Season 6 Discussion

[Pallas]

The criminal case against Leonard might have outcomes ranging from his being bound over, to probation, to imprisonment. Under the U.K.'s Sexual Offenses Act of 1956, "gross indecency" carried a maximum sentence of two years, a sentence that could be mitigated by evidence of "previous good character" and a pre-trial confession. Even under the prior law, imprisonment was not the norm: in 1951, one in four gross indecency convictions resulted in jail sentences; fines and probation were the more frequent legal result. (I haven't found a citation about how frequently probation, under the 1956 law, included chemical castration. Alan Turing was prosecuted under the 1885 law, and with particular zeal. He and his partner Arnold Murray were tried together; both pleaded guilty, and both were convicted of the same six offenses. Turing received probation conditional upon 12 months' DES "treatment," while Murray's sentence was bound over for 12 months of good behavior.)

The Church of England is another matter. This really is a measure of what the writer wants to say. Will an authority above the Archdeacon -- the Bishop or Archbishop -- intervene? Who and what will the show's CofE choose to protect? 

How the parish and the town will respond is a third question, whether or not Leonard is convicted, and whether or not he is pressured to leave the clergy -- or ultimately chooses to do so, to be true to himself. Can he and Daniel make a home in the show's Grantchester?

Sidenote: in the Sexual Offenses Act of 1956, the charge of "indecent assault upon a woman" carries a maximum sentence of two years; for "indecent assault upon a man," it is ten. This remained true until 1985.

[sugarbaker design]

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

Under the U.K.'s Sexual Offenses Act of 1956, "gross indecency" carried a maximum sentence of two years, a sentence that might be mitigated by evidence of "previous good character" and a pre-trial confession.

Good to know, that's Leonard's situation.  It would be unbearable to watch Leonard do time.

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

The Church of England is another matter.

It sure is.  Leonard can kiss that collar good-bye.

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

Can he and Daniel make a home in the show's Grantchester?

Why would they want to stay in Grantchester?  I want Leonard and Daniel to be happy, I don't see that happening in Grantchester.  I hope they move to Paris and hang out with James Baldwin.

Edited October 18, 2021 by sugarbaker design

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Pallas said:

The criminal case against Leonard might have outcomes ranging from his being bound over, to probation, to imprisonment. Under the U.K.'s Sexual Offenses Act of 1956, "gross indecency" carried a maximum sentence of two years, a sentence that could be mitigated by evidence of "previous good character" and a pre-trial confession. Even under the prior law, imprisonment was not the norm: in 1951, one in four gross indecency convictions resulted in jail sentences; fines and probation were the more frequent legal result. (I haven't found a citation about how frequently probation, under the 1956 law, included chemical castration. Alan Turing was prosecuted under the 1885 law, and with particular zeal. He and his partner Arnold Murray were tried together; both pled guilty, and both were convicted of the same six offenses. Turing received probation conditional upon 12 months' DES "treatment," while Murray's sentence was bound over for 12 months of good behavior.)

 

I wondered if they meant us to be thinking about that given the references to espionage work during the war. Not that it was the same operation, but still.

[dubbel zout]

I wondered if the woman violated the Official Secrets Act by talking about her wartime work, let alone mentioning Operation Mincemeat by name. They aren't that far away from WWII, after all. I doubt much had been declassified at that point.

[Pallas]

It looks as if the parameters of Operation Mincemeat became public in 1953, when the security services commissioned a novel about it from the wartime intelligence agent who ran it: The Man Who Never Was, made into a film in 1956.

[Sarah 103]

There is no way Leonard's storyline ends well. Will's thinking is way ahead of his time. We're in 58 and the law isn't changed until 67.

 Geordie reminded me of an older brother in this episode. "If you had come to me sooner, we could have worked something out before mom and dad found out, but it's too late for that now."

I would have liked to see Daniel coaching Leonard. I think it would have been comedy gold and horrible to watch at the same time. Clearly Daniel has been through questioning before and somehow came out okay.  

It seems Geordie's plan was to do a halfbaked job of the investigation. If the other officer wasn't so eager to score points and advance, it might have worked.  I wonder if Geordie had been through this before (protecting other people for one reason or another). 

Leonard wasn't going to let anyone take the fall or get into any more trouble for what he did. He was willing to own up to it. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Sarah 103

[Gravity Check]

I don't know how Leonard could turn himself in after hearing Mrs. C say she couldn't lose "her boy."

And I was brought to tears by her crying in Will's arms after he did just that.

[Sarah 103]

10 minutes ago, Gravity Check said:

I don't know how Leonard could turn himself in after hearing Mrs. C say she couldn't lose "her boy."

