S04.E06: Put Your Hands Where My Eyes Could See

[jewel21]

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The crew hits the streets of Los Angeles to fight for racial justice and equality. Nomi confronts her White Fragility, while Ana and Javi reach a boiling point in their relationship.

Airdate: 08/12/2021

[UnoAgain]

Put avocado on racism... Smh... Strange fruit to this day chills my spine anytime I hear it.. On an intellectual level I get what javi said.. And our Leo's prob don't hear thank you's  enough... But that seemed ill-timed.... Never say those people... Granted looting is bullshit tho so it's a solid question.. And yeah being called a racist would get me inflamed... If Zoey had said what she said minus the racist thinking part.. Maybe nomi wouldn't have gotten so upset... Lol at Aaron walking away from Doug and luca

[ljenkins782]

I feel like if Skye were still around, it would have been her and Jazz in those scenes with Nomi and possibly including Zoey on Nomi's side of the convo. Zoey's life experiences in Sherman Oaks were very different from the twins' experiences in Compton and while all 3 are black, I can see Zoey's upbringing sheltering her to an extent.

Also, she's always been so self-absorbed and shallow and apolitical that it was weird to see her suddenly schooling other people. I know they're playing it like Aaron's influence rubbing off, but from a behind the scenes perspective, it seemed more to me like they had a certain amount of exposition to give each character and not enough people to go around.

[dungeonwriter]

I predicted Javi would walk and I'm glad he did. He can't take the drama, and he shouldn't have to. 

The episode wasn't as powerful as last week, and "defiling the temple of our friendship" was sickening to me. Kiki is a grown woman, she can decide for herself who she wants to sleep with. If I had a brother or sister close to my age, who fell in love with one of my friends, I'd be happy. I might worry a breakup would make things messy, but seriously, Luca is really misogynist  for a "woke" person.

 

[Racj82]

18 hours ago, dungeonwriter said:

I predicted Javi would walk and I'm glad he did. He can't take the drama, and he shouldn't have to. 

The episode wasn't as powerful as last week, and "defiling the temple of our friendship" was sickening to me. Kiki is a grown woman, she can decide for herself who she wants to sleep with. If I had a brother or sister close to my age, who fell in love with one of my friends, I'd be happy. I might worry a breakup would make things messy, but seriously, Luca is really misogynist  for a "woke" person.

 

I know a lot of women never seem to understand but for a lot of guys, there is need to protect the women in your family that sometimes manifest into over protection. 

On top of that, we know exactly how a lot of guys think and talk. There will be a desire to shield your sister, your daughter, your mom from that.

Even further on top of that, Luca knows tons of dirt on Doug. Meaning that talk about things like hook ups. You saw it last week. Once you know that, you will be far less likely to want that dude with your sister. Even you know overall, he's a good dude.

It's all silly from the outside looking in. But, most humans are walking contradictions. 

A lot of people are woke or self enlightened but there is always limits.

Also, yes Kiki can decide for herself. I'm talking about why Luca wouldn't want it. But, that's as far as it goes. They are all adults. 

Looting is the most stupid bullshit ever. There is zero argument for it. Destroying your own community because you want change is just dumb. Going into a mostly white neighborhood and doing it wouldn't be any better. You don't know if the people in those homes or businesses support your cause. That is not how you garner change. Just more hate.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Racj82

[UnoAgain]

2 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I know a lot of women never seem to understand but for a lot of guys, there is need to protect the women in your family that sometimes manifest into over protection. 

On top of that, we know exactly how a lot of guys think and talk. There will be a desire to shield your sister, your daughter, your mom from that.

Even further on top of that, Luca knows tons of dirt on Doug. Meaning that talk about things like hook ups. You saw it last week. Once you know that, you will be far less likely to want that dude with your sister. Even you know overall, he's a good dude.

It's all silly from the outside looking in. But, most humans are walking contradictions. 

A lot of people are woke or self enlightened but there is always limits.

Also, yes Kiki can decide for herself. I'm talking about why Luca wouldn't want it. But, that's as far as it goes. They are all adults. 

Looting is the most stupid bullshit ever. There is zero argument for it. Destroying your own community because you want change is just dumb. Going into a mostly white neighborhood and doing it wouldn't be any better. You don't know if the people in those homes or businesses support your cause. That is not how you garner change. Just more hate.

