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S01.E04: Recentering

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It just occurred to me that Nicole is a good example of somebody who has cognitive empathy but not emotional empathy. Cognitive empathy because she can understand why someone is feeling the way they do but no emotional empathy in that she can't actually connect with the person about their problems, even while she gives a very detailed and accurate reason for how she thinks they feel. Narcissists can have this problem. They set it up perfectly.

Edited by BC4ME
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I think Rachel got sucked into the lifestyle that Shane was offering and kind of glossed over the gross parts of him that are now really showing. She is carrying a Goyard bag (the green one) which is over a grand and I am sure she didn't have the cash to buy that without him.

I still have no idea who is going to die.

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17 minutes ago, Arynm said:

I think Rachel got sucked into the lifestyle that Shane was offering and kind of glossed over the gross parts of him that are now really showing. She is carrying a Goyard bag (the green one) which is over a grand and I am sure she didn't have the cash to buy that without him.

All of her clothes and accessories look pretty upscale for a struggling journalist living in NYC, but she doesn't seem like someone who enjoys or appreciates fashion very much. Kitty probably took her shopping for an entire new wardrobe before the wedding, insisting that Rachel needed that in order to fit in with the family.

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On 8/3/2021 at 10:10 PM, AzureOwl said:

I would attribute that more to a miscommunication with the wardrobe department, because they seem to be doing everything in their power to obfuscate the fact that Sydney Sweeney's body is just as impressive as Alexandra Daddario's. 

At first I thought it was because she's supposed to be playing a high school aged character and they were trying not to sexualize her too much, but now I'm pretty sure Olivia and Paula are supposed to be college sophomores, so that's not it. 

You've seen "Euphoria", right? Haha, I don't think HBO would be against doing this- but maybe it's intentional to downplay Sweeney's attractiveness, to further the idea that deep down she feels insecure about her friend being prettier than her. 

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On 8/2/2021 at 6:47 PM, Cosmocrush said:

Of course I think that everyone that ever travels, goes out to eat or shop should have to spend some time working in the service industry.

 

THIS!!

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A certain disconnect in continuity at the end: Armond could barely hold the half-conscious Dillon up to undress him, but when Belinda and Shane open the door, Dillon is standing erect (snicker, snicker) without any trouble. 

Edited by MBayGal
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1 hour ago, MBayGal said:

A certain disconnect in continuity at the end: Armond could barely hold the half-conscious Dillon up to undress him, but when Belinda and Shane open the door, Dillon is stand erect (snicker, snicker) without any trouble. 

Ketamine wears off pretty quickly. You can go from being practically comatose to mostly functional in 30 minutes. So if that's mainly what he took it's not really a continuity problem since I think Shane and Belinda showed up a little while after Armond and Dillon started.

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I have no experience with or knowledge of K's effects, so just forget what I said.  But it was funny!

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On 8/2/2021 at 5:47 PM, Cosmocrush said:

I hope that's not correct; that most people would disrupt their honeymoon over and over just to stick it to someone in the service industry who didn't cause any real harm.  There was nothing wrong with the room, it had a better view, and besides Shane didn't pay for it.  I think it was probably just a booking error but Shane made such a big deal over it he couldn't enjoy the room they had.   I used to have a friend who spent so much time complaining about our theater seats she couldn't enjoy the show and like the White Lotus this was in a theater without bad seats.  Same deal. 

As far as the dinner cruise goes, Shane didn't pay for that either and really what was the cost?  Faking compassionate (or at least patience) for a couple hours?  Shane is an entitled dick who treats people he feels are beneath him like hell.

Of course I think that everyone that ever travels, goes out to eat or shop should have to spend some time working in the service industry.

 

I am a corporate travel agent,  I have had to deal with ridiculous demands from my clients.  The expectations are so unrealistic.  You can tell a lot about a person on how they treat you when you have no power to stand up for yourself. You really have to learn how to hide your feelings and not take it personally. 

