S03.E06: Lady Vic

[Sakura12]

Quote

Dick and Barbara work to unmask the latest killer unleashed by Crane. When Kory and Gar being her to Wayne Manor, Blackfire forms unexpected connection with a Titan.

[Sakura12]

So they can say Batgirl and Oracle but they can't use them. So they had to show us Dick and Barbara being criminals instead of crime fighters. Then have Barbara be a hypocrite saying she doesn't like people that break the law or go off script and she does both of those. 

I hope Blackfire has a point and is not just there to give Kory grief. I thought she was going to be the villian. And instead we get hippie Scarecrow who thinks he's  the Joker and Red Hood who turned bad because he wasn't getting enough attention. 

 

[Nellise]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

So they can say Batgirl and Oracle but they can't use them. So they had to show us Dick and Barbara being criminals instead of crime fighters. Then have Barbara be a hypocrite saying she doesn't like people that break the law or go off script and she does both of those.

I was so confused by the Barbara stuff. So 6 years ago she wasn't even a cop and now she's commissioner? Or she was a cop and just stole stuff for fun on the side?

Also, I know it's canon that Barbara uses a wheelchair, but this show has no problem deviating from canon so it could have been interesting to let the actress use her artificial leg in the present day scenes. But I guess they haven't said what her injuries fully were, have they?

I don't understand the Titans desire to keep protecting and saving murderers. At this point they're complicit in a bunch of the crimes shown in the show.

[Primal Slayer]

Yeah....the Barbara stuff made no sense. They made her into a red headed Selina knock off who steals just because she's bored and wants to keep her father on his toes? That's the total opposite of who Barbara Gordon is. 

This show is fairly terrible of showing how Alien Kori is so it was fairly refreshing to see Blackfire bring some Tamaronian to the house even if royalty is pretty much the same no matter what planet you are on lol. 

[tennisgurl]

I am disappointed in this Barbara, its like she had to take over as the shows chief hypocrite now that Dawn is gone. So she hates breaking the law...that thing she did three seconds ago? And used to do all the time apparently? I guess its only bad when other people do it? 

Why are they trying to turn the Scarecrow into the Joker? We already have the damn Joker we don't need another one. Its not bad enough that the Joker is painfully overused in comics and adaptations, but now DC keeps trying to turn other villains into Joker clones even when it makes no sense. 

At least Conner, who has been a real highlight this season when he gets stuff to do, got some nice bits. Its a relief to get a break from Batfam angst. 

[Sakura12]

Wasn't Dick in San Francisco 6 years ago with the Titans? Isn't that when Jericho and Aqualad died. How was he also pulling off heists with Barbara in Gotham? 

I'd rather spend time with the other Titans, they are far more interesting then the Batfamily drama. When are we going to Themyscira to check in on Rachel and Donna? 

They need a new showrunner, one that actually cares to tell stories about the Titans. I like the idea of older Titans but we barely know them because all this showrunner cares about is the Batfam. 

[Affogato]

6 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Yeah....the Barbara stuff made no sense. They made her into a red headed Selina knock off who steals just because she's bored and wants to keep her father on his toes? That's the total opposite of who Barbara Gordon is. 

This show is fairly terrible of showing how Alien Kori is so it was fairly refreshing to see Blackfire bring some Tamaronian to the house even if royalty is pretty much the same no matter what planet you are on lol. 

I wonder if we are going to find out Barbara had something to do with her father’s death and it has made her more rigid. 

honestly I don’t find blackfire particularly alien. She sure is unpleasant, though. 

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Wasn't Dick in San Francisco 6 years ago with the Titans? Isn't that when Jericho and Aqualad died. How was he also pulling off heists with Barbara in Gotham? 

I'd rather spend time with the other Titans, they are far more interesting then the Batfamily drama. When are we going to Themyscira to check in on Rachel and Donna? 

They need a new showrunner, one that actually cares to tell stories about the Titans. I like the idea of older Titans but we barely know them because all this showrunner cares about is the Batfam. 

I was just thinking about the timeline and yeah it makes zero sense.

6 years ago Barbara isnt Batgirl yet but Catwoman jr. and already knows that Dick is Robin.

She becomes Batgirl say...5 years ago? and is Batgirl through the very beginning of Jason Todd as Robin years which happened in S1.

Joker must attack her in s2 or in the middle of Season 1? She becomes Oracle, say S2? Gordon is killed by Freeze and she gives up Oracle and becomes Commissioner all in that very very VERY short timespan?

[Affogato]

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 

Why are they trying to turn the Scarecrow into the Joker? We already have the damn Joker we don't need another one. Its not bad enough that the Joker is painfully overused in comics and adaptations, but now DC keeps trying to turn other villains into Joker clones even when it makes no sense. 

 

Back when I read the Titans a long time ago i still found the batfamily parts more interesting so my reaction to the show is it seems like the Titans to me. Maybe old old Titans, to be fair. 
 

sure the Joker used drugs but other than that I don’t see much Joker in this scarecrow. He really is a lot calmer and more thoughtful, for one thing. Not the face of his operation either. 

