Guilt (2020) - General Discussion

[chitowngirl]

The story starts with a bang when two estranged brothers are thrown together by a deadly accident. In attempting to cover up their involvement, the siblings make a series of dreadfully bad decisions, which lead them into a nightmarish situation where they can trust no one, including each other. Yet their desperate plight is endlessly entertaining to watch: Guilt is a high wire balancing act between pitch-black comedy and a suburban noir thriller. 

“I wanted to write a drama where the characters are allowed to be funny,” series executive producer and writer Neil Forsyth said. “The whole point of drama is putting characters under extreme conditions. One of the ways that human beings react to extreme conditions is [with] humor … it should always be woven into drama and I think that’s what all the best dramas have done, from The Sopranos to Breaking Bad to The West Wing.”

Guilt won the 2020 Scottish British Academy of Film and Television Arts Scottish branch (BAFTA) Award for Best Drama.

Masterpiece airs on PBS starting Sunday, September 5th.

[proserpina65]

I'm really looking forward to this one.  I adore Jamie Sives, and Mark Bonnar has yet to be anything less than terrific in anything I've seen him in.

[zoey1996]

Watched this last night. "Oh, what a tangled web we weave..."

Rather delicious, watching this unfold, with deception and lies at every turn.

[JudyObscure]

Hilarious.  Things spiraling out of control, whether it's a drama like, "a Simple Plan, or a comedy/drama like "Fargo"  is about my favorite thing. Yeah!

[sempervivum]

Is it a man thing, or would it really not occur to Jake that people as freckled as the 'darling niece' don't age into completely unfreckled skin? He does seem clueless, but surely he knows that she'd have to be wearing industrial-strength concealer to look clear skinned? I guess I can buy that he wouldn't be able to tell that her hair is genuinely stick-straight and not dyed, but the freckles?

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Things spiraling out of control, whether it's a drama like, "a Simple Plan, or a comedy/drama like "Fargo"

I actually was thinking 'It's like 'Noises Off', but with a dead body'. 

 

[iMonrey]

Intriguing premise so far. Angie is definitely not the real niece, and Jake knows it. Can't figure out what's going on between Angie (or whatever her real name is) and Sheila the neighbor lady. I have a sneaking suspicion that this was all set up by Max somehow, though. 

[proserpina65]

On 9/7/2021 at 12:00 PM, iMonrey said:

I have a sneaking suspicion that this was all set up by Max somehow, though. 

That wouldn't entirely surprise me, since Max is obviously willing to sell Jake up the river.

[zoey1996]

Like peeling an onion - you think you have the answers, but no, there's still more! Certainly took a darker turn than I expected.

Liked that Claire finally kicked Max out, and now he has somewhere to go - jail/prison! Dislike that Sheila, the neighbor who hired Angie, is evidently going free. Will that change with the autopsy results? Will the autopsy give the real niece answers? One can hope so. 

[SusieQ]

Fun show. Glad Max got what he deserved, but Shelia needs to be punished, too. Let's hope the autopsy shows the excess drugs in Walt's body.

One loose thread for me -- what happened to Tina? I can't believe Roy just let her go after she was caught stealing the money. I know she texted Claire "sorry". I guess Roy felt he could always catch up with her and finish her off but he didn't seem the type who was so forgiving.

[sempervivum]

This kind of fizzled out for me- maybe would have been more effective watching it as 4 separate episodes, but our PBS station showed the first 2 last week, and the last 2 last night. The first 2 had left me expecting something a bit lighter and more twisty, but then it pretty much went to a predictable denouement. Also, I thought Jake was a feckless ass, and was disappointed that he got a more or less happy ending.

Good acting all around, though.

[Driad]

2 hours ago, SusieQ said:

One loose thread for me -- what happened to Tina? I can't believe Roy just let her go after she was caught stealing the money. I know she texted Claire "sorry". I guess Roy felt he could always catch up with her and finish her off but he didn't seem the type who was so forgiving.

I wondered if Roy did finish Tina off, and used her phone to text Claire so Claire wouldn't go looking for Tina.

This series was entertaining, although the humor was mostly "What will go wrong next?" and "These characters are twistier than a barrel of fishhooks."

[SusieQ]

50 minutes ago, Driad said:

I wondered if Roy did finish Tina off, and used her phone to text Claire so Claire wouldn't go looking for Tina.

This series was entertaining, although the humor was mostly "What will go wrong next?" and "These characters are twistier than a barrel of fishhooks."

That's probably it. Pretty cold. But then again Roy was not your warm and fuzzy gangster😊😊

[Crashcourse]

I just assumed that Tina was dead.

[iMonrey]

I'm not sure how I feel about that ending. It became far less a mystery and more of a caper in the final two chapters. And it more or less boiled down to everyone ganging up on Max to make sure he was punished. Which is fine, in and of itself, but I think what Sheila did was even worse, and certainly the big gangster thing was far worse too and they were able to walk away scot-free. I mean, it was horrible that Max got his brother involved in all of this but he wasn't actively killing people and beating people up like the other two were. He's hardly the worse villain in the story.

