S03:E03 Not to Be Believed

[Guest]

Quote

Tensions rise between Monica and the President. Paula is offered a settlement. Linda begins to feel that she has a target on her back.

Airing September 21, 2021

[choclatechip45]

I thought this was the strongest episode by far. I really felt for Monica and Linda for a weird way. Billy Eichner is so good as Matt Drudge.

[peridot]

I really wish that Monica stood up to Clinton after she sent the letter to him.  "Let's be friends"? Come on.
It seemed like she really felt the seriousness of her situation after he asked her about Linda.  I hope there won't be any more heart-eyes after that.

Linda is something else.  Why did she accuse Kathleen of lying and embellished what happened to her in the White House?
I'm glad Kathleen said that to her, though.  Since she has nothing going on in her life, she has to get involved in someone else's drama.

Paula is so weak-minded.  I wish she would take her settlement and leave her dumbass, impotent husband behind. 

[LADreamr]

I bet Clinton is as scary and threatening when he's mad, as he is charismatic when he's flirting.  Linda's orgasm over seeing her name in print was its own kind of sad.  She so needed the limelight, she'd sell out anyone for a moment of it.

Billy Eichner was great.  I didn't even realize it was him until I saw the credits.  Even when I watched it back, it was impressive.  He lost himself in that ass.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Oh, my goodness, with the presents. I’m surprised she didn’t make him a collage.

 

[hoodooznoodooz]

Ha!

(paraphrasing:)

I’m his cousin.

Harriet.

He’s a really great cousin.

[Spartan Girl]

6 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Oh, my goodness, with the presents. I’m surprised she didn’t make him a collage.

 

Ugh yeah that was cringeworthy. I mean, come on, Monica…

[txhorns79]

9 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

I really felt for Monica and Linda for a weird way.

It's interesting, I don't really feel bad for Monica with regards to her relationship with Clinton.  I feel like she kind of signed up for that when she began a relationship with an unavailable married guy.  I do feel for her vis a vis Linda because all I see from Linda is someone trying to manipulate Monica so Linda can have her drama.

I've said it before, but I do love Linda's cubicle mate who regularly telegraphs her complete hatred for Linda. 

One thing I do not like is how the timeline keeps jumping around.  No one's appearance ever changes, so it gets hard to keep track of when we are supposed to be in the events. 

[Retired at last]

I read something that said that Linda Tripp's daughter wished her mom could have seen this show, but why??? I would hate for a loved one to see herself portrayed so horribly and if that is how she really was (and probably was), wouldn't she be horrified to see herself that way? I am sure it is just make up, but I never see Sarah Paulson, I see Linda Tripp. But, I also never see Monica - I see Beanie. (Off topic - sorry, but I just don't see Beanie playing Fanny Brice in the new Funny Girl, either.)

[xhoipolloix]

Bill and Monica are both so cringey. Did he really think she wouldn't tell anybody? 

[AntFTW]

4 hours ago, Retired at last said:

I read something that said that Linda Tripp's daughter wished her mom could have seen this show, but why??? I would hate for a loved one to see herself portrayed so horribly and if that is how she really was (and probably was), wouldn't she be horrified to see herself that way? I am sure it is just make up, but I never see Sarah Paulson, I see Linda Tripp. But, I also never see Monica - I see Beanie. (Off topic - sorry, but I just don't see Beanie playing Fanny Brice in the new Funny Girl, either.)

I read that Linda Tripp's daughter said Sarah Paulson nailed the performance of Linda.

Also, I agree with you. When Sarah Paulson is onscreen, I see Linda Tripp.  I think Sarah Paulson is nailing the performance, and Sarah does have the benefit of makeup and a wig. With Beanie, I have such a conflicting thought because when I watch the show, I think Beanie is nailing the acting but when I see her, I can't see past Beanie. It's Beanie with a 90s wig... but her acting is great.

Edited September 22, 2021 by AntFTW

[AuntieMame]

16 hours ago, LADreamr said:

I bet Clinton is as scary and threatening when he's mad, as he is charismatic when he's flirting.  Linda's orgasm over seeing her name in print was its own kind of sad.  She so needed the limelight, she'd sell out anyone for a moment of it.

Billy Eichner was great.  I didn't even realize it was him until I saw the credits.  Even when I watched it back, it was impressive.  He lost himself in that ass.

That’s a very good point; charisma can partake of both the dark and light in a person’s character. That’s given me a lot to think about. 

Jeez, this is how we got the Drudge Report? And it started because the guy wanted to be a Humphrey Bogart type noir reporter? I wish Drudge had stuck with the quirky nostalgia. 