My guess is that Leonard realized the position he had put Will in-either Will would risk his career and reputation for something Leonard did, or Leonard would have to own up to his "mistake" and sacrifice himself for Will.  I think knowing that he had the love and support of Mrs. C gave him strength to do what he felt he had to. 

[magdalene]

11 hours ago, Pallas said:

Sidenote: in the Sexual Offenses Act of 1956, the charge of "indecent assault upon a woman" carries a maximum sentence of two years; for "indecent assault upon a man," it is ten. This remained true until 1985.

It says so much that raping a man got you a longer prison sentence than raping a woman.  Why am I shocked at this - the law has always favored men over women.

[Daff]

12 hours ago, magdalene said:

It says so much that raping a man got you a longer prison sentence than raping a woman.  Why am I shocked at this - the law has always favored men over women.

Well, at that time, it was predominantly men who crafted the laws and if a woman were to be assaulted, the popular opinion among men was that she somehow contributed to it (dress, behavior, etc.). Whereas, if the assault happened to a man, they automatically assumed the guilt should be placed solely on the shoulders of the perpetrator. Disgusting (but yet, these attitudes just refuse to be reformed, even now- case in point, AMLT). 

[12catcrazy]

23 hours ago, Pallas said:

It looks as if the parameters of Operation Mincemeat became public in 1953, when the security services commissioned a novel about it from the wartime intelligence agent who ran it: The Man Who Never Was, made into a film in 1956.

Very good movie!  I keep hoping that they will show it on TCM (they need to have a Stephen Boyd film fest).

[zoey1996]

4 hours ago, Daff said:

Disgusting (but yet, these attitudes just refuse to be reformed, even now- case in point, AMLT). 

What's AMLT? TIA!

[TVForever]

3 minutes ago, zoey1996 said:

What's AMLT? TIA!

I think it's A Million Little Things.

[chitowngirl]

4 minutes ago, zoey1996 said:

What's AMLT? TIA!

A Million Little Things

[Cetacean]

I teared up when Mrs. C broke down.  She talks one way but in her heart she loves Leonard no matter what.  Maybe the world would be a better place if we got to know people before we judged them based on a label.

[zoey1996]

5 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

A Million Little Things

Is that still on? I gave up on it at the end of the first season.

[khyber]

I was walking in town the other day and two young guys (early 20's) were walking ahead of me holding hands. No one cared, no one gave a second look. So different from the atmosphere of the 50's. Even in the 80's I was introduced to two women as sisters who lived together. Everyone knew they weren't related but we just kept our mouths shut.

[HoodlumSheep]

Ngl i kinda giggled @ leonard sitting in the dark, smoking, drinking and listening to jazz. Leonard can do a pretty good Sidney Chambers impression.

Leonard came off almost like a...whiny teenager in the beginning of the episode (i feel bad for saying it like that :/, but the sidney-esque behavior was a little much--my mom kinda giggled at it too), but that heart-to-heart with daniel was good, and i'm glad leonard managed to calm down.

First ep of the season where the main mystery didn't get overahadowed by the leonard plot. It held it's own. Geordie is to be thanked for that. 

That poor secretary. Hope she got paid overtime. 

* I've been meaning to ask: has the journalist lady from last season been completely scrapped? Or did she leave at the end of the previous season and i just don't remember it? I keep waiting for her to pop into the story again.

Edited October 25, 2021 by HoodlumSheep

[dargosmydaddy]

First episode of the season where all the plots and subplots were actually interesting! Yay.

Oh, Leonard... I know things are bad, but please don't turn into Sidney. I'm glad he had some time with Daniel. And we even got a little Dickens!

[ComeWhatMay]

“It’s the teeth.” Heh. Some of us do have a way about us. Especially our true military heroes. 

Ah, Geordie. Not cool. Will grew up. Long in the tooth to still be mucking about Tamara, okay. 

Orson III couldn’t cut it and felt entitled to it. Like a lot of them, that picture perfect family was anything but…. How did Will’s family look to outsiders? 

Yes, that was a great Sidney impression by Leonard. One was enough. Yay for Daniel and Leonard. 

[magdalene]

This was a really good episode and the show was firing on all cylinders in this one.  The case was very interesting for the first time this season and I couldn't have guessed the outcome.

I am glad Leonard and Daniel were able to find comfort in each other and Leonard moping around ala Sidney hopefully won't turn into a thing.

When step sister dearest was hugging Will I was thinking "did she just slip him the napkin ring?"  And sure enough she did.   A party girl and a klepto - girl has got problems.

