is pissed enough to want Evvie out, Liana and Tiffany are less likely to vote for Evvie than they are for each other.  However, even with Tiffany as a wildcard, even if she flipped and voted with Xander, Xander would need to flush out one or both of his advantages, leaving him vulnerable for the future. 

So, in Evvie's best interests for next week, IF they lose again and IF Xander gets his idol, Voce going was the correct move, even for Liana. 

Now, if Evvie/Liana had voted out Xander, that still could have theoretically worked, BUT they go into next Tribal with guaranteed four votes. With keeping Xander, it's only a possible four votes, and Evvie will know for sure when Xander gets his vote back and when he gets his idol. 

And, if there's a swap, keeping Xander puts a target on his back because now Deshawn, and likely his tribe, know he has a potential idol.

Of course voting out Voce was risky, but I don't think it was stupid, not by a long shot. There's merit to this move being made.

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I can see the thinking as explained above but....

count me among the people who almost fell off my couch when Tiffany was saying she didn't do "that bad" in the challenge....it was beyond bad, it was excruciating to watch.  I'm also up for all girls, but when she said that, it was too much...at least own up to your failings.

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1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

It occurs to me that the dumbing down of the show, the new "fun" twists, and the play-along at home rebus puzzles and social media stuff is all in preparation for a kid's season of the show, with tweens or young teens.

So my husband and I actually had (what I think is) a great idea for a season - "The next generation" featuring children of former Survivor contestants! There are likely enough who are over 18 to do this, as many contestants had kids before coming on the show. It would be interesting to see how their parent's experience makes them view the game.

 

Also, it seemed to me that this was actually a great opportunity for Evvie to risk her vote, assuming she never considered straying from the women's alliance. She knew Xander didn't have a vote, and the two women would vote for Xander/Voce, so she would be safe and keep her hands clean. Seems like a missed opportunity.

Edited by the eskimo
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32 minutes ago, watch2much said:

count me among the people who almost fell off my couch when Tiffany was saying she didn't do "that bad" in the challenge....it was beyond bad, it was excruciating to watch. 

When she was sitting on the beam not moving and then fell off, I wondered if she had passed out. I thought they were going to have to bring the lifeguards out to rescue her and I felt really bad for her because four or five days with no food and bad sleep makes that understandable. But afterwards when she said she only slowed them down my "1 or 2, maybe 3" minutes, I lost all sympathy. What we saw was edited and it took several minutes. So she had to have slowed them down by more than that, but it's not like 3 minutes is insignificant in any case.

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13 hours ago, BK1978 said:

 

 

That is only for the viewers at home and more specifically aimed at the younger viewers.  It is all part of the "break the fourth wall" theme of the season.

I do like the little mini-videos they are doing with the contestants this season so we can get a little backstory about them.  They do something similar on Australian Survivor, though on there the videos are much longer, and to me it really helps me to invest in the contestants more.  It has been a bit since I watched the earlier seasons but I thought they did something like that back then.  If that is the case I wonder why they decided to bring it back.  What would also be nice is if they brought back the opening credits.  That is another thing that Aussie Survivor does and it really does help me remember people faster. 

 

I did not know about the "break the fourth wall" theme. Thanks

I don't think Canada is showing the videos. But I was flipping to the Blue Jays game during commercials so I might have missed them. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I went from liking almost everyone to wanting to take the entire yellow tribe and clonk their stupid heads together. Why would they keep Tiffany? She's bad in challenges and she's completely unreasonable. She kept saying, "what if Xander has an idol?" Evvie and Liana would explain that he didn't and how they knew, and she'd reply with "no, I'm saying WHAT IF," and that happened at least three times. I don't think it's a matter of her being worried that he had another idol, she just refused to process what they were telling her; she even said in a TH that she didn't understand how the secret code worked.

Now I can understand Tiffany's paranoia a little bit, because she was at risk for going home.  But I don't get why Evvie's word wasn't good enough for her.  Evvie openly said she saw the paper for the idol, that Xander shared all of that with her-so why could she not take Evvie's word for it?  I do feel like that should be a big red flag for Evvie, though.  

 

58 minutes ago, watch2much said:

count me among the people who almost fell off my couch when Tiffany was saying she didn't do "that bad" in the challenge....it was beyond bad, it was excruciating to watch.  I'm also up for all girls, but when she said that, it was too much...at least own up to your failings.

And contrast that to Liana, who was the last to go for her tribe, yet made up all that time in a hurry.  If Tiffany hadn't been out for a Sunday stroll on that bench, they might have actually won since Green tribe was struggling with their puzzle.  I also found it funny that Tiffany was mad about Voce throwing her name out at camp to be vote off.  Why wouldn't he be?