1 hour ago, xhoipolloix said:

Bill and Monica are both so cringey. Did he really think she wouldn't tell anybody? 

That got me too. Especially the line about how both Monica and Clinton were highly emotional and volatile. It would be a long shot for anyone in a relationship with somebody emotionally unavailable to not have at least one confidante, but adding that emotional typology? It does make you wonder why he never thought about it. Especially because the mistress generally has nothing to do but wait around for the phone to ring and obsess about their lover. Young women in these situations will confide. And a young woman with the self esteem and spine to keep that kind of a secret would probably either not appeal (doesn’t set off the predator instincts) or wouldn’t get involved with a married man in the first place. I’m speaking of married men not the most powerful man in the world. 
I did like the actress playing Ann Coulter, more than I generally like Ann Coulter. Wow, a lot of people built their careers on the destruction of Lewinsky’s life. That truth isn’t the focus but it is coming through in spite of the writing. Hmm, I’m thinking some of the problem with the show is that the writers and producers aren’t sure exactly what story they’re telling. 

[chick binewski]

5 hours ago, xhoipolloix said:

Bill and Monica are both so cringey. Did he really think she wouldn't tell anybody? 

I think while this was unraveling IRL that was one question that kept coming up - how Clinton could be so monumentally reckless at every turn. This wasn't a discreet 30ish political-savvy professional: Lewinsky was incredibly tenacious and how Clinton didn't see this biting him in the ass shows his bravado.

I can't say for sure how much input Lewinsky has in the show, but I'd be curious what Betty Currie - another Clinton casualty - thinks of her almost unaware yet supportive portrayal in the scandal. It really bothered me that they ushered in another one-note female character who might deserve a little better.

[BoogieBurns]

I wish I knew who everyone was supposed to be playing. Who was the George with Skeletor Ann Coulter? Also was that Laura Ingraham of Fox News? 

I'm doing my best, but they just aren't helping the (clueless/younger) viewers at all. Had to Google Billy Eichner's role so I could follow the first 10 minutes before they explained Drudge.

Beanie's body is undermining the complete nonsense of tabloids calling Monica overweight/obese. Beanie is overweight (BMI wise) and plus sized. Monica wasn't and isn't. They are doing their best to film her from her thinnest angles, but Beanie wasn't the right girl for the role. And I love Beanie and her body! 

I remember Leno doing a monologue (or 50) about how fat Monica was, and my chubby lil pre-teen self was really upset. She was not in bad shape! I was like "if she's fat, everyone is fat"

[LADreamr]

11 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

I remember Leno doing a monologue (or 50) about how fat Monica was, and my chubby lil pre-teen self was really upset. She was not in bad shape! I was like "if she's fat, everyone is fat"

Leno was awful, a lot.  He had this nice guy persona that he hid his venom behind, but he could be just terrible.  

[vibeology]

35 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

I wish I knew who everyone was supposed to be playing. Who was the George with Skeletor Ann Coulter? Also was that Laura Ingraham of Fox News? 

That's George Conway before he met and married Kellyanne. And yes, that's Laura Ingraham.

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, vibeology said:

That's George Conway before he met and married Kellyanne. And yes, that's Laura Ingraham.

Conway!!! I was like "why is Stephanopolus with Republican strategists?!" Lol

Thank you!

[DanaK]

Geeze, both Monica and Bill were being pathetic, but affairs are messy and I’m sure trying to end one is messy too, especially if one of them is married and a politician

I can’t quite understand why Linda was so adamant that Kathleen Willey was happy about her brush with Clinton when it seems like she hates Clinton. And she was pushing Monica to continue the affair because she liked the drama so much?

Hey Ann Coulter, you know there were scummy presidents having affairs long before Clinton. She acted like Clinton was the first one to do it

I didn’t realize that was Matt Drudge in the opening scene (boy was he acting creepy) until he was shown working on the Drudge Report website. And Linda bringing up the Drudge Report at her work computer and it coming up slowly made me laugh. Yes, websites were that slow in the 90s

What a scummy husband Paula had. And she continues to be used by people

[MaggieG]

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

Geeze, both Monica and Bill were being pathetic, but affairs are messy and I’m sure trying to end one is messy too, especially if one of them is married and a politician

I can’t quite understand why Linda was so adamant that Kathleen Willey was happy about her brush with Clinton when it seems like she hates Clinton. And she was pushing Monica to continue the affair because she liked the drama so much?