13 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I was just thinking about the timeline and yeah it makes zero sense.

6 years ago Barbara isnt Batgirl yet but Catwoman jr. and already knows that Dick is Robin.

She becomes Batgirl say...5 years ago? and is Batgirl through the very beginning of Jason Todd as Robin years which happened in S1.

Joker must attack her in s2 or in the middle of Season 1? She becomes Oracle, say S2? Gordon is killed by Freeze and she gives up Oracle and becomes Commissioner all in that very very VERY short timespan?

Yes the storyline tracks but the timing is odd.  What makes sense?

Okay, what I'm intuitively assuming is that Dick and Barbara are mid thirties, making Bruce pushing 70, which makes the choice of actors sensible.

Dick starts to Robin in his late teens, Goes to college and continues to Robin in Gotham. At some point Barbara joins up. so are they both cops in their twenties? It would make sense, and they need time to move up the ranks, barbara anyway. Maybe Dick is just being a playboy at this part.  But still Batgirl and Robin. Dick starts the Titans, but still is in contact with Batman. When the Titans go bad he starts work with the Bludhaven PD, becomes a detective. When Barbara is injured he quits the robin job. Without a partner Bruce activated Jason Todd and some time later the show starts. 

Or something. But I don't think all of this is happening in six years.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Affogato

[blackwing]

The whole "Barbara was a cat burglar" bit didn't make any sense.  And if she wasn't Batgirl at the time six years ago, how is it that she knew Bruce and Dick's civilian identities?  In this universe, did Gordon know who Batman and Robin were?  I thought in comics and movie continuity, he didn't know who they were... hence his use of the Batsignal or the Batphone instead of just picking up the phone and calling Bruce's direct number.

I just don't understand the motivation behind Barbara and Dick stealing all the stuff, and then Dick not wanting to give it back.  He was Robin, engaged in the prevention of crime, so what gives?  I find myself not really caring.  I'm more interested in seeing if Gar's powers are going to evolve.  And nobody mentions Rachel or Rose or Donna anymore.  Wouldn't Gar be Facetiming or calling her all the time?

I liked the Blackfire storyline, it seems she is the only one in her family with no powers.  I like the interaction with Connor, he is so funny.  She asks him to service her and he says he would be happy to, and then Gar comments that "that's not really what she meant".  Connor is such a child sometimes even though he has the intellect of Lex.

 

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Wouldn't Gar be Facetiming or calling her all the time?

I'm going to guess that they don't have phones on Themyscira. 

Blackfire has powers, when they captured her, and they somehow found a way to dampen them. I think she just doesn't have fire powers. Also why is Kory calling her Blackfire, isn't that the Earth translation of her name? You'd think she'd call her by her given name over her translated name. She only did that once when she found her in the cell. It's not like the Titans know any of that. Since they mostly only talk about the Batfam drama. 

[Hanahope]

So far, this season has been awful.  Stupid plots, stupid characters, no explanation for why characters do their stupid stuff.  And seriously, miss Rachel.

[millennium]

On 9/2/2021 at 7:31 PM, Sakura12 said:

I'd rather spend time with the other Titans, they are far more interesting then the Batfamily drama. When are we going to Themyscira to check in on Rachel and Donna? 

They need a new showrunner, one that actually cares to tell stories about the Titans. I like the idea of older Titans but we barely know them because all this showrunner cares about is the Batfam. 

I agree that the show seems skewed towards the residents of Wayne Manor.  I like it personally but I understand the frustration.   Part of the problem is, how do other characters compete with the personalities and storylines coming out of Gotham?   How does a character like Gar match the gravitas of NIghtwing, especially as played by Brenton Thwaites? (I have had a lifelong disdain for Robin/NIghtwing until this series).  Or the assholery of Jason Todd?   Conner shows promise for interesting storylines, and the actor is likeable, but, as in Nightwing's case, perhaps he has a leg up on other characters because he comes with built-in ties to one of DC's most famous properties.  Ditto for Donna Troy (whom I liked a lot).   Starfire bores me; Blackfire is far more interesting (another problem for me is the name Kory Ander -- it's so painfully contrived that it jolts me out of the story whenever somebody says it).   As for Hawk/Dove, couldn't stand them, so ...

My biggest complaint is that the licensing shackles placed on the writers is maddening.

Edited September 5, 2021 by millennium

[blackwing]

On 9/5/2021 at 1:55 PM, millennium said:

I agree that the show seems skewed towards the residents of Wayne Manor.  I like it personally but I understand the frustration.   Part of the problem is, how do other characters compete with the personalities and storylines coming out of Gotham?   How does a character like Gar match the gravitas of NIghtwing, especially as played by Brenton Thwaites? (I have had a lifelong disdain for Robin/NIghtwing until this series).  Or the assholery of Jason Todd?   Conner shows promise for interesting storylines, and the actor is likeable, but, as in Nightwing's case, perhaps he has a leg up on other characters because he comes with built-in ties to one of DC's most famous properties.  Ditto for Donna Troy (whom I liked a lot).   Starfire bores me; Blackfire is far more interesting (another problem for me is the name Kory Ander -- it's so painfully contrived that it jolts me out of the story whenever somebody says it).   As for Hawk/Dove, couldn't stand them, so ...

