S02.E02: New World Order/S02.E03: The Outlaw Eddie Wagner

[WendyCR72]

Double episodes tonight, back to back! Airing on September 30, 2021. Descriptions for both are together via Zap2it, as the database still has no details...

Quote

Stabler's loyalty is put to the test at work and again at home when his mother unexpectedly shows up; while Jet steps into the field to secure necessary intel for the team, Bell considers a proposition from Congressman Kilbride.

 

[Girl in a Cardigan]

According to Meloni's Instagram, this is another SVU crossover, so it's a three-part episode? https://www.instagram.com/p/CUdkfAljCx4/

(I'm behind as I haven't watched the premiere yet, but wanted to share in case people need to see SVU to get what's happening on OC.)

 

[TooMuchRealityTV]

The Benson/Stabler nonsense is too soapy for me. I don't think the show needs it. I don't care who wrote the damn letter.

So am I to assume that Stabler telling his kids to take Momma home means we have gained another unnecessary Stabler? Lovely.

I actually do like the case. It's much more interesting than Wheatley, and it has a lot of moving parts. It's too bad the show feels they need to constantly bring in Benson for more drama.

Edited October 1, 2021 by TooMuchRealityTV

[michelec]

I must admit I was quite amused with Organized Crime Twitter having a collective meltdown when the SS Bensler hit an iceberg.

The storyline, action, and plot twists are making this an enjoyable series. All that Elliot/Olivia stuff grinds the show to a halt. No more crossovers, please and thank you. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, michelec said:

I must admit I was quite amused with Organized Crime Twitter having a collective meltdown when the SS Bensler hit an iceberg.

"I'm king (okay, queen, in my case!) of the world!"

It hit an iceberg, you say?! Cool! Now I will watch this on Peacock, then. Frankly, after the previews, I didn't watch in real time in case it went to complete shit. Now that I know it's safe (for now, anyway!), I'll watch. (Grateful for all of you that watched first so I could prepare myself! I know, bad mod.)

[Raja]

I certainly didn't see the Nova twist coming. 

[linger]

1 hour ago, michelec said:

I must admit I was quite amused with Organized Crime Twitter having a collective meltdown when the SS Bensler hit an iceberg.

The storyline, action, and plot twists are making this an enjoyable series. All that Elliot/Olivia stuff grinds the show to a halt. No more crossovers, please and thank you. 

I’m mot on Twitter, so I’m curious why they think it hit an iceberg. Because they didn’t have sex? Otherwise it was a pretty solid indication of Elliot’s feelings. I will say, the whole letter thing was weird. My guess is that the writers had no idea what the letter said when they wrote those original episodes. But this was a strange way to resolve it.

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, TooMuchRealityTV said:

The Benson/Stabler nonsense is too soapy for me. I don't think the show needs it.

Does this show exist for any other reason, though? Or, does it exist with Elliot for any other reason? There's a huge pool of actors out there to choose from and they could have easily created a new character but they chose to bring back Elliot, a cop with an anger management problem who got rough with a suspect on occasion. Ever since I saw the first episodes of L&O OC, I couldn't shake the feeling that they chose to bring back Elliot because they wanted to milk the Elliot and Olivia relationship for all that it's worth.

While I don't mind it (and don't think they could have brought Elliot back and not have Olivia and Elliot interact) I think I would have prefered had they chosen fresh faces only and concentrated on the undercover part of the show. There's just so much you can do with organized crime.

If Elliot didn't write the letter, why did he give it to Olivia?

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, CheshireCat said:

If Elliot didn't write the letter, why did he give it to Olivia?

So said letter could fuck with the shippers? Seems like it was all a way to keep them wondering and, more importantly, waiting and watching - and then the rug got pulled. (Fine with me, but it does seem kind of mean for those viewers.)

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

So said letter could fuck with the shippers? Seems like it was all a way to keep them wondering and, more importantly, waiting and watching - and then the rug got pulled. (Fine with me, but it does seem kind of mean for those viewers.)

I hope you don't expect this to have been the last we heard (or saw) of the letter 😉

[WendyCR72]

14 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

I hope you don't expect this to have been the last we heard (or saw) of the letter 😉

I know better. But I'll be relieved until that hideous day!

[Cristofle]

7 hours ago, michelec said:

I must admit I was quite amused with Organized Crime Twitter having a collective meltdown when the SS Bensler hit an iceberg.

The storyline, action, and plot twists are making this an enjoyable series. All that Elliot/Olivia stuff grinds the show to a halt. No more crossovers, please and thank you. 