2 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Her concerns about men always getting the credit is way overblown. If you look at all the seasons where men and women who were allies got to the end, sometimes the woman has won and sometimes the man has won. Whether it's been same sex or opposite sex allies at the end, one person gets all the credit and one person gets called a coattailer. It's always been a function of social game and jury management. She was also wrong to give Deshawn so much information; telling him she would protect her vote was okay because it generates goodwill by letting him get an extra vote and costs her nothing unless he later uses the extra vote to vote her or someone in her alliance out, something she made more likely by spilling all the info on their tribe dynamics. I noticed that Deshawn didn't tell her anything; he just had that hilarious "I can't believe she's still telling me all this!" face.

I don't know if they were necessarily overblown, but I think she's thinking way too early about the end game and who will get credit for what.  I admit I'm the first one to complain when people don't make moves that will benefit their game and wait until later because they think it's too soon.  But in Evvie's case, her move and logic made little sense.  And as we've seen too many times, FTC can be a popularity contest over someone getting credit for the moves they made.  Just a few seasons ago we had a guy win that played 13 days out of 39, beating 2 individuals who were never even voted out once.  I think it's less about going to the end with a man and him getting credit for everything, and more that Evvie just wants an all girl alliance to succeed and dominate because that is rare for this show.  And while I can appreciate that, it's still so early and she has no idea if any of the other girls in the game will even be onboard, assuming she, Liana, and Tiffany manage to stay in tact until a swap or merge.  With such a short season, maybe they'll skip the swap and just merge early.  That would actually make more sense if they did it that way.  And as for her conversation with Deshawn, I think I had the same reaction he did.  I couldn't believe Evvie told him what she did.

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1 hour ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

That being said, I wouldn’t have voted Tiffany out as she is a moron and thus easy to keep around and manipulate

I don’t know if that’s actually true. She’s a moron, but she’s the type of moron who drags other people down with her because she will not listen or understand anything anyone else is saying. Evvie and Liana ended up catering to her whims instead of actually doing the smart move. If anything, she manipulated them

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16 hours ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Can someone please explain to me like I am 5 years old the rationale for voting out Voce? Even if I can accept keeping Tiffany (which, not really) I still can’t understand this vote. 

The logical choice would be to vote out Tiffany. But the 3 women want to stay the majority. So they were going to get rid of Xander because of his possible Idols, but Evvie decided she could work with Xander, so instead, vote out the only other possibility, Voce. 

I think it is bad. I think they should have kept the better challenge player this early in the game, and took their chances with the women's alliance and got rid of Tiffany.

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14 hours ago, TVFan1 said:

There shouldn't be a swap this season. Would love to see the Yase tribe get obliterated. Keeping Tiffany is a big mistake if there is no swap. Lose again.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed Jeff's hoarse voice. I was wondering if something was wrong with my audio.

I only noticed Jeff's voice after the challenge was over. I figured he did a lot of yelling during the challenge and became hoarse.

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36 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

Now I can understand Tiffany's paranoia a little bit, because she was at risk for going home.  But I don't get why Evvie's word wasn't good enough for her.  Evvie openly said she saw the paper for the idol, that Xander shared all of that with her-so why could she not take Evvie's word for it?  I do feel like that should be a big red flag for Evvie, though.  

Evvie could and did assert that the shared idol was powerless and that Xander had no vote.

What I believe Tiffany was worried about was not so much the possibility that Evvie was lying or mistaken but the possibility of Xander having found ANOTHER idol that was active that he could then use.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that production would have put multiple idols in play, and Xander somehow found it in addition to the shared idol. Maybe I am giving Tiffany too much credit, but she is correct that in that scenario, Xander could play his idol, and the only vote would be Voce's writing down Tiffany, sending her home. 

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15 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Evvie's argument seemed to be that if a woman goes to the end with men, they will likely get the credit/votes. History shows this is true. So it makes sense to want to go to the end with all women. However, you have to get to the end. I don't think Tiffany is going to help with that, but I've been surprised by contestants before.

That is so true! I say all the time about plans, in order to BE there, you have to GET there! So don't just think of the end game. In this season, they have to play minute by minute!

This early, it is a mistake to vote out your stronger challenge players. I thought it was bad getting rid of Abraham last week. What Evvie's tribe should have done was what the other tribe did, with their player Genie, who is also a plus-sized lady like Tiffany. They had Genie do the straight swim in the beginning. Tifffany's portion of the challenge had too much to do. It should have been given to a stronger athlete.

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This season is such a mess.

The rules for the "Beware Advantage" are dumb. It would make more sense if they had to say the phrase only once and then wait for the others. This way everyone will notice there is something going on. (Also, why does everybody talk about purple butterflies? I'm 100% sure no color was mentioned in the phrase 😀)

The fact that the players lose their vote until all advatages are "activated" is even more dumb. What if one or more are never found? What if a player gets voted out or medevaced with the advantage? Does it get re-hidden? Will the person who finds it have to use the same dumb phrase? Why did they make it so over-complicated?