On the other hand it was mercifully short. I think I would have been far more disappointed with it to have sat thru six or eight hours of it and have it end this way.

[Driad]

I'm glad I don't know any of those people.  I *hope* I don't know any of those people.

[momo]

On 9/13/2021 at 8:24 AM, SusieQ said:

Fun show. Glad Max got what he deserved, but Shelia needs to be punished, too. Let's hope the autopsy shows the excess drugs in Walt's body.

One loose thread for me -- what happened to Tina? I can't believe Roy just let her go after she was caught stealing the money. I know she texted Claire "sorry". I guess Roy felt he could always catch up with her and finish her off but he didn't seem the type who was so forgiving.

I thought that maybe they killed her and texted Claire from Tina's phone.

[Dowel Jones]

On 9/14/2021 at 9:09 AM, iMonrey said:

and certainly the big gangster thing was far worse too and they were able to walk away scot-free.

I don't know about that, but it's not in the plot for this go round.  Max can give the police all kinds of info on Roy's schemes and connections, and they can follow up on that.  Obviously that would require the UK equivalent of Witness Protection.

ETA:  And that bent cop is toast.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Dowel Jones

[bunnyface]

I started this and thought it was interesting, then my PBS station skipped from episode 1 to 4, so I missed the entire middle and the next bit I saw made no sense.  So it's worth trying to catch if they ever rerun it?

 

[Dowel Jones]

From episode 4 and the existing comments you probably already know too much to make it a surprise, but I think it would be worth it to watch the spiral into desperation.  Eps 1 and 2 seemed to me to be tedious, but they are essential.  You almost need a scorecard to keep track of everyone.

[HoodlumSheep]

We just finished watching this!

Excellent acting. Really enjoyed this one. Super happy to hear there's a second season in the works. If there wasn't I don't think i'd be satisfied with how it ended. I don't want this story to end until sheila gets some sort of comeuppance. Technically she's the root cause of this whole shebang, so to have her get away with everything would be mildly infuriating. 

On 9/13/2021 at 11:32 AM, sempervivum said:

This kind of fizzled out for me- maybe would have been more effective watching it as 4 separate episodes, but our PBS station showed the first 2 last week, and the last 2 last night.

We watched it over 4 seperate (non-consecutive) days and i think it really helped add to the show imo. Gave us a lil time to theorize and discuss, which was pretty fun. Helped build the anticipation, even though we still watched the series within the span of a week and a half. :P

Not sure i would have enjoyed it as much watching it in just two blocks of programming though.

It'll be interesting to see how things end up with max. They all ganged up to pin everything on him but he just knows so much and was so involved with everything...I kinda hope he turns around and manages to one-up them somehow haha.

*Also, i'm surprised there was so little...death? Walter (if you count him) and probably tina. That's it. We were kind of expecting one or two more to kick the bucket at some point so that kept us on our toes a bit. 

Edited September 19, 2021 by HoodlumSheep

[proserpina65]

On 9/13/2021 at 11:24 AM, SusieQ said:

Fun show. Glad Max got what he deserved, but Shelia needs to be punished, too. Let's hope the autopsy shows the excess drugs in Walt's body.

One loose thread for me -- what happened to Tina? I can't believe Roy just let her go after she was caught stealing the money. I know she texted Claire "sorry". I guess Roy felt he could always catch up with her and finish her off but he didn't seem the type who was so forgiving.

I assumed that Roy had killed her and then sent that text himself.

On 9/14/2021 at 12:09 PM, iMonrey said:

Which is fine, in and of itself, but I think what Sheila did was even worse, and certainly the big gangster thing was far worse too and they were able to walk away scot-free.

I don't think Sheila would be getting off scot free after the autopsy results are in.  Probably she'd get less punishment than she deserves for "helping" the police, but my take was that there'd be some repercussions for her.  Possibly the real niece could sue her or something.

On 9/18/2021 at 9:22 PM, HoodlumSheep said:

They all ganged up to pin everything on him but he just knows so much and was so involved with everything...I kinda hope he turns around and manages to one-up them somehow haha.

I rather liked the ending for Max.  He thought he was the smartest person in the room and was sure that he was steps ahead of everyone else.  Instead, he was at least a couple of steps behind at pretty much every single turn, and I really enjoyed seeing him get his comeuppance.  I especially liked Jake being the one with the upper hand at the end; it was obvious that Max treated him pretty much like a barely intelligent buffoon for most of their adult lives.  Which, maybe he was, but Max really took advantage of Jake's naivete and cluelessness.

Edited September 20, 2021 by proserpina65

[Rickster]

Read an article in The Guardian about Mark Bonnar. Season 2 of Guilt is starting in the UK in two weeks. The article hints at a possibility of a season 3, too.

[Driad]

Season 2 will start on PBS on August 28.  Preview.

[chitowngirl]

Season 2 starts tonight! There are 2 episodes tonight. Linked PBS article reminds us where we left off and where we’re going in season 2.

[chitowngirl]

Season 2 starts tonight! There are 2 episodes tonight. Linked PBS article reminds us where we left off and where we’re going in season 2.

Were we supposed to know the lady dogwalker Max was talking to on the bench in the park in episode one? Haven’t watched episode 2 yet.