I saw that the Twitterverse freaked out, only further making me feel like I'm on this weird little island of one. I don't want the crossovers to stop. I like Meloni and Hargitay working together, and it's a kind of enjoyable trip for me to see a headcanon I've had for so many years actually confirmed onscreen (that Elliot and Olivia were having an emotional affair and all things being equal, a big part of him wished he could have just gone off and been with her after he and Kathy separated, but the good Catholic boy in him won out). However, no part of this twist freaks me out, because I don't think these two are anywhere within an ocean of being ready to embark on any kind of real relationship (and I'm not sure they ever will be, although the writing for them at this time makes me think they are eventually headed in that direction, but not without a lot of angst/back and forth). The only thing I (still) wish is that they hadn't set this up with Kathy being blown up, but that she'd decided to leave him after ten more years of trying to make it work and knowing he was still harboring this thing for a woman he hadn't seen in ten years. Kathy left him once before - I don't know why she felt the need to strong-arm him into writing a mostly false kiss-off letter. It's not the BEST look on her that she felt so threatened as to need to do that, but on the other hand, it's not like Elliot's current behavior is not proving her point. I've also seen questions of why would Elliot give Olivia the letter when Kathy was dead anyway. In that case, I think her being dead is the answer. He felt too much guilt not to follow through on her wishes. Elliot has not been making smart and sensible decisions recently, lol. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

6 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

If Elliot didn't write the letter, why did he give it to Olivia?

Wasn’t Kathy still alive at that point who might have said: “I wrote the damn letter you’d better give it to her”  Or he gave it to her because he felt trauma from his wife’s death and figured she wanted Olivia to read it whatever.

The letter certainly was a big “Respectly Yours, back off” when you think of Kathy writing it.  Nice of Stabler to add in the next part.

If the woman sprayed the Mickey in her mouth before she kissed Stabler, wouldn’t that mean she would be getting dosed as well?  Or that not how things work?  Also, was it her idea or one of the Albanian guys?  And to what end?

I didn’t see the Nova twist coming, and the scene in the church.

And I bit when the Albanian was all set to kill Stabler because of what he saw at the club- yikes!  I knew Stabler wasn’t going to die but it a tense scene nonetheless

[Raja]

52 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Wasn’t Kathy still alive at that point who might have said: “I wrote the damn letter you’d better give it to her”  Or he gave it to her because he felt trauma from his wife’s death and figured she wanted Olivia to read it whatever.

The letter certainly was a big “Respectly Yours, back off” when you think of Kathy writing it.  Nice of Stabler to add in the next part.

If the woman sprayed the Mickey in her mouth before she kissed Stabler, wouldn’t that mean she would be getting dosed as well?  Or that not how things work?  Also, was it her idea or one of the Albanian guys?  And to what end?

I didn’t see the Nova twist coming, and the scene in the church.

And I bit when the Albanian was all set to kill Stabler because of what he saw at the club- yikes!  I knew Stabler wasn’t going to die but it a tense scene nonetheless

I think it was the intent that beyond the phone and promotion that "Eddie" would have gotten the sexual reward. And sex workers have been known to self medicate in order to do their work.

[Cristofle]

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

The letter certainly was a big “Respectly Yours, back off” when you think of Kathy writing it.  Nice of Stabler to add in the next part.

It definitely was, but I still wonder what Kathy thought it would do? She must have believed Elliot was communicating with Olivia behind her back, is all I can think (in reality, Olivia didn't actually do anything to deserve being told to back off because she HAD backed all the way off - she hadn't seen or spoken to him in a decade). It's kind of sad, really. Kathy clearly had problems in her marriage that no letter was going to fix, if she was (apparently correctly) discerning her husband still had SUCH a massive thing for a woman he had not spoken to in over a decade. 

[michelec]

10 hours ago, linger said:

I’m mot on Twitter, so I’m curious why they think it hit an iceberg. Because they didn’t have sex? 

Bingo. Folks saw the previews and let their imaginations run wild. Anything short of them ending up in bed together was gonna be a big letdown.

After that scene, much of the Twitterverse was livid, feeling like they had been played.

[milkyaqua]

Okay, well that whole "letter" subplot was unnecessary.  As for Kathy having wrote it, not necessarily surprised because Kathy always seemed to have issues where Olivia was concerned.  That she would do it even after they'd been in Italy for along as they had, okay that's bonkers but who knows exactly when she wrote it?  If it had been years ago, Elliot giving it to Olivia after all that time was dumb but again we're not talking brain trusts here...  I do wish TPTB would figure out how they want to actually resolve/deal with this because teasing a long time shipperverse does seem cold.