The risk/protect thing is rigged. I mean if you are smart, you would always pick someone from the losing tribe so you would be almost 100% guaranteed they won't risk their vote, therefore you get an extra vote 🤷‍♀️

I actually see keeping Xander as a potentially good move. The dude has no vote so he can't really do much. And Evvie knows the phrases needed to re-activate him so she will know if it's safe to vote him out. Plus, I believe he knew David (I refuse to call him by his surname) was going home so there will be no bad blood between the two and he won't see the potential blindside coming. Or it could all backfire spectacularly.

But yeah, keeping Tiffany was a dumb move. She is a loose cannon and will likely cost them the game.

Probst is really giving me a weird vibe this season. Something's off about him.

The distribution of the players during the IC was really weird to me. Why have the unfit players do the physical part? Because they suck at puzzles? IMO you only need 1 good puzzle-maker, the other person just needs to keep out of the way. I hate solving puzzles with other people, they slow me down.

The green tribe is another trainwreck but at least they won an immunity so nothing much to say. I was kinda giving Ricard the benefit of the doubt but this episode solidified him as a smug guy who thinks he is smarter than he really is... (imho)

I got nothing to say about the blue tribe. I don't even know half of their names.

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19 minutes ago, Asha124 said:

 

I actually see keeping Xander as a potentially good move. The dude has no vote so he can't really do much. And Evvie knows the phrases needed to re-activate him so she will know if it's safe to vote him out. Plus, I believe he knew David (I refuse to call him by his surname) was going home so there will be no bad blood between the two and he won't see the potential blindside coming. Or it could all backfire spectacularly.

 

Xander has no vote until he has immunity and 2 votes. If the other two idols are found and their phrases said, then Xander has an immunity idol, his regular vote, and and his second vote that he can play whenever. Not only that, but Evvie told Deshawn to be looking for the idol and what it meant. So Deshawn could conceivably find the clue, not open it but rehid it, and then open it when the other person professes their love of broccoli or whatever other ridiculous phrase needs to be said. 

Xander knows that Evvie has stabbed her alliance in the back and vote out Voce. He knows that Evvie knows baout his potential idol. He really doesn't have a good reason to be loyal to Evvie. 

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10 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Xander knows that Evvie has stabbed her alliance in the back and vote out Voce. He knows that Evvie knows baout his potential idol. He really doesn't have a good reason to be loyal to Evvie. 

One thing we know about Survivor is that knowledge is power. Evvie's need to blab everything to everybody is certain to come back to bite her. How do you trust someone who can't keep a secret? Actually this is also true of Xander. And various others this season. You should only tell your secrets with great caution after lots of thinking, not run and blab asap  to people you barely know. 

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16 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Xander knows that Evvie has stabbed her alliance in the back and vote out Voce. He knows that Evvie knows baout his potential idol. He really doesn't have a good reason to be loyal to Evvie. 

He has nobody else in his corner as things stand on his tribe, and Evvie can proclaim she had not much in the way of other options, which is semi-true.

The realistic choices for her were Tiffany, Voce and Xander. (It absolutely would not have made sense to go after Liana both from an alliance perspective and a let's try to win challenges perspective, given how she beasted her round of the immunity challenge). 

She couldn't really risk voting Tiffany because it would have been a 2-2 tie. with Voce and her going for Tiffany, and Liana and Tiffany going for Voce

She can say it was then either Xander or Voce, and she wanted to save Xander.

I think Xander would buy that logic.

 

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4 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

How do you trust someone who can't keep a secret? Actually this is also true of Xander.

Well, I think Zander had to say something about finding the immunity idol because of the loss of the vote.  But he should've told the whole tribe together.  And he should've kept his mouth shut about the extra vote.

That being said, I love watching Zander, he is excellent eye candy.

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18 hours ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Can someone please explain to me like I am 5 years old the rationale for voting out Voce? Even if I can accept keeping Tiffany (which, not really) I still can’t understand this vote. 

Actually, I think it stems from either Evvie or Liana telling Tiffany that Voce mentioned voting her off and she totally overreacted and called him a jerk for saying her name.  From that point on she targeted Voce which was noticeable as she had no real reason to not vote off Zander (all her arguments were nonsensical especially as Evvie had read the immunity idol instructions).

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23 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Xander has no vote until he has immunity and 2 votes. If the other two idols are found and their phrases said, then Xander has an immunity idol, his regular vote, and and his second vote that he can play whenever. Not only that, but Evvie told Deshawn to be looking for the idol and what it meant. So Deshawn could conceivably find the clue, not open it but rehid it, and then open it when the other person professes their love of broccoli or whatever other ridiculous phrase needs to be said. 