Hey Ann Coulter, you know there were scummy presidents having affairs long before Clinton. She acted like Clinton was the first one to do it

I didn’t realize that was Matt Drudge in the opening scene (boy was he acting creepy) until he was shown working on the Drudge Report website. And Linda bringing up the Drudge Report at her work computer and it coming up slowly made me laugh. Yes, websites were that slow in the 90s

What a scummy husband Paula had. And she continues to be used by people

I felt so bad for Paula during that meeting. She was ready to take the settlement and move on and everyone around her talks her out of it because they're all in it for their own reasons. Sadly it seemed like the only people kinda on her side were the lawyers.

[vibeology]

11 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

I felt so bad for Paula during that meeting. She was ready to take the settlement and move on and everyone around her talks her out of it because they're all in it for their own reasons. Sadly it seemed like the only people kinda on her side were the lawyers.

The lawyers were agreeing with Paula but they weren't really on her side. For them it was a guaranteed pay day with relatively little work. Now they have to go through with the lawsuit and all the work involved and it's much less of a sure thing since it will be Paula's word against the President's. They just wanted to get paid.

[AuntieMame]

13 hours ago, chick binewski said:

I think while this was unraveling IRL that was one question that kept coming up - how Clinton could be so monumentally reckless at every turn. This wasn't a discreet 30ish political-savvy professional: Lewinsky was incredibly tenacious and how Clinton didn't see this biting him in the ass shows his bravado.

I can't say for sure how much input Lewinsky has in the show, but I'd be curious what Betty Currie - another Clinton casualty - thinks of her almost unaware yet supportive portrayal in the scandal. It really bothered me that they ushered in another one-note female character who might deserve a little better.

Very good point @chick binewski. Even a slightly older woman would have understood the absolute need for discretion more than a naive young woman would have. Clinton was reckless. And for a man known for his charisma and his brains, thoughtless. Yes, yes, sex makes us all stupid but can you really combine that kind of lack of thought with any job that has serious can’t screw up responsibilities? 
I feel bad for Currie. Reading you can definitely see that there’s no way that she didn’t know what was going on, even putting discreet part of the job blinders on her eyes. You’re right that it would be fabulous to see more of her and what she thought and felt as she’s making calls and not logging them and ferrying presents and letters back and forth. Wondering if this has always been part of the job. Interaction with the secret service agents who were forced to be helpful and complicit too. Seriously, how did Currie and the agent on duty never raise their eyebrows at each other when they’re getting Monica in and out of the Oval Office. I know in Curries position I couldn’t have resisted the biggest possible eye roll at least once. 
Finally, it seems that Clinton had had a discreet office girlfriend that got furloughed during the government shutdown and was never replaced. Clinton was at loose ends. Since to this day we don’t know who she is I think we can say she was discreet. 
 

12 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

Beanie's body is undermining the complete nonsense of tabloids calling Monica overweight/obese. Beanie is overweight (BMI wise) and plus sized. Monica wasn't and isn't. They are doing their best to film her from her thinnest angles, but Beanie wasn't the right girl for the role. And I love Beanie and her body! 

I remember Leno doing a monologue (or 50) about how fat Monica was, and my chubby lil pre-teen self was really upset. She was not in bad shape! I was like "if she's fat, everyone is fat"

 

IMO, this is really what Monica was pilloried for. Monica was punished for being a fat girl. (Not that she is but that is how she and any woman over 120 pounds is perceived.) It wasn’t that she was a mistress it’s that she wasn’t the right kind of mistress. Too fat, too smart, too bourgeois. I read recently that access  to beautiful women isn’t a perk of power for men, it is one of the main points of power. If Clinton had gone for a leggy blonde I honestly don’t think we’d be watching this television show. Less important but still relevant, if Monica hadn’t been of the class that generally fills the bureaucratic positions in Washington. Clinton fooled around with a woman that was too much like peoples daughters and for some reason the response was not sympathy but the most brutal rage and contempt possible. 
@BoogieBurns Yes, we’re all fat pretty much. I’m glad you were angry about it all those years ago too. I was as well. But I’m betting we all learned the object lesson. I know I did. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by AuntieMame

[xhoipolloix]

1 hour ago, vibeology said:

The lawyers were agreeing with Paula but they weren't really on her side. For them it was a guaranteed pay day with relatively little work. Now they have to go through with the lawsuit and all the work involved and it's much less of a sure thing since it will be Paula's word against the President's. They just wanted to get paid.

Jones' lawyers did a huge amount of work before receiving the settlement offer. They represented her for four years before the settlement offer came in, and they bore the entire financial burden of the litigation. They briefed and argued Clinton's motion to dismiss at the district court, 8th Circuit and US Supreme Court, and they did discovery, as the trial judge wanted the case ready to go to trial as soon as Clinton left office. The lawyers took her case on contingency so they knew they could end up with nothing. Then they received a settlement offer for the full amount they asked for, which never happens. It was in Jones' best interest to settle at that point.