[JudyObscure]

Even thoo ayd jest watched two hours of Jeckson Brooodie on Tubi's  "Ceese Histories,"  aye couldnye get me head aroond the aykcent.

[Rickster]

I really needed a recap of last season. Have only watched episode 1 and had trouble remembering which characters were carried over. I think I read there are only 4 episodes, so next week might be it?

[sempervivum]

I'm usually pretty good with UK accents of various regions, but I agree with JudyObscure that the Scots dialect on this one has me defeated. I'm getting the general idea of all the components of the mystery coming together, but the details being revealed/hinted at in the dialogue are lost to me. Also, there are supposed to be 'wit' and 'jokes' (according to the promo material), but I'm only getting the visual stuff- like that ridiculous office.

[Rickster]

3 hours ago, sempervivum said:

I'm usually pretty good with UK accents of various regions, but I agree with JudyObscure that the Scots dialect on this one has me defeated. I'm getting the general idea of all the components of the mystery coming together, but the details being revealed/hinted at in the dialogue are lost to me. Also, there are supposed to be 'wit' and 'jokes' (according to the promo material), but I'm only getting the visual stuff- like that ridiculous office.

I always watch British programs with subtitles turned on. It helps a lot on programs like this one.

Interesting that PBS must have language standards, since there were several points where the audio disappeared and the subtitles said “inaudible”, but certain words were clearly being bleeped out.

[Suzysite]

My closed captions were just gibberish. It's like they just shrugged their shoulders and said yeah, we don't know either. 

I'm kind of lost in the story line.  I know there were shootings and dirty money and bad guys and Kenny, but the pastor?  Who dat?  Land development?  No clue.  Older lady cop investigator?  Nope.

[proserpina65]

I watched the first two episodes, and while it's interesting, it didn't grab me the way the start of season one did.  It was missing the lighter tone of season one's beginning.  Plus, I really think it needs Jamie Sives, because the best thing about the first season was the interaction between Max and Jake.  But I'll keep watching because it's still better than the vast majority of stuff on my tv.

I was mostly okay with the accents, but there were moments where I wished I had the closed captioning on.  And yeah, PBS does bleep out some words.  Pretty sure someone said "fuck" at least once.

[chitowngirl]

Recap of episode 3 She actually has recaps of episodes 1 & 2 also, but I just discovered her. 

[Driad]

Thank you, chitowngirl.  Here are the recaps of episodes 1-3.  Useful for those of us who are confused.

[proserpina65]

4 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Recap of episode 3 She actually has recaps of episodes 1 & 2 also, but I just discovered her. 

Thanks for that.  It explained a few things I didn't quite understand when watching.

[Dowel Jones]

Thank you also from me.  I'm having enough trouble just keeping the characters separated.

[MagicEyes]

On 9/5/2022 at 4:32 PM, Dowel Jones said:

Thank you also from me.  I'm having enough trouble just keeping the characters separated.

I need a diagram of who’s who and how they’re all connected.

[Driad]

Have you ever been reading a book that has a very confusing scene involving the main character, and later someone else asks what happened?  Feeling relieved, you turn the page, only to have the main character say "So I told him" and then the plot goes on. Arrgh. That's how I feel about this series.

[Suzysite]

Yes, this season was a riddle of half explained story lines wrapped in thick accents.  

[Crashcourse]

I recently started watching this, but I couldn't follow the dialogue because of the accents. 

[khyber]

On 9/12/2022 at 1:14 PM, Crashcourse said:

I recently started watching this, but I couldn't follow the dialogue because of the accents. 

Closed caption is your friend.

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, khyber said:

Closed caption is your friend.

Not mine! 😁

[iMonrey]

I found this mostly hard to follow and the ending was confusing. Were we supposed to understand that Sandy (the minister) was Erin's real father? They showed Max looking at a photo of a young girl and that was about it, I don't get it. Also, I assume we're meant to think that Roy was about to me murdered at the end there by Max's old cell mate. 

Max escaped whatever fate awaited him, but I'm not even sure what that was supposed to be. Assuming it was something legal, doesn't the US have an extradition treaty with the UK? 

The whole season just wasn't nearly as good as the first one. The plot was too dense and too murky to really grasp. 

[proserpina65]

On 9/18/2022 at 1:58 PM, iMonrey said:

Max escaped whatever fate awaited him, but I'm not even sure what that was supposed to be. Assuming it was something legal, doesn't the US have an extradition treaty with the UK? 

I assumed they were going to have him killed but that could be entirely wrong.  I was so confused by most of the plot by that time.  But yeah, I gathered that Erin's mother was having an affair with the now priest and that he was her father.  And it seemed obvious that Max's old cell mate was going to kill Roy, probably by throwing him from the balcony to make it look like an accident or suicide.  But then again, who knows?

I feel like season two was a real comedown from the first season, which had twists but they seemed more organic and less random.  Kenny was pretty much the only good thing about most of this one, except for Jake showing up for the last episode.  Apparently there is a season 3 - it better have a lot more Jamie Sives.

[chitowngirl]

Final season begins April 28!