So exactly what is going to happen with his mom, Bernie?  The kids are supposed to watch over her and how is that supposed to work exactly since they do have lives?

Also didn't see the Nova thing coming.  Bell looks to be getting sucked into whatever the congressman is doing but just how will this affect her sting operation since he's obviously dirty and will this somehow compromise Stabler and/or Nova?

Speaking of which, I figured Lolita Davidovich wasn't just a one time appearance so we'll see how that awkwardness goes down.  And I knew Elliot wouldn't get taken out but really?  You have a secret on a psycho?  We're supposed to believe that Albi is going to just let Stabler in the inner circle and just be trusted to not at sometime decide he can't trust Elliot after all and then not try and kill him especially if he's trying to get close to the wife? 

 

[Xeliou66]

This episode would’ve been decent if it wasn’t for the soapy crap - Stabler mom drama plus Stabler/Benson drama, it really dragged down the episode. I was relieved when St Olivia didn’t appear in hour 2. I just don’t like the soapy stuff, the actual case with Stabler undercover is pretty good though.

It’s hard to keep track of who’s who at times, but I’m liking this case a lot better than the Wheatley case, which just didn’t make much sense to me. This is much more believable, no supervillains, just lowlife scum operating in the drug trade.

I also don’t like the subplot with Bell about her wife suing the police, it feels very forced, I guess they will work it in to the main story by tying the slimy Congressman into the drug trade case but it feels unnecessary. 

[Cristofle]

Small thing, but as an old Scandal viewer, it was kind of fun to see Guillermo Diaz flinch at the sight of severed fingers. 

I had a feeling Nova was already UC when Bell had her in the car, but Meloni's reaction to her coming into the squad room was great. 

[mtlchick]

Best part of the two hours was when Mama Stabler was having her breakdown in the kitchen, the cat right behind her was taking a long stretch into nap position. 
 

This was a lot to take in. Really surprised about Nova, I would expect that they would hold off on that reveal for a few more weeks. Lots of moving parts which kept us on our toes. As for the letter…bah. Kathy had her issues with Olivia.  Olivia did see other men (bring in Dean Winters to really throw things into a loop!) eventually. Stabler was barely mentioned after he left the first time. Why drag all this up? For fan service? Feh.

That said, as kooky as this show is, at least I’m moderately entertained compared to SVU.

[Raja]

I am trying to figure out what New York has to show for Nova being undercover for 6 years? Before the reveal and after it just seems like the Marcy Corporation has been provided an extra soldier. Besides one guy finishing off his prison sentence there is no sign that they suffered any setback from the authorities.

[milkyaqua]

Just now, Raja said:

I am trying to figure out what New York has to show for Nova being undercover for 6 years? Before the reveal and after it just seems like the Marcy Corporation has been provided an extra soldier. Besides one guy finishing off his prison sentence there is no sign that they suffered any setback from the authorities.

That doesn't actually bother me.  I can see maybe a small fish here and there but it taking her awhile to work her way up makes sense.  I know people expect things to happen fast on TV but in reality that probably wouldn't be the case (Elliot and Albi aside).

I also forgot to mention the shootout in the diner that came at just the right time since it ties back into my question last week of nobody recognizing Elliot as cop from back in the day no matter how big NYC is.  Wonder if there'll be another close call...

[catrice2]

Well I have been doing this too long bc I knew he was gay when he asked Stabler to bury the body and I guessed about Nova.

 

I do not need Benson on this show. I like this case and cast of characters. 

The are also showing how "Eddie's" friend is getting jealous of him and will end up following him or something.   Stabler' s mom is going to be how they find out about him.

Bell will suss out MT . Not sure how I feel about Bell and Nova. 

Like the hacker but I would like to see a strong team.

Is it me or are they showing CM s backside more?

[SuzieQ]

The letter BS was unnecessary and puke worthy, but I actually like that Stabler's mother made an appearance.  As soon as Stabler said his mother was dead, I had a feeling she would show up.  I'm enjoying this show but just wish it would sink or swim on it's own without the Olivia drama.  It feels like the writers think it's necessary in order to hook the SVU audience, when it's actually a much better show than SVU.

[catrice2]

Listen, now that they are bringing my original back I could not be happier. 

I agree, this is already a better show than SVU, but that is not saying much. It has the potential to be much better if they would focus on IT and not the Olivia and Stabler connection, or the home life of the detectives. 