The person who wasn't acting in Jones' best interest was Susan Carpenter-McMillan. She wanted Clinton deposed so he would lie under oath, which could be used against him politically. She manipulated Jones into furthering her cause. During that time Jones was under a tremendous amount of stress. When the case finally did settle Jones ended up with about the same amount of money, which is a loss due to the time and stress involved.

[jmcd44]

On 9/22/2021 at 9:41 AM, txhorns79 said:

I've said it before, but I do love Linda's cubicle mate who regularly telegraphs her complete hatred for Linda. 

My favorite person on the show-she represents some of us (me at least!).

22 hours ago, Retired at last said:

I read something that said that Linda Tripp's daughter wished her mom could have seen this show, but why???

Based on her glee at seeing her name in Newsweek, she would probably love that the attention and that Sarah Paulson was playing her. Real question I will Google later-did she not get in trouble for speaking to the press without her boss's approval? I would get raked over the coals if I did that and I'm a gov't employee. 

The actress Laura Ingrahm had me laughing when she looked at fake Ann and just went "Coutler..." That will be the nicest thing I ever say tangentially about Laura Ingrahm. 

[DanaK]

14 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

Also was that Laura Ingraham of Fox News? 

I only knew that was her when Coulter saw her and called her "Laura" and then called her "Ingraham"

Everyone fluttering around Monica and Paula trying to use them are just yuck

Edited September 23, 2021 by DanaK

[iMonrey]

I get a sort of sick feeling that Drudge and Ann Coulter are being portrayed in a positive, almost righteous light on this show. I'm also still a bit annoyed the whole story revolves around Linda Tripp. I don't know if it's right to do it this way or not but I have a hard time believing Tripp is the main character in this story. And if some other (lesser) actress was playing her, the story would revolve more around Monica and Bill, or the Republican operatives trying to bring down the Clintons. We've seen nothing of Hillary since the first episode, what an odd waste of Edie Falco.

[Milburn Stone]

The more scenes Cobie Smulders has as Ann Coulter, the more she's knocking it out of the park.

Billy Eichner was amazing too.

My memory of the first episode might be hazy (already), but I kind of remember Willey the same way Tripp does--all girlish and giggly that "he kissed me!"

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I get a sort of sick feeling that Drudge and Ann Coulter are being portrayed in a positive, almost righteous light on this show. I'm also still a bit annoyed the whole story revolves around Linda Tripp. I don't know if it's right to do it this way or not but I have a hard time believing Tripp is the main character in this story. And if some other (lesser) actress was playing her, the story would revolve more around Monica and Bill, or the Republican operatives trying to bring down the Clintons. We've seen nothing of Hillary since the first episode, what an odd waste of Edie Falco.

I get what you are saying.  I will say that I'm a bit baffled that the show has glossed over what the Republicans were doing at this time.  This whole push to dig up dirt on the Clintons and get Bill impeached didn't happen in a vacuum.  Congressional and senate Republicans were also a factor with the walking ethics violation known as Newt Gingrich leading the charge.  I remember all of the gasping and pearl clutching Republicans were doing back in the 90s in the name of "family values" over Jocelyn Elders's sensible views about teenagers having sex.  And all the while, Newt is banging future wife #3 yet still married to wife #2.  

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Good casting on Matt Drudge. Back in the heyday of Usenet, I remember when he used to post pages of just links to news stories on various websites. He did it in a gossip newsgroup with little or no context provided, just links. It used to annoy people who hung out on that forum a lot and I think there were attempts to get him banned. Once the web became more commonly accessible he switched over and started presenting himself as a reporter. Essentially though he was just providing a news hub to other people's work. On the rare occasion that I've looked at his site in recent years the basic gist of it doesn't seem to have changed much.

Surprising to me that Hillary didn't want Bill to settle with Paula Jones. Why not? Surely she knew the accusations were true. Maybe she was afraid it would lead to tons of other women showing up wanting to be paid off too and that would be embarrassing for her?

I didn't realize Laura Ingraham and Ann Coulter hated each other. IMO they're basically the same person except Laura might have a slightly less grating personality. (Emphasis on "might." It seems like this show isn't providing an entirely accurate depiction of some people.)

WTF was this "just friends" thing Bill was trying to sell to Monica? How old was he, 12?