Agreed.. I get luca's sentiment... I have both an older and younger sister and while I love my friends.. I also know my friends... Now they aren't the most outrageous or dirty dogs and some like me rarely ever speak about the sheets.. But still.. I know their baggage and it would be weird if either of my sisters got close with em... I'm not saying I'd do some major.. I forbid it... Cuz.. I technically can't.. But I'd feel a way and odds are I'd let it be known it was weird... But folks are adults so if they decided to mess around anyway.. Nothing I could do

[ljenkins782]

2 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I know a lot of women never seem to understand but for a lot of guys, there is need to protect the women in your family that sometimes manifest into over protection. 

On top of that, we know exactly how a lot of guys think and talk. There will be a desire to shield your sister, your daughter, your mom from that.

Even further on top of that, Luca knows tons of dirt on Doug. Meaning that talk about things like hook ups. You saw it last week. Once you know that, you will be far less likely to want that dude with your sister. Even you know overall, he's a good dude.

It's all silly from the outside looking in. But, most humans are walking contradictions. 

A lot of people are woke or self enlightened but there is always limits.

Also, yes Kiki can decide for herself. I'm talking about why Luca wouldn't want it. But, that's as far as it goes. They are all adults. 

I'm really not clear on how this would be improved by your sister, daughter, mother dating a complete stranger, who presumably does all the same stuff but who you DON'T know is a good guy overall.

Also, it's just so patronizing overall. Kiki is presumably enjoying her relationship with Doug, but now it's up to Luca and Doug to hammer out a deal wherein she can or can't continue to see Doug, because of how it makes Luca feel? Nah, those two can fuck off with that.

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The episode wasn't as powerful as last week, and "defiling the temple of our friendship" was sickening to me. Kiki is a grown woman, she can decide for herself who she wants to sleep with. If I had a brother or sister close to my age, who fell in love with one of my friends, I'd be happy. I might worry a breakup would make things messy, but seriously, Luca is really misogynist  for a "woke" person.

Yes, the breakup potential is the sticky part, but when it works out, it's a great thing. I know 2 brothers from my college days who married their college girlfriends (also from our friend group) while one of our other friends ended up meeting one of the girls' sisters at the wedding and they also got married. Every time I see pics of their Thanksgivings and other holidays, it basically looks like a house party from back in the day. Who wouldn't want their in-laws to be people you're already friends with? 

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Looting is the most stupid bullshit ever. There is zero argument for it. Destroying your own community because you want change is just dumb. Going into a mostly white neighborhood and doing it wouldn't be any better. You don't know if the people in those homes or businesses support your cause. That is not how you garner change. Just more hate.

No one has ever said that looting was a way to effect change. Looting is what happens when a situation boils over and all control is lost. In this case, it's people who've been ignored for years and years. Who get slammed for things like "taking a knee", for marching, for boycotting, etc. Always being told basically "maybe you have a point, but we don't like the way you're expressing it" or always acting like it's either too soon OR too late to raise a complaint about their treatment. And then mixed in is a lot of opportunists who don't actually have a gripe, but see people taking stuff and join in. But never has anyone pretended that the looting was a driver of change.

[gesundheit]

On 8/13/2021 at 3:52 PM, ljenkins782 said:

I feel like if Skye were still around, it would have been her and Jazz in those scenes with Nomi and possibly including Zoey on Nomi's side of the convo. Zoey's life experiences in Sherman Oaks were very different from the twins' experiences in Compton and while all 3 are black, I can see Zoey's upbringing sheltering her to an extent.

Also, she's always been so self-absorbed and shallow and apolitical that it was weird to see her suddenly schooling other people. I know they're playing it like Aaron's influence rubbing off, but from a behind the scenes perspective, it seemed more to me like they had a certain amount of exposition to give each character and not enough people to go around.

Agreed. And from a woman's perspective, it was a little gross to have the person driving the correct argument be a young woman whose entire set of talking points were parroted from her boyfriend. Just have Jazz be the primary there. It's not only not in Zoe's character, but also distasteful to have her just repeating lessons from her man, however true. 

I did like the little generational moment there where Nomi realized her mother was being behind on things with Nomi in the same way Nomi was being behind on things with Jazz & Zoey. That was a pretty good way to facilitate that transition quickly without seeming too contrived.

I was wondering how they'd manage their sole conservative character in this one. I felt like she'd be the one going hard about "the wrong way to protest." I wonder if it'll be the start of a larger shift for Ana, but I kind of doubt it, it was probably just a breakup device. The show is askew from a real-world timeline because they wanted to address multiple issues, but has the 2020 election happened yet on there?