Xander knows that Evvie has stabbed her alliance in the back and vote out Voce. He knows that Evvie knows baout his potential idol. He really doesn't have a good reason to be loyal to Evvie. 

Yeah, that's why I said it could be good move or it could backfire. It all depends on 2 things:

1. Whether Xander knew David was going home (judging by his reaction at the TC he did, but we won't know for sure until next ep)

2. How long will it take for the other 2 advantages to be found (it could be the next day or it could never happen)

If Xander got backstabbed Evvie risks getting a really powerful enemy, if he wasn't she can gain a really poweful ally who doesn't know she is plotting his demise 🤷‍♀️

I guess we will have to wait and see (or read spoilers on reddit 😄)

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I think that the Brad eavesdropping thing had to be reenacted and I dislike that!  I presume they are used to camera crew all over the place, so I am willing to accept that an extra camera operator (and maybe a sound tech), that wasn't following you before but is now at the well, might not necessarily arouse your suspicions that there's another tribe member in the vicinity.   But I'm kind of dubious just the same.  I don't see how that closeup of Brad on the ground with his eyes closed could have been taken during the actual conversation without the talkers noticing and wondering about the additional crew and the camera angle.  So if that was reenacted, what other stuff might be?  (aside from challenge runthroughs) I kind of don't even want to think about it, at the same time my skepticism is now aroused.

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Question for the Beware Advantage: 

 

So each tribe has one of these.

It only works if all 3 are found. 

Until that happens, the holder can't vote. 

 

Does that mean, that had they evicted Xander, would they have nullified 3 idols and potentially kept 2 people from having votes? 

Because if that's the case - vote him out stat. 

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Like the rest of you, I am baffled at the decision to keep Xander. The second you sense that someone could be powerful in the game, you need to get rid of them. And this season, they've actually made it easier for people to do since the advantages aren't all active right away. I also agree that Tiffany's paranoia doesn't bode well for her alliance with Evvie and Liana. My guess is that Tiffany is a shield right now. In a tribe setting, neither Liana nor Evvie can be accused of being the weakest as long as Tiffany's around, and then once the tribe is merged, she's a goat.

However, it seems like Tiffany isn't likely to be a solid number for her alliance. In fact, I was shocked at her taking it so personally that Voce suggested her to be voted out. She's a middle aged woman who did not excel at an early immunity challenge—of course her name is going to come up for tribal council! If I were Evvie or Liana, I'd be really worried about her wanting to change the target from the guy they had all agreed was a huge threat to someone who was a threat only to her, as well the fact that she couldn't seem to remember what Evvie had told her about Xander's idol (or trust Evvie when she reminded her). I think her vote is going to be very hard to control.

I'd also like to know what information Evvie got about the blue tribe in exchange for her telling Deshawn about all of Xander's advantages. The blue tribe in general is kind of mysterious, since they haven't had to go to tribal council yet. I'm in the camp that says it's a low-key disadvantage—you don't have many opportunities to build game trust with people, and once you merge, and fractures in your original tribe can be exploited by people from the other tribes who are more experienced in navigating vote-offs. Furthermore, the alliances from the other tribe(s) that made it through the pre-merge are harder to be break into. People can and do manage it, but I think avoiding tribal council for too long pre-merge ups the difficulty of the post-merge game.

7 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

If I were Xander I wouldn't say it again until I heard the other stupid phrases. All three know what the phrases are so the person who finds the other idol knows that Xander has his. Saying it at every immunity challenge would just point the neon arrow of stupidity further on Xander. 

I think that's exactly what he'll do. The people on the other tribes who find their respective idols will read the code phrases listed in the clue and hopefully remember that one of them has already been said. I think this is why the phrases are so deliberately weird—well, that and because it's fun for the producers to make the players say ridiculous things. You might not clock something mundane that's being said in the moment, never mind remember it hours (or days) later. But you have a decent chance of remembering having heard someone mention butterflies and dead relatives, goats and astroturf, or broccoli. It's also easier for the players who find the advantages to remember what code phrases they're supposed to be looking out for.

1 minute ago, hurrrz said:

Does that mean, that had they evicted Xander, would they have nullified 3 idols and potentially kept 2 people from having votes? 

My guess is that they'd re-hide Xander's idol and then someone else on his tribe would need to find it and say the secret phrase. It would be hilarious if getting rid of Xander removed any chance of hidden immunity idols being played this season, but ultimately, the show wants the players to have and use these advantages.