Geez, Linda was such a wannabe starfcuker. She lived for being able to namedrop celebrities and important people, most of whom probably couldn't pick her out of a lineup.

Ditto comments upthread, I'll never understand why Bill kept summoning Monica to his office to meet with alone. (Other than the obvious reason, of course.) He just kept the drama going and expanding, especially once he knew Monica was passing information to Linda Tripp.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Joimiaroxeu

[CountryGirl]

2 hours ago, DanaK said:

I only knew that was her when Coulter saw her and called her "Laura" and then called her "Ingraham"

Everyone fluttering around Monica and Paula trying to use them are just yuck

For The Bold and the Beautiful watchers, Laura Ingraham was played by Kim Matula (Hope Logan).

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

WTF was this "just friends" thing Bill was trying to sell to Monica? How old was he, 12?

Yes.

[DanaK]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I get a sort of sick feeling that Drudge and Ann Coulter are being portrayed in a positive, almost righteous light on this show.

I'm not sure I agree. They certainly seem to be portraying Coulter as a little obsessed with getting something on Clinton and acting like he's the only one to ever sully the office of President. Drudge just seems like a wannabe journalist, a little creepy and a schlub

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

For The Bold and the Beautiful watchers, Laura Ingraham was played by Kim Matula (Hope Logan).

That's where I knew her from! I recognized the face but I couldn't place it.

[chocolatine]

On 9/21/2021 at 9:13 PM, peridot said:

Linda is something else.  Why did she accuse Kathleen of lying and embellished what happened to her in the White House?

I think Linda blamed Kathleen for "stealing" her White House job. Remember in the first episode, they interviewed together, but only Kathleen was hired.

[lovinbob]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:44 PM, vibeology said:

That's George Conway before he met and married Kellyanne. And yes, that's Laura Ingraham.

Did I hear Coulter call that group of guys "the elves"? If so I believe one of those guys in the group must be Brett Kavanaugh--he was affiliated with them at the time. 

17 hours ago, DanaK said:

I can’t quite understand why Linda was so adamant that Kathleen Willey was happy about her brush with Clinton when it seems like she hates Clinton. And she was pushing Monica to continue the affair because she liked the drama so much?

I took this as Linda being angry that Kathleen assumed she would back up her story when at that point Linda was holding a grudge against Kathleen for getting that job while Linda was banished to the Pentagon.

God, Linda is pathetic, loathsome and miserable. The Major Dad subplot was lowkey hilarious, and I howled when the tour was canceled (by Dean Pelton from Community!) I wonder if that's really true, that she was such a nebbish trying to make herself more important than she was? It makes as much sense as anything! 

Speaking of unexpected cast members, I had no idea it was Rae Dawn Chong playing Betty Currie! I loved her in the 80s. 

[chlban]

19 hours ago, DanaK said:

I'm not sure I agree. They certainly seem to be portraying Coulter as a little obsessed with getting something on Clinton and acting like he's the only one to ever sully the office of President. Drudge just seems like a wannabe journalist, a little creepy and a schlub

That's how I see it. But, to be fair, I could never see Coulter in any kind if positive or righteous light, so maybe the issue is mine, not the show.

[cardigirl]

On 9/22/2021 at 5:19 PM, AuntieMame said:

That’s a very good point; charisma can partake of both the dark and light in a person’s character. That’s given me a lot to think about. 

That got me too. Especially the line about how both Monica and Clinton were highly emotional and volatile. It would be a long shot for anyone in a relationship with somebody emotionally unavailable to not have at least one confidante, but adding that emotional typology? It does make you wonder why he never thought about it. Especially because the mistress generally has nothing to do but wait around for the phone to ring and obsess about their lover. Young women in these situations will confide. And a young woman with the self esteem and spine to keep that kind of a secret would probably either not appeal (doesn’t set off the predator instincts) or wouldn’t get involved with a married man in the first place. I’m speaking of married men not the most powerful man in the world. 

 

On 9/22/2021 at 9:44 PM, chick binewski said:

I think while this was unraveling IRL that was one question that kept coming up - how Clinton could be so monumentally reckless at every turn. This wasn't a discreet 30ish political-savvy professional: Lewinsky was incredibly tenacious and how Clinton didn't see this biting him in the ass shows his bravado.

I can't say for sure how much input Lewinsky has in the show, but I'd be curious what Betty Currie - another Clinton casualty - thinks of her almost unaware yet supportive portrayal in the scandal. It really bothered me that they ushered in another one-note female character who might deserve a little better.