[SnapHappy]

I actually like Tamara.  She livens the place up, and I think she's got a good heart under that spoiled, party-girl exterior. And I love how she kept calling Geordie "Georgie". 

That last scene with Leonard & Daniel dancing was so sweet and I'm glad we saw Will smiling.  We know he can't publicly support Leonard, against church & legal dictates, but it's nice to see he emotionally supports his friend.    And I'm glad we got more backstory on Daniel, because for me he's been a pretty one-dimensional character up til now.  He truly does care for Leonard.  

[dubbel zout]

It was nice to see Al Weaver get to sink his teeth into things for a change. I loved his Sydney cosplay, lol. And good for Will for telling him not to take out his frustration on Mrs. C.

I wish Tamara weren't quite such a poor-little-rich-girl cliché, but I agree she definitely livens things up.

[Dr.OO7]

I just discovered this show a few weeks ago and I love it. I don't know what it is about British television that's so compelling, but I'm glad for it.

If only the seasons weren't so short. I've come to loathe the British Brevity trope--just as I'm starting to get into the season and enjoy it, it's over, and even worse, I have to wait forever for the next one.

[Sarah 103]

I love bottle episodes (episodes that use only existing sets and minimal guest casts). I also love episodes confined in time and space (the episode happens over a day or a weekend). This episode was right up my alley. 

Leonard learned some really unhealthy coping mechanisms from watching Sidney all of those years. I was glad that Daniel was able to snap him out of it and remind him that others have suffered too and that he isn't alone.  

Will was a bit of jerk and a spoiled brat at age 18, but he isn't now and realized somewhere in his late teens/early twenties that he didn't like who he was becoming and took steps to change that. I think he deserves credit for that. 

Tamara was pure comic relief and we needed that in this episode. I wouldn't mind seeing more of Tamara, Will and Geordie together in small doses. They make quite the comedy team. 

[sugarbaker design]

1 hour ago, Dr.OO7 said:

I've come to loathe the British Brevity trope

Not me, long live the brevity trope!

The Brits follow the golden rule of entertainment - always leave them wanting more.

The Americans follow a different rule - when will this season ever end?!

[Shanna Marie]

One issue I had with this storyline as a former military brat is that unless things changed drastically between the 50s and the 70s, an adult son would not be living with his family on an overseas base. Once he was no longer a dependent, which I think was over 21 or in college, and I think there was a cap on that (my last ID card expired on the day of my college graduation), he'd be able to visit his family, but he wouldn't be living with them overseas on base, and he wouldn't have had access to places on the base where he could have bullied servicemen like that. He might not even have been allowed to live in England if he wasn't a dependent. When we were living overseas, I once lost a teacher overnight because she was a wife of a serviceman stationed there, and when her husband decided he wanted to be with his local girlfriend and kicked his wife out, she had to leave the country immediately, even though as a teacher she was a DOD employee, because she was in the country as a military dependent, and once she was no longer a dependent, she had to go. That son's behavior would have been a career killer for his father, and being a general wouldn't necessarily have covered it up. He wouldn't have been able to get that way because his father wouldn't always have been a general. He'd have come up through the ranks, and the kid would have been well aware that he couldn't get away with acting up. If a kid was a problem on base, the father got called in to talk to the base commander. Bullying got shut down real fast. Officers' kids learned that their father's position didn't give them any leeway, so by the time the father was a general, they hadn't learned those habits. Usually, captains' kids were the worst. They got full of themselves and would try to lord over kids of enlisted men, and then their fathers would get called in for a chat with the principal, and if that didn't work, they'd be having a chat with the base commander. It was considered that if a man couldn't manage his own children, he wasn't suited to command soldiers.

So, while the mystery was intriguing, the moment we learned that the fake officer was a general's adult son, it threw me out of the story.

[SnapHappy]

6 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

I just discovered this show a few weeks ago and I love it. I don't know what it is about British television that's so compelling, but I'm glad for it.

If only the seasons weren't so short. I've come to loathe the British Brevity trope--just as I'm starting to get into the season and enjoy it, it's over, and even worse, I have to wait forever for the next one.

You have to get used to viewing them as Mini-series.  Usually only between 8-12 hours, so unlike the usual 20-something US TV series seasons.  

One reason I really like the short Brit seasons, is that when a new season comes out, I can re-watch the previous one the weekend before to make sure I'm all caught up!

[howiveaddict]

11 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

I just discovered this show a few weeks ago and I love it. I don't know what it is about British television that's so compelling, but I'm glad for it.

If only the seasons weren't so short. I've come to loathe the British Brevity trope--just as I'm starting to get into the season and enjoy it, it's over, and even worse, I have to wait forever for the next one.