Again, other than the mentions about Jack's daddy issues, Lenny's drinking in the past, and Ray's faith, we did not know a ton about the original characters.  We found out more about Anita in the episode where she shot the young boy, Mike when he was dealing with the pedophile priest, but it wasn't until much later we even realized the extent of Green's gambling.  Still, none of those things dominated like Olivia's family issues and numerous assaults on SVU  and now Stabler's personal issues here.  I am sorry, but I would have liked to see a man who was with a woman from teens or early adulthood mourn her more, see more flashbacks of their life and how she contributed to who he was than the Olivia drama.  Poor Kathy is being treated like a duty or obligation, when she was trying to move on with her life when they broke up, and HE was the one that wanted to get back together...

I do not mind Bell having a wife, but the story with her nephew just seems shoe horned in and I have no interest in seeing her being used as a political pawn. 

Side note...I loved her jacket and I am still thirsting over the jackets that Dylan wore last season...

[CheshireCat]

12 hours ago, milkyaqua said:

I also forgot to mention the shootout in the diner that came at just the right time since it ties back into my question last week of nobody recognizing Elliot as cop from back in the day no matter how big NYC is.  Wonder if there'll be another close call...

That's what I was musing after I posted about how they could easily have found a new actor and created a new character. I doubt that they would put Elliot undercover in real life. The guy's been a NYC police officer for more than 12 years. It's not a stretch by any means to believe that someone from the NYPD is on a crime outfit's payroll or that several officers are and that at least one person could recognize him. Elliot has also handled high profile cases and testified in court. Ther are TV recordings and pictures in newspapers. And that's just from the top of my head. The risk that he would get made seems awfully high and far too high for anyone to be willing to take that risk.

[Snazzy Daisy]

I like the Albanian case more than the Wheatley case. And Nova/Carmen is a nice twist. I still miss Gina!

Am a bit lost re the lame letter. So, Elliot has been secretly in love with Olivia all this time? And Kathy never got over her jealousy towards Olivia? Nahh, I don’t buy it. I hope Noah doesn’t like Elliot for some reasons, then case closed. Hey Olivia, stop appearing in OC and ohh, you should reconnect with Brian Cassidy instead.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

I hope Noah doesn’t like Elliot for some reasons, then case closed.

I have made no secret about schmoopiness between Stabler/Benson [big no!], but no way should a parent have their life dictated by their children, either. If Stabler was a killer or predator or whatnot, that's different. But just general dislike? No. Maybe S/B can just decide that too much time has passed and there is too much drama within to make it work.

With that said, I do agree that I am not here for the Harlequin Romance adventures of Stabler and Benson!

[catrice2]

22 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I have made no secret about schmoopiness between Stabler/Benson [big no!], but no way should a parent have their life dictated by their children, either. If Stabler was a killer or predator or whatnot, that's different. But just general dislike? No. Maybe S/B can just decide that too much time has passed and there is too much drama within to make it work.

With that said, I do agree that I am not here for the Harlequin Romance adventures of Stabler and Benson!

 

Sorry, I did not realize there had been a part of this episode on SVU. Did something happen on SVU that was tied to this case? 

I believe there is no way that the head guy does not know his top lieutenant is gay.   Someone like that would know everything, and if Stabler was able to find out so quickly then he would be able to.  I am also not loving his wife taking an interest in Stabler, and trying to figure out where the girl in the diner is going to pop up in this whole thing. 

First it was the friend's mother with the tea, now the wife that has all this "intuition."  Also agree with how absurd it is that Stabler is undercover with just a beard after being involved in the Wheatley case.  It was clear that Wheatley was tracking him and there is no reason to believe he would not still be, and no one ever said anything about the setup he had where he had cameras all over town!   I hate when shows are not consistent about these things. 

I laughed at the "accurate" Harlequin Romance.  I guess I fail to understand the fandom! So there are people, who are probably mostly women, actively hoping that some man preferred his colleague over his wife who was at home raising their kids primarily on her own while he went undercover, etc.?  And they had a LOT of children!    

And that he was probably not 100 percent present in his marital relationship because he was lusting over his coworker?  Then what, he stays with his wife out of obligation and she tanks every relationship she ever had because he was "the one."  Nah, nothing romantic about that for me.   was way more invested in her getting back together with Cassidy because I was watching way back then and hated the way he and the female detective were let go.  But of course, they had to ruin his character to remain aligned with their "ship" fans.  I don't respect writers who cave to the fans....

[CrystalBlue]

On 9/30/2021 at 10:30 PM, Raja said:

I certainly didn't see the Nova twist coming. 