[Racj82]

8 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

No one has ever said that looting was a way to effect change. Looting is what happens when a situation boils over and all control is lost. In this case, it's people who've been ignored for years and years. Who get slammed for things like "taking a knee", for marching, for boycotting, etc. Always being told basically "maybe you have a point, but we don't like the way you're expressing it" or always acting like it's either too soon OR too late to raise a complaint about their treatment. And then mixed in is a lot of opportunists who don't actually have a gripe, but see people taking stuff and join in. But never has anyone pretended that the looting was a driver of change.

So...it's still stupid. It's stupid no matter what the rational is. 

8 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

I'm really not clear on how this would be improved by your sister, daughter, mother dating a complete stranger, who presumably does all the same stuff but who you DON'T know is a good guy overall.

Everything is different once you know the person as opposed to not knowing the person. I'm sure you know this. Luca might be overprotective anyway but one of your best friends being that guy just hits different. He'll get over it just like most people do. I'm not saying it's okay. I'm just saying it happens. It's neither shocking to me or something that creates anger in me. It's Luca going forward that I'm watching. He's starts pulling an ultimatum or saying he forbids them from dating as if he has any say is where he loses me altogether instead of me just rolling my eyes at him.

[ljenkins782]

14 hours ago, Racj82 said:

So...it's still stupid. It's stupid no matter what the rational is. 

Hot take. Also, water's wet, grass is green...

My point was in response to your post, indicating that the looting was part of the protest as a way to effect change. 

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Everything is different once you know the person as opposed to not knowing the person. I'm sure you know this. Luca might be overprotective anyway but one of your best friends being that guy just hits different. He'll get over it just like most people do. I'm not saying it's okay. I'm just saying it happens. It's neither shocking to me or something that creates anger in me. It's Luca going forward that I'm watching. He's starts pulling an ultimatum or saying he forbids them from dating as if he has any say is where he loses me altogether instead of me just rolling my eyes at him.

To borrow a phrase, it's still stupid no matter what the rationale is. 

It's the idea that women need this type of "protection" from the men in their lives that's outdated and tired. If Luca was dating one of Kiki's friends, would she be losing sleep over Luca's virtue? No, and NOT because "it's different for guys." 

The inclusion of this storyline in an episode where they're trying to educate people on ways of thinking that are outdated or offensive is tone deaf. For all other elements of this episode, they had a point/counterpoint thing where one character would say or do something questionable and another character pointing out the issue. But this one, just 2 dudes perpetuating the same old garbage and no one else speaking on the topic, so I guess they think this trope still holds up in 2021. 

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I was wondering how they'd manage their sole conservative character in this one. I felt like she'd be the one going hard about "the wrong way to protest." I wonder if it'll be the start of a larger shift for Ana, but I kind of doubt it, it was probably just a breakup device. The show is askew from a real-world timeline because they wanted to address multiple issues, but has the 2020 election happened yet on there?

I feel like the election is something they would cover, but it's awkward since they time-jumped to cover the pandemic without actually showing any of it. I think they probably will do something on it, I know the Black-ish episode after the 2016 episode was a big episode for them and covered a lot of ground. Maybe the Capitol riot will also make the show? 

[HappyBerry]

On 8/15/2021 at 12:47 PM, ljenkins782 said:

The inclusion of this storyline in an episode where they're trying to educate people on ways of thinking that are outdated or offensive is tone deaf.. For all other elements of this episode, they had a point/counterpoint thing where one character would say or do something questionable and another character pointing out the issue. But this one, just 2 dudes perpetuating the same old garbage and no one else speaking on the topic, so I guess they think this trope still holds up in 2021. 

After all the back and forth in the episode, I was hoping that was something that would come up. Presumably as Kiki finding out and pointing out the problems with it (which might be coming later if she wonders why Doug is suddenly more cold to her). 

I could understand it if Luca did a "I'm afraid of her getting hurt, so be careful" or even "remember, she's a freshman, you're a senior, make sure expectations are clear" type thing. Basically, protective, as most of us would be of someone we care about, but not the whole patriarchal  "defiling our friendship temple with the fondling of my kin" weirdness (which was weird and annoying, even from someone as weird and annoying as Luca).

 

I'm glad Ana and Javi are over, the whole thing was exhausting. Though, I have to say, I'm on her side. I was rolling my eyes over her and the whole watch thing, and she definitely needs to actually say what is bothering her rather than snooping and exploding. But, in the case of some of the issues she brought up, both the general dislike of what Javi did and the fact that a lot of their relationship is very centered around what Javi wants and approves of, I'm on her side.

Edited August 17, 2021 by HappyBerry