Edited by jrzy
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On 8/2/2021 at 11:29 AM, dmc said:

my money is on hotel guy in the body bag.

Considering the opening scene of the series my bet would be on it being Shane's mother.

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Shane's demeanor in the beginning doesn't suggest to me that his mom died. He doesn't seem sad to me. He seems really angry and annoyed. But it's Shane, so he may react that way to his mom's death lol.

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38 minutes ago, DiabLOL said:

Shane did seem angry, like he lost at something big.

My theory, which hasn't changed from the first episode, is that Rachel realizes what a huge mistake she's made and decides to annul the marriage, hence Shane being alone and angry at the airport.

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That could be, but there is still a body in a coffin to be accounted for.  Maybe it is some random stranger and has nothing to do with the characters we know.  That would be funny, after all our speculating!

But I don't think you can annul a marriage just because you've realized your groom is an asshole. 

Edited by MBayGal
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2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

My theory, which hasn't changed from the first episode, is that Rachel realizes what a huge mistake she's made and decides to annul the marriage, hence Shane being alone and angry at the airport.

This is my big hope.

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22 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

But I don't think you can annul a marriage just because you've realized your groom is an asshole. 

If Shane lied about anything before the wedding, and she found out only after the wedding, couldn't she get an annulment based on "fraud or misrepresentation?" She could say that before the wedding they had agreed that she would continue working, and then Shane reneged on that agreement after the wedding.

Either way, whether it's annulment or divorce, I think Rachel is going to end the marriage before the honeymoon is over.

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6 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

If Shane lied about anything before the wedding, and she found out only after the wedding, couldn't she get an annulment based on "fraud or misrepresentation?" She could say that before the wedding they had agreed that she would continue working, and then Shane reneged on that agreement after the wedding.

Either way, whether it's annulment or divorce, I think Rachel is going to end the marriage before the honeymoon is over.

I don't think that's enough for an annulment. Grounds for an annulment are more fundamental than that - bigamy, incest, etc - things that render the marriage illegal or based on outright  fraud. Disagreements over careers do not rise to that level. There's a current list for California here: https://www.courts.ca.gov/1037.htm

 

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Okay, who’s handing out the bingo cards? I’m putting money on the body in the coffin being the BLM guy. Possibly after a wild night with Tanya.

I noticed today that the BLM guy is Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite.

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On 8/4/2021 at 3:00 PM, wendyg said:

Cornellians certainly don't think so! Cornell is definitely a little *different* from the other Ivies, though. For one thing, out of the eight colleges on the Ithaca campus, four are state-funed (Agriculture, Human Ecology, Industrial & Labor Relations, and the Veterinary school), and four are privately endowed (Arts & Sciences, Engineering, Hotel and Business Administration, Law, and Art, Architecture, and Planning). So what snobbery there is about Cornell is more directed at the state schools, certainly not at Arts & Sciences.  Really, though, it's just envy. Harvard students don't have the opportunity to learn tractor-driving and silage-shoveling, and they certainly don't get to take courses in artificial insemination, as my pre-vet roommate did.

It's always very interesting to me who went to Cornell - it's had some very quirky graduates, and I think that's partly because of having a much more varied population of students. And one other thing: Cornell gives no honorary degrees. Anyone who has a Cornell degree earned it the hard way. A lot of alumni are very proud of that.

The Cornell hotel school is actually also one of the state land grant schools and has lower tuition for NYS residents, as do the others mentioned. Clearly Armand is not a graduate!  

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On 8/5/2021 at 8:55 PM, Arynm said:

I think Rachel got sucked into the lifestyle that Shane was offering and kind of glossed over the gross parts of him that are now really showing. She is carrying a Goyard bag (the green one) which is over a grand and I am sure she didn't have the cash to buy that without him.

I still have no idea who is going to die.

Those bags really kill me. They’re like cheap vinyl tote bags. That large one is probably $1,500.  They’re doing a good job of planting symbolic objects through the show. 