 

On 9/23/2021 at 10:52 AM, AuntieMame said:

Very good point @chick binewski. Even a slightly older woman would have understood the absolute need for discretion more than a naive young woman would have. Clinton was reckless. And for a man known for his charisma and his brains, thoughtless. Yes, yes, sex makes us all stupid but can you really combine that kind of lack of thought with any job that has serious can’t screw up responsibilities? 
I feel bad for Currie. Reading you can definitely see that there’s no way that she didn’t know what was going on, even putting discreet part of the job blinders on her eyes. You’re right that it would be fabulous to see more of her and what she thought and felt as she’s making calls and not logging them and ferrying presents and letters back and forth. Wondering if this has always been part of the job. Interaction with the secret service agents who were forced to be helpful and complicit too. Seriously, how did Currie and the agent on duty never raise their eyebrows at each other when they’re getting Monica in and out of the Oval Office. I know in Curries position I couldn’t have resisted the biggest possible eye roll at least once. 
Finally, it seems that Clinton had had a discreet office girlfriend that got furloughed during the government shutdown and was never replaced. Clinton was at loose ends. Since to this day we don’t know who she is I think we can say she was discreet. 
 

IMO, this is really what Monica was pilloried for. Monica was punished for being a fat girl. (Not that she is but that is how she and any woman over 120 pounds is perceived.) It wasn’t that she was a mistress it’s that she wasn’t the right kind of mistress. Too fat, too smart, too bourgeois. I read recently that access  to beautiful women isn’t a perk of power for men, it is one of the main points of power. If Clinton had gone for a leggy blonde I honestly don’t think we’d be watching this television show. Less important but still relevant, if Monica hadn’t been of the class that generally fills the bureaucratic positions in Washington. Clinton fooled around with a woman that was too much like peoples daughters and for some reason the response was not sympathy but the most brutal rage and contempt possible. 
@BoogieBurns Yes, we’re all fat pretty much. I’m glad you were angry about it all those years ago too. I was as well. But I’m betting we all learned the object lesson. I know I did. 

 

On 9/23/2021 at 1:21 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Surprising to me that Hillary didn't want Bill to settle with Paula Jones. Why not? Surely she knew the accusations were true. Maybe she was afraid it would lead to tons of other women showing up wanting to be paid off too and that would be embarrassing for her?

Ditto comments upthread, I'll never understand why Bill kept summoning Monica to his office to meet with alone. (Other than the obvious reason, of course.) He just kept the drama going and expanding, especially once he knew Monica was passing information to Linda Tripp.

I think the real issue is that women were not viewed as complete individuals of any consequence. None of the women shown so far have any real power or agency over their lives. Sure, they could and did have jobs, and some of them were even in the White House, but were they running things? 

Clinton felt he had the right as the mostpowerfulmanintheworld to do whatever he wanted, and it was no one else's business. He also didn't really think about how it might affect anyone else, and certainly not the women involved. So of course he didn't think at all about choosing carefully. Maybe he even thought he felt love for Monica. But he wasn't acting in her best interests. (Many men felt that way about women, though. Women were commodities and should be grateful, not problematic.) 

 

As far as settling with Paula, or the other women who had come forward earlier, I thought the strategy of settling was viewed as admitting there was truth to their accusations. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by cardigirl

[blueroses]

The Gerald McRaney subplot was so funny and random. 

[Tdoc72]

On 9/23/2021 at 7:02 AM, DanaK said:

 

And Linda bringing up the Drudge Report at her work computer and it coming up slowly made me laugh. Yes, websites were that slow in the 

I showed the internet bootup scene to my teens. They asked if it really took that long and laughed. I said yep and we just did what they showed him doing—little tasks that didn’t take very long. I usually would straighten up my desk 

6 hours ago, blueroses said:

The Gerald McRaney subplot was so funny and random. 

I laughed every time they mentioned him or had her watching Major Dad. I wonder if that was true and wondered if Gerald saw or heard about this show. 

[Neiman]

I think the actress playing Coulter is doing a great job. The Laura Ingrahm actress not so much. Surprised she didn’t have a giant cross necklace. Did she not wear those in the 90s like she has in recent years?

The Major Dad story must have been disappointing for Linda. She dedicated her life to DC, yet kept getting the shaft. She comes across as a little OCD. I wouldn’t want my co-worker’s dirty trays, etc., in my workspace either. 

LOL at the letter Linda and Monica write Clinton. Wonder if that really happened and if the original was ever found?

[blueroses]

What was the thing about who went to which law school? Professor Wiki tells me Laura Ingraham got her law degree at UVA. Is that more prestigious than Michigan or did I miss something?