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5 hours ago, fishcakes said:

When she was sitting on the beam not moving and then fell off, I wondered if she had passed out. I thought they were going to have to bring the lifeguards out to rescue her and I felt really bad for her because four or five days with no food and bad sleep makes that understandable. But afterwards when she said she only slowed them down my "1 or 2, maybe 3" minutes, I lost all sympathy. What we saw was edited and it took several minutes. So she had to have slowed them down by more than that, but it's not like 3 minutes is insignificant in any case.

I was sympathetic to Tiffany right up until she started the all-out paranoia and babbling about "butterflies are purple" which isn't what Xander said.    Liana said: "I'm worried she's going to do something stupid."   Well, she did, Liana.  She convinced you and Harry Potter to vote out Voce rather than the self-styled pretty boy who presents a bigger threat.

 

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2 hours ago, Asha124 said:

I actually see keeping Xander as a potentially good move. The dude has no vote so he can't really do much. And Evvie knows the phrases needed to re-activate him so she will know if it's safe to vote him out.

Hee. All I can think about is "Raymond, why don't you pass the time by playing a little solitaire?"

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18 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Evvie's argument seemed to be that if a woman goes to the end with men, they will likely get the credit/votes. History shows this is true. So it makes sense to want to go to the end with all women. However, you have to get to the end. I don't think Tiffany is going to help with that, but I've been surprised by contestants before.

Yeah, that part of her logic isn't terrible, but the decision to hitch her wagon to a loose cannon and challenge liability is most definitely terrible. 

And I know they wanted to keep the suspense about which way the vote was going to go, but I really need to know how Evvie and Liana caved to Tiffany's paranoia. Evvie had seen the note, heard Xander utter the phrase to no reply at the immunity challenge and knew he had no vote, and had visited the "risk/protect your vote" place so she had every reason to believe he didn't have any additional advantages at this time, but 100% knew that he has the potential to gain a huge advantage later.

So, why change the vote to the advantage-less Voce? Also, even if Xander somehow DID have an idol, at worst, she loses Tiffany, the paranoid, energy-free, won't take responsibility for her shortcomings loose cannon. It seemed like a slam dunk choice, either get rid of the threat or get rid of the dead weight. And she chose neither. Puzzling.

Quote

Um Jeff, I think your average seventh grader could tell you that one in six chance equals 16.666666%. I mean seriously, it wasn't that impressive that Voce knew that.

The attempts to segue into personal stories are SO clunky. "How did you know that? Were you just smart as a kid?" (WTF kind of question is that, anyway?) But cue the treacly music and the "no, I wasn't actually smart, but my mom pushed me to try hard" or whatever the hell he said. It's just so awkwardly done. And in this case, I don't even know why they'd bother including the moment, the guy was voted out seconds later. We don't need his background when he'll be gone in a flash.

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It's not beyond the realm of possibility that production would have put multiple idols in play, and Xander somehow found it in addition to the shared idol. Maybe I am giving Tiffany too much credit, but she is correct that in that scenario, Xander could play his idol, and the only vote would be Voce's writing down Tiffany, sending her home.

Sure, that makes sense on Tiffany's part, but not Evvies. Her choice is to betray Xander and vote him out while she has the chance, or to stick with Xander and vote out Tiffany. You don't betray someone with at least 2 advantages and then leave them in the game. That's just dumb.

Now, what may have happened is that Evvie talked with Xander and convinced him to go along with voting out Voce but they didn't show us. Then, at least, she covered her ass. Otherwise I want to see her try to talk her way out of this once they get back to camp.

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4 hours ago, Pepper the Cat said:

I don't think Canada is showing the videos. But I was flipping to the Blue Jays game during commercials so I might have missed them.

Watched the Blue Jays live and PVR'd Survivor.  Yes, we are getting the backstory videos, but nothing in reference to the clues or 'breaking the 4th wall' for the kids.  I also got that annoying Skechers ad someone else referenced, that couldn't have come at a worse time (as they were subtitling a conversation that was hard to understand.)

I think many players over the years have been guilty of thinking about their jury speeches when they should be worrying about tomorrow.  If I were on a tribe that hadn't won a challenge, I would have at least considered voting out the paranoid delusional woman who bore a lot of responsibility for our loss, clearly believed she was not responsible and got her back up when her name was mentioned, and either refused to believe me when I explained the ins and outs of the idol someone had found or refused to listen, then insisted we go after someone who was almost assuredly no threat because someone else 'might' have a third, unknown option.  I agree with the person who said Tiffany wanted Voce gone because he had mentioned her name, and no other reason.

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12 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Agreed. And when someone on another tribe also starts rambling about broccoli or Astroturf, and then it happens AGAIN at the next challenge - butterflies then Astroturf - basically everyone on every tribe will figure it out...

Tiffany couldn't figure it out and she was straight up told how it worked [facepalm].