I had no idea Nova was a fake name and her real name is Carmen either!  😃

[CheshireCat]

15 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I laughed at the "accurate" Harlequin Romance.  I guess I fail to understand the fandom! So there are people, who are probably mostly women, actively hoping that some man preferred his colleague over his wife who was at home raising their kids primarily on her own while he went undercover, etc.?  And they had a LOT of children!    

And that he was probably not 100 percent present in his marital relationship because he was lusting over his coworker?  Then what, he stays with his wife out of obligation and she tanks every relationship she ever had because he was "the one." 

To be fair, Elliot and Kathy had separated and, I believe, divorce was even on the table. Then there was a case that got to Elliot and he and Kathy spent the night together, she wound up pregnant and Elliot went back to her, sort of out of obligation, at least, it was implied if memory serves.

That said, this whole letter thing is weird. I don't buy that Kathy was jealous either. I think it's plausible that Elliot and Kathy had a comfortable relationship with each other and cared for each other without being madly in love with each other. And yes, it's possible that Elliot developed feelings for Olivia that he never dealt with (because the guy's Catholic and faithful and Eli happened). But why would Kathy be jealous after all these years? That would imply that she wasn't aware of the state their marriage was in when she got pregnant with Eli which isn't fair to her. It makes her naive and unwilling to accept reality and I never got that impression from her. Plus, why would she be jealous after Liv and Elliot spent years and years living their separate ways without any contact with each other? Even if she sensed that Elliot was preoccupied or whatever, she would only be jealous if she still believed their marriage was where it was way before their separation which, again, I find unfair to her. To me, this makes no sense and I have no idea why TPTB thought it somehow would or why they felt it was necessary to make Kathy the bad guy. Maybe it'll turn out that Elliot wrote the letter after all? (Which would make little sense either because he was on drugs and it makes more sense that he was telling the truth than that he lied).

[Tachi Rocinante]

On 10/2/2021 at 1:57 PM, SnazzyDaisy said:

 I hope Noah doesn’t like Elliot for some reasons, then case closed. Hey Olivia, stop appearing in OC and ohh, you should reconnect with Brian Cassidy instead.

I was half-hoping Noah would show up in the morning and ask, "Are you my new Daddy?" and have Stabler sprint for the door. 😆

Edited October 4, 2021 by Tachi Rocinante

[catrice2]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Kathy probably assumed that HER HUSBAND must still have feelings for her if Elliot was willing to sleep with her post-split. While no one put a gun to Kathy's head, no one put one to Elliot's either. And considering the length of their marriage/their history, Kathy could have (incorrectly, perhaps) assumed that Elliot wanted their life back, too. The "obligation" bit makes Elliot a complete dick, if that was the intent.

And if Elliot was pining for his partner, it would not explain him kissing yet another woman - his temporary partner, I think Dani Beck was her name - as well. Maybe Elliot the good Catholic boy just wishes he was a Munch or Goren type - ACTUAL single men without the responsibilities that Elliot signed on for.

I don't know, but it certainly is not a good look.

Was Nova's girlfriend pregnant? Also if she is an undercover would the girlfriend have been able to keep the business?

 

I honestly remember it as him being the one who wanted to stay married pregnant or not and she came around after she got pregnant. Either way it  smacks of the old church women who are best friends and as soon as one dies they move in on the grieving husband. 

If Olivia had not been friendly with Kathy this would be easier to understand.  As I have said before there will end up being a letter from Kathy giving her blessing and thanking Olivia for giving her more years with Elliott at this rate.

[WendyCR72]

Attacking fictional characters is fine. Attacking posters is not. EVER. So if you cannot disagree in a civil manner, scroll or use the ignore feature.

If anyone needs help in how to use said feature, PM myself or @txhorns79.

[Nessa]

That letter by Kathy/Elliot had me totally confused.

[WendyCR72]

33 minutes ago, Nessa said:

That letter by Kathy/Elliot had me totally confused.

It was just a means to attract viewers, but it totally made no sense in the current time line.

[milkyaqua]

On 10/4/2021 at 8:09 AM, Tachi Rocinante said:

I was half-hoping Noah would show up in the morning and ask, "Are you my new Daddy?" and have Stabler sprint for the door. 😆

Oh, no!  The only one more annoying that Olivia is Noah.

[CSunshine76]

On 10/1/2021 at 7:27 PM, catrice2 said:

Listen, now that they are bringing my original back I could not be happier. 

 

OMG. You have made my day, my week, my year!! I had not heard this. I’m a whore to L&O…any and all…I will watch it until my last day on earth. Yahoo!