Edited by GussieK
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On 8/2/2021 at 10:38 AM, meep.meep said:

 

The music is really starting to bug me on this.

Yes!  The music is too much.  I have to put the closed captioning on to actually hear the dialog.  Not only too loud but it is repetitive as well. 

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In any event, I thought Shane's Cornell hat was mostly to indicate that Olivia and Paula got it wrong when they guessed his education on the boat.

I have certainly always understood that Hotel and Business Administration is private.

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On 8/5/2021 at 7:55 PM, Arynm said:

I think Rachel got sucked into the lifestyle that Shane was offering and kind of glossed over the gross parts of him that are now really showing. She is carrying a Goyard bag (the green one) which is over a grand and I am sure she didn't have the cash to buy that without him.

I still have no idea who is going to die.

I think she was well aware he was garbage, but planned to use him and his family as a leg up in the competitive NY journalism arena with the idea they would increase access to important people to write puff pieces on (like Connie Britton's character). Now she's realizing they consider her a pure bred show poodle that they bought for a steal.  "Haha, my son married someone who used to *work*, isn't he saint? We're so down to earth, haha!"

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12 minutes ago, rozen said:

I think she was well aware he was garbage, but planned to use him and his family as a leg up in the competitive NY journalism arena with the idea they would increase access to important people to write puff pieces on (like Connie Britton's character). 

That would be an interesting twist, but she doesn't seem that shrewd or ambitious from what we've seen of her so far. I think she just met Shane at a point in her life when she was getting disillusioned with her life choices, so having a rich, handsome guy shower her with attention gave her a sense of validation that she'd been missing.

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Ketamine really does make you kind of zone out and let things happen to you. So if Armond's young employee had never tried it before or thought he was doing cocaine? Whoa. 

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I am rewatching this episode, and it just struck me…Molly Shannon’s character Kitty is identical to Vicki Gunvalson, from Real Housewives of Orange County. 💵💵
 

She’s the self centered, interfering rich bitch who loves her son, but intrudes like no other. 

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On 8/11/2021 at 8:50 PM, chocolatine said:

That would be an interesting twist, but she doesn't seem that shrewd or ambitious from what we've seen of her so far. I think she just met Shane at a point in her life when she was getting disillusioned with her life choices, so having a rich, handsome guy shower her with attention gave her a sense of validation that she'd been missing.

I agree.  I think Shane saw her, that she is gorgeous, and thought she would be the "perfect" wife, especially if he could convince her that she didn't need to work anymore, just "do lunch" and raise the kids.  Rachel was probably struggling a bit with her work and was suddenly swept off her feet by a relatively handsome rich guy who showered her with gifts, fancy dinners/parties, and was no doubt on his best behavior (plus being in a locale where everyone knew who he was, that he was rich, and give him whatever he wanted).  Now that they are isolated from friends/family, she's seeing more of who he is and realizing she made a huge mistake.  I bet she does leave him.

Paula may be a little bit of the same, I bet her parents are also relatively well off (considering her drug supply),but probably not as rich as Olivia's (and I still can't get over the one bedroom suite for 5 people - the writers had to have been trying to figure out a way to cause conflict between Olivia and Quinn sharing a room in order to get Quinn out to the beach - and that could only happen if there was just the one bedroom - if there were two, the girls would have the second bedroom and Quinn would have the sofa-bed - but its such a ridiculous set up for a clearly rich enough family who can afford $75,000 bracelets)

I have to laugh over all the "medical problems" Paula has, if they are fake.  The girls seem to treat each other mostly on equal status, though clearly Olivia has control issues.  Not sure why they go to Hawaii and then spend all their time around the pool.

Tanya is just such a caricature.  I really feel for Belinda, who's getting blindsided.

I knew the moment the guy said BLM, he meant Bureau of Land Management, but most people these days think it means Black Lives Matter.  Honestly, before Black Lives Matter, I had never heard of Bureau of Land Management.  Someone I know said they were going camping on BLM land and I seriously asked, Black Lives Matter owns land?  so yeah, now I know.  