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I'm all for supporting my sisters. Woman power . But vote Tiffany off. No hate, but geeze.  If you are strong athletic team, I get it. Keep who you're comfortable with. If you are losing and the person who helped you lose, get rid off  them! Screw social skills. Wtf?

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Late to the party here because I had to choose between watching SURVIVOR or BIG BROTHER last night. Glad I watched BB in order to spare myself the  horrific game play on display here by tonight.

I didn't like Voche last week and liked him even less this week but that was a shockingly astonishing lack of judgment on behalf of the ladies keeping in the weakest link who was blowing a challenge so bad Jeff was frothing at the mouth shouting at her.

This is espcially distressing as Leanna is my early favorite and she's now in a very tenuous posistion by taking the Tiff Train.

More bad game play is Brad acting like a lunatic and blabbing about what he's up to.

It's pretty dope how a lot of people figured out what Xander was up to with the whole butterfly thing.

So much for breaking the fourth wall is the show still stubbornly refuses after twenty years to show the faces of the challenge demostrators.

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On 9/29/2021 at 6:28 PM, ProfCrash said:

What a stupid decision. Ignoring the fact that Tiffany sucks at challenges, she is paranoid. Evvie told Tiffany that she had read the note and that he didn’t have an idol but Tiffany wouldn’t trust Evvie. So they vote off Voce, who had no advantages an not opportunity to gain an advantage, keep Xander, who has an extra vote and could get immunity, and kept Tiffany who wouldn’t trust Evvie. 

I would love nothing more than a smart, strategic all-female alliance but this was a an epic clown car fail. First off, I suffered an eye roll sprain when Tiffany couldn't admit that she was the reason her team belly-flopped so badly. Delusional, much? Second the woman is as dumb as Probst's horrible haircut this season. The minute that Tiffany started babbling nonsense about keeping Xander and disbelieving Evvie (although that may have been the only smart thing she did because Evvie is a snake in rainbow boy shorts) when she said she saw with her own eyes that Perfect Perm didn't have a vote. At that point, screw girl power and get rid of the weakest link. Liana and Evvie can still maintain their alliance, and might actually have a chance at winning a challenge. BTW I love how Jeff was all the yellow team has been losing all season. Calm down, it's episode 2!

Evvie is not as smart as they thinks they are. They blew it with Xander, and honestly if I were DeShawn I'd be going back to my team and tell them that while Evvie could be useful, they are also someone that are playing the game, and should go sooner rather than later. 

You'd think after 41 freaking seasons people would learn how to pack for Survivor. I'm sorry but in addition to the dictionary definition of an Epic Fail, Tiffany would have chosen something other than saggy boy shorts and a bra that may or may not give up the will to live (or support) by episode 4. There are bathing suits and athletic wear that actually fit, so you won't blame wedgies as part of your poor performance excuse.

Brad is now BradJack Horseman because he looks like a crazy person that is also a horse. Someone stick a carrot in his mouth so he'll stop blabbing information that he really should keep to himself. I guess farmers have no chill. 

I actually kind of like Xander. He would have been that guy in the 90s who was super dreamy in spite of his love of Phish and hacky-sack.

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8 hours ago, Asha124 said:

(Also, why does everybody talk about purple butterflies? I'm 100% sure no color was mentioned in the phrase 😀)

This was inserted into the crazy game of telephone that Tiff was playing partly with herself. She just started mumbling 'purple butterflies' at one point and everyone else took it up. The phrase given clearly had no color indicated (and was it moths as well?). I though he kind of remarkably played it off with the "I'm already going crazy and thinking... " approach but next week that won't work. I think it's interesting that we could have a person(s) not allowed a vote for a whole season while waiting for someone to talk about broccoli at a challenge and it never happening.

I can't help but think of Dee Snider (of Twisted Sister) when I see Brad. I then wonder why he isn't wearing his makeup.

 

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On 9/29/2021 at 9:11 PM, Pepper the Cat said:

At some point in the challenge, the camera showed a poster with a word puzzle. Did anyone else see this?

That was "The Game Within the Game" for the episode.  There's going to be one of those rebuses in every episode except the final one.

But that's only the first part of the weekly game.  The rest (including the rebus, so there's no need to re-watch the episode for it), is on the game's website.

On 9/29/2021 at 10:54 PM, BK1978 said:

It is all part of the "break the fourth wall" theme of the season.

That's what Peachy was talking about when he said "Drop the 4"!

18 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I like the Beware Advantage, I do, but they need to make the phrases less odd. I get that it's supposed to be a risk and having an out there phrase to utter is a risk you're taking to get the idol, but now Xander has to work that phrase in AGAIN, and it's just going to be obvious that something is up when he says it again.

10 hours ago, Asha124 said:

The fact that the players lose their vote until all advatages are "activated" is even more dumb. What if one or more are never found?