My biggest complaint is that the licensing shackles placed on the writers is maddening.

I agree that one of my issues with this season is about balance... too much Batman-centric.  The villains this season are Batman-focused.  Barbara Gordon has seemingly become the lead actress on the team, and she's not even part of the team.  The Starfire/Blackfire B plot is an afterthought.  Rachel is absent (why not have had an episode featuring what she has been doing inserted as episode 3, rather than having her be gone for the first half of the season?  We had an entire episode focused 95% on Jason, so why not?)  Gar is a sidekick / comic relief.  But my biggest issue is with Conner, he is woefully underused.  He's Superboy!  He's more powerful than all of the rest of them combined.  They're looking for Scarecrow and Red Hood?  The next time they are sighted, why doesn't he just blaze on over there and pluck them out of the fight and bind them up in steel?

I know that Superboy was on the Teen Titans team in the comics and cartoon, but I thought that team faced significantly greater and stronger threats than Red Hood, who is pretty much a guy with a gun and fighting skills.  Conner should be easily able to crush him.

[sugarbaker design]

So no mention of Tim Drake surviving the shooter's attack in the scene set in the restaurant in the final moments of the episode.

[Affogato]

8 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

So no mention of Tim Drake surviving the shooter's attack in the scene set in the restaurant in the final moments of the episode.

I wonder if he knows Molly. 

[phoenics]

On 9/5/2021 at 2:55 PM, millennium said:

Part of the problem is, how do other characters compete with the personalities and storylines coming out of Gotham?   How does a character like Gar match the gravitas of NIghtwing, especially as played by Brenton Thwaites? (I have had a lifelong disdain for Robin/NIghtwing until this series).  Or the assholery of Jason Todd?  

Easy - you write for them and take care of them.  Especially on a show that is supposed to be about THEM, not the damn batfamily.  It's pretty clear these showrunners and writers think no characters are as good as batfamily characters, but they're wrong and they're also showing why DC is headed into the toilet with that mentality.  The Avengers were no where near as popular in the general public as the X-Men characters (and def not more known than the Justice League characters) until Marvel decided to truly focus on them.  They gave them amazing stories centered on THEM and didn't fall back on crutches like DC constantly does with Batman.  Sadly the success of Arrow (basically a batman ripoff) just gave these producers more incentive and license to do this again and again.  That's pathetic and will eventually destroy DC properties because they'll just run Batman into the ground.  Hell, I'm sick of him and his batfam and I love Bats.

If this show would actually write for the Titans, then BB could easily compete with Jason or NIghtwing or Batman.  Because the show would write an arc to make us care.  That's what good writers do.

I HATE the batfamily drama and hope this is the last season dominated by it.  Give me TITANS.  Damn.

[millennium]

On 9/16/2021 at 9:44 PM, phoenics said:

Sadly the success of Arrow (basically a batman ripoff) just gave these producers more incentive and license to do this again and again.  That's pathetic and will eventually destroy DC properties because they'll just run Batman into the ground.  Hell, I'm sick of him and his batfam and I love Bats.

I'm shocked -- shocked, I say -- to hear you accuse Arrow of being a Batman ripoff.   Just because Arrow shamelessly hijacked Bat-villains like Ras Al Ghul and literally reproduced a live-action version of one of Neal Adams' most iconic Batman covers doesn't mean it was intentional!

Seriously though I understand and appreciate your point of view.  I'm mostly tired of Bat-everything myself.  Never had any use for Gotham, zero interest in Batwoman, got away from Batman comics altogether because here on Earth-Millennium there has never been a Damian Wayne or replacement Robins.  There's no Flashpoint, no New 52, no Rebirth, and no fucking Harley Quinn.

I get that you're not liking the show's current state of affairs.  That's how I felt in the Raven-centric Season 1.  In Season 2 I loathed every moment of the Hawk and Dove storyline but kept tuning in to see where the Dick Grayson/Donna Troy stories would go.   I'm still scratching my head over why they killed Donna.

I've been viewing Titans as an Elseworlds story about Dick Grayson and enjoying it in that context, because Dick is old school and so am I.  Batgirl has always fascinated me (blame Yvonne Craig), so that's okay too.  And I know most everyone hates Iain Glenn as Bruce Wayne, but (call me crazy) I see him as a plausible older and more jaded version of Adam West's Batman (Glenn doing the Batusi certainly did nothing to dispel that notion).

But sure, I would welcome good stories about other show characters.  Blackfire is like a breath of fresh air.  Maybe she'll stir things up.

Edited September 18, 2021 by millennium

[Quark]

First Dove is responsible for her partner's death. Now Lady Vic is responsible for her partner's death.

I've never seen a show so obsessed with angst. And Bats.

I need more Gar, Superboy and Starfire.