Armond caused all his own problems.  Shane is an asshole, but Armond has surely dealt with similar assholes in his position.  People in customer service probably deal with assholes on a daily basis (one reason so many aren't going back to those jobs)

 

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My mother went to Cornell hotel school in the 50s- one of just four women! She was an undergrad with Ruth Bader Ginsburg and met her at a sorority party (mom decided not to pledge).

cornell is a competitive school. Yes it’s a “safety” Compared to some- but it’s got a strong reputation and has a wonderful egalitarian feel. It’s not in a city like Boston- Harvard grads never get over the fact that they are at Harvard in part because Boston has about 10 other schools so they bump up against other kids all the time. 

this is not true in Ithaca.

also, I would say university of Pennsylvania  is considered lower on the pecking order. (They switch places from time to time ).

 

 

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I mean this sincerely:  I praise all of you who can discuss this episode without referring to the graphic image at the end which is now burned into my optic nerves.  I admit to having some prudish tendencies, but I am fine with consenting adults doing whatever they please with each other.  So when the scene shows Belinda and Shane opening the door and their mouths drop open and eyes bulge in shock, I anticipated they were seeing Armand and the employee in a compromising situation.  I assumed it would be left up to the audience's imagination as to what the pair were doing.  I was so "clutching-my-pearls" surprised when it was actually shown on film.  I wasn't prepared to see that much detail.  They easily could have ended the scene at Belinda and Shane's reaction shot and nothing would have been lost in the telling of the story.

I know I'm older and not of this generation, but I actually feel bad for actors whom--in order to work--now seem required to participate in unnecessary, gratuitous, graphic nudity or soft porn that does nothing to add to the story or character development.  I would have felt that way if the scene were with a heterosexual pair. 

I thought there used to be practice and standards or something that limited what could be shown on television.  I guess that's fallen by the wayside. 

I can see that I'm in the minority here, and that's okay.  I don't watch a lot of television, and now I'm thinking I'll probably be watching less.  Or just watching older movies.

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I really don't think anyone regards Cornell as a safety school.

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On 8/24/2021 at 4:48 PM, LoveIsJoy said:

I mean this sincerely:  I praise all of you who can discuss this episode without referring to the graphic image at the end which is now burned into my optic nerves.  I admit to having some prudish tendencies, but I am fine with consenting adults doing whatever they please with each other.  So when the scene shows Belinda and Shane opening the door and their mouths drop open and eyes bulge in shock, I anticipated they were seeing Armand and the employee in a compromising situation.  I assumed it would be left up to the audience's imagination as to what the pair were doing.  I was so "clutching-my-pearls" surprised when it was actually shown on film.  I wasn't prepared to see that much detail.  They easily could have ended the scene at Belinda and Shane's reaction shot and nothing would have been lost in the telling of the story.

I know I'm older and not of this generation, but I actually feel bad for actors whom--in order to work--now seem required to participate in unnecessary, gratuitous, graphic nudity or soft porn that does nothing to add to the story or character development.  I would have felt that way if the scene were with a heterosexual pair. 

I thought there used to be practice and standards or something that limited what could be shown on television.  I guess that's fallen by the wayside. 

I can see that I'm in the minority here, and that's okay.  I don't watch a lot of television, and now I'm thinking I'll probably be watching less.  Or just watching older movies.

HBO shows have been graphic like that for a long time.

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On 8/24/2021 at 7:37 PM, wendyg said:

I really don't think anyone regards Cornell as a safety school.

I kind of did. People expecting to go to Yale etc do. However that doesn’t mean anyone considers it unworthy.

 

I did mean to say mom went to o school with Ruthie Bader.

 

a close friends mother went to summer camp with her!

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On 8/24/2021 at 7:37 PM, wendyg said:

I really don't think anyone regards Cornell as a safety school.

Our former President used to make fun of Cornell grads on The Apprentice. Something about them not being real Ivy Leaguers.

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