Covering both of these comments:  the parchment that came with the "advantage.  Spoilered for mobile users; link below.

Spoiler

eu4p5vudxmq71.jpg

https://i.redd.it/eu4p5vudxmq71.jpg

Per this: Xander was required to say the phrase at that IC.  "At the next IC, you must say a secret phrase...."  However, it doesn't say anything about having to repeat it at every IC.  Only that all 3 have to be said at the same IC to activate the idols. 

If I were Xander, I'd be quiet until and unless the other two phrases are said at an IC.  By the rules, they must be said at the next IC after found and claimed.  If, for example, only one gets found, only one phrase will be said at the next IC.

As for the case of the others not being found at all, the final line does say that the penalty expires at the merge.  So if Xander can survive until then, he's got his vote(s) back.

10 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

So Deshawn could conceivably find the clue, not open it but rehid it,

Only if he re-hides in in the same place he found it, and risks someone else taking it before he can.  That's also according to the outer note.  If you take the warning and not the risk, you have to replace the Beware Advantage, in the same spot (or as close as possible, depending.)

 

And speaking of the code-phrases, I think they might be tribe color coded.  When most people hear "butterfly", they probably think yellow or orange (Yase's color scheme).  Broccoli and trees are both Green (the Ua tribe phrase?) and a goat trying to eat Astroturf would be sad and blue (Luvu's?).

And of the 3, I'd much prefer to have the "goat on Astroturf " phrase.  That one you can pass off to anyone not in the loop about the 3-way idol as trying for another go-around by creating a quirky catchphrase to be memorable.

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18 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Was there a reason why the opening intros were cut?  I feel like they took less than 45 seconds and they were extremely helpful, especially at the start of a season.  Cutting that never made sense to me.  I also miss the "Previously on Survivor" portion because I've already forgotten who got voted out first.  It's still jarring for the show to start and we're immediately at camp watching strategy with no quick primer about what happened last time...or maybe that's a me problem too. :)

 

Something I was wondering is why we went straight into day four.  I thought we were always taken back to camp to see the fallout from the vote.  Maybe with two tribes voting they decided not to do this.  Just a heads up I will probably bring up Aussie Survivor in my posts a lot, so if anyone gets sick of me talking about it I am sorry but it really is the better version of the game right now.  Anyway, they do the same thing on Australian Survivor as well, meaning they take you directly into the next day at the start of each new episode.  Which kind of sucks because there were a lot of surprising votes during the last season of Aussie Survivor so it would have been great to see people's raw reaction to what happened when they got back to camp.

17 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I wanna like Xander but his voice is grating as hell and he seems too much like he knows he's on TV for me.

I felt the same way.  I was looking down at my tablet and I heard him talk in a confessional and I was like, "Holy hell this guy's voice is annoying as fuck."  Oddly enough I did not notice it the first week.

12 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

What I believe Tiffany was worried about was not so much the possibility that Evvie was lying or mistaken but the possibility of Xander having found ANOTHER idol that was active that he could then use.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that production would have put multiple idols in play, and Xander somehow found it in addition to the shared idol. Maybe I am giving Tiffany too much credit, but she is correct that in that scenario, Xander could play his idol, and the only vote would be Voce's writing down Tiffany, sending her home. 

That's what I got out of it as well but even though her paranoia was based in something that could be true, she just seemed way over the top about it.  If I was in an alliance with her that would have been my cue to drop her because she just did not seem to want to listen to reason. 

Also to add to what you said, once again I will bring up the previous season of Australian Survivor.  My memory is a bit hazy but if I recall correctly at one point there were three, possibly four active Idols in the game at once.  There were two tribal Idols and then a third Idol floating around.  So like you said, Tiffany's paranoia might have had some credibility behind it.

8 hours ago, bankerchick said:

 

Watched the Blue Jays live and PVR'd Survivor.  Yes, we are getting the backstory videos, but nothing in reference to the clues or 'breaking the 4th wall' for the kids.  I also got that annoying Skechers ad someone else referenced, that couldn't have come at a worse time (as they were subtitling a conversation that was hard to understand.)

The breaking the 4th wall/clue for kids was only brought up in the first episode by Jeff, to my knowledge that is.  They just showed the clue this episode.

4 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

Brad is now BradJack Horseman because he looks like a crazy person that is also a horse. Someone stick a carrot in his mouth so he'll stop blabbing information that he really should keep to himself. I guess farmers have no chill. 

 

This made me laugh far more than it probably should have.  So thank you.

3 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

I can't help but think of Dee Snider (of Twisted Sister) when I see Brad. I then wonder why he isn't wearing his makeup.

 

Invoking Dee Snider's name always gets a laugh out of me. 

I am not sure if what I am saying should be posted here or the media thread.  But it might help shed some light on the vote so I will post it here.