Once the Brit Shows reel you in, there is no going back. They are so superior to US shows.

[JudyObscure]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:23 PM, Shanna Marie said:

I once lost a teacher overnight because she was a wife of a serviceman stationed there, and when her husband decided he wanted to be with his local girlfriend and kicked his wife out, she had to leave the country immediately,

It was still that way in the 1990's when my husband and I were in England, stationed at Upper Heyford  base with the USAF.  While we were there the English women threw themselves at my husband, in just the same outrageously forward manner as Tamara did to Geordie, and right in front of me. 

It was enough to worry me into finding out my options, so I learned that the free legal department was only for the active duty military and not their dependents.  I would have had to take the next flight back to the U. S. paying for my own ticket, with only enough of my possessions as would fit in the regular airline luggage restrictions. The Air Force was always threatening to send the dependents "home" for one reason or another without admitting that most of us had no home or job left in the states.  Needless to say I don't find Tamara funny or likeable at all.

[ComeWhatMay]

“What the Dickens?!” Mrs. C., you disappointed me, but you came to your senses.

The “questioning” of Leonard made my blood boil. Horrific. 

Will made me tear up testifying. And, Leonard and Will got me at the end with that sermon. 

Six months in prison is an outrage. The Bishop is gross. 

Cathy is the absolute best. Geordie won the ultimate lottery and almost lost it all like a fool. He got lucky again when he got another go. 

[Cetacean]

@ComeWhatMay, I echo every single sentiment. 

That poor, dear old man.  He broke my heart sitting with his wife.  I hope he never finds out that witch got away.

[mjc570]

That was pretty bad, but not unexpected for Leonard - I really really hope they don't show him having a bad time in prison, but  . . . 

Speaking of Leonard, I'm so glad he and Mrs. C made their peace.  I understand how hard it was for her, not just the gay issue but the class one as well.  Quite a contrast to Cathy, a younger, confident woman.  

Not quite sure about the robbery case - is the pursuit of Lily a continuing story line?  Shaun Dooley is a recognizable (to me) actor, I was surprised to see in a one-off episode.  

[sagittarius sue]

1 hour ago, mjc570 said:

Shaun Dooley is a recognizable (to me) actor, I was surprised to see in a one-off episode.  

I did a check on his IMDB page and Dooley's going to be on the next three episodes.  I enjoy his performances as he's played such different characters.  Particularly memorable was as a brutal wife beater in Foyle's War.

[Gravity Check]

I'm very, very sad after watching that episode.

And I'm really upset that Leonard didn't think to respond to the horrible questioning by telling the story of Jesus stopping the stoning of the adulteress, and telling her to go sin no more after shaming and sending away those who judged her for her sin.

Of course, the prosecutor was simply saying things out loud that had been dancing around Leonard's head for years. I cried.

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, Gravity Check said:

And I'm really upset that Leonard didn't think to respond to the horrible questioning by telling the story of Jesus stopping the stoning of the adulteress, and telling her to go sin no more after shaming and sending away those who judged her for her sin.

The saddest thing about Leonard's story for me is that I think he believes he should be punished. Not in a martyr way, but as someone who has broken the law and now has to face the consequences. But he's also freed himself from his own shame.

It cracked me up when Cathy asked Geordie if Will had again solved the case, and Geordie muttered, "Yes." Hee. 

I liked having a female antagonist for a change, and a smart one at that. If this case continues, I hope the librarian is eventually caught, but she wasn't wrong when she told Geordie that he puts women in a box. And I also loved when Miss Scott told Geordie that if a woman was the mastermind of the crime, the money would be in a very clever place. Ha!

[sugarbaker design]

After season 5 of Grantchester, where a gay couple could date with impunity in a small village in England in the late 50's, season 6 is an abrupt change to realism!  The writers are really going there with Leonard's situation.  There are four more episodes left, I hope we get to see Leonard released from jail.

58 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I hope the librarian is eventually caught, but she wasn't wrong when she told Geordie that he puts women in a box.

I'll go even further and hope Miss Bradly is an eventual corpse.

[DonnaMae]

When Leonard is released from jail, will he be able to return to his position in the church?

[dubbel zout]

1 minute ago, DonnaMae said:

When Leonard is released from jail, will he be able to return to his position in the church?

No; the bishop fired him.

[Cetacean]

10 hours ago, Gravity Check said:

Of course, the prosecutor was simply saying things out loud that had been dancing around Leonard's head for years.

Those same things are said to this day.  Only 20 of the 50 states have even outlawed conversion therapy.  Listen to ministers of conservative churches of any denomination and you will hear the same rhetoric.