[Neiman]

I wonder if this series will include any of Monica’s perspective about her relationship with another married man, her high school drama teacher, Andy Bleiler. I remember the headlines back then and noticed another one this morning mentioning it. That allegedly began when she was 19 and before Clinton. 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Neiman

[AuntieMame]

22 hours ago, cardigirl said:

 

 

 

I think the real issue is that women were not viewed as complete individuals of any consequence. None of the women shown so far have any real power or agency over their lives. Sure, they could and did have jobs, and some of them were even in the White House, but were they running things? 

Clinton felt he had the right as the mostpowerfulmanintheworld to do whatever he wanted, and it was no one else's business. He also didn't really think about how it might affect anyone else, and certainly not the women involved. So of course he didn't think at all about choosing carefully. Maybe he even thought he felt love for Monica. But he wasn't acting in her best interests. (Many men felt that way about women, though. Women were commodities and should be grateful, not problematic.) 

 

As far as settling with Paula, or the other women who had come forward earlier, I thought the strategy of settling was viewed as admitting there was truth to their accusations. 

There it is, the biggest unexamined assumption in our society: that women are commodities that men absolutely have the right to pursue if not the all out right of access. I believed this subconsciously myself for most of my life. This is what objectification is; it has nothing to do with relative looks or femininity. It is the idea that women as a set are here for the service and delectation of men. Scapegoatings like the one ML suffers to this day are to remind us all what happens when we fail in our perceived duties or when we cause problems. Monica’s experience also highlights internalized misogyny and how women will kill one of their own to save themselves. Look at the reaction of the feminists at the time. Feminists that should have known better. The depth of the vitriol and hatred is what fascinates me, until I remember that it is an actual human being who suffered this. And then I’m just sad. 

[stonehaven]

I'm not really enjoying the show as I feel likeI have no one to really root for. Maybe the Newsweek reporter but everyone is just doing so many unlikable things, it makes it hard to care. I will watch the whole thing as I bought it all on Prime.

The only thing that took me out of it was when Tripp was listening to the radio and the captions said "Rush Limbaugh's voice" and I laughed because that guy sounded nowhere near Limbaugh....( I listened to him in the 90's for a time).

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

He covered a Joey Lawrence concert (talk about high level cultural stuff) and reported that his tween fans "were literally lactating with excitement." That was a hilarious week on the internet.

OMG, I'd forgotten about the "lactating" thing. That's when it definitely became clear to me that this guy was not hooked up right.

Quote

Some day the truth about whoever positioned Drudge will come out.

If anyone cares at this point. Anyone besides the Clintons, anyway.

[Neiman]

I agree about having no one to root for. 

From what I recall, they have softened the character of Kathleen Wiley compared to real life. Anybody else notice that? I’m finding some interesting fact check articles online, but none have really mentioned Kathleen.

 

[helenamonster]

I really didn't know a lot about Matt Drudge as a person, but am not surprised to learn that he's one of those guys that thinks wearing a hat is the same thing as having a personality.

The AOL tone is as soothing as a lullaby. I miss it so much.

Linda really was one of those people that would be all "I don't want to get involved, but" that I absolutely can't stand. That combined with her inflated sense of self-importance is extremely off-putting. Did she really not understand why people didn't like her?

Crazy how many personalities got their boost from this. Coulter, Conway, Ingraham...ghouls all the way down.

On 9/23/2021 at 12:49 PM, iMonrey said:

I get a sort of sick feeling that Drudge and Ann Coulter are being portrayed in a positive, almost righteous light on this show.

I don't see Drudge being portrayed as righteous, but he was right about one (very big) thing: what news would look like in the age of the internet. The Lewinsky scandal was one of the first (perhaps the first?) major stories to break exclusively online, and I can see how people who'd worked for news outlets that had been around for decades didn't see that coming. They were these huge institutions staffed entirely of people with journalism degrees from elite schools, who had fact checkers and sources and access that your regular Joe Blow Nobody with a dial-up connection would never get, so how could they beat them to a reliable scoop? 20+ years later and traditional journalism is still very much behind the eight ball when it comes to news that originates from the internet. 

It is kind of interesting that Drudge peaked with the Lewinsky thing and then failed to maintain a prominent presence, despite pioneering the space. Apparently The Drudge Report is still a functioning website, but I never see it referenced, even as a point of mockery--it's completely irrelevant as other sites have surpassed it. However, thanks to some of the context provided here about his pre-Web 2.0 presence in Usenet groups and such (very interesting, by the way!), he seems like he was just a guy that was in the right place at the right time but didn't have the smarts to capitalize on it. Even just spamming groups with links to other sites was precursor to the content farms we see now, and he's still a one-hit wonder. I won't pretend to be disappointed.