I was reading an article on Yahoo where they interviewed Voce.  He said that when Evvie returned from the thing with DeShawn there was only about five to ten minutes to go before the tribe left for TC.  He said he had no time to even talk to Evvie because her time was being taken up by the women.  Voce also said that Evvie tried to get Tiffany to vote for Xander but Tiffany would not budge. 

Also, Voce said that the tribe was five strong when it came to the vote the previous week and they were all really close even heading into this week's vote.  He said he thought the women might form an all-women's alliance but he thought the logical target for such an alliance would be Xander.

He also stated that there was talk among the five of them to do an Intentional Matsing.  For those not familiar with the strategy here is someone explaining it on Reddit...
 

Quote

In Survivor: Philippines, they started with 3 tribes of 6, one of which was Matsing. Matsing lost every challenge that they participated in, to the point where they only had 2 tightly aligned members (Malcolm and Denise) while the other tribes all still had 6. Malcolm and Denise were then swapped to separate tribes and were both able to make the merge. At the merge, instead of being targeted by the larger majority groups, they were seen as easy people to bring in for votes and were able to find their way into a majority. Malcolm ended up placing 4th while Denise went on to win the season (sorry for all of that background info if you’re already watched Philippines or anything)

The idea behind the Intentional Matsing is to intentionally lose challenges early in a 3-tribe season to try to replicate what happened with Malcolm/Denise in that season. And then when you go into a swap/merge, you won’t be seen as a target and could make your way towards the end, just like they did.

So the member of that tribe were already discussing throwing challenges in order to implement that strategy at this point in the game.

Voce also said that he and Xander sort of knew each other prior to being on the show together as they worked out at the same gym a few years ago.

One last thing he touched upon was Xander's vote.  I am not sure if this was really explained on the show or not, I don't think it was but I might not have been paying attention.  So with Xander losing his right to vote he is also not allowed to use his extra vote (Which was said on the show) and he is also not allowed to do the die mini-game either.  Because if you do not have your primary vote then you forfeit your rights to any other voting advantage.  Which, it seems obvious but I don't recall that being said on the show.

Edited by BK1978 · Reason: Fixing some typos.
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9 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

This was inserted into the crazy game of telephone that Tiff was playing partly with herself. She just started mumbling 'purple butterflies' at one point and everyone else took it up. The phrase given clearly had no color indicated (and was it moths as well?). I though he kind of remarkably played it off with the "I'm already going crazy and thinking... " approach but next week that won't work. I think it's interesting that we could have a person(s) not allowed a vote for a whole season while waiting for someone to talk about broccoli at a challenge and it never happening.

I can't help but think of Dee Snider (of Twisted Sister) when I see Brad. I then wonder why he isn't wearing his makeup.

 

There was no color but it was butterflies. I rewatched last night because my son wants to watch Survivor. His bed time doesn’t let him watch live and I am not waiting around for him to ask to watch. Yes, I am an awful Mom. I thought that Xander found a creative way of working the phrase in, tying it to hunger and sleep deprivation. I don’t think it stuck out all that strangely to the other tribes. I mean, they laughed but it wasn’t just hung out there. 

So did the teams not get their flint back until they win immunity? Xander also said that Probst still had their flint and it sounded like they didn’t have fire. That is fucked up.

Does Evvie identify as non-binary? I have seen some people posting they/them pronouns for Evvie. I don’t recall anything being said on the show so I have been using she/her but will switch if they/them are the preferred pronouns. 

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I watched again, too.  I'm really enjoying the green tribe, Brad's  attempt to spy at the waterhole shows game if not much smarts.  I wouldn't  trust Shan (cue cartoon  music) for one hot second, but I like her.  We get pastors like her in the Episcopalian church quite often.  Very liberal, extremely peppy, making us all clap to the contemporary music, trying so hard to show they aren't the stereotypical boring pastor that they've created a whole new  stereotype. You have to like them though.

Last week the whole active listening scene was hilarious with Shan's face all lit up with interest, cut to Brad's face even more animated, like a dad trying to convince the baby that strained spinach is good, then cut to Ricard just glaring at JP while he tells his story.  Watch Ricard's face in any group scene and he's very slow to smile with the group even when Jeff is being all perky.  Sociopath?  Time will tell.

The blue team is still pretty unknown to me except for Kaseer who I absolutely love.    Smug Sydney says something like: Last week we were just using Kaseer to learn stuff from him before we voted him out, but now I might let him stay. Hope they lose soon and Sydney goes first.

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53 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Is Evvie binary? I have seen some people posting they/them pronouns for Evvie. I don’t recall anything being said on the show so I have been using she/her but will switch if they/them are the preferred pronouns

I read yesterday that Evvie came out as binary since the show taped, and is comfortable with both she and they. 

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