[DonnaMae]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

No; the bishop fired him.

So then he'll no longer be in the series?

[sugarbaker design]

3 minutes ago, DonnaMae said:

So then he'll no longer be in the series?

We'll soon find out.

Leonard has already said in last night's episode that he and his boyfriend are going to move where nobody knows them.

[Sarah 103]

14 hours ago, ComeWhatMay said:

The “questioning” of Leonard made my blood boil. Horrific. 

I am amazed Will could keep it together. When he after the lawyer in the hallway, I'm surprised he didn't say something like "How dare you speak for God and the Church?" 

3 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

There are four more episodes left, I hope we get to see Leonard released from jail.

There are three ways for Leonard's story to go :

1. Leonard is murdered in prison

2. Leonard sommits suicide in prison

3. Leonard makes it through his sentence and the season ends with Leonard and Daniel moving elsewhere and the next season starts with a postcard/letter saying that they have settled somehwhere and are living happily ever after. 

[sugarbaker design]

2 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

3. Leonard makes it through his sentence and the season ends with Leonard and Daniel moving elsewhere and the next season starts with a postcard/letter saying that they have settled somehwhere and are living happily ever after. 

Number 3 is the only one that would make sense in the story, and more importantly, a resolution that viewers (I'm speaking for myself) could live with.  I can picture Leonard and his beau (sorry, I can't remember his name) sitting at a cafe in Paris writing postcards.

Edited November 1, 2021 by sugarbaker design

[Sarah 103]

8 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Number 3 is the only one that would make sense in the story, and more importantly, a resolution that viewers (I'm speaking for myself) could live with.  I can picture Leonard and his beau (sorry, I can't remember his name) sitting at a cafe in Paris writing postcards.

If we're lucky, maybe this season will end with Leonard picking up his things and riding off into the sunset with Daniel. 

Geordie is lucky no one dares mess with him. Someone else would have to deal with teasing from coworkers about being unable to control thier wife, with Cathy being so vocal in her support of Leonard. 

 

[12catcrazy]

30 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

If we're lucky, maybe this season will end with Leonard picking up his things and riding off into the sunset with Daniel. 

Geordie is lucky no one dares mess with him. Someone else would have to deal with teasing from coworkers about being unable to control thier wife, with Cathy being so vocal in her support of Leonard. 

 

I loved how Cathy said that she had two "Aunties" growing up, and one was her REAL Auntie and the other. I forget the exact words, but the other was with the real Aunt.  Which I guess is implying that her Aunt had a female partner and it was just kind of accepted.                                     

It also seems that they've taken the Leonard storyline about as far as they can (and lets all hope that option 3 above is how it goes).  From the previews, Leonard's replacement is Black , so that will open up the storyline to showcase all of the Racial (and racist) viewpoints of Grantchester's version of 1950s England.  

[Cetacean]

2 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

Which I guess is implying that her Aunt had a female partner and it was just kind of accepted

That is how I took it.  I wonder why the males were so blatantly persecuted while females were not.

[dubbel zout]

12 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

Which I guess is implying that her Aunt had a female partner and it was just kind of accepted.                                     

Queen Victoria refused to believe that there was such a thing as lesbianism, and it's never technically been illegal in the UK.

[Sarah 103]

19 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

That is how I took it.  I wonder why the males were so blatantly persecuted while females were not.

My understanding was that it was easier for women to hide in plain sight. Because women earned less than men, it made sense that a woman might need a roomate to help make ends meet.  An unmarried man and woman living together would have been shocking and nearly unthinkable, but two women living together would have not aroused any suspicion.

Women also had to wait for a man to ask her to marry him. So you could have "Oh, the poor thing. She was never able to find a man willing to marry her." 

[12catcrazy]

29 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

That is how I took it.  I wonder why the males were so blatantly persecuted while females were not.

Probably for many reasons.  Don't the people in charge usually bring up stuff in the Bible against it?  Sodom and Gomorrah among other things?  Is there anything in the Bible about women in that regard?   Also, I think it reflects on men being insecure about their masculinity.  Back in the 70s I had a male friend get very puffed up about how gay men (he used a word I won't repeat here) "were an affront to [his] masculinity" and he was so highly offended by the sight of them.  When my other friend and I asked him why, he couldn't tell us any kind of logical reason, just that they offended his maleness.    I also think that many men enjoy the thought of two women being sexual with each other so no reason to put them in jail.   And also, back in the day, women were thought to be so non-sexual that two female friends just couldn't "do that".  

And edited to add - everything that Sarah 103 said as well.   

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by 12catcrazy