Coulter I think is tougher because she's played by Cobie Smulders, a talented actress who can't help but be witty and charming, two things the real Coulter will never be. But I think to counterbalance that the show is making an effort to stress that Coulter and her "elves" don't actually care about any wrongs Clinton may have done anybody, they are in it for the political advantage and nothing else.

[AuntieMame]

I didn’t know just how many journalists launched their internet careers on the back of the scandal. That’s um interesting. Does anyone else remember when journalism was an honorable profession? I guess this is the slide from news media to entertainment industry. There did used to be a difference. 

[chick binewski]

 

8 hours ago, Neiman said:

I agree about having no one to root for. 

From what I recall, they have softened the character of Kathleen Wiley compared to real life. Anybody else notice that? I’m finding some interesting fact check articles online, but none have really mentioned Kathleen.

I think Willey's story is difficult to tell because it's incredibly convoluted. Multiple sources state she pursued Clinton - writing him and making attempts to be present whenever the Clintons were around, she changed her story several times, Tripp was not the only friend whose name was given to Isikoff (Starr ended up charging one of Willey's friends with obstruction - which stemmed from Willey asking said friend to feed false info to Isikoff), Willey's husband committed suicide the day of the alleged assault, and after the Clinton incident but before the impeachment Willey told some bonkers story to a boyfriend about being pregnant. Brett Kavanaugh advised Starr not to use her bc it would be a disaster.

 

11 hours ago, Neiman said:

I wonder if this series will include any of Monica’s perspective about her relationship with another married man, her high school drama teacher, Andy Bleiler. I remember the headlines back then and noticed another one this morning mentioning it. That allegedly began when she was 19 and before Clinton. 

You know, not for the purposes of shaming but I had been wondering if they were going to backload all this info but (tagging in case it comes off as spoiler-y)

Spoiler

I believe Bleiler will be addressed in next week's episode. On reviewer called the scene "touching", so I'm guessing they're not going into Monica staying in touch with the wife.

 

[poeticlicensed]

On 9/24/2021 at 11:53 AM, cardigirl said:

Clinton felt he had the right as the mostpowerfulmanintheworld to do whatever he wanted, and it was no one else's business.

Lack of impulse control coupled with entitlement will land you in a heap of trouble. But before this, Clinton managed to get others to cover for him or got the girls to disappear and deny. What he didn't count on was the determination of the Washington elites to not look the other way.

I remember the Monica jokes. I have always thought she was beautiful and Bill certainly had a type, he liked em voluptuous. 

I want to know how George Conway feels about how he is being portrayed. 

I feel like Paula Jones is being played for laughs, but there's nothing funny about what happened to her. Was her husband as much an ass as they are portraying him to be? I dont remember him at all. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 9/24/2021 at 12:14 AM, lovinbob said:

God, Linda is pathetic, loathsome and miserable. The Major Dad subplot was lowkey hilarious, and I howled when the tour was canceled (by Dean Pelton from Community!) I wonder if that's really true, that she was such a nebbish trying to make herself more important than she was? It makes as much sense as anything! 

How many times did she say the name Gerald McRaney?  It was like 45 times!

Edited September 29, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[wendyg]

The history of Drudge presented here is spot-on. The Usenet newsgroup (where I encountered him circa 1994) was alt.showbiz.gossip, and it was a particularly snarky haven for people mocking Hollywood bullshit. (The pre-TWoP, I guess.) Drudge also had a period of lactating excitement over the movie BABE. And yes, he used to post long lists of links to that newsgroup that was just as annoying there as it would be here, and then found success on the web. He wasn't aiming at Humphrey Bogart, though - his role model was gossip columnist Walter Winchell. Hence the hat.

Drudge was most noticed for the "breaking news" aspect of his website, but the *other* thing that made it successful (and makes it useful even today) is the extensive links to newspapers, wire services, columnists, etc. When it started, it was *incredibly* useful to have that because there was nothing comparable. The best search engine of those pre-Google (founded 1998) days was Altavista, which was not bad, but it was incredibly cluttered with screen noise. Even now, Drudge is the fastest way to locate the current output of syndicated columnists. He has long passed peak *notoriety*, but his website is still getting 22 million visits a day, and even if it's not the one-man band of the 1990s it's still going to be a very small, lean operation that pays its owner far better than any other outlet would.

A lot of ridiculous hot air was spouted about Drudge by journalists far too impressed with their own "seriousness". Even at the time it was obvious that Rupert Murdoch had done more damage to serious journalism than Drudge ever would.